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	<title>Comments on: Open Thread #198</title>
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	<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/</link>
	<description>Deconstructing korean dramas and kpop culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 08:11:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: ebitda explanation</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-936507</link>
		<dc:creator>ebitda explanation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 05:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-936507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey! I simply would like to give an enormous thumbs up for the great info you could 
have here on this post. I will be coming back to your blog for more soon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey! I simply would like to give an enormous thumbs up for the great info you could<br />
have here on this post. I will be coming back to your blog for more soon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jo Hyun-jae admirer</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-514720</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Hyun-jae admirer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 01:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Late entry.

Could not help noticing the pictures of Jo Hyun-jae on the page header. Miss him so much I cannot watch another drama happily unless he is in it. Haven&#039;t watched &quot;City Hunter.&quot; Thought I would like &quot;I Need Romance.&quot; What A DISAPPOINTMENT!!!&quot; 

Anyway, watched &quot;Love Letter.&quot; Need a new one with HIM in it!!!! He is what made &quot;49 Days&quot; so wonderful...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Late entry.</p>
<p>Could not help noticing the pictures of Jo Hyun-jae on the page header. Miss him so much I cannot watch another drama happily unless he is in it. Haven&#8217;t watched &#8220;City Hunter.&#8221; Thought I would like &#8220;I Need Romance.&#8221; What A DISAPPOINTMENT!!!&#8221; </p>
<p>Anyway, watched &#8220;Love Letter.&#8221; Need a new one with HIM in it!!!! He is what made &#8220;49 Days&#8221; so wonderful&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cmrprindle</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-514640</link>
		<dc:creator>cmrprindle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-514640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dunno if anyone&#039;s still reading the OT (it&#039;s Weds after all), but I have to share: 

I went out looking for a brownie.  The first place I tried? No go.  So I went to the next nearest deli.  

The second place, further from my office, is the place where I first tried out my Korean, such as it isn&#039;t.  To my surprise the owner, Mrs. Yee, was actually out from behind the counter.  To my even greater surprise, when she spotted me &lt;i&gt;she opened her arms for a hug!&lt;/i&gt;  I am totally a hugger, but this was so not expected.  She doesn&#039;t even know my name yet.  Plus, I haven&#039;t been there in about a week or more.  

So, needless to say that even though they didn&#039;t have a brownie for me, I was more than willing to settle for some fudge chip cookies (and butter crunch cookies, but it&#039;s the hungry time *big eyes*)!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno if anyone&#8217;s still reading the OT (it&#8217;s Weds after all), but I have to share: </p>
<p>I went out looking for a brownie.  The first place I tried? No go.  So I went to the next nearest deli.  </p>
<p>The second place, further from my office, is the place where I first tried out my Korean, such as it isn&#8217;t.  To my surprise the owner, Mrs. Yee, was actually out from behind the counter.  To my even greater surprise, when she spotted me <i>she opened her arms for a hug!</i>  I am totally a hugger, but this was so not expected.  She doesn&#8217;t even know my name yet.  Plus, I haven&#8217;t been there in about a week or more.  </p>
<p>So, needless to say that even though they didn&#8217;t have a brownie for me, I was more than willing to settle for some fudge chip cookies (and butter crunch cookies, but it&#8217;s the hungry time *big eyes*)!</p>
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		<title>By: momosan</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-1/#comment-514401</link>
		<dc:creator>momosan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 03:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-514401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kim Gwang Taek aka Sword Saint aka best Joseon swordsman

Chun - aka Sky Lord aka second best but sexiest swordsman in Joseon

Ji - aka Earth Lord aka third best and luckiest since both Gwang Taek and Chun are/were in love with her

In - aka Human Lord aka the most annoying character ever to grace a sageuk who fully deserves to be dropped in the boiling vat that they had prepared for Dong Soo.

