I did put the overrated term in quotations since I do acknowledge I'm treading on water when saying it. I will say that I do appreciate the concept and how it differs from other kdramas, so kudos to W for that. But in a way it does feel like something I've seen quite often in shows and stories from other countries. I may still watch it, but there could be other shows that show the same concept.

It's most likely just me who thinks this, though. Some people did mention that judging what's overrated is subjective.

*wipes tear* Bless you for this Beanie. I totally agree and this is how I feel about it. and why I love it so much tbh.
I can def think of movies and books that have tackled similar ideas/concepts but not any tv shows come to mind (korean OR otherwise) and I watch...alot of stuff. from more than just the US. I feel like people that can appreciate it on both fronts will enjoy the drama the most, than those that can only see it as one or the other.

and I know it wont be everyone's cup of tea but it's just weird to see backlash from people who either havent watched it or barely have. cuz of how popular it is. like....not everything popular/highly praised = bad. and not everything with low ratings or low audience enthusiasm = underrated/good. ya know? and i see this as an issue not just specific to doctors/w/beautiful mind etc but almost every drama season, there will be something like this going on and i just do NOT get it.

@junpier -- "Metafiction" the way you're defining it (as a tool for comedy or self-referential witticisms) certainly isn't new, but I wouldn't say W's brand of self-awareness is the same as, say, a Joss Whedon quip. The point of that kind of meta is to acknowledge the genre tropes in a winky, "we don't take this too seriously" way. It's used to diffuse some of the melodrama and take it down a notch when the stakes get too high for our postmodern, self-conscious, emotionphobic society.

W uses meta to INCREASE its stakes -- to generate a serious dissection its own writing -- not to parody something else, or wink at the audience. Another show may hang a lampshade on its own flaws so it doesn't have to actually fix the bulb. W points out its own flaws (some of which are intentional) and then tries (and sometimes fails) to make a better lamp.

For the characters in W, telling the story is just as life-or-death as the life-or-death story they're telling. It's a show where an episode's shift in genre (from romcom to tragedy, action-thriller to horror) is a clue to the emotional state of the characters participating. A plot hole or a retcon is as devastating to the characters as it is to the audience. It's this huge Nesting Doll of a show, where the manwha directly comments on the real world, which directly comments on the drama itself, which directly comments on the craft of storytelling as a whole. ("It Was All A Dream is a copout to dealing with story conflict and doesn't lead to a satisfying ending"; "Characters who only exist as vehicles for plot vanish from the audience's memory as soon as they fulfill their function.")

I don't know any other TV show that's tried to use meta the way W uses it. I'm still kind of shocked W's managed to pull it off so far without breaking my suspension of disbelief, honestly.

Haha, I'm sorry. I can never shut up. XD

Listen, all that aside, you don't HAVE to like W. You don't even have to watch it! It's not certainly everyone's cup of tea, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that! If you have no interest, or you started to watch it and dropped it: totally A-OK, and good for you for staying true to what you like and not wasting your time. I'm not sitting here saying it's the greatest drama in the history of ever. :)

But W's nesting-doll storytelling truly is something new, and comparing it to shows like Buffy or Family Guy is doing it a disservice.

@bips99

I really disagree with your statement, and I'm sure I'm not alone and I'm sure also that if I had the energy I could give you a good breakdown as to why your statement represents a poor understanding of what groundwork has been laid prior to the recent eps (that is NOTa dig at your IQ btw, just want that to be clear.)
But at the end of the day, everyone has their own opinions/feelings you know? I don't think Andee's rant becomes more legitimate just cause you dislike where the show went or see the recent developments as nonsensical. (which isnt me saying she cant feel that way ofc, just that two ppl can be wrong at the same time lol)
imo the events make sense to me, albeit YES there is some shift in focus in the recent eps but not in the actual theme.

But I've also feltl that people who say the ending to QIHM made no sense/came out of nowhere were also off the mark. So this writer's style definitely doesnt appeal to everyone but in both cases, I would argue there IS a textual and subtextual explanation for all the events that have happened. whether that explanation however is sufficient/acceptable to you is ofc purely subjective. but to say one doesnt exist at all and its all arbitrary makes me wonder if we are watching the same thing at all. (QIHM is put there to emphasize my point but idk ur feelings on it ofc)

@bips99 I have to disagree with you.

In chapter 7, we dealt with genre change and sequel writing. In Epsiode 8, we have the character pre-setting as their purpose of living and the way of resetting the reality is a method that is so meta we have seen it a lot in comics and tv/movies, where the audience think the event is real but later it turns out to be just illusions or dreams.

This drama is centered around KC's happiness. So starting from episode 9, it's about how to make a happy and logical ending for bad tropes of choice at the beginning aka giving the black hooded a ID that both KC and the comic readers believe.

During completing the task above, the storty is abducted by the villain so then we are seeing a storing telling when the villains are the main characters.

Therefore, if you don't think it's centered around story-writing from episode 7-11, I might tend to believe we are watching different shows.

