Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 20 (Final)
by HeadsNo2
We must not have wished hard enough for an ending that would magically solve the issues endemic to this production, since I can think of no other reason why this happened. It could’ve been worse (they all can be worse), but it’s certainly not what we would’ve hoped to see at the end of this sometimes rewarding, sometimes grueling journey through a modern girl’s integration into a time far from her own. Which leaves us to wonder, was it all about love? Altering history? Fate working in very mysterious ways? Who knows.
…No, really, does anyone know?
FINAL EPISODE RECAP
Su arrives at Jung’s secondary home, and finds herself thinking of So when Jung outstretches his hand to help her out of her palanquin. But since they’ve been forbidden from marrying by the king, Jung’s prepared a more secret ceremony, though he tells her not to worry—even married, he’ll just consider them as friends.
He explains how she’ll be set up nicely in this house, and that he’ll come to visit her often. She’s all smiles until he gives her back the hairpin she’d given him as a symbol of her desire to leave the palace, which carries with it the memories of So, who had given it to her.
The small box of belongings she brought with her contain the multiple copies of the poem she had So write, and she looks at them with tears in her eyes. We then cut to her married life with Jung, as Su etches a likeness of So on a stone, and Jung practices his swordsmanship.
But Jung gets the eerie feeling that they’re being watched, and suddenly leans forward as though to receive a kiss from his wife. She just smiles and dabs his sweaty forehead instead, which is when Jung gently takes her hand and tells her that he’s arranged for the recently retired royal doctor to pay her a visit.
It’s clear that Jung’s putting on a husbandly show for whoever it is that’s spying on them, but we can’t see who. Inside, the doctor feels her pulse to check on the baby in her womb—apparently this is something Su’s known about, but when the doctor first checked her, it was too early for him to tell.
However, he warns that her already shaky health will be tested with the baby, but Su is adamant that she’ll do whatever it takes to ensure the health of the child. Jung is taken by surprise with the news, and orders that the doctor stay with them for a time, since they can’t risk this secret getting out.
So receives an account of events from his spy, detailing how affectionate Jung and Su are. He’s livid since Baek-ah said the marriage would only be a formality, but this report claims anything but.
While completing her rock drawing of So, Su is suddenly overtaken by heart trouble, and So gets there in time to see Jung fret over her and carry her inside.
Adorably, Jung sleeps in a separate bed only feet away so that he can at least look at his wife. “Do you remember when we first met?” he asks. She wonders whether it was when she ran into the forest to save him, and the two reminisce over fond memories.
So can hear the two of them laughing from outside, and returns to his throne in a daze as he tells Astronomer Choi that he never wants to hear a single word spoken about Jung or Su ever again.
Meanwhile, Su imagines sitting across a table from So, both of them smiling at each other. “We have finally left the palace, and are alone together. You and I… we are the only ones left. We can forget the truths, lies, misunderstandings, and jealousy… the restless bickering over the throne and the many deaths. It is a time meant only for us, and I can love you to my heart’s content.”
Six months later.
Jung paces nervously outside the birthing room, the sounds of a crying baby coming from inside. The midwife comes out with a perfectly healthy baby girl, though Jung instructs the midwife to claim that the baby was stillborn to anyone who asks.
He goes in to find Su in a sorry state, though he reassures her that the baby’s in good hands—now all she needs to do is worry about herself. A tear snakes down Su’s cheek as she weakly hands him a letter to be delivered to So, though it’s not news of the baby. “I… want to see him,” she explains, and Jung readily agrees (though he changes the calligraphy on the front, claiming that his wife’s writing is too identical to the king’s).
Su holds her infant daughter in her arms, but is suddenly stricken by an illness that has her swaying on her feet. We don’t hear what the doctor has to say, and Su doesn’t seem to notice the letter she wrote to the king sitting on the table nearby. Or is it another letter? I can’t tell.
After discussing matters of state with Astronomer Choi regarding a plan to cut off supplies to the most powerful clans to silence their voice, So is given another letter from Su.
But since the envelope is in Jung’s handwriting, he believes it to be from his half-brother and throws it into a pile of other unread letters, all of them from Su.
Looking sicker than ever, Su wonders why So hasn’t come yet, considering how she’s sent him so many messages: “Does he hate me that much?” Jung stops himself from saying that he’s already sent messengers, instead claiming that he forgot while promising to get on that immediately. Aww. Just live happily ever after, you two.
In an effort to cheer her, he brings her outside, where he’s gathered musicians from the capital to sing for her. Su is too weak to speak, so Jung ushers the singer to sing anything she wants, and the singer opts for a song that a court lady sang which made the king fall in love with her.
Su’s eyes open a little wider at that, and the singer commences with her song. Su recognizes it as the song she did, in fact, sing at Eun’s birthday. So had overheard from a distance.
This sparks more memories to come flooding forth as Su murmurs, “Long ago, you promised that you would treat my life as if it were your own. Do you remember that?” Then she turns to Jung as she weakly tells him to protect her daughter in her stead, and to never let her go to the palace.
Jung looks like he’s trying to hold it together, but Su’s given up all hope on So ever coming to see her before she leaves this world. He pulls her in so her head rests on his shoulder, saying, “Su-ya, in your next life, you will remember me, won’t you?”
Instead, Su whispers, “I’m going to forget you. I will forget everything. Even in my dreams… I will forget all of you.” She dies in his arms, and Jung can only cry as he holds her to him.
So receives news of her death in utter shock, only now coming to realize that all those letters he ignored were from Su. He tears them open one by one and reads them, and in them, she explains that she loved him completely. She knew that she left him with hate rather than love, and wondered if he resented her for it.
He clutches the letter in his hands and sobs, only now realizing the depth of Su’s feelings for him. And too late, at that. We flash back to her writing more letters of her love for him, recognizing each time he was there for her, and each time he was there to save her.
The voiceover continues as So spurs his horse to Jung’s house as fast as he can:
“I still love you. In the rain, when you tossed everything aside and stood at my side, when you threw yourself in the path of a flying arrow for me, I became unable to forget you for the rest of my life. The opposite of ‘to love’ isn’t ‘to hate’ — it’s to throw away. That I threw you away, and that you threw me away… I’m afraid [we’ll] think that. I miss you, but I cannot be close to you. Hoping we will meet again inside a winding fence, I wait for you every day.”
Baek-ah finds Jung in mourning clothes, caressing Su’s urn. He hands him a letter, which Baek-ah begins to read with tears in his eyes. They’re interrupted by a frantic So, who comes in crying for Su to show herself.
But when his eyes come to rest on the urn, devastation hits. Jung blames him for waiting too long, but So blames him for writing his own name on the letters—he had no idea they were from Su. Jung says he did it only because her handwriting was so similar to his (again, what and why?), but he can’t believe that So wouldn’t have known Su was dying when he knows So was tracking them with spies.
Baek-ah is the one to tell Jung that So stopped receiving reports once he learned that they were getting on so well, leaving that realization to hit as So grasps Su’s urn and sobs his heart out. “Su-ya, let’s go,” he says, clutching it. “Let’s go.” Ouch.
Jung refuses to let him pass, reminding So that she was his wife. “Su may be dead, but she is still mine,” So cries, and it’s only with Baek-ah’s intervention that Jung allows So to take the urn. Baek-ah laments that Su spent her life caught between all of them, and urges Jung not to make it any harder on her, even now.
But poor Jung can only take out the hairpin he originally took from Su as he cries pitifully. Only then does Baek-ah realize that Jung actually loved Su, and embraces his half-brother in solidarity. Aww.
So takes Su’s ashes to the spot where she’d once stacked her prayer stones, thinking back to his memories of her, and how she promised she wouldn’t leave.
After what Won only describes as “a long time” has passed, he’s given a ceremonial cup of poison with which to kill himself. But before he does, Baek-ah hands him the letter Chae-ryung wrote in blood to Su, which Su had wanted delivered to Won.
While the soundtrack transports us to The Lord of the Rings, Won reads Chae-ryung’s letter and thinks back to their few scenes together. He feels a shred of remorse as the chyron tells us that he was put to death for treason. (He’s not worth the screencap, guys.)
Baek-ah finds himself shadowed by a small girl, who he recognizes as Wook’s daughter. He tells her that he’s her uncle, and is momentarily off-put by her name being Bok-soon, since that’s name Woo-hee tried to give him once (before she was promptly outed for lying). Even stranger, he recognizes the ornament that Woo-hee favored on the little girl, who claims to not know where it came from.
But in the time it takes him to flash back to his memories with Woo-hee, the little girl disappears.
An older, bearded, and seemingly ill Wook takes a walk with Baek-ah, mentioning the changes So has made since becoming king. Rather than have any aspirations for the throne himself, Wook only says that he wants to see the kind of king So becomes. “I wonder if perhaps Goryeo has its most powerful king in history,” Wook adds thoughtfully.
Baek-ah asks if he still misses Su, prompting a rueful smile from Wook. “I don’t know,” he answers. “I was always giving my heart, but I was always making mistakes. I’ve only come to realize that now.” He coughs, and you know what that means—it’s time for Wook’s obligatory flashback to the past, though he surprisingly thinks of his first wife, Lady Hae.
Yeonhwa tears into her husband for not going to see his firstborn son, Wang Ju (future King Gyeongjong), even on his birthday. She thinks he only sees his son as competition, reminding So of the royal nephews he’s killed in order to keep his reign secure. The least he can do is trust his own son.
But So basically says that he doesn’t trust Ju because he doesn’t trust Yeonhwa, and he knows the two of them will turn against him one day. Yeonhwa blames his thinking on Su, since she was the only person who ever said that all people should be treated as equals. That’s why she believes So passed a law emancipating slaves (this was a reform Gwangjong was well known for).
Claiming that she now understands why Su left, Yeonhwa is all too happy to bring that up just to hurt So. He says nothing, and goes instead to the spot where Su once set up her prayer stones.
A little girl bumps into him and makes a big fuss about it, which reminds So of how Su once did the same thing. And lo and behold, the little girl runs to the man she calls “Father.” It’s Jung, of course—and oh God, his sideburns have only gotten bigger.
Jung apologizes for breaking his exile to come to the palace, claiming that it was only because today is the anniversary of Su’s death. When So asks if the child is his, Jung says yes, though So notes that the child is too old to be from his recent marriage.
Taking this as his cue to leave, Jung turns with the girl in his arms, which is when So notices that she’s wearing the same hairpin he’d once given to Su. He orders Jung to leave the girl with him, and Jung drops to his knees to give his firmest “No.”
He confirms So’s suspicions when he says that Su never wanted her daughter to live in the palace, leaving the poor little girl clueless as to what the adults are talking about. She looks over to her real father as So looks to Jung, officially releasing him from his exile. In fact, he wants him to come visit the palace as often as he wants. Aw, that’s going to be the only way he’ll ever see his daughter, isn’t it?
Astronomer Choi decides to retire from his position, but doesn’t leave without telling So to forget Su, who was never of this world anyway. Now it’s time—wait for it—for Astronomer Choi to get his own flashback to happier times. Has anyone not gotten a flashback yet? No?
The sky darkens suddenly with an eclipse, and So looks to the sky as the light disappears. A rider rides against the darkening horizon as we get a flashback montage of Su falling into the water and ending up in Goryeo under an eclipsing sky…
…And then, Su wakes in her own bed, in her own time, with tears running down her cheeks over the mysterious man haunting her dreams. Oh no. No no no no. You are not pulling the Dream Card on us. Anything but that!
While working at her cosmetics job, Su tells her coworker that she’s been having dreams about a man dressed in ye olde clothes with a scar on his face for nearly a year. Her coworker says it’s because she almost died from drowning, spent a year in a coma, and then woke up. Thanks, Exposition Fairy.
Su overhears snippets of a presentation being given on cosmetics in the Goryeo era (which she may have had a hand in helping along?), and is approached by the presenter afterward. It’s Astronomer Choi, although, not him, and he gives her an enigmatic smile as he reads her name tag.
Seeing her name as “Go Ha-jin,” he tells her that in the Goryeo era, “Go” was known as “Hae.” She notes that it’s a funny coincidence since she’s selling makeup inspired by the era, to which Choi says, “There is no such thing as coincidence. Things only return to their rightful place.”
But when she introduces the line of makeup to him, she remembers Baek-ah’s voice mentioning Bulgarian rose oil to her—though she’s confused as to where she remembers hearing that. Choi seems to study her knowingly, though Su does her best to shake it off and introduce some BB cream, which she claims was invented in Goryeo as well.
Saying that prompts her to think of So and his scar, leaving her severely shaken and confused. She leaves work early, but finds herself drawn to an exhibit of Goryeo paintings, each reminding her of scenes she doesn’t know how she remembers.
The paintings show the rain ritual, which she remembers in vivid detail, and King Gwangjong. “It wasn’t a dream,” she thinks, as some honestly random images are put forth in paint form—scenes that literally no one would have thought to paint, like her bowing deeply to the king on their first meeting, her saving Jung in the forest, etc. But we’ll just have to go with it.
Su looks around the gallery with tears in her eyes, seeing herself in every painting. Only then does she stop at a portrait of King Gwangjong, remembering So in detail. The biography accompanying the portrait tells of his legacy as a good king, which makes Su think of the day she’d been sure that So wouldn’t go down in history as a tyrant.
“I’m sorry,” she cries. “I’m sorry for leaving you alone.”
As she cries, the painting before her slowly comes into focus as we return to Goryeo during the eclipse. So looks up as though he’s heard her voice, which is when Baek-ah tells him that Wook has died, and he’ll be leaving the palace as well.
Standing alone like he was in the painting, So looks back over his shoulder, as though expecting someone. But he’s alone, and comments, “Life is fleeting.” It was the same thing his father said before he died.
He’d related what his father said to Su once, and had worried over her lost facial expression. He’d wondered what she was hiding, but Su only said that she felt anxious every day she was there.
“If we had met in another world, and in another time, I can’t help but think how great that would have been,” she said. “If only that were so, I wouldn’t fear anything. I could freely, truly, love you all I wanted.” The flashback fades, and So is left in the present (of the past) to rub the makeup off the scarred side of his face with a shaking hand.
“If you and I are not of the same world,” he thinks, “then I will find you, my Su-ya.”
