I can’t believe that the media is treating her w/kid gloves just because she’s a woman. I hear she’s whining that Katie Couric did no ask her enough issues based questions?!? Regulation issues, financial bailouts, Supreme Court rulings are not issues that the public should know where you stand?

It boggles my mind to hear women say that she “represents” and “understands” us well. I’m a suburban mom living in “folksy” Texas, no less,but that woman does not in any way represent me. Every time she winked and used her “folksy” talk, I cringed. Btw, I have neighbors just like her. Scary, yeh? I guess that’s why I might be considered anti-social on the block.

Frustratingly for me, Texas is true Red State and my vote will not count, but I will vote. But you all in toss up states need to go VOTE for Obama/Biden. The alternative is scary.

You mentioned the Kennedy line — that was a great soundbite for Dukakis, but Bush Sr. won anyway. Historically, I don’t think the VP debate/candidate has had that much influence on the outcome. This time it might. McCain is old and the thought of Palin in office is rather scary. On the other hand, Biden could really, really help Obama (like Chany helped GW?). I’m not sure people want that either. I actually found myself liking Biden in the debate better than Obama, too (I forget who mentioned that above),

Another reason Senators, especially long-term ones, have such a hard time becoming President is there’s a record of how they’ve voted!

“HOWEVER, when Biden told the story about his family, he did a great job changing the exchange and connecting with the emotional content as a concerned father. That in turn subverts Palin’s sell, and it enabled Biden to move the image back onto on his terms. Also his selling the story indirectly alluded to male resentment, which also connects with a large part of the conservative independent male audience. That was a good move.”–Bezella

What REALLY helped this point last night, was also Palin’s coldness immediately after. She didn’t comment on how he’s put his family first through out his career, and has been an unbelievably good father (something the Republican party acknowledges openly). Palin changed the topic and went back to how “awesome” she is.

Everytime I’ve seen John McCain make a comment about being a POW while Barack Obama is around, Obama thanks him for his service. Palin could have, and should have, done something similar. It wouldn’t have made her (a woman) look weak. It would have made her look human.

ahahhaa. Oh, for sureee. Half the guys I know that will be able to vote want to vote for McCain, just ” ‘cuz they’d do her.” oh, mccain. how you’ve inspired political interest in young men everywhere.

It’s not so much that. It’s all about soundbites. If Biden can come up with a great punchline (i.e. “you’re no Kennedy”), then yes you go for the kill. Palin was pretty well rehearsed and was able to mantain continuity with her image and not seem rattled by the situation. It was the same thing with Bush and Kerry. Kerry won every single debate by a wide margin. However, the polls didn’t reflect this because Bush was successful in getting more soundbites and not conceding political mindshare. That’s the great thing about Bush as a political strategy. You don’t so much conceded mistakes as you assume public responsibility for nothing. You just ignore your opponents and repeat the same message ad naseum.

Palin has been GREAT fish bait to draw the Democrats away from defeating McCain. The people who were going to vote for Obama anyway open fire on a person who’s clearly in way over her head, and also reinforce their own innate condescensions that “only stupid people voted for Bush anyway.” That belief sets up the Democrats for failure, because it creates both polling myopia and a false sense of belief in their coalition building (which is how Democrats win elections since they gave up the South to the Fundies.) The great thing about Obama was that he managed to mostly avoid this trap (even mostly successfully working with the race card) . . until Palin got nominated.

Biden did a good job appearing conciliatory to both Palin and McCain while firing away with the criticisms. Biden gives Obama the foreign policy credibility and experience that Obama will need in the next 4 years. Also, because Biden has run for the white house multiple times himself, he is too a well-worn hand in fighting Republican media mind share. And I’ve always thought Biden — who often talks with Charlie Rose — was a likable, straight shooter anyway. But it’s still a weird space because he, by virtue of being a senior member of the senate, can only have at best a neutral effect. That is, until the debate. At the debate, he was able to connect with the viewers and steal some of the “person you can relate” image from Palin. That was surprising.

“. From what I saw on that graph, women reacted more favorably to Biden, and guys to Palin in general. (Are we the more rational sex?! )

Yeah, that’s the thing. Palin was nominated for the guy vote, not the female vote. Women voters are mostly horrified with Palin, but neutral women also would react to sexism labored out by the Democrat party. Hence, the Democrat party can’t bite. You could send out Hillary Clinton to go after Palin, but that only preaches to the converted, and it ignores that Hillary was also controversial with the female independents anyway.

“It’s intriguing to see at times when Biden was talking in Senator mode, throwing in an abundance of facts and proofs, he lost those polled, the guys in particular stopped listening or reacting, but they generally gave Palin a warmer reception even when she’s just smiling and spurting out words with no real meat.”

That’s exactly why most senators and house reps struggle mightily with getting elected to the executive seat. They know all the details of policy better than governors and other officers would, and therefore it’s always assumed that their knowledge will favor them on the debate. Except, the debate is on TV and actually discussing issues in detail does not help you at all. At. All. Your proponents think you’re the greatest guy in the world for knowing so much. Your opponents think you’re the most boring guy in the world for talking so much. Moreover, it also means that they have more stuff on you to use against you later on. The people in the middle have no clue what they think of you, because they don’t really understand what you said. In President Politics, demonstrating lot of knowledge and actually seeming like an authority that people can trust have little to do with each other.

Interestingly though, my guy friends didnt find her charming at all with her smiles and winks. One of them said she came across as a country-fied Stepford wife. But we r not the middle American population she is targeting.

And on CNN, they have that continuous graph of polling how the undecided voters felt about the debate in real time at the bottom of the screen, splitting them into males and females. It’s intriguing to see at times when Biden was talking in Senator mode, throwing in an abundance of facts and proofs, he lost those polled, the guys in particular stopped listening or reacting, but they generally gave Palin a warmer reception even when she’s just smiling and spurting out words with no real meat. And a guy even said he thought Biden was off topic most of the time and didn’t answer the the questions when he was interviewed afterwards. From what I saw on that graph, women reacted more favorably to Biden, and guys to Palin in general. (Are we the more rational sex?! )

And after the debate, Fox was the only channel with a poll showing Palin won. All the other cable channels reported a Biden victory. I must say switching channels btn Fox and msnbc was very entertaining TV these days.

On a silly note, Biden and Len (the judge) on Dancing with the Stars have quite a resemblance.

All I was trying to point out was Biden COULD have gone harder since he’s more knowledgeable, but he held himself back purposely.