Secret Garden: Episode 13
by javabeans
Some really nice moments in this episode, and some long-awaited movement on Ra-im’s part (finally!), help mitigate some other bits that I hated. Or rather, one bit in particular. (I really wanted not to hate it, but it’s one of those things that you just can’t bring yourself to accept, y’know?)
SONG OF THE DAY
Jung Yeob – “Love You” [ Download ]
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EPISODE 13 RECAP
My absolute favorite part of Joo-won staring down at a sleeping Ra-im is how, when she frowns, he frowns too. Despite his emotional stuntedness and his absolutely inappropriate ways of treating people’s feelings, he’s in tune with her feelings and dislikes seeing her experiencing a nightmare. (Too bad he can’t make the mental connection and see that HE’S the cause of some of her waking nightmares, so to speak, with his harassment.)
When she awakens, they stare at each other and have a silent conversation (their thoughts are to themselves, but form a dialogue) which ends with Ra-im mentally telling Joo-won to come by in her dreams again. And then Joo-won utterly ruins the connection by whispering, “Uh, there’s an empty room next door…”
Ra-im grimaces — men! — and shoves her pillow in his face, but both immediately duck down and feign sleep when Jong-soo enters the room. Seeing Joo-won cuddled up to Ra-im, he drags him away, then settles down on the ground to claim the spot next to her.
Not about to be outdone, Joo-won pretends to sleep-wriggle his way back up, wedging himself between the two. He allows himself a gloating smile and snuggles against Ra-im’s back. One point, Joo-won.
In the morning, Ra-im and Jong-soo head out for a hike together, ignoring Joo-won’s pestering questions. He manages to catch up to them on the trail, though he gasps along and asks them to slow down. Instead, Ra-im suggests upping their speed, and Jong-soo happily obliges. One point, Jong-soo.
At the summit, Ra-im declares that winter is her favorite season because the cold forces you to keep walking to keep from freezing to death, warming the body. Well, that’s optimistic in a morbid sort of way.
On their way down, they find Joo-won huddled in the cold, notably opting for the exact opposite of Ra-im’s hypothetical scenario. He sits and waits rather than moving, his body cooling instead of heating.
Grimacing in pain, he makes a big deal about twisting his ankle, and hobbles along with the aid of the other two. They’re particularly annoyed with the way he leans all over Ra-im, using this as an excuse to slip an arm around her and pat her hair.
Finally Jong-soo has enough and declares that it’ll be faster to just carry Joo-won on piggyback… and miraculously, Joo-won declares his ankle healed. Hur.
Disgusted with his cheap trick, Ra-im delivers a swift kick to the shin. Joo-won protests that he really was hurt, clutching his kicked leg while hopping on his good one… then loses his balance and goes toppling down the slope.
Oska calls Seul’s social-climbing friend to ask her about things he should have frankly asked years ago. I suppose he was afraid to face the possibility that he’d been an ass, as he admitted to Ra-im, and now the friend confirms as much. Seul didn’t actually study abroad with that douchebag, as he’d believed, and had even attempted suicide. The friend advises Oska to hear the rest from Seul, since it’s not really her place to divulge all this. Yes, so discreet of her to share everything but one last detail.
Oska grows teary-eyed as she reminds him that Seul doesn’t have a lot of friends because he’d been her everything. She was always there when he needed her, but he was never there for her. The truth, it hurts.
Seul’s employee confesses to accidentally leaking Oska’s plagiarized song, which is doubly bad for Seul because in addition to making her responsible for this professional gaffe, it also means Oska was right when he suspected her.
As Tae-sun watches interestedly, Oska comes barging in and takes her aside to talk. He doesn’t say anything at first, just fixes his attention on peeling a plate of roasted chestnuts. Seul sits there awkwardly, her anger at being wrongly accused fading since the accusation wasn’t so wrong after all. She admits to being responsible for the song leak, but he doesn’t react much, just keeps peeling.
He offers her the chestnuts, having remembered how she liked them, but she shoots him down — he’s mixed her up with someone else. Oops. Frustrated with himself more than anything, he asks why she ever dated a jerk like him in the first place. He promises to think harder about how he hurt her. (Geez, you still don’t know? You declared that she meant nothing to you — to a guy who you thought she was with for a year — and can’t put two and two together? He gets points for effort, not so much for brains.)
Back to the mountain retreat. Joo-won’s business meeting will keep him behind for another day, so the stunt team heads down first. However, Ra-im isn’t with them; she (reluctantly) stays behind to tend to Joo-won, since he was injured when she kicked him.
Given Joo-won’s stunt about the ankle, Ra-im is reasonably suspicious that he’s faking his injured back, too. As he rests up at his own quarters, he wants her to tend to the swelling, then pulls down his pants (pffffffffft!) to show her the bruise. Ra-im whirls around and squeaks out a protest.
He asks what she did with Oska that other night, and she answers that she went to eat pork skins with him. He grimaces at her pointed comment that he ate it “like a man,” unlike some people.
He insists on taking a walk with her, citing physical therapy, and they walk on in silence. I love that they walk in step with each other, like Ra-im did in his fantasies, and he tells her as much — that he’s walked with her before, back when he kept imagining her appearing before him.
Ra-im looks at him as she thinks to herself:
“Ra-im’s narration: There are things that are thought of as fantasies merely because they’re far away. Starry bodies are like that. Just as it is with people who are too beautiful, they readily disappear.“
The line is a quote from a book, and she continues, thoughtfully:
“In the books that I’d read to find out what he’s really like, there was a passage that had long settled in my heart.”
Joo-won faces her with a smile, and tears start to form in her eyes as she thinks:
Ra-im: “It’s now that I realize it — how beautiful a person he is. And therefore, how far away he is from me. He’ll disappear someday, too, like people do when they’re too beautiful.”
(It’s a beautiful scene… but rehashes a sentiment I’m pretty sure has been shown before. It sorta sucks out the impact of this “revelation” when the point being made is an old one. Although it is nice that we finally see Ra-im’s longing, on a level that’s deeper than a purely physical pull.)
Joo-won barges in on Ra-im while she’s trying to get a handle on her thoughts, pouting and making trivial requests (water, change the TV channel) just to stretch out their interaction. When he declares he’s going to sleep in the same room with her, she’s not having it and tricks him into stepping outside, then locks the door. Indignant, he tries to pick open the lock with a paper clip, unsuccessfully.
It’s his turn to do the tricking: He talks as though Jong-soo has returned, which draws Ra-im outside, at which point he pushes his way into the room. Before she can shove him out again, he pushes her into bed, holding her to him, and tells her firmly to go to sleep.
Ra-im puts up a struggle, threatening first and then pleading for him to let her go. He doesn’t loosen his grip, and eventually she settles down and stares up at Joo-won for a long beat.
After a charged moment of looking at each other — do you hear that crackling? It’s the tension — Joo-won holds her even tighter and starts reciting his old familiar refrain, the one he used to ground himself in reality whenever his feelings (or hormones) got away from him. Only this time, his voice breaks and takes on a desperate tinge as he recites, over and over.
The next morning, they head straight to the doctor’s office after Joo-won wraps his business meeting. Having assumed he was faking his pain, Ra-im is surprised to hear the doctor declare that the injury was fairly severe.
Joo-won’s mother calls Dr. Lee (Ji-hyun) to ask about Joo-won’s medication, ignoring Ji-hyun’s comment about patient confidentiality and shrilly demanding to know the truth. Ji-hyun is spared a knock-down drag-out fight about medical ethics because Mom receives word that Joo-won was injured, and that Ra-im had been with him.
Ra-im has another stunt training session with Oska, who drives her home afterward. However, he recognizes the chauffeured car parked nearby, and guesses what’s happening. Warning Ra-im to stay away until he calls, he hurries inside — where Mom waits in disgust with a nervous Ah-young.
He tries to get his aunt to leave, but like she’s going to listen to him. Ra-im appears at the door (argh, does she not listen, ever?), and that gets Mom’s hackles up. Oska defends her, but it doesn’t help that Mom’s just found the box of Joo-won’s boxers — the ones he “returned” to Ra-im — and she dumps the box over Ra-im’s head.
Ra-im tries to explain about a misunderstanding, but there’s no easy way to explain Joo-won’s sparkly underpants, and Mom rails against Ra-im’s parents for bringing her up poorly, and raising her to mooch off a rich man.
It’s that low blow that lands with her, and Ra-im says with tears in her eyes that it’s true Joo-won likes her, and that she has developed feelings for him as well — but no matter, because she won’t date him now, no matter what, because he’s not someone she’d dishonor her parents to be with. Crying in earnest, Ra-im says that her father was an outstanding person, and demands that Mom take those words back.
Not bloody likely. Instead, Mom spits out that she can do a lot worse. Yeah, I believe you, viper lady. Finally, Oksa loses his temper and forces his aunt out. When he comes back to check on Ra-im, she’s sobbing her heart out, crumpled on the ground with Ah-young attempting to comfort her.
Hearing that his mother paid a visit to Ra-im, Joo-won immediately heads to Ra-im’s house, and then the action school, to no avail. He then confronts his mother angrily, asking her to back off Ra-im.
Mom declares that she knows he’s taking pills, which to her is a Big Fucking Deal — because of how it would look to the world, of course. Nice of her to care about her son’s health, isn’t it? If word got out that the LOEL president was hopped up on crazy pills, it would look mighty bad.
Mom says the one bit of wisdom she’s probably ever spouted in her life, in telling Joo-won to go for the relationship if he likes her so much. At his astonishment, she points out that he’s not actually fighting with her over this — he’s fighting with himself.
