Wow, Samsooki and hjkomo join force to re-cap Chuno! I'm not fond of sageuk and so, will not follow this drama .... but it's great to know people are enjoying this one. Have fun :)

thanks a loto! Great recaps.
I can't wait to watch the episode with english sub. This drama makes me crazy!!!!

Even though I think the plot in some parts could be different and perhaps more interesting, I'm fully enjoying watching this drama. ^^

There's interesting characters besides the main ones too. Like the assassin Baekho (Danny Ahn), Hwang Chul-woong, Chun Ji-ho (Sung Dong-il is good in this role! xD), Eop Bok and the slave girl... (I think they're a cute pair.)

Thank you for recapping. ^^

QUOTE " SEOL HWA is amazing, she is cute" unquote,
we should not compare Un Nyun and Seol Hwa's character because they are of different breed, one is a slave girl working for a noble family and the other person is a dancer in a dance troupe and a prostitute. Now, SH is with the company of three very interesting slave hunters ( she is very experienced with men) she is willing to join them to escape from her job and we can see that she is also interested with dae gil. So her character will be boisterous with the three men.

Un Nyun from a slave girl, now adopted by a noble family and just married,
not street wise, I think she never walk alone but with bodyguards and now become a married woman, so her character is of a mystery woman, demure ladylike and never mixed around because of her background and her husband is from a noble family so her character will not be spunky but most probably her character will changed while running away with the male stranger.

Hej! I just watched eps 1 - 2, read the recaps and comments and I've got a few questions:

(esp. @Acalle, Samsooki etc. I guess)
What's wrong with Mister X' subtitles (or what's right)? Someone said (javabeans, actually, hur), they don't 100% say what's in the dialogue. What's up with that? I don't know Korean at all and will definitely continue watching the show with Mister X' subs, but y'all now got me really really curious. Could you maybe give some examples?
(This just out of pure linguistically inspired interest. As much as I hate translations, I know them to be a necessary evil and also extremely hard work on the part of the translator. As it is, I can scarcely believe our luck, today. I remember how we used to wait for months and years for a friend to send us a VHS tape with a few eps. I don't even want to know what it was like before the advent of personal video-recording. o_O)

@Samsooki, regarding slave-trade: Oversimplification, while often necessary, has the tendency to distort reality to the point of rendering it unrecognizable. o_ô What you write seems (correct me, if I am misunderstanding you) to set "US type slavery (of Africans)" as the norm. While it is of course true that during much of history wars (and far-flung slave-trading networks) were a main source of slaves and thus slaves were not necessarily of the same ethnicity as their "owners", Korea is hardly the "odd one out". Other societies are known for turning part of their population into slaves (e.g. neighboring Japan; Indian lower caste people; Greeks were also happily enslaving each other etc. etc.). Also, just because a slave might hail from another nation (in the Roman sense, i.e. "people", little state, or clan) he might not be of a recognizably different ethinicity. Consider for instance when Caesar enslaved the Helvetians - what this really says is that a guy from Italy enslaved a bunch of guys (and gals) from Switzerland. I guess, you know what I'm getting at. ^_^;

@Fight-Choreo-Discussion: *hm* I have to agree with those who weren't 100% satisfied with Chuno's choreography (flow, or whatever). I've seen a lot better - also Korean stuff (The Duelist for instance reduced me to a tiny puddle of delight *sigh*). But honestly: It's a TV show. Go curb yer Dickens! ^_^; (*uhm* great expectations, that is. sry)

@Nixazure (and anyone who might know):
I'm pretty interested in how what I know about the situation in Japan at that time (where Geisha were kind of luxury prostitutes and "tea-shop-girls" while theoretically not necessarily prostitutes would usually sell their "services" to any odd man and were generally of a lower status) to what you just described. How well-regarded are Gi-Saengs (the ones shown together with the noblemen look quite *er* doing all-right, to me), how free are "hotel-owners" (in their choice of men and everything else)?

