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Liar Game: Episode 8

This episode will get under your skin in the best of ways. Our hero and his archenemy have a battle of wits and wills, which simultaneously manages to be as nail-bitingly intense as it is deeply unsettling. And heartfelt. And fun. But still pretty unnerving. Do-young just seems to have that effect on people sometimes/all the time.

Ratings-wise: Liar Game had been hovering below the 1% mark (remember, this is cable) for the past couple weeks, but finally managed to net 1.11% this episode. Still not a rousing success as far as cold hard numbers are concerned, but any improvement is better than none.

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EPISODE 8: “President Game II”

Everyone seems to think Woo-jin is preparing to use physical force to break up the human shield blocking the voting booth, but all he does is raise his hand…

…So that Actor Gu can high-five him. That’s right, Woo-jin already secured his allegiance by having Sung-joon sneak a letter to Actor Gu during the Bulldog/Dal-goo kerfuffle.

And without a fourth person to block the voting booth, Assemblyman Kang’s plan fails. Dal-goo gets elected president, and fulfills his promise to distribute the funds from the treasury to his supporters.

But there’s a reason Do-young doesn’t look at all worried, which is likely because Dal-goo opens the safe to find it empty. Oh no. This is baaad.

Naturally, Actor Gu and Bulldog turn on Team Dal-goo thinking they’ve been betrayed. Da-jung begins to fret when they mention that Dal-goo will be eliminated for failing to fulfill his promise, which is when Woo-jin finally loses his cool with the group.

While they’d initially believed Do-young’s first promise to be false, Woo-jin now sees the loophole Do-young made for himself: He promised to give money to his supporters without promising to spread it equally.

In that way, Do-young was able to hide the entire sum by giving it to one supporter. Woo-jin and Dal-goo check Bulldog and Actor Gu’s safes to see if they’re hiding the treasury fund but find nothing.

Then Woo-jin reveals to the group that Dal-goo won’t be eliminated for his false promise, because he’d instructed Dal-goo to press the “True” button when he made his bogus promise to give everyone nine hundred thousand dollars.

He was counting on the others to think that Dal-goo had already used up his false promise by making the promise so outlandish, and had planned for Dal-goo to save his real false promise for last. But Do-young hiding the treasury funds has thrown a wrench into his plans.

Da-jung forgives Woo-jin for deceiving her about Dal-goo’s first promise, since they’ve got more important things to worry about at the moment. Woo-jin adds that the only way for them to subvert Do-young’s plan is to find the contestant he entrusted with all the funds and eliminate them so the money is returned to the treasury before the all-important third and final election.

He’s narrowed down the possibilities to two people: Jaime and Lawyer Go. In order to find out which of the two has the funds, he first goes to Jaime and instructs her to spell out her innocence or guilt on the floor with her fingertips, so that it’ll look like she’s opening the safe to the adjacent Lawyer Go.

It does, so Woo-jin then tells Lawyer Go that Jaime proved her safe was empty in order to figure out whether he’s the one holding the money by his reaction. As he expected, Lawyer Go proves his guilt by begging for Woo-jin to spare him from elimination, since he assumes he’s been found out.

His pleas prove worthless when he’s eliminated before the third round as Woo-jin promised, but as the contents of his safe are returned to the treasury, Do-young tries (and fails) to suppress a smile.

When Woo-jin asks Da-jung if she’s just feeling that sorry for Lawyer Go, she evenly replies that she isn’t—after all, Woo-jin is the one who told her that betrayal must be punished. Something about this doesn’t feel right.

Since they had to use up their one false promise to account for Dal-goo being unable to keep his second round promise, Dal-goo’s final promise has to be true. In contrast, Do-young’s made two true promises, so his final promise has to be false.

PD Lee, watching with Director Jang, assumes that Woo-jin’s got this one in the bag—at this rate, Jaime and Do-young will be eliminated. Director Jang isn’t so sure that Do-young would lose that easily.

Jaime confronts Do-young over trusting Lawyer Go with the funds instead of her, though she’s mollified when Do-young says he chose Lawyer Go because he knew Woo-jin would find out who had the money, meaning that Do-young sacrificed him to keep Jaime.

Still, she doesn’t know how he plans to win when the funds have been returned to the safe. “Is that so?” Do-young asks. Even Jaime wonders if Do-young’s taking this one too easy, at least until he gives her a cheshire grin along with the assurance that the game isn’t as cut and dry as she thinks it is.

Assemblyman Kang knows a losing battle when he sees one and uses his final speech to announce that he’s stepping down. Buuut, for an undisclosed and open-ended fee, he can instruct his supporter Bong-geun to vote for one of the two remaining candidates.

After Dal-goo promises to split the treasury money equally among his supporters during his speech, Do-young takes to the podium to promise that if he’s elected, he’ll do whatever his supporters want.

The question remains: was Do-young’s promise the truth or a lie? Da-jung and Woo-jin declare themselves Dal-goo’s supporters, while Actor Gu and Bulldog keep themselves unaffiliated so their votes can be bought for more money regardless of candidate.

Bong-geun has no faith in Assemblyman Kang now, and worries about the debt he’ll be in if he’s eliminated. But Kang thinks he’s got it all figured out, and orders Bong-geun to act like he’s on Do-young’s side so that Dal-goo’s side will pay him more for his vote. He won’t be eliminated that way, and he’ll earn a little money.

Woo-jin keeps a sharp eye on Do-young as he pulls Bulldog into one of the soundproof booths for a one-to-one campaign. Bulldog attempts to stay firmly in Woo-jin’s camp, but begins to doubt who’s telling the truth when Do-young claims that it was Woo-jin who thought of hiding the funds, not him.

Which would mean that Dal-goo’s second promise was actually true, giving Woo-jin the perfect opportunity to hide the funds then and claim that it was Do-young who did it the first round. Do-young plays totally innocent, all aghast that Woo-jin could even think up such a trick—but what he wants Bulldog to consider is that he’s not the one who still has an unused false promise. That person is Dal-goo.

To further instill doubt, Do-young asks Bulldog if he ever got to see Woo-jin’s safe when he had to show his own. Do-young cites this as proof that Woo-jin hid the money in his own safe or Da-jung’s, and asks Bulldog to trust him enough to give him his vote.

Jaime works the same sort of voodoo magic on Actor Gu, and I have to commend her for making it so that Gu believes he’s coming up with his own ideas when she’s the one who planted them.

Do-young moves onto Bong-geun and asks him if he remembers the reason he created Liar Game—to strip down people’s facades by putting them face-to-face with a huge pile of cash. He wants Bong-geun to see through what Assemblyman Kang is doing and to realize he’s better than that.

“I’m not asking for your vote,” Do-young clarifies. “I’m telling you to make your own decision.” Bong-geun refuses to do so unless Do-young tells him whether his third promise was true or false, causing Do-young to ask, “Why is it important whether it’s true or false? Were elections ever about promises?”

Winning is important, Do-young argues, but so is the big picture—this round is just a precursor to the next, and if Bong-geun wants to make it to the final round with the biggest prize, he’s got to think about surviving this round first.

Da-jung tells Woo-jin that she heard Actor Gu telling the others he’d vote for Do-young, but Woo-jin knows that’s just his way of thinning out the herd voting for Dal-goo. After all, Dal-goo promised to split the money equally among his supporters, so it’s in Actor Gu’s best interests to have fewer supporters to share the winnings with.

Regardless, Woo-jin knows Actor Gu will still vote for Dal-goo and tells Da-jung to relax. But something’s been eating her this whole round, and when he finally asks her about it, she replies that the idea of punishing betrayal and rewarding trust has been eating at her ever since he said it.

“People aren’t test subjects,” she continues. “Is fearing betrayal and trusting people to earn a guarantee real trust? Can’t we truly trust each other? If we show them what real trust is—…“

“…It doesn’t exist,” Woo-jin cuts her off. The truth she’s talking about only exists among fools or charlatans with something to hide. It’s up to them to make the others realize what’s true or false, and which choice is better for them.

From their vantage point, PD Lee comments that the game is becoming disorganized. Director Jang just shakes his head that Do-young isn’t trying to uphold his reputation as an MC like he thought—instead, he’s using any means necessary to survive the game.

Do-young’s individual talks achieve their cumulative effect when Bulldog, Bong-geun, and Actor Gu discuss the possibility that Woo-jin may have been fooling them this whole time, and that Do-young is telling the truth.

Woo-jin can’t hear what’s going on but knows it isn’t good, so the only surefire way he can think of to earn everyone’s trust is to hold a group campaign where he can show them his safe…

…But no sooner does he raise his hand to call for a meeting that Do-young raises his first, knowing exactly what Woo-jin had planned. He’ll take up all the time remaining before voting so that Woo-jin won’t get a chance to prove himself.

“We’re one step behind,” Woo-jin says, half-stunned that he’s been outmaneuvered by Do-young.

Do-young uses his silver tongue to tell the remaining contestants that he can’t decide the truth for them—instead, he’ll let them decide the truth for themselves. “Because the truth is simple.”

Woo-jin raises his hand to challenge Do-young on his high-flown but ultimately empty words, because if he’s claiming that authenticity isn’t all that important, he’s acknowledging that his last promise was false, isn’t he?

“If that’s so, do you have any way to prove the truth?” Do-young returns coolly. Woo-jin says that he does by opening his safe and proving to everyone that he didn’t take the treasury money. If none of them have the funds, then Do-young will be proven to be the liar.

Do-young sounds like a practiced attorney when he gives Woo-jin a roundabout answer about how it wouldn’t make any difference without making it sound like a roundabout answer, all while giving him an option to make his case through Da-jung.

Because she can’t lie and everyone knows it, Do-young is willing to give her the opportunity to try and convince the other contestants. Da-jung looks nervous, but Woo-jin doesn’t flinch as he chooses to hear the truth over making Da-jung grandstand.

Of course, it can’t be that easy, which is why Do-young wagers a bet. Woo-jin can only hear the truth from him if he wins.

It all comes down to calling a coin toss with one of the golden, ten-thousand-dollars-a-piece game tokens. Whoever tosses the coin can either tell the truth or a lie, and it’s up to the other to discern which it is. Ooooh. Is Do-young going to succeed in lying to the human lie detector?

The rules are as follows: If the person guessing the truth guesses incorrectly, the coin tosser gains a point. Conversely, if the guesser guesses correctly, they become the coin tosser. The only person who can win points is the one who tosses the coin, and the first one to seven points wins.

Woo-jin lets Do-young toss first, but when Do-young claims it’s heads, Woo-jin manages to catch him in a lie by studying his every facial tic when he asks what the heads side of the coin even looks like. When Do-young hesitates just a little, Woo-jin knows it’s tails.

When it’s Woo-jin’s toss, Do-young incorrectly calls the coin, resulting in the first point for Woo-jin. Then another point. And another. There’s no way Do-young is letting this happen purposefully, right?

Do-young does get it right once, resulting in the coin being returned to him… but then Woo-jin guesses correctly and gets it right back. Woo-jin thinks it’s his superior ability to tell a truth from a lie, but Do-young turns the tables when he claims he’s just been going easy on Woo-jin thus far.

Woo-jin scoffs, but Do-young looks him dead in the eye as he asks, “Do I look like I’m lying?” Woo-jin says nothing, so the game continues. I wonder if he could actually tell if Do-young was lying or not.

Now the game takes a turn in Do-young’s favor, since Woo-jin starts reading him wrong and guessing incorrectly. The points quickly add up so that the two are tied at six, and for the first time, Woo-jin starts to look just a wee bit unsettled as he struggles to read Do-young’s every move for a tell.

Do-young only has to win one more point to win the bet, leaving Woo-jin thinking fast once he calls the coin. Only now does he begin to wonder if Do-young is deliberately manipulating his facial tics to make it look like he’s lying, but he can’t be sure of that either.

Left with no other option, Woo-jin decides to close his eyes and rely on luck as he calls Do-young’s claim true.

“False,” Do-young replies. Which means… Woo-jin lost.

Do-young leans in to all but whisper his next gloating words to Woo-jin: “You’re obsessing over the game. You’ve lost your touch. People don’t care about the truth, they believe what they want.” He even drops to banmal(!!) to add, “Then that becomes their truth.”

Woo-jin can do nothing as Do-young addresses the remaining contestants before the vote, and while he gets in a dig about how they’ve overestimated Woo-jin’s abilities, he makes it clear that discerning truth from lies isn’t what matters.

What matters is that they join the team most likely to win. “Become citizens of the winning nation,” he challenges.

By a one-vote lead, Do-young is elected president during the final round. It’s time for him to pony up to his promise to follow the whims of his supporters, except for the tiny part where Do-young admits his final promise was a lie.

However, he still rewards his supporters by giving them hundreds of thousands of dollars a piece. But when it comes to Jaime, who Do-young admits played the biggest part in his win, he gives her… nothing. Her briefcase of money will be going to the eliminated Lawyer Go.

Jaime’s jaw drops as she furiously gestures to all the money Do-young still has left over, which he claims he needs for other purposes. She is NOT satisfied when he promises to give her a bigger reward if she stays loyal to him through the next game. “You can’t do this to me!” she screams.

“Why not?” Do-young asks simply. Hahaha. This man is brutal.

Since winning entitles Do-young to two eliminations of his choice, he first picks Assemblyman Kang, and then calls Woo-jin’s name—not to eliminate him, but to tell him that life’s not so bad just because he lost once.

The contestant he actually eliminates is Bong-geun, but it’s hardly an elimination when he gives him the nine hundred thousand dollars from the treasury. He claims he’s following Da-jung’s example from the last game by giving the contestants he eliminated the means to follow their dreams.

Director Jang throws a fit over the publicity stunt Do-young just pulled, and doesn’t take kindly to PD Lee’s prodding questions about him having backed Do-young’s entry into the game in the first place.

But it’s not because she thinks Director Jang pulled the strings—rather, her concern is that Director Jang and Jaime are being manipulated by Do-young. “I don’t know what Do-young is up to with this game,” she adds. “But I’m not going to let him do as he likes from now on. Because this… is my show.”

Do-young approaches Woo-jin after the game and extends his hand: “Didn’t I tell you? I’ve never lost a battle. This was fun.” Woo-jin declines to shake his hand.

A few bottles of soju later, Dal-goo is in a mood to blame an already-downtrodden Woo-jin for losing: “You said you’d protect Da-jung. You said you were confident that you’d win!”