Cut to: The two of them walking together in flashback, with So offering to carry Su on his back due to her hurting knees. Together and laughing, they run forward.
COMMENTS
Really, Moon Lovers? Not one hint that Su would find her present day So? Not even after that line? You chose to show a piece of flashback footage instead? That’s how you wanted to end this, by having So look to the future, but think of the past instead? That’s your big message?
I admit it would’ve been a cheap fix to have So appear in the present day, but I was willing to take anything. It’s not as if the show established any kind of rules when it came to Su’s time-traveling, but this ending gave me horrible Dr. Jin vibes, in that both were adaptations of much more successful foreign dramas, both protagonists woke up in the present day remembering the past, and no questions were ever answered. Ever.
While we can point to failures on many levels, it was really the execution that bogged this show down, and that was never more apparent than in the episodes leading up to this finale. Su gradually lost any sense of self she may have possessed, and we lost our eyes and ears into the strange world she’d entered into. Nothing solidified that more than when we found out she was pregnant this episode, which was something she already knew. There’s a cardinal rule for protagonists in TV, especially those whose point of view we’re seeing the show through: You can keep secrets from everybody else, but you can’t keep them from the audience.
Because at that point, we’ve lost our point of entry into the events happening on screen. At the point where Su had her own agenda that we weren’t privy to, why keep trying? Who were we following? Why did it matter? I hate how bad finales bring up existential questions, but I sat for a good five minutes after this show ended just trying to think of the why of it all. What were the resonant themes? Where was the dramatic clarity, or tension? How did Su hope to solve anything by leaving?
If her main reason was her pregnancy, then we were really cheated when it came to her realization happening off-screen. The reason why it sucks to have protagonists keep secrets is because we can’t follow them, and it would’ve been a great help for us to know whether Su was playing the noble idiot and leaving the palace because of the baby. But instead it felt like she left because she just had to, but she missed So every day because she left. So why? Why anything?
By the time we reached the end, I realized that what was missing was a central conflict. I still don’t know what we were supposed to want for this show and its characters, because I couldn’t buy into the love story between Su and So despite desperately wanting to. Unfortunately for So, he was virtually nonexistent for much too long, and we only knew he would be important later on by virtue of him being played by Lee Jun-ki. But were he a total unknown, and were this not an adaptation, we would’ve been sorely misled in the beginning with the Su/Wook loveline, the development of which seemed to outweigh the thought put in to the development of the Su/So pairing.
Which isn’t to say that they made a mistake in focusing on that loveline first, but they did make one in not laying down a better foundation for us to jump to the So ship later. It’s entirely possible that these two lovelines worked out great in the much longer original version, but there’s really no excuse for this show’s inability to tell the story it wanted to tell in the time allotted to it—and with it being pre-produced, it’s even worse. It’s not like that twentieth episode just snuck up on the writer, or that the writer didn’t have time to plan out how to adapt a longer drama into a shorter format. That’s the whole point of pre-production!
Going back to the episode, and bypassing all the WTF-ery surrounding Su’s return to the present, her year in a coma, presumably another year having dreams about the past, Astronomer Choi being back in the future (but not as a homeless man), the eclipse that somehow blurred the lines between both worlds, the paintings of scenes no one else would’ve seen or thought to paint, the fact that Su spent years in the past while only a year or so passed in the present, the fact that Su physically died in the past and all the questions that raises about whatever happened to the girl who used to inhabit Su’s body, what were we left with?
We’re left with Lee Jun-ki putting on a one-man show. And, okay, Ji-soo got his moment to shine this week, which made me desperately wish we’d focused on his love for Su rather than the tenth prince’s crush. But that’s neither here nor there at this juncture. I guess it’s the same as with any show that limps its way to its finale: I wish it had been better, because there was a good drama underneath all the nonsensicality and noise. But we can’t win ’em all.
RELATED POSTS
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 19
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 18
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 17
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 16
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 15
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 14
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 13
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 12
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 11
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 10
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 9
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 8
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 7
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 6
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 5
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 4
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 3
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 2
- Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo: Episode 1
Tags: featured, IU, Kang Haneul, Lee Jun-ki, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo
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201 Kirschen
November 2, 2016 at 1:00 PM
Well as well as alot of kdrama endings tent to be hasty after the two main parts...and in this particular case same as the first version of it , the end as well result bitter and lacking...perhaps it is all the foggy things left on the characters while the unfolding of it all and all the trying to stick to a story-telling that was already known of its ending .But while coping with all this there were so many upgrading things regarding production and location that did the drama worth watching in so many levels ..main characters were quite good though I also saw some lacking in regards towards some parts of the characters behaviors that did not quite fullfil the expectation. But I will hope they made the 2nd part and give the audience a twist of story that we as fans would love (you know white castles and pink endings ) jaja I liked it all the series and I hope all the cast and crew feel rewarded by they true hard work and wonderfull entretainment ...thank you I liked it somewhat better than the first but hey that it's my opinion. God Bless cast , crew and all production and everyone for a wonderfull story.
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202 endo
November 2, 2016 at 1:07 PM
Majority of the comments here are disappointed because of the ending. Me on the other hand feel contented. With all the frustrations Hae Soo gave me. She doesn't deserve So. And if ever they meet again she's still the same person. So imagine if she saw the reincarnation of So and thinks that 1000 years ago he killed his brothers. She will react the same. LOL. If she already overreacted on the things So haven't done what more now?
BUT. I hope to see a present time scene. It's somehow comforting that Wang So's reincarnation made it to 21st century. (okay i just want to see more of LJG..haha)
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endo
November 2, 2016 at 1:08 PM
I'll never ever regret watching this drama.
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hyades
November 2, 2016 at 3:49 PM
Me too! despite all the flaws it was good show. LKJ you are the best!
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Barbrey
November 2, 2016 at 4:21 PM
Me neither!
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Lin_K
November 2, 2016 at 7:04 PM
Me neither! It was a great journey!
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Pei
November 2, 2016 at 7:29 PM
So do I.
No matter how much I ask myself wtf did I ever start this show, I never regret it. It just that I want extra 5 min of So-Soo reunion at 21st century. *greedy me*
I want more!! MORE!!!
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
November 2, 2016 at 9:57 PM
Yes, me neither! Loved this show, flaws and all, I wanted an extra two minutes of modern So and Su colliding in the swing doors of that Goryeon exhibit building, she exiting, he entering, then looking into each other's eyes, he apologising only to stop as he stares into those big, big eyes, and freeze and that's it, end...that wasn't too much to ask,was it? But I was content with the GJ's promise to find her wherever she be, and that poignant piggyback ride. The most satisfying drama I've watched in a long, long time.
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Pineapplegongzhu
November 3, 2016 at 3:43 AM
Me neither!
Listening to the soundtrack on repeat.
Re-watching favorite episodes and scenes.
#cannotletgo
#refusetoadmititisover
#addicted
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pigsnout
November 7, 2016 at 11:46 PM
The instrumental parts of the soundtrack are really beautiful. I wish the rap and all that random stuff wasn't there, though.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 2:38 PM
Same here.
#fangirl4life
#despitecapslockrage
#noregrets
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pigsnout
November 7, 2016 at 11:44 PM
Yeah I won't regret it either. but I still feel sad!
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203 June
November 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM
How could they cut off scenes of LJK in present time????!!!!!! Why show, WHY? That is the entire reason i held on despite the mess that is episode 19.. *locks self in room and wails*
If Hae Soo is trying to leave the palace for her baby, it makes more sense, but they need not give us such rubbish in episode 19 still. The whole of episode 19, i feel like I'm watching an hour long recap of previous episodes. But i haven't watched those previous episodes before? Where are the missing scenes you owe me show?????????
The paintings don't make sense even when i try to justify Baek-ah the one who drew most of them. He's not even in some of the scenes, aka Hae Soo saving Jung in forest.
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June
November 2, 2016 at 1:21 PM
This show looks beautiful and has good actors but the writing and editing seriously are crap.. waste of acting talent of LJK *sob*
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pigsnout
November 7, 2016 at 11:47 PM
I don't think even the writing is that much of a problem.... the writer wrote the scenes but then they got edited out. It's the PD and editor's fault ?
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204 mozaya
November 2, 2016 at 1:50 PM
I am so disappointed with this drama, it's not even funny. I loved the original Bu Bu Xin Jing and while i knew it'll be different, this is over the top.
I loved the casting, being a fan of IU and those yummy boys but the way they destroyed an amazing drama by doing this... i dont know who to blame? the director? the producer? The reenact important moments of the original but failed to convey why they were important. Why did the lead woman left at the end, why she said she didn't want to remember them when she died... it made so much sense in Bu Bu and here... It felt like it was coming out of the blue. I didn't understand her half the time (and that's me being kind), i feel cheated for the princes who are so much more developed and with whom we can actually feel for in the original. I mean i kept waiting for them to make me understand the bonds between the princes and the main female but... I know it's unfair of me to keep comparing this drama to the original but i was more than prepared to give it some leeways and i just feel... yeah cheated is the word. I made it to the end because i like the actor and i kept filling the things i didn't understand (Soo's actions by what Ruo Xi thought) and i think it is sad that i had to do that to understand Soo.
I still give a bravo for the cast who did the drama, found the scenery beautiful but so sad it felt so below my expectations.
Thanks for the recaps, always funny to see the extra commentaries on parts i found so over the top, glad im not alone
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Ruby
November 3, 2016 at 12:38 PM
I too got frustrated with the show at times. But I liked it a lot mostly due to the cast and their chemistry, the cinematography and some of the music.
I did not have any expectations when I started watching the show because I never saw the original Chinese drama nor have I read the book. I made the mistake of doing that before with another remake so I know how frustrating it can be.
You just end up comparing the two shows and the book then getting more and more frustrated how the remake is different or does not live up to the original. To me, I would rather watch the remake as is so I can fairly judge it on its own merits.
Even after hearing from others who are fans of the Chinese drama, I am not at all tempted to watch that show. Maybe someday. But I do not think the C-drama has anyone of the acting caliber of LKJ.
Sure he hams it up in some scenes but the guy is on a level I have only seen in Hollywood and major international productions. He deserves better shows and better movies.
To me, the show is about how fleeting life is and how people waste what little time they have on this earth in pursuit of power, prestige, money - things that really do not matter in the end. The drama shows you that loving someone makes you a better person. Love also makes you do things that are worthwhile, brave, foolhardy and fatal.
And even if love doesn't last, the time you had together with that person can be the best thing to ever happen to you. The memories of that love can sustain you in the long dreary years ahead. And I agreed with the director's and writer's decision to let Soo carry the child to term. The daughter is a living, breathing symbol that she loved So and that she left the palace for this child's sake.
While So cannot publicly acknowledge her as his own, he and Jung know she is his daughter and both will protect her. Hence So's decision to end Jung's exile. So wants to see his daughter too but he knows letting her live in the palace will be dangerous. He sort of mends his relationship with Jung who he knows will continue caring for the girl.
Of course the show is also a cautionary tale about love gone wrong.
Wook, Won's slave girl, Queen Yoon, Wook's sister, King Taejoo are also examples of that.
I did not get hung up on the time travel because I just saw it merely as a means to have the heroine plopped down in Goryeo. While the astronomer dropped hints to Hae Soo, I never believed he was her guide to that world. He had his own agenda.
I think Hae Soo did change So's future as well as the other characters. For example, the astronomer in the future is no longer just a bum but a lecturer now. Of course fate didn't really allow her to change history that much. So still married his niece and his half sister, he still killed Won and his nephews and purged the noble families.
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Mozaya
November 4, 2016 at 3:30 AM
They should just have made an original drama instead of a remake. I feel that if you announce a remake you should be sure it would live up to the original. I would have loved to watch the drama you described but if i take away my knownledge of the c-version then it's even worst. I would be splitting hair asking myself why she left, why the handwriting matter, why, why, why as the drama didnt do a good job explaining it to me. Plus there were a lot of times when things, moments came out out of the blue, with no context.
As a remake it fell short and as a "original" it felt rushed and weirdly paced with a lot of nonsense moments (Yo killing Mu and taking the throne? While he was a traitor? But everyone find it normal?).
I think that they maybe aimed to convey what you described but as a viewer i just didnt really felt it. Each week i still watched this drama (was waiting impatiently for it) and it's just that i had hopes that it would magically redeem itself (how i dont know). It's just that after seeing the finale i had to write down my dissapointment and reading your reply makes me even more sad at what could have been.
I think i wont watch another remake if i saw the original (didnt watch boys over flowers) as you have the right idea: its hard to not compare...
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Ruby
November 6, 2016 at 11:19 PM
It's interesting how people see the same show but come away with different interpretations of what they watched.
It's like a crime scene that happens in front of you. Eyewitness accounts vary widely.
Some folks likened the main couple as the Goryeo version of Korea's founding mythology. Some view it as a badly made historical drama because it veered away from established guidelines. And so on and so forth.
I already mentioned what I think the themes are.
I really didn't hate the show. In fact I've been watching certain scenes and episodes again this week.
Given what I now know about what happens to all the characters, watching the early interactions young Hae Soo had with the princes makes the latter episodes more poignant to me.
Those moments represented the calm before the storm.
I had no problem following the story despite not watching the C-drama or reading the original source material. I guess because the show isn't really that different from other sad drama plots.
Girl meets Boy. Boy is a tortured soul coz of A, B and C reasons. They fall in love. Other people or circumstances split them apart. One or both lovers die.
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wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 11:22 AM
I share your sentiments... I loved the C-drama, enough to spur me to read the novel, and I even went on to read the author's other works and watched the drama adaptations, if any. Basically, this was the series that started this habit for me: read the Chinese source material before it's adapted to a drama. The only time I did something like this before were those Japanese manga that got adapted to J-drama, T-drama/C-drama, and K-drama. But I've always been the type that watches ALL adaptations, even anime, and compare with the source because I enjoy seeing what each country's interpretation was like based on the author's written/drawn piece. Then, I want to know what liberties they took to make each one distinct while maintaining the similar overall theme.