@Samsooki: FF7 as K-Drama? Shikamo, with LJK?!!! o_ô As much as I loved LJK in Iljimae (yes, I liked Iljimae, so sue me :P) ... argl (but then again, I'm not much into "cute boys") ^-^; But yeah, why the hell not. And FFX definitely deserves the Bollywood treatment. They've already got two musical cut-scenes as is. ^^; FF6 of course goes to Tarantino. Seriously, he's gotta reinstate Kefka as villain number one, because the way it's now (Landa completely owns Kefka) is just not right. *erm* I think this comment might warrant an [OT]. ;)

Right now, I don't know what'll kill me first: Waiting for ep.3 subs or waiting for the ep.5 raw. ^-^;

@Fight-Choreo-Discussion:

Like ockoala said I also think Chuno's fighting choreography is very good for a k-drama. I also admire more poetic / The Duelist -style of fighting but I don't think that kind of fighting style would even fit to Chuno.

In Chuno, I also like the slow motions and camera angles they're using during the fighting scenes.

thank you samsooki & hjkomo for recaping chuno!!!! ^^

@56 Soobi:
*hm* Righto. This less artsy-fartsy, down-to-earth style kind of fits the show. I agreez. :)

@57 Samsooki (and of course, anybody else who's interested):

1. Translations, esp. Mister X's translations:
It is much less a matter of whom to trust or to criticize, but rather simple-minded curiousity (on my part, that is) - which is why I was asking for examples.
Regarding translation-work, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Translating is agonizing not only because it is difficult, but because it is absolutely impossible to get it 100% the way you want it even if you are the most conscientious, assidious, diligent person out there. It is like trying to copy a watercolor - with colored pencils. This is also why the only thing I hate more than translations is translating myself. *blech* And as for period-drama - gosh, I so know what you mean. I've translated the odd Fujisawa Shuhei (for uni, certainly not voluntarily) and all these titles, names, units of measurement and what not pretty much killed me. T-T
This btw. is precisely why I think (good) translators deserve our utmost respect. All the more so, if they do it for free. Even the ones, that are rather crappy. I appreciate the work (and loving charity, really) of Koreans, Japanese or Chinese who might not be very good at English, but still try their best to give their internet-"friends" a "leg-up" in understanding what's going on. :)

Of course, even among "good" translations, there are a zillion different styles which all have their merits and demerits. "Freestyle" translations are sometimes closer to the original meaning of the text. Especially with subtitling (and commercial publications such as novels) a free, "interpreter" type translation (vs. scientific, true-to-the-word plus explanations) seems to be most popular. It's also more work and needs an extremely good command of both languages, I'd say. Judging from your comments and JB's, Mister X's translations seem to fit this discription, which makes me think he/she/it is probably a professional translator (or possibly some prof. em. or somebody from a Korean studies dep.)? I guess, if Mister X's translations were bad, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Be that as it may: I'm stil curious for more details. :P

Judging from your overall (defensory and possibly angry?) tone, I guess, some derisive remarks were made elsewhere regarding Mister X's translations? Who's the *%$&§ who bashes fansubbers? Let's all gang up on them and giv'em some hell. ;)

As for the Chinese dictionary you need for understanding Sa-Geuks: A tiny little part of me wishes the Koreans never gave up on Hanja (, the part of me that isn't thrilled with having yet another writing system to obsess over, and an extremely interesting one at that). It makes everything so much simpler, really. Take Sa-Geuk. No idea what that means. Give me the Hanja and it's going to be an instant epiphany. Satori made easy. ^o^

2. Slavery
:) Add this paragraph to your original essay and I'm happy. (Seriously, read your original statement. You sound like a demagogue, ne. ;) Of course, it's important to have made this statement the way you did for people who might wonder why Korean slaves aren't "black" or whatever, so I think I know what you were getting at.) Anyhow, this is getting interesting. :)

Literature: thx for the book tip, looks good. After almost suffering a stroke checking up the book on Amazon ($150 *argl*), I found and preordered it at my university library. *hm* I hope, whoever's got it now doesn't really need it (for an essay or something). ^_^; You seem to be into the topic a bit. What do you think of Slavery and Social Death: A Comparative Study by one Patterson (some site recommended it)? Also, Totman's Pre-Industrial Korea and Japan in Environmental Perspective seems to touch upon slavery in both countries in a comparative light. *hm* Didn't know Totman wrote about Korea as well. *ho~*
I've also come across this paper http://kennedy.byu.edu/papers/Peterson.pdf (sounds a bit like you, actually :P). Interesting also because of the author's remarks regarding the uniqueness of slavery in Korea. Since the book you quoted is more than ten years old, it would be interesting if there were any reactions (maybe even short essays or papers?) regarding this point. D'you know anything further?
btw. I was going to get into the whole class and minorities thingy (in Japan, that is), anyhow, so this actually helps me. thx a bunch :)