Woo-jin stops him with a hand over his mouth before he can drunkenly reveal exactly why Do-young is so frightening (since she doesn’t know about Do-young’s hand in the L Company connection), leaving Da-jung to try and cheer him up.

“Don’t blame yourself too much,” she says. “You can’t win every time. We still survived, so we’ll have another chance.” Woo-jin doesn’t look as certain as he replies in a low voice, “Don’t trust me too much.”

The two men walk home, leaving Dal-goo free to voice his slurred opinions: Is Woo-jin doing this for Da-jung, or Do-young? “If you’re using our Da-jung-ie for your revenge, I’ll kill you.”

When Woo-jin is finally curious enough to ask why Dal-goo cares for Da-jung so much, Dal-goo reveals that he found a commonality with Da-jung in their uncanny ability to be duped.

The only reason he went to prison at all was for a woman he loved, but after she betrayed him, he made a vow never to trust anyone again. But then he met the kind and gullible, who reminded him of himself.

“I want her to live well,” Dal-goo ekes out while choking back tears. “In this shitty world, I want that dummy… I want her to be happy.” Lest we dissolve into puddles of Awwww, the moment is broken when Dal-goo vomits.

But he suddenly remembers what it was President Bae told him about Do-young before he almost got sliced open: “Kang Do-young, that bastard, isn’t even human. He’s completely empty inside.”

Reporter Gu tells Woo-jin about the suspicious circumstances surrounding Guru Pippi and Lawyer Go’s sudden disappearances, which wouldn’t arouse suspicion at first glance. But she knows better.

Woo-jin is more interested in the background info she’s fished up on Do-young, before he asks her whether she’s ever met someone who could control their microexpressions—so named because they’re supposed to be brief and involuntary.

She claims that it’s impossible to control them, which is why Woo-jin is so good at detecting lies through people’s microexpressions. “Kang Do-young can do it,” Woo-jin admits. “I’ve never seen it before either.” Reporter Gu wonders if this means Woo-jin has found his first natural enemy—his true nemesis.

Woo-jin stumbles across a damning piece of info on the first page of Do-young’s dossier: his supposed U.S. address, “Walden Two,” is made up. It’s from a novel of the same name by psychologist B.F. Skinner about creating a utopia through behavioral engineering.

And according to Woo-jin, communities formed to carry out these macabre experiments based off the book’s idea of controlling people’s thoughts by shaping their environment—basically, everything creepy about cult psychology and group think, mixed with a little bit of “Big brother is watching you” paranoia.

PD Lee meets with Da-jung’s father in an attempt to convince him to see his daughter, and when Do-young is informed of it, he declines to show the footage on the show.

Then, while facing a mirror, Do-young covers the top half of his face with his hand as he manipulates his mouth to mimic a range of different emotions…

…While Woo-jin creates a wall of evidence by tacking up a chilling photo of a doctor and a group of boys wearing identical masks right next to a photo of Do-young.

 
COMMENTS

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes to this twist. I really didn’t think I could love this show much more than I already did, but it’s almost eerie how this show manages to be everything I love about good fiction. The last show that stole my heart this way was End of the World, which I recognized as being a niche show for a niche audience that I was just weird enough to be a part of.

But Liar Game is its own beast, because it’s managed the rare feat of harnessing bizarre and fantastical elements into a package with mass appeal, and handles all those elements with a technical mastery that never fails to impress each and every episode. Not only was this hour yet another well-executed foray into the depths of human depravity and the small band of people with the huevos rancheros to challenge the status quo, it was also a focused character study that hit all the right buttons—which all goes to say that this was a pretty flawless hour of television.

I hesitate to call this the first real face-off between Woo-jin and Do-young when they’ve been pitted against each other from day one, but watching them go head to head (and literally brain to brain) so directly was everything I’d ever hoped for and more. And the fact that Do-young actually won in a fair fight against Woo-jin? A-mazing. It’s exactly what needed to happen to keep us—and our good guys—on their toes, especially since Woo-jin doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who hears “You can’t win ‘em all” ever, if at all.

And that’s the sort of thing you don’t want to hear when your archenemy is literally an evil mastermind who knows more about how people work than you do. We’d had our suspicions about how Do-young could fool Woo-jin’s internal and unfailing (at least until now) lie detector, and while we knew Do-young’s motivations were sinister and strange, this latest reveal just took things to a whole new level. Because now we know that the greatest villain dramaland has ever seen is conducting a sinister social experiment based (possibly) on a childhood spent wearing a mask as part of someone else’s sinister social experiment. Best origin story ever, or greatest origin story ever? I can’t decide.

 
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Thank you for the recap! Now that I have seen the ep. with the subs, O. My. Gosh!!!! This ep. was so intense!!!! I LOVE SSR and I LOVE KDY! I know many people have said it in previous recaps, however yes, he is ROCKING this role. He has such a presence, he is intense, and I LOVE all the nuances he does with his character. Those smirks (the tiny, very subtle one he had before he started the coin game), and that laugh. That tiny, very subtle smirk let me know that DY was up to no good, and he had an airtight plan. And I also seriously love his eyes. They communicate so much. That ending!!!! I also LOVE the make-up effect in that dressing room, that made DY look like a robot. And when he put his hand over his face, chills!!!!!

This is where the show is getting interesting to me (the reveal at the end of the ep.), because I was once again lost with what happened during the game. DY’s reaction to the money being gone was interesting. He was not even phased. @ Shalini, now I understand why you asked me if I thought HWJ had been over confident, yes he had. But Puppy HWJ is only temporarily down, he will get back up. Things are getting REALLY interesting, and I am looking forward to next week’s episodes.

KDY looked like he just served HWJ’s behind on a platter. I seriously (actually) LOVE how he manipulated HWJ, and then warned him, AND THEN beat him. That was intense, but it was sooo good. DY tricked HWJ, and he tricked him good. I don’t feel too bad for HWJ (and NDJ, and DG), because I know that they will win/overcome in the end, so I don’t really mind seeing HWJ being brought down at this point. Maybe he needed it, given his declaration to win, no matter what. Also, it lets DY feel that he has a lot of control, but until when, DY, until when? HWJ must have felt very humiliated and disappointed, tasting a small slice of humble pie.

So interesting how the coin game was a set up to show how good an actor KDY could be, and humiliate HWJ in front of everyone. KDY also got to show how much in control he is. “You don’t REALLY know who you are dealing with HWJ,” seemed to be the subtle message (or maybe it was not so subtle, since KDY let HWJ know that he had focused on the wrong things all along). This is what @ Shalini meant by KDY asking JWH to tango, and HWJ should have seen the trap/bait (love that analogy, @ Shalini). KDY already knew how good HWJ was supposed to be. Would he have suggested the game without a plan?

I also really LOVE DG, and the actor portraying him (can’t remember his name right now). He is so good. And awww… DG is such a softie, and such an Oppa. I really loved that scene between DG and HWJ, at the end of the ep. Another moment between the two men (who both wish to protect NDJ), and I really love how DG usually ends up opening up to HWJ. I am so glad that DG remembered what Pres. Bae told him, and that he was able to convey that to HWJ. HWJ is now on a hot trail, and things are heating up.

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Thanks! xD Can't wait to discuss this ep with you! I'll be back after some sleep, to type away! :D

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@ Shalini,

You are very welcome! I hope you are getting some much deserved sleep and rest :-)

You know, when you asked me those questions in ep.7 recap's comments, I wasn't sure what to say, b/c I had seen the ep. on Tues., but I had seen it raw, so I didn't know what the characters were saying, though I could tell when DY started to mislead HWJ. Even without the subs, I could tell HWJ was unsettled, and as I saw the points go up (for DY), I could sense that sth was up, and I kept hoping that HWJ would catch on.

When I watched the ep. today (with the subs), I kept thinking about you, b/c I would see certain scenes, and I would go, "Oh, this is what Shalini was referring to, but couldn't totally say, b/c she was trying not to spoil about ep.8 in the recap of ep.7." So I was able to mention those things in my comment today, having a (little) better understanding of the ep. I also then understood some of the points you were trying to make. Thank you for your patience :-)

You know, I had some questions when I watched this ep., and even after reading the recap. I wondered if you had them as well, or if you could help me make sense of them:

1-Do you remember what the rules about the money were? Could KDY (or HWJ or anyone, really) (re)move the money like that? (Since it was suggested that either one removed it). 2-Before the game started, I thought the money had to stay IN the Treasury, and that it was supposed to stay in one place, throughout the whole game, until a Predtial candidate won? 3-And why was DY able to cast doubt on HWJ? I thought it had been established that Lawyer Go had had the money in his booth, when he acted guilty, and basically confessed that it had been DY’s idea? (Remember that he was begging and crying not to be eliminated)? And Bulldog and Actor Gu knew this. 4-Why is it that when contestants are eliminated on this show, they suddenly disappear? (Hopefully, we will get that answer in future episodes). 5-How did Pres. Bae know that DY is not human, and that his insides are empty? As Shalini asked, who is the Big boss (who parachuted DG, and demanded that he be given a job at Money Money)? 6-If Pres. Bae knows, who else knows then? B/c Pres. Bae doesn’t look like he is that close to DY to have that kind of info, or he is? 7-DY’s insides are empty: did they take out his heart, his liver, his intestines etc… (He does eat, we saw him eat and drink, so no?), (wild imaginary speculations begin for me). 7-What was (were) the rule(s) that HWJ broke, that made the games harder, and the opponents stronger? 8-Also, so because DY won, he could distribute the money from the treasury the way he wanted? (I guess…) What about all the contestants who were eliminated before (1st game), did all of them get money as well? (Maybe we will find that out later?) 9-How did PD Lee figure out that DY is manipulating Dir. Jang and Jaime? (What transpired for her to see it?)

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part 2: Bulldog and Actor Gu seem to be swayed easily by their greed for money. Throughout these two episodes, they jumped from HWJ’s team at the start, to KDY in the first election, then Congressman Kang before the second, then HWJ again, then KDY before the third. Whew! Neither are particularly bright as well (as evidenced when Actor Gu sold CSJ a star in episode 6 and was forced to buy NDJ’s) so I believe it was a matter of pressing the right points. KDY had already mentioned HWJ’s swindler/murderer background at the start, and he merely reinforced the idea once more. And neither Bulldog nor Actor Gu had the smarts to see how they were just played.
“4-Why is it that when contestants are eliminated on this show, they suddenly disappear? (Hopefully, we will get that answer in future episodes)”
We did a few answers as to the aftermath for Fortuneteller Pippi and Lawyer Go, but I keep wondering about Lee MinJin as well. I’m with you, hopefully this question is answered.
“5-How did Pres. Bae know that DY is not human, and that his insides are empty? If Pres. Bae knows, who else knows then? B/c Pres. Bae doesn’t look like he is that close to DY to have that kind of info, or he is?”
That’s a really great question. I hope the show answers it soon. I honestly wonder how a narrative of this skill is going to be wrapped up in four episodes without seriously short-charging us as viewers. Hope it doesn’t happen!
“ 8-Also, so because DY won, he could distribute the money from the treasury the way he wanted? (I guess…) What about all the contestants who were eliminated before (1st game), did all of them get money as well? (Maybe we will find that out later?)”
I don’t think the contestants from the first game got anything. Having lost their 500K, they probably just retreated from the game, sadly. It would be interesting that it turned out that KDY has aided them financially, yet also eerie as it shows just how much of a God he considers himself.
“9-How did PD Lee figure out that DY is manipulating Dir. Jang and Jaime? (What transpired for her to see it?)”
I believe it was an accumulation of factors. She knows that KDY doesn’t care much for Dir. Jang as is. She scoffed when KDY started off with this big speech on how HWJ was a swindler, and she seemed just as intent on the coin-tossing game as the others. I believe it was when KDY won that everything just fell into place for her. That this man wasn’t to be trusted. Same went for when he gave money to everyone but Jamie. PD Lee is one sharp cookie and she probably realized that this sudden dependency Jamie had on KDY , had to have been planned from the start. Therefore, she reasoned that KDY was manipulating both Dir. Jang and Jamie, and possibly even her. I love that she steps straight into action though with that “This is my show.”

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Hey Ivoire!

I just went through your replies on the previous episodes and I feel like a lot of what you mentioned has played out in the show. I'll just compile my answers and questions here if you don't mind! :D
About "do you know whose car DG drove in the mall, as he was creating a diversion (for HWJ) to go in?" I believe that's DG's car, which has gotten quite beaten up over the course of this show xD
"I am also convinced that SSR is enjoying his character, and that makes me love DY even more." A thousand times yes tot this! He seems to be loving this and gosh is he brilliant. That maniacal set of expressions at the end had me shivering. He shines here way better than in YFAS, and frankly, KDY makes a much better villian than LJY.
"I also kind of feel that in a way, DY might end up having the contestants work together." Hello psychic! Fortuneteller Pippi high-fives you. Now that the previous for the next ep has shown that they're beginning the smuggling game, the formation of teams is only going to results in higher stakes for NDJ and HWJ. More so now that Jamie is on their team.
I still find myself going back to that painting in episode 5, what on earth was it? The show isn't the type to focus on random object like that for no reason and HWJ's gaze was oddly intent, I wonder if next week will answer this.
As for next week's preview, here it is! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3TopXKRDvw

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@ Shalini, PART I:

This is my response to your 1st (long) reply to me. I will reply to the other one later. Thank you for the YT preview. I will just wait for ep.9 next week. I did quickly read your take on the review, on your blog. Also, you did leave one or two answers in ep.7 (yesterday), that I have not responded to, and I plan on doing that later. Would it be OK if I let you know when I have (responded to those comments?)

I am planning on rewatching the show at a latter time, to see if I understand it better, having discussed it, and having read the comments about the show. Would it be OK if I contacted you (then) and discussed the show some more with you? In other words, you don't have an expiration date on how long you would be willing to discuss the show, do you? :-) (I hope not). Sometimes, I understand things better after having processed some info some more, and I REALLY want to understand this show, tbh. I am investing a lot of time in this, I want it to count for something.

Thank you for saying this, "I feel like a lot of what you mentioned has played out in the show." That tells me that, my thinking through this show is yielding some good things, if I can speculate (with some accuracy) some of what "might/could" happen later on. I guess I understand a few things then. Honestly, my enjoyment of this drama has been hampered by my feelings (and frustration at times) of not fully understanding the episodes, despite my watching the episodes intently, carefully, and reading the recaps. I even take notes, as I try to follow the logic presented. Thank goodness for being able to ask questions here, and for reading the beanies' comments and responses.

