Drama Recaps
Secret Garden: Episode 13
by | December 26, 2010 | 562 Comments

Some really nice moments in this episode, and some long-awaited movement on Ra-im’s part (finally!), help mitigate some other bits that I hated. Or rather, one bit in particular. (I really wanted not to hate it, but it’s one of those things that you just can’t bring yourself to accept, y’know?)

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EPISODE 13 RECAP

My absolute favorite part of Joo-won staring down at a sleeping Ra-im is how, when she frowns, he frowns too. Despite his emotional stuntedness and his absolutely inappropriate ways of treating people’s feelings, he’s in tune with her feelings and dislikes seeing her experiencing a nightmare. (Too bad he can’t make the mental connection and see that HE’S the cause of some of her waking nightmares, so to speak, with his harassment.)

When she awakens, they stare at each other and have a silent conversation (their thoughts are to themselves, but form a dialogue) which ends with Ra-im mentally telling Joo-won to come by in her dreams again. And then Joo-won utterly ruins the connection by whispering, “Uh, there’s an empty room next door…”

Ra-im grimaces — men! — and shoves her pillow in his face, but both immediately duck down and feign sleep when Jong-soo enters the room. Seeing Joo-won cuddled up to Ra-im, he drags him away, then settles down on the ground to claim the spot next to her.

Not about to be outdone, Joo-won pretends to sleep-wriggle his way back up, wedging himself between the two. He allows himself a gloating smile and snuggles against Ra-im’s back. One point, Joo-won.

In the morning, Ra-im and Jong-soo head out for a hike together, ignoring Joo-won’s pestering questions. He manages to catch up to them on the trail, though he gasps along and asks them to slow down. Instead, Ra-im suggests upping their speed, and Jong-soo happily obliges. One point, Jong-soo.

At the summit, Ra-im declares that winter is her favorite season because the cold forces you to keep walking to keep from freezing to death, warming the body. Well, that’s optimistic in a morbid sort of way.

On their way down, they find Joo-won huddled in the cold, notably opting for the exact opposite of Ra-im’s hypothetical scenario. He sits and waits rather than moving, his body cooling instead of heating.

Grimacing in pain, he makes a big deal about twisting his ankle, and hobbles along with the aid of the other two. They’re particularly annoyed with the way he leans all over Ra-im, using this as an excuse to slip an arm around her and pat her hair.

Finally Jong-soo has enough and declares that it’ll be faster to just carry Joo-won on piggyback… and miraculously, Joo-won declares his ankle healed. Hur.

Disgusted with his cheap trick, Ra-im delivers a swift kick to the shin. Joo-won protests that he really was hurt, clutching his kicked leg while hopping on his good one… then loses his balance and goes toppling down the slope.

Oska calls Seul’s social-climbing friend to ask her about things he should have frankly asked years ago. I suppose he was afraid to face the possibility that he’d been an ass, as he admitted to Ra-im, and now the friend confirms as much. Seul didn’t actually study abroad with that douchebag, as he’d believed, and had even attempted suicide. The friend advises Oska to hear the rest from Seul, since it’s not really her place to divulge all this. Yes, so discreet of her to share everything but one last detail.

Oska grows teary-eyed as she reminds him that Seul doesn’t have a lot of friends because he’d been her everything. She was always there when he needed her, but he was never there for her. The truth, it hurts.

Seul’s employee confesses to accidentally leaking Oska’s plagiarized song, which is doubly bad for Seul because in addition to making her responsible for this professional gaffe, it also means Oska was right when he suspected her.

As Tae-sun watches interestedly, Oska comes barging in and takes her aside to talk. He doesn’t say anything at first, just fixes his attention on peeling a plate of roasted chestnuts. Seul sits there awkwardly, her anger at being wrongly accused fading since the accusation wasn’t so wrong after all. She admits to being responsible for the song leak, but he doesn’t react much, just keeps peeling.

He offers her the chestnuts, having remembered how she liked them, but she shoots him down — he’s mixed her up with someone else. Oops. Frustrated with himself more than anything, he asks why she ever dated a jerk like him in the first place. He promises to think harder about how he hurt her. (Geez, you still don’t know? You declared that she meant nothing to you — to a guy who you thought she was with for a year — and can’t put two and two together? He gets points for effort, not so much for brains.)

Back to the mountain retreat. Joo-won’s business meeting will keep him behind for another day, so the stunt team heads down first. However, Ra-im isn’t with them; she (reluctantly) stays behind to tend to Joo-won, since he was injured when she kicked him.

Given Joo-won’s stunt about the ankle, Ra-im is reasonably suspicious that he’s faking his injured back, too. As he rests up at his own quarters, he wants her to tend to the swelling, then pulls down his pants (pffffffffft!) to show her the bruise. Ra-im whirls around and squeaks out a protest.

He asks what she did with Oska that other night, and she answers that she went to eat pork skins with him. He grimaces at her pointed comment that he ate it “like a man,” unlike some people.

He insists on taking a walk with her, citing physical therapy, and they walk on in silence. I love that they walk in step with each other, like Ra-im did in his fantasies, and he tells her as much — that he’s walked with her before, back when he kept imagining her appearing before him.

Ra-im looks at him as she thinks to herself:

Ra-im’s narration: There are things that are thought of as fantasies merely because they’re far away. Starry bodies are like that. Just as it is with people who are too beautiful, they readily disappear.

The line is a quote from a book, and she continues, thoughtfully:

“In the books that I’d read to find out what he’s really like, there was a passage that had long settled in my heart.”

Joo-won faces her with a smile, and tears start to form in her eyes as she thinks:

Ra-im: “It’s now that I realize it — how beautiful a person he is. And therefore, how far away he is from me. He’ll disappear someday, too, like people do when they’re too beautiful.”

(It’s a beautiful scene… but rehashes a sentiment I’m pretty sure has been shown before. It sorta sucks out the impact of this “revelation” when the point being made is an old one. Although it is nice that we finally see Ra-im’s longing, on a level that’s deeper than a purely physical pull.)

Joo-won barges in on Ra-im while she’s trying to get a handle on her thoughts, pouting and making trivial requests (water, change the TV channel) just to stretch out their interaction. When he declares he’s going to sleep in the same room with her, she’s not having it and tricks him into stepping outside, then locks the door. Indignant, he tries to pick open the lock with a paper clip, unsuccessfully.

It’s his turn to do the tricking: He talks as though Jong-soo has returned, which draws Ra-im outside, at which point he pushes his way into the room. Before she can shove him out again, he pushes her into bed, holding her to him, and tells her firmly to go to sleep.

Ra-im puts up a struggle, threatening first and then pleading for him to let her go. He doesn’t loosen his grip, and eventually she settles down and stares up at Joo-won for a long beat.

After a charged moment of looking at each other — do you hear that crackling? It’s the tension — Joo-won holds her even tighter and starts reciting his old familiar refrain, the one he used to ground himself in reality whenever his feelings (or hormones) got away from him. Only this time, his voice breaks and takes on a desperate tinge as he recites, over and over.

The next morning, they head straight to the doctor’s office after Joo-won wraps his business meeting. Having assumed he was faking his pain, Ra-im is surprised to hear the doctor declare that the injury was fairly severe.

Joo-won’s mother calls Dr. Lee (Ji-hyun) to ask about Joo-won’s medication, ignoring Ji-hyun’s comment about patient confidentiality and shrilly demanding to know the truth. Ji-hyun is spared a knock-down drag-out fight about medical ethics because Mom receives word that Joo-won was injured, and that Ra-im had been with him.

Ra-im has another stunt training session with Oska, who drives her home afterward. However, he recognizes the chauffeured car parked nearby, and guesses what’s happening. Warning Ra-im to stay away until he calls, he hurries inside — where Mom waits in disgust with a nervous Ah-young.

He tries to get his aunt to leave, but like she’s going to listen to him. Ra-im appears at the door (argh, does she not listen, ever?), and that gets Mom’s hackles up. Oska defends her, but it doesn’t help that Mom’s just found the box of Joo-won’s boxers — the ones he “returned” to Ra-im — and she dumps the box over Ra-im’s head.

Ra-im tries to explain about a misunderstanding, but there’s no easy way to explain Joo-won’s sparkly underpants, and Mom rails against Ra-im’s parents for bringing her up poorly, and raising her to mooch off a rich man.

It’s that low blow that lands with her, and Ra-im says with tears in her eyes that it’s true Joo-won likes her, and that she has developed feelings for him as well — but no matter, because she won’t date him now, no matter what, because he’s not someone she’d dishonor her parents to be with. Crying in earnest, Ra-im says that her father was an outstanding person, and demands that Mom take those words back.

Not bloody likely. Instead, Mom spits out that she can do a lot worse. Yeah, I believe you, viper lady. Finally, Oksa loses his temper and forces his aunt out. When he comes back to check on Ra-im, she’s sobbing her heart out, crumpled on the ground with Ah-young attempting to comfort her.

Hearing that his mother paid a visit to Ra-im, Joo-won immediately heads to Ra-im’s house, and then the action school, to no avail. He then confronts his mother angrily, asking her to back off Ra-im.

Mom declares that she knows he’s taking pills, which to her is a Big Fucking Deal — because of how it would look to the world, of course. Nice of her to care about her son’s health, isn’t it? If word got out that the LOEL president was hopped up on crazy pills, it would look mighty bad.

Mom says the one bit of wisdom she’s probably ever spouted in her life, in telling Joo-won to go for the relationship if he likes her so much. At his astonishment, she points out that he’s not actually fighting with her over this — he’s fighting with himself.

But if he chooses Ra-im, if he marries her and has children with her, he’ll have to give up everything. Mom may eventually accept the child, but Ra-im will never be allowed one step into their hallowed halls. So if he thinks he can be content with only love to sustain him, by all means, go for it.

Finally! Mom graduates from Mere Plot Device and Angstmaker Extraordinaire™ to voice of (spiteful, malicious) reason.

Joo-won returns to Ra-im’s door, this time knowing she’s inside because he can hear her phone ringing. She refuses to answer the door, and in the morning finds him still outside — he sits in his car, having waited through the night.

Joo-won tries to say something, but he admits he doesn’t know how to go about apologizing. If he’s looking for a break, she’s not about to cut him one — not when this is more proof of his arrogant privilege. Why can’t he do something everyone else knows how to do? She’s forever apologizing, and yet he doesn’t even know how.

Ra-im tells him she has to keep living her life in that space where his mother degraded her and her family — so he ought to leave her to her own pathetic life, and return to his fairy tale. She walks away battling tears.

Meanwhile. LOEL is holding its annual VVIP party that night, which Seul plans to attend as part of her patented Piss Oska Off Revenge Plan.

After spending all day in a broody fit, Joo-won comes roaring up to the action school. Ra-im quickly asks Jung-hwan to say she’s not here, but Joo-won knows it’s an excuse and shouts aloud into the empty gym that she’s a coward for hiding, that he’s hardly even begun, that he won’t give up. That if she’s going to reject him, she ought to at least take his calls to tell him so.

Jong-soo comes up to her and points out that Joo-won has a point, and that hiding is the worst option. She bows her head but doesn’t emerge from hiding, and spends the day hunched in the locker room lost in thought. She reads over the string of texts Joo-won sends her, each worried in tone, asking her to answer.

After sitting like that for hours, she finally makes a decision and heads out, arriving at Joo-won’s compound that evening.

It’s not till she’s outside his house that she realizes there’s a party going on. From outside, she sees Joo-won making the rounds, smiling and greeting his guests, and the scene hammers in her status as an outsider (literally) looking in (again, literally) on the unattainable world inside.

Remembering Joo-won’s reaction to her shabby safety-pinned bag earlier, she glances down at her clothes, so unsuitable for this setting.

She hesitates when Joo-won calls, and finally decides to leave, unseen. However, Oska comes walking up at this moment, interrupting her escape.

He notices that she’s freezing and invites her to his house for a warm drink. He urges her to make her presence known to Joo-won, but she’s feeling self-conscious about her appearance and anxiously declines.