Uniqueness: While I have absolutely no knowledge of slavery in Korea (actually, make that "knowledge of Korea" period; I've read Everlasting Flower by Pratt and once looked up something in the Sources of Korean Traditions; that's pretty much it), hearing somebody claim something to be unique (especially when used with modifiers such as "almost" or "most") usually gives me headaches. Comes from dealing, on a daily basis, with a people (i.e. Japanese) who claim their nation to be (_the_ most!) unique (ichiban yuiitsu) because it has four seasons (and rainbows there have 7 colors -_-). Usually, when somebody makes that claim it just hides the fact that either that person has not taken the time to "take a look around" or is "guilty" of demagogy (i.e. willful oversimplification). Hence, my reaction.

Now, as for our examples: I think, we're having a problem of definition. Question:
1. Is there only one Korean "ethnos" (tribe)? Were some of the slaves maybe from other Korean nations (Silla, Paekche, whatever)?! cf. the Peterson paper quoted above (this is not a rhetoric question!) I think we're mixing up ethnos, nation-state, race (whatever that is) etc. :/
2. What is a slave? No, seriously. By "Japanese slaves" I basically meant Burakumin "outcasts". Considering the former practice of cutting off fingers and continuing discrimination against them, I seriously doubt the "fluidity of class-movement". (On the other hand, my sole source of information is Neary's Burakumin essay in Japan's Minorities, ed. Weiner, so let's compare our sources of info!) Quite apart from that, at least judging from those sa-geuks, class movement seems to have been at least possible, somehow?
You say Japanese did not exactly differentiate btw indentured servitude and slavery. What then, is the difference? Slaves, after all, are not necessarily slaves for life (e.g. freeing slaves seems to have been quite common in the Roman Empire and since freed slaves automatically became Roman citizens, slavery was actually even a short-cut to citizenship, wasn't it?). What about serfdom during the middle ages (which invariably developed out of the Roman system; the end of the empire seeing many peasants losing their freedom out of poverty)? Of course, US American slavery eventually turned into something (pretty much exclusively) racisticially motivated. *hm*

India, now, really is a stupid example, you're right. ^^; Not so much, I'd say though, because of the many ethnicities (many, but not more than what you'd have in the old Mediterranean or basically any other region of that size), but because research in that area is still so tainted by racism (esp. people trying to prove that lower caste people were indigenous people, while upper caste people were "aryans" in a racist sense), nationalism and what not. But yeah, India no goody. ^^;

Greece: hu? I think, you're talking about something else here. Wasn't the idea behind your argument that Korean slaves looked like free Koreans and that's why slave hunter was actually a profession (and not something anybody with eyes in their head could do)? If you can tell a Greek from an Italian from a Spaniard from a German from a Slav from a Persian from a North African _all of the time_ - well, kudos to you, my friend. I can't.
Of course, in a way this whole point is rendered moot by the question I was trying to raise in 1. - When the Greek enslaved each other (which was of course, often the case) they didn't necessarily enslave people from the same "ethnos" (tribe), ne.

Wow, this is a pretty difficult topic, actually. *hm* I think I'm more confused now than I was in the beginning, but hey, that's what always happens when you're onto something. You suddenly start realizing: Gosh, I don't know anything and trying to make sense of it all just sets your head spinning. lol. Well, at least in a few weeks, I'll have something to read on the subject. ^^;

Nee, Samsooki: am I keeping you from recapping? ^_^;

@ simon

Your description of “Freestyle” translations - yeah, that is closer to how I would describe Mister X's translating style. While it's not always word-for-word literal, he gets the meaning and intent of the dialogue across. Some people like it, and some don't. But what cannot be refuted is his excellent grasp of both the English and Korean languages. The Korean language used in sageuks is not the same as the language in, say, a modern rom-com...so why should anyone expect the same wording style in English as one would find in something like American Pie or She's All That? And like what Samsooki said, there very few translators in the world that can do both both languages with such lyrical prose. ;)

Thanks for the information on the three "gi-sangs" samsooki! hahaha
I looked her up and she was in H.I.T. which I saw because of Go Hyung Jung, but hmmm I can't recall who she played in it. hahaha

Thanks!!!!