It would make sense if DG had/has a car. After all, he worked and he could be having a car of his own. I don't know why I didn't think of that.

I do agree with you that SSR shines here more than in YFAS, however I do think that it is b/c he is required to, tbh. SSR is striking me as an actor who will do his best to rise to the occasion, if that is demanded of him, and it is here. LJY was more simply written. Remember his motive for killing his brother? B/c daddy wouldn't let him run things (birth order), and manage the family inheritance (sth like that). That was weak for a motive. LJY's presence in the drama gave us some mysteries to ponder about, and solve. They added a chilling effect to YFAS. The writer was successful in tying those up with CSY and DMJ, and how those mysteries affected them. Also, having those mysteries gave us "Hot Prosecutor Yoo [so cute]" and the funny detective (I LOLed so much when he kept banging his head on the wall, to figure out how DMJ quickly disappeared).

So SSR doing more here, makes complete sense to me, based on what I just explained above. I would also argue that playing LJY prepared SSR for KDY, since it is always good to learn and build from past experiences. LJY (from YFAS) had his time and place, and now we have KDY...

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@ Shalini:

This was the last paragraph of that reply (the last sentence was missing):

So SSR doing more here, makes complete sense to me, based on what I just explained above. I would also argue that playing LJY prepared SSR for KDY, since it is always good to learn and build from past experiences. LJY (from YFAS) had his time and place, and now we have KDY. Both are equally good, and both serve a purpose in their respective dramas. Wouldn't you agree? :-)

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@ Shalini PART II:
(Btw, I am responding in the order that you wrote. I hope you noticed that :-) )

I just had a question: why did (and how did he know), HWJ think that Jamie would say she didn't have the money in her safe, and why did he think she (Jamie) would cooperate with him? He read her right, but he also seemed convinced she would go along with his plan. What was in it, for her to cooperate?

About this, "“I also kind of feel that in a way, DY might end up having the contestants work together.” Hello psychic! Fortuneteller Pippi high-fives you. Now that the previous for the next ep has shown that they’re beginning the smuggling game, the formation of teams is only going to results in higher stakes for NDJ and HWJ. More so now that Jamie is on their team."

I said what I said there, b/c I often think about NDJ's wish, which is that instead of the contestants fighting and betraying each other, how about the contestants joining hands (singing Kumbaya :-) ) and ACTUALLY BEATING KDY at the game he created? That would take some brains to write something like that in (not to say that this writing team is bad), and so I am interested in seeing something like that. Besides, I feel that HWJ wants that as well (more so for NDJ), though he is more realistic and more pragmatic, which is why he keeps telling her it can't happen. I don't think HWJ would (totally) be opposed to that though (if they could make it work).

I also read that Jamie's character in the J. Dorama actually helped NDJ (her character in the dorama) at times. And I would like to see that here as well. I wonder if NDJ and HWJ will believe her at 1st, if and when she offers her help. She probably won't do it for free, knowing her.

Do you know why the fortuneteller lady is called Pippi Guru here (in the recaps)? My subs have her as Beeper Guru [or sth like that] (I am not sure why, maybe a translation from her name in Korean?). I wondered where "Pippi" came from (and why).

Like you, I do hope that they bring back the painting in ep.5, and that they address its significance/importance. We'll see.

I am commenting on your 2nd response now: WRT your 2nd # (paragraph), that was why I made the comment (yesterday, I think) that I found it interesting that DY told PD Lee that he chose her (over Dir. Jang) as a partner for the show, and yet he never listens to ANY of her objections. So the LG is REALLY just DY's show (though he did allow Dir. Jang to bring in Jamie, whom he later started using as well).

OK, thanks for your take on HWJ breaking some rule. I wish they would make those kinds of things clear, so I can follow better.

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@Ivoire part 4
“I found it interesting that DY told PD Lee that he chose her (over Dir. Jang) as a partner for the show, and yet he never listens to ANY of her objections. So the LG is REALLY just DY’s show (though he did allow Dir. Jang to bring in Jamie, whom he later started using as well).”
Absolutely. I’m curious as to how those two met as well. She seemed to have faith in him at the start of the show, and that has slowly been eroded to a lingering distrust. I wonder what inspired her “friendship” with him and how she missed his true colours (as she’s ones harp cookie!)
“CSJ (possibly) liking her, would not prevent him from doing all he can to win, so he can have some money. I don’t think those two things are mutually exclusive, tbh. He doesn’t do anything to come on to her though, so maybe he likes her silently? Or maybe he just really cares about her, just in a “noona (friendly)” way?”
You’re absolutely right. For a time there, I was seeing the remaining contestants just as money-hungry quibblers, who cared for nothing but winning. You’re spot on. Money and affection aren’t mutually exclusive. Hmm…seeing it that way, perhaps he may actually like her. She was the only one to trust him in episode 4, and she honestly seems like such a sweetheart that he could easily have fallen for her. It’s times like this when I wish the show was a bit longer for some of the supporting characters to be fully fleshed out. Not that they haven’t done an amazing job so far, but I would really love to know more about Jamie and, now, NSJ, and we simply don’t have the time :(
“I posted my question BEFORE KDY won the elections, so the other contestants did NOT know yet how things were going to go (campaigning, money being given etc…, coin toss), and yet they were already (still) distrusting HWJ.”
Sorry about that! I was still caught up in episode 8 and forgot to make the distinction xP
“If as you said, they know that HWJ is a formidable opponent, why not just be on his side? That way you don’t have to worry about being against someone who is smarter than you. Doesn’t that make sense? That’s what I would have done (before HWJ lost the coin toss of course).And even if HWJ was charging ridiculous prices in the layoff game, they all benefited, b/c NDJ shared the money in the end, and they got to stay in the game, (doesn’t that make them winners in a way?)”
It absolutely makes sense and I wish the contestants would go that way but I think ‘sharing’ is the key word here. The two crucial players for HWJ in episode 8 were Bulldog and Actor Gu. And notice both their expressions upon DG saying that the money would be shared equally. Bulldog literally said: “So the money will be shared equally, huh?”
They both wanted a bigger slice of the pie. Jamie capitalized on this when trying to sway Actor Gu, and it worked immediately (plus he’s not too bright in the head). Neither is Bulldog, who should have seen past KDY’s lie from the start.

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@Ivoire part 5
Plus, notice how KDY didn’t approach CSJ. Firstly, he didn’t need too, especially once he had Bulldog and Actor Gu on his side (which already outnumbers HWJ’s team) but secondly he knew that there was no way those tricks would work on CSJ. So fear of HWJ is definitely a factor, as well as KDY’s constant reinforcement that he’s not to be trusted, but it’s also their desire for a bigger slice of the pie. And now that they’ve appeared to have lucked out in choosing KDY who gives them money regardless of win or loss, then who cares about HWJ?
“Also, KDY does not REALLY encourage them to think for themselves, he just manipulates them, as we have seen. Too bad they don’t realize that.”
Yup! I wonder if they’ll ever really see it, and what it would take for them to do so.
Feel free to ask me any other questions you have about the drama! I love discussing it with you :D
And I was wondering about this:
1 – Didn’t KDY technically give himself away at the end? He took the last briefcase of money and said that it was for the person who’d been the “greatest help” to him in this round. Jamie eagerly anticipated getting up, but he turned and gave it to Lawyer Go. Doesn’t that technically prove that KDY was behind the slush fund, not HWJ? I’ve been trying to explain it away as this show surely couldn’t have made a mistake like that, but I can’t think of anything. Any ideas? :3
2 – Building on the above idea, do you think this could shake Jamie’s loyalty in KDY? After all, she’s seen how manipulative he is in action, (plus she saw him betray her once already). I feel like she’s beginning to realize that she’s being manipulated (as PD Lee) said. What do you think?

Thanks for reading my essays xD I honestly write here more than in my university courses xD

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Hey again Ivoire! I'll definitely be getting to all your questions! And it’s no problem at all! I love being able to discuss the episodes with you, it really increases my love for the show when you or one of the other beanies point out something I had no clue about and I’m like “BAM! You’re awesome!”. I'm practically inhaling this show at the moment so I'd love to help you clarify anything!

“Can I ask you questions when I have them (on your site maybe, if the show happens to be over?) I have to think about those.”
Yeah absolutely! I noticed you mentioned posting a comment earlier but I couldn’t seem to find it on my wordpress :( Hopefully the site hasn’t been acting weird again (it deleted my post on episode 8 of liar game, so I had to type it up again! D: ) Have you found any inconsistencies in the show thus far?
“1-Do you remember what the rules about the money were? Could KDY (or HWJ or anyone, really) (re)move the money like that? (Since it was suggested that either one removed it).”
Hmm…I believe the rules were that at the end of each election, the fellows lined up by the Treasury in suits, would go in, and wheel out carts into each one of the contestant’s cubicles, should the candidate that won have promised money. As money was definitely the incentive here and all the candidates made promises using it (expect DY’s final promise) then that means that the suited guys wheeled those carts in and out each time. KDY tricked the other the first round by having only the cart that entered Lawyer Go’s cubicle contain the money. After the second round (and DG’s win), all the others saw was DG and HWJ disappearing into the bank and then coming out. The suited guys wheeled the carts away as usual. So technically HWJ could have made off with the money as well. We know the carts were empty but the others were open to suspicion.
“2-Before the game started, I thought the money had to stay IN the Treasury, and that it was supposed to stay in one place, throughout the whole game, until a Predtial candidate won?”
Yup! I’m pretty sure that’s it as well, but as I recall some of this treasury money was given to each contestant (including the candidates) and if a presidential candidate needed to campaign individually with them, they’d need to pay up. Contestants from different parties would also need to pay to speak to each other, so a bit of money outside of the treasury would have been necessary.
“3-And why was DY able to cast doubt on HWJ? I thought it had been established that Lawyer Go had had the money in his booth, when he acted guilty, and basically confessed that it had been DY’s idea? (Remember that he was begging and crying not to be eliminated)? And Bulldog and Actor Gu knew this.”
Bulldog and Actor Gu seem to be swayed easily by their greed for money. Throughout these two episodes, they jumped from HWJ’s team at the start, to KDY in the first election, then Congressman Kang before the second, then HWJ again, then KDY before the...

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@ Ivoire part 3: (Sorry I believe I posted part 2 above her in response to your earlier comment :P)

“LJY (from YFAS) had his time and place, and now we have KDY. Both are equally good, and both serve a purpose in their respective dramas. Wouldn’t you agree? ”
Absolutely! It just goes to show how much SSR has grown (in barely a year!) I can’t wait to see more of him in The King’s Face.
“I just had a question: why did, HWJ think that Jamie would say she didn’t have the money in her safe, and why did he think she (Jamie) would cooperate with him? He read her right, but he also seemed convinced she would go along with his plan. What was in it, for her to cooperate?”
After DG won the second election both Jamie and Lawyer Go were now up for elimination. Jamie had to cooperate if she didn’t wish to be eliminated, and she was smart enough to know that the person who had KDY’s slush fund was the one who was going to be eliminated in order for the money to return to the Treasury.
“I often think about NDJ’s wish, which is that instead of the contestants fighting and betraying each other, how about the contestants joining hands (singing Kumbaya ) and ACTUALLY BEATING KDY at the game he created? Besides, I feel that HWJ wants that as well (more so for NDJ), though he is more realistic and more pragmatic, which is why he keeps telling her it can’t happen. I also read that Jamie’s character in the J. Dorama actually helped NDJ (her character in the dorama) at times.”
”That. Would. Be. Epic! I feel like we’d need to eliminated Bulldog and Actor Gu in order for that to happen though. Those two are so money hungry, I can’t just see them singing Kumbaya xD I agree that HWJ does want DJ’s dream to come true. He said as much during the interview in ep 7, but I like that he’s not being cruel in prepping her up for failure. Rather, it’s because he’s experienced what the real world is like and doesn’t want to get her hopes up. As for Jamie, considering that she is on DJ and HWJ’s team for the next game, maybe we’ll see some of that! It would be great for her to have some sort of revelation and join hands with our hero and heroine! That would definitely signal the start of Kumbabya phase!
“Do you know why the fortuneteller lady is called Pippi Guru here (in the recaps)? My subs have her as Beeper Guru [or sth like that] (I am not sure why, maybe a translation from her name in Korean?). I wondered where “Pippi” came from (and why).”
I believe it’s her name. They always address Lawyer Go with his name before his title, so this would make sense. Just curious but what subs do you use? DO you watch the episodes off a site? I torrent them from d-addicts, but I usually have to wait a day for the subs to appear from subscene, so just wondering! :D

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On "Why would it be unfair if DY is a Prdtial nominee?"
I think it's because DY created the game. It may be PD Lee's show, but DY knows the ins and outs of the game better than anyone. Dir. Jung knows that DY is more than just the MC as does HWJ, but the others don't.

"There was a mention (by DY) about a rule (or some rules?) that HWJ broke. Do you know which one(s) that (or those) would be, and when he broke those rules?"
This surprised me as well for as far as the show was concerned I thought it was verified that HWJ being a dog ( <3 )was well within the rules. Listening to it again, I think he meant that HWJ had directly challenged the game. In the interview directly before when KDY stated that the viewers were angry with HWJ this time around and HWJ asked if the viewers shouldn't have expected him to step in. I believe his words were: "Wasn't there a possibility of someone stepping in the moment you said that anything could be brought into the game?" then KDY laughingly said "so you're blaming it on the show?"
It was the first time HWJ had directly antagonized him, which I believe, pleased KDY. It was almost like HWJ was giving him to the go-ahead, a unspoken agreement to start waging war.

"3-Do you think that CSJ has a crush on NDJ?"
I did wonder during ep 3-4 and even during ep 6 when he kept calling her noona. He also chose DG as president during the final election. But htinking back to KDY's first promise, and how he dashed to vote for KDY and eagerly ran to see how much money he'd gotten afterwards, I'm inclined to think not. He's not as bad as the other contestants, in terms of betrayal, but he's certainly in this for the money just as they are.