That’s no problem: Oska declares himself her fairy godmother (heh) for the night and calls in a styling team to fix her up.

And so it’s a very different, very glammed-up Ra-im who makes quite an entrance at the party, on Oska’s arm. (Ha Ji-won looks hot, but let’s just say that this moment might have had more dramatic impact had Ra-im and Oska not been wearing the same hairstyle.)

Seul glares — surprised, and also peeved to be upstaged just after declaring her intent to be the queen of every event — while Joo-won looks on in a mix of jealousy and shock.

 
COMMENTS

Is it me, or is the conflict getting really repetitive? I really liked much of this episode, but when you stop to think of what really went down in the big conflict scenes, it seems like the answer is, not much. The acting really kills the moments, whether it’s Joo-won’s viper of a mother being her poisonous self, or Ra-im being torn down by these hoity-toity folks, or Joo-won fighting with himself. But the actual facts of the matter? They’ve been long established and aren’t really changing. Yeah, class differences separate them. We got it ten episodes ago, thanks.

In that respect, Secret Garden has always felt like a bit of an antique, premise-wise — something out of a prior age that has been dressed in modern clothing, but hasn’t actually updated its themes or motifs accordingly. It’s the classic mistress dilemma — the woman refuses to be a kept woman, but the man refuses to marry her because his wife must be his social “equal.”

I get this conflict if we’re talking about, say, 19th-century British aristocracy, or 16th-century Joseon classism, or old-timey fairy tales. But it’s a stretch here in modern times. Chaebol families are the closest Korea has to a modern aristocracy and the thematic parallels generally work, but not perfectly, which is why these increasingly dramatic classist clashes are starting to wear thin.

Warning: Rant ahead. Regarding the bed scene —

This scene makes me so mad, because I’m so conflicted about it and it’s aggravating that I even feel torn because I know I should just hate it outright, but I realize the chemistry is sizzling and our couple is just so damn electric together. But I can’t enjoy it either, because the moment is just all kinds of wrong.

Yes, he’s hot, and yes, I love Hyun Bin — who wouldn’t want to be aggressively courted by him? But the fact remains that in this situation, a man tricks a woman, forces his way into her room, ignores her repeated protests, shoves her onto a bed, and restrains her body while holding her close. True, he doesn’t attempt any further bodily violations… but really, isn’t that enough? It’s already assault. The fact that he’s a dreamboat doesn’t diminish the ick factor for me.

Perhaps you can argue that Ra-im actually likes him, that her resistance fades, that she’s actually okay with it. But she says no over and over, and struggles, and asks him to get off her. It resembles a lot of the “forced seduction” scenarios of old romance novels, the kind of scenes that romanticized rape (hey, the hero got the heroine to like it, therefore his brute force was justified) — but which are, tellingly, no longer considered acceptable.

This is so close to the whole “She was asking for it” argument that gets thrown around, the lame defense of “It’s not assault because she liked it, honest.” I’m just… really, really torn about this moment because I want to like it, in fact I do sort of see the appeal and that drives me nuts. Because I also hate it. The very fact that Joo-won IS so appealing is not a mitigating factor but in fact an exacerbating one — it blurs the lines so that you want to cut him some slack, and that does everyone a grave disservice.

I’m more irritated with the drama itself than I am with Joo-won the character, because it’s one thing for a flawed character to act in stupid ways. But it’s a whole other thing for a drama to put forth this scenario and then romanticize it as sexy and moving, putting an uncomfortable glossy sheen on a situation that at its core is deeply problematic. Even if I hadn’t personally known friends (yes, plural) who were raped by men who claimed after the fact, “I thought you wanted it,” it would be hugely upsetting. Oh, it’s okay to assault a woman if she likes you back? Okay, then. Swoon.

But still: Urg, drama, you just ruined Joo-won for me! He’d been teetering on the brink for a while, but had finally won me over with the awesome watching-her-sleeping scene in the beginning of the episode. I don’t know if I can go back to rooting for him now — you can’t un-sour milk, can you?

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562 Comments from the Beanut Gallery
  1. UJ

    ah finally was waiting for the recap <3

    • 1.1 ash

      i loved hyun bin in this episode :)

      • 1.1.1 paper

        Me too ~ but the bed scene brought me to tears… I have issues ok!

        Seriously i’m kinda with you on this JB… but the guy could have been anyone else… still the character would be the same. He may be a stuck up ass but I don’t think for one second he had any other intentions than to hold her in his arms whilst sleeping. Though mind you he did get horny & started doing his crazy thing.

        The thing I had a problem with was… if the writer wanted this scene she could have made it happen without it looking like it was a violation… which it was in my eyes :(
        I mean sure she was subdued but … that’s what happens when you are powerless.

        I will always love Binnie … but unless (god knows how it will be achieved) Joo Won redeems himself in the next episode, i’ll be rooting for Jong-Soo ._. He may be Noah’s Snail but i’m damn sure he wouldn’t violate Ra Im :(

        Happy Holidays Dramabeans & I’ll be waiting eagerly to read GF recap since i can’t watch the episode until I do :)

        • 1.1.1.1 MAVY

          See, I sort of disagree. Normally I’m the type of person that believes this type of thing is insulting, but the argument of how much Ra Im really is just struggling just to keep her;
          “I don’t like you” façade, is in regards to this scenario and plot, true. Ra Im is in all capacity to defend her self kick Joo Woon ass, if she really meant it, How? Why? She is a freaking stunt woman she get paid to kick ass.

          And there is also a repetitive action throughout the drama that has been Ra Im’s signature when she really want Joo Woon to stop, the same action that landed her the role of his care taker in this fine occasiona, she kicks him!

          Ultimately the scene does not feel inappropriate beacause of the context the drama has build. It works in their interaction.

          And by all means please do not believe I condone this type of aggressive courting, If it was up to me I would smack all those girls that dreams of a Twilight like romance. Which is down right wrong, from the mutual stalking, obsessive behavior and suicidal tendencies.

          Beside, considering other scenes in other dramas this looks and feels normal, cute even funny. I was actually particularly offended by the kiss scene at Joo Woon’s house where is actually violent and forceful with Ra Im.

          • 1.1.1.1.1 njeri13

            i sooooooooo agree, though i once wanted an edward like guy, but not anymore.

          • 1.1.1.1.2 Nikki

            I just watched the bed-scene moments ago and I felt
            1st- Uncomfortable, 2nd-Sympathetic, and 3rd-Envious.
            Uncomfortable because Joowon is just WRONG. Sympathetic because he is crazy and has no idea how to get close to Ra Im in normal way. And Envious, because um…I wanna a hug like that MINUS the deception and use of force. Why did the writers have to do this scene??? It’s a stain on the show. I just really hope Joowon apologizes for this one day.

          • 1.1.1.1.3 dreambleedkiss

            i’m not disagreeing with your opinion at all but (and i may be over thinking this a little) but doesn’t this remind you a bit of all those obsessed drama heroines who do successively less acceptable things to force themselves into the guy they like life?
            i suppose i should quote some examples but it 2ish am and i don’t wanna. :) any way it almost seems like commentary on the idea that what’s good for the gander etc. etc.
            force is force whether it be physical or societal (can’t hurt a girl) I don’t think i’ve quite developed this idea completely but thought it was an interesting thought to toss out there

          • 1.1.1.1.4 Lisa

            I agree. The kiss was much more forceful. However, Ra Im is well equipped at any of these times to verbally and physically say “no”. She can walk away, like she ended up doing with the kiss. She can refuse to hear him out. She can tell her Sunbae that she’s not interested and to stop inviting him. She can tell the director the same. She can REALLY hurt him. She can get a restraining order. So many things that she can and probably would’ve done with anyone else.

            Because the character isn’t incapable and HAS gotten out of many such situations with him before, I find it unlikely that suddenly she is unable to do so now.

    • 1.2 deee

      Seriously will stop watching after this! It felt like rape that pushing into the room and sleeping scene. Actually that male lead character is looking like a stalker from the beginning, Just imagine a less good looking guy in his place and then the reality will strike. Force a girl to be his mistress for a short while – What? Love? that? NO effing WAY!

  2. barefeet

    Yay….i been waiting for this! This is a gud eps,
    thank u**

  3. Deeliteful

    yay! been refreshing all day!!!! off to read….
    Thanks JB!

  4. Anonymous

    Oh,the bed scene……I’m dying here…Hyun bin ,hyun bin.hyun bin. I must be losing my mind~~

  5. nunny

    Thanks thanks thanks!…love you jb…

  6. A

    thanks so much!
    been refreshing the db homepage for hours keke
    need my daily dose of sg
    now if only subbed eps would come out..

  7. Aqua

    Oooh… I’m first to comment… I think…
    Okay, that doesn’t matter, but when I looked at the picture of Ra Im dressed up, i thought she was totally some stranger, but then i realized not!! She looked so different, I was amazed.
    I just wish that Joo Woon would stop saying the things about disappearing like bubbles, it makes me soo pissed!!!
    Can’t wait till the next episode! THanks for the update!!!

    • 7.1 Anonymous

      Srry, when i was reading, there were no comments.. lol …

    • 7.2 Aqua

      Srry… when i was reading there were no comments… lol…

  8. BlackJack

    Thanks for the recap! I’m so glad there has been more progress in terms of each other’s feeling (Ra-Im’s especially) in this episode!! Up until now I still heart this serie but I do agree with you with the bed scene! It’s never appropriate to force anyone when they are saying no!

  9. Biscuit

    Thanks for the recap!

    I actually just finished watching this episode an hour ago.

    So far, Joo-won never fails to be adorable. And annoying. But still cute. And annoying. Or annoyingly cute.

    It did seem like there’s progress in Ra-im’s feelings towards JW (it’s funny how we can say “progress” since it’s not like she HAS to like him back, but then again, she has no choice – rules of K-dramas, honey. You either like the lead or you like the lead.), but I’m still not sure where this drama is going… exactly.

    Let’s just say I’ve now forgotten the main plot of this drama (body-swapping), as it’s now gone full out on being a melodrama. But hey, it’s all good anyways.

    • 9.1 Biscuit

      On second-thought, now that you’ve mentioned it, the bed scene probably was a bit overly forceful.

      But I’m sure there’s hope for JW to redeem himself, JB. I mean, even trash can recycled to something better. Maybe Joo-won will go through a more concerning type and will be transformed into a better man in the very last minute of this show.

      I’m betting he’ll remain cocky, but I’m also hoping he’ll think more about Ra-im in later episodes.

      • 9.1.1 Khloe

        thank you thank you thank you. i’ve been waiting on this for a while.

        jb, i see your concern and you are right. it is very disturbing. you are so smart to see how wrong that whole situation was. here’s to hoping that biscuit is right and things will somehow right themselves.

        • 9.1.1.1 maria

          erm…. devil’s advocate here, leme just throw this into the mix.

          wht if the drama INTENDED to make it seem like the bad thing that it is? i mean, as a moral issue, it kind of screws with your head, i admit. but as a plot device? it’s kind of consistent with the characterization, the theme and the progress of the pacing.

          maybe that’s why the progress seems so slow for you. because i DO NOT think that the point was to show too much plot, as much as it wanted to show the constant addition of range to the characterizations.

          i mean, this is the joo won who threw clothes and shoes at her feet at the start of it all, remember? he doesn’t even GET that it’s wrong, it’s so damn single-minded. their methods are consistent with how they’ve been brought up, but it’s all layered by the breaking though of earnest emotions and sincerity that keeps trying to climb its way to the top. and let’s face it, they’ve come a long way from where they started.

          ra-im has always been that apologetic girl with a brash underneath, and joo won’s always been that haughty, self-centered, egomaniacal single-minded pig. who would they be if he didn;t try to trick his way in, and she didn’t try to beat him up for it first? .,….but i believe they love each other. SO– their charcaters only take them so far, and then the earnestnestness of the truth gets through, and what we have then is that quiet moment. where it’s just peaceful, and full of longing, and they are just able to revel in the FACT that THEY BOTH WANT TO BE… just THERE.

          my 2 cents.