But if he chooses Ra-im, if he marries her and has children with her, he’ll have to give up everything. Mom may eventually accept the child, but Ra-im will never be allowed one step into their hallowed halls. So if he thinks he can be content with only love to sustain him, by all means, go for it.
Finally! Mom graduates from Mere Plot Device and Angstmaker Extraordinaire™ to voice of (spiteful, malicious) reason.
Joo-won returns to Ra-im’s door, this time knowing she’s inside because he can hear her phone ringing. She refuses to answer the door, and in the morning finds him still outside — he sits in his car, having waited through the night.
Joo-won tries to say something, but he admits he doesn’t know how to go about apologizing. If he’s looking for a break, she’s not about to cut him one — not when this is more proof of his arrogant privilege. Why can’t he do something everyone else knows how to do? She’s forever apologizing, and yet he doesn’t even know how.
Ra-im tells him she has to keep living her life in that space where his mother degraded her and her family — so he ought to leave her to her own pathetic life, and return to his fairy tale. She walks away battling tears.
Meanwhile. LOEL is holding its annual VVIP party that night, which Seul plans to attend as part of her patented Piss Oska Off Revenge Plan.
After spending all day in a broody fit, Joo-won comes roaring up to the action school. Ra-im quickly asks Jung-hwan to say she’s not here, but Joo-won knows it’s an excuse and shouts aloud into the empty gym that she’s a coward for hiding, that he’s hardly even begun, that he won’t give up. That if she’s going to reject him, she ought to at least take his calls to tell him so.
Jong-soo comes up to her and points out that Joo-won has a point, and that hiding is the worst option. She bows her head but doesn’t emerge from hiding, and spends the day hunched in the locker room lost in thought. She reads over the string of texts Joo-won sends her, each worried in tone, asking her to answer.
After sitting like that for hours, she finally makes a decision and heads out, arriving at Joo-won’s compound that evening.
It’s not till she’s outside his house that she realizes there’s a party going on. From outside, she sees Joo-won making the rounds, smiling and greeting his guests, and the scene hammers in her status as an outsider (literally) looking in (again, literally) on the unattainable world inside.
Remembering Joo-won’s reaction to her shabby safety-pinned bag earlier, she glances down at her clothes, so unsuitable for this setting.
She hesitates when Joo-won calls, and finally decides to leave, unseen. However, Oska comes walking up at this moment, interrupting her escape.
He notices that she’s freezing and invites her to his house for a warm drink. He urges her to make her presence known to Joo-won, but she’s feeling self-conscious about her appearance and anxiously declines.
That’s no problem: Oska declares himself her fairy godmother (heh) for the night and calls in a styling team to fix her up.
And so it’s a very different, very glammed-up Ra-im who makes quite an entrance at the party, on Oska’s arm. (Ha Ji-won looks hot, but let’s just say that this moment might have had more dramatic impact had Ra-im and Oska not been wearing the same hairstyle.)
Seul glares — surprised, and also peeved to be upstaged just after declaring her intent to be the queen of every event — while Joo-won looks on in a mix of jealousy and shock.
COMMENTS
Is it me, or is the conflict getting really repetitive? I really liked much of this episode, but when you stop to think of what really went down in the big conflict scenes, it seems like the answer is, not much. The acting really kills the moments, whether it’s Joo-won’s viper of a mother being her poisonous self, or Ra-im being torn down by these hoity-toity folks, or Joo-won fighting with himself. But the actual facts of the matter? They’ve been long established and aren’t really changing. Yeah, class differences separate them. We got it ten episodes ago, thanks.
In that respect, Secret Garden has always felt like a bit of an antique, premise-wise — something out of a prior age that has been dressed in modern clothing, but hasn’t actually updated its themes or motifs accordingly. It’s the classic mistress dilemma — the woman refuses to be a kept woman, but the man refuses to marry her because his wife must be his social “equal.”
I get this conflict if we’re talking about, say, 19th-century British aristocracy, or 16th-century Joseon classism, or old-timey fairy tales. But it’s a stretch here in modern times. Chaebol families are the closest Korea has to a modern aristocracy and the thematic parallels generally work, but not perfectly, which is why these increasingly dramatic classist clashes are starting to wear thin.
Warning: Rant ahead. Regarding the bed scene —
This scene makes me so mad, because I’m so conflicted about it and it’s aggravating that I even feel torn because I know I should just hate it outright, but I realize the chemistry is sizzling and our couple is just so damn electric together. But I can’t enjoy it either, because the moment is just all kinds of wrong.
Yes, he’s hot, and yes, I love Hyun Bin — who wouldn’t want to be aggressively courted by him? But the fact remains that in this situation, a man tricks a woman, forces his way into her room, ignores her repeated protests, shoves her onto a bed, and restrains her body while holding her close. True, he doesn’t attempt any further bodily violations… but really, isn’t that enough? It’s already assault. The fact that he’s a dreamboat doesn’t diminish the ick factor for me.
Perhaps you can argue that Ra-im actually likes him, that her resistance fades, that she’s actually okay with it. But she says no over and over, and struggles, and asks him to get off her. It resembles a lot of the “forced seduction” scenarios of old romance novels, the kind of scenes that romanticized rape (hey, the hero got the heroine to like it, therefore his brute force was justified) — but which are, tellingly, no longer considered acceptable.
This is so close to the whole “She was asking for it” argument that gets thrown around, the lame defense of “It’s not assault because she liked it, honest.” I’m just… really, really torn about this moment because I want to like it, in fact I do sort of see the appeal and that drives me nuts. Because I also hate it. The very fact that Joo-won IS so appealing is not a mitigating factor but in fact an exacerbating one — it blurs the lines so that you want to cut him some slack, and that does everyone a grave disservice.
I’m more irritated with the drama itself than I am with Joo-won the character, because it’s one thing for a flawed character to act in stupid ways. But it’s a whole other thing for a drama to put forth this scenario and then romanticize it as sexy and moving, putting an uncomfortable glossy sheen on a situation that at its core is deeply problematic. Even if I hadn’t personally known friends (yes, plural) who were raped by men who claimed after the fact, “I thought you wanted it,” it would be hugely upsetting. Oh, it’s okay to assault a woman if she likes you back? Okay, then. Swoon.
But still: Urg, drama, you just ruined Joo-won for me! He’d been teetering on the brink for a while, but had finally won me over with the awesome watching-her-sleeping scene in the beginning of the episode. I don’t know if I can go back to rooting for him now — you can’t un-sour milk, can you?
RELATED POSTS
- Secret Garden: Episode 12
- Secret Garden: Episode 11
- Secret Garden: Episode 10
- Secret Garden: Episode 9
- Secret Garden: Episode 8
- Secret Garden: Episode 7
- Secret Garden: Episode 6
- Secret Garden: Episode 5
- Secret Garden: Episode 4
- Secret Garden: Episode 3
- Secret Garden: Episode 2
- Secret Garden: Episode 1
Tags: featured, Ha Ji-won, Hyun Bin, Kim Sa-rang, Philip Lee, Secret Garden, Yoon Sang-hyun
![[K-drama Treasure Hunt] Heart-fluttery bottle opening](http://d263ao8qih4miy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Kdrama-treasure-hunt.png)
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151 Aleck
December 27, 2010 at 1:11 AM
Ah yes, the whole "she's not really struggling THAT much so she MUST like it" defense.
As a guy, I find it disturbing that so many women are letting it slide off because they seem to have some weird fetish fantasy of a hot guy unwaveringly pushing himself onto them. In real life if this happened to a friend of theirs, I bet they would be the first to tell their friend to dump the asshole and maybe even report it but nope, in kdrama reality, it's okay since it's HOT.
I watched that episode with my girlfriend and I think she has the same conundrum as you JV. But having been raised to learn that no means no, no matter how much you think it means yes, I really can't stand to watch this drama and Hyun Bin's character. I guess I'll just stick to watching episodes of Smile, You (yeah, backlog and gf wants to watch it) instead.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 3:36 AM
Woot! I'm so glad to read your response. It shows that despite retarded posts by even other females saying "maybe she means yes when she says no" we are still making progress in the world with men. Now to work on women and make them realize that they are perverted if they like this kind of S&M stuff, not that they can't be perverts (I'm all for it with a "safe" word) but just so that they know it.
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sunandmoon
December 27, 2010 at 10:18 AM
Using "retarded" to mean "stupid" degrades people with mental disabilities. Something to think about as well. Thanks.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 7:22 PM
Thanks for that note. However, mental retardation has historically indicated an IQ of less than 70 aka "stupid." I realize that many like to be PC but the fact of the matter is that the term actually indicates lesser/delayed intelligence regardless of whether or not it stems from a disability. As such, I stand by my use of the word.
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sunandmoon
December 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM
Sorry, but where did women who are not offended by the scene say they have a sexual fantasy/fetish of being forced by a man? There are some here who have said they have been raped in real life, but don't see the parallels in this scene. There are others who don't like the idea of force in general, but can understand this scene in the context of the story and non-Western culture. There are those who see exaggerated, over-the-top acts as part of the theatrical translation of life to television. And then of course there are women with different opinions.
Presuming that women are motivated by their sexuality and putting words in their mouths and generalizing them -- that's also chauvinism. You're entitled to your opinion, but you don't have to go there.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 7:27 PM
I don't know about Aleck but I'm guessing that he's referring to the people who actually like the scene, not just tolerate it.
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Crazymoonyfan
December 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM
Thank you!!!!! A "no" is a "no"....nothing more...nothing less. How much she struggled is not the point. Seriously, in kdrama land, I found forced kiss and forced hug scenes were bad enough.....now what??? forced bed scene.... Okay, what's next???????? they made it sound like it's okay if you're cute.......iNOOOO....it's not....even it's Binnie....