"Also, I don’t understand why many of the other contestants (still) don’t trust HWJ, do you? He helped them make money in two different rounds (minority game and Layoff game)."
I sort of do. HWJ has proven himself to be a force to reckon with. He's amazing if you have him on your side, but problems would arise if he was against you. And as the others have discovered, being on the opposite end (and having him charge you ridiculous prices xD) isn't exactly fun. They're wary of him as he could just as easily turn against them. Plus he has NDj's interests at heart rather than their own, he's secretive, and sometimes even keeps NDJ out of the loop. It's easier to see someone as charistmatic as KDY who encourages them to make their own choices, doesn't actively suspect them of betrayal, and gives them money even after a false promise, as more trustworthy. Add that to the fact that he just owned HWJ, and suddenly HWJ doesn't seem as infallible. The no long er feel the need to even bother respecting or being wary of him. There's a bigger cat in town. And he has all the cards.

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@ Shalini,

I am responding to your 2nd response still, which I started in PART II above:

1--I asked about CSJ (possibly) liking NDJ, b/c besides calling her "noona," he speaks softly to her (that could be how he talks in general as well), and his eyes usually softens, when he looks at her. And he seemed to be looking after her health, when he was asking her to eat, and putting food in her plate, in an earlier ep. So I wondered about that. Him (possibly) liking her, would not prevent him from doing all he can to win, so he can have some money. He needs it too. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive, tbh. He doesn't do anything to come on to her though, so maybe he likes her silently? Or maybe he just really cares about her, just in a "noona (friendly)" way? I am having a hard time reading him in that regard. I kind of wish I knew.

2--OK, about your last # and your point:

I posted my question BEFORE KDY won the elections, so the other contestants did NOT know yet how things were going to go (campaigning, money being given etc..., coin toss), and yet they were already (still) distrusting HWJ. Remember when CSJ hesitated before getting into the bus, to side with NDJ (thus with HWJ?) Why did he do that? Having thought about it (for a little bit), and after reading your response, I think that they were scared of him. The only ones who are not afraid of HWJ are NDJ and DG. They simply trust him, wholeheartedly.

If as you said, they know that HWJ is a formidable opponent, why not just be on his side? That way you don't have to worry about being against someone who is smarter than you. Doesn't that make sense? That's what I would have done (before HWJ lost the coin toss of course).

And even if HWJ was charging ridiculous prices in the layoff game, they all benefited, b/c NDJ shared the money in the end, and they got to stay in the game, (doesn't that make them winners in a way?) They HAD to know by then that HWJ would do anything to protect NDJ, and that she ALWAYS thinks about the group, not just herself. She wants to bring people up with her, not down (unlike some people in this drama).

I honestly did not see a tangible basis for their NOT trusting HWJ, before the coin toss. After the coin toss, that's a different story, but not before. HWJ said and did a lot of things that ended up being right before. Also, KDY does not REALLY encourage them to think for themselves, he just manipulates them, as we have seen. Too bad they don't realize that.

I really enjoy and appreciate you helping me make sense of this drama. Thank you for indulging me :-) *bows 90 degrees to you in gratitude :-) *

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Hope you don't mind me butting in your discussion, but I wanted to comment on your point,

"If as you said, they know that HWJ is a formidable opponent, why not just be on his side? That way you don’t have to worry about being against someone who is smarter than you".

I think that since the beginning of the game, Woo Jin has consistently had the upper hand. He's obviously a lot smarter than the other contestants and that kind of obvious intelligence can be intimidating, especially when said intelligent person is a complete cipher. They don't know anything about him beyond the fact that he just got out of jail. He's also made it very clear that his priority is Da Jung and Da Jung only. She may care about and want to help the others, but he hasn't shown any such inclination. I agree, that even then, it would be the smarter move to side with someone who has better chances than you of getting through, but let's face it, the game is called the Liar Game, which means that deceit and suspicion are part and parcel of every round and it's very easy to suspect someone you know nothing or very little about.
I also think that the contestants have shown themselves to be kind of like sheep, in the sense that, apart from Sung Joon, none of them have really shown any thinking process of their own beyond "I think siding with him/her will get me more money" so when Do Young is being so glib and open, it would take much for them to be swayed t his side. Remember, Actor Gu only switched sides because Woo Jin offered him a better 'role' and Bulldog switched sides because Bong Geun's candidate insulted him. I think it's more about their egos for them at any given time, more than the long game.
Wow, this became a bit of a rant and I'm not even sure if it made sense...

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@ shinayame,

Hello and welcome to the conversation/discussion. And no, we do not mind you butting in "our" discussion. Au contraire (it's the opposite), we invite you to join the conversation. "The more, the merrier", as the saying goes... This conversation is not exclusive to Shalini and I, we just happen to be the ones who are willing to read through our (long) comments, respond back, check back later to see if there are some responses, and if there are additional questions, or something in the comments that elicit more thoughts or ideas, we simply share those thoughts, with each other, but also with anyone willing to read our comments.

So again, "welcome!" :-)

About this, "Wow, this became a bit of a rant and I’m not even sure if it made sense…"
Yes you did (make sense), not to worry :-) And btw, I LOVED your rant, which made me laugh, especially this part, "Bulldog switched sides because Bong Geun’s candidate insulted him." I didn't remember that part. Do you remember what the candidate said, or how far into the ep. that scene is (how many minutes in)? I am LOL while I am typing b/c I have just realized that it IS sth that Bong-geun's candidate would do (insult someone, who could become a supporter), and Bulldog is VERY sensitive about being insulted, as we saw with DG (and I bet HWJ knew/sensed that).

It really is a testament to how well those side characters are acted, if I can remember their personalities (as presented in the drama), and still LOL b/c of things they have done. Bong-geun's candidate did not seem to have a lot of self control, which is not good for a politician. Why would you insult a potential supporter? I really love it when in movies or dramas/TV series, every actor/actress takes his/her role seriously, no matter how small the part seems to be. You never know who might be paying attention. And I find that in Kdramas, they usually do. They are usually in character during filming, even if the camera is not on them directly.

I really liked how you explained things, and I agree with this, "I also think that the contestants have shown themselves to be kind of like sheep," and with this, "it’s more about their egos for them at any given time, more than the long game."

About this however, "so when Do Young is being so glib and open, it would take much for them to be swayed to his side." Did you perhaps mean "it would NOT take much for them to be swayed..?." l was just curious...

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Hey guys... don't worry.. keep calm and watch this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn9qjoJrTZ8

He isn't that creepy after all.. lol

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Oh gosh he's adorable in here with those bunny ears and that deep voice <3 SSR is a fantastic actor, and seems to really be loving this role. Just curious but is he the reason for your name? xD

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Shalini , haha, yeah he is... Because my first comment here was about him(in the open threat) yesterday, I used it.

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@ SSR,
I thought he might be the reason for your screen name here as well :-) So, that 1st comment, was it your VERY 1st comment on Dramabeans? (Just curious).

If so, then welcome!!!!!

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@ SSR,

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am really impressed with SSR's range of acting prowess and singing skills. He DOES look cute in that video, and I have not watched TL yet, so I have not seen him sing (yet). I do remember him in One Mom, 3 Dads and he was cute and adorable in it. I loved the relationship he had with his "mom" in that drama. It is nice to see his growth as an actor, and to see his range. I do know that he is a musical actor as well, and that he DOES love the stage, where he honed his acting skills.

I LOVE that he is the kind of actor who goes with the flow, and doesn't mind looking cute/silly or ridiculous for a role. That's commitment to a role. So he can do intense, and he can do funny/cute. I am a new fan of his (just liked his page on FB). I would LOVE to see him on the stage. I seriously LOVED when he did the aegyo voice in ep.6/ep.7. It was kind of out of character for KDY, but it was sooo good to have those few secs.

Apparently, they didn't want him in movies and dramas before, b/c he was "too tall." So he turned to theater, which holds a special place for him. I also just found out that he was in WGM, and man!!!! He is cute (looking) in it. Have a look (I will have to watch his segments). It's kind of funny, b/c he comes across as your typical guy (I am hungry, when are you feeding me? That was why I came on the show. I was looking forward to things like that). And I love the female comedian he was paired with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tQtxRGmk7c

And some info about SSR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Sung-rok

He is quite tall (taller than LSY). In the scene where he challenges HWJ to the coin toss, the angle we see KDY and HWJ at, shows KDY being taller. It looks a little bit like he is overpowering HWJ (height-wise). LSY/HWJ has to look up to see his eyes, which LSY rarely does, as he has said (he had to do the same with PHJ, in MDSY). Interesting tidbit.

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Ivoire, I haven't watched TL too, only a few epis with skip of course but I have seen enough pics and clips and done some reading about it... Dont know if I ever continue with it but if I do, I likely only watch his scenes.. cuz I am really getting tried of the same story which is jerk leads getting the dump girl(I will never understand why they fall for them..maybe cuz they are dump:P) and the sweet seconds always end up heart broken..sigh.. I haven't even watched a lot of story like this(maybe 3 or 4) but even knowing and reading about them, aarrgg!

Yeah, I knew those things about him and listened him way before than his current fame. I firstly watched him in ThankYou and there, unlike everyone, his char was my fav along with his little girl. And a char. and acting can make me like the actor/ess too and search for other things he/she has done (but I'm not from kyaa girls.. no. never..LOL) So, then I have watched him in a family weekend drama where he had been adorable after some epis. And then I have learned he was in a show called WGM but didnt watch it, only saw a few part from it in YT. Those times was the times I have learned about his being a basketball player, a musical actor, etc... If you write his name in YT you can find his singing too which is gooooddd!! :D This is like you are experiencing one of the your fav underdog actor comes to light and it feels good!! I haven't watched that alien thing and dont watch it.. I haven't even started LG yet, will marathon it after its done, only checking comments if it will go downhill :D

Btw, the funny thing is, yesterday in my first comment here at the open thread, I have posted the other part of the same epi you have posted here from WGM:D

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@ SSR,

Hello there, good to read from you! :-) It sounds like TL is a typical Kdrama story, huh? I would like to check it out for SSR, and the main lead guy, and the female lead, but like you, I don't know if I will, and when I might. So we will see. WOW! Your frustration is really high with those kind of stories. You said you haven't watched too many stories like that. If I may ask, how long have you been watching Kdramas? (Just curious). Maybe you should check out I Do, I Do. The male lead is different in that drama. He is like a 2nd male lead (except he is the male lead), and he gets the girl.

So I see that you have been following SSR's career for a while now, haven't you? You must know a lot about him. I do the same when I like an actor/actress, I read about him/her, and I research his/her past works, bio, etc... So I can understand that person better, and get a sense of who s/he is. Is that why you research the actor/actress as well?
You said this, "(but I’m not from kyaa girls.. no. never..LOL)" Does that mean that you don't consider yourself a crazy fangirl? I do think fangirling is fun though...

Thank you for the recommendation about finding his YT videos where he sings. I will look them up. About this, "This is like you are experiencing one of the your fav underdog actor comes to light and it feels good!!" Did you mean hearing about this drama (LG), or did you mean watching the success that SSR seems to have experienced in the last year? (starting with the "alien thing," as you called it.) I guess SSR was an underdog actor for a while, wasn't he? I am happy to see him soar as well. So you are not planning on watching The Alien show? (with SSR in it)

So how many Kdramas with SSR have you seen so far? (and it sounds like you are not planning on watching YFAS, and you are not sure about Liar Game). lThis was actually funny, "Btw, the funny thing is, yesterday in my first comment here at the open thread, I have posted the other part of the same epi you have posted here from WGM :-) "

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@SSR,
I left you a response with some links, so it is awaiting moderation. I hope you will get to see my comment :-) Thank you again for posting that YT link.

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Hello Shalini,

PART 1:

Sorry, I am only getting to respond to you now. I will be responding to the posts you have written since Friday evening, b/c those are the ones I have not responded to. I will again mark my posts as part 1, 2, 3 etc... until I am done responding to your posts. I will also include your particular post I am responding to. In order to (maybe) read better, do what I do: have 2 DB tabs open, one where you read your posts, and another one where you read my responses. That might help :-) I will also be going by the # in your posts.

I am responding to this: 1.3.3 Shalini November 14th, 2014 at 10:08 PM

#1--I can tell how enthusiastic you are about this show, and I think that's great. I have had the same kind of experience with other shows, so I totally understand. I am also glad that you understand this show well, b/c you are one of the people I can come to with my questions and with my theories. I can basically pick your brain, and you indulge me, which is great! Thanks again for that. (I am also glad you think some of my comments are awesome :-) )

#2--I have not asked any questions on your blog yet. What I posted for you was on this blog, in ep. 7 (I think). I will see if I can find it, and I will give you the link. Would that be OK? I have briefly read your blog, and I am glad to know that I can go back to it. You know, there are only so many hours in the day, and you can already sense how much time I spend here :-) I was just giving you the heads up, for later :-) About the inconsistencies, I will have to think about them, but yeah, I think I found a few (hence my questions :-) ). Also, I am sorry you lost your whole text, on yout blog. Shucks!:-(

#3-- About the rules about the $, thanks for trying to explain. I will have to rewatch that section. Though it was only DG who went into the Treasury, not HWJ. And so it was DG who actually informed HWJ that the $ was not in the Treasury. Remember how HWJ was schocked? Yeah... As I said, I will have to rewatch that section again.

#4--Oh I see (about how the $ was used to campaign by the Prdtial candidates, and the other contestants). Again, I will have to rewatch that section. On 2nd thoughts, I think I should rewatch epis. 7 and 8 in their entirety, to see how much I understand. And then I will get back to you on that :-)

#5--I see (about why Bulldog and actor Gu didn't see that they were being manipulated, and Lawyer Go had the $). Again, will have to rewatch.

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Yeah, this show just appeals to be so elementally, I could watch all the contestants play with cats and remain happy xD The only other shows that swept me up completely to this degree have to be Nodame Cantabile, Three Days and Angel Eyes (<3 LSY) Thanks for the tip! It really makes posting easier, now that I know where I'm going xD Woohoo! Can't wait to see what you've found! This is the kind of show you feel good about outsmarting :P
I just rewatched it and you're right! It is just DG, though he was clearly on HWJ's side so the other's would have suspected betrayal anyway :( Yeah I've been re-watching it as well looking for smaller details and I was wondering, did it seem like Jamie was a little afraid of KDY when he asked her if she thought "the essence of this game was just promises and negotation"?