          • 9.1.1.1.1 mardie

            agree. JW’s character is just that. he doesnt have the common sense of the common people do, hence, the psychiatrist. and just because he’s the lead, doesnt mean he has to be right, or wrong, and we dont have to take it as a good or romantic act.

            but i wont deny that in real life, the situation is disturbing.

            just my opinion. doesnt have to be right. =)

          • 9.1.1.1.2 sansukini

            I agree. The plot has been consistent with the characters. I know it seemed like he’s assaulting her on the bed but she’s a stuntwoman, she could do some serious damage to him if she wants, but her protests are halfhearted. I’m not saying that “no” means “yes”, but I think that on some level, she do trust him, otherwise, why would she stay there with him alone. He has been constantly forcing himself on her since day 1 so she should know him by now. I’m not saying he’s right in doing that, because nothing can justify violence against women, but I don’t think he was violent with her. I’ve seen a lot of instances where the man forced the woman to bed and assaulted her, but I think, in this instance, it’s just a by play of the characters, I don’t think it’s essential to the plot, but it did show us how pure JW’s intent is to RI in his own weird, sometimes perverted way.

            And I also felt like the story has been winding in circles these past few episodes and I’m glad we finally progressed to the relationship stage. No more subterfuge and no more denial. Thank God. Now it’s time to battle the Evil Mommy. I still love this drama even if it was a bit slow the past few weeks.

          • 9.1.1.1.3 Freedom

            Totally agreed… I didn’t see any ‘violence’ there at all. He just wanted to hold her tight and yes, it did happen ON A BED but to me, it’s almost no difference than the often wrist-grabbing and then quite forcefully pulling the female in for a long HOT kiss. That’s what passion could do to you, in its k-drama way.

            People, please don’t throw those ‘what kind of message does this send’ craps! Now, that’s 16th century hypocratical aristocracy if you said that! If you care that much about how a drama delivers messages, I suggest you NOT to watch them anymore as there ain’t any. It’s just a freaking drama. Can you just relax and enjoy?

          • 9.1.1.1.4 Alexis

            I agree too.. Sick as it may seem, I actually liked the part where he was desperately trying to control his “urges” cos he din wanna “violate” Ra-Im. I think it kinda implied that he saw her as someone pure and worthy to be cherished and loved instead of someone whom he can just have fun with and cast aside. I felt that he cannot resist his urge to be close to her and thus, wanna hug her to sleep.

            Like JB, I also liked the parts where he frowned when she was frowning in her sleep and when they walked in step while taking the stroll. In a way, how often do you find a guy who’s able to sincerely and truly do that??

      • 9.1.2 anais

        The bed scene had me soooo pissed off at the show. It totally sent the egregious message that a dude forcing himself on a woman okay because in the end she loves him.

        I don’t care that this is in keeping with Joo-won’s character. As if he’d ever treat a chaebol daughter so. What kind of message does this send? A woman who’s not a chaebol heiress is game for the taking? And tough girls aren’t really tough girls after all?

        It’s the 21st frigging century!! Let’s let of the notion that she really means yes when she says no.

        Arrrrrghghghghgh!!! My jaws went slack when the Show had Ra-im, a woman whose job it is to kick men’s arses, unable to figure out that freedom was hers to be had by kneeing a certain part of the male body.

        • 9.1.2.1 maria

          i don’t think ra-im ever forgot about her *freedom*, i just think she’s confused as to which freedom she should exercise. the focus of the scene wasn’t the freedom to be FREE of him/her, it was the freedom to be WITH him.

          • 9.1.2.1.1 anais

            I’m not saying you aren’t right in your reading of the scene. What I am saying is that that’s what’s troubling. Look at your own choice of words: she’s “confused.” And that the freedom to be with him is forced upon her? She doesn’t get to choose to realize it on her own terms? That’s the really troubling aspect of the show, that this troubling dynamic is intentionally served up and grounded in the characterizations themselves. E.g., the heroine who’s tough on the outside but who’s as girly as can be on the inside, shyly toe tapping to boot.

            All I can say is that it’s no freedom to have one’s boundaries be violated so reliably. The only freedom that exists under those circumstances is resignation for purposes of self-preservation.

          • 9.1.2.1.2 maria

            oh gosh, you misunderstood me. i understand the troubling nature of the scene, i just meant by “confused”, that she WANTS to be with him, but is confused within herself whether she has a right to or not. he’s certainly making her feel that she does. but everything else she’s grown to know tells her otherwise.

            we’re dialoguing about scene description now, not the rape issue, right? i agree on all counts, i just think because the issue is so large, it eclipsed the scene’s point: showing us that the confusion has been heretofore vaporized— they wanna be with each other, and are scared of how overwhelmingly right that feels, because it goes against all the norms of how they both know they world as. scary stuff indeed. :)

  10. 10 momosan

    Yeah, glad to know I wasn’t the only adult out here muttering “no means no.” Sleep outside her door or whatever, but “no means no.”

    Other than that, can I just repeat _again_ how much I adore Oska.

  11. 11 lola

    i agree with the bed scene rant. I found myself cringing but not knowing why since i could see in the realm of the drama it was supposed to be cute or romantic cuz I knew in real life, even if i was in LOVE with the guy, that would make me run for the hills. Sorry, but no such thing as a sexy almost-rapist

    • 11.1 RoxiahS2

      I agree the bed scene was inappropriately done on JW’s part, but saying it’s almost rapist is really harsh, that’s really reaching it. Plus the scene wasn’t meant to be sexy or touching anyway. Just him and one of his stupid actions that was executed the wrong way because he’s well, stupid, but given his character, we should know he didn’t mean it in THAT way like everybody is making it out to be.

      • 11.1.1 anais

        I don’t think anyone here said it’s rape. But rape isn’t the only way to violate someone physically or sexually.

        What people have found troubling about the bed scene is that the mentality that underlay that behavior also anchors rape. It’s a slippery slope that happens all the time. For example, that mentality is often at the root of date rapes and ongoing rape between long-term couples.

    • 11.2 Ch_nkey...^^

      Okay just chill, it’s just a simple show he wouldn’t do that in real life :) honestly if u felt uncomfortable take it up with the directors cuz they mean no harm

      • 11.2.1 DRAMAADDICT4ever

        I agree with you,everyone should chill,I think they are taking the bed scene way too serious!!!! he clearly did not meant to do any harm.
        I did’t see this type of response on the force kiss which to me was more disturbing than this scene.
        I honestly thought everyone was going to be discusing the drama as whole but most are focusing on a single scene, which makes me sad.

        • 11.2.1.1 Ch_nkey...^^

          At least two people have some common sense cuz this is just a show lol

          • 11.2.1.1.1 gi

            I think everyone knows it’s just a show, but the problem is that the character Joo-won would do that. We’re supposed to like these characters and the fact that he did that is kinda…ugh. I agree with Roxiah though, knowing joo won’s character, he didn’t mean it in THAT way. He was just being his stupid self.

        • 11.2.1.2 Ugh

          I am in TOTAL agreement. As for the bed scene, it is being blown WAY OUT of proportion. It’s not like he was tearing off her clothes. He was HUGGING HER!!

          I found the forced kiss WAY more offensive. Look at her facial expressions after each (the kiss and the bed hug) and you can tell which is more offensive to the character. She was neither screaming nor shouting, nor did she run from him or try to get off the bed after he was just hugging her. She could have, but she didn’t.

          When he kissed her she had the look of his act being vile, offensive and disgusting. You could tell she wanted to beat him, or at least slap him.

        • 11.2.1.3 tamtam

          Yes, why is this so different from the force kiss? Yes, she said no, but she clearly didn’t want him to kiss her either, or at least didn’t ask for one or even have the option to say no.

          I agree it’s disconcerting to see that situation romanticized, if only it’s reinforcing the idea that women should be conquered by force or that the end justifies the means. But in this context, I think it’s well within his character to do so. JW IS forcing his way into Ra-Im’s life, but we the audience know that it’s needed because Ra-Im’s pride and stubbornness would’ve never allow her to continue to associate herself with this character unless forced to otherwise.

          Had JW acted out of character in order to make that scene happen, then yes, that scene could be romanticized a bad real-life situation. But it’s within the same tone of JW’s character and how he’s been “courting” Ra-Im all this time, and the only way he knows how to get what he wants, by force. I think if this particular scene “tainted” JW, then we should’ve dismissed him a long time ago since he’s basically ignored her protests since they’ve met.

          • 11.2.1.3.1 maria

            god, exactly! the WAY he did it is totally in step with how he’s been an ASS all along, and that part wasn’t what romanticized it for me, because that was asshattery, and i admit that.

            but what the scene did to make it different from that forced kiss was to SHOW that joo won and ra-im’s character only really get them so far, because with enough earnestness and sincerity, the truth eventually breaks through. they’ve BEEN falling in love all this time. and NOW, while i think Joo Won hasn’t found out yet that there are lines you don’t cross, but i truly believe that if Ra-Im hadn’t stopped kicking him and begging him to stop, HE WOULD HAVE. and he would’ve whined about it. but now, it’s ultimately about ra-im TOO. i think he’s finding that it’s not enjoyable either unless Ra-im also wants to be there with him. but he’s so desperate to be loved by her and to love her that it’s screwing with his program. get the girl through any means, or love her properly?
            step 1: go with gut. force yourself on her
            unwittingly go to step 2: figure out you love her more than you thought you could.
            step 3: stare and girl and feel stone cold heart thawing.
            step4: share some tenderness
            step5: freak out at how overwhelmed you’re feeling
            step 6: recite Kim Su-ro.

            much like the silent conversation when they were staring at each other, this is them barging into a given situation, guns-a-blazin, and eventually figuring out that they don’t need to be who they WERE with each other– they can just feel what they feel, think what they’re thinking, be who they are. and who they ARE? is two people in love.

            that little beat at the end where she stares at him, and he hugs her even tighter..? i heard it. she was repeating her sentiments about him being a star so beautiful, she’s scared to love him coz she’s waiting for him to disappear. he sees her (he SEES her) and he holds her tighter, coz he’s saying, “i get that. but we’ll fight it.” and he holds her tighter, like a protector,, like someone who’s trying to tell you, “i’m not going anywhere.”

            god, i could go on and on and on…

          • 11.2.1.3.2 MC

            Tamtam,

            I disagree that force is needed by JW to get Ra-im to further their relationship. In fact he must utterly reject that belief and understand that force undermines their relationship even if he seems to get what he wants in the short term. JW’s unwanted actions (from Ra-im’s POV) indicate his failure to understand that her stubborn refusals are not the core problems blocking his way. The core problems are his own beliefs and attitudes which are particularly reinforced by his mother.

            JW must change what he knows about getting what he wants from other people. The benefit isn’t just in getting a great relationship with Ra-im, it is in getting healthier non-romantic relationships such as with Oska.

            JW’s unwanted actions fit his original character because disregard for many other people was something he was taught as his right and which he didn’t question before Ra-im. Thankfully, his character is in the process of changing.

          • 11.2.1.3.3 tamtam

            MC,

            I think you misunderstood me. I meant in order for them to even interact with each other and because of the nature of his character, JW has to force Ra-Im to pay attention to him. Otherwise, Ra-Im would go on her separate way since she immediately finds JW pompous and annoying, and she wanted nothing to do with him.

            I agree completely that JW needs to change to further their relationship and that he is changing. Yes, character development is an essential ingredient in any story.

        • 11.2.1.4 jojo

          ok i totally agree with you!! i think it is crazy how people have been taking this scene!! i dont know i think since its the 13th ep they know each other really well, THEY EVEN SWAPPED BODIES!!! and saw each other naked (practically)! i didnt see it as a forced rape attempt he wasnt ripping her clothes off he generally wanted to snuggle (which i thought was adorable)!! i actually loved that scene hahaha he also knows she totally has feelings for him he has said that before. so ya i think people need to remember this is a drama and to not take everything so seriously!