Dong Soo - young good guy, and titular hero - a Labrador Retriever puppy

Un - conflicted young guy played by a young man who is not even legal yet - a cat waiting to pounce

Cho Rip - young man who is there by hardwork and brains, and a foil for the other 2 - a work pony with glasses

Um...not that I&#039;m obsessed with this drama, no not meeeee...goes off whistling....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim Gwang Taek aka Sword Saint aka best Joseon swordsman</p>
<p>Chun &#8211; aka Sky Lord aka second best but sexiest swordsman in Joseon</p>
<p>Ji &#8211; aka Earth Lord aka third best and luckiest since both Gwang Taek and Chun are/were in love with her</p>
<p>In &#8211; aka Human Lord aka the most annoying character ever to grace a sageuk who fully deserves to be dropped in the boiling vat that they had prepared for Dong Soo.</p>
<p>Dong Soo &#8211; young good guy, and titular hero &#8211; a Labrador Retriever puppy</p>
<p>Un &#8211; conflicted young guy played by a young man who is not even legal yet &#8211; a cat waiting to pounce</p>
<p>Cho Rip &#8211; young man who is there by hardwork and brains, and a foil for the other 2 &#8211; a work pony with glasses</p>
<p>Um&#8230;not that I&#8217;m obsessed with this drama, no not meeeee&#8230;goes off whistling&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: belleza</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-514095</link>
		<dc:creator>belleza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-514095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@CITY HUNTER 

Aside from the manga source material, City Hunter&#039;s essentially a successful fusion of Korean and Japanese idol drama.  The show more or less settles into an episodic format with a tournament structure (each of the 5 targets is essentially a &quot;boss character&quot;), and so the show has a narrative discipline that we haven&#039;t seen in most K-drama action shows the last 5 years.  Plus, you&#039;ll notice that both male characters go at length into &quot;this is justice&quot; semi-speeches . . . that&#039;s typical of J-dorama. 

The J-dorama stylings of City Hunter makes it structurally superior to Time of Dog and Wolf, but also has the same flaws.  Namely, actors are too green to fully realize the potential of the material.  Lee Min Ho has the cool charisma down, but he kinda goes into a mumble with the dialogue, and his reaction shots kinda turns in one-note.  Park Min Young has a plucky character to work with, but she does a lot of emoting and doesn&#039;t have a strong connection with Lee Min Ho.  Still, it&#039;s much better than the brutally hammy acting Lee Jung Ki and the thankless work Nam Sang Mi did for Time of Dog and Wolf.  

That said, I loved City Hunter.  Kim San Joong was delightful as Lee Jin Pyo; on one hand, it&#039;s easy to call him a monster for his treatment, but on another, it&#039;s almost a Heathcliffian extrapolation of Korean paternalism, the notion of father who can only express his love via violent discipline, but nevertheless expresses his love in that way (especially against the backdrop of a fractured Korean identity.)  It&#039;s very . . . Korean.  :D  This is the kind of definitive alpha male soap opera that Choi Wan Kyu has tried to put together since Jumong.  So it&#039;s ironic that these are  from the same creative team of 49 Days and Brilliant Legacy.

@BRO

To put it reductively, Korean male culture IS bro culture.  The combination of various rite-of-ages (including military service), masculine bravado, and no less concern for public congruity, all of which helps to inform the Korean male, and part of the romantic effable pull of K-drama is in how we are drawn to it.

If you don&#039;t believe me, consider the case of the TVXQ saga.  The connection between their fans and the group courses through the intense identification with Their Bro-dom, which manifests in their acapella.  Thusly, the severance of TVXQ has been elevated to  a real-life Bromantic Melodrama.

Such has been the history of Korean TV and cinema.  Go through the list:  Sandglass, Friend, Taegukgi, Jumong.  All seminal bro stories.  Consider that Boys over Flowers is a sort of Asian idol band Entourage.  For all of the casual sexism, we are drawn into the narrative of bruised masculinity, because K-dramas take this shit seriously.  

There&#039;s an important distinction between K-drama and American alpha male role play.  The latter comes from the individual standing out or in American lore, as a dissident outsider.  The former comes from the acceptance from the collective.  Your bros make you who you are.  For whatever reason, we identify with this intense need to belong, and so when we watch these macho men work out their issues with each other, or when we manufacture in our idle imaginations all the hidden drama between different boy bands members . . . it&#039;s always toward the resolution of belonging and communal identification, that this is a higher masculinity than the lone cowboy.

If you don&#039;t buy this, consider which variety programs succeed.  Infinite Youth.  1 Night, 2 Days.  Even Golden Fishery.  Often, they are casually imbued with Bro Aesthetic:  initiation rituals, hierarchy, pratfalling, and an almost adolescent fancy curiosity with women guests.

Now . . that all said, for me, the most convincing display of brothers was in Last Scandal, a beautifully done family drama masquerading as an ajuhmella story.  Brothers have enormous difficulty communicating with each other . . .yet they know what&#039;s on each other&#039;s mind.  And this is exactly how the two brothers play off each other in Last Scandal.