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@ Shalini, PART 1:

Hello Shalini~

I am responding to your comment above. I hope your week started well, and that you have been able to study Physics. Please, do study, and please do get some work done. I (we) need you, and want you to do well. I know you LOVE LSY. You do know that he has a degree in Physics, right? Girl, you can fail him now :-) (is that enough of a pep talk? B/c if you need more, I would be happy to oblige).

What did you mean here, “Yeah, this show just appeals to be so elementally?” About this, “The only other shows that swept me up completely to this degree have to be Nodame Cantabile, Three Days and Angel Eyes (<3 LSY).” You know, your comment is interesting, b/c although I have not watched NC, I did watch TD (and loved it, though each ep. left me with many questions) and AE (which I also liked a lot). So maybe, at some point, we could both rewatch the last 2 dramas, and discuss them? We could go over some of the questions you might have (if you have any) and (definitely) over the questions that I still have. I would love to discuss those dramas with you. I don’t know when I will watch NC, however if I do, I will let you know. Maybe I could discuss it with you as well then?

About this, “Thanks for the tip! It really makes posting easier, now that I know where I'm going.” You are very welcome, Shalini! :-) I was able to figure out a way to keep up with the comments, and respond to them in a chronological order that made sense, and I thought I would share the tip with you. For me, usually having 2 or 3 tabs opened, about the same recap helps. That way, one tab can be on the comment you are currently responding to (so you don’t have to keep scrolling up and down), and the other tab can stay open on your response (in the reply box, when you are typing your response), so you can keep track of your thoughts, and of how much you have written so far.

Another tip is that I also often type my responses on Word, and then I do a word count (there is an icon on the lower left that would let you check on that), to check on whether my response might be truncated or not, once I post it. If I had been typing on the DB page, and my answer seems to be quite long, then I copy and paste my comment from the DB page to a Word page, and I check the word count. I usually try to have the word count be lower than 3,000 b/c I have noticed that if my word counts is around 2,970 or higher (something like that), my comment gets truncated. I don’t know if you have experienced the same thing. Pay attention to that, and see how it goes for you.

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@ Shalini, PART 2:

About this, “Woohoo! Can't wait to see what you've found! This is the kind of show you feel good about outsmarting.” I am soooooo glad you enjoy reading my comments and responses, it makes it worth the time I take to think, write them, and come back, to see if you (or the other beanies) have responded. About your 2nd sentence, I honestly do NOT feel that I have outsmarted this show. I think it might be the opposite :-) Do you think you have outsmarted this show? I think that in your case, YOU have actually outsmarted the show :-)

Thank you for rewatching the scenes I point out to you, and for noticing the things I noticed :-) About this, “I was wondering, did it seem like Jamie was a little afraid of KDY when he asked her if she thought "the essence of this game was just promises and negotiation?” I am not sure. I will have to rewatch that scene again. I will let you know when I do. Would that be OK?

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@ Shalini, PART 2:

Responding to this: 1.2.1 Shalini November 14th, 2014 at 10:10 PM

#2--About the eliminated contestants suddenly disappearing, yup, let's hope for clearer answers (for all the contestants). I know we got some answers for Beeper Guru and Lawyer GO, but I still want to know WHY they leave so quickly (besides getting money, I am assuming). Why do they HAVE to move? And also Lee Min-jun, yes!

#3--My question about Pres. Bae knowing about DY. Let's hope for some answers there too.

#4--My 8th question: The contestants from 1st game, they got $ or not? at your answer, hum.... OK, so if they were eliminated, they owed $ then, right? 500,000 Won, since they were eliminated (you only pay 1/2 if you quit on your own).

# 5--(my question 9): What did you mean here: "she seemed just as intent on the coin-tossing game as the others." PD Lee was intent, on what?
I hope it is REALLY her show. We will see what happens. I do like that she does try to stand up to both men, even though for now, she has not had any power against them. Let's see what the writers do with her (and with Jamie, the other strong female in the drama).

I am responding to Part 3 now, posted here: 1.3.3.1 Shalini November 15th, 2014 at 8:11 AM

#1--I am glad you see what I saw. And agree with you about how much SSR has grown in a short year. Also testament to his talent and hard work.

#2--About Jamie cooperating, OK.

#3--Loved your thoughts on what I wrote, and LOVED this, "That would definitely signal the start of Kumbaya phase!" So funny, LOL :-) !!!!!!

#4--About Beeper Guru: I watch many of my dramas on viki.com, where I am a subscriber. It's a streaming site available only in some regions and countries, for now *sad panda* You could google it. I don't know how to torrent. What are the advantages of "torrent-ing?" And what is a "subscene?"

OK, Part 4, posted here: 1.3.2.1 Shalini November 15th, 2014 at 8:13 AM

#1--About PD Lee and DY: I think she didn't have enough info on DY (his true personality and possible motives for the LG) to mistrust him as she does now. As smart as she might be, her hunches had to be based on some things, and they are now. She has seen how he has behaved since the beginning of LG, since she has watched him (at least) since the beginning of this show. I think they are more colleagues than "friends," no? That's the sense I get.

#2--I wouldn't be surprised if CSJ liked NDJ, even if a little. There is this way his eyes soften when he looks at her, gahhhhh (gets to me). And he speaks softly, which I also love, personally. He also seems to respect her a lot though. This is one pairing I would not be against :-) She is very caring, and I could see him totally falling for her, and him being (very) good to her :-) *Hides from HWJ-NDJ shippers* And yes, I wish the side characters could be fleshed out better.

#3--You are forgiven :-) (about the fact that I posted my comment about the contestants...

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@ Shalini, part 3 (of my response) from this: (your part 4) posted here: 1.3.2.1 Shalini November 15th, 2014 at 8:13 AM

Sorry, my last comment was truncated:

#3--You are forgiven :-) (about the fact that I posted my comment about the contestants distrusting HWJ before the games in ep. 7 and 8 started).

#4--About why Bulldog and actor Gu were not always siding with HWJ/NDJ:
(btw, going on to your part 5, where you continue your thoughts on why, started in part 4):
about this, "Plus, notice how KDY didn’t approach CSJ. Firstly, he didn’t need too, especially once he had Bulldog and Actor Gu on his side (which already outnumbers HWJ’s team) but secondly he knew that there was no way those tricks would work on CSJ." So that means CSJ uses his brain (but not enough, imho), which is good.
And thanks for explaining. That helped.

#5--About this, "Yup! I wonder if they’ll ever really see it, and what it would take for them to do so." I agree with you... (about Bulldog and actor Gu not seeing that they are being manipulated by DY).

#6--You:"Feel free to ask me any other questions you have about the drama! I love discussing it with you" Awwww... Thanks!!!!!!! :-) I do too (love discussing the drama with you). It really helps that you understand it better than I do, and you are good at explaining things. What do you study, if I may ask? (are you a Science or Language person? Or both?)

#7--(your point 1): Hum... You might have point there. I will have to think more about that (and as I said, rewatch the show :-) ).

#8--Your 2nd point: I think you might be right. I mean, she has seen how DY manipulates Dir. Jang, so hopefully, she will come to realize that she is not immune to DY manipulating her. That would be a great twist btw, if she changed alliances, joined HWJ and NDJ, WHILE fooling (successfully) DY. I wonder if that would be possible. What do you think? I would LOVE to see sth like that.

#9--You: "Thanks for reading my essays xD I honestly write here more than in my university courses xD"
You are very welcome!!!! And thank you for writing those essays. I am hoping that writing such long "essays" is helping improve your writing (and so does reading the recaps and the other beanies' comments). That is how I try to justify my writing such long essays as well, though I know that I just like to be detailed, so people reading me can understand what I am trying to say. I guess I also do like to write.

I hope your week started/will start well. Let's do this again in a few months. Hopefully, I will have more time then to rewatch the drama and talk about the scenes I still couldn't figure out :-)

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...to see him in all his gorgeous brainy beauty xD

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LOL!!!!! :-) Man, you have got it bad, Shalini :-) (And btw, I have read some of your comments on your blog, so yeah, you have got it reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally bad!)

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"Thanks!!!!!!! I do too (love discussing the drama with you). It really helps that you understand it better than I do, and you are good at explaining things. What do you study, if I may ask? (are you a Science or Language person? Or both?)"
Thanks so much! I’m in an honours program called the Arts and Science program, so I get to graduate with both degrees xD All that essay writing really prepared me for analyzing stuff (though it’s so much more fun when it’s something I love as opposed to chemical reactions or F. Scott Fitzgerald xD)

" That would be a great twist btw, if she changed alliances, joined HWJ and NDJ, WHILE fooling (successfully) DY. I wonder if that would be possible. What do you think? I would LOVE to see sth like that.
That would be incredible! I really hope they go with something like that, while showing us more of NDJ, because I really don’t want her to lose to the other characters simply because she’s nice. The incredible scriptwriters surely wouldn’t make her the least complex character in this show, when she’s such a huge part of it, so fingers crossed for game-changing females!

"I am hoping that writing such long “essays” is helping improve your writing (and so does reading the recaps and the other beanies’ comments). That is how I try to justify my writing such long essays as well, though I know that I just like to be detailed, so people reading me can understand what I am trying to say. I guess I also do like to write."
Whoa, that really is spot on! I had to write a couple essays this week as well, and I felt like things just flowed more smoothly, as though the practice of putting my thoughts into words was easing my writing xD And I love to write as well :D Been trying to get a novel out for a while. I'm hoping that agents will take a 19 year old seriously xD

"I hope your week started/will start well. Let’s do this again in a few months. Hopefully, I will have more time then to rewatch the drama and talk about the scenes I still couldn’t figure out."
Absolutely! It’s going to be incredibly sad once this is over, particularly because this drama got me back into Kdramas (and head over heels in love with LSY) by showing me how much they still had to offer. But it’s honestly worth it, seeing so many others who invest time into shows like this and build such a great community!

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Hello again Shalini~

I am responding to this: 1.7.1.2 Shalini November 18th, 2014 at 7:07 AM, again going by paragraphs (#)

#1: You are very welcome! (about my compliment). You know, bth, I am so not surprised that you are in an Honors program, combining Arts and Sciences, at that! Look at you go :-) I am so proud of you!!! Even though I have never "met" you. Please do well, and do well till the end. And when are you graduating? 2015? I have a feeling you will do great things in life. I really do.

#2: Yeah, game-changing females!!!! I won't say anything about that here, b/c I don't want to spoil future readers of this recap, when they read the comments here. But yeah, I am glad that you and I thought that it would be a GREAT and WONDERFUL twist :-) Feel free to touch on this in the ep. 9 recaps's comments :-)

#3: About this, "Whoa, that really is spot on! I had to write a couple essays this week as well, and I felt like things just flowed more smoothly, as though the practice of putting my thoughts into words was easing my writing xD And I love to write as well :D Been trying to get a novel out for a while. I’m hoping that agents will take a 19 year old seriously xD"

I am happy to know that I was "spot on" :-) I also feel relieved that your writing on DB is ACTUALLY helping with writing your essays for school (making your flow easier to come by, or achieve). It makes me feel less worried about you, since I know that you spend quite a bit of time here. At least, you still take care of your priorities. And I am so happy that I am connecting and communicating with someone who loves to write as well. I wish you well for your novel, and for your sake, I do hope that agents will take a 19 year old seriously, as you said. Keep on trying, eventually someone will.

Your last #: I am thrilled you are willing to revisit this drama with me, at a latter time. And about this, "and head over heels in love with LSY" Yes, you are!!!!!! :-)

And about this, "by showing me how much they still had to offer. But it’s honestly worth it, seeing so many others who invest time into shows like this and build such a great community!"
Isn't that the truth? Every so often, you get some dramas that are just so good, you want to get into the screen and shake all the actors/actresses hands, and the director, writer, crew, staff, etc... and give them some of your energy, as they put in long hours to produce great dramas, with the means they have and based on their abilities.

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I feel like they're also getting rid of the contestants so quickly to allow them to keep the show in line with the fact that they've only four episodes left :( It's another reason I wish they'd just make a second season so they don't have to skip past all these answers and leave us with so many questions!

As for the contestants from the first round, I rewatched it and I believe the rules were that you had to pay back any money you'd spent (from your prize money) if you were eliminated. So long as the contestants from the first round hadn't spent any of their 500K, then they just had to return what money they'd been given at the start, back to the broadcasting station. But if they'd spent it, then they'd be in major debt, just like Lee Min Jin.

"What did you mean here: “she seemed just as intent on the coin-tossing game as the others.” PD Lee was intent, on what?"
She seemed really focused on the coin-tossing game and it was after it was over that she seemed to come to the resolution that she wasn't going to let KDY run roughshod over everyone anymore. Almost as if that game was a gamechanger for her xD
xD I really hope the Kumbaya phase comes soon, I can only imagine the look on KDY's face if it does!

I used to use viki but stopped about six months ago after discovering that torrenting was faster. The videos are ridiculously high quality (plus I keep them on my hard drive for ever and ever! xD) Here's the site I use! I've linked you to the liar game thread. The videos come out on the same day the episodes to and there's various resolutions you can pick. I personally recommend the ones that end in -WITH. You'll need to click any one of the three arrows under the 'magnet heading'. A small torrent file will download. If you have a torrent client like qbittorent (the one I use), just double click on the file and it'll open in the client and begin to download.
The subtitles come out the next day though on a website called subscene. http://subscene.com/subtitles/liar-game-laieo-geim These are also by video title. Look for the one that says 'comptabile with all versions' or the one that ends in -WITH and download it. Then using Windows Media Player or VLC Media player (my preferred choice as it plays HD videos really well) you just open the video, and then open the subtitles! xD Each episode is about 1GB so I recommend you have a lot of memory on your computer, if you choose to try this out! I just love seeing HWJ in HD xD

And yeah, they did seem to be more colleagues than friends at first, but then he said "I chose you as my partner, not Dir. Jang." That made me super curious as to how that even came about xD

I can actually also see a CSJ x NDJ pairing being viable in the future :( LSY just heats up my screen like crazy, to the point where I just want him to defeat the baddie and get the girl xD Ah well, even if the Daddy-Long Legs romance is toned down here, I can just re-watch Angel Eyes to see him...

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@ Shalini~

I will be responding to this: Shalini November 16th, 2014 at 9:56 PM and to this: Shalini November 16th, 2014 at 9:56 PM

#1: I liked what you said in this #. I too would have loved to have more answers. Hopefully the show will make more sense by the time it is wrapped up. Do you think it will? Let's hope so.

