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Open Thread #309

 
Huh Gak – “넌 내꺼라는걸” (That you’re mine) [ Download ]

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OK, another day, another open thread.

I was thrilled when I saw Secretly Greatly being uploaded on Gooddrama. I just wish I had known it has such ... um... ok. No spoilers. I wasn´t ALL satisfied with that movie, I wish they had openend the background more on the parents thing and given Park Ki Woong´s character an actual chance to mess with the South Korean idol business. But I guess that was the twist that he is not one of those spies who is talented in everything and builds a cover of being a superstar, like in some movies.
As always, I want to ask a question or raise a subject of discussion. Now there has been something I noticed and it seems to play a big part in dramas. I don´t know if I ever even saw a drama without at least one of those scenes. It is part of every culture as it is an inevitable part of life. However, it might be a sensitive and uncomfortable subject to some folks.
I mean funerals, death of a person, and all that surrounds it. Respect for the elders, traditions, beliefs. Paying respect. Pouring a drink.
I think the image of the korean funeral hall with the flowers and photographs is pretty much engraved into my head by now. It is a grim way to learn to distinguish between cultures. I don´t know half as much about the funeral culture even in most European countries.
I was wondering why it is that almost every drama has such scenes. Why are the funerals taking place so quickly though, in the hospital? For us there is a 5-6 day gap....but what kind of significance do they have?
For one, there are dramatic events, someone dies, so it is just natural.
Second, a chance for the generations, and friends and foes to meet – on neutral ground? It is like a demilitarized zone between love and war. People who knew the person, wthere they be long lost relatives, enemies or allies, all at the same place. How do they get there so quickly I wonder?
Third, koreans don´t seem to have a „block” when showing it. In some cultures people avoid the subject of funerals. You don´t even hear anyone talk about them yet alone include a funeral scene in dramas or movies. Yet it is such a great indicator of human relationships... an anthropological point of interest.
And then what comes after.... the „relationships” with the child and a dead parent. Visiting their grave, memorial days and services, they are a natural part of many dramas. Many of the drama heroes are orphans or lose one of their parents in the course of the drama. Then sometimes their relationship with the „dead parent” is really touching. Like in Kim Sam Soon.
How important is it in Korea in everyday life? Is their still a great respect for ancestors? And how important is it to you? What is your personal attitude towards the matter? Do you know the funeral culture of your country or homeland? Is it visible or is it quiet and hidden? Are there any rituals? Have you taken part in them? (ritual meaning as small a thing as throwing three handfuls of sand). How do you feel about those matters, uncomfortable and rather not talk about such things or take it with ease? What is your „relationship” with the dead ancestors? Do you visit graveyards? What do they look like around you? Superstitions connected to funerals? Etc.
I, as I have a great interest in folklore and legends, am quite fascinated by funeral culture, graveyards, traditions, beliefs.... naturally I don´t actually believe in souls or whatnot, I don´t have to say it, right. But I still „talk” to granny and grandpa in my mind when I go to the cemetary. You know, complain about the hard life and curse and joke. At least they let me do that without interrupting. Then I water and de weed the flower beds and cut the hedge and re-paint the bench, wash the stone..... Estonian graveyards are rather pretty, you know, usually among trees, they are not bare and barren with just stones and nametags. Iron and stone crosses from the 15th to 17th century... Strange names... though, graveyards are also a place where old ladies compete who can plant a prettier flower combination, who decorates the grave with a more extravagant tree or crawling plant, who has a prettier lantern or bench to sit on etc etc. And they come together at the dumpster and bicker that someone stole someones´ idea. Hah. I must say, I hate when there are just these...well, shelves, where you put the ashes and flowers and a photo. Like a locker box. That is so.... miserable. But otherwise Estonia and Korea have so much in common. Food and drink on the grave, and grave spirits and spending memorial days...
I still don´t like funerals though. And photographs of people standing behind the open coffin or on the edge of the grave. People cry and stuff. I guess I am an emotionless bastard. What are they crying about? I feel no sincerity, it is all for themselves they are crying. Their losses, their fears, how do I cope without them etc. Ah maybe I am unfair? No, even for the dead person, they cry that „he/she could have accomplished so much!” It is about achievements, fame, making a name, they speak like all their life was nothing, that they were expected to become a great person, BUT.... they died. What.... That is the dream of OTHERS.. I see so much egocentrism at funerals. Whereas when i try to remember the positive things about the dead and kind of give them a bit of praise for the life they did live, people say „how can you joke around at a time like this? Cant you see everything is lost, dont you feel any regret that they will not be able to achieve anything.” I am not joking, I just try to think what the dead person would like us to do. Certainly not wail and be helpless. And not say „they achieved nothing till now and now they never will!” that is cruel, but it is very common.
And many of the „dead” in dramas express that wish as well. Pull yourself together Pour me a drink and say something nice about me. Remember the joy of life not the sorrow of death. Remember how we went and had fun that time... yeah. And come see me sometimes. AND DONT CALL ME A LOSER OR i WILL COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU!!!
Well, maybe you dont want to venture into this territory then take no notice of my post. But if you want to share something, please do. Be it about graves or memorial activities or weird beliefs or your thoughts on what part funeral scenes play in dramas.... and what has been the most touching of such scenes, in your eyes? And the sweetest relationship between child and dead parent? There is even a drama situated at a funeral home( Flowers for my life).
Oh yeah and there is a funeral scene in my story as well, and I still don´t feel sure whether to leave it or take it out. Would it be seen as too grim? But it is more like funny and thats how the main characters end up in the countryside, the main place of action. They are invited to a funeral. So I just have to leave it in. Often it IS the thing that MOVES people in many senses, brings them back home and pushes them apart.
Sorry if my post looks kind of grim this time, not meant to be. My attitude is more a Tim Burton laa la land, fun and games in the world of dead, no regrets and life goes on. Even if I know it doesnt. Or death goes on. Or afterlife, or spirit existence. Whatever.
Was writing this as the idea came to me prior to Thursday and Masters Sun. Can say glad that we did not have a funeral....Also, I got addicted to a manhwa named Pinocchio, it also has a girl who sees a ghost but it is one ghost only. Anyway, she reminds me of Gong Shil a bit, but she aint as scared and the ghost is hilarious. Kind of like the coffee ghost. And it turns out the ghost is not a dead-person-ghost either. It has been translated up to ch 55 but they say in raws the boy is found and he is in coma. I know I am too old for comics but it was sort of creepy and fascinating. So weirdly similar in some ways to Masters´ Sun.

Museum news: TEENAGERS ARE HERE!!! Tenagers! *hyperventilates* 196 of them! and 20 buses heading this way, 20 times 50, uh, gyaaah! MOMMY!
arghhh and they are latvians. Save me. Make them go Poof! Make them go Poof! Poof! Poof! Poof! Poof! like the ghosts! I swear, they are just as scary.
I wish I had an emergency shelter to hide *hides inside a sea mine* a new meaing to bomb SHELTER, huh?
discussion time ahoy.

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I feel your pain about the teenagers in the museum! I'd love to work in one where I could work with historical artifacts, but tourguiding sounds scary!

Interesting question you raise about the funerals. I've been wondering the same. It does seem like asian countries still carries on the older respect for the ancestors and that's why all the rites are so important. But I am no means an expert on this.

I was trying to think what we do in Norway.. Here as well there tend to be a gap in between the death and the actual funeral. Lots of preparations to do. Norway has both coffin burrials and cremations. But in both cases there tends to be a grave, as the ashes is also burried (in some cases you can get permition to spread the ashes, but it is mostly not done anymore.)

Families tend to be burried in the same places, especially when being cremated. My great-grandparents and my grandfather was burried under the same stone, and I know my grandmother will be buried there as well when she die. Other than that there are some difference depending on where you are I think.

I know for my granddad (on my fathers side) my dad went and got a stone from the beach to use as a tombstone because my grandfather was a sailor and always loved the sea. There tends to be little things such as that involved in burials here, a hint of person that's buried. Like my best friend's dad had "andfield" written on his coffin due to him being a major Liverpool fan. Or my great-grandmother not having any salms in her burial, because she found them depressing.

We, especially in the north, also have a sense of "gallows humour". You joke around a bit, still keeping it respectful. But remembering the good times rather than just the sadness.

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haha the story of that stone, such a nice gesture and so personal.
thank you for sharing.

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Heeeeelp!

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mommy...mommy... 150 pupils in shop...augh I feel dizzy never worked so fast.... hii hii giih hiih help meeeee....

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Greetings from Latvia! I'm kinda new here. Are Latvian pupils so much scarier than Estonian ones?

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no, but they no longer know russian and they dont yet know english. the scary is I have no way of communicating. and they are always in such a hurry. nothing against latvians per se!

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and latvians are our dear neighbors. just that you are always is a rush when in Tallinn! take it slow! we love you being here!

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Your view on funerals is... weird. In my region in Spain it's true that funerals are a social gathering, that is, old people say things like "he/she came to the funeral of my whatever and now I have to reciprocate". (I hate that, BTW, I prefer only family who really cared for the person) But we don't talk about achievements, maybe about living to the fullest.

If a young person dies, obviously people say it's sad, because it shouldn't be his/her turn, and that person missed so many experiences in life. But when an old person dies we say it's nature, and that person already lived a whole life, so in a way we're glad for that person.