With BBJX, I loved it so much that I saw the drama, read the novel, saw it again, then saw a 4-hour edit of just Ruoxi-Yinzhen scenes. That's why I was super excited when I found out a K-drama adaptation was in the works! Love the cast, mostly LJG, Jisoo, NJH, but don't really mind IU and the rest. I thought with the incredible source + C-drama + big budget + pre-production, surely this series would propel everyone to super stardom and a household name, just like it did for the Chinese counterpart. But alas, my high expectations only resulted in major disappointments. I loved LJG's performance of Wang So--only one who really made this show watchable. Jisoo in the last ep when he was actually given something "real" to do, and not get axed out in the SBS version. Others did what they could given the script and directing... But so many classic scenes fell short... I was anticipating the 4th prince letter scene, the treasured artifacts scene after Ruoxi's death (the calligraphy, arrow, hairpin, inhaler), etc. Nothing happened or nowhere near as poignant. Only consolation was the guarding in the rain scene.
I was really rooting for this show. I wanted it to do well and be loved. I wanted it to be great while maintaining the classic scenes and adding their own Goryeo spin. I wanted it to be successful so that every single cast member will be remembered vividly for their portrayal. But nope, none of that really happened.
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205 asha
November 2, 2016 at 2:15 PM
Now I have a a lump in my throat ..my stomach hurts and I desperately wanna cry ..IT HURTS ..
so whyyyy we should go through all of this in 80% of kdrama ending episodes ...why on hell they LOVE sad endings ??
I looooved this drama like hell and still do but the ending was way so hurting than it should have been , Also why wang so ended up to be the bad guy , and that "I know why Soo left now" thing really bugged me ..I just cant handle this anymore ..shall I stop watching kdramas noooooow when I'm a great dedicated kdrama fan ????? damn it..
plzzzz someone who agrees with me ? cuz I think I'm dying now ..
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206 Celia
November 2, 2016 at 2:23 PM
Sign the petition for Part 2 please.
http://www.joysofasia.com/join-the-petition-for-part-2-of-moon-lovers-scarlet-heart-ryeo/
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pigsnout
November 3, 2016 at 7:04 AM
NO.
You really want part 2 after what this freaking idiot writer and PD did to part 1???
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207 Odile
November 2, 2016 at 3:17 PM
Will there be a Season 2? because... this ending is a cliffhanger.. and I'm not satisfied haha
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pigsnout
November 9, 2016 at 12:52 AM
I don't think they can make a season 2, not enough ratings and the cast will never come back. Just end season 1 properly, that is enough.
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208 Elle
November 2, 2016 at 3:19 PM
Anyone else just get scammed by "episode 21" on drama fever LOL I got out all my snacks for NOTHING ugh I can't move on with my life
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marimari
November 2, 2016 at 8:51 PM
Me too! I was in bed feeling like going through a bad breakup from watching yesterday's episode and then Dramafever just had to text me back saying here's a closure in the form of Episode 21. My broken heart came alive for a second then..TROLLED!
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Baek
November 2, 2016 at 11:17 PM
Sorry i cant watch from dramafever.. so whats in there?
only thanks?
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marimari
November 3, 2016 at 2:37 AM
@Baek a thank you video from the cast except for KHN.
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Baek
November 3, 2016 at 4:28 AM
I see.. Thanks..
I think yesterday or the day before, i saw that there's a short individual thank you video on Taiwan KKTV site for being the #1 video there.. (Got IU, 3,4,9,10,13,14 princes)
pigsnout
November 9, 2016 at 12:53 AM
@Baek it's nice of them to do the thank you videos. I just wish they didn't put it our as a new episode
209 Vip
November 2, 2016 at 4:05 PM
LJG shares this in his IG last night
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMT7-14hb7g/
What is he mean about soon ?
Season 2 or special episode ?
*fingers cross*
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marimari
November 2, 2016 at 8:52 PM
Im never getting trolled again! I'll assume he's talking about his upcoming fanmeets
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pigsnout
November 9, 2016 at 12:54 AM
It's about his fan meetings, his agency just confirmed he will do at least 3 and they are looking for organising more.
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210 bbstl 🧹
November 2, 2016 at 4:28 PM
oh great Heads, how I wish these could be real ???
For your wit and your strength, you are adored.
Thanks and thanks again for everything.
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211 CSA
November 2, 2016 at 5:12 PM
I think this show was about nothing, at the end nothing really happened, I mean nothing relevant, It was just a series of events, meaningless most of the time, things happened and that was all, nothing was beyond that. Applies here: “Jack of all trades, master of none”, so many characters and stories to present that they can't develop all of them. Then, everything feels vague and superficial. I never realized what was the central plot, if there was one. Time travel?, change the future?, epic love?, reigns?, none of that was developed properly, so I don't know. I saw betrayal and suffering, but presented in such a strange and caricaturesque form, that sometimes it felt like watching one of those comedy shows where they mock soap operas.
However, I should give credit to the show, because it was really playful and interactive, every week the audience had to fill the holes in the plot, imagine the scenes of events that happened but never showed us, try to give some logic to a total illogical characters, find the differences between the versions of the episodes. Maybe this was a way of getting the viewers involved in the story, in the narrative. Instead of writers, viewers create the story in their heads with the clues they gave them, very educational. Now that it’s finished, there may be a quest game to find the culprit of this, who was it?, the writers in the library with a pencil?, the editors in the editing room with a mouse?...This show had the base to be at least a decent story, but I don’t know what the writers and producers did, and why they did it.
Personally, aside from the inconsistencies, I never felt the love between the main couple, maybe because of the actors, I thought that KHN and IU have better chemistry (my personal opinion), or because the way they presented the relationship between Wook and Soo in the beginning. From what I saw, I say she loved Wook more than So. I think her feelings for him were very consistent, even knowing So from the beginning she didn’t hesitate in her love for Wook, even it felt like if in episode 13, Wook agrees to go with her, they would have lived happy and she would never have seen So romantically. I think that, while Soo/So friendship was better presented, their relationship seemed forced, it was like “oh we ran out of time and they have to fall in love”. Then, Wook/Soo broke up, and the next week she loves So. I mean two years passed, but for the viewer was just one episode, how you can swallow that?, while I saw a development in the love between Wook/Soo, I didn’t see when she fell in love with So, her love just showed up there. That’s why I never bought their love, even with all the scenes between them. I never doubted her love for Wook, because she looked really in love with him, however, with So, his attitude was very ambiguous, and after all she had lived, I didn't see clearly the reasons why she ended up by accepting him.
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212 CSA
November 2, 2016 at 5:22 PM
On this ep. So acted like his mother, he abandoned his son as well, with that attitude his child probably does want to dethrone him. He sold his soul and decided to be with YH to take revenge on Wook, now he have a son with her and treats him coldly, that’s not cool, I mean he was an abandoned child, and it's not his son fault.
On the other hand, why Wook had to die with that ugly beard?, he always was beautiful, so whyyyyy?why he looks so old?, the others looked normal, one thing is look sick and another look old, just saying.
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transient
November 3, 2016 at 1:13 AM
So's action is consistent with history. Real life Gwangjong did grew to be suspicious of his own son.
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Nae
November 3, 2016 at 1:33 AM
@CSA
Exactly. I am not surprised his son grew to hate him.
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Baek
November 3, 2016 at 4:25 AM
Yea Wook definitely aged a lot, maybe due to his illness so look more haggard.. He is of the same age as So (as mentioned in ep1)
The styling team seems nice to So and Baek-ah.. Who looked pretty much the same as before despite so many time skip.. Jung would have been the same if not for the "sideburns that grows every time skip"..
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CSA
November 3, 2016 at 6:16 AM
Yes, that's not fair, Ha Neul look gorgeous and beautiful the entire show, so he had to die that way as well. Why did they have to do that to him?, Why did they have to do that to me?. I love him so much,
not because he is beautiful, but because I love the way he acts and sing, he is so talented. Ok, his beauty also helps :D
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pigsnout
November 9, 2016 at 12:56 AM
Yes, it was So and Baek Ah's styling that was the best in the drama.
Even Wang Yo looked good with his eyeliner and earrings. But poor Jung got really bad hair after the first time skip, I just want them to comb it.
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213 Hanajj
November 2, 2016 at 5:38 PM
At last... Eventho it's not a happy ending, I really hope that we can have at least 5 minutes of a happy ending for SoSoo.... Well pity the others who couldn't get what they want but that's life... In the end no gets it...?? I dunno but I have a feeling that it's going to end badly so I didn't cry much ..I just feel numb..
I guess So's love for Soo is far too strong compare to Soo's love for him... She might loves him in her own way but to suffer because of him is a bit too much for her while So is different , he's used to the ways in Goryeo and he suffers a lot before so being a king in that hell of a palace is nothing new to him.he loves her no matter what and this is different for Soo... She is not from that world and would never understand the way of life there and she's not that strong mentally and physically to survive in the palace even with So besides her..I can understand her pain and her troubles. She did take a long time to accept So.
As to why it takes almost a year for So/ha Jin to remember everything , I think this is the result of her wish before she dies in Jungs arms... She wants to forget everything..not knowing everything is a bliss, right? But it hurts So so much...??
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214 Jamie Opso
November 2, 2016 at 6:00 PM
"Episode 21" just came out on Dramafever--it's most of the cast (minus Kang Ha Neul) thanking Dramafever viewers because it was the number watched drama on the site in the Americas. Really cute, you guys!
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harmonyfb
November 3, 2016 at 5:37 PM
I loved Lee Joon-gi's "Hey, I just found out there are fans in America! Sweeet." :laugh:
I'm hoping he gets some more US film work after Resident Evil comes out - every action film needs 100% more Lee Joon-gi.
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Jamie Opso
November 4, 2016 at 5:24 AM
Yes, more Lee Joon Gi, please!
I'm really glad the cast found out they do have fans in America and elsewhere (abroad)--that's got to be some measure of compensation for low ratings domestically, right?
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 9:46 AM
lol I love that discovering fans in places where he doesn't expect them makes him so happy.
It's insane that it happened through this mess, but he really did get a huge profile boost internationally. And I mean huge!
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215 aurorab
November 2, 2016 at 6:08 PM
The scene with Wang So facing the palace alone is so poignant. My heart broke for him, after all of this he's left alone--no lover, no close brothers, no friends, no ji mong. I almost wished he could at least have his daughter with him.
Overall thoughts on the drama: holy potholes in a plot. This drama had so much potential but the execution was terribly, terribly flawed. I think most of the characters had depth, and potential to be amazing, but they were robbed of that by the writers/directors. But whatever, we were robbed of a lot of things.
If it wasn't for the good actors, this drama could've easily been a bore--Lee Junki's acting was what drew me in and kept me invested through the boring first episodes. I wanted to much to side with and understand most of the character's "random" decisions and actions(especially Soo) but the chunks of time and events that were left out and unexplained made it hard. The close up shooting was visually interesting and great for this show.
Sighhh...I want a re-do. Somebody re-write this script and make it was excellent as it could've been
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transient
November 3, 2016 at 1:15 AM
The scene with Wang So facing the palace alone is so poignant. My heart broke for him, after all of this he’s left alone–no lover, no close brothers, no friends, no ji mong.
This. I really felt sad for him. The fact that LJK can really look sad and lonely in that scene made me close to tears
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Ning
November 6, 2016 at 8:17 PM
I also felt really sad for Wang So. He was a total loser all throughout the drama. He lived his life struggling for affection and acceptance. He was never loved nor cared for by his mother and was always being treated like a watch dog by the previous kings (King Taejo, Prince Mu and Prince Yo). He got support from only few people but in the end they all abandoned him. His actions and intentions were always misunderstood nor trusted by many.
He loved Hae Soo wholeheartedly, made a lot of sacrifices for her and was always concerned about her. He protected and saved her a lot of times (begged King Taejo to cancel his wedding to Hae Soo, watched over her as she works as a Damiwon servant, defied the king and queen because they were picking on Soo, drank poison, stood by her in the rain, swallowed his pride and became Prince Yo's dog to protect her, took the flying arrow, proposed marriage so she can leave the palace and so many more). Yes, Hae Soo also fell in love with So but I think her feelings for him were not deep and genuine enough. Her trust for him was so little and she chose to leave him because of some misunderstanding along the way and that she couldn't take living her life in the palace anymore.
In the end, So got the throne but everybody left him and he lived his life in loneliness and misery ??
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216 harmonyfb
November 2, 2016 at 6:09 PM
This was the most unsatisfying ending. I mean, WHAT.
And I'm sorry, but if you suddenly realize that your dreams really happened...what's the first thing you do? I know what the first thing THIS mom would do - run to find out what happened to my daughter. But Hae-Su/Ha-Jin doesn't appear to be too broken up about it?
I'm really surprised this show was pre-produced, because it ended like it was thrown together after a long night of drinking. Lee Joon-gi was, as usual, ethereally beautiful and a fabulous actor (and he single-handedly converted my mother to the love of Kdrama, so thanks, Mr. Lee!)
In fact, nearly all the actors were great, and I weep for what could have been a really compelling story if it had been blocked & edited properly. Tch.
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pigsnout
November 9, 2016 at 12:58 AM
@harmonyfb I understand what you said about the daughter but there us so much they font make clear. We don't even know if Soo remembers her daughter or not when she got her memory back.
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pigsnout
November 9, 2016 at 12:59 AM
I mean DON'T MAKE CLEAR, sorry
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217 rochinipark
November 2, 2016 at 6:30 PM
Wow,as I am typing there was 793 comments. I watched the international broadcast but had to watch last episode across two days as I recorded the live airing but it did not capture the earlier 20mins of the show.But I cannot stand spoilers so went ahead and watched. And only yesterday night caught up with the 1st 20mins.I was bawling away but only cause I was thinking in Gwangjong shoes how he was left all alone again in the cruel palace by people who let him down.
Soo just had to write him letters stating her regret of leaving him with hate but regretting it later. But the ending part was PPL overload and really time traveller Ji Mong there. I feel her actions was her 21st century self whereby you distant yourself with someone who she knows from history as tyrant and the palace was a scary place for little Soo.
But I somehow liked the open endingness where Gwangjong said he will always find his way to her.
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JoyBells
November 2, 2016 at 10:28 PM
Despite its low ratings in Korea and its many faults,i think this drama was hugely popular internationally. Here in dramabeans too,most of the episode recaps had 800+ comments. Only few dramas like Healer,Heirs,YWCFTS,Reply Series have this many comments. :)
We all had valid criticism for this drama and inspite of all its faults,i think we enjoyed it immensely.