#2: Do you think that for the contestants, a big part of their major debt (if they had spent some of the money), would be the interest on the money they owed? DG said in a previous ep. (when he was talking to NDJ) that at least, JVN would not charge big interest rates, the way Money Money Company did. Though HWJ was quick to disagree with him, since the contestants would still be in a lot of trouble (which was why HWJ didn't want NDJ to spend her prize money, ESPECIALLY since it wasn't hers yet, not until the final round).

#3: Thank you for explaining what you meant there. And about the Kumbaya Phase, yeah :-) it would be great if it comes. And I don't want to say more, again so we don't spoil future readers of this recap.

#4: Thank you for telling me about torrenting. Someone on another site had told me about those, a couple of years ago, but we never got to her actually explaining to me how to go about it.

I did try to follow your instructions, and I still felt lost and very unsure. I will try this again when I have the time, and I will let you know, so that you may once again, walk me through that process (if you don't mind). If the images are as HD as you say they are (which I TOTALLY believe, btw), I would really love to be able to use torrents. It sounds to me like those images would be better than the HD option viki has to offer (which doesn't always look like HD images, tbh).

I think I do have some memory on my computer (quite a bit). In the 5 years I have had my computer, I have only used less than 1/2 the amount of space I have on my hard drive. I was thinking of getting an external hard drive, specifically for this purpose. Do you think it would be a good idea?
For me, I would love to see LSY in really great HD, in the drama AE. His acting was also quite good in that drama.

#5: See, I don't think that PD Lee and KDY were ever friends. I don't get that sense. I don't think KDY is friends with anyone, tbh. I don't think HE KNOWS how to make friends, especially since he has a God-complex, and he is more interested in controlling people's lives, and manipulating them like dices, or playing them like the violin.
Also when KDY said this, "I chose you as my partner, not Dir. Jang." I now look at it as PD Lee being someone else KDY wanted to manipulate for his own purposes. He said that he "chose her, as a partner," yet he NEVER listened to her objections? Come on, what kind of (real partnership) is that?

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http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/torrents.php?search=liar+game&type=&sub=View+all&sort=
Whoops! forgot to link you to the site xD This has all Liar Game episodes and pretty much every single Japanese, Korean and Taiwanese drama in history xD
And here's a super fast torrent client, should you need decide to try this out! Everything's free here (and virus-free) so don't worry xD
http://www.qbittorrent.org/download.php
Plus I'm not sure if you're an Angel Eyes fan, but the site also has the entire series in HD. It's 15.4GB but I downloaded it last night and failed (spectacularly) to study to physics thanks to LSY's gorgeous gentleness and GHS's beauty.

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hey! so sorry to be hogging your comment like this, but just wondering if anyone could explain why HWJ's 2nd promise is made false? wasn't his 2nd promise to distribute everything in the safe and if there's nothing in the safe, wouldn't it still be true even if his supporters/voters gets nothing?

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Poor Woo Jin he was owned by Do Young. This is getting exciting.

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@ MIKAN,
I really loved your 2 sentences, and how different they were from each other. "Poor Woo Jin he was owned by Do Young": this is actually bad, and sad. (on the other hand), "this is getting exciting": this is good, (even though WJ was owned by DY)
Don't mind me, I just thought it was funny.

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Honestly, this drama is a bit too complicated for me. My brains seem to be working overtime trying to figure out all the plots, who is lying, etc. Though I have to say, DY and WJ are fantastically good in the drama.

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@ sangay choeden,
This, I relate to: "Honestly, this drama is a bit too complicated for me. My brains seem to be working overtime trying to figure out all the plots, who is lying, etc"

As much as I am enjoying parts of this drama, other parts are just challenging for me to understand.

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Yeah, I can't decide if that's because the show is too complex for us or if it's too complex for itself- they are trying to be really clever but aren't always completely clear on their own logic. Sometimes it seems that the explanations are a little fuzzy. But when I think it over again and read the recaps I usually understand what was happening, so maybe it IS just that smart of a show. Either way, I think they could work on how they present the games to the viewers so we can get it and feel smart too- the Japanese version was very good at that. That said, I think this episode did the best job out of all of them so far at presenting all the nuances of the game, so good job!

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@ Pearl~ai88,

I really liked everything you said, especially this:

"Yeah, I can’t decide if that’s because the show is too complex for us or if it’s too complex for itself- they are trying to be really clever but aren’t always completely clear on their own logic. Sometimes it seems that the explanations are a little fuzzy."

I haven't seen the J. Versions yet, however I keep reading how (much) clearer they were at explaining the games.

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haha i do agree that they are not explaining things well enough for the audience. i feel like i only know what's going on because i've watched the J version of this! the J version really did a good job explaining everything imo.
BUT the K version did a very good job twisting the setting and giving the characters personalities and background stories, which i love~~! so glad i decided to continue watching this!

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Again, another solid episode. I got chills all over! It was so intense, I had my hand covering my eyes during Do Young's last scene because he was so creepy!

Ugh! Why are the ratings so low? With well written story , great characters all around ( not to mention Lee Sang Yoon and Shin Sung Rok giving us double hotness.. LOL), I feel that this drama isn,t getting its due credit. For me, it is one of the better dramas we had in a while.

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Well, over 1% is okay for a cable program.

But having said that, Liar Game is not an average show and deserves much higher ratings.

I think the problem is that kdrama watchers aren't really the right demographic for mind-bending thrillers with only hints of romance. Drama audiences (generally) want something with lots of heart, better-than-life escapism (like rich hot guy mindlessly obsessed with plain poor girl). Liar Game *does* have heart, lots of it, but it is also powered by a fundamentally pessimistic view of humanity (that the average man is powerless before money, and will cheat/lie/kill for it).

If this show aired in the US right now, it'd probably do really well. LG could rival Orphan Black/Mad Men/Breaking Bad in terms of writing, direction, and cinematography. Only thing that doesn't work so well is Da Jung as a character; I wish she can be good and honest without fading out into an de-personalized symbol.

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Very well said @Yvian. Liar Game is not really the usual cup of tea of korean audiences, and its genre is also nowhere near the recent kdrama hits in the past months/years. Being aired in a cable station also doesn't help much in terms of its availability to a much larger audience and its publicity altogether.

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LOL at your screen name...

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@ Yvian Hi,
What did you mean by "de-personalized symbol" when you said this, "I wish she can be good and honest without fading out into an de-personalized symbol?"

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@Ivoire

Well .. maybe not "de-personalized symbol" but "dehumanized symbol"?

Dehumanized because she doesn't really seem like a real person, and doesn't really have a personality. I mean, sure, you can say that she's honest and nice, and that's her personality. But her honestness and niceness is presented in an archetypical manner; she's so similar to every "honest" and "nice" Kdrama heroine ever.

When I wrote "symbol" I meant that she symbolizes the myth of female helplessness that Asian dramas keep on perpetuating. There are so many shows where the main character is an innocent, powerless young girl (powerless because she's so *nice* and other people keep on stepping over her; powerless because she's so *poor*, and must play the role of Cinderella). Her narrative is defined and changed by the moment the two leading men step into her life.

That helplessness is made worse by the intense juxtaposition against intelligent, interesting male characters. She's so plain; he's so *hot*. She's so dumb; he's a genius. She's damn poor and working 2384729847 side jobs; he's the CEO/professor/celebrity/mastermind in a position of immense socioeconomic privilege.

I know Da Jung is based on Nao from the original (who's really not that bright either). But in this remake, the writer did such awesome things with Woo Jin, Dal Goo, Jamie, Do Young, and PD Lee. Is it too much to wish that Da Jung was similarly awesome? Honesty/goodness shouldn't be mutually exclusive with awesomeness. Like, you can be a good person, and still be interesting and awesome.

Case in point: Dal Goo. He's a honest-to-god fluffy teddy bear of goodness. But god his fashion sense is hilarious (the shirts! the gold gangster jewelry!). That and his uncouth, lower-class, street-wise sensibility is comedic gold. And then you find out he went to jail for a girlfriend. It's dumb of him, but it's something I can imagine happening and genuinely invest in emotionally.

I also love Jamie and PD Lee. Kdramas really, really need more unconventional female characters. It'd be so cool if Da Jung formed more substantial relationships with these cool women. Her life so far is defined by relations to men (her dad! Woo Jin! Dal Goo! Do Young!). Why is her mother conveniently absent? Why doesn't she have reliable, brave girlfriends? There is absolutely nothing unrealistic about women helping women, and I want to see it more in dramas.

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Agree! I hope they won't stick on Nao's character and spice up Da jung's character more. K-ver Liar Game did awesome things with Woo Jin, Dal Goo, Jamie, PD Lee and especially Do Young! Like come on! Da Jung is the lead and yet she's so bland. I love KSE but every time I watch this, I totally forget about her. Even PD Lee is stealing the spotlight because her character is more interesting.

Come on writers let Da Jung brings some spice on the show!

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@ Yvian, PART II:

That was why I really liked the male lead in I Do, I Do (for example), b/c he was like a 2nd male lead, who got the girl. So the male lead can be aggressive, yet the female lead is usually expected to be as you said, powerless, weak, gentle, and meek.
Another strong, independent female lead was the one in Gu Family Book.

3-# 4: I totally agree with you, and I wish the same things.

4-#5: "But god his fashion sense is hilarious (the shirts! the gold gangster jewelry!). That and his uncouth, lower-class, street-wise sensibility is comedic gold."
DG's fashion sense also strike me as part of his personality, and the actor portraying him is doing a wonderful job bringing this character to life, and giving him heart, which are some of the reasons why we care so much about DG. And he excels at comedy, imho.

5-#6 (and last one): once again, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I too do love Jamie and PD Lee. I am glad we have them in this drama. I love your idea of NDJ forming alliances or maybe friendships with them. I wonder if the writers thought of that, and if we could see something like that in this drama.

I also loved your question about NDJ's mother being absent, and we don't know why. We are left to guess as to why that may be (another thing that often happens in Kdramas). In an earlier ep., PD Lee said she would help NDJ (she kind of hinted at that), so I don't know if it was just supposed to be WRT her dad. Yeah, it would be nice to see more (good) female friendships in Kdramas.

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ia though I would argue that Nao was more progressive I liked that she grew and did learn to lie particularly in the second season of the jdrama, she has her own ideas and doesn't rely entirely on the Woo Jin/Akiyama character, she exhibited more independent thought than Da Jung does at the moment. Da Jung lacks anything of her own (sad back story aside) which is disappointing because I thought she started well and was smarter than Nao at points but she's been shifted to the back in favour of Woo Jin and Do Young.

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Yeah! It would be awesome if PD Lee and NDJ teamed up or something! As much as I love DJ, she barely had any screentime these past two episodes as well. And I couldn't help wondering how on earth she was supposed to hold her own against people of KDY, Jamie, HWJ and PD Lee's character. But there was something curious at the end of this episode that gave me pause. Notice how DJ tried to stop HWJ from playing against KDY. She said "it doesn't feel right.". What if naive heroine's radar was useless against others, but on point with KDY? If would be one hell of a twist if she turned out to be the only one who could read him or something xD Just guesses all around, but I'm sure NDJ's moment is coming, this show has given us so many awesome female, I can't help but be sure that she will rise to the occasion as well!

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@ Shalini,

I do hope that NDJ's moment is coming, as you said. I also agree with you that it would be an awesome twist if NDJ were the one (the only one?) who could read DY, even when he "holds/freezes" his micro-expressions. Speaking of which, I have been thinking of what it might have required of SSR to act like his face was not moving at all. I am sure the editing team had a lot to do with that scene as well (and the director too), but still it must have taken some work to achieve that (all parties involved). Kudos to (all of) them.

I just thought of sth: what if (for the 2nd season, since some of you guys are asking for one :-) ), HWJ teamed up with NDJ, and they went through the games with their strong points, HWJ with how he can read people, and NDJ with how she "senses" things? (female intuition?) Or you know, they could just have their own drama, where their romantic line would be developed (and show how HWJ deeply falls for NDJ and vice versa), and become partners in their investigative agency, helping the police solve crime (all kinds, white collar crime, murderous crimes, etc...) with their (different) detecting lying skills, since they would be complementing each other.

@ Shalini, you guys are giving me wild ideas :-)

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@ Yvian,

Thank you for your answer! (for taking the time to be so detailed). I really loved all that you wrote, and all the points you made. I will address my comments and refer to you in the paragraphs they are in (#) so as not to copy and paste too much (more than I feel the need to).

1--# 2: "Her narrative is defined and changed by the moment the two leading men step into her life. " So true, unfortunately. And that might be why the strong kind of female leads in Kdramas (I have mostly watched Kdramas so far, so I can only comment on them, for now) seem to be the exception, not the rule. Think Kim Na-na (City Hunter). Though LMH's character did invest in her financially (paying her dad's hospital bills, buying her apartment), and saved her (ep.18, and at the store), she WAS his equal, and he treated her as such. She became his Girlfriday, as the recappers called her here. She challenged his dad on his behalf, putting herself in danger, and she was almost killed b/c of him (twice). She helped him (in any way she could) with his missions, and she voluntarily took a bullet for him, willing to die, if it came to that (and she didn't have to).

What I also noticed in that drama, was that whenever there was conflict or a fight/disagreement between the two lead, LMH (his character) NEVER let things fester. He always (within 24 hrs or at the most 48hrs) sought her out, to explain why he did what he did, and what he was thinking (if he could share that info with her). He always made things right between them, and I loved that about him. He did that after the hotel misunderstanding, and when the picture case broke. Those are the 2 instances I can think of right now. He didn't let things fester between them. Did you see that drama? If you did, did you notice that?

Another character many of us loved was KHA of TK2Hs. She was LJH's equal, and she could kick his butt (and he knew it). She advised him, and he sought her, even when he didn't realize that he was falling in love with her. I also loved that after ep.12 (when he proposed to her), they were a team, going forward. There was no noble idiocy, no stupid /dumb conflicts to keep them apart. Their obstacles/challenges were external (not created by them), and they faced them together. So I totally hear what you are saying. Did you see that drama as well?

2--# 3: "That helplessness is made worse by the intense juxtaposition against intelligent, interesting male characters."
An additional thing is that the men being aggressive (and sometimes abusive/violent) seems to be excused, and even (maybe) encouraged, what with the wrist grabs, the (sometimes) forced kisses (how is that love?), the pushing the female back hard, the putting her down (and that is affectionate. maybe it is, depending on how it is said), etc... The guy who is gentle, kind, understanding usually does not get the girl (2nd male lead) *Sigh* That was why I really liked the male lead in I Do, I Do (for example),...