About crying in funerals: in the past (several decades ago) it was expected to have a group of women (family, friends, etc.) crying loudly (I discovered this recently I was shocked). Nowadays we cry only if we feel like crying. And yes, it's because we're gonna miss that person, there are definitely selfish reasons, but also because we're sorry that person cannot live more and MAINLY because we feel SAD. I mean, my grandma, with whom I lived, died three months ago, and I still cry sometimes. In private, of course, but I feel sorry that she had to die, that she's not with us anymore enjoying her time, because obviously she didn't want to die. And I cry because I miss her, but I don't feel that's selfish. I missed her because I loved her and she loved me, that's not a bad feeling.

I dunno, it's a difficult subject, my own ideas don't much those of the old(er) people I know. For example, I prefer to go visit people BEFORE they die that to go to their funerals, I don't care that much about funerals. But it's true that many people only care about social issues, and that sucks. People I don't even know or care about saying their sorry for my lose don't help, the only thing they do is bother me when I want to grieve alone or with my close family.

And that's it.

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in Estonia in a region called Setumaa next to Russian border there were "itkejäd" or crying women as well even 50 to 20 years ago. It is no longer common practice.
but I have heard of Central Asian countries where they do that still and some Eastern European like Bulgaria and Romania

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I agree with the parents thing in Secretly Greatly because it played such an important emotional tie that we needed to see in a stronger way. But, that's a small "I wish" because I had seen several interviews about the movie and was super happy it was subbed on gooddrama dot net. I felt like I was intruding on a story that is solely Korean while watching it. The actors - some of my favorites. The movie actually felt very short. *recommend*

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definitely recommended, seems short. it is like the first half is so light, then they suddenly turn the sandglass around and it gets scary dangerous and dark.

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Death...I'm Asian, but Indonesian muslim at that, so my view is certainly colored by it. Death for us is a continuation of life, it is like entering a whole different dimension. Actually for most of us, this life is a preparation for that next life. There's a saying...we live to die, and we die in order to live.

Funerals, we cry not because we HAVE to, but because we're sad. Is it selfish? I don't really care to classify it, but if I were the dead, I would be more sad if the people I love don't even feel sad about not seeing me and not being able to interact fully anymore. I think the true value of someone can be seen on what happen after they're dead. What a wretched life a person has lived, if people celebrate the very fact that this person is dead?

Is it possible that in Korea they put people's ashes in a building like that to conserve space? As muslims we bury our dead, no cremation. But I think if there's such a limit in space, this choice might've been a necessity? We also bury our dead within 24 hour, whether there are families that still haven't come or not. The point is for the dead's body to be buried as soon as possible. We come and pray for the dead, even for some we never even knew before. Why? Because it is the right of the dead to be prayed on...so as fellow muslims, we try to fulfill that right upon us.

Anyway...there's some thoughts about funerals and death. As I now live faarr away from Indonesia, I find it even stranger how people are so reluctant to talk about deaths and that people hate going to funerals. I keep that saying in the front lobe of my mind, "I live to die, and I die in order to live"...because for me, that's the reality of life.

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The reason for keeping the ashes all "shelved up" , I realize it is cause of lack of space.
but it is still really sad that they have to do that. but someones momory, or soul, I guess it doesnt matter how much physical space there is. it is just that in animistic traditions, when you plant trees and flowers, the spirit goes into them, and can live. where can it go from that tiny box?

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Hmm, what I always found a bit strange (that's maybe the wrong word, it's just that I'm so unused to it, you know) is that in Korea (well, I only from dramas of course ;) there always seem to be so many funerals at the same time. And I was wondering where they actually take place. Is it really in the hospital?

Here in Germany there's usually a couple of days between the death and the funeral as well. With my grandmother for example I think it was almost a week, but a reason for that was, among others, so our relatives from Sweden could come.
And then we usually first have a service at the church and then another little one at the graveyard chapel with the coffin present (but no open coffins here, thankfully.) At least the funerals I've been to were like that.
From there, the coffin is carried to the grave, the priest says some more words and then everyone throws some earth, or a flower or something like that, on the grave.
After that, there's coffee and cake (or sandwiches) for everyone, where you usually talk about the deceased.

I must say, my grandmother's funeral actually was the first one where I really cried... and I actually didn't before, when I heard of her death, because it was kinda unreal for me then, you know?

On to a happier topic: In what kind of museum are you working?
I used to study archaeology and absolutely love museums, mainly the historical/archaeological ones of course ^^

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I know that in the US and most other developed countries there has been a gradual shift away from big and/or elaborate funerals over the past few decades. One of the reasons given is the expense, but I think more of it is that in most countries anymore families tend to be a lot more scattered out - in many cases not just different cities, but often different countries scattered around the globe.

As for Korean funerals, I read an editorial in a Korean newspaper a while back about how the biggest pushers of the ones like you see in dramas is - surprise! - those who make money from them.

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I work in Estonian Maritime Museums´Seaplane Harbour with a submarine from 1930ies and a collection of sea mines from 1870ies to 1990ies
check www dot lennusadam dot eu for info.

I must explain to everyone. it is not like I am a heartless person who cannot be sad.
but what I said about egocentrism....in my country I often feel people being cynical and cruel. they must have taken genes from Dr House, travelled back in time and planted them in our ancestors. I dont see the warmth, the sadness, the respect manifest itself strongly. or maybe it is just too private matter to show anyone. we grieve alone at night when nobody hears.

lighter notes? holy blast have you ever seen the grave monuments of gypsy leaders and the loads of food taken to the grave every saturday? that is something extravagant. they have a full "living room" there and fruit, cognac and chees on the table, they sometimes still kill a rooster right there too. I mean wow. and they always pour 2 liters of vodka on the grave. once I saw about 20 oranges and 4 bunches of bananas on it. and they have life size portraits of the gypsy king and gypsy queen as they say, and they dress the monument in bright ribbons every now and then, and artificial flowers.

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Hi Redfox!
You chose an interesting topic to discuss. I'm very moved by the thought of a funeral because tomorrow I am going to attend one. My colleague's son had an accident. It's a sad story, the guy was in his early twenties. Therefore I am sure it will be a very serious, painful event. No jokes, no warm memories. It's too soon for that. If a child or a young adult dies, it's usually like that. The saddest funeral I remember was of a five-year-old who drowned. Even grown up men who weren't close relatives sobbed. I think it was because this death felt so drastically unfair and tragic, the people felt helpless.
I am sure all the colleagues will come tomorrow (it's always like that here, be it a spouse or parent or child of a coworker, in bigger towns and in cities there are less people in attendance)
It is a bit different when an elderly person passes away, then you kind of know it's going to happen, all the more so if the person was sick. The family has time to adjust to the thought that the moment is coming and it's inevitable. It is sad, because you're parting forever, and maybe you missed some chances to do or tell something for that person, but it's not unbearable, there is no bitterness. People tend to think how full and happy the deceased person's life was. When my granny passed away, there were many, many people there. Relatives and friends. I didn't know many of them, but I was grateful that they came. It was like a "thank you" to my granny, a sign that she was a good person, who will be missed and remembered dearly. Many people cried (I couldn't stop my tears either, normally I never cry during funerals, but this time I was unable to control it), but I am sure the tears were sincere.
As for the ceremony, I have only taken part in Catholic funerals. Nobody I knew wished for a secular funeral. The day before burial, family and close friends gather to pray together in the afternoon or in the evening, either at that person's home or in a special hall. It takes 2-3 hours. There are usually some elderly women who know all the prayers and lead the gathering. On the day of burial, the coffin is taken to church or to the cemetery chapel and a mourning service is held, then all people present go in the funeral procession to bring the coffin to the grave. Then the priest says last prayers for the deceased person's soul and throws a handful of soil on the coffin. The coffin gets buried and people leave flowers and candles on the grave. Often a trumpeter plays some melody, one of them is called "Sleep, my friend". After that family and close friends meet at a dinner. Again, if it was an elderly person who passed away, the dinner is quite calm and people chat about the family, remember the deceased and relax. If it's a younger person - well, the tension is still there.
Someone may think that this kind of funeral with so many people is obsolete and artificial. I find it a sign of a close-knit community, when relatives, friends and neighbours are together with the ones who suffer. It won't bring the deceased back, but it will be less lonely and scary for the bereaved.

To end my post with a little Master's Sun-esque note I will tell you something about my granny's funeral. I was very sad and tense, I didn't want to talk to anybody. The weather was rainy but also somehow stuffy. I cried all through the mass and ceremony on the cemetery. When the coffin was put into the grave, I held my mum's hand. Then, there was this sudden gust of a warm, pleasant wind. It really felt like a kiss on my cheek. I thought that it was my granny saying "I love you" for the last time and I calmed down right away.

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thank you so much for taking time to answer! it is a very warm and touching post.
it is heartbreaking when young people die. in my country the deaths in traffic is something horrible. why so many young men...?how could we bring them back? the first thought is always "how can I turn back the time and save them? Could I have done something?"

all our imaginary back to lean on for tomorrow for you.

death is a sensitive subject, I know. but how we say goodbye is really important too.

but it is important to preserve the memory.
even at my grannys´ funeral, everyone was just crushed. I was taking pictures of the relatives. 6 of those pictures became the last ones ever taken of them. I also took the last ever picture of my granny herself while still alive. she rarely let us take a picture at all. I lured her out and snapped it. later, I embroidered that picture for my mom enlarged, as a tapestry.