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152 swimmingrose
December 27, 2010 at 1:22 AM
I love these dramabean recaps and I've been reading them all throughout this series but I really really wish I didn't read this review :( rape and other such disgusting acts were the furthest things from my mind when watching that episode/that scene...
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suh
December 27, 2010 at 6:01 AM
I know :( This is the first time i read a recaps and i wish I didn’t .
For me That episode was one of the best so for , There were a lot of great scenes , especially for R , it is unfair to focus on negative thing and ignore every thing else
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DRAMADDICT4ever
December 27, 2010 at 7:18 AM
I know, I wish I would not have read this recap,because I love the episode so much!!!!!
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Okie Dokie
December 27, 2010 at 10:57 AM
But you can still love the episode even with the recaps. It's just another point of view. Something to chew on. I love a lot of things that JB and GF or others may rag on. It doesn't change the fact that it resonated with me. So just continue to love and read for another point of view. Or for the pretty pictures they also post for us. =)
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nitnotzz
December 27, 2010 at 6:15 PM
Thank God I've been warned about this recap issue in another forum before I read it! I skipped the rant part entirely... :D
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anon
December 27, 2010 at 6:22 PM
lol...lucky;)
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153 Onnai
December 27, 2010 at 1:32 AM
Thanks javabeans for recap as always. but please give some appreciation where is due. this is a very good drama but people r hating it because u dont like bed scene. u may say that its your own opinion and it should not bother us. but many people rate a drama as per your view. in the end, it does affect readers: ) anyway thanks again for wonderful work. love u always
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154 Linda165
December 27, 2010 at 1:33 AM
Hey JB, I wish you could find an excerpt of the script and post it, just like you did with Que Sera Sera's BIG scene on episode 9 :)
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155 Linda165
December 27, 2010 at 1:53 AM
Also, 5hat was the cutest fight for a spot to sleep since Sungkyunkwan Scandal.
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Ladymoonstone143
December 27, 2010 at 6:57 AM
lol...totally agree with you...
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156 really
December 27, 2010 at 2:00 AM
Please watch it with an open mind. Seems like your feminist side gets the better of you this time. Peace.
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Fay
December 28, 2010 at 9:55 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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157 sandy
December 27, 2010 at 2:07 AM
seriously...I'm loving the bed scenes...I don't see anything to hate....sigh......
I think it's rather touching.......
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158 elexis
December 27, 2010 at 2:07 AM
I got sooo angry at the bed scene! And what makes me even angrier is Ra Im's reaction to it! Really, a woman that was just kicking and screaming and bargaining to be left alone just gave up and instead mooned over the guy? And THAT IS OKAY? Really? I understand man are asses but I was liking that Ra Im is a modern independent reasonable woman and in that scene she was just... not. No matter how much you like the guy, no one should be treated like that. Too bad for Hyun Bin's character - it's already too late to drag him out of the hole the writers have been digging for him... At least I can stare at Hyun Bin's goodness for the rest of the series...
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December 27, 2010 at 2:33 AM
In kdrama how many times do you hear a line like this
"If you don't show up, you dead!" or "pick up the phone or you dead?" or "dare you look at other woman/man? you are soo dead!"
Does it mean they will be killed if they don't pick up the phone or glance over another man/woman? never.
Same goes to the way Ra-im threaten Joo Won. Does that mean she's serious? in some level yes, Does that mean she doesn't really pushing him? again in some level I think so too.
Why is she like that? Coz she feels complicted about Joo won.
Why Joo Won like that? Coz he's a man child. He won't even think as far as some of us about his action.
He's prolly only think by doing that he gets to sleep side by side with Ra-im, end of story.
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ge
December 27, 2010 at 9:52 AM
agree...
this the best episode ever!!
i didnt think the negative side before I read this recaps and the comments..
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159 SOO-IN-LURVE
December 27, 2010 at 2:34 AM
Had been waitin for it for somwat ages!!!
just luv dis DRAMA!!!I am OBSESSED with it!!! can't wait any longer for da subs and for the nxt ep!!!!
THANX JB!!!!
SAnta i am realy dissapointed wid u... I asked Hyun bin/ Joo won but again you didn't give him to me!!! Still i give you few days u shud bring him to me!!!!
<3 hyun bin!!!!!
Though i am late HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!
Hope evry1 got their wishes fulfilled =)!!!!
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160 NoriPoni
December 27, 2010 at 2:35 AM
Personally I liked the bed scene.I don't think it was violation at all! And I can understand why is he a bit more aggressive.That's because Ra-Im always says no,no,no and he got enough. And when Ra-Im says no maybe she actually means yes on it xD I was happy to see them like this and that moment brought them closer to each other..^^
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HUH?
December 27, 2010 at 8:12 AM
I'm fine with the bed scene, I enjoyed watching it.
But
"I don’t think it was violation at all! And I can understand why is he a bit more aggressive.That’s because Ra-Im always says no,no,no and he got enough. "
The logic here is a little disturbing, unless I'm missing a step.
No. No. No, (in general) does not mean redouble force.
If this is what the drama is teaching, you have made Javabeans point.
And might have forced me to reconsider my position on the scene.
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ar_arguably romantic
December 27, 2010 at 8:47 AM
I'm with you on this.
I didn't think it was that bad either and thought the characters/situation were layered just enough to stop short of offensive (though still a bit discomforting), BUT reading NoriPoni's comment and a few others similar to it has also given me a reason to be really disturbed by this scene.
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Fay
December 28, 2010 at 9:57 PM
"That’s because Ra-Im always says no,no,no and he got enough."
Are you serious right now?
omg, i can't.
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161 jenaddict
December 27, 2010 at 2:37 AM
Thnx for the recaps !!!!!
I was wondering if this is the only site tht recap dramas. It will be interessting to read other Bloggers opiniion.....
Anyone knws any other site?
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162 Jewels
December 27, 2010 at 2:39 AM
Regarding Oskas hairstyle... I believe that was suppose to be a joke. Remember when he was getting his hair done and was complaining about the ahjumma having the same style as himself and ask the stylist why she said it's most likely she got her hair done there too. Pon intended we all know that's Ra ims hair was no doubt done by his stylist also hence both of them sporting the same similar hair style.
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163 Northern Star
December 27, 2010 at 2:41 AM
I am for the bed scene.
Nicely done, and funny in so many ways.
Too bad others were offended by it.
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164 tryingtoberesponsible adult
December 27, 2010 at 2:46 AM
!! the first 10 min of episode 14 was totally on a different track.. so much that I asked my screen "huh? am I watching the same show??"
and it was embarrassing watching the KISS!
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165 d-addict
December 27, 2010 at 3:17 AM
On a totally different note and just IMO, I don't think the classism stance of the drama is very archaic in this case. I dunno...I'm not making any sweeping generalizations but I DO know some (social climbing?) male friends who wouldn't just court just 'any' girl (like or no like) if she's not in the same class (socially or economically) as theirs. The rules regarding differentiation between classes is obsolete/nonexistent or...at the very least, not as rigid now (compared to antiquated times) but they do still exist. There aren't policies the government/church impose against people marrying outside their class but SNOBBERY still exists, doesn't it? So, for me, it's not a ancient, unrelatable notion at all. I've had non-relationships with people where you sort of feel something developing but you're also aware things cannot progress very far because of social/economic differences. And it does hurt even if everything is left unspoken and people just eventually move on to other things and grow with other people.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 3:38 AM
I agree with you on that point. It's an old trope but one that is still effective because the basic premise still holds in real life in much of the world.
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d-addict
December 27, 2010 at 4:22 AM
if even average men (and women) refuse to marry below their income bracket and worry about diluting their (albeit) limited fortunes, how much more Joo won who has many many more things he had to protect? it's a state of things that, if you're the one found wanting, is something self-pity inducing if you wanna wallow about the state-of-the-world too much. but, generally, people don't have time to emote over stuff like that. but it must suck to be around someone you like but know that you two will never have a future because you know he'll never ask you to marry him (or if you're the girl, you'll never say yes) for abovestated reasons.
just another parallel. sometimes, you become friends with someone whose views almost 100% mirror your own but when you find out they're of another race, status, etc. you'd still like to keep them as 'friends' just that they have to stay in the cubbyholes you've built for them in your mind.
Which is why SG resonates with me so much. I appreciate that the show places more importance in the interaction between Joo won and Ra im's SOULS than their bodies (with the concurrent demands and social/economic positions of each). The first switch, for me, was a cosmic MO just to get them to INTERACT with each other (those conversations that were conducted in private) without the external pressure their 'faces' carried. In the end, I hope Joo won will learn beyond reasonable doubt that while he can find with many many other women the financial, political, economic clout he felt he needed, at the end of the day, the SOUL he most wants to keep in his life is Ra im, with all her imperfections and mismatched packaging.
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Jomo
December 27, 2010 at 6:02 AM
Agree totally, even in the US, the land of opportunity.
At the high school level, kids don't interact with kids out of their income bracket that much. In my area, the private high schools attract those of wealth, while public schools are for almost everyone else. Now separate them more by putting them in sports like, skiing, which poor kids can't afford, or crew (rowing), which is also expensive.
At the college level, the really high tuition colleges manage to keep out the "riff raff" by charging so much, so the same holds true at that age. Those on academic or athletic scholarships don't automatically become friends with the richer kids just because they are on the same campus. The frats and sororities are a further separation.