@beanie re: ur response to Juniper

I don;t like preaching to the choir so I'll keep this brief but again thanks for saying what I want to say but clearer than I ever could!
and yeah being meta isnt new at all, Community is another show where that was a big part of the plot and is imo a better example of metafiction and examining narrative tropes than Buffy or Family Guy ever could be, (but I also strongly dislike both Joss Whedon and Self Macfarlane anyway. "too clever by half" is a phrase that suits them both well) Alot of recent IFC shows would also be a good example of well done meta/satire. (and i wont even start going into films cuz yikes when will i be done then?)

but W is different because it is 1. not a satire/parody or comedy and 2. the characters are fictional in a drama that is ofc also fictional. its a very different dynamic! Plus what I like is that writer jung isnt just making points about storytelling but alot of it is also about like LIFE itself? basically in W: Art imitates life, Life imitates Art and Art comes to life in this drama.
but I guess how much this drama appeals to someone depends on how strong their feelings are about fictional narratives to begin with lol. (and how much of their day is spent wishing you could physically fight Nietzsche becuz honestly fuck that guy...this got away from me)

Too much typo. Revised. Please ignore the comment of mine above.

@bips99 I have to disagree with you.

In episode 7, we dealt with genre change and sequel writing. In Epsiode 8, we have the character pre-setting as their purpose of living and the way of resetting the reality is a method that is so meta we have seen it a lot in comics and tv/movies, where the audience think the event is real but later it turns out to be just illusions or dreams.

This whole drama is centered around KC’s happy ending. So starting from episode 9, we start to really tackle this matter and it’s about how to make a happy and logical ending for bad tropes of choice at the beginning aka giving the black hooded a ID that both KC and the comic readers believe.

During completing the task above, the storty is abducted by the villain so then we are seeing a storing telling when the villains are the main characters.

Therefore, if you don’t think it’s centered around story-writing from episode 7-11, I might tend to believe we are watching different shows.

@Tai -- Haha oh my goodness, thank you for those lovely replies! I have to admit I sometimes feel like I'm being really rambly and annoying with all my comments-that-somehow-become-essays. I agree with what you've said, as well!

(So true about Neitsche. I feel like Writer Song has read Heidegger and Sartre, too... their fingerprints are all over this drama.)

Enjoyed your take, beanie.

imo W should not be compared to DOTS, Doctors, Heirs etc because it is not that kind of drama.

Th comment threads for W are incredibly long because it is not a drama that simply aims for the emotional. Its like a puzzle, a what happens next narrative, a girl's adventure. the pleasure of the aesthetics of W manhwa and W real world etc. At the same time it arouses curiosity regarding what lies behind the drama and characters and what they symbolise and what the writer wants to say through it - which I think beanie's posts address. One can think it overrated of course but it has to be in the context of discussing its forbears - e.g. the discussion on metafiction and how exactly does W differ - and not just any other drama?

Personally it piqued my interest and grey cells enough to live watch and plan a binge watch even though I never rewatch dramas.

PS: Given the nature of the show its more cult or hip than popular I think, hence the long discussions and average ratings.

@ juniper -- Thank YOU for your equally civil response! I love these kinds of discussions. :)

Ah, see, you dropped it before they opened the nesting doll. Episodes 1 through 6 are mostly set-up to the main conflict. They're more existential than anything else -- yes, there's meta, but the story doesn't revolve around "telling the story" the way it does in ep 7 onward.

I don't know if you're planning to pick it back up again, so just in case: SPOILERS AHOY.

When Yeon Joo asks Kang Chul to write a sequel together, I started to notice the storytelling-as-story thing. The genre of the show suddenly changes, and the shift is jarring (even if the romance is adorable). And it's jarring on purpose: not only does it highlight the fact that their fluffy romance novel is an attempt to hide from the reality of their situation, the jarring shift also decries their poor writing (ignoring their unresolved story threads in favor of "writing a sequel"). The drama's narrative punishes them for that. The genre change lasts until the "prequel" rudely butts its head in, at which point, it shifts back into the melodrama it was before, because that story wasn't finished. From then onward, they attempt to rewrite, fix, and take control of the narrative -- and the genre within which those attempts are presented depends heavily on who's writing the story. It's a horror story when the villain is writing it. It's a thriller when Kang Chul and Yeon Joo manage to wrestle a tiny bit of control back. It's a melancholic romance when their joint subplot forcibly reasserts itself within the new narrative.

That's why some people are finding it confusing or "messy" -- it all makes internal sense within the established logic of the drama, but there are elements that are written to act outside of the logic of the titular two worlds.

Anyway. Genre is just one element they play with, but it's an example of the storytelling-as-story thing I'm talking about. It's less deconstructing tropes and more deconstructing the writing process itself. I don't know if I'm explaining this well. We're watching a story, and we're watching the characters write it; but we're also made to be aware of how Song Jae Jung is writing us the story through the way its told. (Inception is a good cousin to this show, but not quite in the same vein.)

(Also I disagree that a creator wronging their creation is a mischaracterization of the writer/fiction relationship. As a writer myself and an avid consumer of stories, I very much agree with Song Jae Jung that a writer has a duty to do justice to her characters--especially when she's sharing that story with a broader audience. There's an unspoken promise a writer makes to her audience to take them to a cathartic end, and it's the writer's job to do their homework on how to get there. But that's my personal opinion, of course.)

(Also also, love Buffy! And I agree its thematic purpose was much more grand than W's...

...fun experimentation. Is the end of that sentence.

Goodness, but I talk too much.

haha yes, at least this drama is established cheesy, they will pull it for the opportunity of OTP bonding moment, but that's actually why I cherish hyun min and ha won a lot more,
like they need each other, ha won can be kickass and hyun min will not take that belt from her or even compete, even when he may a have chance,
but with ji won, she became damsel in distress, even just by the general characterisation , that sort of story is implied.
Idk my imagination run wild .