I wrote things down, what people said, what we ate, what was said about granny. and later sent the diary to some relatives.
we had some conversations. about how one shouldnt actually live like granny did, holding back, not using stuff she bought, stuff bought for her. people need to live today, wear their dresses, use their fine cutlery etc. cause they might not be here tomorrow. never regret. regret is in vain. move forward. that is the only direction still available. never live for bygones.

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Thanks.
I still don't know whether I will be able to say anything to the family. I cannot imagine what the parents are going through. I was thinking about the younger brother (my ex-student) and wondering how he was doing, when I learned about the tragedy of the older one (I used to teach his class for a while, too).

Somehow, I was less inclined to think of alternative versions of MS where Joon Won would actually dies. It felt so insensitive of me.

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I think this is where those korean funeral traditions are different, they have preserved a very clear set of rituals and rules you follow up to how you bow and what you say. a hundred or 125 years ago we would have had that here too. we would never have hesitated or be unsure. even if you dont know what do do the tradtion tells you "do this now". saves you from a lot of pain and uncertainty. even if you feel like you cant get a word out of your mouth, there are things you can do to help.

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Interesting topic. I'll plunge right in but will try to keep it as short as I can.

Funerals have always been more about the living than the dead for me. So when I attend funerals, it's really more for and to comfort those of us who are left. To say goodbye and comfort the living, this is the last thing I could do for the dead.

Living in multi-racial Singapore where they are many different religions, funeral rituals can differ very greatly, depending on the faith of the deceased or family. Especially for the Chinese where now, there is even a mixing of religious funeral rites.

For example, a Buddhist funeral is typically more simple. Depending on the sects, there may be offering of incense and/or flowers, chants, etc. The faith believes that the soul has gone on its path to reincarnation or enlightenment and hence there is no real needs left.

The Taoist funeral in contrast is a lot more elaborate. The belief is that the dead has moved on to another region and will still have the same needs as the living. Therefore there is a need for the living here to provide for as many of the things they would need over there. Hence, the need for, for lack of a better term, the funeral paper mache industry where they would use paper to create all sorts of things which are offered then burned for the deceased's use in the nether world. The family would usually provide a house, servants, clothes, money and maybe a car (and chauffeur if the deceased did not use to drive). Indeed anything you can think of that we use now, some paper version has appeared.

In a friend's mother recent Buddhist funeral, his brother felt very strongly that his mother ought to be provided a house (Taoist beliefs). So they got a house and the Buddhist monk helped write up the deed for it and did the prayers and burning for them. Fusion style.

Other "rules" that are generally followed are that the immediate period of mourning should be an odd number. Meaning it's either 1 day, 3 days, 5 days or 7 days (few go longer than 7), starting with the day of passing and then ending with the cremation/burial. If the length could not be observed, then there are ways to get around it that would keep to the odd number. Funerals are solemn affairs; crying is expected especially in Taoist funerals although these days few would engage 'professional criers', at least not in Singapore. The family is expected to keep guard over the coffin throughout the period of the funeral, especially through the night. Usually there is no eulogy given but I think, that would probably gradually change. Guests at the funerals would typically be offered drinks and usually some snacks (nuts) and also dinner if they come at around that time. Those who could would stay late to keep the family company. The casket company engaged to oversee the funeral will usually have an expert on funeral matters who will come and advise you on what is or can be done and how it should be done.

Then there is the observation of the 7th day, 14th, 49th, 100th day and the death anniversary where immediate family gather to perform rites for the deceased.

There are of course the Catholic and Christian funerals, the Muslim funerals and the Hindu funerals which can differ significantly.

I've thought much about the purpose and rites of funerals during the time of my own mother-in-law's death. Being a Christian undergoing the comparatively more complex Taoist rites, there is sometimes a thinking that all these boils down to superstition and it's done for show. I am inclined to think that there is actually a more humanistic reason for much of the things done. It is a way to comfort the living that they have/are doing all that they could for the deceased, especially things that they did not or could not do while the dead was alive. I know for a fact that my father-in-law felt comforted that in spite of our religious differences, my family did the rites with them, which included things like kneeling to "feed" the dead, throwing of coins and walking through all the rites. For him, it is also the assurance that we would do the same for him when his time comes.

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ah, interesting! I have read about Taoist and Buddhist rites being all mixed, and I think most of the world has a totally wrong picture of Taoism, thinking it is just sitting on a mountain doing nothing. What I have read it became connected to mysticism and even alchemy at some point, and that there are many rituals involved. see a typical western person who blabs about the Tao doesnt know that.
I guess this is why anthropologists look into funerals and weddings. the foundations of the beliefs are manifested in common rituals.

Thank you for taking your time to answer.

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I have also thought the kdrama funerals were interesting. I think the movie 49 days points out some of the reasons people cry at funerals that is universal.

Most of my family lives in Florida, USA. Even though we are pretty close knit, we seem to have different views on what we want our funerals to be like. Some want to be buried in a graveyard, some cremeted and thrown in the sea, cremeted and put in a pot to grow a tree, and my grandpa was cremeted and buried in a graveyard. Apparently that is popular here according to the grounds keeper.

Since I've actually only been to two funerals I find it interesting that they were both religious services. We are more spiritual, but I figure if this is what they want, let them have their final say. The first one I was so nervous I actually had to smother laughter, which I discovered later can be common, even though I felt bad later. I made peace by thinking my granddaddy enjoyed making me laugh. For my grandpa 2 years ago, I was suddenly asked to stand and say what I remembered of him. I smiled and cried and relived some of my favorite memories. It was cathartic. What was interesting is that I then got to meet old friends of his who had actually been in the area and heard so stories from his young days. It also has brought that side of the family into a closer relationship with 4/5 removed cousins. After both events we go out to eat and visit the graves as we wish. I give him some whiskey now that I discovered that ritual in kdramas. So personally, I think it depends on the people more than anything.

As for graveyards I think they can be interesting or scary. I saw some beautiful old ones in England, but I refuse to go near the grave of Marie Laveau, the vodoo queen of New Orleans. I've read some interesting fiction about what can take place in a graveyard, both scary and extremely funny. Also, when I was little, apparently we lived near a graveyard and my father would study there since it was quiet. He became a lawyer - which explains a lot!

Too bad you don't have someone with Joong won's ability to make teenagers go POOF! Hope you made it through.

Also, you are NEVER too old for comics!

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thank you for answering! I am sorry but I had to LOL at the fact kdramas have actually influenced to to adopt a ritual (of giving booze to dead grandpa). I think he must be very, very grateful to you *wink wink* < see a totally manga gesture. I bet good things will come to you.
it is also a remain of the ancient sacrificing rituals to the spirits. I have read a lot about ancestor worhipping and how in Japan and Korea their spirits become either "kamis" or spirits of nature and the funeral traditions follow those beliefs.

now some day, anthropologists will try to find out the origin of the ritual in Florida and can´t make out why it started. would they ever guess it is because of Korean dramas? I doubt. I am sorry but it makes me laugh so much thinking that this might become an option to consider.

as for teenagers, there were seriously many of them, out of the 22 buses that came to Tallinn, about 16 came to our museum. At one point I had 89 people in the msueum giftshop, which is tiny, and 25 people standing in the line waiting to buy, and I was about to cry.

pheef. But I survived. at one point they disappeared. Did not go poof! exactly but at least they left.

as for mangas, it is hard to find a good one, but sometimes you find a less stereotypical one which kind of presents a different way of storytelling. some webtoons are like a movie and sometimes I prefer to "read the pictures" and imagine rather than watch a movie ...when I dont want any noise around.

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I watched a Japanese film where a young girl was obsessed with funeral prep to the point she even wanted to try on funeral garb to find her favorite. In that, it showed a Japanese forest with name plates on the trees to remember loved ones. I liked that idea.

If you haven't seen the movie Departures, I recommend it.

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You should try watching kdrama "flowers for my life" , one of JB's fav and mine..you can find its recaps here in DB...
A drama about understanding the meaning of life and death, and has many different kind of funerals ...
Such a good drama.

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I have, I actually mentioned it in first post (I think) and read the recaps too. wonderful drama.
and oh yes, I really want to watch Departed

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I have, I actually mentioned it in first post (I think) and read the recaps too. wonderful drama.
and oh yes, I really want to watch Departures

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To be honest, I didn't get to fully read your comment and the replies, I just wanted to add the jewish tradition- burial on the day of death (unless there are special circumstances).
It's considered more respectful for the dead, since the soul is not there anymore, and also helping the relatives concentrate on grieving and dealing with their own "life after" (without that person). There are few stages to grieving- the first week, the first month, ad the first year.
It's getting pretty grim here, so I'll stop :)

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Hi everyone! Happy Friday!