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pigsnout
November 3, 2016 at 10:28 PM
It's now 986 comments (987 when I make this)
Not even Heirs, YWCFTS or Reply had this many comments on posts, sometimes dramas just get popular on db but this gets lots of comments in all drama sites.
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218 lazydramaqueen
November 2, 2016 at 7:55 PM
My two cents: it was a hard journey but I'm glad I made it. In spite of all the flaws, there were some beautiful things: LJK's acting, the scenery, lots of swoony hero moments, and surprisingly heart-felt death scenes. The ending wasn't perfect but the second to the last scene where WS stands by himself in front of the palace was intriguing. It felt like a moody art house film. His connection to the idea that Soo might be out there in a different world and his oath to find her gave me hope that the journey to wasn't over. I wanna see that movie. Wished they'd played with the time travel theme more.
I hope SBS does do a Season 2. Forget what happened in the Chinese version (I didn't actually see it). Just put HS and WS in the modern world. Include more reciprocal romance. I wanna see LJK in jeans and a suit. And some making out. And a sex scene where we don't wonder, "Did they or didn't they?" And no more deaths. Also, keep his scars. Loved that he uncovered his face in the end.
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219 toodles
November 2, 2016 at 9:07 PM
I watched ep. 20 again. I don't know if its repetition or just knowing what will happen but I have come to like and accept the ending. It was bittersweet with some hope. They could not be together in that era. Maybe he will show up in her life in the now or maybe they will have to wait for a future reincarnation. Now that Hae Su/Ha Jin's memories are awakened, her soul will call out to him and guide him and I believe they will find each other off screen after a time jump.
"Heavy is the head that wears the crown." Forget Heirs, that should have been the tagline for Scarlet Heart. Being a king and having a happy life seem to be mutually exclusive especially when you lose the one great love of your life. Look at the hollow shell of his father. There comes a point when all of your living and breathing is wrapped up in duty and ruling and just trying to stay ahead of the groups trying to pull you down. Very lonely. I do hope he maintains a friendship with Jung and is able to see his daughter. (Of course he knows.) And maybe he will develop a relationship with one of his kids.
I noticed something about the Wook flashback. The scene is of him and his wife. She is looking at him, but he is looking away towards Hae Su who is not in the frame. He states that he gave his heart but he made mistakes. My interpretation is he didn't know what he had till it was gone, twice. On a side note, wow he really looked gaunt! I don't know if it was great makeup or KHN lost a bunch of weight because he really looked sickly.
And finally, I will definitely watch this again! Even with the flaws, it was a beautiful emotional ride. Loved the beautiful pimple free cast. The entire show was ppl for BB cream! Thanks to the re-cappers and posters. There was so much wonderful dialogue! So farewell and see you at the next eclipse.
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220 justsaying
November 2, 2016 at 9:20 PM
I, justsaying, would like to just say that I have came to terms that the ending for MLSHR sucks in my opinion.
And I have also realized why it ends with the piggyback ride instead of WS/HS 'reunion' in the 21st century.
1. Should they meet in 21st century, fans will assume/expect that there will be a second season of scarlet heart - similar to C-version. BUT, they can't do this because....
2. As someone commented, second season mostly determined by ratings and we know that the rating was not as they have hoped for.
3. No second season is a good thing because I can't take any more drama before WS/HS get together again.
Arggghhhh ... I still can't get over the ending... LOL
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221 girls just wanna have fun
November 2, 2016 at 10:32 PM
Thank you, HeadsNo2, for the recaps.
Beforhand I was counting with 24 episodes, so I was really surprised to have it cut to 20 or maybe I confuse it with JI. Doesn't matter because I love these two very very much. Finally we have some interesting storytelling, not so much cliché and not happy ever after ending, but there will be still some special right?! Hope they won't turn this shows to typical k-drama troop.
I can disagree with plenty of people in here. I found this show quite amusing with my other halfs in tension most of the time, my backwards of my body got exercised without too much effort and I was having many reincarnation experiences as well, what more to wish for?
Why I found the last episode one of the best ones?
* We found our heroine in the peace exil she was wishing for long time. She is carring her secret with herself, so much desired little person of Wang Soo. I went trough the pregnancy myself two years ago and I remember how it was difficult especially the first 3 and the last 2 months in both ways = physically and psychologically. If JH found out that HS was pregnant she wouldn't last till the end nor her baby and the court lady course would be fully fullfilled. She loves her other half so much, but she must protect the little person yet unborn and she wants the king to find himself why she left the palace and her love for him. Unfortunatelly the king lost the trust in her and jelaousy found her way to blind the wisdom. So many letters sent, the belly is growing, it would be so poetic if WS saw by himself why her love had to be shared. Her spirit is broken, that's why there is no way back, she knows Jung will protect her little person and she leaves. Some says, the last hours of our lives we connect with the other world invisible for us and we know what will happen. Some panics and some accepts it. She knew she won't remember.
* Jung could do some more, but he knew they were spied for the king so he thought the spies won't find HS's secret, but it never happen. The history reversed and he was the only one to be with HS in her last minutes of Goryeo existence, like WS was with his mother. That kind of things happen in real life - we act selfishly in those moments we shouldn't and than we pay for it.
* WS found out at last, too late not all the truth, especially why she was craving for him to meet at least once by the lake. He lost something so precious - that's what JM predicted when HS decided to leave the palace. He meets his daughter and respects HS decision when Jung reminds him why HS left it this way. He cancels the exil of Jung and not to confuse his daughter he will see her while Jung visiting the palace in the future. So wise and respectfull.
* HS is reminded by JM of her journey to the past and after she saw the paintings, probably made by Baek-ah, it hits her so strong. She reads the history afterwards and she sees that what JH told her was true - she changed the history.
all my...
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transient
November 3, 2016 at 1:39 AM
The history reversed and he was the only one to be with HS in her last minutes of Goryeo existence, like WS was with his mother.
Wow. I did not even realize this.
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girls just wanna have fun
November 4, 2016 at 12:29 AM
JH = Yeon Hwa
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222 Baek
November 2, 2016 at 11:05 PM
Its finally over!! No more multiple versions nightmare..
History had always been of interest to me.. I love watching drama of this genre, it makes me feel as if the history is alive..
I really like the cast in this show and i think they had done a fairly good job (i think that's really what kept me going despite the nightmares), though some of the focus on characters might be placed wrongly.. This show really had some good material to work with, which is a strength but also a weakness when it failed to utilize it to the best and seen as cutting corners.. Not to mention the editing that's not making it any better..
Maybe the ending wasn't what i wanted to see nor an extremely happy one or there's just some regrets left behind, that made my heart feel very down, heavy, hurt and lots of cant bear to part with..
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223 capt_blackdog is dirty but pretty
November 2, 2016 at 11:08 PM
Despite its flaws and all, I really liked the show. If you slow down and think about it, a lot of huh? moments were actually foreshadowed and didn't come out of nowhere. So my plan is... I'll wait a few weeks, send my husband on a business trip for a week, spend my days working and my evenings re-watching Scarlet Heart. Binge-watching is the best way to go with this show, imo, because it's easier to keep track of all the things going on.
Although I still think that Woo-hee character was sort of unnecessary...
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transient
November 3, 2016 at 1:35 AM
But you have 2 or possible 3 versions to binge watch :D Are you sure you can survive the marathon?
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224 dramamad
November 3, 2016 at 12:22 AM
Ummm, so i followed this through recaps strictly. And i dont think i'll be watching this. Ever. Which is a shame coz i simply love Lee Joon Ki and I've been dying to watch him in something truly spectacular since i watched Arang...At this point though i'm just wishing he'd take something other than a sageuk even, dare i say it, a typical chaebol type story. I also have this strange yearning to see him in regular pants and shirt. And no a photo shoot picture aint going to cut it
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just me
November 3, 2016 at 1:23 AM
LJG is always good. or, you can say spectacular or else.. but there is still room for him to improve. I hope next project he will enter that room.. and we we'll more satisfied..
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225 straws
November 3, 2016 at 1:06 AM
The ending is beautiful. But I still want to see modern Wang So even there will be no interaction between both OTP. Though the scene of modern Wang So would be considered a flaw if it did broadcasted, I don't care cause I accept all MLSHR flaws. I just want more LJG.
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226 transient
November 3, 2016 at 1:32 AM
My reaction when the camera froze at So's scarred face and I realized that it was the ending: WHAT!!!!!
Like other's have mentioned, I was really hoping for So and Su's reunion in the future. I would even take Splish Splash Love reunion at this point. But no, you have to disappoint me show? Why show, why? You made So suffer all his life and you won't even give him a glimmer of hope 1000 years later? I feel cheated, and that coming from someone who loves this show.
I do not want Season 2. Please, this show is messed up as it is, don't make it worse.
On the other note, I feel like the pregnancy is added as an afterthought. Not a word about the pregnancy or even the possibility of it in the previous episode and now a baby? I'm disappointed in you show, or whoever edited out the pregnancy from previous episodes.
LJK is awesome in this episode and thorough the drama. I don't know why, but I can't take the scene where he barged into Jung's house seriously. It feels like LJK was acting too much that it doesn't feel real. I wonder why, when he has been showing us superb acting consistently so far. Maybe the director asked for the over the top reaction? That's the only scene of his that I have mixed feeling.
More importantly, thank you HeadsNo2 for providing us with fast recap for each episode. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to discuss, rant, fangirl, vent our anger and make fun (in a good way) of the show. This is really the best thread for the drama
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227 Sheeeen
November 3, 2016 at 2:33 AM
Everyone says that the ending, where Soo remember So instead of forgetting him and look forward to her future. Honestly, I'll be more sad if she doesn't remember anything. Like, it's so useless that she go back to the past if she doesn't remember anything. About the present that they should show the present So, as a writer... i think it's enough that So said the last part“If you and I are not of the same world then I will find you, my Su-ya.” In my opinion (i know it's just my opinion) it's enough, and if there is no special episode that will show the future, i think i'm contented. But if there's a part two... I wish no one will stop their love story if ever. and i hope the other princes are also having their love story continued. or if not, at least show that they are happy with their life especially the ones who died. I hope the 3rd, 9th, and wook change for the better.
one of the most recommended drama of this year. alongside with uncontrollably fond and descendants of the sun and the K2 as well.
hope to see IU and Lee Jun Ki and all of the princes and other cast in another promising drama.
And for me, It's okay that there's no part two. BUT I want to see them bond again specially the brothers. I just love to see them together, like Astronomer Choi love to see them.
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tulips
November 3, 2016 at 4:33 PM
haha I dropped all you recommendation dramas lol.
I thought this drama was terrible in general. it puzzled me why some people said its good. cant you guys see the chopping editing and directing?
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Ruby
November 3, 2016 at 7:44 PM
I respectfully disagree. Yes there were episodes butchered by bad editing, continuity probs, plot holes etc but I will not dismiss the whole show as bad.
The episode where Lady Oh was executed and Wang So stood by Hae Soo in the rain was heart-rending.
There are scenes in other episodes that were visually stunning. There are moments where the actors just shined.
And the song played whenever someone died was unearthly and beautiful. I think it was one of the reasons some death scenes packed such an emotional wallop . I could go on and on.
I had hoped for a different ending due to several sites claiming the director hinted at a happy ending. I should have known better though and not let my inner fangirl believe the rumors.
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228 Rising Clouds
November 3, 2016 at 2:40 AM
Am I the one who finds the drama wonderful and the ending satisfying? It is wrapped up nicely and it makes sense. Of course, there are some minor things that are left open-ended, they are minor. I guess the production companies actually intends to have a Season 2 as they might have expected high ratings. This explains how some things are left opened.
This is so far my favourite K-drama 2016 and becomes one of my all-time favourite K-dramas. It has hidden gems and brilliance that many can't see or appreciate.
The journey has been worthwhile! Love it!
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The Fan
November 10, 2016 at 1:54 PM
I love the ending too. It is the beautiful ending
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229 tesshan
November 3, 2016 at 3:26 AM
I do not regret watching this drama but why could Beak-Ah not have a happy ending? He was the only one deserving it...he already lost Lady Hae...why did they have to take Woo Hee away from him as well? :_:
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230 Nae
November 3, 2016 at 3:41 AM
Great Recap. Thank you for all the recaps.
Now we know why Hae Soo left the palace because she was pregnant. It was good that Wang Jung raised her daughter. The little girl was cute.
I didn't feel bad for Wang So for being lonely in the end. He couldn't see past his love for Hae Soo. He was a love sick puppy. How he treated his son was very wrong. I am not surprised Gyeongjong grew to hate his father. Had he treated his son better and actually helped him maybe his son wouldn't have reversed many of his policies. I am glad Yeonhwa read him when she confronted him about not visiting his son on his birthday.
Yes Yeonhwa loved Wang So but she didn't marry him for love. She married him for power. TBH I don't think she expected to get Wang So's heart. I think she expected Wang So to do his part as King and not be so focused on Hae Soo.
I was fine with ending. Overall the acting was good. The writing was bad. Some characters had potential but were wasted. It should have been longer than 20 episodes because it felt like the story was rushed.
Like I said the acting was good. Fans were crazy. Kudos to all the actresses & actors.
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pigsnout
November 3, 2016 at 7:00 AM
No, YeonHwa was bitter to the end that So loved Soo but would never love her or care for her. She married him for power but she also had this fantasy that he would like her other than only for the thrones sake, that's why she was always so bitter to Hae Soo and kept trying to get rid of her.
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Nae
November 3, 2016 at 6:26 PM
@Pigsnout
No, Her mother Queen Hwangbo told her she couldn't have both. She had to give one of them up Love or Power. Yeonhwa chose power. Yeonhwa let that fantasy go when she gave Hae Soo a reality check. Yeonhwa was bitter in the end because Wang So treated their son badly. Plus he couldn't see past his love for Hae Soo. Everything was about Hae Soo. That is why he ended up alone which I don't feel bad for him. When Yeonhwa read him in the end I cheered because it was the truth.