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166 arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 3:26 AM
As a prior rape counselor, survivor of assault and friend/family member to many victims, I totally get the conflicted feelings that Javabeans and many others have regarding the character of Joo Won. I think that they are conflicted because I don't think that it is overreacting to have this discussion. It's nice that girls and women can later reflect on such actions. Hopefully it will help some avoid undesirable situations.
However, I also have to agree with everything that Maria has stated before me. With that said, I don't know why JB and others weren't turned off and disgusted by his behavior previously. He has already assaulted, stalked and harassed Ra-im numerous times. This character's arrogance and subsequent actions are very similar to that of Doumyouji Tsukasa in Hana Yori Dango. I say Doumyouji and not Jun Pyo from Boys Before/Over Flowers because the actions of the character in the drama are VERY toned down when compared to those in the anime and manga. These characters are NOT nice guys. By the way, I happen to really like HYD/BBF for the redemption and turn around that the character made and I believe, like Maria, that the characterization of these NOT nice guys was important. I'm actually proud that they hammer home just how messed up this guy really is in a way that finally made some people pay attention.
However, if one liked these characters previously without true understanding and only just now woke up, I'd be disappointed in myself first, the character second. For this reason, I totally respect and admire Lahlita for her steadfastness. You go, girl! I have to empathize (not just sympathize) with her last sentiment. Drama girls (Kdrama, TWdrama, Jdorama) NEVER seem to go with the right guy. Instead, the shows are persistent in showing how girls come to love these unloveable guys. I guess that is where the appeal comes in. It must be as I continue to watch them. Still, I have a whole facebook thread dedicated to my lovely runner-ups.
Alternatively, one can rationalize the behavior, insisting that it is just a show or some people have relationships like that. One can also be upset at the societal stereotypes perpetuated by these producers, writers, heck, the entire entertainment industry but the fact remains that us fangirls are the ones driving it by eating these characters up. Men, and rapists, are not the main consumers of this media. As previous examples like "Gone With The Wind" show, the "rape is love" trope has been around way before this drama. It it didn't sell, it wouldn't continue to be made.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 3:28 AM
Grrr! I wish I had looked over this better. Not being able to edit makes me look like such a dweeb. The sentence "I think that they are conflicted because I don’t think that it is overreacting to have this discussion" should merely read "I don’t think that it is overreacting to have this discussion." Thanks.
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diadda
December 27, 2010 at 4:20 AM
Hi five! on the edit button.
I understood what you meant and agree though.
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crebold
December 27, 2010 at 5:14 AM
I do get Girl Fridays point, i think its not about the show having scenes like these. I think its because the show likes to turn those moment when Joo Won forces himself on Ra Im into romantic moments. That somehow everything is fine if Ra IM just gives in, that its okay because deep down it Ra Im wants it. It trivializes the act.
Just like how koreans seem to find that whole Foam kiss romantic. The guy basically ambushed her for a kiss, they have no real relationship with each other, so why is that even considered a romantic gesture, when in any reality its sexual harassment.
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teapot
December 27, 2010 at 9:16 PM
You make good points. Actually, I have been more bothered in previous episodes by the JW-RI relatioship that has just been too darn close to looking like abusive relationships I've seen firsthand. I've also seen others comment on similar feelings. For some reason, the comments on this episode really took off, where earlier ones just fell flat. Maybe its not just the bed scene, but the build up. Maybe its the safety in knowing that there are others who share a common voice. Me, I'm wondering if anyone else is profoundly moved that we're having this kind of discussion on a drama blog.
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Fay
December 28, 2010 at 10:07 PM
I've been steadily bothered with JW's character as he does more and more things that showcase his utter lack of a sensitivity chip. But it's apparent scenes such as this one that really drive home how messed up this courtship is at times. I don't think it's fair to say that people who just now noticed his strange behavior, or in your words "only just now woke up" are also at blame. It's good that wrongs are noticed at any point of time, if the person at least sees it as a wrong eventually and does not go on thinking everything is okay.
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167 Stephanie
December 27, 2010 at 4:01 AM
I actually am okay with that scene. 1) I don't think he ever thinks that it's fine just because she likes it cus he does not think for others. 2) He is a guy who always expects to get what he wants. So, naturally, (like imposing on her everyday) he would want to fulfill his physical attraction too. 3) But he knows he cannot cus he would be giving up too much. Thus, the way the bed scene ended.
To me, as long as it is not out of character I'm fine with it. I can't say I'd love his character in real life. But within the boundaries of the drama, I'd love him. I mean if I really were to judge a drama based on my principles, a lot of them will fail miserably. But drama is not about my principles but the conflict, the relationships, the emotions...etc. Like I am totally against sex before marriage but I actually liked, almost loved the way World's Within treated it.
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pohonphee
December 27, 2010 at 5:32 AM
Your comment makes me think: If the Joo-won's character is tone down and becoming flatter like Jung-in in MSOAN with omitting all his abusive physical behavior toward Ra-im, would be all the people who start to hate Joo-won's character, like his character more or like SG more?
It is not like I mind all the rant hee...
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168 Jo
December 27, 2010 at 4:28 AM
It's so painful to read some of the comments....this ep has opened a lot of old wounds so sorry for those of you who are hurting
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169 izzie
December 27, 2010 at 4:28 AM
am confused as well with the mixed messages this show is sending the viewers. just as I'm still confused with the point of the body switch.
hehe... what if Jong-Soo actually came back and found them in that state and beat up Joo-Won for forcing himself on Ra-Im? JW will really have some physical injuries to whine about.
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samgetang
December 27, 2010 at 10:48 PM
izzie....howdy sistah? i just got back from the short holiday trip and i see our poor JB and other fellow SG ravers and ranters here up in arms with the controversial "bed scene".
surely, the messages are beginning to get confusing as you say. and like you, now Im wondering what's all the point of even the body switch if nothing changed between the two of them and now it seems like its getting worse (i guess it should get worse, haha! after that man-handling episode in bed...). I also wish Jong-soo found them in that state. Must be interesting what he would do/say if he found himself confronted with that scene... :-)
but based on the other responses here Im thinking some of the female population in fact loved being man-handled just for the thrill? Or maybe its okay as long as its not done to you or your loved ones?
anyway, I have not been at the receiving end of such treatment but do sympathize with those who have had to endure abuses that were sugar-coated as affections just gone wild (with passion). It sounds thrilling but reality bites as Ive heard from friends who have been victims of such, willing or otherwise. in the end they were even able to rationalize physical and psychological abuse from their mates as acceptable even expected. and most started as something as innocent as this scene.
this kdrama sure treads on dangerous waters if it treats this controversial issue as just one of its antics to generate laughs or inspire romance. the bed scene certainly is in keeping with JW's character so far; there is no ill-intent since i'm sure the writers plan this to be sweet/romantic but i'm also more concerned with how their relationship is progressing/maturing. this turn of events surely brings it a few steps backwards if ra im was in her right mind. awww! :-)
but i guess, neurosis is contagious, hahaha! ;-)
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izzie
December 28, 2010 at 7:31 AM
Doin' great, moony-loony sis! ;) How about you? I hope you had a great time during your vacation. :)
I'm equally amazed and amused at how the debate over a single scene snowballed and crossed over to the next episode's recap. But we can't help but join in, right? :) When I read JB's comment, and the visitors' as well, the issue stuck like a mind itch that I have to scratch. Even I got to question myself which side I am really on, given the issues being thrown back on Ra-Im because of her violent tendencies towards Joo-Won. But I just can't get rid of the bad vibe of the bed scene in my head.
I agree that the writer didn't intend the scene to condone a moral foul, but mistakes can be made even with the best intentions. And to me, it is important that even at the slightest hint, things that can lead to greater damage should be pointed out, especially if overlooked - like you've said that there are relationship violence that start out as innocent gestures. And in this drama, there is the tendency to overlook that problem, unintentionally or otherwise, or even forgive, because of its general theme and the overall movement of the story.
"this kdrama sure treads on dangerous waters if it treats this controversial issue as just one of its antics to generate laughs or inspire romance."
I agree. However, the degree to which the scene-of-debate is controversial is as arguable as the message of the scene itself. And the degree to which the waters that the show treads on is dangerous depends on how vigilant, forgiving, or passive the audience are. But the show shouldn't forget, too, its inherent potential to influence.
As one who has been working for a media company for ten years now, I can say that reaching out to televiewers, whether to entertain or inform, is not an easy undertaking. It is a power and responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Media has the power to shape the collective minds of a society. A perfect example of this is how hallyu was catapulted to worldwide recognition and appreciation, and made many of us love all things Korean. I don't think that as many people as who do now would be concerned to learn about the recent news on the conflicts of the two Koreas if it happened ten years ago.
Media can change a culture - whether by slow progression, or overnight, depending on the potency of the sender and/or the message. Although we say that we can separate fiction from reality, it can't be denied that frequent exposure to fiction somehow influences our reality, as evident in the ardent fans of sci-fi and fantasy stories who decide to behave like they are part of the fictional stories and spend money for cosplay - something that non-fans often view as irresponsible and childish.
And of course, you know very well how fashion trends are spread - through media. ;) The same thing with how music-hinged subcultures such as hip-hop, gangsta, grunge, and emo were propagated. Some people love these trends and subcultures, some people don't. It is no different at how dramas influence our lives.
Depending on the packaging, sometimes small wrongs can be woven within the right things and come unnoticed.
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samgetang
December 29, 2010 at 8:08 PM
Hi Moony Loony Sistah! Izzie, thanks so much for sharing your valuable opinion/insights on the controversial bed scene. You couldn't have said it more clearly, calmly and with more level-headedness.
You would know first-hand the power, influence and responsibility of media as it shapes the society's perception and worldview.