          • 11.2.1.4.1 caddie

            so agree w/ you. i didnt think much about it and i thought it was a rlly adorable snuggling scene. i think every1 is over-analyzing this. it wasnt rape and he wasnt going to anyway; all he wanted to do was hug her and we all know he’s not the brightest person in the world

            so. final verdict: i thought it was kinda cute… =D

    • 11.3 anais

      For those who think that the negative reactions to the bed scene are overblown, especially in response to those who offer the fact that the two characters have even been in the other’s body, I just want to remind you that even amongst married couples, there is such a thing as unwanted sexual advances and rape.

      My problem with the scene is not with either character. It’s with the entire scene and the show’s decision to depict such a dynamic between the two characters.

      I know I shouldn’t be dismayed to read comments to the effect that “this is just a show,” but I am. I find such comments to be part and parcel of this whole troubling dynamic.

      As for the directors intending no harm, of course they mean no harm. That’s precisely the problem. That they don’t even realize how harmful what they’ve depicted is.

      • 11.3.1 meiguoren

        I’d have to say I agree with anals. We’re not saying it was a rape attempt. It wasn’t. But, it still depicts a man using deceitful and forceful means on a woman. And it conveys the message that it is okay exactly because it is a drama. Producers and directors know that they convey stories and messages, not real life.

        I would be okay with this scene’s place in the drama as a whole if the character Joowon has a complete transformation in how he deals with people, and there is some kind of realization that they way he presently treated people is unacceptable. Some form of forgiveness sought would probably ask to much of the show, but that would be awesome as well.

        • 11.3.1.1 samgetang

          Agree with you, Anais. See my other comments on page 2 as well.

          On second thoughts, the other thing that bugs me in this scene is that this puts their relationship backward instead of forward.

          We wanted to see development, maturity, growth in the individuals and their relationship and for the main male lead, even if he was initially depicted as an a-hole, to use force on the female lead, even without any intention at all towards rape or sexual abuse, is I think several notches step backwards to immaturity and any sense of freedom or true love.

          For Ra Im to develop a more solid healthy attraction to this character Joo Won AFTER this display of man-handling throws some doubt as well to the growth and maturity of her character.

          If they do end up together, which they are sure to do unless this kdrama veers away from the popular, we can see these two characters most possibly resolving their future conflicts in the same juvenile manner.

          And that is a waste of potential…I was hoping that these two characters, flawed as they are, can overcome their own dark pasts, limitations and differences and create a bigger future together.

          Alas! The writers maybe just be here for the thrills… ;-( we we’re all hoping for greatness :-)

  12. 12 Lady Seoul

    Lol, you can’t un-sour milk can you <3
    I totally agree, the last few episodes made me a bit lazy to continue watching SG. But I'm now hyped up because of the pretty scenes I was spoiled on episode 14.

    • 12.1 Nahan

      You can make yogurt with spoiled milk…just saying

      • 12.1.1 sukideo

        LMAO!!! <3

      • 12.1.2 jo

        WIN.

      • 12.1.3 maria

        i love you!

      • 12.1.4 goldenflower

        You win, I love yogurt~!

      • 12.1.5 Kelela

        Yogurt is delicious. ;) Win.

      • 12.1.6 Goldy

        WIN. love you!

      • 12.1.7 Ojou_Belle

        Agree!

        I like yogurt!

        I would also like everybody to know that I sometimes like my man to be forceful and in charge….

        what do you know!?

        I’m not so modern after all and I fit the damsel in distress stereotype! Hahahahah!

  13. 13 Msclockwatcher

    lol, welcome to the club. I’ve disliked all their kisses, particularly the one at his house. Now I hear there something about a forced hug that others are getting disgusted by?

    • 13.1 Baile

      ahh next episode should help you then

  14. 14 yuvee

    Yay! Been waiting for this all day! Can’t wait to see you recap the next episode!

  15. 15 marbleloaf

    I really love oska! he’s a great juxtaposition to joowon. yes, he’s immature in his own rite but he’s a gentleman…and i respect that. i love hyun bin and all but yoon sang hyun (?) is really starting to grow on me!

    • 15.1 rayray

      haha I want an Oska Fairy god-Fashonista-mother!

      • 15.1.1 marbleloaf

        i second you!! he’s got some darned good fashion sense. hahaha, except when it comes to his own hair. waiting for the episode where his hair becomes normal.

      • 15.1.2 loveisouchO.O

        LOL. that reminds me of mgiag now….
        if miho were here, she’d tell oska “neo ….fashionistaya!” xD

    • 15.2 We Yumi

      Oska is a gentleman?

      I’m not sure I buy that.
      We have only seen him interact with three women.
      One he loves Seul,
      one he likes and respect- RaIm and
      one he sleeps with, has nor respect for and discard like a used tissue and expect Joowon to clean up after him With Chae Rim.

      And the series indicates the third interaction is typical of Oska. He has the kiss-of down pat, after sleeping with a woman she send her on her way.

      His mother has so much experience getting rid of girls, she is an Olympic level champion in the sport. And there is a sense this all takes place with Oska’s tacit approval.

      Oska’ mom no longer meet with his problem girl, she gets rid of them through the intercom.

      It is clear that Joowon isn’t as slutty as Oska.

      • 15.2.1 LALAL

        i’m kind of puzzled as to how Oska’s mom doesn’t know Seul but she’s gotten rid of so many woman… wouldn’t you figure that she knows about her? but she had no recognition of her at the sauna or at the dinner…

  16. 16 V

    I’m forever lurking here and constantly stalking DB (gotta get my k-drama fix, yo!), but I almost never, ever comment here. (Sheer laziness might be a factor.) But, your spiel about the bed scene finally got me.

    Caveat: I haven’t watched this drama except for a few clips here and there, although I admit to avidly following your recaps and getting my spoiler fixes elsewhere. That means I also haven’t seen the bed scene. However, I really, really, really (x 1000000) appreciate your insight into said scene, because I think it really speaks to a troubling phenomenon that is the romanticized rape scene and its variants. I don’t really have anything constructive to add to what you’ve already beautifully and eloquently written, but I wanted to say I truly appreciate your differential input on a scene that I’ve seen 99.99% of other fangirls swooning deliriously over.

    It reminds me of that infamous scene in Gone with the Wind wherein a drunk Rhett literally sweeps Scarlett off her feet and to her bedroom, where he violates her. Yeah, Scarlett is shown in the morning as having liked the experience, and one could argue that the event finally allowed them to connect when in almost all of their other interactions, they’re grinding hopelessly past each other. But when all is said and done, rape is always, always wrong, and your conflicting feelings here mirror my own regarding GWTW. So thank you again.

    • 16.1 maria

      i agree with your point, only i think it doesn’t apply to this said scene, because there is a progression of events and a point being made with it, so there’s a caveat in how this particular points applies. :) you should watch all of it, it’s been pretty good so far! (note: some effort to restrain your douchebag reflex may be required though. some of joo won’s asshattery can get pretty ugly….. but it’s all rolling towards a point, don’t worry) :P

      • 16.1.1 maria

        *doucheGAG reflex. hehehehe :D

  17. 17 Dafné

    Thank you for the amazing recap!
    And I totally get your point of view for the bed scene, I think we don’t talk enought of marital rape, or rape by boyfriend, but thing is the line is kind of dificult to make, as between persistent and being a sexual asaulter..
    Also couldn’t we say the same from the start? I mean at first Ra-im didn’t even like him, and he was VERY persistent, isn’t that almost being a stalker? We accepted it because Joo-Won is a litle bit nut, but still… ^^’ Ra-Im accepted it at first because I think she was flattered by his interest in her, but latter it seemed like stalker attitude…
    He is imposing on her, I have to say that before you pointed it out, I didn’t realize this side of the picture, (mostly I think because we know that Ra-im is rejecting him as she doesn’t want to be hurt and because Hyun bin is HOT ^^).
    Well, the overall message of this drama makes me like it less…
    Anyway thank you very much for your recap!

  18. 18 stars4u

    This drama manages to make me love it despite JW’s character! Yes, he’s so annoying sometimes that he becomes absurd but he always manages to redeem himself…

    The scene where JW was watching RI sleep ang their dialogue would be my favorite…

  19. 19 DRAMAADDICT4ever

    To be honest this was the best episode ever!!I like every single scene,including the bed scene, maybe it is just me being a little unrealistic but I see it as him being desperate trying to be with the girl he loves, besides hugging her tightly he did not take advantage of her weak moment when they were staring at each other,instead he controled himself and we could see he was suffering doing it.Call me a pervert but I am soo loving the heated moments that both of them are having. For example I actually giggle when he said”“Uh, there’s an empty room next door…”,because that is actually a mens mentality so it sounded realistic(hehe if it was me I would go for it,sorry but who would resist such a hotie LOL.)

    I personally belive JW loves Raim whole heartly and he does anything and I mean ANYTHING to have her atention and to be with her,just look at his expression at the begining of the episode whe he succeeds and snuggles against Ra-im’s back, he looked like a happy puppy next to its owner. I am soo loving him!!!!!

    • 19.1 DRAMAADDICT4ever

      I forgot to mention, I am the type of person that hate those types of dramas when they want me to believe you can fall in love with your rapist or the guy that physically and mentally tortures you. so I dont know why I find JW so adorable when he clearly does not know the meaning of NO but I guess the writer made him likeable enough for me to see this types of scenes loveable LOL

      Drama you have completely make me a lunatic!!!!

    • 19.2 missy

      I think a lot of stalker or guys who love their subject of affection loves them wholeheartedly too or so they think. Does it make it ok to stalk and force yourself on another person?

      I think the scene was important that it created a great stride for Ra-im to move forward in their relationship but the act itself doesn’t really sit well in real life. Romanticizing something that is not right gives out the wrong message.

      That said, thanks JB for recapping.

  20. 20 Anonymous

    Guess the only reason I wasn’t *completely* repulsed by the bed scene (although I agree with someone who commented on a forum that it was unsettling to watch without music…) was because he didn’t go any further. He just wanted to lay down with her, and went to the extent of chanting that rhyme to keep himself from going any further. I guess there a part of me that believes even he knows how wrong it would have been for him to even kiss her after puling this stunt… I’m choosing to believe it was more about his childish way of going about trying to get what he wants than a thought out plan to force himself on her.

    Or maybe I’m just wrong and letting the fact this is Hyun Bin cloud my judgment… which it could well be :P

  21. 21 Baile

    Cheer Up Java!

    No, you cant un-sour milk but you can make really great sour milk chocolate cake from it( sorry I am a raw milk drinker lol)

    I think that they redeem JW in the next episode..He still isnt totally there but they make (all 4 main) great strides in the next one!!!

    on the otherside as woman who has been assaulted .. it made me very..uneasy.. but not more that that damn JW dominated kiss from earlier….

    I have learn in my post-assault dating that unfortunatley many men don’t understand appropriate touch and scenes like this don’t help… they most definately could have made it differently…

  22. 22 deeko

    The bed scene is metaphoric for me. He’s forced his way into her heart time and time again until she notices him. First showing up at her action school repeatedly, at her house, calling her, nudging her about his status in her life. The bed scene is just another aspect of him forcing his way to her heart.

    I wouldn’t go far enough to relate it to rape or forced sexual whatever though. But then again, I wouldn’t know.

  23. 23 Lucille

    Thank you for the recap. He reminds me of jun Pyo in BBF. You have two emotionally stunted men, trying to attract a girl, and making a mess of it.
    I hope I’m not an enemy to women everywhere because I didn’t view the bed scene as an attack. I didn’t think it was sexy either, but I just sorta saw it as the natural progress of their relationship. From the first episode to now, they have had a violent (physical) relationship. With him pulling her around like a rag doll, pushing her into dressing rooms and with her kicking him, slapping him, and flipping him. They both have done a lot of damage to each other. Their emotions are so explosive, just 5 steps away from being violent. They would call it passionate.
    I agree with Lola @ 11, that type of relationship would not work for me, but I have seen it in real life. I’m sure we all have.

