Comments on: Yoon Sae-yoon goes for an “Antique” wedding look

By: M.T

M.T — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 04:38:55 +0000

When He Said He Will Get Marrid I Didnt Pleive But

Iam Happy 4 Him Hes So Cool

Se Yun Fighting

& Gon

Your Fan MT

By: yvhsien

yvhsien — Fri, 15 May 2009 11:30:55 +0000

@Samsooki
As always, great points.

@Nom Kitteh
Valid points.

Even though English is taught in most countries in Asia, it is usually not their native language so when they try to speak and write sometimes, they make a mistake.

The wedding message is meant for family, friends etc. and it is clear what they were trying to say even though there were mistakes.

As Samsooki mentioned, Allen Iverson did not care about the Chinese character on his tatoo either. Some of the Chinese people may feel the same way some of the posts here feel about the English mistakes.

By: wonnie

wonnie — Fri, 15 May 2009 00:30:52 +0000

she looks like a ajumma..

By: Pat

Pat — Thu, 14 May 2009 22:45:50 +0000

I just thought of something – back in the days when Mac computers were simply known as “Apple computers” they had a slogan – “Think different”

http://computing.fnal.gov/software/MacOSX/Apple_logo_Think_Different.png

Would this be considered “engrish” and did it make sense?! =)

BTW I think the bride and the groom look really cute and happy – and so do the family and friends!

By: Pat

Pat — Thu, 14 May 2009 22:18:14 +0000

I don’t quite see this as a competition – just difference of opinions. =) The word “engrish” doesn’t sound completely perjorative to me because I agree with JB and others who said that it can be used as a term of endeerment – on the other hand I see why Samsooki replied to Eros’s and This Is Me Posting’s comments – because the tone of Eros’s and This Is Me Posting’s in referring to “engrish” was negative, even condescending (and yea – I understood EXACTLY what they meant by “We’ve got married” too!).
Maybe we should come up with a word for the way native English speakers who go to different countries and learn the new language speak that new language (with accents and all) – would that even the score?! =) Just a thought folks!

By: Kender

Kender — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:53:06 +0000

Lol, I agree with JB. “Engrish” always sounds cute to me. :3 It’s when you say things like “Konglish” or “Chinglish” or “Japanglish” that it starts to sound offensive to my ears. But others may not feel the same way. *shrugs*

These are adorable! You know the photographer had fun with these.. It must be nice to get the occasional quirky couple. I wonder how many “normal” couples do random stuff like this? ^^

By: Nom Kitteh

Nom Kitteh — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:46:01 +0000

Samsooki, I understand where you are coming from, and like the use of the “N” word, it is possible that “Engrish” (which is a pejorative term signaling and highlighting the “Engrish” speaker’s ‘outsider’ status and mocking it) is derogatory depending on who is using it. Maybe it can be used with affection, as Jbeans argues she uses it, by someone who obviously loves the culture. But it is still has all the demeaning connotations, like the word “Paki” (used against South Asians in England) has: it means that one has no legitimate claim to the English space and is trying to fit in and is failing. Considering also how often America is evoked in discussions here as a place that is better (e.g. America has better attitudes towards drugs, etc.), the word does convey imperial attitudes.

So, if i may be judge and jury;
Engrish – 0

Samsooki and Jbeans – 1 (for different reasons)

Immigrants and others who are shamed and mocked for their idiomatically wrong use of English and for their pronunciation but who still work hard and persevere and give their children the best possible chance in life – 10.

(I do think that if Korea wants to use English in a public sphere, it should at least invest in a good copy editor)

By: Samsooki

Samsooki — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:27:36 +0000

I can’t say that I agree with JB, but I know when I’ve lost. hehe.

Engrish 1, Samsooki 0.

By: javabeans

javabeans — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:24:09 +0000

For the record, I like the word engrish. It’s a gentle poke at a common occurrence — often spoken with affection! — not a malicious, institutional tear-down of the East by the West. It’s efficient as a descriptor and I’ll continue to use it when apt.

By: Samsooki

Samsooki — Thu, 14 May 2009 17:06:44 +0000

@22,

“it also specifically implies incorrect English used by foreign cultures”

No, actually, is specifically does NOT. The term itself is a pejorative that refers to the differences in linguistics that make it difficult for Asians to pronounce certain English words correctly. The fact that some people have lumped them together on a website with bad grammar use doesn’t create any further implication. The phrase you are looking for is not SPECIFICALLY IMPLIES but IS CURRENTLY LINKED TO.

The fact is, the term “engrish” has been used pejoratively for decades, and it was offensive when used in conjunction to describe Asian immigrants and their desperate struggle to communicate. Those Asian 2nd or 1.5 gens who are old enough, who have grown up in America, know how this term was used to describe how our parents talked, and it wasn’t because my parents (both with PhD’s garnered in American universities where they had to write their dissertations in English, or English and German) didn’t use grammar correctly, but because they couldn’t pronounce their F’s and P’s, and their L’s and their R’s.

“Your example of using Asian characters as tattoos is apt, but on the flip side, so is Eros’ criticism of Yoon Sae-yoon here.”

No, my point is that neither is warranted. Allen Iverson couldn’t give two whits whether his Chinese tatoos on his arms make 100% sense. The aesthetics and the meaning of his tatoos, TO HIM, are important. And in THIS country, where Allen lives, works, spends most of his time, nobody cares whether his tatoos are correct or just mostly correct or completely stupid.

Similarly, in Korea, for the happy couple, for their friends and their families, for their fans and for the country at large, nobody cares whether the grammar is incorrect, whether there are diction issues.

“The fact that they couldn’t take two seconds to look in an English dictionary or … makes them look foolish.”

Again, not to Allen Iverson or 99.999% of Allen Iverson fans, or to NBA fans, or to anyone in this country. And, not to anyone in Korea.

“The fact of the matter is “I Love You… We’ve Got Married” doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.”

Really? It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever? You cannot understand the intent behind “I love you, we’ve got married”? That’s the “fact” of the matter? Are you sure you are talking about facts now?

“It displays that they don’t care about the language at all other than to use it as decoration, or that they aren’t smart enough to open a book yet.”

It displays? Don’t you mean, “it shows”? Shall we go ahead and parse everything that you write for diction, and make sure that you are smart enough to open a book, to make sure that your words which are openly distributed online, have all the correct usages, diction and grammar?

Look, I’m not trying to tear you down. I agree with the general point – as I said above, a good copy editor could solve a lot of these issues. But, as to whether we should make anything of the fact that the English usage was a bit off, or whether we should be using pejorative terms like “engrish,” well, I have my opinions – noted above.