It is good to know that people develop critical thinking through the viewing of these kdramas. I am energized to see guests here in DB voicing out their opinions be it for or against or another. Sometimes things get rough and dirty but overall there is an openness to hear out and weigh differing points of view. But it is also not surprising to see some fiercely defend their points of view as it concerns something that they value highly such as women's rights and safety. I wouldn't have it any other way. It is the freedom to voice out our own opinions with a degree of anonymity that draws us to online forums and discussions. But it is also in this environment that we need to be more careful and thoughtful because all sorts of ideas and values flourish that may not be beneficial especially for the youth who are still impressionable. It is the responsibility now of the family and trusted friends to take care of their own in providing foundation and absolute truths/values for the person to anchor his/her own view of things and evaluate external stimuli/information.
I believe the thing that propelled South Korean cinema and entertainment industry to global popularity is its nation's foundation of values like love of country and family, sacrifice, perseverance and respect among others. The technology and marketing are essential but secondary. If they leave this higher path they will also leave the path of excellence in the same way we see the hegemons left the path of their ancestors. And to see changing values in their cinema gives me a sense that somehow this indicates significant changes going on as well in their nation's awareness/values that comes with progress and independence.
The reality of life is that we should be able to live amongst people who may or may not agree with our own values, opinions. H/ever we also need to be able to affect/influence our own culture and not just passively
take in things without thinking/filtering/rejecting, if needed.
You are so right, izzie, the media churning out these cultural products are not excused from the responsibility of affecting their audience for the good but at the same time every individual is also responsible for their own response. But with our human limitations comes failed attempts to achieve what we are supposed to think, feel and act as mature and responsible individuals. There is hope only because there is a God who is over and above all of our flimsy attempts and who, we know, rewards the good and punishes the bad. And so we can trust that all things will come together for the good of those who choose to depend on God's mercy and grace.
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170 pohonphee
December 27, 2010 at 5:00 AM
Because every body's rants, about the bed scene, I read the comment section 1st before, the recap, woot!
Anyhow, thanks JB for the recap (I'm not SG addict but this is on the top of my k drama list), thanks to all the commenters for the bed scene and anything. It is amusing me how every one try to defend his/her opinion all out. Doesn't matter which side he/she is at, I really appreciate his/her comment and enjoy the reading. And which side am I? :) I'm the one who dislike a male lead role who always yells and has a command tone every time he tell people or the main girl to do as he wish. So you can guess which side I am at bed scene, force-kissing, and such things?
So much different Dramabeans site one years ago the 1st time I visited it, and Dramabeans right now. More people come visit, and the comment section is heating up. But I can not love this site any less. For people who dislike the bed scene "discussion" and said it is just a drama for God's shake, no it isn't, it is not just about K drama. That what I think Dramabeans suppose to be: It makes K drama become not just about K drama. So please rant over, ha, ha, ha i read them all
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171 jajami
December 27, 2010 at 6:40 AM
yeah am total agree with your comment about the bed scene...kind of frustrating... i mean looking to each other for a long time ,the passion and craving with each other its happening at that time and they can figure it out how they really feel each other but then KJW blown it away with reciting of kimsoroo..
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172 Twilight
December 27, 2010 at 7:06 AM
I think that bed scene was ok.. although in some Western culture that is truly considered a sexual harrassment. But I agree with some people here that it is within JoWoon's "man child" character. Ra Im is a tomboyish type and an action stunt woman, she would have beaten him to a pulp if he goes any further than holding her.
I guess Ra Im is also mystified and curious by JoWoon's arrogance and persistence the same way how Jo Woon is attracted to her "girl next door" persona .
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173 Kitty
December 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM
I am so addicted to this drama! I just wanted to say thank you for the translation! Now I understand this episode a little better! Anyhow, this is just my opinion about the bed scene so don't hate me please. I find the bed scene so adorable and sweet! I kept on replaying it over and over again because I just love how JW slowly opens his eyes and looks at Ra-Im. It's absolutely plantonic! I don't know why you guys are so sensitive and not be open minded about this. I don't see anything wrong with it. Don't you guys see that the director is trying to give us more intimate moments between the two main characters? I really think that they're trying to make this scene a little comical with JW being persistent with wanting to cuddle and sleep with Ra-Im, that's all. C'mon guys, we're adults here. It's so clear that he didn't have any bad intentions. He just wanted to cuddle with her when he sleeps. Who wouldn't want to take this opportunity when no one is around and be together with the one you like/love? Their love is childish and puppy like to me. Think about this guys, Ra-Im is a stuntwoman so she isn't weak; therefore JW has to be bold with her. It's more intense for her.
Anyhow, my point is f you guys pay attention to when JW pushes Ra-Im down the bed, he just lays down and holds her immediately, not forcing to kiss or do anything that's sexual to her so you can't say that it's rape or ect... I dont' know why you guys look at it differently. My husband does that to me all the time to act a little chidlish and it's my natural response to repulse (exactly like Ra-Im) but we just laugh after that because we both know we only want to be playful and its totally harmless. Trust me, I can tell when it's a forceful sexual act because I was forced once by a crazy Ass-----.
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174 unees
December 27, 2010 at 7:40 AM
I agree with watchumlots n many of the others. The characters are not well-drawn according to me. I had huge expectations for the drama when I heard Ra-Im was a stuntwoman and that there would be a body swap. But she is such a weak character. All the threats she makes against Joo-won are empty threats. One would expect a woman like her to be strong, to hold her own against the self-centered and neurotic guy who stalks her and tells her he loves her but treats her like his toy.
Why is it that in many of the k-dramas i have watched, the strong women turn out to be such wimps in the end? That their characters are never allowed to develop beyond the banter? A woman like Ra-Im lets the guy get away with the forced kiss n the forced cuddle just because deep inside, she likes him?? That's unacceptable for me in any form. Wouldn't that play into their relationship dynamics where he will decide for ever where the line should be drawn? Even if you are attracted to someone (man/woman), would you let that person do something to you that you feel uncomfortable with?
I don't think that we should draw a strict line between fiction and reality, because inevitably it is the so-called fiction that shapes our reality. So when something, be it a drama, a book or a film, is sending the wrong message across to impressionable minds, I am glad people are pointing it out.
I am glad there are male viewers here who found the scene alarming. I am glad to know there are men like that out there.
Also, I feel so bad for the men in the "real" world who treat girls right to see how in dramas it is always the men who like to lord it over the girl who get the girl. Personally, I have always preferred the good guys to the bad guys, the Lee Sun Joons and Jae-Shins of this world to the Joo-Wons. No, I don't hate Joo-won as a character, but I feel they have not developed him, matured him in a certain sense, after these many episodes and even after a body-swap.
Coming to the body-swap, what was the point of the exercise if it did not make Joo-won change his mindset?? For most people, such an "out-of-body" experience should be enough to make them question so many things. But, unfortunately, not in this case. That is what infuriates me, that even after all the fuss over the body swap, things are proceeding just as before.
Ultimately, it also raises questions about why even the women writers keep on dishing out scenarios like the forced kiss n the bed scene knowing that they would be unacceptable in "real" life. I will never buy the argument that the audience are wise enough to know the difference. If you watch a thing many times over make-believing it is acceptable in "this context", it becomes a habit (as a wise character once said )and habits are hard to lose.
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twylah
December 27, 2010 at 7:52 AM
very very well said
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buhdoop
December 27, 2010 at 8:17 AM
Exactly, that forced kiss was worse enough. And now forced cuddle. Why is it so hard to like Joo-Won, because he does stuff like that.
I am ready for this melodrama part to end. I miss the fantasy romantic comedy part, but I am still hanging on to hope.
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Zie
December 27, 2010 at 9:28 AM
That what i thought about the forced kiss.. Not sure how others see it as but i was like O_o WTH when i saw that..
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175 twylah
December 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM
i'm with you in here JB, i am drawn to the romantic-crazed aspect of the chanting scene, but it doesn't excuse much of the 'forcing himself on her' aspect of it.
no matter how far the argument would go, someone has to say what has to be said. and you did.
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176 Josina
December 27, 2010 at 8:04 AM
Four pages of vigorous commenting and discussion: bravo Dramabeans!
It's exactly why this blog distinguishes itself from other kdrama blogs: yes it indulges the inner fangeek and provides insight into kdrama tropes and culture, but it also doesn't shy away from honest, substantive commentary - which we are free to agree or disagree with.
What we are discussing here touches upon cultural differences, the ambiguity of feminine and masculine roles, the role/responsibility of pop culture/media - all because of one scene spoken in a language I don't understand by actors who I was completely unaware of 4 months ago. Personally I think it's wonderful.
One of the previous comments was about the Secret Garden aspect - I intend to read the book fairly soon but I did have a look at the themes of the book (aka I Googled and found the Spark Notes). I'm curious to what extend the writer of the drama infuses her work with these themes and motifs.
Also, when I'm not distracted by the hair (nice visual pun), the track suits, and the gorgeous dresses (I liked the short number, hated the shoes), I think the architecture of the lodge is worth mentioning in this episode: I can't believe how distracted I am by the materials used when there's actually a major plot development going on :-)
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177 Hypatia
December 27, 2010 at 8:14 AM
I kind of disagree with you there JB... the scene in the bed was anything but a stereo-type... Yes, there has been plenty of similar scenes in cinematic history and in the history of romance novels I guess...:P social divide and yet the underlying chemistry that doesn't want to die, the rich man attempting to tame the hapless woman, the woman convincing herself that her struggle against him and his him-ness is genuine...we have seen this a zillion times. But this...this just uses the same exact situation and turns it into a very anticlimactic, almost comical scenario. Here is the rich man surrounded in his white luxury, who attempts to put on a raw masculinity but fails miserably because of his pervading metrosexuality. She is no hapless female, but a brawny one with a brain. Yes, they have the sizzling chemistry and yes he is trying to play all his cards to "own" her. However deep inside, he does not understand why she is unlike everything he has...his efforts in the bedroom did not come across as sexual desire; it felt like a childish effort to use force to literally 'own' something that does not want to be owned.