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@ Yvian,
Sorry, my answers are in the wrong order.

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@Ivoire

Definitely agree with you about City Hunter and TK2H (I haven't seen I Do, I Do).

I like relationships that carry clout behind the attraction. Like my mind needs to be convinced that the feelings and romantic tension is actually legit, and not manufactured out of thin air. It helps when the hero and heroine are well-matched.

When I say well-matched I don't mean that she needs to be hot because he's hot. Or that she needs to be brilliant because he's a genius. I like situations where the girl and the boy each bring something to the table. Like he could be a field prize winner in mathematics, but she kicks ass and is street smart.

I hope Da Jung develops her 'powers' soon. Shalini mentions that she has a Kang Do Young radar. That'd be cool. The idea is that having an intuitive grasp of the world can be very valuable. There are things that can't be quantified or studied objectively; somethings you just know.

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@ Yvian,

You know, I Do, I Do was not a perfect drama (few of them usually are, as we know), however I really liked the male lead in that drama. He really was like a 2nd male lead, in the way he treated KSA's character, and in how he was devoted to her. It was endearing.

I agree with what you said in your first 2 paragraphs, and I feel the same way. About your 3rd paragraph, I don't know that I believe that NDJ has a full on KDY's radar (yet). She did sense that sth was wrong with what KDY was suggesting to HWJ. That much, I will give NDJ. I would like to see where the writer(s) take that, if they develop that angle at all. I think it would be great if they did, please read my comment, above about some interesting ideas I had regarding such a turn of events. Here:
4.1.2.1.5 Ivoire November 15th, 2014 at 1:10 PM

I also agree with this, "The idea is that having an intuitive grasp of the world can be very valuable. There are things that can’t be quantified or studied objectively; some things you just know," which was why I said if the writer(s) were to develop that angle for NDJ, that would be great. And in the process, if HWJ would learn (or realize) that text (or book) knowledge is not the only knowledge, maybe he would learn something as well, and he might appreciate NDJ more.

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thank you for the recap! this ep had me equal parts gasp-y, equal parts cry-y (DAL GOO DAMMIT - i'm a little tipsy rn, proper english is not my priority), and equal parts omfg do-young.

great episode wheeeeeee~

(and dude, this drama keeps me guessing! wtf does this say about do-young's parents? was do-young adopted out to walden two from woo-jin's mom's orphanage? *initiating conspiracy theories*)

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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO @ orphanage conspiracy theory * eyes gloss over at the idea* * fans self* that would be brilliant and it would also explain a lot.

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If it was a Walden community than I don't think it was an orphanage. From what I can tell Skinner did not believe in love or the need for family bonding. He thought children should be raised separately from parents by the community and that all love was is just positive reinforcement.

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Oh, and they were taught to control their thoughts in those communities somehow. Bad thoughts were thought to be the real cause of unhappiness and not that your life was actually bad or something.

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OOOOOh interesting theory you have there! Thinking he would be adopted to a family in the US he was actually going to Walden Two.. ooooooooohhhh. If he was from Walden Two, how did he get out? Why did he get out? Did he think Woo-Jin's mum had anything to do with him going to Walden Two?

So different from the original story but i like this fresh take on why this whole game was created in the first place.

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These are some really good questions. If DY lived in HWJ's mom orphanage for a while, was the mom lied to, when DY was taken away (as you said, told that a good family wanted to adopted him in the US?) Also, as an adult, did DY resent HWJ's mom for letting him leave the orphanage (even though she probably didn't know what would have happened once DY came to the US?) DY could still be angry about that. Did DY set HWJ's mom to be taken advantage of, since he knew the kind of woman she was? (she couldn't say "no" to someone who needed help). And maybe that was DY's way of "punishing her?" For "abandoning" him?

The other questions that I have is, if DY managed to flee from Walden Two, what did he have to do to not be caught or found out? Did he change his name? Who helped him, once he got out? Since he was still in the US, and alone, apparently. And we know that eventually, he got into good schools in the US, went all the way to a PhD., and apparently did well for himself (DY is the one financing the Liar Game [the prize money, and the money for each game?], isn't he?) What about the money the contestants seem to be getting as they leave? Who gives that to them?

A big twist for me would be to find out that DY is actually doing good, with the game and to people (like giving money to the Assemblyman's Aide to fund his campaign, though HWJ said something about that money, which didn't sound good. I can't remember right now what he said. All I know is that it didn't sound good. Something about the origins of that money, or where that money was going).
Though if DY is actually doing good (his intentions being "noble", as he told PD Lee), why does he need to manipulate (and control) everyone around him?

Having written my questions, I see that I have some of the questions Dee has.

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These are some fantastic questions! Whoa, this would make the show even more epic. To go off on a what if tangent.
I was actually taking a different track, could WooJin's mom actually have had something to do with the Walden Two project? Perhaps it was a misguided attempt on her part to help all the orphans. Then what WJ told DJ about his mom insisting that all the other kids were her kids as well, would take on a much darker meaning.

If a tie does exist between the orphanage, KDY, HWJ and his mother, then things start to get weird. How on earth is it that both KDY are so incredibly clever? Having two geniuses tied together by a shared past, cannot simpyl be coincedent (as we have learned from this show) Could there have been something more to HWJ's childhood? He did tell NDJ that he didn't really remember his time at the orphanage.

In addition, what if KDY was trying to entice HWJ to join him rather than antagonize him? I'm not sure who brought this up in a previous ep recap,( I think it may have been you, Ivoire) but someone mentioned that KDY seems to expect a lot of DY. He said something along the lines of "I'll be disappointed if he doesn't make it." (Of course, this simply means that he's enjoying the battle of wits) but going with the conspiracy theory here, what if he's setting a bunch of hoops for WJ to jump through and waiting at the finish line?

I also can't wait to find out how he escaped and whether Fortuneteller Pippi's words were true. "You have a dog's fortune!" Did he have a master back then?

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@ Shalini,

Yes, (about your 3rd #), I was the one who made that comment. I do think that DY expects a lot from HWJ, b/c he KNOWS what HWJ is made of (genius, talented, very educated, etc...), and he enjoys seeing how far he can push him. The other people are no match for DY, not even Jamie, I think (maybe PD Lee, but she is not powerful, not yet). DY wants to see if HWJ can be his equal, and to what extent? (I don't think DY thinks HWJ is though. But he thinks HWJ is very close). Or does the world/universe belongs to DY? That is how I am reading DY and his interactions with HWJ.

I do think DY enjoys the challenges, and pushing HWJ's buttons, but it is more than that. In this dramaverse, there does not seem to be ANYONE on DY's level, except for HWJ. Thing is though, that DY's constant provoking of HWJ might/could actually bring about his demise. I guess we will find out about that, eventually. "DY should be careful of what he wishes for... And the Pandora box he is opening" (the ways in which he is revealing himself to HWJ) (Said Fortuneteller Ivoire :-) )

I guess when you have a God-complex, you think no one can bring you down, or beat you.

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part 2:
" Though if DY is actually doing good (his intentions being “noble”, as he told PD Lee), why does he need to manipulate (and control) everyone around him?"
I believe it's his God-complex in action. He sort of spreads the disease and doles out the cure. The others, not knowing that he's responsible for the former, thinks he's the bee's knees for the latter. And he enjoys the power it gives him over these people.

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@ Shalini,

WOW!!!!! SO. WELL. SAID!!! And so well explained. Thank you! That totally makes sense, especially this, "I believe it’s his God-complex in action. He sort of spreads the disease and doles out the cure." Though everything else you say is on point :-)
I just LOVE how the beanies help me understand things better, and read these characters. I love this kind of schooling :-) Now, if I could just download the Korean language into my brain, as a friend of mine says, things would great :-)

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Awww! Thanks! I couldn't find a reply button to your earlier comment so I'll just respond here xD
Yes to everything you just said. ESPECIALLY THAT second season. They should hire you as a scriptwriter or something xD On one hand I love the way this drama is so tautly written, and how romance doesn’t have to be inserted into every moment. But these two really do have strong chemistry, as evidenced in even those few quiet moments sprinkled throughout the episodes. As Korea isn’t like Japan in terms of leads teaming up in new dramas, I really hope that they decide to go God’s Quiz with this or something, and bring back the actors for a new season! LSY and SSR especially seem to really be enjoying their roles, and it’s a vastly different role from LSY’s usual ones as well (though I absolutely adored him in Angel Eyes), so it would be great if we could continue to see these sides of them.

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LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!!! Thanks Heads!

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THIS. SHOW. IS. AWESOME. *inhales to calm nerves* I cannot express my feelings fully but Heads you did a pretty good job of putting my feelings into words.

There MUST be a second season. 4 epsiodes is simply not enough to unravel the complexity of what ep 8 has hinted at. @ Ivoire SSR's absolutely magnificent performance has got to rated among the BEST Kdrama villain depictions OF ALL TIME. The man is breathtakingly frightening. I agree 100% with you.

This persons behind the scenes of this drama need to be applauded.Its so amazing to see them create a completely different world that pays homage to the original by turning some of the key plot elements on their heads and MAKING IT WORK BEAUTIFULLY. The coin toss which was not in the original was absolutely GENIUS. I was screaming at WOO JIN this is too easy , he's giving false tells ( sure enough i was right). When a story doesn't change the scenery or introduce any new characters manages to pull in like this you know you have Drama gold.

I know there are still many nay sayers but i honestly don't know how that's possible after watching this show ( especially this episode). Im so sucked into the drama, mystery and stunning villainy that I'm not even that concerned with shipping HWJ and NDJ (still want it but im glad theres not much focus on it). Sigh i dont think i should say any more Im done... until ep 9 . D - 5 days

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PLEASE DRAMA GODS I WILL SELL MY KIDNEY TO HELP FINANCE A SECOND SEASON. THIS HOW IS SO GOOD!!!

lol .. as long as Kang Do Young doesn't order the Money Money gang to harvest my organs..

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Lolol

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@ Yvian, this is funny!

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Loooool

This is probably funniest line I have read in any commend section here in DB!!

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@ shountypoo, Hello!!!!! :-)

Thank you for the shoutout :-) I am glad you understand the show, because I don't. I understand the human and relationship sides of the drama (OK, I understand them to an extent), however I get lost with what happens during the games. That leaves me confused and frustrated, because I do try to understand the rules, and how they are used, or bent *Sigh*

About this, "@ Ivoire SSR’s absolutely magnificent performance has got to rated among the BEST Kdrama villain depictions OF ALL TIME. The man is breathtakingly frightening. I agree 100% with you."
Thank you for agreeing with me. KDY is SOOOO entertaining, and SSR looks like he is relishing this role. I sure hope he is, he should! I understand why some beanies say that SSR/KDY steal the show, because I think they do. I didn't think they did, at the beginning of the drama. However in the last 3 or 4 epis., I personally think they have.

It sounds like you have seen the J. Dorama, or read the manga. Have you? Was the coin toss a trick that KDY used to essentially buy time until the elections? And prevent HWJ to prove his innocence? I think that was what Heads said, right?

About this, "I was screaming at WOO JIN this is too easy , he’s giving false tells ( sure enough i was right)." I 1st watched the ep. raw, and I did the same thing, telling HWJ that DY was misleading him (when DY kept getting points). He knew what HWJ would rely on, his lying detector skills. KDY would not have sucked him in (into playing), if he didn't have a plan. Come on, this is KDY we are talking about. You have to watch out, and think twice, when he makes you a proposition.

It's great to see your enthusiasm :-) Keep on enjoying the show. And please, if you think you could help me figure out the answers to my questions, share your knowledge and understanding with us :-)

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I think the last scene showing Do Young covering his face manipulating his facial expressions is more him taking off his metaphorical mask and revealing his true persona, then putting the mask back on. As a result, this is why he is capable of controlling his micro-expressions so well (because he suppresses his true expressions behind his mask). This is again supported by the photograph where it shows the kids covered with masks.

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After starting to watch Liar Game I also started to watch a variety show called Genius 3 on TvN and I actually found the games in that show even more complicated than those in Liar Game; but of course creepy element is zero for that variety show whereas in the drama it's shooting up with every new episode.

I found SSR's performance a level up from YWFAS - probably because Do-Young's character is actually a more layered and well-thought work from the writer. The game from these last 2 episodes is original and together with this original twist in the last 5 mins of Ep 8 I really need to give a major credit to this writer. He's capable of bringing his own original plots that merges well with the manga story's theme. The manga actually has revealed so very little of the organizer of the Liar Game but this part won't work in tv drama with an aim to make proper closure (in opposite to the Jpn market that probably is aiming to make endless sequels). So I found this last plot twist a very smart strategy to make this TV adaptation work.

And again, thanks to Heads for the recap and comments! You totally deserve well-thought TV dramas like this one!

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I watch "The Genius" too and I totally agree. The main matches are wayyyy harder to understand. Probably why the games in Liar Game don't seem all that complex to me XD

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I have been watching genius all through season 1 to season 3. I strongly recommend the genius season 1. The cast are a lot more well rounded for there isn't really a sure winner, plus the games are more interesting. Just telling you for you seem interested:)

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Thanks! I'll try to find the videos! I've been hearing good comments on Season 1 of the show.

But I'd admit I'm pretty impressed with the Hyun-Min & Dong-Min combo in Season 3 lol

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KANG DO YOUNG IS EVERYTHING. He is all the good and bad in this world combined. And Shin Effing Sung-rok is playing him to a tee. He’s so mind-blowingly perfect as this character it’s screwing my brains up. In a great way, obviously… most of the time. I think. (I really don’t know anymore, I’m having problems knowing which way is up tbh.)

And lest we forget how great this episode is in terms of spotlighting other characters, we get why Dal-goo Ajusshi’s so attached to Dajung and it’s BEAUTIFUL. He’s beautiful. I’ve never been too emotionally drawn to a secondary character before like I do to Dal-goo Ajusshi and it’s really just a testament to how great this show is across the board on all aspects. Now I want a spin-off series featuring his character as the lead! Dramagods! Please make this happen STAT!

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I KNOW RIGHT! That scene had me tearing up as well, even HWJ looked stricken. DalGoo is just so different, and with so much heart, and you really see that he doesn't want DY to endure the betrayal and pain he's face from the world.