  24. 24 Birdie

    Since the body swap which did not lead to better understanding, this drama had lost its lustre . The themes are repetitive, there is not much progress in the plot and not much character development. JW character is egocentric and a big bully,and to think that the female lead will fall for it go against my woman lib. belief.

    • 24.1 Anonymous

      I have a quick suggestion ,when I start disliking a drama I just stop watching it,I think you should do the same since it is clearly not of your taste.

      • 24.1.1 mardie

        agree.

        • 24.1.1.1 Mars

          I have a suggestion for you guys: goggle Moff’s Law.What then? Read it. Live it.

        • 24.1.1.2 Mars

          I have a suggestion for you guys: goggle Moff’s Law. What then? Read it. Live it.

  25. 25 hiro

    Thanks JB for the recap!

    Now I’m afraid of what GF will say in the next ep recap. LOL.
    But it always a delight to see other point of views.
    Will wait patiently for GF review. :)

    Thanks again JB!

  26. 26 malia

    Agree with you on the bed scene. If she hadn’t been so obviously struggling and saying ‘no’ then maybe it would have been cute but she was obviously trying to get him off her and jw should have respected that.

    Apart from that i actually really liked this episode – i mean JW trying to show his butt to her lol.
    Also Ra-im standing up to JW’s mom for her parents – FINALLY some backbone in the face of spiteful mom! Ra-im needs to stand up for herself a heck of a lot more though!

  27. 27 Zoee

    YES!!…FINALLY RECAP!..know i cant hardy wait for ep 14, i saw the raw and eventhought i dont speak korean, i know something finally settled!!

    • 27.1 Ch_nkey...^^

      I seen ep 14 but without ENG subs!!!! it’s frustrating i cant wait though :PP

  28. 28 qldgal

    When i read your first paragraph, i had only watched the first half of the 13th episode, and thought, man, i hope she’s talking about the bed scene, for the ‘one bit in particular.’ I had the same problem watching it. I was yelling at my screen, “Oh my god, what do you think you’re doing?!” and kept watching, but just couldn’t shake the feeling of how wrong it was. I hate when dramas put scenes like these in, but try to make it seem romantic.
    and i looked it up, you can’t un-sour milk :(

  29. 29 L4E

    I mentioned in the open thread that I see my boyfriend in Jo Won a lot these days..

    well, from social class, wealth, mentality, craziness… down to the: you just can’t help how cute he is.

    Now this bed scene is really something.. because even if It was not exactly what happened to me it really did in some way. it stings. no matter how much I love him it is still a bad memory I wish it didn’t happen. and when I think about it, I fear it will happen again. when your feeling is disregarded.. and your pleading is not heard. it is not about the two of you anymore. it is selfish. even if he excuse himself with “I lost my mind, YOU made me crazy”.. it is even worse because now he is blaming me haha.

    I really hated this scene.

    I think I should try harder to make him watch this series.
    and then rant and rant about this scene..

  30. 30 Anonymous

    The bed scene was realistic. For me, personally, when I like someone even if he’s outright saying he likes me, I’ll try to push it off. But hey, when he does stop that when the heartaches come. Ra-Im might be one of those people who say no but really mean yes, it’s not forcing him on her, their mutual attraction has been established.

    actually I don’t know where I’m going with that…point is, I saw nothing wrong with the bed scene, her refusal was more playful imo than serious. For someone like Ra-Im, I think you need to be more assertive than the average person or else you’ll lose the race, definitely.

    • 30.1 DRAMAADDICT4ever

      I completely agree with you!! good thing I am not the only one that saw it that way.

      • 30.1.1 Baile

        I agree

        • 30.1.1.1 smalltank

          i agree too. she threatened to bite him if he didn’t let go but she didn’t. and given her stunt training she could have just kicked him off the bed.. but she didn’t.. so.. hrmm…

          • 30.1.1.1.1 Ugh

            Agreed.

            Why is everyone making her out to be some weakling damsel in distress? We have to buy into her being weak and feeble for her to be in such a bad position. Do people need to watch the first episode again where she fights FIVE men for the purse?

    • 30.2 teapot

      I’m hesitant to post this response because I want to respect other peoples’ POV, and not force my mine down their throats, but…

      If you say no when you mean yes, for God’s sake stop it. Its not cute, its not coy – its just fundamentally wrong, and feeds a whole crapload of stereotypes and misconceptions that keep men confused and put women at risk. Men need to be able to believe that no means no, they don’t need someone messing with their heads, sending mixed signals that will influence how they interpret other girls saying things in the future.

      OK, end rant. I’m sure this will offend some, and for that I’m sorry. But even knowing that, I’m still saying it.

    • 30.3 Amg1

      I am besides my self just reading the utter nonsense that you wrote!!!!!!!

      If you are new here than fair enough, but old timers around here know that one thing that I wont tolerate or condone is the “abusive treatment of woman”.

      1- I am a “Guy” and scenes like this I do not find “Cute or Sexy let alone Romantic” at all!

      2- Here in the USA according to the law “NO MEANS NO”, I grew in a third world country where by “Force we can make no means yes”, but no still no, no matter what country you are from!!!

      3- Even tough this scene can be seen as a harmless interlude between “Two Lovers”, the real life implications can land you in the emergency room and a lifetime of suffering.

      4- I am always amazed at woman like you (I am assuming that you are a girl) find this “abusive, narcissistic, violent, and aggressive” display of “so called affection cute”, because at the end of the day it says less about the show, but speaks volumes about your own personal approach to life, which i hope for your sake that in real life you will net let “Any person, let alone, someone who claims to have any feelings for you to pin you down in a bed against your own will”
      5- Last but not least, I did not meant for this post to be offensive to you and others, the reality is that I have little tolerance for abusive man!!!!!

      I know some will say Amg1 chill is just a drama!!
      But again the people who make this dramas at one point or another used them as a form of “social engineering”, and the fact that some many women readily excuse the “bad guy” tells me that this dramas can do more harm than good in the long run!!!!
      : O }

      • 30.3.1 DRAMAADDICT4ever

        “I know some will say Amg1 chill is just a drama!!”

        that is the only line I agreed with you, because I think you are taking it way too serious, and I feel you were a little harsh with your words.

        “I am always amazed at woman like you (I am assuming that you are a girl) find this “abusive, narcissistic, violent, and aggressive” display of “so called affection cute”
        WOW if you dont find this offensive then I don’t know what to say.

        The thing I hate the most is when people start attacking others just because they dont agreed with what YOU say
        either good or bad ANYONE IS ENTITLE TO HIS/HER OPPINION!
        Please lets respect one another and remember not everyone thinks the same way(^^).

      • 30.3.2 Anonymous

        As much as it didn’t bug me enough to make me drop the drama, that is ONLY because he stopped at hugging. But even then…

        While I have never been raped, my “loving affectionate” ex boyfriend tried to push me farther than I wanted to go once…and when I started crying he said “well, you wanted it too.” My point? It doesn’t matter WHAT the action is – if you don’t want it, it’s TOO FAR. And I hate that they didn’t have his character stop, back off, and put her wants first.

        Since it’s a drama, and it stopped at hugging, I’m gonna pretend it didn’t happen and forget about it. But if it had happened to a friend? I’d say dump his ass and never speak to him again. No joke.

      • 30.3.3 bleu

        “…………. because at the end of the day it says less about the show, but speaks volumes about your own personal approach to life…”

        Wow, that’s really out of line. Really dude, who are you to judge??

        There are thousands or even millions of people watching the show, and every one of them are having a different interpretation on the matter. So what, one who agrees that the scene is disturbing are great, one who think otherwise is stupid and weak?

        My personal opinion on that scene..
        I think Ra-im knows that Joo Won would never do something to hurt her. I see Rai im’s struggle more as a “this is awkward, I really shouldn’t lay here together with him….” rather than ”shit, he’s forcing himself on me, let go of me you b******” .

        So yeah, I for one don’t take it as serious as you are.

    • 30.4 Min

      Me too. Agree with you.Is not just how the whole thing portray and may have been perceived , is how the two person feel .I believe RI has feeling for JW, and she just need to “surrender” to her feeling..and JW. I do not take the bed scene that seriosly.If RI does not like it at all, she can slap or bite him.LOL.

    • 30.5 sunshine

      Woah. I get that different people have different perspectives, but the no-means-yes statement is one that date rapists use as justification and I am not down with that. Maybe it’s a cultural thing. Maybe Korea still likes to play coy with their men, but in the States, it’s just downright disrespectful (and also illegal) when someone says “no” and the guy still takes that to mean “yes.” I just don’t think it’s a healthy mentality for a society to have, because if that’s the case, how is a man to know when “no” actually means “no”?

      I wasn’t that bothered by this scene because I haven’t actually watched it yet (I only read it from a few different recaps, so my opinion may be colored by the recappers’ giddy squees) and it was just a hug. I don’t think it has to be outright sex to be considered assault, but 1. I cut JW a LOT of slack for saying a child’s limerick to control his hormones and 2. RI didn’t actually fight back…which has been something that’s been slightly bothering me throughout the series. I’m a no-means-no kind of girl and whenever I warn someone to stop doing something before I hit them, I’m serious. She barely puts up a fight in all of the situations where she tells JW to leave her alone.

      • 30.5.1 Biscuit

        This whole yes = no, no = yes…

        When Ra-im said NO, I’m pretty sure, to a certain degree, she was sincere about it. At the same time, I have no doubt that she has a certain level of affection for JW.

        If no = yes, it would mean that Raim would be saying “NO! Don’t hold me!” while thinking “please hold me tighter!”. I don’t think she was thinking the latter, as I believe that as much affection that she has for him, she truly wants to keep her distance from him.

        When she gave in to being held by JW, it wasn’t planned or her sending mixed signals at all. At the time of her saying “no”, she could have been sincere about it. It is also quite possible that her giving in did NOT mean that she was secretly hoping he wouldn’t listen to her.

        Raim could have been saying no to JW to keep distance from him even though she does have a certain amount of affection for him. She might not have minded affection from him, but this whole episode has been about how they couldn’t be together due to societal ranks, etc.

        She could have said “no”, even though she would have wanted to be held by him. Yet knowing that they couldn’t be together, that declaration of “no” could have been completely sincere in the entire meaning of the word.

        Basically, this argument about rape/etc is totally… out there. Human relationships are not as simple as black and white, and the conflicts in this scene is so diverse that ranges so far into the area of mind, hearts, and human feelings.

        Basically, I’m not justifying JW for his actions. But this case, in Ra-im’s POV, has nothing to do with no = yes/yes = no. This conflict goes so much deeper then that.

        • 30.5.1.1 Biscuit

          I forfot to mention, Ra-im giving in at the last min mostly likely had nothing to do with saying no while meaning yes.

          No could have been sincere from the beginning, but that could have been her voicing out reasoning and logic. And in the end, logic was conquered over by the heart.

          It’s…. conflicting. And although not supported in real life, I must remind myself how this is a drama. Take a deep breath. Breath out. And just carry on with the show.

        • 30.5.1.2 colors

          I read most (heated) comments on this first page.
          Having watched the whole drama, I can agree with you about Ra Im being ambiguous with the whole “yes”/”no”. But I also agree that there’s more to it.

          For me, the forced kiss in Joo Won’s house was violent no matter from which angle you look at it (the argument, his wanting to prove a point in a weird possessive way…), but him trying to hug her to sleep was fine. (Though I admit that more would have been really weird considering the state of their relationship).

          Retrospectively, as many people pointed out, Ra Im is stronger than Joo Won (or maybe not “stronger”, but she can fight while he can’t really). This scene was different from Joo Won being beaten up by Ra Im before owerpowering her (“I’m a man too you know, I can display strength”-like) in the action school.