I hope everyone celebrating Chuseok is having a good time. How do Koreans outside of Korea celebrate? I was reading about it on wiki, and they mentioned that in places where there isn't a harvest (in Korea), people didn't celebrate. I also discovered something that has puzzled me for years: if folks are following the lunar calendar, how is it that the festivals always fall at around the same time every year? On my wiki-link-clicking (aka clink-licking) spiral, I discovered that the Islamic lunar calendar is one of the only purely lunar ones, not tied to the solar year. Who knew! So I learned about intercalenary lunar years (I think), which has the lunar cycle syncing up with the solar every so often.

Drama!

My drama-life is slow right now, but:

(spoilers may follow)
- Who Are You finished! Last week's episodes really left me cold, so I was expecting a below-par unsatisfactory finish. Didn't happen! Although it was a medium-level drama (flawed but still entertaining), the payoff was excellent. I needed a really decidedly happy ending! And a proper denouement. And so much cute! I know a lot of people don't like Taecyeon's acting, but I ended up watching it for him. Great, warm character, and bundles of adorablez between him and the occasionally wet Shi-Ohn (her character suffered from inconsistency, didn't it? I couldn't decide if it was bad acting or bad writing...maybe a bit of both. But I love So Yi-hyun's hair so I decided not to care).

- Two Weeks: omomomomoooo I was ready to hyperventilate at the end of 13! Also, the Tae-san/Jae-kyung partnership is one of my favourite things right now. I love this show. I can't be coherent about it at this moment though, darn work.

Now I need some help. I'm looking for a Two Weeks fix. Can you give any recommendations? Something that combines the suspense and badassity with heart and a good ending (i.e. everyone isn't dead).

The reason my drama-life is slow is because I've been reading a lot instead of watching stuff (...it used to be the other way round XD). BUT I had the most hilarious and awesome realisation that the books I've loved ARE KDRAMAS IN BOOK FORM. For example, if anyone has read The Blue Castle by L M Montgomery (Anne of Green Gables author) - TOTALLY a kdrama!

i.e.
Girl gets diagnosed with terminal illness, sheds her timid, fearful ways to really live, moves out of her family home, and in with a disreputable drunk...and I don't want to spoil the rest. But it's a kdrama! Full of heart and reflective moments and scenic beautiful shots.

Also, Maggie Stiefvater, one of my favourite authors (YA), had her new book come out this week, the second book of the Raven Boys quadrilogy. Since I read Raven Boys a year ago, I thought I would reread it before The Dream Thieves...aaaand yup, Raven Boys = also a kdrama.

So guys! What books have you read that are kdramas? Please feel free to expand on tropes :D

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who are you - why they done it to pretty oppa....why.
books -most oriental fairytales.

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YES!!!! I actually enjoyed Who Are You?. A lot of people didn't like the end, but boy was I enjoying the hell out of it. I feel so sad that it has ended. I no longer have my Mon/Tue fix. :( And though I loved her ex bf, baby girl had to move on. One of The OST I'm currently obsessed over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCwdt3Udvg (T.T)
I already miss this drama. It was a cute ride!

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I enjoyed "Who are you" too.

I want a second season!!!! That would be super great.
There was this little note with the mirror that her supernatural abilities will return. Maybe, maybe .... we're lucky.
Ahh I like such mysterious stuff...

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they should have left Oppa alive and let SO be with him, but in second season - love conflict! her heart is pulled more towards the younger colleague! that would be a twist.
plus Oppa still outsmarting her even though she can see and talk to ghosts. cause he would just be an awesome cop...

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hmm. Pretty Oppa died. But he was/is a ghost. So he can return to her. Can he??? He can take other bodies in possession.
Maybe oppa has a lost brother or cousin who looks just like oppa. (everything is possible in kdrama-land).

And also a love triangle with a spirit - that would be something new (... at least I think so, but am not sure ...)

So ideas for a 2.season are plenty.

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I enjoyed hearing Gymnopédie No.1 by Erik Satie played throughout Who Are You. Now, images of Kim Jae-Wook as Hyung-Joon appear in my thoughts.

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WHO ARE YOU--geez. I wish I hadn't even watched the last episode. They pretty much ended it on the one before. The whole time I was sitting there thinking, "what???"

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WAY spoiler
I also rate WAY as a "medium level" drama, but was satisfied with the ending. My exposure to ghosts is limited, so I really get into how the subject of ghosts is treated in kdramas. I know it was an obvious clue with the woman and her ghost in the hospital, but I felt it was a good way to prepare us for the "rules" that would apply to oppa.

What was left unexplained, but I sort of assumed, is that both of them were in a coma for 6 years and then when SO woke up, oppa's ghost went into action to work through her to solve the case. Except that SO's ability to see other ghosts, then having that ability lessen - and finally disappear when oppa disappeared??? is unclear. Oh well.

I am a fan of Taecyeon after this kdrama, not so much for his acting, in fact he really doesn't have that sex appeal either, but he's a bit adorable.

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It is the exact opposite for me. The next male lead role that Taecyeon accepts, l will run for the hills screaming before I tune in to watch.

It was torture watching So E-Hyun and TaecYeon portray "romantic" chemistry that just wasn't there. The chemistry between felt more like a brother/sister type of camaraderie. Some actors (pairings) have it and some don't.

Case in point: Sun So Ji-Sub and Kong Hyo-Jin light up the screen in Master's Sun!

Even the one-on-one scenes between Lee Joon-Gi and Kim So-Yeon in Two Weeks exude chemistry.

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Who Are You (WAY)

Initially, I began watching WAY, because I enjoyed the work of So E-Hyun as Seo Yoon-Joo in Cheongdamdong Alice.

Kim Jae Wook did an excellent job with the character of Lee Hyung-Joon in this drama. Kim Jae Wook should have been the lead! He was the only reason I continued to watch WAY. This was my third time seeing him in a drama since his prior work in Dalja's Spring and Coffee Prince.

I was really rooting for and holding out hope that Hyung Joon Oppa/Ghost Hyung Joon would break the second lead curse and wind up with Yang Shi-On. Yeah, he had an extra hurdle as the second lead to start with - he was a ghost. I am grateful for all the flashbacks of their relationship.

Dang it, I really wanted Hyung Joon Oppa to live, recover, and get the woman. I am glad that the writer gave Ghost Hyung Joon and Shi-On closure. She was able to see him in person before he died and grieve for him.

Although Lee Hyung-Joon was a ghost, he constantly provided examples of what actual police work without incompetency looks like. It was a struggle to continue watching week after week because of the absurd moments and the incompetency that Cha Gun-Woo and Yang Shi-On exhibited as police officers.

If you just really think about it, Cha Gun-Woo and Yang Shi-On both deserve each other just for all the times we had to witness the tomfoolery of their actions in this drama.

As the drama progressed, it was harder and harder for TaecYeon to persuade me with his portrayal of Cha Gun-Woo that he and Yang Shi-On were the OTP in this drama in comparison to the acting skills of Kim Jae Wook.

Also, the acting limitations of So E-Hyun were definitely exposed in her portrayal of the character Yang Shi-On. I doubt if it was just the way the writer wrote the character.

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Strike-through -If you just really think about it-

It should read:

At the end of the day, Cha Gun-Woo and Yang Shi-On probably deserve each other just for all the times we had to witness the tomfoolery of their actions in this drama.

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exactly my feelings. even as a ghost his police work was better than that of the living.
ah frustrating.
why do I care so much about a fictional character. I feel like they f****ed up someones existence by just... not giving him a chance he deserved.

most fictional characters deserve better than they get from the writer.

which makes me think...am I fair towards mine? maybe they hate me. oh gosh. they probably think I am an idiot. it is like raising children, right? parents never understand what I feel. the same witht the character and the writer.

but the actor-character relationship ...what is that? you want the character you play to express emotion. I am curious.... do actors protest some things that happen to the character and feel that it is unjust?

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you know, it is not a book, but I would love to get a kdrama version of Edward Scissorhands, maybe in a little more veiled way. it is my favorite film and character

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But "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" is based on a novel by the same title. Random except for Johnny Depp. Loved them both.

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maybe Gilbert Grape would be too shocking for korean audience? insanity, development problems, extreme obesity, and lot of...well, stuff. but it was really good. I just loved LeoDi Caprio in the movie version. havent really liked his later roles at all.

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I wonder if Koreans would look at Gilbert Grape in the same way I looked at Scretly Greatly in that I felt like I was intruding on a country's specific story. I could observe it from a bird's eye view, but I could never absorb it or be absorbed by its Korean-ness. Gilbert Grape is a piece of Americana culture in a country that is so big, even all its citizens can't relate to its cultural specific-ness. And because Korea is so homogenous in so many aspects, I think you are right about it being too shocking.

Leo Di Caprio was amazing in his role - I think it was his debut. Scorsese is totally obsessed with Di Caprio, but I did like their director/actor collaboration in gangs of New York and The Aviator. 'Tho as a celeb, nope, not into him. At All.

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I've read The Raven Boys too, but how is it a kdrama? You mean the plot? I don't see it. Please explain. I'm looking forward to The Dream Thieves, though!

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Oh my, I've been waiting to have a "Two Weeks" marathon since, oh, about when it started. XD
"The Master's Sun" has a classic aura, but I am totally more into "Two Weeks".

I haven't watched the whole drama, but read the manga, and you might like "Mars". Though that's much more dark...