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@ Shalini,

Count on you to NOTICE EVERY facial expression made by LSY/HWJ (reminds me of my Angel Eyes days :-) So I feel you).
Also, you meant NDJ, right? Not DY (Here "you really see that he doesn’t want DY to endure the betrayal and pain he’s face from the world.") I don't think DG cares about DY that much. He cursed him in an earlier ep. :-)

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Ahaha! So true! I meant to write NDJ there xD Oh dear, DY is more certainly that least misunderstood character here :P

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I thought so... :-)

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This is getting creepier than I've ever imagined.... hands up to SSR, KDY is definitely a better (and sexier) villain compared to SSR role in YWCFTS.
And I love that HWJ is not always the 'lead' role. KDY really takes his spot in this episode. I love seeing the vulnerable HWJ, proving that he's a mere human despite his stoic look (and I just realized it's the mirror of KDY who seems 'normal' but empty inside). This is getting very very interesting, and like everyone else, I honestly can't predict where the story will lead us since 'orphanage' conspiracy doesn't seem to be true.

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I swear, I did not get one iota of work done today and I regret nothing xD Can't wait to respond to everyone on the ep 7 recap and this one! (Got to get some sleep first though)
Finally got my thoughts down on this episode.
https://anunstoppablesun.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/holy-cow-episode-8-of-liar-game/
I don't know how many people have seen the episode 9 preview but here's the link and some analysis on what this may mean for HWJ and NDJ.
https://anunstoppablesun.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/liar-games-preview-for-episode-9/
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1556589941240736&set=vb.1526718854227845&type=2&theater
Thank you so much to all those who read my analysis of ep 7! It means the world to me to know I'm not alone in loving this wonderful show!

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Thanks for the link for the ep. 9 preview. After going with an original game, the President Game, this Liar Game is going o continue with a game (The Smuggling/Contraband Game) that was in the manga and japanese drama.

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Thanks Shalini for the preview and thoughts on how episode 9 may turn out. I enjoyed reading it! I like to think that NDJ is too nice of a person to turn against WJ even if she learns that he is behind her father becoming poor. She is grateful for everything WJ has done for her and probably won't be able to betray him (She may remain angry at him for sometime though). Also WJ didn't specifically target her dad. She knows that he destroyed the company to avenge his mom's death. If I remember correctly, DY did tell her that during the dinner. Now I have no idea how DY will work on her mind; he is capable of extreme manipulation. I'm gonna hope that DJ won't fall for his tricks.

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I agree, even if she does feel betrayed (and I wouldn’t blame her) I think she’ll figure out pretty quickly that Woo Jin just wants to protect her (as her faithful and vicious dog *GAH* I want one of him).
I think Da Jung’s naive, but I don’t think she’s stupid. She’s shown that she can adapt and she’s learning not to be too naive, even though it doesn’t seem to agree with her. The fact that she seemed to be worried about Woo Jin agreeing to the coin toss shows that she does have some misgivings about Do Young, as well as the fact that she wasn’t completely at ease when they had dinner together, while on the other hand, her trust in Woo Jin is so complete that she doesn’t at all doubt his decisions, even if he may not explain them to her until after the fact. So, things might get rough for a bit, but I’m confident that they’ll come out of it safe and sound. :)

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Hear! Hear! I hope for the same things...

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@ abc,

Loved everything you said, especially this,

"And I love that HWJ is not always the ‘lead’ role. KDY really takes his spot in this episode. I love seeing the vulnerable HWJ, proving that he’s a mere human despite his stoic look (and I just realized it’s the mirror of KDY who seems ‘normal’ but empty inside)."

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I'm really enjoying this version of Liar Game, but I don't like how Ha Woo Jin has the lie detecting ability. It gives him a huge advantage over the other contestants with Do Young being the exception of course. Also, it makes this more realistic take on Liar Game less realistic to some extent. In the manga and j-drama, his character didn't have this ability and had to rely only on his intelligence.

This Liar Game possibly being Do Young's social experiment seems really intriguing though.

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Well, the thing is, with this recent development, we see that him having the lie-detecting ability is actually really important to this remake. Because he's the only one who can sense that Do-young can control his micro-expressions. He's finally up against someone he can't read and that's what's thrilling about it. If they didn't set up this villain for him, then perhaps I'd agree. But it's not like it's a supernatural ability or anything, he is using his intelligence if you think about.

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I understand that his ability is important to this remake with Do Young being the villain. I know it's not a supernatural ability, but it seems like it. In this remake, which seems to be set in the real world unlike in the j-drama, Woo Jin's ability seems to be out of place.

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Reading facial expressions isn't an impossible ability. It's definitely hard and a challenge, but with time people can learn how to read facial expressions. Have you heard the television show "Lie to Me"? It's about a man who runs a firm and works cases by detecting people's facial expressions to see if they're lying or not. It's not just lying, but indications of other emotions like fear, joy, anger, sadness, etc.

Lie to Me may be a television show, but it's actually based off a real man, Paul Ekman who does study facial expressions. I think he offers training courses/seminars as well.

Considering that Woo Jin's young for a professor and he's pretty much a genius, I don't really see it as a far stretch, imo.

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Wow this series is blowing me away episode after episode after episode....sooo goooood soo very very goooood.....Do young is one scary man....I was actually creeped out when he did that whole do I look like I am lying look... (I am totally making it my wallpaper cos that was just creepy hot :p ) this is only going to spur woo jin I am so so looking forward to him upping him game and maybe taking do young down a peg or two....hmmm I wonder how do young will react to that the emotionless master manipulator that he is....cant wait cant wait!!!!

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OOOHHH...Kang Do Young gives me chills... Freaking intense...he seem soo enthralling in a way that your brain says run away but you just stare in horror at whats coming at you. The JDrama did not focus a lot on background of liar game relying much more on how Akiyama counters his opponents. Watching Ha Woo Jin lose was intense.

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So I have decided that from now on Do-young and Jaime will be known as Hades and Persephone.
Dal-goo ajhussi is the sweetest most cushiest thing I adore him.
I could tell Do-young was losing to Woo-jin on purpose during the first round of that coin toss, it just seemed way too easy.
Shin Sung-rok is terribly amazing in this role, I cannot even....
This show needs more screen-time.

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then Dal Goo is Charon! the kind centaur! but would that be ominous...? oh and is Woo Jin ...uh, no not Prometheus. or yes. he already suffered, so now it is a way up, I guess. towards freedom.

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Shin Sung Rok as Kang Do Young is possibly the best performance in a Kdrama (that I've seen). Really, really entertaining. And really, really brilliant. He's like an embodiment of "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

I used to think he's the goofiest looking dude ever. But somehow this show makes him so charismatic??!?!

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Agree!! The dude gives me chills. He deserves some recognition for this! And the actress playing Jamie. They made the show.

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"I used to think he's the goofiest looking dude ever."
I completely agree. Even his villany in YFAS, wasn't enough to dissuade from that impression. But here? He's deliciously evil, I love every moment he comes on screen. Literally makes me shake in my boots.
And then I see him with bunny ears in Trot Lovers and I wonder what life really is.

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If you have read a few of my posts lately, then you would know how I feel about SSR. I just wanted to 2nd everything said here. I am so glad for SSR, b/c he is doing what he was born to do, and growing in it. Aaaaaand, enjoying it!!!!! I just wish him more success in the future.

I never doubted that he could do cute and silly. I find playing villains much more challenging than being kind, cute and gentle (and silly). So that side of him, does not surprise me. I would also not be surprised if he is like that in RL (many "villains" are).

SSR, Fighting!!!!!! :-)

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I still don't know why liar game didn’t reach over 5% in the ratings ???
Maybe cause it's adapted ????
I mean Misaeng did it !!
Don't get me wrong I love both of them a looooot ♡♡♡♡
Or maybe because the audience tends more to like misaeng's genre ._.

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Misaeng is really relatable and more mainstream even though it's not. Also, it allows viewers to become more emotionally invested in it. I think some people might be turned off by how confusing the Liar Game's rules can be for some of the games.

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I totally understand how the viewers might feel... My confusion over the rules and the games dampens my enjoyment of the show (though I LOVE the characters). I have been (very invested) for this long (putting in a lot of hours), so now I am curious about how it will end. I can see how it would be hard to be emotionally invested in this.

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For me, the complexity of Liar Game enhances my enjoyment of the show. It's like a puzzle that I want figure out and solve.

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@ red,

Good for you! And I am not being sarcastic, really. Thing is, I wish for this, "the complexity of Liar Game enhances my enjoyment of the show," and I try to do this, " figure out and solve," but I am not very successful, not on my own. And it is not for lack of trying either... I think a lot about this show, even when I am not watching it, pondering the pieces I didn't get, and the many comments I read here.

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I don't understand everything on my first watch. Rewatching scenes over and over again helps, but I still need the help of dramabeans. It helps that I'm already familiar with the j-drama and manga.

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@ red,

I see... I watch the episodes sometimes twice, but not always. The 1st time is often raw, or not fully subbed, so I don't understand everything. Once it is fully subbed, I watch it again, however I watch it slowly because I replay scenes a lot (many of them).

I do agree with you that having watched the J. Dorama and having read the manga would be very helpful. I started watching the 1st ep. of the J. Dorama on YT, however I didn't finish it, I did it this week. I think I want to watch the J. Dorama when I have enough time to watch a good number of episodes, and hopefully get to season 2, since many people are also talking about season 2.

Thank you for clarifying things for me.

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@ red,

On 2nd thoughts, having said what I said earlier, I realized that I actually pretty much understood all the previous games, except for the one for this week (ep.7 and 8). As you mentioned, reading Dramabeans and reading from the other commenters really helped, and I was able to understand (more) fully what happened during the games, and how we got the results we got.
The president game still has me stumped. I might understand it later, when I rewatch the episodes.

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Finally it's time for Shin Sng Rok to shine. Man. If creepy is a product, Shin Sung Rok would be the shiny idol selling it. That said, I like how someone pointed out the orphanage conspiracy theory. It also meant that Shin Sung Rok is not really THE villian, he just want revenge of some sort, just like Lee Sang Yoon. Is there a bigger mastermind(s) behind the scene?

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ahh.... iconic character. this writer-actor-director triangle feels like three wizards in dark capes above a magic kettle brewing something ominous.
but it must be hard for Le sang-Yoon to always keep that grumpy cat expression on his face.
Shin Sung Rok, you! He is REALLY having fun playing the villain, isn´t he? I mean, I can just feel it. He is having a ball with this. That´s kind of unnerving...

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I love that! xD LSY looks adorable as a grumpy cat though, I love seeing him goof out behind the scenes. Honestly, the only time we've seen those beautiful dimples of his during this show, is in episode 2, when the officers how up and WooJin pulls that near-kiss (squeals!) on DaJung. And holy crap yes, SSR is having a ball with this role. Did you see next week's preview, he gave DaJung this spine-freezing stare that froze me to the core. It is really is awe-inspiring and unnerving at the same time.

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It seems to me that Woo-Jin lost because he didn't follow Da-Jung's values this time.

But whatever, when Do-Young won I was like "hey, didn't he just prove that he is a really good liar here ?" and yet he really won the whole game...

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What Da-jung's values are you referring to, please?

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I believe it's that moment when she tries to dissuade him from playing the coin toss game. She says "it doesn't feel right." But being sure in abilities, he doesn't listen. I wonder if NDJ has some sort of KDY radar and what this could mean for the game.

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not sure if you saw the episode 9 preview yet, but if u didn't and don't like spoilers then you can stop reading…

in the episode 9 preview, DY said that their greatest opponent is DJ. After your comment @Shalini i think DY isn't lying here when he said that. She probably can sense DY's untrustworthiness, which is probably why she said those words to WJ.

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@ Lizzie,

Yes, I did watch ep.9 preview, however I didn't understand it since I don't understand Korean, so I didn't get much info from that it (besides reading the commentary on @Shalini's blog, which I don't fully remember now, tbh. I willl have to read again later). I thought I would just wait for the subbed ep. itself (My streaming site will have it fully subbed on Wed). I don't mind previews and spoilers (more so in the previews, though I have realized that previews are quite misleading).

Thank you for explaining what is going on in the preview. I guess we will find out on Monday where the writers are taking this drama next. It would be nice if @Shalini's theory comes true. It would be a nice twist, and a welcomed one. I wrote about that in a comment above.

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@ Shalini,
Thank you for explaining. I guess we will find out next week (2 more days) if you were right :-) Do you watch the episodes raw? (at least the 1st time around?)

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I was also thinking of the moment Shalini referes to, but I was also thinking of the fact that, in the all episode Da-Jung wasn't at ease with Woo-jin's way of imposing trust.

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@ ju,
Oh I see... Thank you for clarifying that.

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If this drama is going where I think it is going with past research into the ability to control micro-expressions, then 10 episodes are not enough for this drama to thoroughly deal with it.

This is one of the few times I feel like I'm watching sci-fi on kdrama and I'm loving it immensely. Could we have a second season as good as this one?

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I second this.
we really need more suspense into the kdrama world. otherwise even the most intriguing characters just become fools in love and do nothing but stare and sigh for like 10 episodes. we need mysterious and thrilling characters that test the actors´abilities and give them a chance to have more FUN. if it is fun for them it is fun for us, I believe.

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I really hope there's going to be a second season! It would be a shame for a show this good to leave this soon!

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BTW PD Lee is one SMART cookie. She knows that there are many things wrong with Do Young and once in a while, she's able to put her finger on his machinations; she just doesn't have the full picture of how dangerous he is yet. If there weren't ethical concerns about her at the beginning of the drama, I would have really loved her now.

Next to Woojin, she's the closest person to guessing what makes Do Young tick.

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I really like her character, except for her scene early on where she chose to shoot that Teacher Hyun-gangster commotion. In the drama's universe populated by dominant and deceptive men who sometimes (okay maybe more frequently than sometimes) use women as pawns (i.e. jamie, da-jung), it's nice to see a girl character who has a spine, opposes said men, actively searches for answers herself, and is smart and sharp enough to see that they're being played.

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@hawoojinruinedme - Lol, I love your username!

I really like PD Lee too except for when she shot the gangster scene. Hope she can join hands with HWJ, DJ, and DG to bring DY (or whoever the true bad guy is) down!

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I love your username! Ha WooJin appears to have ruined most of the people here xD

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