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Ruby
November 3, 2016 at 7:54 PM
Yeonhwa deserved a miserable life. She usurped Hae Soo's place in So's eyes. Of course he had to marry her to keep the throne but it doesn't mean he liked that one bit. And he is making sure she knows that every day.
In the end, she was just a second version of So's mother. While I don't agree with So treating his son badly, I can only guess how Yeonhwa is poisoning her children's minds against their father. She wants the throne and she will rule it through her children.
She deserves every bitter pill fate shoves down her throat.
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pigsnout
November 3, 2016 at 10:22 PM
@Nae no, Yeonhwa said she chose power but why was she still so bitter towards Soo if she truly accepted that she will never have any kind of love from Wang So?
She expected that he would be attracted to her and make her first in his life once she was his queen -he didn't, even dead and gone Hae Soo was still first. She expected he would be a caring parent to their son, he wasn't because he knew the kid was only born to be a king for Yeonhwa like Yo was for his mother.
Yeonhwa saying something doesn't make it the truth. She going around acting like Soo was more to blame than her for what Wook did is just her being bitter and angry because all the most important men in her life cared for Hae Soo more than her even if they ended up giving Yeonhwa what she wanted. The same with what she said to So at the end.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 9:54 AM
I think she expected Wang So to do his part as King and not be so focused on Hae Soo.
Except that he was doing just that - the emancipation of slaves, for starters - and she berated him for it.
@Ruby and @pigsnout are right, Yeonhwa was jealous of even dead Su and couldn't stomach that she occupied such a central place and influence in So's thoughts, and she was actually queen SMSS mk. II - wanting all the power but also resentful when the one she loves merely tolerates her at best.
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231 gg
November 3, 2016 at 5:23 AM
almost (dr)jintastic!
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232 Man Ahil
November 3, 2016 at 5:32 AM
Watching the ending i felt that it was a direct indication that there would be a sequel. He's realised shes from another world, he is ready to "find" her. Plus, so much has not been explained, like Ji Mong in the future, SoSoo's daughter etc. The only logical explanation is that the director was planning a sequel since its pre produced (also considering that the Chinese version had a season 2). But since the ratings have not been doing well in Korea, he might change his mind. (And this, i fear the most)
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233 Malyza
November 3, 2016 at 6:04 AM
The ending was similar with C version, the difference only when Su back to present life, she will meet So again, but Korean version a bit cruel, don't let them meet again.
For anyone who not yet watch Chinese Scarlet Heart, i recommend you guy to watch it. It worth to watch. The plot is better and reasonable, all characters have their scene. No matter what how many times i watch C version, i still crying like river.
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234 Janice
November 3, 2016 at 6:24 AM
I am honestly just annoyed with the flow of the show. I love the cast and I think they portrayed their characters reaaally well. However, I get so frustrated with the flow of the show which honestly just make me confused and wonder what did i miss even though I didnt miss any part of the episode. The editing of the show is absolutely terrible and honestly I just wished they would stop all the time-skips which didnt really help in the flow of the story at all.
The characters are poorly developed and a lot of times I dont understand their intentions behind their actions or the explanation is too brief for me to be convinced. One example will be Chae Ryung, whom we have to guess ourselves that she has some link with the 9th prince and is not totally loyal to Hae Soo.
The political machinations is just plain stupid since its like non existent with all the kings going crazy and all. Everything just doesnt makes sense and it just grates on my nerves since I have to infer everything and fill in the gaps with my own deductions the entire time.
I do however like the ending in with how they get separated with one in the modern world and the other alone in Goryeo minus the paintings since they dont make any sense like which historian is that free to draw about Hae Soo bowing to the king when she was a nobody then. The scene where Lee Joon Gi says he will find Hae Soo in the other world is just plain awesome as I could feel his eyes literally staring into my soul.
I honestly cant believe how this is a preproduced drama. I mean when the team was reviewing the drama, cant they see the flaws of the drama. If we as amateurs can see it, wouldnt they be able to see more and edit accordingly?
Yes, I do agree that the probably the limitations of how the show can only be 20 episodes probably doesnt allow a lot of room for the story to be developed properly. However, the team knew of it and should have a clear focus in the drama. For me, it just seems like how they are trying to be greedy, wanting to squeeze everything in and then at the last moment realised that there isnt enough time and just kill off all the kings with them all going crazy. Its just plain absurd.
Even though there is a petition going around calling for a season 2 of the drama, if they dont change the team and correct all these major flaws the drama have, it is just gonna continue to be a flop in ratings. I am already ready to just boycott the drama the writer and the production team of scarlet heart ryeo already in fear of disappointment again.
Instead of a season 2, I would rather they remake the show with proper development with a different team tying up the endless loose knots the show has.
To end off, I do love the show and feel that it has a charm that keeps me watching it despite being so frustrated with it but I am just gonna cross my fingers and hope that they will remake the show with the same cast somehow with the gaps filled. If only that fantasy of mine will...
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Barbrey
November 5, 2016 at 2:25 AM
I agree with all of this. Much as I loved the show, I'm against encouraging a season 2, and a petition for one is just saying it was okay what you did in season 1, when it was not okay at all. I have never seen such amateurish editing, for one thing, in any show I have ever seen. Until they get the first one right - and I think they could do a lot by inserting deleted scenes, voice-overs and flashbacks - they don't deserve to make money off a second one.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 9:57 AM
I'm actually glad the drama was a domestic ratings flop - at least one audience responded to the messiness with a resounding NO. Like you said, despite our love for the show, asking for a season 2 is basically endorsing the way season 1 was done - and I just can't do that.
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235 pigsnout
November 3, 2016 at 6:56 AM
I just finished watching the episode and at the beginning all I wanted was to cry and cry..... and then by the end I was so angry that I could only laugh, to avoid accidentally breaking my screen.
This is not a good drama. Only a stupid person would think it's all good. But I still cared about the characters even when they became frustrating or did dumb things.
The only thing I was happy about is that So and Soo have a daughter. And So definitely knows that was his child after he asked her age/her mother.
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236 cool
November 3, 2016 at 7:50 AM
really love how lee jun ki and iu acting for this drama. but disapoint for the ending... this drama can be a good drama if the ending is different.. i can wait for your next drama Jun Ki ssi... :-)
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237 Sunny
November 3, 2016 at 10:48 AM
Thank you Heads for the final recap. Kudos to the actors and actresses for their hard work. I concluded Soo left the palace because she knew her days are numbered and she was carrying a baby. I refuse to believe Chae Ryung is the reason whatsoever. She wanted a peaceful life with So during her last days. Being a consistent selfless albeit stupid person that she is, this is the only selfish thing she wanted ever since she landed in Goryeo. So on the other hand is too busy protecting his throne and his loved ones, to even notice what Soo is experiencing. It was sad when she said "finally it's just you and me" while imagining So beside her. Soo has been a puzzling character and I sorta get to understand her a bit in the last episode. I started watching this for LJK but I ended up being intrigued by Soo. I don't even care what the ending is coz most k dramas have bad ending, I was ready for it. This show is like ripped jeans, with holes here and there, but I'd still wear it coz I love it, it's trendy plus I can patch up the holes with anything I want.
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Gopi
November 3, 2016 at 3:13 PM
Funny you should mention ripped jeans and patching up holes. I have been obsessing over the clothes in that drama and particularly the bat cape and the orange and grey green/bronze? outfit LJG is wearing in episode 12. I can manage sewing but I am hopeless at creating basic sewing patterns and I was wondering if a resourceful and/or erudite Beanie could help by providing links to patterns I could use. I have already roamed the Internet searching for Goryeo fashion in English but with poor results. I cannot read Korean, but maybe someone could suggest what words I should type to have results in Korean. Thanks a bunch.
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Sunny
November 3, 2016 at 8:59 PM
Yeah Gopi, visually this show is very appealing, be it costumes, scenery and casts. LJK certainly rocked the bat-man cape effortlessly. The not so appealing thing is the story telling, too many mysteries remained unanswered, for instance how did Wook get the bracelet back, did it crawl, walk or run back to him. Not to mention Soo's pregnancy. if they just hinted with a mild morning sickness it would have been ok.
On the side note, I do a bit of sewing too. Take a peek in Pinterest they have basically everything there. Good luck on finding goryeo hanboks sewing pattern, Gopi.
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Baek
November 3, 2016 at 8:40 PM
Yes i want to believe thats why too.. I simply cant buy the chae-ryung reason solely that the drama seems to be focusing at.. and i hoped thats just an excuse..
But the drama could have done better like show some sign of her pregnancy.. (maybe its not obvious for morning sickness at that stage and stuff, but since she "know" she's pregnant.. maybe can show scenes like she took extra care of herself, a simple rubbing of the stomach for eg? or show lots of concern from a fall or something.. or when someone come running, she would unconsciously dodge or walk out of his way.. or things a pregnant lady would do normally..)
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Sunny
November 3, 2016 at 9:05 PM
I agree 10000% with u on this Baek.
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238 Seltzerwater
November 3, 2016 at 1:05 PM
HAE SU’S MATERNAL INSTINCT
I think we’ve seen in the show that Hae Su has an incredible maternal instinct. One of the reasons that she connected with WS so deeply is because she instantly cared about him through his pain. And with the other princes too. They all saw that self-less love Hae Su was freely giving them and they all fell for it, HARD because in ancient Goryeo, after marrying age, everyone was out for themselves. I feel like this strong maternal instinct is what saved HS and WS’s baby at the end.
Just like a mother wolf corner in danger, HS knew that her baby was in a incredibly precarious position. She does not have a position at the palace: she is not a royal concubine. She has many enemies. The primary of which is Yeon Hwa. Presumably, when HS was pregnant, YH was not. YH would have seen this as a HUGE threat to herself and would have effective done anything to get rid of HS baby. Now, HS most likely knew about Lady Oh’s miscarriage as it was common knowledge in the palace. Since YH’s family was the one who got blame for Lady Oh’s miscarriage, YH probably would feel like it was poetic justice to get rid of HS’s baby. That’s the first threat. The second threat is all the other people in the palace who feel like HS is Gwangjong’s weakness. Gwangjong cannot protect HS 24/7, he has tried, but if she has to watch every single bite of food/drink or every step in the palace, it would put her into a high-risk pregnancy since she’s already stressed and has a heart palpitations. The best strategy was to NOT TELL ANYONE about the pregnancy and try to find a way out so that she could have the rest of her pregnancy in peace. The baby must be a secret before anything else.
Hae Su is incredible goal-drive in ep 19, because she was protecting her baby against all cost. So this means, that when Chae Ryung dies, HS is driven to anxiety, but also because Chae Ryung’s death only foreshadows what palace politics will mean for HS if her pregnancy is found out. It’s truly a bloody business. HS express to Gwangjong that she wants out, but GJ doesn’t understand why yet, he thinks that she’s blaming him for CR’s death. And heartbreakingly enough, in the second scene, he offers her the position of royal concubine and that when she has a child, she will become second queen. Of course, he doesn’t know by this time that she already knows that she’s pregnant. The position of royal concubine would RESTRICT her to the palace, trapping her in close proximity with her greatest enemy, YH. Secondly, HS uses Jung’s decree to try to get out of the palace, which Gwangjong again disregards, because he thinks that she’s still angry with him for Chae Ryung. We know now that Hae Su is truly desperate to leave and Gwangjong keeps blocking all her actions. That’s why she thanks Wook when Wook pounds in the final nail but telling Gwangjong about their previous engagement. This is truly the FINAL hurtful thing that releases Hae Su from Gwangjong, but allows her to...
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Seltzerwater
November 3, 2016 at 1:06 PM
but allows her to protect the baby. When Gwangjong asks Hae Su “Why are you hurting me so much?” Of course Hae Su has nothing to say because the real answer is “Because I’m protecting our baby.” which she CANNOT say because GJ would never let her leave.
I find her actions so admirable in this episode because she absolutely HAD to throw away everything that was important in her life to protect their baby. And I hope GJ realizes this at the end.
The very last bit of dialogue in Ep 19 is misleading because we do not know about the pregnancy. It implies that she truly does not wish to have ever met WS because of all the pain they’ve experienced. Where as I see the ending of 19 is longing for something that could never be; she cannot have a family with WS because he is already married to another. And she has to leave him to protect what legacy she has with him. *UGLY CRYING*
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Barbrey
November 3, 2016 at 4:55 PM
+1000, my reading too.
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Puni
November 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM
Love your analysis here, Seltzerwater!!
I always felt part of So's attraction to Su was how she cared for his well being as a mother should. A his mother never did. He wanted to keep all that caring for just himself of course. Having a child would have made Gwangjong even more possessive of both of them. Su's priorities changed and she did make the ultimate sacrifice for her child. Gwangjong recognized that when Jung revealed the truth and in return his paternal instincts kicked in .. he also sacrificed, by letting Jung continue to raise his daughter.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 3, 2016 at 6:18 PM
See, this is why I'm furious at episode 18 and 19 for going on ad nauseam about Chae-ryung - it was an utter bs excuse (So's actual cruelty would have been a much better reason) and in the end, it turned out to be false since Su was just using it as an excuse to get herself and her baby the hell out of the palace before So would do something even worse or Yeonhwa try to poison her/kill her baby the way her mother was accused of doing to Court Lady Oh all those years ago.
And yet we, the audience, are given not even a hint that there's something more to Su's decision than a fit of inexplicable stubbornness over a character she declares to be a 'sister' like only five minutes after she dies, for the sake of narrative convenience. The writing really went out of its way to undermine Su, and it sucks.
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Maui
November 4, 2016 at 5:03 AM
@Seltzerwater...I read it this way as well....I think WS knows in the end the real reason HS left him when he meets his daughter in the garden...another reference to what HS wanted to do with WS at the end too, meet in the garden.....it's I think the reason he agrees so quickly to let Jung keep and raise his daughter , similar to how Taejo sent him away to be raised by the general. Jung therefore, ends up being So's most trusted general in that moment. Not leading his army, but raising and protecting his daughter. It's why he removes the exile. He realizes HS found a safe environment for their daughter to grow, and this allows him to spend time watching her grow up....