But, at the end of the day, what we romanticize and what the boys romanticize is something like Friend or Taegukgi.  That is, the sanctification of Bro-dom.  Therefore it is completely appropriate that the fangirls most identify, with the bro relationship in City Hunter, and where Park Min Young&#039;s character transforms into a kind of 3-episode lamentation for all the City Hunter&#039;s personal ills.  (BTW, something that is also typical in J-dorama, women as hood ornaments to the guy&#039;s racing toward personal doom.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@CITY HUNTER </p>
<p>Aside from the manga source material, City Hunter&#8217;s essentially a successful fusion of Korean and Japanese idol drama.  The show more or less settles into an episodic format with a tournament structure (each of the 5 targets is essentially a &#8220;boss character&#8221;), and so the show has a narrative discipline that we haven&#8217;t seen in most K-drama action shows the last 5 years.  Plus, you&#8217;ll notice that both male characters go at length into &#8220;this is justice&#8221; semi-speeches . . . that&#8217;s typical of J-dorama. </p>
<p>The J-dorama stylings of City Hunter makes it structurally superior to Time of Dog and Wolf, but also has the same flaws.  Namely, actors are too green to fully realize the potential of the material.  Lee Min Ho has the cool charisma down, but he kinda goes into a mumble with the dialogue, and his reaction shots kinda turns in one-note.  Park Min Young has a plucky character to work with, but she does a lot of emoting and doesn&#8217;t have a strong connection with Lee Min Ho.  Still, it&#8217;s much better than the brutally hammy acting Lee Jung Ki and the thankless work Nam Sang Mi did for Time of Dog and Wolf.  </p>
<p>That said, I loved City Hunter.  Kim San Joong was delightful as Lee Jin Pyo; on one hand, it&#8217;s easy to call him a monster for his treatment, but on another, it&#8217;s almost a Heathcliffian extrapolation of Korean paternalism, the notion of father who can only express his love via violent discipline, but nevertheless expresses his love in that way (especially against the backdrop of a fractured Korean identity.)  It&#8217;s very . . . Korean.  <img src='http://www.dramabeans.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />   This is the kind of definitive alpha male soap opera that Choi Wan Kyu has tried to put together since Jumong.  So it&#8217;s ironic that these are  from the same creative team of 49 Days and Brilliant Legacy.</p>
<p>@BRO</p>
<p>To put it reductively, Korean male culture IS bro culture.  The combination of various rite-of-ages (including military service), masculine bravado, and no less concern for public congruity, all of which helps to inform the Korean male, and part of the romantic effable pull of K-drama is in how we are drawn to it.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe me, consider the case of the TVXQ saga.  The connection between their fans and the group courses through the intense identification with Their Bro-dom, which manifests in their acapella.  Thusly, the severance of TVXQ has been elevated to  a real-life Bromantic Melodrama.</p>
<p>Such has been the history of Korean TV and cinema.  Go through the list:  Sandglass, Friend, Taegukgi, Jumong.  All seminal bro stories.  Consider that Boys over Flowers is a sort of Asian idol band Entourage.  For all of the casual sexism, we are drawn into the narrative of bruised masculinity, because K-dramas take this shit seriously.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s an important distinction between K-drama and American alpha male role play.  The latter comes from the individual standing out or in American lore, as a dissident outsider.  The former comes from the acceptance from the collective.  Your bros make you who you are.  For whatever reason, we identify with this intense need to belong, and so when we watch these macho men work out their issues with each other, or when we manufacture in our idle imaginations all the hidden drama between different boy bands members . . . it&#8217;s always toward the resolution of belonging and communal identification, that this is a higher masculinity than the lone cowboy.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t buy this, consider which variety programs succeed.  Infinite Youth.  1 Night, 2 Days.  Even Golden Fishery.  Often, they are casually imbued with Bro Aesthetic:  initiation rituals, hierarchy, pratfalling, and an almost adolescent fancy curiosity with women guests.</p>
<p>Now . . that all said, for me, the most convincing display of brothers was in Last Scandal, a beautifully done family drama masquerading as an ajuhmella story.  Brothers have enormous difficulty communicating with each other . . .yet they know what&#8217;s on each other&#8217;s mind.  And this is exactly how the two brothers play off each other in Last Scandal.</p>
<p>But, at the end of the day, what we romanticize and what the boys romanticize is something like Friend or Taegukgi.  That is, the sanctification of Bro-dom.  Therefore it is completely appropriate that the fangirls most identify, with the bro relationship in City Hunter, and where Park Min Young&#8217;s character transforms into a kind of 3-episode lamentation for all the City Hunter&#8217;s personal ills.  (BTW, something that is also typical in J-dorama, women as hood ornaments to the guy&#8217;s racing toward personal doom.)</p>
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		<title>By: nadoka</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-514031</link>
		<dc:creator>nadoka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-514031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[cmrprindle ,, thanks for sharing such a personal story.