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OMG!!! I think I have read the Blue Castle at least 20 times. Valancy is an amazing heroine and Barney is such a realistic, manly male lead. Always, imagined it as a straightforward movie adaption but a Korean drama would be fantastic.

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Wow! I'm early on this one for a change :P

I've been chasing Two Weeks despite my exams, and I've recently gotten into Master's Sun. I'm also trying to resist the temptation that is Good Doctor...

What K-dramas have you watched even though you weren't supposed to?

Also, sorry for the short post! It's my first time posting a comment on OT (and not a reply) ^^"

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Well this is my first time posting a reply (or any comment at all) on OT :D
Good luck for your exams! I watched I Hear Your Voice during mine. There was just no escaping that show, no matter how hard I tried to get myself to wait. It was my final exams in my final year too. Well I just got back my grades and it was an A- so in retrospect it was a good decision! Haha, i'm sure you'll ace your exams with all that kdrama endorphins flowing through you.

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Haha thanks! I watched I Hear Your Voice during my preliminary exams too! Unfortunately I didn't do too well, so I'm trying to curb my K-drama addiction for now...hee ^^ Lucky you, managing to watch and study at the same time :p Thanks for the well-wishes! <3

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Okay, I shall expand on my post ^^

Two Weeks:
OMOMOMOMO FINALLY!! More Tae-san/Su-jin interaction! <3 Glad that Tae-san and Jae-kyung are finally one-upping the baddies! I'm also curious about the Boss Han/Teacher Kim relationship. How and why did Boss Moon even adopt Teacher Kim in the first place? I'm hoping they resolve everything well, especially with only two more episodes to go. I just hope they don't ruin the ending like a certain drama did. *cough*SwordandFlower*cough*

Master's Sun:
Before I start—NOOOOOOO, AMNESIA AGAIN.
I was dreading it mainly because it's an overused trope, and Master's Sun has done pretty well in avoiding clichés. However, I think it played out well here—Joong-won wasn't a dumb chaebol who immediately thought Hanna was his Taeyang (unlike a certain curly-haired rich guy). My heart hurts for Gong-shil though. That shaman lady is creepy ;;
Can I just add that Yi-ryung is adorkable? <3

Also, I'm kind of worried about the one episode extension. I hope they don't ruin it. I like the pacing so far and I hope they don't add in too many filler scenes. I Hear Your Voice suffered quite a bit in terms of pacing when they added the extension, and I hope it doesn't happen to Master's Sun.

Good Doctor:
My mum's been watching it, so I inadvertently end up catching parts of an episode too. All that I know of the drama is from Dramabeans, so I don't really know how good or bad the pacing or other stuff are. All I know is that Shi-on is basically a cuddly teddy bear with adorable puppy eyes. *squishes*

And now, I have to wait another week for episodes... ;;

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Completely agree with you on Master's Sun. I’ve always felt that Hong Sisters dramas would be better at 12 episodes rather than 16. The third act shenanigans always seem to dilute what came before, with lengthy family power plays etc which never interest and feel more like filler anyway. I feel the same about this amnesia plot line. It feels so wrong and unfortunately the tidal wave of excitement and hope engendered thus far won’t carry me to shore now as I prematurely crash out at sea. What a shame! I do hope that the Hong sisters don’t stick with this story arc/template much longer, 8 (maybe 9 as I never watched Big) is enough. I’m would be very much interested in what else they could come up with…Though of course I’m not one to advise or criticize being a failed writer myself.

Regardless, Master’s Sun has been fun and I’m indebted to them and fully intend to ride out the journey, where ever the Hong sisters take me. As one writer said before, ‘they are my characterizations and I love them the most!’

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I would definitely like to see what else they can come up with. I believe they are fully capable of wowing us with a fantastic plot sooner or later ^^

Exactly!! Master's Sun has been awesome thus far and I'd definitely recommend it to anyone who likes a good horror rom-com ^^ (except I'm not so sure it's horror any more...the ghosts have become tamer, phew!)

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Agreed. I'm definitely a fan girl of the Hong Sister dramas and continue to be too.

Yeah, those ghosts! As it would have it I'd always end up watching the episodes in the middle of the night when everyone else was asleep. However they haven't been as many frights as I thought there would be on that front AND I'm glad for it.

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when it comes to ghosts, I wish to have a look behind the coffe ghosts´story...
manye loose ends.
what about Gong Shil´s accident? what about the reason why she was Big Sun and Yi Ryung was Little?

and just what is Kang Woo to Joong Wons´ father?
AND WHERE IS THAT NECKLACE???

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@Sabah

Same!! My first Hong Sisters drama was You're Beautiful and I loved it.

Ugh, they were the reason I didn't want to watch Master's Sun at first! I have a weak stomach and I can get a whole week's worth of nightmares just by seeing a couple of ghost pics. *shivers* I've gotten through the first 8 or so eps by reading DB's recaps while watching, and skipping over the parts where the ghosts spring out. ><

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@redfox

Hmm, you're right! Never really paid much attention to the coffee ghost before, but now I'm hoping he'll help Gong-shil in some way... If not, why do the Hong Sisters keep him hanging around Gong-shil?

Yup, that too! I'm hoping the Hong Sisters manage to reveal everything well, especially with only 4 more eps to go. Hopefully they don't cram everything into the last 2 eps.

Oh no, so many things to resolve! I'm really hoping Kang-woo doesn't turn out to be a bad guy :(

Gah, the necklace! To be honest I didn't pay much attention to Hanna when she first appeared, mainly because I was totally invested in the Joong-won/Gong-shil loveline and the ghosts. Now I'm still a little confused, so I hope the Hong Sisters clear up the twin mystery well...

Basically, the Hong Sisters set up many conflicts, so I hope they set up good resolutions as well. Also, I'm hoping they put the extra episode to good use by making the resolutions clearer or adding more adorable Joong-won/Gong-shil scenes, and not use it to drag out the conflicts. One of the things I hate most is when dramas meander too long on a conflict. :(

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I get what you mean about the amnesia turning up again. But somehow it didn't bother me as much. Like someone commented on the Master's Sun thread it is following the rules the drama has established and it is a nice character reflector over Joong Won as well. In the way he get surprised learning about how much he has changed, while at the same time having that feeling that something is missing.

He isn't just going back to being a jerk, but is actually discovering a new world in a sense. And it's not like it happened in the last episode, which is when I really really hate it turning up :p

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I guess that's the saving grace for it, haha! I do love that it isn't some external factor drilling it into his head that he has amnesia and that he's forgotten Gong-shil, but that he figures it out himself. It just shows how much he loves Gong-shil.

Yes, I agree! I hate it when they spring amnesia on us out of the blue, especially when they only have like one episode left to resolve it. It usually ends up being rushed, and a hasty resolution does not make for a good drama.

I'm willing to not dwell on how much I'm tired of the amnesia trope if the Hong Sisters manage to redeem themselves with the next episode! From how good Master's Sun has been so far, I'm 99% sure we won't be disappointed. :) Yay for more lovey-dovey, touchy-feely Joong-won and Gong-shil!

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I really hate last episode amnisias when the hero goes back to being a pure jerk again. Please gives us something else! Especially as it's never so that the girl actually gets proper annoyed.

I agree, the Hong sisters won't just follow the norm I think. I hope. I kinda want him to chase after her now though. Like Gong Shi was sorta following him around, now it's his turn to follow her to get her to admit stuff! (we can hope right? :p)

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As far as I remember, I've never watched dramas with that kind of ending. Does that mean that the show ends with the hero being a jerk? Or does he magically revert back to himself pre-amnesia before the end of the episode?

I want that too! It'd be really cute to watch that. Yes, we can hope~ ;)

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Nope, he spends the episode being a jerk, and then something happens that triggers his memory, and he remembers everything. Cue Kiss and finish!

Ohh, I want more Kang Candy vs CEO rivalry as well! And would be fun in giant mal CEO turned up again totally asking about Gong Shil (and if seen with Kang Woo, why his girl is with the security guard and if she is up for grabs). Okay doubt that last will happen, but it would be fun!

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That would be so disappointing to watch. Like, after everything we've watched, you spring amnesia on us and then he magically remembers it, all in the span of one episode?!

Haha! I can totally imagine Joong-won going, "Why is this guy acting all friendly with me and how does he know so much about me?" LOL!

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I know right! Amnesia can be an unwanted plot line and sometimes a sign of bad writing. But sometimes it works. As long as it stays out of being a last minute thing I can be fine with it.

Haha it would be awesome!

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Master's Sun is the only drama i am currently watching, it's too much fun i'm loving every bits of it and can't seem to bring myself to watch others since i'm afraid i'd be comparing one with the other (plus my head keeps on thinking "I bet he's gonna remember Tae Yang by the next ep...or would he? That dead girl is def Hanna! or some other things regarding to the possible plot...pathetic i know). So even thou the amnesia trope is obviously over used - count me IN <3 you had me bad show, now you can use me anyway you like (but with a happy ending please).

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I was fine with the amnesia arc in episode 13 of Master’s Sun as it was a consequence of him being back and Taeyang knew that she (the sun) had to be erased from Joong-won’s memories. Anyway, as I was washing dinner dishes I was still thinking about it and got a lightbulb moment.