@Samsooki
“First off, sageuks are difficult enough to understand, given the old Korean language and vocabulary, let alone the fact that it generally helps a LOT to have at least a basic knowledge of Korean history”

I’m sorry to say this, but you are wrong about having to have basic knowledge of Korean history to understand a sageuk. In fact to understand any drama about any country, there is no “real” need to have basic knowledge of their history. And I can prove you why.
I have been watching dramas ever since I can remember; Cubans, Japanese, Brazilians, Mexicans, Venezuelans, Colombians, Koreans, and again Japanese (still looking for that long lost gem) out of all those country only two have been able to leave an impression in my heart; now a piece of memory that go together with all the rest that form my past. Those two countries were Brazil and Japan. And they did it with nothing but a historical drama.
Now, for me, to understand a historical Brazilian drama is not a problem, since most of them if not all of them have to do with slavery (and this were Africans lol) which is also a part of my culture (I’m Cuban) but I bet that if any Asian were to watch “La Esclava Isaura” (the name of the drama in Spanish, as it is how I remember it) they will understand it perfectly fine, because that is what a GOOD historical drama does for you. In fact, that is what a good drama does for you, period. Even more than “La Esclava Isaura” the Japanese drama “Oshin” left me heartbroken and wanting to be Japanese (and that feeling has never left me, although I am content with my nationality and feel proud of it.) At 9pm sharp, every household in Cuba was watching “Oshin” and im not only talking about women since these are the majority of drama viewers, but also men. The father, the mother, grandfather, grandmother, aunt, uncle, brother… etc. Every body was glued to the TV at 9pm, and I’m pretty sure everybody felt the same way I did.
If you ask any Cuban from my generation (1982) back about “Oshin,” they will know what you are asking and tell you all about it.
“Oshin” is a drama about a woman named Oshin who overcame every obstacle in her life, from when she was a poor little girl to when she turned into a successful old woman. Now, I understand that 1907 (the year its centered) is not compared to the year Chuno its centered in terms of historical complexity. But for me, any drama centered past the year I was born is a historical drama, metaphorically speaking. And 1907 in Japan, society was still pretty much “medieval” compared to Western society (not using and offensive tone here.)
My point is that, we understood Oshin not because Japanese culture is very popular or any other excuse you could find –in fact, Japanese culture started becoming popular a little later than in the early 80’s. Oshin contributed to its popularity- but for the simple fact that it was a good drama, well made. When a drama or a movie, show, whatever, is well made… there is nothing you won’t understand. If by saying that you, as a Korean don’t handle the language very well, and that you can not understand the old dialect, then I agree. Yes, that is very difficult. I’m sure it would be pretty hard for any of us to understand the old dialect of our language. But, you do not need basic history. I have watched about 3 to 4 sageuks so far, and I understand perfectly well the history. I understand what they are delivering, its up to the writers and directors, actors, and the whole crew behind the project, to make it easy for you.
I have not seen Chuno yet, because I will take your advice and wait until all the heat has subsided, for better translations. But I sure can’t wait to see Jang Hyuk, he is amazing.

tl;dr

haha kiddddddding! thanks chunojjushi (city hall what?) :)

@hjkomo: I guess, I'll have to thank MisterX's skills then, for never once noticing anything "strange" about the translation - i.e. the lingo is right in keeping with (my ideas of) period drama parlance. neat :)
Oh, and thx for the quick recaps/mini-translations on soompi. I've been following them with great enthusiasm. :)

@Samsooki: Well, longest comment I ever wrote, sry bout that. ^^;
1. My point was that you were being defensive at all while (at least in answer to my question) there was absolutely no call for it. o_ô But I guess emotions are riding high, if your hard work as a fansubber is getting bashed (or you get trolled by people who demand their fansubs asap) on a daily basis. :/
You see, you might be a fan of historic details - I'm a linguistics-freak. Hence the question. ^^;

2. I see. Sorry, I misunderstood you. You brought up a topic and then followed up with details and literature - where I'm from that spells out: "Let's talk about it." But (and I would like to use the word "alas" here, but that would be strangely out of place in a modern-day blog, I guess ^^; ), what is to one person is fun, to another is a bother. (And no, this is not me trying my hand at poetry, just as surely as I wasn't going for "academic".) So, maybe you're not that into it, after all, or you've already discussed the subject a zillion time or you are just busy researching details - and with that said, I leave you in peace. *shrug*

@Laura: You are confusing understanding and emotional envolvement. It is easy to get involved, to keenly _feel_ the characters' plight, if the drama is well written. Trully understanding something, though, is a different matter. If you don't have the background knowledge you will simply miss out on a lot of what is going on. Of course, this goes for pretty much anything, not only historic drama!