She on the other hand is definitely interested (who wouldnt, when you have such a charming, neurotic guy who alternates between being bewitched and being obnoxious). He is unlike all the male characters she reads in those film scripts; he is even unlike all the higly tricep-ed men she works with... and this is where it digresses from all the romance novels we have read. She is curious about his meticulousness, his primness, his childishness, his obstinacy. Yes, she does not use enough force in that scene like all her cinematic parallels when deep inside you know that she could knock him out any second. But to me, she seemed more like someone who knows that she can do that; and hence she uses enough to almost test how far he goes to be with her. It is not a man-taming-a-woman physical scene; rather I like to see it as part of this elaborate game they are playing...both are equals (maybe Ra im has more of an edge)...it is a game where they test each other... the game in general provides them with excuses to stay with each other.
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Josina
December 27, 2010 at 8:34 AM
"But this…this just uses the same exact situation and turns it into a very anticlimactic, almost comical scenario."
That's a very interesting interpretation of this scene, Hypatia. I'm thinking of a scene in episode 14 which would not only confirm this, but actually has Joo Won questioning Ra Im and us, the audience, how we 'read' his behaviour overal.
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Jomo
December 27, 2010 at 10:06 AM
I'm with you on this! Very nicely put:
she seemed more like someone who knows that she can do that; and hence she uses enough to almost test how far he goes to be with her.
How about this? She is so in the habit of fighting JW constantly, that she's in defense mode the whole time he is trying to break into her room.
Then he succeeds in getting her to look at him, and she stops fighting.
Suddenly, CHAN! There he is. Right there. This close.
You can see her processing the situation quickly.
It is the same face that stopped her breathing when he checked out her wound, did sit-ups into her personal space, stood toe to toe with her in the dressing room, kissed her, watched her sleep.
She likes this face, these arms. This person.
I liked the scene.
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peekabooo
December 27, 2010 at 9:36 PM
i cried on the last part of your comment... T_T
i can still see Ra-im's eyes looking intently at Joo-won's face. and Joo-won starts to chant his calming phrases to hold his emotions...
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178 fairy tale person
December 27, 2010 at 8:20 AM
i stick to my modern fairy-tale like version of story for this k-drama :) This K-drama is nice in its own way.. bit of mixtures of feel from The Little Mermaid, Alice in Wonderland, and Cinderella and of course I would like ending to be like that of the Cinderella marrying to the Prince and living happily ever after :) "JW's" and "Raim's" acting skills and facial expressions are great I think :) sooo sweet.
hmm I can't help wondering and worrying what's JW's connection with Raim's father could be..
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179 Archaenon
December 27, 2010 at 8:36 AM
I normally never have an issue with your recaps, but I do think the whole bed scene was overblown. Rape is the last thing that cross my mind, in fact it didn't cross my mind until I read it here.
I guess I don't have that , omg I can't protect myself complex. Flame me all you want commenters, but I think it was overblown.
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DRAMADDICT/4ever
December 27, 2010 at 9:16 AM
OMG!!! I thought I was the only one that felt the same way. I don't think that was Javanbeans intension to begin with because she did say she like the episode, but I feel some people used it as an excuse to analyze the scene and even related to a rape scenario which to me is plain ridiculous.
So yes, the whole bed scene was WAY OVERBLOW.
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180 silent of the lamb
December 27, 2010 at 8:46 AM
I agree with you...
this recap tainted my mind.....
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181 halycon
December 27, 2010 at 8:49 AM
Hello everybody here,
Can some kind soul please enlighten me where to download all the soundtracks to SG please?
Totally love the breathtaking chemistry between hyun bin and ji won and the music too!
Thanks in advance!! (:
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sparkly blue tracksuit
December 29, 2010 at 6:42 AM
http://www.mydramadiary.com/ost-part-1-for-hyun-bin-ha-ji-wons-new-drama-secret-garden.html
http://www.mydramadiary.com/secret-garden-ost-part-2.html
http://www.mydramadiary.com/secret-garden-ost-part-3.html
http://kpopexplorer.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/single-v-a-secret-garden-ost-part-4/
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halycon
January 2, 2011 at 6:17 AM
OMG thanks so much!!! (:
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182 Zie
December 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM
You know...... all this kind of remind me of a song... Love the way you lie part 2 by Rihanna featuring Eminem.. I don't know why but it does... >_<" I just listen to the song today and it remind me of the argument here...
And as for the bed scene... Part of me liking it but when i think about it.. if it happened to me in real life.. I'm sooo hating it. Not that something like this ever happened to me before but I'm all into this type of Manga.. where the main guy kind of treat the girl like that and we all like owh... so sweet. he only doing it because he loves her so much and just can't hide his feeling anymore.
But.. seriously, even if i like/love that kind of story line but if it happened in real life either to me or anyone... I would freak out! To be touch without consent is really something unbearable and immoral. No mean no. and i love a gentlemen and that was not a gentlemen-like.
I did not wish to comment on this actually but somehow i did and i rarely even comment on recaps and just usually reading it but this make me think....
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Zie
December 27, 2010 at 9:24 AM
and I still have to watch the episode to really judge it.. Can't wait for the sub.. ^^
and Javabean.. Thou, i never/rarely said this... Thank you for the recap! ^^
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mskololia
December 27, 2010 at 10:15 AM
You know…… all this kind of remind me of a song… Love the way you lie part 2 by Rihanna featuring Eminem.. I don’t know why but it does… >_<" I just listen to the song today and it remind me of the argument here…
I was going to post that video on Soompi after the "forced kiss" scene, but I have since opted out of that fangirlish taken over forum.
Here's another one for the JW-i-love-you-no-matter-what-you-do-you-frekking-hot-rich-boy-who-knows-nothing-about-life-yeah:
What it's like by Everlast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCZ1YteCv5M
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Okie Dokie
December 27, 2010 at 11:05 AM
after you posted your comment about it reminding you of "Love the way you lie" - it does! Probably not that violently, but I totally see what you're saying.
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183 majority-of-1
December 27, 2010 at 9:42 AM
Agree with JB on this one.
First of all though, I have a problem with the whole 'will follow you girl till you say yes coz i know you like me secretly' thing.
Such a thing may seem innocent on the surface but when repeated over time, does lead to some delusional men believing it.
I am from India and remember in one state I stayed, the movies were usually centred around the guy chasing the girl despite her protestations n finally the girl saying 'yes'.
There was a study which linked the high incidence of acid attacks on girls by spurned men there to the movies which encouraged men not to take 'no' for an answer. You might say this is an extreme version of a trivial thing. What I am saying is that the things we see on tv do influence us and shape the way we expect others to behave with us.
I haven't seen QSS, but remember watching two Hindi dramas with a similar premise. Both were about couples who hate each other forced into a marriage. The hero's transformation came about after d attempted rape when he understood what kind of a monster he was. As a kid, I couldn't understand the enormity of the whole thing n wondered why the hero underwent a change of heart. So far so good, u think.
However, in the second drama, the same thing was repeated but this time there was a rape. Everything else was the same. The change of heart once the guilt sinks in, the reconciliation between the couple. So, I am now wary of the whole thing. I wonder, if the first show had not done such a thing, would there have been a second show like this? For me, the first is therefore as guilty as the second.
SG might not have debased itself that way but I do not find anything romantic in Joo Won telling Ra Im he will 'jump her' if she protests. Ra Im also does his bidding strangely enough. That was one scene for her to truly display her overrated stunt skills, but she didn't. i know some of you might say it is all done as a joke. Joo Won knows Ra Im can overpower him easily enough. But isn't this the show where Joo Won beat Ra Im in a fight before? So this argument doesn't hold much water. Whatever, I would have atleast cheered for Ra Im if she had kicked him out of her room right then and berated him soundly( If I was Ra Im, I would have thought the guy a creep from then on). But, whatever!
So, here's to heroes who know when to take 'no' for an answer and also how to transform the 'no' into a 'yes' through their noble actions! Didn't Darcy show us this beautifully? He didn't go chasing after Elizabeth, breathing down her throat to turn her 'no' into a 'yes'. He gave her refusal its proper due, changed himself into a better man and the rest, as they say, is a 'beautiful' love story.
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In Response to the debate...
December 27, 2010 at 10:52 AM
"What I am saying is that the things we see on tv do influence us and shape the way we expect others to behave with us."
I think this is greatly put. When I first started watching Korean dramas I was greatly concerned with all the wrist grabbing, and the forceful ways the men would treat the woman to get them to 'understand their feelings'.
After watching these scenes, over and over, and just accepting it as a cultural difference, it really started to desensitize my usual feminist ways.
Luckily, I never got so far as to romanticize these actions, just stopped having a knee-jerking offended reaction to them.
However, watching Secret Garden has really given me bitter after-taste to JW's actions. I love the humor, but JW's advances and inability to understand that he's been rejected has gotten stale and almost offensive.
Though, I believe the blame doesn't just lie on this character, but also that of Ra-im's characterization. Just as I hated Joo Won's stalkerish advances, I equally hated Ra-im's weak and empty attempts to keep him from her.