I was thinking about memory loss aka amnesia as we know it in kdramas, and as the memory loss of Joong-won was a consequence (or price?) of him returning to his body, I remembered Hermione and the difference of her altering her parents' memories and the more common memory charm used throughout the HP book series in which the effect was erasing specific memories using the incantation “Obliviate”. Obliviators use it if a Muggle witnesses something related to the wizarding world. If used improperly, it can erase significant portions of an individual’s memory and cause brain damage, with difficulty in recovery (ex. Gilderoy Lockhart & Bertha Jorkins). In an interview, JKR said that the spell Hermione used (she did not reveal the incantation used) can be reversed and so Hermione was able to bring back her parents (False Memory Charm – implants a false memory in the victim). In the film, however, Hermione used “Obliviate” to her parents instead of the correct False Memory Charm.

And so I concluded that Joong-won’s memories were sort of “obliviated” as part of the magic the shaman performed. I think of it as part of the rules in the MS universe. In the kdramas I’ve seen using the amnesia trope, it’s usually caused by brain damage, disease, or psychological trauma. If they had used this type of amnesia, I would’ve said ‘meh, not that trope again’ too. Maybe Joong-won’s type can be seen by the people around him as dissociative amnesia brought on by the stressful or traumatic event that happened in ep.12. But we all know that it was due to Tae-yang’s deal with the devil (hehe). Yes, it’s still a memory loss, but it’s a different memory loss than what I’ve seen before in kdramas so kudos to the Hong Sisters for it. They could’ve used the amnesia in the One Stormy Night books (the wolf lost his memories due to the avalanche i.e. due to trauma) but they didn’t.

The only problem I have is that I have to wait another long week for ep.14. Curse you SBS! I already finished my new JD Robb book and watched So Ji-sub’s film Always with Han Hyo-joo (it was good!) so I don’t have anything yet to get me through the week. Not sure what I feel about the supposed extension, but as long as they continue to insert whatever additions needed for another episode seamlessly with what they’ve already written, then I’m all for it. I’m expecting some angst as it’s expected during this part of the series and I’m fine with it. All I’m asking now is a happy, logical, and complete ending. Please make it happy like MGIAG and Best Love, not illogical like Big, or incomplete like YB.

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The 6th word into your post is a spoiler!

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Agree with this. I don't mind the amnesia plot point very much just because the alternate (Joong-won dying) would've been a disaster. As long as they don't drag it out, that is. I always thing it's annoying how the leads get together with another female, are about to get serious, and then BAM! Memory comes back. It's just too predictable. And this is probably why people are annoyed with this part of the story anyway. We've come to expect twists on cliches from the Hong Sisters, and this just seems like the biggest cliche of all.

What I don't get is how the aunt is pushing Hanna so much at this point. It's kind of annoying. Given how he's still recovering. And she's really manipulating the situation a lot. I can tell she loves Joong-won, but her actions are seriously bugging me.

Anyway, I'm glad he's smart enough to deduce something's off. I don't think I can take a lot more of Gong-shil suffering. And I miss their interactions, darn it!!

The other thing that confuses me in the drama is Hanna. Why does she even want to be with Joong-won? That seems really messed up. Like, hey, I helped kidnap you. I've messed up your life, but let's get married. What the heck? A part of me wonders if evil twin isn't actually Hee-joo pretending to be Hanna. I have to go back and re-watch Hanna when she visits Hee-joo's grave. I don't know. I'm confused. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 'Cuz if it were Hee-joo, at least we know she kind of liked him. Even if she, you know, messed up his life. But then again, the ghost interaction with Joong-won seemed like Hee-joo. Hmm...

As for the different appearance, I'm obviously watching this with subs. But in the subs, it says the picture taken in Britain was a year after Hee-joo's death. If it's a year, isn't it plausible for her to have changed in appearance that much without plastic surgery? Like Joong-won?

Anyway, till next week...

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Talking about different appearances, is it just me or did they not cast Hee-joo that well? I find that in the flashback scenes with her and young Joong-won, L looks so much younger than her. I honestly find some of the scenes quite uncomfortable to watch because it feels like watching a condescending (for lack of a better word) noona and a young naïve boy. It might be just me, but I find them somewhat lacking in chemistry...

However, I also understand that it wouldn't really be appropriate to cast someone too young because then Hee-joo's ghost would seem too young for present Joong-won. Sigh.

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It's funny. I looked this up, and the actress playing Hanna is a 86er, while the one playing Hee-joo is an 87er. And L is a 92er. Huh...

The interactions between young Joong-won and Hee-joo always threw me off. I never understood why he liked her. She's all like "Hey, I like your for you money, but you won't get mad at me, 'cuz I made a pun out of your name," or "I want you to hurt a lot because that shows how much you really like me." What the heck?! I'm just going with he was a dumb teenager who thought he was in love, but I honestly don't get it.

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Whoa, really?

Exactly!! Being an avid L stan, there were times when I really felt like jumping into the drama and strangling Hee-joo. >:( Like seriously, does she even have one good point?! All she really did was stand around, not show much affection for Joong-won, take part (?) in Joong-won's kidnapping, and cause him to have dyslexia. And then we have young Joong-won smiling at her all starry-eyed, right after she admitted that she likes him for his money. C'MON, WHAT IS SO GOOD ABOUT HER?!

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I hate amnesia plots cause they make this terrible condition look so innocent while it can actually make a person act completely like a scizophrenic. they talk to strangers sometimes attack them cause they lose their way home and are scared... confused...it is never this easy.

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Are you thinking of dementia? I've never heard of anyone becoming aggressive from amnesia?

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nope, not dementia. I have some relatives who go to town and suddenly forget where they live or their closest relatives. and they start asking but dont trust anyone who tries to help thinking they are enemies. and it is impossible to find where they are. then suddenly they are clear and just come home. it is not the big A. they have been tested. really odd. I dont even know what kind of crazy this is. also I know of cases with young people who were in an accident, some brain trauma, who lost their memory and refused to believe who they are, forgot their children even. can you imagine the horror? they had this ... moment when they went hysterical and started kicking around so they had to be sedated. sometimes they start remembering but it is weird they are sort of always suspicious it might not be true... these are true stories. for real.

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Weird. That kinda sounds like delirium, not amnesia though. It affects the person short-term, and clears up (non-progressive unlike dementia).

Although I do agree that amnesic patients would be very confused and not just like "OH HEY EVERYONE!!!"

However, the show is posing the amnesia as non-medical. So, it really shouldn't follow any medical symptomotology.

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I just bought the new JD Robb book so that I don't spend the next week rewatching the series again waiting for next week.

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I've spent the night downloading all MS episodes plus subs so I can transfer them to my mobile device and watch anytime/anywhere.

BTW, loved the new JDR book even if I did not stretch it out and finished it in one sitting. Simply couldn't put down NR/JDR's books. In TID, you know from the start who the perp is. He's one of the most annoying perps in a JDR book (made me want to go into the book to throttle him half the time) but as always, it's how they catch him that makes it worth it. As I said in my twitter, Eve & Roarke still rock! I might re-read when I'm done with the MS marathon. Ah! Forgot there's a novella out on the 24th so I have another book to look forward to while waiting.

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I buy your explanation of the amnesia arc. The loss of memory was induced by the shaman and is logical within the parameters of MS's world.

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Ni hao! Greatings from China!

Yes I finally did make it after waaaaay to much paper drama. Been in China a week now, and I still can't believe it. Also the awkward moment when you realise you know more korean/japanese due to drama's then what you can speak in Chinese.

Things are going okay. Mostly. Had my wallet stolen just before my flight left Norway and am currently on the stage of poorness where I am not sure I can afford instant noodles, or I should priorities getting water. (Thank God for the school feeding us a massive lunch everyday... The days of for the mid-autumn festival has upped my appreciation for this..). Still feel a bit lost as a teacher for 2-5 year olds but suppose that will get better.

Went to the Zoo today, and I think me and my 2 flatmates (guys) ended up being as much an attraction as the animals themselves.

Dramaland:
-Master's Sun: so many theories. Still liking this show. And I really do have an appresiation for the second leads in this one. Just how they are not really that scheming or.. hateful? as others have been. And soo glad Joong Won lived and secretary Kim was not evil. That would have killed me!

-Yamada and the 7 witches: Started this one out of curiousity, and enjoying it so far. A light entertaining watch which carries a sorta message in standing up for yourself, but still not trying to be deeper than it is.

Thinking of rewatching/watching more chinese drama's though. As prevously mentioned, knowing more korean than chinese isn't gonna help me in China :p

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Manin -

Ni hao to you too! So glad you made it to China safely!

So sorry about your wallet being stolen, that's just awful.

Good luck with everything and have a wondeful time!

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Korfan:

Thank you! Yeah my wallet being stolen was not really a part of the calculation I must admit. Still finding it ironic that everyone has been telling me how I must be careful of pickpockets in China, and my wallet gets stolen before I even get there.

How are things in your part of the world?

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Belive it or not, I was just thinking about the irony of this unfortunate wallet situation when I read your post. Just goes to show that you never know when something like this is going to happen. I'm hoping you'll be able to have some of your items replaced.

Things in my part of the world are fine. Lovely weather finally.