 &quot; love is an action verb&quot; Thats so true .. love is defined by actions not meaningless empty words]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cmrprindle ,, thanks for sharing such a personal story.</p>
<p> &#8221; love is an action verb&#8221; Thats so true .. love is defined by actions not meaningless empty words</p>
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		<title>By: nadoka</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-514025</link>
		<dc:creator>nadoka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-514025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy...&quot;

thats so true some times we are in such a hurry to find love in the moment that we forget that it can last for ever 

thanks jomo &lt;3]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>thats so true some times we are in such a hurry to find love in the moment that we forget that it can last for ever </p>
<p>thanks jomo &lt;3</p>
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		<title>By: cmrprindle</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-513966</link>
		<dc:creator>cmrprindle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 01:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-513966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unnie...I just realized I&#039;m going to have to wait until Friday to find out how my conversation with Wee MJP went today.  Pooh.  I hope I was interesting. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unnie&#8230;I just realized I&#8217;m going to have to wait until Friday to find out how my conversation with Wee MJP went today.  Pooh.  I hope I was interesting. <img src='http://www.dramabeans.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: cmrprindle</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-513964</link>
		<dc:creator>cmrprindle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 01:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-513964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When my grandfather was sick and, well, dying, my gram put him in a nursing home b/c she couldn&#039;t care for him at home and all her kids were far away.  But she went there every day.  She fed him, she cleaned him up, she shaved him, cleaned his feet, made sure he didn&#039;t have bedsores or took care of ones he got...  All the unpretty stuff you&#039;re not going to see on a rom-com and don&#039;t think about when you say the I Do&#039;s.  But that&#039;s what it really means to be married, I think.  It&#039;s the &quot;for better or for worse&quot; lived out that shows you really love.  Mom and I went to see them every holiday we had for years (almost all of my college vacays were spent w/my grandparents with my grandfather sick.  After Gran&#039;pa died Mom said something to that effect and wondered if she&#039;d have been able to do the same for her husband (mum&#039;s not married).  I saw it again when my great-aunt got really sick and my adult cousin basically moved out of her house to move into her mom&#039;s apartment and take care of her.  Even though she had 24hr home care, there was still a lot of unpleasant, unpretty stuff my cuz had to do but she did it willingly b/c it was her mother and she loved her.  There&#039;s a pastor, perhaps more than one, that says love is an action verb.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When my grandfather was sick and, well, dying, my gram put him in a nursing home b/c she couldn&#8217;t care for him at home and all her kids were far away.  But she went there every day.  She fed him, she cleaned him up, she shaved him, cleaned his feet, made sure he didn&#8217;t have bedsores or took care of ones he got&#8230;  All the unpretty stuff you&#8217;re not going to see on a rom-com and don&#8217;t think about when you say the I Do&#8217;s.  But that&#8217;s what it really means to be married, I think.  It&#8217;s the &#8220;for better or for worse&#8221; lived out that shows you really love.  Mom and I went to see them every holiday we had for years (almost all of my college vacays were spent w/my grandparents with my grandfather sick.  After Gran&#8217;pa died Mom said something to that effect and wondered if she&#8217;d have been able to do the same for her husband (mum&#8217;s not married).  I saw it again when my great-aunt got really sick and my adult cousin basically moved out of her house to move into her mom&#8217;s apartment and take care of her.  Even though she had 24hr home care, there was still a lot of unpleasant, unpretty stuff my cuz had to do but she did it willingly b/c it was her mother and she loved her.  There&#8217;s a pastor, perhaps more than one, that says love is an action verb.</p>
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		<title>By: Schmazel</title>
		<link>http://www.dramabeans.com/2011/07/open-thread-198/comment-page-2/#comment-513957</link>
		<dc:creator>Schmazel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 01:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dramabeans.com/?p=37136#comment-513957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, samgetang! :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, samgetang! <img src='http://www.dramabeans.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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