People have been debating that as a stunt woman, she should be able to fight him off, but that is just physically. I think they are forgetting that abuse and assault is also psychological. And if anything, the show has been consistent in showing that Ra-im is really a meek character that overly apologizes, and that her self confidence isn't as strong as her physical self.
Even if her body has the muscles to push JW off her, Ra-im's mind still has to direct it to do so. And the drama has constructed her really as a weak woman, the total opposite of the stunt woman persona that some others see. At heart, the writers have made her an overly sensitive person that doesn't like rejection, especially from males. We can see this when she lies to Oska to seem less creepy, and when two of her male students leave the action school.
This weakness of Ra-im's character even extends to Jong Soo. In fear of hurting a male that is close to her, she can't be a strong woman and own her feelings in front of him. Instead of openingly declaring anything for him, she withdraws any feelings so as to not hurt him.
I think the power of media over woman's images is very strong, because how else do woman base themselves other than the characters they look up to? If Ra-im is supposed to be considered a strong female character in this modern time of sexual equality, then I think all this examining of just "a drama" is needed. To some the bed scene maybe have just been "something silly" but I think the other all drama has mixed messages about genders all around. Just look at the body switch, and how suddenly a tomboy was played so girlishly even those she always makes demeaning remakes about Joo Won not being a man.
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kaigou
December 27, 2010 at 2:50 PM
And if anything, the show has been consistent in showing that Ra-im is really a meek character that overly apologizes, and that her self confidence isn’t as strong as her physical self.
Nail, hammer, bang: she's not actually a strong character at all. Her physical abilities (in terms of stamina and skill, in a choreographed fight -- which is not at all the same as what's needed to actually defend oneself against a true attacker) were trumpeted at the beginning as though this were a signal of "strength" per "female character". But really all it means, in terms of the actual application in this drama, is that she's physically capable, has dexterity, and can take a lot on a physical level. If you change her job to something like waitress or taxi driver or postal worker, suddenly it's clearer that she has next to no true strength to stand up for herself.
It certainly doesn't help (or maybe just muddies the issue further) that she's surrounded by characters who do their best to be complicit in letting Joo-Won continue his neurotic entitlement, and in shoving her down at the same time. Even the drama itself is complicit, in nonsense like having an able-bodied exercises-daily stuntwoman fall way behind in a three-way bike race. The most she gets is to talk back, but the other characters, Joo-Won, and the drama itself empty her words every time. When she tries to draw the line (kick Joo-Won out of the class, refuse to see him, etc), there's always someone to undercut, or outright undo, her efforts.
(Makes me think: no wonder she just apologizes instead, because she's got no one watching her back. We don't realize how much it matters to have people around us validating our needs/intentions when the chips are down.)
Frankly, I think this may be another case (for me) of liking the actors *despite* their characters, not because of them.
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majority-of-1
December 27, 2010 at 10:55 PM
"The most she gets is to talk back, but the other characters, Joo-Won, and the drama itself empty her words every time. When she tries to draw the line (kick Joo-Won out of the class, refuse to see him, etc), there’s always someone to undercut, or outright undo, her efforts."
"If you change her job to something like waitress or taxi driver or postal worker, suddenly it’s clearer that she has next to no true strength to stand up for herself."
Yes, great analysis Kaigou and 'in response ..'. Ra Im as a character doesn't come across as the 'strong woman' the show promotes her to be. And the fault lies with the drama makers. Recently read an article which celebrated the arrival of strong heroines in K-drama n Ra Im was one of them. Did not know whether to laugh or cry!
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d-addict
December 28, 2010 at 6:13 AM
it's one of the things joo won pick on about ra im. didn't he say (i forgot which ep): "I just want you to stop apologizing all the time." i think was in ep 3? jw was perceptive about ra im's inherent "weakness" wasn't he? he wanted her to stand up to people (her co-worker's, his mom, even to him-by demanding his apology when he threw her key into the pond) but so far she hasn't been able to do that. I'm not sure if JW needles her on purpose to get her to fight or if he's exploiting this weakness of Ra im's. I'd like to think he really really wants her to stand up for herself.
184 Hannah
December 27, 2010 at 11:11 AM
A really good test I'd suggest to those who view it as romantic is to to replace Hyun Bin with an unattractive actor and see how it plays out for you then.
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addictive2
December 27, 2010 at 12:29 PM
Actually, i don't think about Hyun bin when debating about this. We are talking about Joo Won character. I don't think it matters whether it's HB or other actors, if he can acts as good as Hyun bin. I love the character..Of course he is flawed, but he loves with all his might....What can you do when it's the first time you got smitten so badly..after you are raised and groom to marry for business consideration
The premise is that RI is attracted to Joo Won, too.
And please replay the scene and look closely that Joo Woon is staying still the whole time, did not try to grab all over her body. Remember this is Romantic comedy drama and the premise from the beginning is they have "abusive" natures in the sense of kicking, hit and all....
I don't even think he chanted those words to curve his desire but more of because his longing for the relationship between them. That is why it is very touching for me when he chanted the phrases with cracking voice..I think It's not desire but Love and hope for a great future for them....sigh...
and now all this comments kinda ruin it a bit for me.....
And in reality..I think it's possible some people has this type of dynamic..Some people are conflicted..this is not a perfect world!!!
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185 Hypatia
December 27, 2010 at 11:18 AM
And here I was in this beautiful world of this man and this woman till some of you reminded me of physical force... and reality. Again, yes, that is definitely a reality... we have all been tainted by it some way or the other. But I would hate to equate the lives of our characters with that. I don't know whether I am taking it to another extreme altogether, but this drama reminds me a little of how Shakespeare structured all his comedies. You have very disjointed characters who would, in reality never have crossed each other lives. But there is this magical, alternate reality that they are forced into, they have no choice but to interact with each other... The alternate environment almost coerces them to see each other, face their fears, question their own identities. Some characters come out of it stronger, while others remain scarred for life.
I like to read these crisscrossed lives of Ra Im and Joo Won as well-framed in that alternate reality. They are learning to accept and love each other's flaws... Ra Im is gradually letting go of the constraints that she tightly bound herself in, she is gradually falling for his neurosis! He, on the other hand is more acceptant of the fact that he is in love and not in a store where he does not have enough money to but that one thing that his heart desires...
Does this mean that this has no connection with reality...that by disregarding physical assault I am reducing the scope of this drama? I hope not... The very fact that he holds her tight and keeps chanting his mantra makes me believe that this isn't your typical assault scene. He seems to be physically holding on to this rare moment where he finds himself with Ra Im, away from his fanatic mother, his store, his cousin and the rest of the world... In 'real' life, this would have been impossible. The fact that he chants aloud while holding her close seems to be his way of challenging himself to 'try and make her vanish'. He seems to be able to stand up to his neurotic mind and say that this is REAL...she is not a figment of his imagination anymore...
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addictive too
December 27, 2010 at 12:31 PM
totally agree with you
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peekabooo
December 27, 2010 at 9:46 PM
agree with you there buddy.
it seems that he chanted the phrases as he did in the previous episodes to let him clearly distinguish that this is not a figment of his neurotic mind,
and when he looked at her to check if she's real, he confirmed that she is, and he's holding her, flesh and bones..
he just couldn't believe it and chanted for the second time and again and again because he doesn't want this moment to end.
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186 Jin Ari
December 27, 2010 at 11:27 AM
Thanks for the recap.
"this moment might have had more dramatic impact had Ra-im and Oska not been wearing the same hairstyle"
had a loud laugh. your style is hilarious.
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187 Severine
December 27, 2010 at 11:29 AM
I never thought about Ra-Im that way--great character analysis, In Response! But I see the not liking rejection bit more as a character flaw directed toward every person she's trying to impress, it just so happens that most of the important people in her life are male.
Majority-of-1, that study sounds very interesting and the results are very scary, indeed. A milder, but nonetheless scary, version of Persistent Male Syndrome happened to me out here in the real world, and let me tell you, it was NOT romantic, but downright scary.
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188 anotheraddict
December 27, 2010 at 11:30 AM
Wow! Over 450 comments already, and that's before those of us who are waiting for the eng-subbed epi can weigh in properly!
What I want to say is this: I bow at the feet of Dramabeans. I never knew I could enjoy, love and respect a blog so much. The superb writing that's not only witty but is also peppered with just the right amount of fangirling and 'tude is enough to make me a very happy camper.
But what makes me feel like I've really struck gold is that in addition to all of that, there is intelligent commentary and analysis which reflects a more enlightened consciousness. I feel at home at DB precisely because JB and GF bring up issues like it being "a whole other thing for a drama to put forth this scenario and then romanticize it as sexy and moving, putting an uncomfortable glossy sheen on a situation that at its core is deeply problematic".
I wouldn't be able to swoon and revel-in-the-cute as much as I do if JB and GF didn't keep an eye on what it all means in the larger cultural context. I "get" the temptation of wanting to have blinders on and stay in the k-dramaland bubble, but given the huge impact that TV has on our consciousness, that's a dangerous thing to do.
Bravo, JB and GF, for being such great role models. I gotta love anybody who both regularly cracks me up and inspires me by taking a stand when it's not the expedient thing to do. (More bowing at your feet.)
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189 Aparna
December 27, 2010 at 1:32 PM
Before I begin my comments, I have read the recap, seen the RAW version and read JB's comments about the issue at hand.