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wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 11:32 AM
Really love what you said!! I think a lot of the audience were unable to empathize with Su because the production withheld this information from us. This results in a disconnect to understand Su and her intentions since we were privy with the pregnancy knowledge. I knew that Su must have thought of all possibilities and realized that there's nothing she can do except to leave behind the man that she loves in order to protect something even more important. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure she would've chosen to stay by his side if she could.
I'm just glad that So seems to realize all this in the end and lifted Jung's exile. I really wanted those two to get along, and it was a relief that they reconciled through Su's daughter.
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pineapplegongzhu
November 3, 2016 at 2:48 PM
Seriously, @Seltzerwater, you're supposed to be a comedic screenwriter. WHY do you insist on making me CRY?!
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justsaying
November 3, 2016 at 7:30 PM
@Seltzerwater, Thank you... I needed that...
Thank you all for the comments, inspirations of what each episodes actually or could actually meant. I'm feeling a bit better now knowing the sacrifices (or implied sacrifices) made by HS because of her love to WS.
Oh... whatever (with a resigned sigh) I give up. Its been three days now and I'm still here talking about HS/WS. LOL
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tulips
November 3, 2016 at 4:47 PM
she could be truthful to him and explain him clearly why she wanted to leave. but of course, she chose to break his heart instead by doing the noble idiot. she loves him but it was not enough to trust him with anything right until the end. it all comes down to trust. she is not convinced he will let her go due to the pregnancy. she is not convinced that he will respect her about their daughter not living at the palace. she just didnt trust him at all.
kudos to the writer to write such interesting love story. a love story that only consist 'love' but no 'trust'. :) this is such a breath of fresh air for me tbh.
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239 pineapplegongzhu
November 3, 2016 at 2:48 PM
The scar on Wang So’s face
It is not only the physical representation of his damaged heart and unhealthy emotional tendencies, but also the cause of them. Because of that scar, he is considered and treated as an outcast from the very beginning. This has made him into a ruthless person with psychotic tendencies.
When Hae Su covers over it, there are so many ramifications. Suddenly, he is acceptable. Suddenly, he is a contender for the throne. It doesn’t matter that the scar is still there; since it is unseen, it is as if it doesn’t exist. WS is finally able to receive some forms of acceptance denied him before. When he told Yeon Hwa that without Hae Su he would have no future, he was spot on.
Like the BB cream, Hae Su’s unmitigated and freely given kindness and care covers over Wang So’s emotional scars. Given how he has been starved for any form of affection, it is no wonder that he confuses kindness with love. However, she can never fulfill the deepest longings of his heart, partially because those longings are irrevocably attached to his mother’s rejection of him. @Seltzerwater was correct in saying Jung is who So would have been had he received his mother’s love.
Because he is now “handsome” (i.e. without the deformity visible…….oh, who am I kidding, LJG is ridiculously handsome), so many privileges are afforded him, it’s easy to forget that the scar hasn’t gone away, it’s just hidden from sight. It hasn’t “healed” to the point of disappearing. Furthermore, there are scars all over his body, which Hae Su sees when he becomes injured from the arrow. The scar on his face is not the only one, there are more “under the surface.”
During the rain ceremony and when he ascends the throne, the “scar”, the ruthlessness of his nature, returns to the surface. Both Hae Su and the audience has been lulled into thinking it isn’t there anymore when several episodes show his loving and sacrificial self all with the help of BB cream. But, the scar is always there, underneath, as is his more dangerous tendencies.
It’s interesting that whenever WS is separated unwillingly from HS, during the year as an envoy and in the finale, he somehow reminds himself of who he really is by either covering over his face with the mask, or wiping off the make-up. Hae Su is that BB cream that covers over his hideousness, and makes him acceptable because he feels accepted/loved by her. He views her as his source of wholeness.
Even though the ending is tragic in terms of HS and WS being separated, I would say it is still redemptive. We know Gwangjong became a wise and just ruler, AND he did it without HS. His love for her, his memory of her and her love was enough to remind him of his outcast status and how she redeemed him. Therefore, he can institute reforms that help outcasts (slaves, the examination system that allows for meritocracy) like himself. I find that cool.
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Gopi
November 3, 2016 at 3:17 PM
Or WS got over his first crush. Don't we all?
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Barbrey
November 3, 2016 at 5:06 PM
Loved this analysis, and I agree, though maybe I'll add:
It's kind of an irony for me that the reason Su loves So so much is because of his scar and what it represents to her, his loneliness and vulnerability, not his ruthless, wild streak that others see. I think it was me not Seltzerwater that said So would have been like Jung if he hadn't been rejected by his mother (though maybe we both said it), but it's precisely because So is an outcast that Su begins to have deep feelings for him and wants to help.
Therefore, when So removes that make-up at the end, I felt it was almost an optical illusion when we went to close-up of his face and the music stopped, just silence, as we did it. Does the scar represent his ruthlessness or does it represent his loneliness? Either is correct, but it's more correct to my mind to see it as both. One Su loved him for, the other she couldn't accept - quite the dilemma.
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Barbrey
November 3, 2016 at 5:13 PM
And just to elaborate: I loved how the drama didn't compromise on this duality right to the end. When Su's looking at that picture we get two narratives - the lonely, wise and good king, and the "purge" and vision of killing in the courtyard. He was both people, but without Su, he might have only been one, and that's not the wise and good king.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 3, 2016 at 6:02 PM
@Barbrey - exactly, I like that So wasn't whitewashed and that they went kind of grey with his character actually wanting power and being ruthless in pursuing it even if he started for noble reasons. He's almost an antihero in that sense, and I love that.
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Pineapplegongzhu
November 4, 2016 at 2:13 AM
Ah, I love that you mentioned the duality. And yes, thanks for adding that the scar also signals his vulnerability and loneliness. I should have mentioned that, but was too focused on the who psychotic part! Ha ha!
The scar represents his isolation.
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Puni
November 3, 2016 at 6:07 PM
@Barbrey I think the removal means a few things.. not having anyone left to cover up for is one, but much more.
So's confidence in being himself.. getting over the fear of being scene as a monster, the last obstacle, to being his true self. Searching for Su without anything holding him back. Fearlessness..
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Barbrey
November 3, 2016 at 7:20 PM
I like this too, Puni!
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pineapplegongzhu
November 4, 2016 at 2:00 AM
Whoops! Sorry, @Barbrey! I didn't mean to credit the wrong person re: Jung!!!
In truth, if I don't go back to the original post, I sometimes get you and @Seltzerwater mixed in my head because you are both writers, and you tend to see the same things.
But, my apologies again!
We missed talking to you last night! I noticed you came on after @Seltzerwater and I left in the Hangouts. But, hopefully we can chat soon! <3 <3 <3
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 6:36 PM
Our times are all different, of course. I just check in when I happen to be on my computer, which is quite a bit since I got obsessed with Scarlet Heart but needs to stop. What time do you usually check in there and what's your time zone. Mine's Pacific Time so like when it's 6 am here it's 10 pm in Korea.
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pineapplegongzhu
November 5, 2016 at 2:53 PM
@Barbrey
I'm GMT (England), so I'm 8+ hours ahead of PST. My family lives in California, so I'm always calculating in my head when they are awake versus asleep. Usually, I'm going to bed when they're in the middle of their day. :)
Sometimes if i wake up early, I catch them before they go to sleep. :)
Awkward time zones....ugh.
pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 3, 2016 at 5:59 PM
@PG - that's a really great point about So and his scar, it's the thing that marks him as a 'monster' to people at first but it's also the direct cause of the isolation and ill-treatment of his early years..... which led to him growing up not entirely well-balanced, emotionally.
And it makes sense that that's part of what draws Su to him, because her early instinct is to step in the breach wherever she can - save the drowning kid, stop Chae-ryung from getting an unfair beating, save Jung from the forest bandits...... and once she realises the scar is making So's life that hard, save So from that treatment at least temporarily by covering it and letting him shed the mask. But she can only cover it, it's not actually vanished.
Also I like what you said about So actively choosing to remind himself of it as a tie to the memory of her, even as it represents both that vulnerability and his ruthlessness. There's nothing clean-cut about that scar, metaphorically speaking.
(I also rather like that Su married Jung, who as you guys said is what So could have been without the scar - not only is he So's only surviving full brother, he's the one who's the most like So in temperament even if they don't realise it. After all, So was the first one to offer Su a platonic marriage to escape the palace, even if she didn't take up with that idea until Jung - and ironically, took it up because of So)
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wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 11:46 AM
That's a great parallel to point out that both So and Jung used marriage as a means of escape for Su. Only she didn't accept the first time around and ultimately left with Juh.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM
It's a sad tale of missed opportunities, really - if Su had married So either of the times he asked, they'd never have got into this bind. But by the end her departure becomes imperative, and that's what finally gets her to leave - her baby (if only that was made clearer :/)
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wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 9:02 PM
Then, we wouldn't have had Wang So as king. LOL I don't know why this PD/writer thought it's a good idea to just let viewers fill in the blanks or connect the dots for themselves. =_=
Aaliya
November 4, 2016 at 3:47 AM
Wow, nice analysis, and correlation of "So either uncovers his scar or puts his mask on " so that he doesn't forget her..
There is something about his character which pulls me to him, either because he doesn't fit the bill of "conventional male characters" who follows morals and treats everything in a fair way!
Ironically she changed by leaving him, though she promised that she will change him by being by his side.
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Aaliya
November 4, 2016 at 3:49 AM
* She changed him by leaving him , which she couldn't achieve by being his side.
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wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 11:57 AM
I think what you said about the scar and @Seltzerwater'S post about Su's maternal instincts are what drew So-Su to each other.
Just like if a mother has two kids, her attention would be drawn to the problem child more than the behaving one since the trouble kid needs more help. Su is helpful in general as we can see her behavioural pattern even with strangers. So, when she saw how lonely So was and how he seemed so misunderstood, I think she came to stop believing what history taught her about GJ and to focus on getting to know the man before her. She noticed his scar was the handicap that resulted in his lack of love and how others immediately made him out to be a monster. Her motherly side made her want to do something for him; not to mention, she already had the make-up skills. And we all know that So just interprets love in a linear way, having never received love, he didn't feel a need to distinguish friendship vs. love. Su was the only one who consistently paid attention to him, showed him care (though she did fear him at one point), offered him consoling words, talked to him like a real person despite his rank as a prince, etc. These differences from the average person in his personal experiences to date made him unable to turn away from Su--she made his world different by covering up his scar and eventually falling in love with him.
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240 tsuyoi_hikari
November 3, 2016 at 4:26 PM
The writer try to imply this ~great love~ between this two but I dont see it. They spent more time being unhappy with each other rather than the opposite. You cant sell us their love story when they are so unhappy together. Soo was ready to jump ship when So killed Chaeryung despite he actually has a legit reason to do so. I really cant understand people who seemed to buy her reasons for leaving. Was it his obsession towards her? Was it her inability to tame him? Was it her pregnancy? She was always ready to understand other people like Wook or Chaeryung who practically responsibled in killing Moo, Eun & his wife. But she cant seemed to offer the same gesture towards the person that she claimed to love with all of her heart?
At the end of the day, she just didnt love or trust him enough to stay or go through all the hardship with him. She was determined to leave him after Chaeryung’s incident and later Jung & Wook’s incident just seal the deal for her despite she know full well how it would hurt him. And Soo herself knew that she left So with hate rather than love. And that is not something you do for someone that you claimed to love. She claimed she wait for him and so on but he is just someone that she can toss around when things got hard/difficult. She said that she wont give up and accept Yeonhwa as the Queen but seconds later she change her mind. How weak was her love? This is the same girl who said to So that she understand why he killed all the monks (No one can excuse So for all the gruesome killing?) but later since he kill someone dear to her, she suddenly have a change of heart? He is just someone who always at the back of her list. She didnt trust him enough to stay beside him when he is the King and at the end, she didnt trust him enough to tell him the truth regarding their daughter (she simply didnt trust him that he will follow her request).
Make no mistake since I dont mind all these, I just hate that the writer claimed that Soo ~love~ So but nearly all her actions showed the opposite. I need her actions to make sense. She wrote letters on how she love him, yearn for him, etc and she cried at the end saying; ‘I’m sorry I left you all alone’ – I mean, really? You didnt trust and love him enough to stay beside him and now you’re sorry? O_o I prefer if the writer made Soo realized that none of the princes deserve her love (which make more sense for her leaving So) since all this plot that she actually love So made her very pretentious – all talk but no action.
And So also is at fault here. You are not supposed to force kiss someone and being unapologetic towards it later. And you are not supposed to claim someone as yours after she educate you again and again that she is not your property because she is not.
I never side-eye a couple as much as this before. It really frustrated how the writer do everything wrong for their relationship. You cant really see, feel or understand their love.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 3, 2016 at 6:08 PM
"not supposed to" works rather differently in a Goryeo setting than in the modern one. And I'll say this about So - he might have said he wasn't sorry after the forced kiss, but literally everything about his expression and his actions in the immediate aftermath (look at the screencap of his face and him telling her he won't kiss her again without permission) indicate that he actually is sorry for what he did, he's just not saying the words.
If your issue with the drama is that So doesn't behave like an acceptable 21st-century man, then I don't really see the point of having watched this to the end. I mean, he force-kissed her once but then Su was the one to initiate their next kiss? Poor writing actually scuppered what should have been an emphasis on their mutual feelings - I mean whoever heard of a love story where you're supposed to accept that one party's feelings changed at some unknown point during a time skip?
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 3, 2016 at 6:38 PM
Also that forced kiss, UNLIKE most kdrama forced kisses, wasn't framed as romantic. I'd have had a very different opinion if it had.
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Seltzerwater
November 3, 2016 at 7:47 PM
Yeah in the SBS version, it's short and the camera cuts away to the pond like we're suppose to be embarrassed watching it.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 7:56 AM
Yep, I liked that the drama avoided treating it as romantic or as an event that turned Su's mind in the direction of pity/sympathy/romance. She's already sympathetic to So and knows how he feels about her, all the kiss triggers from her is the admission that she likes someone else!
241 Sasha
November 3, 2016 at 7:13 PM
Who does hae soo have the baby with?
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spazmo
November 3, 2016 at 7:33 PM
it's So's baby!
: )
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242 Jamie Opso
November 3, 2016 at 8:48 PM
A few little things, dear Beanies, stuck in my memory and bothered me enough that I had to rewatch the last episode.