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Indeed. People can be scumbags no matter where in the world you are. Just like some people can be really helpful, nice and welcoming anywhere you go.

That's great! Lovely weather is always nice to have, espcially if you get the time to enjoy it :)

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Ni hao! Glad to hear you got to China safely, but getting your wallet stolen sucks. What are you doing for money? Waiting for a paycheck? When your decisions are 'food' or 'water', that's pretty bad. I hope something works out!

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Pretty much waiting for a paycheck yeah. Going to try and phone the bank again to see if I can get emergency cash. But not sure they would have the necessary connections with a bank in China to pay it out. It's annoying because I have enough money in my account, I just can't access it.

In worst case I guess I'll have to borrow some money, or try and ask if I can transfer money into one of my flatmates accounts and get them to take it out. But not sure if they have the international account numbers necessary to do so.

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Sorry to read about the troubles with your wallet. This must have been a huge blow. Do you have an embassy or consulate near you? They might be able to help. Or you could phone them and ask for advice.

But it is good news, that you arrived safely and seem to like your new surroundings. Have a great time and always remember this German saying: That what doesn't kill you just makes you stronger. ;) In 10 years you'll laugh it off!

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Think the nearest embassy is 4 hours away in Beijing. But I am going to phone the bank to see if they have some connections with a bank here to get some emergency cash. Apparently that is possible according to my mum.

That is a good saying, didn't know it was German in origin though :p There is also one that I like that goes "if you fall 6 times, remember to stand up 7".

I feel a bit like with School 2013 when Nam Soo says he goes to school to get feed: My new motivation for getting to work is that free lunch! xD

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Oh dear Manin. If i were anywhere near you i would be there with a basket of groceries. Hang on in there. There is light at the end of the tunnel. First thing when wallet gets stolen is of course your bank cards; inform your bank so money can't be withdrawn. Presumably, done that. In your new country, next recourse is your embassy. You can show them something from the airport report (if you have any) that indeed you got your money stolen. From your arrival airport, you can call them. Next is your employer. They can provide you with an advance,surely. You also need to open a bank account, so you can get money to be transferred there from your bank. Otherwise, you can ask your european bank to send money to your employer's account if you haven't opened one yet. Please update us on how this gets resolved.

If there is a grocery or shop that many foreigners go to, try to get connected to someone who can speak chinese very well so he or she can converse in your norwegian or english and you can get navigated in your new city. Are your flatmates also expatriates? Try not to stick together always as indeed you will be more interesting than the animals in the zoo and a target of all shenanigans. A colleague went on her first day in china went to the famous square, got pestered by a girl who supposedly come from the province wanting to practice her english. offered her tea in a nearby teahouse, got presented with an outrageous bill for tea and basically she ransomed herself off by paying it (around $200 from her credit car; credit card company won't refund. grr).
Take care.

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Oh where are you located? (haha not just asking for the prospect of groceries mind :p)

Yeah bank cards are blocked and new ones ordered so that's fine. Didn't have time to make a proper report at the airport so had to make one online when I got to China. Gonna try phoning my bank to see if they have connections with a bank here for emergency cash (mum told me they should be able to do so)

Yeah, my flatmates are from England so we are all foreigners here. (is this how celebreties feel? people looking and asking for pictures even when you do mundane things :p) All of us have been asking for a Chinese bank account, but our employer has been veeeeeeery slow in that aspect. Though apparently they have "found out which bank you shall make an account in".. Yeah.

Yeah I've been warned about the tea scams before. We were told to never accept and just continue walking if someone tried anything like that.

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that is too bad that your wallet was stolen, happened to me twice in life and till this day I am terrified of it. I check three times every night if it is still with me. and sometimes grab myself on the street yelling it is here, it is here! so I guess I am a zoo attraction too ( you did not do that in the zoo, did you? yell that your body is still there?)

secretary Kim not being evil got a bigger sigh of relief out of me cause I knew Joong Won would live, but I did not know how Kim was connected to Hanna.

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Wow, sorry about your experience! I get what you mean though. I am paranoid about my stuff already due to some expereinces where my backpack was left behind in a taxi + one time where the girl looking after it just walked away without it..

I knew at once that something was wrong. But it goes to show how much people ignore: when you have a person almost hyperventilating unpacking all their stuff and looking around frenetically, and no one would ask what was going on.

Kim's connection to Hanna is interesting. And should make it interesting later on. Like him obviously not knowing Han Na properly tells us that girl got a new face :p

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A number of posts in the MS thread believe that Hanna was the one who died, and the Hee-Joo was actually the one who staged the kidnapping and is now the Evil Twin trying to insinuate herself into Joong-Won's life, for what purpose, is yet unclear.

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Yeah I saw, and I agree that it does seem like something is up. It would also explain the sudden cut of contact with Kim as well. Granted you get that she would be upset, but still. Something does seem shifty there. And it's a nice theory that goes together with the Wolf/sheep methaphore: The one that loves the most dies.

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Ni hoa! Manin, please do continue to send us news from China. I am fascinated and living vicariously thru you.

" the awkward moment when you realise you know more korean/japanese " LOL

2 years ago, the only Asian words I knew were Tae Kwon Do commands and Japanese gardening terms. Now, my drama obsession has grown my vocabulary. I'm sure you will pick up a lot being immersed in China.

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Haha I shall do my best *salutes* ^^

Haha I know what you mean. My korean friend was very amused when he learned that all of the korean words i know comes from dramas. Same with my japanese friend from uni :p

I do hope to pick up Chinese, especially speaking it. You really do feel lost, especially when working with children (or getting a taxi to the Zoo with what you think is the right address only to find out it isn't..)

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Manin, i really like your spirit and attitude. Go girl, don't let setbacks get you down. Which part of China are you in now? It is unlikely but i might know somebody (don't know how many degrees that would be). I have a Chinese colleague at work as well. So among us we might be able to work out something. Catch me on hotmail with teschya before the at. unfortunately i live so farther down than down under. Banking is not easy when you are new and under systems like China. I have opened bank accounts in some countries because of work and some regulations are a nightmare. It was just the sheer weight of employer that we managed to. New AML rules are making it harder as well. google what that means.

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Thank you, I try =)

I'm located in Shijiazhuang, Hebei province. about 4 hours drive from Beijing.

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Is anyone else out there watching the crap known as "Her Legend"?

The story is not even mildly entertaining. Both first and second female leads are, in my opinion, irritating to watch. The main lead has a sort of a Shannon Doherty look to her which, for me, makes me dislike her more. The characters and the plot are predictable.

I started to watch it because I have been down with a cold all week... it has been a "filler", you could say, until the other dramas I am watching are subbed.

Am I being harsh or has my cold just made me irritable?

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hahahahahaha isnt it an old drama?
my cold's making me feel irritated too. you know anything's that fun to watch?

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No! It's brand new! She designs handbags. Poor girl, dead mother, absent father, wronged by all, not recognised as the designer she is, yada yada yada. Rich hero, heir to handbag store, helps girl, irritates girl, doesn't realize he likes her, yada yada yada. Bitchy female second lead with a secret, yada yada yada. Cute male second lead, say it with me...yada yada yada. I've decided to drop it. I started Sweet 18, it's cute so far.

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lol !!! that sums up most of the drama cliche's :P

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This sounds very similar to Fashion King

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It's not my favoritest drama ever, but I'm watching it. (And doomed to heartbreak because the second lead is so much more likable than the hero.)

I haven't watched this week's episodes, so I will only say that I was heartened by the appearance of a backbone on the heroine at the end of episode 12.

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I was on the verge of giving it up when things took a big turn where for once the Jellyfish Doormat actually grew a spine.

I actually think that the 2nd lead is a better actress - she has succeeded in making every viewer hate her, while the lead seems pretty tepid. Overall, not the worst drama ever, but far from being in the top 10, or even top 50.

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"Her Legend" to me is like crack - I know it's bad, but I can't give it up. I got sucked in early in the series, and was about to give it up when the worm turned in ep11-12 (ie, the Candy Girl went into revenge mode). Because it is so unusual in k-dramas for the nice girl to turn vicious, I feel compelled to see the ending even if it rots my brain.

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Happy Friday Dramabeanies!

My heart rate is somewhat back to normal after Master's Sun and Two Weeks. I feel both sort of faltered this week, but we're getting towards the end, wait & see what happens. I am expecting some sweet moments ahead for both.

I'm gonna steal Su-jin, and I am willing to spoil her like a good grandma should...

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Haha! I guess everyone has a soft spot for sweet Su-jin!

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yeah,she's one of the reasons i'm watching. i wanted to scream and cry at the ending of ep 13.

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This is one of the few times I'd actually appreciate a terminal illness in a drama—with Boss Moon as the sick guy, of course.

Or even better, call Nam-saeng over from Sword and Flower to deal with Boss Moon. Apparently chopping off someone's head is as easy as using his chopsticks for Nam-saeng, so it shouldn't be a problem.

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I wonder if there is a 13th episode slump in general ~ might look into that.

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My boss told me yesterday that he wanted to transfer me to khartoum to work there for acouple of years. Surprise, surprise. It's so sudden. I dont know what to say but he expected an answer by monday. Apparently because I'm single he thought it would be easy for me to move around (but what about my kdrama fix???). I have not much idea whats in store for me there. Anyone has any idea? Or any tips about living in khartoum?