          Actually, I think this bed scene was for me the same of the foam milk kiss. Ra Im was mad at him, but not really, because she didn’t really put strength into slapping him, while her roomate who looks all weak and romantic and all reacted strongly and hit her boyfriend because she hadn’t allowed him to do that and thus was offended.

          Even if you argue that Ra Im had been overpowered by Joo Won (who’s a man, after all), that’s not really true because she can stand up for herself (she isn’t some weak female character who needs protection) and even after being hugged she could have said “no, really, don’t” or kicked him in a place where he’d be really hurt and unable to move.

          I also wanted to point out that Joo Won was a pain in the a. to get to see her and talk to her. But really, she never said explicitly with a definitive tone “get the hell out of my life”. It’s like they were bickering most of the time, and really fighting sometimes.
          It’s like, not saying things clearly make it okay for them to happen. It’s a kdrama thing: the main weak and stupid heroine that everyone loves is not really saying no to anyone (like one of the worse heroines I ever tried to understand in Fashion King -with the second lead guy but also the one she loves… But even Oh Dal Ja is sometimes acting weird with the married/divorced guy in my opinion.)

          And the thing that was fine by me in this scene is that she fell asleep later on (since we see her waking up (and leaving the front door open on her way on a snowy winter day? Ok, maybe she’s weird after all)). Had she been awake all night thinking but being imprisonned in his arms, I’d have been freaked out too. I think she even felt strange to wake up and find herself all alone (hence the door left open?).

          I do agree however that the scene might send the wrong message somehow. But so do most relationships in kdrama…

          PS: I really loved how the comic relief of the expensive underpants became a dramatic item. It even makes you wonder- why didn’t she throw them out? Or left them in the action school? Or give them to the guys? (If someone knows, I’m still curious…)

    • 30.6 geanna

      agree. i don’t get it why people accept the forced-kissing scene better than the bed scene. IMO, the forced kiss was waaay violating her personal space. just look at her expression after both occasions… we’d instantly know, which one was offending her…

      i hate violence too… not that i agree with joo won’s attitude, but ra im is not weak physically. she throws joo won more than a couple times to the ground for god sake~ and she fought 5 men in 1st episode. if she really meant NO when joo won force-hugging her, she can easily kick him right on his crotch! (at least that is what i’m gonna do in her position) but well, she did not. so maybe (pushing aside the fact that joo won ALWAYS act like a stupid bastard), deep down, joo won knows ra im is not saying NO whole hearted-ly~ ra im is not just a common normal woman. at least that what i thought joo won thought about her. so i think, the only way he could penetrate ra im’s incredibly high thick wall is by force… and in several occasions, it manage to break ra im’s wall little by little…

      i get it when she can’t win over joo won when he forced a kiss on her. he’s basically holding her head/jaw/neck with full force that i for a sec, thought it can cause real harm if she fought him. and i hate that scene more than anything. he’s a total jerk when he did that. but i think the bed scene is appropriate, to show that sometimes, a man need to force a girl (like ra im) just to get to her heart. and of course, if only he is dead sure that girl is actually willing…

      on the other hand, being the epitome of persistence himself, joo won might not realize that he is offending ra im’s personal space~ what’s important to him is to make ra im loves him back. it’s sick, i know. but since we know ra im is actually starting to open her heart for him, and i bet joo won kinda felt it too, so i kinda forgive him for being stupid and ignorant and insufferable like that.

      let’s love this drama as a whole. we’ve came to accept joo won’s stalker-persistence-selfish-self for more than 10 episodes and we love to hate him for that. so let’s enjoy it to the end coz the actors really rock SG! and i think the plot is moving real slow but acceptable for my liking. for someone like Kim Joo Won and Ra Im, baby steps is the best. and spoiler alerts, episode 14 really redeems ALL 13 episodes of joo won’s rudeness! reminds me why i love joo won more than any male leading characters out there (well, i love Lee Soon Joon more hahaha!)… he’s actually realistic, has brain and not lame at all~ :)

    • 30.7 nitnotzz

      totally agree with you. People are just need to chill out. If you feel bothered, then drop the drama. as simple as that!

      • 30.7.1 nattacatta

        JB is one of those bothered, so… should she drop the drama and recaps?

        I think the people who are defending the scene are forgetting what a core element of ‘drama’ is: dramatic meaning. Everyone who has studied drama knows that drama isn’t made for no reason, there is always a purpose and a DRAMATIC MEANING behind it (all good drama should provide dramatic meaning).

        What is troubling in this case is that the dramatic meaning/message of that scene concerns assaulting women. Yes, it is assault. Forcing someone to do what they do not want to do is assault, whether it is cuddling, kissing or sex.

        Say what you want about this only being a drama… it is still a part of the media . If the media encourages forced sexual behaviour to women or glamourises it as romantic or sweet then that is a problem. The media is (1) a reflection of, and has (2) a direct impact on society. In both instances of 1 and 2, having these attitudes present is troubling.

        Dramas have messages, plain and simple. If those messages are troubling and offensive, we have a right to speak up.

        It’s tough, cause I was only a little bothered by it initially and now I am outright pissed off at it.

        Having said all that, I am really late on commenting, so I doubt anyone will even read this…

        But, I do still enjoy SG. Thanks for the recaps JB and GF!

  31. 31 namedx

    Hmmm that bed scene was quite a tough one, I had to replay it a few times to actually get over the “man binnie you’re so hot” factor, and realise that this dude is forcing himself onto a girl that he claims to like…Damn it’s a thin line. Though I don’t dislike the scene, I can see why it would be off putting for anyone’s eyes! Truth be told, I don’t actually hate Jwon’s character for it, because from the very beginning, he’s been a character that I would just love to hate. Not to mention, which sane woman would fall prey to a guy who is so damn forceful, to the point that he doesn’t even realise his own wrong doings!? I’m really hoping that the drama will allow Jwon to redeem himself by actually displaying signs of remorse, and offering a sincere apology to Ra Im before the dramas end. That would get me rooting for Jwon. Period.

    Another reason why I’m in two minds about the scene is Ra Im’s response to it. Sure, she resisted, but being a stunt woman, I can’t believe the amount of times that her character is made to give in to Jwon’s forceful antics – be it the wrist grabs (which seem rather severe!), the forceful kisses, the hug and so fourth. I just don’t see it happening these days, lol but mind you it is a drama, for which I am willing to suspend disbelief. And personally, I enjoy these moments of romanticised “forced seduction” which the drama is dishing out, but only on a level which is made to feel romantic and not chauvinistically male dominating. I’d rather settle for a scenario which is more Jane Austen like rather than Mills and Boon trash! Yes, it may not be so appealing in terms of modern day thematic, but who doesn’t enjoy the retelling of Cinderella, no matter how many times it’s been churned out over the decades. I agree, there hasn’t been much “story” to the story, lol but I’m enjoying the gradual process of two people falling in love, warring over archaic notions of social class. But hey, it works in the world of Kdrama!

    Loved the recap-always an insightful read! Thanks.

    • 31.1 rayray

      Ahh I ve always been slightly annoyed with how RI doesnt use her stuntwoman powers on JW specially when he gets all aggressive.

      • 31.1.1 Ch_nkey...^^

        Lol,it doesn’t make sense..^^

      • 31.1.2 ays

        same here rayray, which brings me to utter my 2 cents on the bed scene:

        For the most part, I thought it was cute, but yes, at the same time, that radar inside me went off—you know, the “uh-oh” instinctive radar that informs us to beware of the potential dangers in life esp. when it comes to a guy’s advances e.g. when you wonder if a guy is just being friendly or is being heebie and you need to make a run for it.

        In the midst of thinking “omg, hyun bin is so hot!,” I couldn’t help but be reminded of how strong guys are compared to girls (trust me, I’m not saying this to instigate a debate on sexism—please spare me b/c I’m not saying this as an absolute) and that it’s quite possible for even a stuntwoman like Ra-Im to be unable to move out of a guy’s grasp if that guy made up his mind not to loosen his grip….which brought me to that scary thought—had it not been JW (who I believe did not have bad intentions as voiced by 20, 22, 23), Ra-Im would have been in BIG trouble.

        And JB, you are right. No means no. ALWAYS.

      • 31.1.3 etalo

        yup. agreed. she should get rough at the right time.

    • 31.2 We Yumi

      In general I find the idea of ‘forced seduction’ appalling.

      But was able to deal with this specific bed scene because I think the drama prepared us for it.

      1. Despite the weird lusting leers when the first body switch took place, when the switch was over we learned that Joowon behave like a gentleman –within his limitation–with Ah-Young. He wouldn’t bathe with her, allow her to undress before him or sleep in the same bed with him.

      2. The scene was set up in a way that almost remove the sexual aggression. The ‘cuddle with me’ came at the end of a series to familiar behavior, if you have ever baby sat and tried to put your charge to bed. They almost always resist. making ridiculous demands, anything to delay their bedtime and keep your attention.

      so the bed scene came at the end of a series of harmless (and perhaps annoying -depending on your perspective) ploys

      1- wash my foot–my back hurt and I can’t reach it
      2- I want water (don’t ignore me)
      3- Change the channel on my tv (now that was just annoying if you aren’t flattered that someone wanted to spent time with you.
      4- I’m going to sleep in your room–because etc.
      5- countered by the “I’ll sleep elsewhere–Got ya–I was only joking” ruse
      5- followed by the ‘we’ve got visitors-got ya–I was only joking” ruse.

      The set up inserted a playful element into the interaction that worked towards mitigating the Uck factor.

      That being said, i think dramaturgically it could have been done in a way that might have been less discomfitting.

      If RaIm had struggled less,
      If she had just decided to ignore him/play dead
      it MIGHT have lessened the sense for the audience that the drama was romanticizing sexual violence.

      In some ways the male/female interaction on Korean drama can reflect behavior that was previously acceptable in 1950s American movies. The construct isn’t one to apply to life off the screen. Joowon’s behavior in SECRET GARDEN might imply that stalking is the way to win a woman’s heart. Just like OH Ha In’s behavior in PLAYFUL KISS suggest that a guy who oscillates between ignoring and insulting you is your destined soulmate.

      • 31.2.1 We Yumi

        I also meant to add the another thing the show has established is RaIm’s physical strength–she threw Joowon several times in an early episode

        and Joowon’s lack of physical prowess. I can’t remember another drama that set it’s leading man up as a physical wimp as much as this one does. He gets too winded to follow them up the mountain, and he has a fall that leaves him in real pain. So of the two, RaIm had access to more physical strength if she felt in danger.

        • 31.2.1.1 Yen

          Hi Yumi,

          I agreed with your analysis totally. =) Very well put.

        • 31.2.1.2 Riku

          I agree wholeheartedly with your comments, I want to clap in relief. Having watched it for myself (with subs!) I think I’ll still watch Secret Garden, especially since it wasn’t as bad as say the Que Sera Sera scene (wtf!!)

          However, no matter how unfortunate it is I also see Javabean’s point which is all to valid.
          I look forward to the following weeks to see if Javabean changes her opinion, but no matter what I still appreciate that there is someone who writes quality drama analyses!!

    • 31.3 iMunchNinjas

      Hm maybe yea….I mean no offence I know you people really like the recaps but if people are that desperate for recaps instead of waiting to watch the drama with eng subs just to hate on it then whats the point of posting it on the web instead of taking it to the writers. If you think there encouraging it why dont you and the other people who hated it take up to them and ask it. Have you ever thought of the good side of it, I don’t believe they encourage it you people just think to much of it. We all have rights to speak up, I get it. But really you guys take it as if he cuddled with her yea so he forced her but you know…

      It’s stupid the way he forced her you guys take it like he violated her fully like in ‘You’re Beautiful’ Jeremys thoughts. The apple scene he felt violated and overreacted over giving him a apple. It’s kinda like this, well not much but the point is you guys are like Jeremy overreacting over something that never happened. And this was only in one episode yet you guys take it up with the other stuff. Over one scene people are hating Jwon characters for something that never happened yea sure drama have messages. But really you people overreact and its so annoying. And have you guys forgot in the scene they both tricked each other. great now im tired and bored of this. It’s getiing old how people overreact. So right now all im gonna say hope you are not offended but! Because I love secret garden can’t you people get over it and stop ranting on the badness and the good things plus you people have such dirty minds like that you guys should know a stupid arrogant guy like that doesnt understand =) plus hell make up for it

  32. 32 Deeliteful

    grrr that bed scene…..no comment

    I agree with you about the drama dragging a little. I know the acting is GREAT but can we get on with it?