1) When So frantically gallops to (dead) Hae Soo, we hear her voiceover: “I long for you. I also miss you. However, I cannot go to you. I have grown weary of the heartlessness of a kind man. I hope we can meet again one day in the garden.” Is Hae Soo speaking of Jung as the kind man she grows weary of? Aw, I hope not. And is "heartlessness" a mistranslation? :(
2) The rock paintings (etchings) I wondered about were not multiple paintings of So! I saw 5 rock paintings: 1 each of So, Eun, Baek Ah, Wook, and one more I couldn’t figure out—a man with a top knot who is probably Jung but might be Mu (not sure, though). I might be the only one who didn't catch that Hae Soo was not just painting So over and over again. This is sweeter, to me: that she is remembering all the brothers she was close to (notably not Yo and not Won). It's also something I can understand her doing toward the end of her life.
3) When grieving Jung pulled out her hair pin: I couldn’t figure out what it was at first, but everyone was saying hair pin. It wasn't the one So gave her (thank goodness), but the one Hae Soo used to threaten her own life in the Damiwon when she was protecting him from So and the guards. Why couldn't I figure that out earlier? So many details!
4) Yeon Hwa accuses So of freeing slaves because of Hae Soo. So said to Yeon Hwa: “Suppose I am. However, even if you do know, will anything change?” THAT’s when Yeon Hwa says she understands why Hae Soo left him--mostly to hurt him, but also because that IS one reason Hae Soo left him: understanding So did not stop him from ever doing anything he wanted to do or considered necessary (marrying his little niece, killing people, etc.).
5) Their little daughter ran away from So to Jung, who tried to protect her from So behind himself. However, Little HS was fascinated by So and kept staring at him. This is both a completely normal scenario with a young child and a stranger AND a repeat of this Hae Soo-So-Jung love triangle.
6) When infirm Wook had his flashback, Lady Hae was looking at him, while he looked off...at Hae Soo (who is not shown). It wasn’t a flashback of Wook and Lady Hae enjoying each other’s company, and there were a number of those times in the show. So why pick that scene? Lady Hae is looking at him with a little consternation at the end, because she knows what's going on. Wook is not purely thinking of Lady Hae with love at the end, he is regretting...and still simultaneously thinking of Hae Soo. Her presence is felt strongly there, even though she is not shown.
That's all I've got for now, Beanies! I may be the only ones not to have seen/understood these completely the first time through, but I thought I'd share.
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girls just wanna have fun
November 4, 2016 at 12:25 AM
1) She left the palace because she "have grown weary of the heartlessness of a kind man" = Wang Soo. He is a very kind man yet he has this bleading side of him which causes spilling lots of blood in a very cold manner. It's also kind of necessary if he wants to stay a good king - get rid of your enemies before they harm anybody not only you.
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Jamie Opso
November 4, 2016 at 5:10 AM
Oh, thank goodness it's So who she meant. I was really worried she meant Jung. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
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wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 12:23 PM
1) Definitely So! ^^ Jung was never heartless in her eyes.
2) I wish something more was done with the rock paintings!! It's like she did them, but they bear no significance, so they were just lying there on the table as the urn got fought over. You'd think each prince, if alive, would've taken his own painted rock as a Su memento... Pretty sure that last one was Jung. Haha... I knew she did paint So over and over. But he did get the largest rock! LOL
3) I didn't know what the heck it was either and I kept rewatching that scene!! It looked like a shard from a broken bottle. (You know, the kind that'd hold wine in sageuks. XD) Didn't know it was that hairpin till I read the recap, and even my memory of that scene is now fuzzy cuz I thought she used something sharper and pointier to cut her neck... =P
4) I guess this scene of "understanding" by YH was left open to interpretation. It's like...
Audience: What is the take-home message? What did she understand???
PD/Writer: Viewers, figure it out on your own...just like you've been doing all series long.
I agree with you though. I think it's that So will always do what he wants to do, regardless of who he angers or the consequences. Just like he was ready to marry Su despite her scar, lack of politically powerful household background, and no support from his ministers. It's like: To hell with it! I do as I please, especially since I am king now!
5) Haha! Little kids are always curious, so the whole head poking out from behind Jung was really cutely done. =D And I love how she ran towards Jung, calling "Abeoji" at the first chance, just in case there might be danger.
6) Maybe he was reminiscing over his regrets and reflecting on his life? He knew of Lady Hae's deep love for him, and he didn't realize his love for her till after she parted. He didn't get to be with Su either since his ambitions and circumstances made him seek the throne and abandon her. Perhaps he's pondering how nice it might have been had he only lead a simple life with loving wife Lady Hae, who only had eyes for him. Maybe he would've been happy and have no regrets. Lady Hae loved him so much that she gave him permission to be with Su when she saw how much he loved her, and realized the feelings were mutual between him and Su. Not every woman would have such a big heart.
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Jamie Opso
November 4, 2016 at 2:27 PM
Thanks, Lisa! I've really enjoyed reading your posts here, especially the series of comments on this final episode.
1) It's great to get confirmation that Hae Soo was talking about So, not Jung. That makes much more sense, and what a relief! I don't know why, but it hurt my feelings on Jung's behalf to think she could be referring to him.
2) LOL at So getting the biggest rock!
3) Hae Soo's hairpin at the Damiwon was pointy on one side, but the ornament/handle part that Jung was showing was the same as I remember: something dark, plain and polished--wood? shell?
4) Yes, agreed it's open to interpretation what Yeon Hwa meant: "PD/Writer: Viewers, figure it out on your own…just like you’ve been doing all series long." Lol!
5) I especially liked that So was about to pull that possessive "my person" business with his little daughter, when Jung dropped to his knees to beg him on Hae Soo's behalf...and So relented. He did learn something, after all!
6) The glimpse into Wook's mind is like #4, above, isn't it? So much is left for us to figure out. I love that it remains enigmatic, even though we see his memory.
How many days later is it, and we're still thinking about this show? I have a feeling this one will stay with me for a while. :)
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wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 9:19 PM
Thanks, Jamie!! I've been so busy and every recap I wanna comment, by the time I get to it, it's already several hundred comments!! So, I never had time to really read through them besides posting my own. Now that the series is done, I no longer need to worry about newer recaps and can backtrack all the insightful comments. I had a lot more to say these last two ep's; hence, the multiple self replies. LOL
1) I think the way So was changing while being again really did make her think whether she should stay in the palace. She was seeing more of his dark side when Wook or others besides herself were involved.
2) Oops... Made a typo. She did NOT draw So over and over. But yep, biggest rock. Hahaha...
3) Oh, so she used the pointy part for her neck! I do recall the dark part, which I now know is the decorative piece. Yeah, maybe some kinda shell like object.
4) They got lazy or lost focus... What can I say? :P
5) So did that so often that it bothered me. It's like... Does he think that Su is some object that belongs to him only and he's the only one who can possess it, interact with it, etc.?! Yes, Jung had no hesitation getting on his knees when it came to protecting Su's girl and it was so touching to see that, considering he's not the type to beg or give in to So. But even after Su has passed, her little girl is still of utmost priority to Jung, and he's still keeping his promise to protect her and keep her out of the palace. So glad that So understand why Jung had to do that and respected Su's dying wish.
6) Haha! I'd bet the round table was like... Well, we don't really know what kinda message we wanna leave the audience... Since we can't decide, let's leave it open to interpretation! All in favour, say aye!!
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM
@Lisa: both So and Wook do that, speak of people in the possessive - remember, when Wook first warns So off Su, the exact words he uses are 'they're not yours, they're mine. Not my sister, not my wife's cousin.'
So engages in constant reinforcement of that statement because he's never had anyone who was 'his' before - he even claimed Baek-ah the same way too. It's pretty much how he claims a person's loyalty, if not the person themselves.
pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 2:57 PM
@Jamie - re #3, I mainly recognised the hairpin because we'd already seen Jung pull it out once before, when he let Soon-deok borrow it and told her it belonged to the woman he liked. Thankfully the show laid at least that much groundwork on THAT pin.
It's also rather touching in a way because as far as we know, Su never even missed that hairpin once it vanished, and probably barely registered it when it was in her own hair - but to Jung, it was the ultimate keepsake of her. And no one even notices until then.
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Jamie Opso
November 4, 2016 at 7:12 PM
*sniff* It's so sad, pogo!
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 8:14 AM
It really is! Because when So's taken even Su's mortal remains, all Jung has left is this.
(and he's also hidden her daughter away, but So doesn't know that and I doubt Baek-ah does either, in that moment).
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Channel22
November 10, 2016 at 2:32 AM
OMG thank you @Lisa and everyone else in this thread. I too had been thinking about that hair pin for a week now, I couldn't figure it out on my own. I kept asking how it became a hairpin and where did it came from, why does it have so much significance when we couldn't even trace what happened with the jade bracelet and how it ended up in Wook's possession again.
I like how the fans here are smart and good at analysis. I think this is my take away from this drama, I have learned to researched extensively and fill the story in my head through analysis and interaction with other fans. If i can't figure out one scene, all I need to do is go read the threads and for sure, there is always one fan who would come up with an interesting theory that will solve the puzzle in my head.
A week after and I'm still back reading the comments and learning new pieces for the puzzle that is this amazingly dysfunctional yet addicting drama.
wackycashew
November 4, 2016 at 9:08 PM
Funny thing is... I recognized it no proboem during the SD in cave scene. I couldn't figure it out from first watch here, so it bugged me and I kept replaying that part. Haha...
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 8:17 AM
lol I can understand - he specifically offered it to Soon-deok to pin her hair back, but in this scene it's not immediately apparent just what it is since we probably don't expect guys to carry around hairpins and he's holding it with the finial/decorative end out. Thankfully it has that distinctive shell/horn (??) design and shape, otherwise I wouldn't have recognised it either.
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Maui
November 5, 2016 at 8:07 PM
@pogo," It’s also rather touching in a way because as far as we know, Su never even missed that hairpin once it vanished, and probably barely registered it when it was in her own hair – but to Jung, it was the ultimate keepsake of her. And no one even notices until then."....I find it interesting that every Prince Su had a relationship with (Wook, So, Jung) exchanged jewelery with her....Wook a bracelet,So a Jade pin, and Jung did not give HS something but received a pin , mainly the one that marked her station at the Daminwon. A shell pin.Court Lady Oh wore a similar pin and HS followed the tradition. To Jung it represented HS's willingness to lay down her life to protect him.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 8:36 AM
good point about all three and jewellery, though as far as I remember Su didn't even offer Jung the hairpin, he just ended up keeping it after the night she threatened to stab herself with it. Which is even sadder, because
a) it wasn't even a true exchange
b) if Su had any memory of that pin and that night, it would likely have been more strongly tied to her anger at So's marriage (the unstated reason why she was so vehement in denying him access to her room 'as an unmarried woman') than the fact that she was protecting Jung - as he knows, she'd have done the same for any of the brothers.
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243 Johann
November 3, 2016 at 10:08 PM
Thanks for the recap Heads.?
Is there a special episode that Wang So & Soo will meet in the 21st century?maybe..a happy ending together?
This last episode leaves me so heartbroken.?
I cried a lot and non-stop.
I feel so sad that MLSHR has finally ended.???
and this sad & lonely feeling still lingers for days.
????
Is there a special episode that will wrap this up nicely..with a happy ending?
Same with everyone..it's hard to move on.?
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244 gael
November 3, 2016 at 10:19 PM
there's a lot of unanswered questions for this film but somehow the dots did connect.
1. why did hae soo and ha jin look alike?
- they maybe connected through ancestral bond. after all, the blood of hae soo got passed down when ha jin gave birth inside hae soo's body.
2. though wook claimed that he did not knew hae soo deeper before the peeping incident, he once said the word: "you heard it" and lightly laughed on the first episode. what does he mean by those lines?
- it seemed that he knew the real hae soo deeper than he lets it on. The real hae soo is playful and somehow "fake" since she was knew differently by the prince and by her friend chae ryung as mentioned in the first episode.
3. why was Ha jin sent in the past in the first place?
- the real hae soo and ha jin is different in every way besides the look. the reason why she was sent in the first place could be to make wang so king. after all, it is her make up who made wang so carry the rain calling task. another is that wang so wasn't interested with the politics to begin with and has only taken interest because of several factors that mostly revolved around hae soo.
4. where did the ha jin's notes go?
- if the book written by ha jin in modern language had survived, surely historians would have gone crazy for it.
5. will there be a season 2?
- HONESTLY!!!! I WANT SEASON TWO!!!!!!!!
- though wang so somehow hinted that he would do anything to find her, and that he could also somehow find a way to go to her which by the way, in the FUTURE!!! no news about the shoots for the season two has been shot. first and for most, the actor for baek ah, has his one new drama showing right now, wang jung also has his own right now. in short, I don't think season two is being shot right now which is kind off unfair!!!!!!!!
I hope someone can give me a drama that will top this one in all aspect. . . . huhuhu
I have nothing more to watch now!!!
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245 kimberlly path
November 4, 2016 at 12:29 AM
Thanks for all crew production on screen or off screen you are great and awesome This drama is very memorable for me. I love story, cast actor and actress they so bold and beautiful. i love every aspectfrom this drama moon lover is my favorite drama I never felt this deep. This drama really affect my life, changed my bedtime, messy job, every day I hear my mother mad. hahaha .... so I was slightly relieved when the drama ended. I could re-live a regular and healthy. I'm not going to complain about the end of this drama ... thank moon lovers i love you
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246 BukaXD
November 4, 2016 at 3:10 AM
I love this drama even I didnt like many things that happend. But it was still good and exciting,it made emotional rollercoaster XD
I loved the way Lee Joon Ki acts, so intense <3
And I'm proud of Iu, coz her role was very hard and she managed to play the character very well :D.
I heard that on 6 november there will be 2 special episodes, around 10-11pm.
I found the information on onetvasia.com
Hope its true :D coz for me Scarlet Heart hadn't ended I still have many questions :D
Can anyone tell why mother of Wang So hate him?
Like I know she was irritated becouse of the old king marrying one more time but hey isn't the child more important? and she wanted to kill baby Wang So?