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well...they have internet! And stuff ain't blocked! So you'll be fine :D

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nikai -

Other than knowing Khartoum is in Sudan, I have no idea what it is like to live there.

I'm not sure, but I think there are still major political and military conflicts going on in Sudan. I have no idea what your duties in Khartoum would entail, but if I may suggest to you, do a lot of research on the place you're going and on what you'll be doing. Ask questions and get details.

Good luck with everything.

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Second this! Research and ask questions about what to expect are key.

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There's a Dept of State travel warning for US Citizens traveling to Sudan. In short, don't go there!

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The Dept of State has travel warnings for nearly all countries, though Sudan is a bit more severe than most.

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Hello Everyone!

I hope everyone is doing well today. Hoping a wonderful Chuseok holiday is being celebrated by many of you in the company of family and friends.

The weather's been absolutely lovely! I'm thinking that Lee Min-ho and the rest of the Heirs group have been enjoying filming in this weather while they're here.

So I decided to give my full attention to Empire of Gold ..... now watching full episodes rather than bits and pieces. This is one solid, serious show ..... definitely serious. Between all the complex real estate transactions, the shifting alliances and familial scheming , it's a lot to keep track of but it sure makes for one intense show. Enjoying this one quite a bit.

I checked out a couple of minutes of the first two episodes of Good Doctor. Love all the main actors in this, but I'm not sure if I'll continue with or not (time constraints). I certainly haven't watched enough to form a serious opinion about it, but what I will say is that if this show begins to start a dialogue, however small, about autism (or any autism spectrum disorder), in ksociety or even within families, then that's a positive thing.

Up to ep 4 of Master's Sun. My goodness, this one is fantastic. Didn't think I'd like So ji-sub as much as I am .... that "hand-waving motion" he does in front of his face gets me every time. ..... It's hilarious. ..... And Gong Hyo-jin, well, she just never lets me down. No one delivers lines like she does, period.

That's about it for now. Take care everyone and have a great Friday!

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Hi korfan!

I'm excited about Heirs, I can't help it. And it airs on the same day my Korean classes start!

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I am kinda looking forward to Heirs too! I want it to be good, or at least some form of entertaining crack. Also hoping for less BOF and more.. something else :p

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Hi Saya -

That's great that you'll be taking Korean classes!

Hopefully, the drama won't air at the same time as your class. If it does, maybe you can record it for later viewing.

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So Ji Sub talked about the hand motion in an interview saying it felt fleshier to use it instead of just saying Get lost.

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i have a terrible cold. so, i need a fun drama to watch, something like idk, anything fun? some drama with depth.
thanks in advance.

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I really enjoyed History of a Salaryman. Fun with a good story.

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Feel better, saema!

What've you watched recently? It's hard to recommend blind :D Dal Ja's Spring sounds perfect if you haven't seen it already.

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King Of Dramas is perfect for a fun watch..

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King of dramas is perfect! Watch that. I think we get caught up with some nonsense but there is depth and Kim Myung Min is a treat.

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If your cold is that bad, here's a remedy that should help tremendously. Here I go:

- Get 4 to 5 cloves of garlic (I know A LOT people HATE it, I used to hate it too, but it helps.)

- Cut them into very small pieces

- Get a pot and add Distilled water, or water bought from the store. Don't use the water from the faucet (Tap water).

- Put your sliced garlic into the water, and bring to boiling temp for 3 to 4 mins. Turn down the the stove and allow the garlic to sit in the water for 2 mins.

This is where the HATE comes in.

- Get a strainer and strain off the water in a cup (You will be drinking it like a tea) don't throw the pieces away, you will need to take them like your taking a pill. (Preferably to swallow them first, then drink the tea)

I know it sounds horrible if you hate garlic, but it has work for me and my fam and friends that had a really bad colds/flus. ^^ Get well!!! (Funniest thing was swallowing those pieces for the 1st.) XD!!!

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Why not water from the store?

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I did say water from the store is good, just not tap water.

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What's wrong with tap water? Not that any of those folk remedies work for colds (or any virus), some will at least lessen the symptoms. But to be honest the garlic thing sounds so horrible it might be worse than the disease.

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@ Windsun33. I said no tap water because the area I live in the tap water Horrible!!!!! I don't even cook with it. Even reports tell us not too.

As for the garlic thing, No, it's not worse than the disease. Hahahaa sound like you hate garlic. I was skeptical at first, but my cold was so bad, I just had to try it. Did it a few hours later I was up and moving. Yep, I will stand my this remedy, It works!!!

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Yeah, I can understand it if the tap water in your area is bad, but here in Phoenix our tap water usually tests out better than most bottled water.

I like garlic in small doses, but that is about it. Personally I have found that lemon rinds steam (ie vaporizer thingy) seems to help reduce sinus swelling, and smells a ton better than garlic :D

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@ Windsun33. I live in Florida so the water system here is horrid.

lol, lemon do smell tons better. You can also use lemon for the cold and flu. Just squeeze a lemon in hot water, but don't add any sugar and drink it as it is. That also works!!

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With slight differences, this is my remedy as well! I crush the garlic rather than chop it and steep it for 5 minutes in some kind of herbal tea. I strain the tea and throw the crushed garlic away as the active ingredient has been steeped into the tea. As I always have a sore throat with my colds, I add some honey and lemon juice, too. This really works! I use it with my kids. At first they made the classic yucky face but no they ask for it when they are sick.

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Get well soon, saema! *hugs*

Hmm, if you're talking about light-hearted, fun dramas I enjoyed Dream High, Monstar, You're Beautiful and Secret Garden. It's kind of hard to recommend considering I don't know what you've watched or what you enjoy watching, but these are my personal faves. :)

Also, Master's Sun is quite adorable and hilarious at times, if you're willing to put up with bloody ghosts popping up every now and then. They get better and less scary after around the 8th or 9th episode though.

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Protect The Boss. The first half of the show was really fun. :)

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thanks, i need to watch it for Ji sung. Now that his wedding pictures are out. ( i hope db does a post on that) :D

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You might already have watched this one since it's very popular but I want to recommend anyway. For something light and really fun watch The Greatest Love.
You can also try 9 end 2 outs.
If you already have watched most of the good kdramas may be I will recommend you something else.
There is this Taiwanese drama Fated To Love You. It's a fun drama with not much depth but it surely will keep you occupied.
Get well soon <3

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aww I had a cold last week is it ever anything but terrible. I was pretty bad, I think it was a virus, just swept me off my feet in 4 hours totally.
I think I am no longer surprised when a drama heroine falls sick in a snip of finger. it can happen. mythbusters confirmed plausible. tadam.

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Behind on a couple of shows , (no www for a day will do that for you), avoiding spoilers, have a nice weekend!

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Omo! Saikou no Rikon - The Great Divorce is being subbed again ! Off to watch Ep 10.

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Yes, saw that. Glee!

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Happy Friday all! :_
I didn't know if anyone have written a comment about this, but could you DB pleaseee write a post about "Master's Secret", the video mash-up of the dramas "Master's Sun" and "Secret Garden". There's no English subs so I couldn't understand a thing. But it looks interesting, so if you JB/GF don't mind, please recap that video.. I remember you guys did that kind of post before and it was awesome as always.. Thanks a lot!

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Wut?

Where I can find that?
Since I'm actually in the middle of rewatching Secret Garden (while I was waiting for the MS episode, argh!), I totally need to watch that! :D

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Hyun Bin wears less eye shadow than So Ji Sub. Aside from that, I only speak English, so I haven't a clue.

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hi everyone :)

I'm watching:

Master's Sun: loving it and I don't have problems with the amnesia thing here....

Two Weeks: simply awesome!!

I'm eagerly waiting for Heirs :)

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after "It´s OK, Baby!" I am kind of waiting for Heirs too. But just cause I CANNOT BELIEVE IT.
and I just, their outfits. I just want to check if they have all gone mad.

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99% chance they have all gone mad, redfox.

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aaarrggGGHHhhh going blind avoiding Master's Sun spoilers! I think I consumed 17 already nooooooooooooooooo

(I'm saving this to watch when it finishes airing)

(obviously I need to stay away from OT)

cryyyy

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Ouch!!!!! Girl, don't come here or a few other sites until you've finished watching the dramas you're waiting to finish airing. You will always have spoilers. I know because I had to learn the hard way. I feel your pain!!!

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I love men in gats!
I'm currently dying while watching 2 weeks almost live! I'm not in love with the show, but I don't find it flawed in any obvious way. There are some real moments that are so every day that just kill me. I'm not excited, just anxious and BEGGING FOR IT TO BE OVER ALREADY!
I just finished all about my romance and I'm wondering if there is any other show that has a last episode about nothing. To be clear that show was about nothing from about episode 7 but Joon Ha oppa was still in it. I wish there were more dramas with Park Hee Soon.

Everyone,
Are things well with you?

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Hello everyone!

I guess I want to talk about boy bands, specifically the popularity of The Wanted and One Direction. When I was younger the popular boy bands were Back Street Boys, NYSNC, and 98°.

An article I read a while back suggested that The Wanted and One Direction might usher in a new era of boy bands in the U.S.A. I'm not so sure. What do you think?

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