    He’s rich. He likes her. He’s mother doesn’t approve. Okay got it. Now lets move on, honestly I thought we would have another body swap by now. It was such a big deal episode 6 (yes I memorized it because I watch it over and over teehee) and now it’s almost like it never happened, in fact if it hadn’t happened at all this drama would still be where it is now (IMO)

    I feel Joo-won needs time to redeem himself because as much as I love Hyunnie…sigh I feel like kicking Joo-won where the sun don’t shine

  33. 33 Nahan

    I agree about a the bed scene completely and truthfully that’s how I felt about the kiss scene in the previous episode. He forced a kiss on her and I felt it was a little too aggressive. I’m really not liking Joo-won. Also, I’ve felt this drama moves very slow for a while. I didn’t get really into it until the body swap and it’s maintained my interest partly since.

  34. 34 Josina

    Just my two cents: I found myself questioning why I love this series even though the recent forced kiss and now this forced bed-sharing made me somewhat uncomfortable, and I guess it’s because Secret Garden is a screwball comedy.

    The physicality of it, along with the verbal sparring, is very much part of the genre. It’s why I personally find it funny when Joo Won gets his shin kicked when he’s being an asshat, even though in real life – not so much.

  35. 35 Amg1

    JB, thanks for your hard work!!!!!!!

    There is a “fine line” between, a touch and a “Touch”, and that is the main reason that I had such problem with the abusive nature of “Prosecutors Princes” relationship between “Ma Hye Ri” and “Seo In Woo”, and also the relationship between “Coffee House”, “Lee Jin-Son”,”Seo Eun-Young”, and “Kang Seung-Yeon”.

    From a far this relationships look very “Cute” but once we take a closer look, some of the “cute” is nothing but “abusive, and very codependent” in nature, and do not get me started in the proverbial
    “wrist grabbing” those things just drive me off the wall, as many of you have noted in my post concerning this dramas!!!!!

    Thank you for “standing” for what is “Right”!!!!!!!
    : O }!!!!!!!!

  36. 36 namedx

    “Just him and one of his stupid actions that was executed the wrong way because he’s well, stupid, but given his character, we should know he didn’t mean it in THAT way like everybody is making it out to be.”

    Lol I agree, from the onset, it was clear that Jwon is not your usual nutcase. His way of going about things is absolute manic, but hey, that’s what makes his character all the more endearing.

  37. 37 Nana

    Yeah, gotta agree with you on the bed-scene. In real life, it’s not pretty like that. I had some similar situation, it wasn’t pleasant, even though I didn’t dislike the guy before, I disliked him after.

    • 37.1 Ch_nkey...^^

      I uderstand you it’s not a good feeling

  38. 38 Ch_nkey...^^

    I honestly love this show!! i’ve slept for only a few hours waiting for each episode, and Ep 14 is a much watch but ppl we need ENG subs!!!!!!!!!! it’s frustrating

  39. 39 Ch_nkey...^^

    You guys are arguing over something stupid, i mean really it’s just a freakin show it’s not like he would do something like that in real life it may seem that way but it’s not

    • 39.1 momosan

      The reason why we discuss a scene like that, particularly in a comedy where it’s made out to be sweet, is that, particularly in the US, we’ve spent 30 years trying to educate everyone that “no means no.” And a scene like that, despite it being played as a comedy, doesn’t help any. I’ll grant you it’s slightly mitigated by the fact that he did indeed not do anything, but way to set back the clock a bit, eh?

      We haven’t gone into Luke and Laura land (and yeah, that’s really showing my age) but it came very very very close to crossing the line.

      OTOH, in real life I’d have filed for a restraining order and a concealed carry permit about 12 episodes ago.

      • 39.1.1 celestialorigin

        I’m with you. Yes, 12 episodes ago. If JW is not a fictitious character/Eternally gorgeous HB, but a real Joe in the US of A, restraining order is due for him & HIS MOTHER ;)

        • 39.1.1.1 We Yumi

          Real life=restraining order.

          Especially on his expensively and atrociously dressed vulgarian of a mother.

        • 39.1.1.2 YoSoyHaru!!

          Lmfao!!! I totally agree

    • 39.2 DRAMAADDICT4ever

      Agree 100%

    • 39.3 ladida

      1. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could maintain a level of respect?

      2. Who is this “he” who wouldn’t do it in real life? Joo-won is not a real character; he’s a creation for a show, and we are discussing his actions within the world of that show and how his actions relate to the real world/how they reflect real situations that women have to deal with in their relationships. Surely the “he” referred to would not be Hyun Bin, considering he’s simply the actor? Let’s not conflate identities here.

  40. 40 Dorotka

    I didn’t mind the bed scene.
    I more minded the fact that they left the DOORS OPENED! :-)

    Anyway, I think in this episode Joo-won realizes that Ra Im likes him as well. And in his way he is trying to get the reaction from her, to stop her selfdefense and show her true feelings. And get some skinship, of course ;-)
    And he loves provoking her :-)

    What I found more interesting was the moment went they are together in the bed and it seems (at least to me) that Ra Im is thinking about to kiss him and he sort of gets scared… is this the right way? Will Ra Im get hurt? Am I ready to be responsible? … and that is why he stops with any advances… because I think at that point Ra Im wouldn’t mind some skinship action (and she misses him in the morning)

    Or I have to much fantasy :-)

    • 40.1 Jomo

      Yes, it made me a little uncomfortable when he started holding her against her will, but, I agree with you. He stopped, he sort of gets scared… is this the right way? Will Ra Im get hurt? Am I ready to be responsible?

      And, I agree with the people who say Key Lime gives as much as she gets with JWon. Is being mutually abusive cute and romantic in real life? No, but it is a show!

      I loved the first scene when the JW and JS were fighting to be close to Key Lime. It looks like the three actors may have been having a tough time not laughing. I think IRL, that Phillip Lee and HB must get along really well. That comes across in all of their scenes. A sort of mutually respectful but competitive thing. I LOVED when they had the drinking contest and PL was bellowing.

  41. 41 rayray

    I actually like the slow progress of the show and the pace..its sort of very realistic in comparison to other shows that try to pack as much as they can in 20 hours worth of episodes(cough~mary kidnapping angst cough~). So far the show has still got me swooning and well,intially, when I had watched the bed scene, I did swoon but I also did feel uncomfortable..you see within the context of the show it seemed almost perfect but if I were in that situation in real life and a guy did that, I could honestly say I would have screamed and seriously cried(I do have space issues but I think most girls would react this way no matter how cute or handsome the guy is)

    le sigh~conflicted as well.

    haha on a lighter note, I laughed quite inappropriately when I noticed how Oska and Key Lime had the same bangs split keke..also did anyone hate what JW was wearing at the party. Never before have I really had issues with the way he dressed but I really hated the strange lady schoolteacher/librarian outfit..even Binnie cant make it work.

    • 41.1 Ch_nkey...^^

      Mary stayed out all night is getting quite boring :P

      • 41.1.1 rayray

        I know! sadness! I ve pretty much stopped watching it and now only read the recaps for MSOAN.

        • 41.1.1.1 Ch_nkey...^^

          Haha.. i know i only wait for the recaps now or i either skip through some parts of the episode. I personally thin jun-in needs to man up and grw some balls

    • 41.2 Josina

      I can’t say the lady schoolteacher/librarian outfit stood out, even though finding out what crime against fashion Joo Won wears in every scene is one of the highlights of the show for me. :-)

      I think the pace at which the relationship evolves is perfect, I can’t stand dramas where one of the protagonists declares their undying love in episode 3 for no discernible reason.

      • 41.2.1 rayray

        hehe! JW and his crimes against fashion hehehe!Somehow its always the rich people( depicted in dramas )who have the strangest and worst taste in clothes…I mean the guy owns a mall!!
        I ll take sparkly tracksuits and boxers any day but that party outfit had me all kinds of ‘Whhhaaaat’

        I totally agree! I like seeing how their attraction grows into love in a normal pace :)

      • 41.2.2 We Yumi

        I think when Joowon is off, it only a misdemeanor against fashion. When he is on, he is quite nice.

        For me the real fashion criminal is Joowon’s Mom. That woman commits felonies every moment she is on screen.

    • 41.3 Jomo

      I think they had to have done their hair the same on purpose, especially after he had complained that the 40 year old ajumah had the same hairstyle as Oska.
      I mean why would they have slicked back one side?
      That was fabulous!

  42. 42 namedx

    “haha on a lighter note, I laughed quite inappropriately when I noticed how Oska and Key Lime had the same bangs split keke..also did anyone hate what JW was wearing at the party. Never before have I really had issues with the way he dressed but I really hated the strange lady schoolteacher/librarian outfit..even Binnie cant make it work.”

    Lol I’ve got to say, nearly all their outfits got me cringing, especially when put next to the cheesy decorations! *shivers*

    • 42.1 rayray

      hahaha oh man! those decorations were something! I mean I m all about christmas lights but they didnt have any self control!

  43. 43 maez

    YAY! SECRET GARDEN WILL FOREVER BE MY 2010 LOVE!!!

  44. 44 teapot

    I get a kick out of the Gremlin shirt RI is wearing at beginning of the party. Hehe… something else that changes dramatically when exposed to water (in reference the magical rain un-switch of episodes past). Thanks for the screen caps, I didn’t even notice when watching the stream.

    • 44.1 Jomo

      I noted the Gremlin shirt, but attributed it to the fact that it is Christmas, as it was in the movie.
      Good catch on the link to water making them both change!

      • 44.1.1 teapot

        haha, glad I wasn’t the onlu one who noticed, and I like your Xmas catch – I’d forgotten that part of the movie!

  45. 45 Anon106

    I absolutely feel your conflict and anger about the bed scene. As soon as I read your intro, I knew exactly what you were talking about. I haven’t figured out yet how to really resolve my feelings about it yet but this is all I have so far. The scene as it was, angered me greatly. Ill-equipped or socially inept, JW should have stopped. He also should have apologized. I might have even been able to accept the scene if all he had done after all of that clunky bed maneuvering was actually look at Ra-im and ask, Am I hurting you?

    I think what makes me not entirely throw out the scene is the point of the moment. The episode was somewhat Ra-im-centric (WHICH I LOVE) because I thought that this was where Ra-im had to face her own feelings–to directly confront how Joo-won fit in her life. In the last episode, ignorance was bliss. But after her previous realization of her current fantasy-reality, she can’t go back now. She has to keep moving. It carries through when she wakes up alone, still unsure.

    It doesn’t really add much but there’s my small two cents.

    I have to give great props to Ha Ji-won and Hyun Bin. They just constantly blow me away because even with that, they kept the momentum going throughout the episode. I personally, don’t feel like the conflict is repetitive–I mean, yes it is the same issue–but it’s something they’re dealing with differently each time. Everything’s out in the open, or at least starting to be and I am still rooting for them.

  46. 46 xXMzSmilesXx

    How hot did Ra Im looked! And i totally get it would have been better if Osaka & her had different hair.

    Despite its flaws I still love the drama. And the bed scene, yeah i get your opinion on that but until you pointed it out i never even thought of tht.