I dont get it ;D
Still love this drama,it made me emotional XD
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247 Lemon Meringue
November 4, 2016 at 3:26 AM
Avoided posting here earlier because my emotions were too raw and I didn't want to post something I might regret later...lol
Looking back on the drama as a whole, Moon Lovers was unforgettable. Hae Soo says the opposite of love is not hate but leaving/abandonment. To paraphrase her, the opposite of a good drama is not a bad drama, but a forgettable, mediocre drama. In this respect, Moon Lovers elevated itself above the ordinary in that it was pure addictive crack in its ability to make you care for certain characters and what they would become, and compel you to keep watching, flaws and all.
Like many others, I appreciated the rich subtext that was rarely spelt out explicitly through linear narrative storytelling, but seen through the constant parallels between the different sets of characters' arcs and the rich imagery and mythology (thanks to @kumoiwa and @Barbrey) underpinning the overarching story.
Tons of things could have been executed better, but I never became indifferent as I did with many, many dramas before. I came to care for its characters and wanted to know what became of them.
I hated the ending when I first watched it, but I've come to accept it as a no-apologies, gutsy, brutal move on the show's part. Just like it showed how impossible it was for HS and GJ to stay together in the palace, the show remained consistent in not giving in to a rose-tinted, romantic treatment of the OTP's fate. We need to be content with HS's realisation of how much she loves GJ, and GJ's determination to find HS no matter what. Both love each other, just as they always did. And given the themes of reincarnation, there's a hint that they'll find their way back to each other.
Finally, this show brought me out of the depths of lurkdom and with its conclusion, has released its hold on me. Thanks Heads for the recaps and DB for giving us the space to rant, rave and rejoice. It has been great chatting with all beanies.
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Maui
November 4, 2016 at 5:37 AM
@LemonMeringue...I enjoyed your post....agree....
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Puni
November 4, 2016 at 12:14 PM
@Lemon Meringue %1000 agree -pure addictive crack in its ability to make you care for certain characters and what they would become, and compel you to keep watching, flaws and all.
Never before have I questioned and delved so deeply into a drama.
It took a bit, revisiting Ep 19 & 20 and reading so many others' perspectives, to get to a place that I can appreciate the ending. They may be living in different worlds, but they still impacted each other's lives and changed history.
Their love hasn't ended. It’s still living in the generations of children born after their daughter. (hopefully)
I wish we did get to see a glimpse of Modern So though.
#MLSHRUnforgettable
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 2:21 PM
@Lemon Meringue - I'm really glad you came out of lurkdom, the sheer amounts of thought and analysis put into the show by the commenters (I still haven't finished taking in @Barbrey's posts about the water maiden imagery and Su as an essential part of the founding myth of Korea) have been a delight to read. Though I wish the drama itself had actually made things clearer and not left it up to the viewer to fill in the gaps (assuming most average viewers are not like us nuts and will not spend hours trying to find answers).
I do think that since Goryeo is known to be a Buddhist nation and reincarnation is a central tenet of Buddhism as a faith, we're definitely being set up to believe that So will find Su in the future. I just wish the show didn't leave it so up in the air - either strand them on opposite sides of a millennium, or actually show us that So himself actually did reach Go Ha-jin's future and find his Su.
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 3:15 PM
I have to believe the director just made the wrong decision for them not to meet up. Maybe the scene they shot wasn't satisfactory, I dunno. But everything, from the OST, to the myth subtext, to the reincarnation theme, to General Park's actual words and Su's words, led directly to a meeting in the present. The message was that a time in the future would come, that So and Su helped create, where heaven and earth (sun and moon=water) would be close enough that a love like theirs could be experienced freely. No class system. A democracy. Ji Mong being a professor rather than a begger in this new world shows the changes So and Su made succeeded in bringing that time about sooner. They should therefore meet, and 'love freely'. I didn't mind the ending but I'm sorely disappointed that this is the one place in the drama that they contradicted, didn't follow through with, the subtext. The show remained amazingly true to the subtext, while destroying logical progression in the text itself, but failed even in the subtext at the last moment by not having them meet. Though I guess that they will meet is strongly implied, I'd prefer they just showed us that. Bit sick of groping around with this drama.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 3:21 PM
@Barbrey - so I guess our early speculation that Su's modern world (the one she left during the eclipse) is a slight AU from the one we know (and the one she came back to) is true?
Because the Gwangjong she knew as the killer of his brothers in the history she learned, is now remembered differently according to the history of the modern world - in that sense, I guess Su's influence ended up course-correcting history.
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 4:38 PM
Yes, I think she changed slightly the track history was taking through her influence on So and all of them. Take Su out, Wang So is more or less the psycho that kills the horse and monks. He may or may not have killed Mu, but he would have killed Yo instead of keeping the wound shallow, he would have killed Eun for the same reason as Yo did, he would have killed Jung instead of exiling him, he would - for another reason maybe - have killed Wook instead of house arrest, and he does kill Won, the only constant in both histories.
Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 4:50 PM
Contd... Gwangjong might never have heard ideas about equality, the seeds for ideas of liberty would not have been planted, he would not have freed the slaves or started the equal civil service opportunities. He would be remembered just as a bloody tyrant instead of a 'wise and good king' because of his reforms and stabilizing policies that counterbalanced that reputation.
Moreover, he would never have been reincarnated into a world where he and Su could freely love.
She literally saves him and saves the country.
Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 5:09 PM
On an imagery level, she's water and he's fire. The scene at the stone piles where his rage is uncontainable, she quenches the fire.
Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 5:16 PM
Last, reminding myself, the reason he kills Won and his two nephews in real history is because they raised rebellions against him. There was a purpose. Also, the main reasons for the purges later were against nobles rebelling against his reforms, which took power away from them. There was a purpose.
Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 5:33 PM
I mention this "purpose" because it was almost the first things she says to him, and it felt slightly "off" to me. She said he didn't do it just because he wanted to but because he was protecting himself. But he wasn't, he was protecting his mother, true, but only a psychopath would think it okay to slaughter fifty monks that way. But I think he listened and tried to live up to that.
Lol! Sorry for the spurts - just thinking out loud.
pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 7:53 AM
@Barbrey - yeah, Su's influence on history does seem to be about how she changed So, both directly and indirectly. Because So without Su would actually have been a much harsher creature, more vulnerable to the exclusion of his brothers and the rejection of his mother (which he never truly got over), and the brewing resentment would have made for an even more violent, cruel king than the one we know.
pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 3:23 PM
Also seconded on the lack of follow-through with the subtext. Of all the opportunities to miss out, they chose this? It's like they were more caught up in being different from the Chinese version than telling a coherent story.
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 5:36 PM
I actually saw the drama as more being constrained by the Chinese version and the Korean history instead of remaining true to the story they were telling in the first half. I kind of wish there had never been a Chinese version! There's a constant push and pull between the narrative lines that to me causes most of the problems in the writing, which aren't too bad but lead to problematic pacing, and then the editor made it exponentially worse.
pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 7:50 AM
you know, they never did talk about Su's awareness of potentially changing history - it's like she wants to try to change the parts she doesn't like (So-as-Gwangjong), but keep others constant (like her warding off Yo and Wook at Taejo's deathbed), and ultimately her refusal to marry So is never presented as being about the historical angle but about her realising she won't make a fit queen.
I really wish this had just been set in a fantasy world instead of being tied to actual history. Though I like the Goryeo setting, I just feel like there was way too much that ended up half-assed.
pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 8:38 AM
@Barbrey - I didn't know Won and the nephews raised rebellions against him! I just thought So was finally done with Won's snaky ass, is all.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 8:43 AM
On an imagery level, she’s water and he’s fire. The scene at the stone piles where his rage is uncontainable, she quenches the fire.
I totally get this! And it ties in to how well they complement each other but end up fundamentally incompatible/having to give up parts of their true nature (So's ambition, Su's peace-loving instincts) if they stayed together. And yet they're even more epic because of those differences.
And yeah, Su is the one who ends up saving Goryeo, quite directly (her interventions with Taejo and So) and indirectly (the philosophies she espoused re: equality and justice).
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 3:34 PM
Loved your summary. Agree with you particularly about the ending. I want to be released too but I'm still a bit in grip - a few puzzle pieces I haven't solved to my own satisfaction. I'm avoiding a rewatch because I don't want to re-obsess. Great reading all your posts, LM! Hope to see you around again.
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248 sandra
November 4, 2016 at 7:23 AM
https://www.change.org/p/sbs-make-scarlet-heart-ryeo-season-2-possible
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249 Cocobeans
November 4, 2016 at 11:05 AM
You know, this show (and ending) would have made much more sense if they had really taken the time travel a bit further with Ji mongs character.
Think about it :
He was there (homeless guy) when Go Hae Jin fell in the water ,then poof..out of nowhere an eclipse.
Same exclipse when So rode into town.
Then Jimong left and the same mometn again..poof ..eclips.
I would have made the story so that after she realised it was not a dream, present day Jimong comes to her and exlains and applologises to her. Because when his mother scarred So , she changed his future as a king (or his star as they call it). So the time lord Jimong belongs to needed someone to intervenen and mortals can only time travel back to the places their ancesters where.
So ,cosmic cosmetics girl Hae Jin get picked and transported via eclipse to the body of her ancestor Soo wha was probably on borrowed time anyway and died in that bath. While her spirit is in the past, her body in the presen tis empty (hence the coma). The things that happened over the years in Goryo took about a year in our time.
Once Soo had done her job of getting So his destiny back on track, she is transported back to her own body and time and Jimong leaves too, again via eclipse to where ever his home is.
He comes to check on Soo later on to see if she rememebrs (a rare trait among time travel victims and possible indicztion she might be of the same race a Jimong, just throwing that in in hopes of future spinnoff)and then appologises for causing her the heartbreak but things had to happen that way for So to reclaims his star destiny as king.
Go Hae Jin : "yes but, odd looking moon eclipse guy! will i ever see him again"
Choi Ji Mong : "aaaah, only time will tell, If things are meant to be.."
Tadaaaaaaa...there, ..see ending, totally explained in a satisfying way.
*i might have watched a bit too much Dr Who* * scurries off to a corner with her fellow nerds.*
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 1:11 PM
Ji Mong is interesting. This story was about many star-crossed, reincarnated lovers who contribute to history. Taejo and Oh - founders of the nation, So and Su - secondary founders who stabilize it for the generations to come, Baek Ah and Woo Hee/little girl - begin the direct line of kings, Eun and Soon Deok - interestingly might be close to final reincarnation, the bear woman trope ties Soon Deok into the Korean creation myth, Wook and Lady Hae who somehow miss each other this time around, even Won and Chae Ryung at ground zero. I wish I could make better sense of Ji Mong's last words to So, because I think we might have another case of star-crossed lovers, Ji Mong and Mu. Su did have a purpose in coming back, to change Korea and redeem So. Why was Ji Mong there - the implication is that he travelled back to save Mu and change Korea too. Which he definitely did change because Taejo wouldn't have started Goryeo without him. But was he only able to go back because of his love for Mu? I almost expected to see Ji Mong and Mu walk away from that exhibition together, now in a time where gay rights allowed them to be together! Oh my imagination!
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 2:23 PM
@Barbrey - omw that is a great point about star-crossed lovers providing the foundation of Goryeo and continuing it (though ewwwwww @the hints about Baek-ah and the kid, she's just one level up from a toddler). I suppose the message is that the nation demands that sacrifice, and that history makes it worthwhile?
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 2:56 PM
Yeah I like that last line!
I never got the creeps from the Baek Ah, little girl thing. We already know the norm culturally includes incest in the royal family so that wasn't a thing for me, particularly with So already married to his sister and niece. I saw no attraction of Baek Ah to the girl, just curiosity - it's not like they set him up to be a pedophile, she'll be growing up before they get together. For me, it was planting a few seeds for the audience about the future of Goryeo, and emphasizing the reincarnation theme. Nothing creepy about it.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 3:16 PM
you know, all the same, I wish they'd at least used an older (at least teenage) kid for that part. I can live with the incest (I cannot believe I just typed that sentence out) but the kid thing is what makes me raise my eyebrows.
Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 3:36 PM
They couldn't make her older though because she could only be born after Woo Hee died.
pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 4, 2016 at 4:26 PM
fair enough, since they really seem to be going for the reincarnation angle there.
250 jui
November 4, 2016 at 6:30 PM
I love this drama with its flawless
the picture of goryeo in the last part was so beautiful but but but it's a bit nonsense, who is the one drawing all exhibition pictures of goryeo? was it baek ah, jimong, or the cameraman? because we knew it was from most scenes we watched before, they need to put a picture that someone belonging to which is more realistic, did jimong or baek ah there when hae soo with wook on the snow, or when they are celebrated wang eun birthday, or when gwangjong sitting alone, or etc.. maybe the cameraman followed go ha jin back to goryeo..
after this show ended i couldn't make my step to move on, maybe i need a month to get my life back T_T
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Barbrey
November 4, 2016 at 6:40 PM
The best explanation for this was posted somewhere on here - I can't remember the poster. Remember when Baek Ah says to So at the end that he has made the last of his visits (he's just come back from visiting Wook with news of his dying). The commentator said that this was Baek Ah visiting people who had known Su and commemorating their memories of her with his paintings, as commissioned by So. Once again, drama, big Fail for not explaining that if so, but it does make the most sense.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 7:39 AM
I can't believe this drama was so damn lazy when a single sentence would have explained away multiple continuity gaps/logic fails (the return of Wook's bracelet, Su getting So's love token hairpin back for her to wear, and now this). I mean, there's reading subtext and then there's being forced to search for any shreds of logic.
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Barbrey
November 6, 2016 at 9:16 AM
Yep, couldnt agree more. And these are just the most obvious blunders. There seem to be at least half a dozen an episode.
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pogo - now sailing HMS Queen of Tears with Corn Salad on deck🍉
November 6, 2016 at 9:25 AM
I mentioned it on the next page but a major one was the reason why Jung hid Su's handwriting for being identical to So's - without the knowledge that imitating the king's handwriting was treason (as it apparently was in BBJX), it just comes across as Jung being jealous or petty, which is completely at odds with his behaviour to Su following their marriage. When in fact he was just trying to not get them killed!
Seriously, would it have killed them to TELL US STUFF?