Honestly when I first saw the scene, I loved it. Especially the way they looked at each other and the way he chanted his rhyme at the end of the scene and the way she looked for him in the morning. I felt the scene was a great forward move in the plot when Raim finally begins to acknowledge her feelings for him. Have we ever had such a pigheaded heroine before? One who stoutly refused to see from JW's point of view despite him trying to understand her. Yes he was abusive about her life style. And in reality, if there was such a guy, most girls would reject him outright. But then Raim should not be the lead of this drama. She kept giving contradictory signals. She claimed to hate him. She bad mouthed him to evryone she knew. Though I dont remember JW ever saying anything about her to anyone (except to his mom). But she was flattered by his attention and she was attracted to him and did nt try to chuck him from her life completely. Man she could have called the cops if she had wanted to. I hated her. She was being selfish. Period.
I am not condoning any of JW's actions. He was being a jerk, a meanie and clearly a stalker who would simply not give up on what he wanted but atleast he was endearing because he did not hide the way he felt. I loved him for his blatant honesty though the same honesty made me often grit my teeth in frustration.
There was the constant push and pull between them not unlike the Mills and Boons Romance that everyone enjoys till we become old enough to realize that it s dumb and sexist. And then the scene happened. It happened after Raim admits that she likes him. And JW is adamant about getting her to be with him. Because honestly there is no reason why they should nt be together as a couple. He tried everything possible to win her hand. And out of frustration he enters her room and forces her. Honestly the one who spoiled the scene for me was Raim. Because she struggled too much. As a natural progression, she should have revealed the attraction that she had or kicked him out of the room with her much proclaimed strength. But she did neither. And that soured the scene for me. It is Raim who sends contradictory signals and I am not trying to blame the girl or anything. I am talking about her as a character in the plot. It is Raim's character who refuses to grow. I mean I have never seen a korean drama before with a stunted growth in character like Raim's.
And coming back to the scene as such. I found the scene cute. And I was not disturbed at all till JB gave the exact translation of the dialogue between them in the comments section. Frankly after reading that I was a little surprised that such words were actually penned as dialogues and I understand JB's genuine fear at the wrong way that people could misconstrue the scene or how it could promote a misconception that its alright to jump a girl as long as you know she likes you. And for that I blame the writer. And I do see JB's point of view. But I have a question for her. Because if she found the way that he maneuvers her to his whims a little disgusting, then she should have called him out on it when he pushed her in to the dressing closet and asked if she wants him to change her clothes. They began invading each other's space right from back then.( I think GF recapped that episode. But I am not too sure).
I felt I needed to get it off my chest. Because the comments section in DB has always left me feeling doubly happy after reading it and watching the episode. But today it spoiled the joy that I had after watching the episode. Sorry if I have hurt someone.
Thanks for the recap! And thanks for voting Gumiho as one of the best of the year. That was my best too despite the ending. JB you tend to have STRONG opinions. But most of the time I tend to agree with you :)
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Stopthemadness
December 27, 2010 at 3:16 PM
I said the same thing myself if she was that disgusted by JW behavior she should have called him out on it in all her recaps long before this episode came about. Or popped in and let her outraged feelings be known on the other's one's recap. Everyone has commented on what a jerk he was most of even agreed the kiss he forced on her at his house was uncool and did indeed cross the line of boundaries. But this interpretation of this scene i'm just still shaking my head in absolute disbelief how people are seeing and taking this scene that way. Yes for the record i am a woman no i don't put up with B.S. like Ra Im has done through out this whole drama if i'm not feeling ya i'll let it be known straight it up and if the guy still can't understand that yes i wll get a restraining order to the quick letting him know i mean no and i mean business i'm just not into you move on. I don't send mix signals i don't play coy nor am i confused at all what i want as a woman and the type of behavior i expect men to have towards me. I was shown and taught a lot of self respect it seems what ever background you have not just culture or society self respect starts with the individual. That's just my extra two cents i see a lot of women feeling comfortable with men calling us bitches and Ho's i don't roll like that i let anyone who knows me personally i don't put up that degrading women at all i don't care who the hell you are either.
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Aparna
December 27, 2010 at 6:44 PM
Thanks! I am glad to see that someone else felt the same way about it.
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190 elizabeth
December 27, 2010 at 2:00 PM
Hey girlfriday i am curious as to what you think about the complete drop of the body switch references. They talked about it after they switched but, haven't referred to their body switches really throughout the show.
There was also that creepy ahjuma that was really a man and he was "doing it for his daughter" but it hasn't been revealed or even discussed what are your thoughts?
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191 melanie
December 27, 2010 at 2:46 PM
I'm sorry jb but I'm not with you on this one.
I haven't run through all the comments so I don't know whether someone already brought it up but why don't you compare this scene with the scene in Que Sera Sera?
If you think about violation, "that scene" in Que Sera Sera was violation. Where if I remember correctly the female character was in tears.
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192 lala
December 27, 2010 at 3:14 PM
This is my favorite ep! I think the movement is based on Asian culture.
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193 Peace
December 27, 2010 at 3:42 PM
The words, "rape"or "sexsual assault" are not appropriate to be related to reivews of the bed scene, while I agree with that the discussion here is reeducating people wary of the violence in real life.
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194 toon
December 27, 2010 at 3:56 PM
So, I think it's my first time commenting on a recap in this site.
But I always enjoy watching the drama and reading the recap to get a different perspective into the drama. They either make me think, laugh, or enjoy the drama better since I have no one to really discuss about my favorite dramas.
Recently, I have been reading the recaps of secret garden (Somehow I'm trying to watch the episodes and it's SOO draggy that I'm having difficulties even finishing a part now) instead. And I like reading the recaps more and I think I'll try rewatching to give a better insight to how I perceive each scene. The reason why this, a recap is one perspective of the drama. So it gives me a 'ok, now I see how this scene may have felt for this person' after watching.
But, anyway...to put my opinion for this LONG debate about the bed scene. I'm only interpreting by the recap so it may not completely be true on how I would think after I view the drama.
I'm glad javabeans actually took the time to give her own input to the scene. I think I wouldn't have notice it as much if she did not mention it. WHETHER this is a agree/disagree argument, it allows people to see their perspectives about gender relationships. I sure don't agree with many of the comments left here and it makes me upset that these types of scenes should not be discussed simply 'because it's a drama'.
The guys I know up to this point hug me, when I give them a okay sign (like I'll signal the movement). But I still don't even hug certain guys, even though we known each other for the longest time. And they won't initiate it either because they prob. know, we are respecting each others boundaries this way. If they were to force hug me, I think I'll be really upset and my friendship or trust will go out the window. Because it means that he won't understand/respect my personal boundaries.
Yes I know, this is a drama. But dramas do indicate a part of mainstream society. Korea is not considered really high (along with Japan) for gender equality. Here is a source to prove my point:
http://www.20-first.com/810-0-south-koreas-gender-equality-ranking-falls.html
What also disturbed me was how Ra Im is a stunt woman, she's supposed to be able to kick if off if she didn't want it.
I'm sure it's not that easy. Even though Joo Won is considered 'weak' for a male, he is pretty tall and is still a male. And since they are on a bed, it's much harder for Ra Im to kick him off even if she wanted to because I feel his body pressure and strength makes it harder for her to move. And when someone is suddenly put in a situation like that, it's not easy to exert all the force we have in our bodies. So I really feel disappointed that they had to make a scene like that because it's going to make people say 'she's totally alright with it' but she may not have that power to pull him off or didn't really know what the outcome would have been if she were to kick him down.
Joo Won's really crossing the line for me recent episodes. As much as I love Hyunbin, this character is just driving me nuts. I want to like him but it's SO difficult when he ruined her reputation and friendship when he was 'Ra Im', while Ra Im kind of saved his reputation when she was 'Joo Won'. It's like he has no respect for Ra Im what so ever. He feels he can violate her life in any way.
I think I wrote too much but...I'm the type of person who hated Doumyouji/Jun Pyo from Hana Yori Dango and cannot understand girls thinking his ridiculous actions were what so ever romantic. So I just wanted to voice my thought about this.
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toon
December 27, 2010 at 3:59 PM
I meant for:
What also disturbed me was how Ra Im is a stunt woman, she’s supposed to be able to kick if off if she didn’t want it.
Was actually: what also disturbed me were the comments about how Ra Im is a stunt woman...
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195 Peace
December 27, 2010 at 3:58 PM
Btw,
Unfortunately, this drama would be Hyunbin's last work before he join the army in 2011, and he is doing his best to play the main character in severe cold and poor body condition. I can't believe he will not appear for two to three years for his duty. So sad!!!
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Katey B
December 29, 2010 at 2:09 AM
Hyun Bin's going into the army next year?! :(
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196 peace 2
December 27, 2010 at 5:14 PM
love and hate views.. kinda remind me of the scene when JW was plucking petals off the yellow flowers (were they daisies?)
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197 TESTING122
December 27, 2010 at 7:57 PM
hi
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198 Eileen
December 27, 2010 at 10:52 PM
I love this drama so much, but I totally agree... NO MEANS NO!
What the hell, they're dressing it up to seem as if no means yes and that's really not right. I love this drama so much especially the really good acting from Ha, our lovely lead.
Screen writers need to re-visit their messages. Yes, maybe he does only want to cuddle and feel close to her, but this is telling the public so many different things about the roles of the woman and the man chasing her.
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199 Free
December 28, 2010 at 1:14 AM
wow, 500 comments! It must be a record !!!
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200 Kayla
December 28, 2010 at 1:40 AM
People need to chill. It's a drama. The bed scene I believe was purely comedic. Had Ra-Im sincerely didn't want to be beside him, she would've kicked his ass; helloo, she's a stuntwoman!. It's just playing hard to get guys. Plus people do this all the time. When I'm pissed at my bf he tackles me on the couch and hugs me till I shut up, LOL. I think it's us with the dirty minds.
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