@Laura:

Maybe the REASON you don't think you're missing anything by not knowing the basic history is that you ARE missing it. After all, you can't know that something has gone over your head if you don't understand what could have gone over your head.
Maybe you were just trying to justify that you can enjoy a saeguk even without knowing the history (which is great), but the way you said it comes across as a bit arrogant and braggy, as if saying, "Maybe YOU can't do it, but I can!"
Just wanted to let you know.

Yes its true I come across as arrogant and “braggy”… sorry for that, it’s not my intention. But YOU clearly have that intention when YOU addressed my comment. Lmao I love the way YOU capitalized all the words that YOU probably wanted to slap me with right????

Maybe I am missing something… ha, Of course I’m missing a lot of things, Im not Korean and don’t know the History. But, say for instance, when I watched “The King and I” I understood what the eunuch were, and what it represented to be castrated for them and the King, why??? BECAUSE THEY EXPLAINED IT……. That’s all. I didn’t know that eunuch existed and that they were castrated men, but I learned that and understood it.

Im sorry SAMSOOKI if I was arrogant, I like your recaps, and I have nothing against you. I was just giving my comment, and my views. That’s all, I don’t get why people get so defensive, Im not insulting anybody or any culture here, please get life.

OH and if you want to really say Im arrogant, here is being arrogant for you: BRAGGY is not really a word sweetie. HOW ABOUT THAT FOR BEING ARROGANT?

Some of you are in DESPERATE need to re-learn how to write in English properly. Ugh. And, oy, Cuban girl, please stop embarrasing yourself and go take your underdeveloped arrogance somewhere else in the name of Fidel Castro's saggy ass, thanks sweetie :)

P.S. Simon needs stop jerking off half-heartedly at something he doesn't even know that well to begin with. Major PFFFFFFFT alert much?

underdeveloped arrogance.... lmao hahahahahahahahahaha. WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE HATE SO MUCH!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA. JUST BECAUSE IM CUBAN YOU BRING UP FIDEL CASTRO??? HAHAHA YOU NEED TO LEARN A FEW THINGS BEFORE YOU START EMBARRASING YOURSELF.

@ SAMSOOKI

Like I said before Im sorry if I came out arrogant and offending with my first comment. I was just trying to give my opinion, I can be up-tight sometimes, and thats not good. But I can't keep my opinions to myself when I feel very strongly about them. I never said that to get insulting comments, but once I did I cant stay quite and let somebody else insult me just because my opinion was different.
Looking at it from another perspective, I don’t think you are completely wrong. You know, when we read things we don’t always see it in the same light, and our frame of mind might be different at that moment and that’s all it takes.
Again, Im sorry for causing trouble, I don’t mean to do that. I love Korean dramas, and I find this website very helpful because it really helps you analyzed better. Its always good to hear/read others opinions about dramas, which is why I come here.

u all r stupid fanboy, blabbing nonsense , typical nerdy geek looser

I really love the drama the actors their action. I may opinion the best actor is song tae-ha I love him de gil- is the best general chio is nice and sweet Wangso is a womanizer. but why didn't u guys recap the drama from episode 16 to the end or final please I'll wait the replay okay

I really love the drama the actors their action. I may opinion the best actor is song tae-ha I love him de gil- is the best general chio is nice and sweet Wangso is a womanizer but happy . but why didn't u guys recap the drama from episode 16 to the end or final please I'll wait the replay okay

I really love the drama the actors their action. I may opinion the best actor is song tae-ha I love him de gil- is the best general chio is nice and sweet Wangso is a womanizer but happy . why didn't u guys recap the drama from episode 16 to the end or final please I'll wait the replay okay