    My love of SG blinds me. XD ahaha

    TY for the recaps been waiting since yesterday for this. =))

  47. 47 SGcrazed

    this drama is bad for my heart….i for one wasnt too worried about the bed scene coz i had faith in him not to harm a hair on her…..he knew after she calmed down even with the tension that it was not the time to take it further coz it would have been all wrong

  48. 48 Acidimp

    The world is big and varied and people do a lot of things in the privacy of their lives that may seem questionable to anyone looking on. When are we going to stop being so dam PC and have the guts to acknowledge the the play between men and women can be tender or rough and everything in between. I know a lot of people who wrestle, fight and rough it up for fun or as a prelude to other things.

    So, calling everything that makes you uncomfortable or looks forceful rape is just as damaging to real rape victims. Like all the people running around shouting pedophilia to anything that even vaguely involves some childish thing. Rape cannot be identified by a bystander, it’s up to the victim to decide.

    Nothing in that scene had anything to do with real rape, I really question all the people claiming they know about real rape. She punches him, kicks him and has thrown him to the ground. Isn’t that abuse? Why isn’t anyone crying out about that? They both play rough with each other and they both seem to love/hate it. The show makes it clear that she is a martial artist and she clearly can take him down when she wants to.

    There was no trauma in that scene, no crying or conflict on her part after that wrestling match. She is clearly not a victim of anything so why is everyone so determined to make her one? It’s funny that some of the same people who cry rape are the same ones who bitterly complain about the lukewarm sexual tensions in shows and drama.

    • 48.1 Anon106

      I don’t think anyone here is crying rape. I think the concern here is how much the action blurs between what is considered romantic pursuit and what is aggressive unwanted behavior.

      • 48.1.1 SECRET GARDEN#1

        I am sorry to disagree with you,because some are comparing it with a rape scene which to me is absurd. I don’t know how it got to the point that everyone is now attacking the drama for such a harmless scene. I agree completely with “Acidimp”

        I have been waiting like crazy for this post, because I love this episode completely, but after reading so many negative comments all they joy I got from the drama just fade away.
        I hope no one starts attacking me for my personal point of view.

        • 48.1.1.1 Anon106

          Opinions are opinions. And if you are happy with the episode then by all means, be happy. I was happy with most of it too. Ra-im and Joo-won are spending more time together, Oska is funny practicing his dance routines, Joo-won’s mom is a really good character to hate and Ra-im has Oska for a fairy-godmother. There was a lot I enjoyed. And still do.

          I just thought it was a valid and worthwhile comment to consider the bed scene and how it reflects on relationship dynamics that can be found in kdramas as a whole. Do I think that Joo-won was assaulting her? No, I don’t. Can I find scenes like this in other dramas that could be considered misogynistic? Yes, I can. I feel that JB makes a great point about what is considered acceptably romantic or even wonderful about someone who acts forcefully. Especially if there is a voice of protest.

          I hope you don’t think I’m attacking you. I respect what you and “Acidimp” have to share. I’m still watching SG. I love Ra-im and Joo-won. But I also don’t think that it hurts to consider the show’s flaws either.

          • 48.1.1.1.1 asianromance

            just want to say i love this even-tempered response!

          • 48.1.1.1.2 DRAMADDICT4ever

            Thank you so much for your response,I can clearly see your point of view,you were not offensive at all.I do believe we can either agree or disagree on a matter without insulting one another, that is what you just did and for that I greatly appreciate it.

        • 48.1.1.2 cityhall_love

          Totally agree…I love the scene because can feel just how much he loves her & he is consistent throughout the series, with his man-child logic, but after reading this, it took some of the joy away..

    • 48.2 ladida

      I agree with you about how Ra-im physically hurts Joo-won. They do have a rather abusive relationship, however I don’t think anyone was “crying rape.” I just think people are annoyed that Joo-won’s character is so aggressive and seemingly unaware of how aggressive he is. There is a contradiction in Ra-im’s character: she’s a stunt woman who can flip him onto his back, but she suddenly gets weak wrists when she’s trying to push him off her. I don’t know if I should read it as a kdrama cliche or as her not really wanting him to get off of her. I wonder if the show is portraying their relationship as one in which force and violence is another way for them to communicate, and if we are just extrapolating Joo-won’s actions into our own individual experiences?

  49. 49 Lahlita

    Damn, Sarah. DAMN. Wae do you bring up these women’s rights issues? You KNOW I’m like a dog with a bone about that shit (see my every rant about Cinderella’s Sister‘s Ki-hoon ever). Now I’m about to embarrass myself again all over your site. Again. Damn.

    I agree with you about the bed scene. The only difference between us is that I’m not at all ambivalent about it. I hated it. I was a victim (I was a child), and after that experience, nothing is gray. Here’s my take on it; a man should never put his hands on a woman’s body without her permission, and by ‘her permission’ I mean her actually saying — out loud, in words — “Oh, yes, put your hands on me, you sharp cheek-boned stud of lust!” If she hasn’t asked you to touch her, DO NOT touch her. My brothers have reached the dating age, and I have had some incredibly frank conversations with them about the way they are to conduct themselves with women. ‘No means no’ isn’t even enough. As I told them, “The answer is no, until she tells you — out loud, in words — yes. If you haven’t gotten the verbal go-ahead, look her straight in the eyes and ask her to tell you what she wants. Do NOT put your hands on her at all until she asks you to, not even if she’s trying to rip your shirt off with her teeth.” They thought I was crazy, but I’m not about to be raising any neanderthals.

    Getting overpowered by a man isn’t romantic. I don’t care if it’s Mr. Lahlita or Hugh Jackman (and I lurves me some Hugh Jackman, shit), there can be plenty of passion, excitement and spontaneity with mutual consent. Let me say yes first, then you can be as Viking as you like. That’s why God invented safewords.

    I think this has always been the biggest turn-off for me as I watch K-dramas; the incredibly proprietary attitude men/’heroes’ take with women’s bodies, and the willingness of some viewers to color that possessiveness as romantic. I do understand that Tarzan-Jane dynamics also exist in Western media, but it usually comes with a caveat of shame or undesirability — it’s usually a trait ascribed to the villain — and I’m OK with that.

    • 49.1 Lahlita

      And now, for the drama itself, yes, the chemistry is off the chain whenever Joo-won and Ra-im are together. Hyun Bin and Ha Ji-won are wonderful to watch. Generally. Hyun Bin made me snort and giggle a bit in MNIKSS, but nothing like the laugh-out-loud guffaws he brings here. It has been a fun ride!

      Also, Raim’s party hair was totally horrid. Like, really bad. So bad that I’m speaking Valley.

      • 49.1.1 ladida

        “Let me say yes first, then you can be as Viking as you like. That’s why God invented safewords.”
        Lol.

      • 49.1.2 asianromance

        I was also disappointed in the hair. I was expecting a softer look. But remember, this was some stylist that Oska brought in to transform Ra-Im.

    • 49.2 Viola

      *Hugs* You can have Siwon for a week, in the spirit of Christmas and all.

      • 49.2.1 Lahlita

        Holy moly, Siwon for a week! Did the world just end? Did Christ return while I wasn’t looking?

        Ha, love you, girl. *hugs back*

        • 49.2.1.1 maria

          i’m sorry you had to endure anything like that. nothing will ever be enough to erase that, but for christmas, i give ANOTHER week with siwon. how’s that? adds just a tiiiny bit more christmas cheer? :)

          i hate rape. and joo won forcing the *issue* was craptatically idiotic. douchebaggery and asshattery at its *finest* :/ .. but as a plot point, and as part of the whole story in general, don’t you think it made sense? …just, for him to have approached the situation like that, i mean. who would they be if he wasn’t a brash pig first, or she wasn’t a cautious and annoyed cat? it wasn’t romanticized for me, because they were true to form.
          if he hadn’t set an irrationally low bar for his own self, if we hadn’t had any precedent of his usual brashness leading up to this, or precedent of Ra-im’s USUAL reactions to his advances, i would have been the first to call it. “RAPE!! F*%(*& RAPE! NOT COOL, YOU SHARP CHEEK_BONED STUD OF LUST!!!”
          but we saw, how in that scene, both of them were a FAAAR WAYS away from who they both usually were, how they usually react (read: more vigorously and with more disgust) and how they used to feel towards each other, that after an initial indignance at the force used, i just sort of settled down, and i thought, “well, godammit.”

          there’s a little beat at the end where you can tell the focus of the scene isnt really her wanting to be free of him, as much as she wants to claim the freedom to be WITH him, and she stares and him and he hugs her tighter, and he silently answers her wonderings about him being a star who will disappear one day. for all the hooply surrounding the “rape”, i think some people missed out on the scene being THAT scene that sealed the deal for them. he had just told her then, “i’m not going anywhere. you can believe that”.

          the romance, for me, came then. after the caution, after the force, after the misgivings and the guilt. they became two people who didn’t need to be who they WERE anymore, they’ve become two people who just wanted to be THERE.

          • 49.2.1.1.1 maria

            hooply? …*hoopla. LOL

    • 49.3 gllitterkid

      Totally agree with your comments. I’m horrified that most of the commenters liked or accepted the bed scene. Have we become that de-sensitized to physical assaults in K-drama? I was totally engrossed up to that point…I was really enjoying the relationship. But now I’m very, very uncomfortable. Just because you dress up the violence with soft lighting, swelling music and male consent, it doesn’t change the fact that its still violence. I’ve noticed that “no” does not mean “no” in K-drama. It just means more grabbing, forced kissing and assaults. Will I finish “Secret Garden”. Probably not. Too bad really. Hyun Bin is a good actor.

  50. 50 jusash

    THANKS jb in this festive season, for giving us recaps!

    Watched and loved ep 13 and 14 … with some misgivings.

    1) While I had the same conflict re: bed scene (and prior – his forced kiss) …. admittedly I just LOL-ed when JW started his chanting in bed after getting her finally into his ‘ideal position’.

    Like, how bizarre is that (and the impossible childish petulance of this one-track guy) in the context of ‘rape’?

    How can you ever take this crazy dude seriously? Especially after his antics on the mountain in the morning? And so perhaps because the bed scene was set in this comedic, light-hearted way (I was roflmao at his desperate tap-dance up and down the stairs too) … it was much easier for me to indulgently close one eye.

    A forgiveness that would normally not be there, for similar situations. It was like watching this majorly spoilt child throw a tantrum. And it amazes me both times our kick-ass sassy stunt woman couldn’t fob him off at all (first the forced kiss, and then the bed scene)

    2) Was I the only one who didn’t think Ha Ji-won wasn’t so “hot” in that party outfit?

    (a) nevermind the twin-effect with Oska’s do.
    i also thought that heavy accentuated turf-fringe kind of left her (imo) somewhat bald on one side, and that drastic part accentuated the roundness of her face, making it plump
    (b) the short tube (which I thought didn’t do justice to her figure) which made her look stumpy overall.

    • 50.1 rayray

      oooh hahah I thought I was the only one who noticed the strange hairline on her left(it was so distracting in episode 14!)
      I really wished they had made her up as JW imagined her the first time! with hair slicked back and that nice grey dress!

    • 50.2 mastille

      LOL when I watched that bed scene raw first I thought that he was forcing her onto bed and then saying the rhyme because of his nervousness at them being so close together! And I was like “HAHAHA THAT’S WONDERFUL! YOU PUT YOURSELF THERE DUMBASS.”

      Maybe that first impression is ONE reason that I didn’t dislike this scene as much as others…

      • 50.2.1 maria

        i don’t think he was chanting it out of claustrphobia, just sayin…

        there was WAY more to be anxious about after he hugged her tight than just the closeness. he was the one who pulled her in tight, remember. if he was anxious, if he was overwhelmed, i believe it would be more the fear that comes with declaring what he just did after pulling her close: “i’m not going anywhere. don’t look at me like that, don’t worry– i’m not leaving you, and we’re going to fight fr this”

    • 50.3 zj

      yes i thought Raim looked bald on one side too!! The makeup wasn’t very good either. Somehow her eyes look smaller than usual haha

    • 50.4 We Yumi

      Totally agree with you that that spoilt kid antics throughout the day took the sting out to the bed-hug scene.

      And kind of agree with you about the make-over. She looked dressed up but I didn’t much like the dress.

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