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Beans of Wisdom: When dramas reflect life

This week in Beans of Wisdom…

Callie concludes at the end of a sandwich thread in comment #3.4.4.1 of “Desperation among the stranded in Missing 9”:

The subway jokes have outnumbered the actual subway PPL. We have become a parody of ourselves 0_0

 

In “The Lonely Shining Goblin: Episode 3,” cinnamon says of cheerful Eun-tak in comment #53.1:

I once knew someone who led a hard life. She lost her father and lived with her mother along with her 6 siblings. They fought against the poverty to get a better education and life. She ‘trained’ herself to be confident, but most people who had just met her hated her. They thought she was a bit too confident. What kind of life would she feel if she had nothing? So that’s why I can relate this Eun Tak for being cheery. Are we supposed to have all-gloomy heroine with difficult life and then saved by a hero? I think I like it better: “Yeah, you may lead such a pitiful fate but you can save a soul too…you sweep the cloud with the sunny you.”

 

In “The Lonely Shining Goblin: Episode 4” comment #1.2.4.2, Kiara writes:

Let’s talk about issues when she summons him while he is taking a shower.

Moment:

*gets candles*

fay:

LOL. Goblin might get more hyper if that idea got to his head. He might never go to shower again.

Kiara:

Then that underwear song would make sense lol.

 

Sylvia talks art in #1.2.6.2:

[I]n the European arts and literary tradition, the young maiden has always been paired with ancient death. Part of it is the piercing provocation of the juxtaposition, as nothing seems to symbolize the full bloom of youth and beauty as a girl-woman. In the Divine Comedy, Dante’s childhood love Beatrice is the one guiding him to heaven. The composer Schubert, suffering a nervous breakdown after realizing he going to die young, wrote a string quartet named “Death and the Maiden”. Momento Mori images throughout the ages frequently pair maidens with skeletons and skulls, like Georges de la Tour’s ‘Magdalene with the Smoking Flame’ and this interesting 18th c German thing:

(img link)

Of course all of the above were created by Old White Men, so figures that they’d want their thoughts of death tempered by sweet young maidens lmao.

But at least from Shin/the Goblin’s perspective, it’s poetic in this ‘momento mori’ way that the literal hand of death comes in the form of young, lovely, spring-in-her-steps Eun Tak. It’s like she’s his Beatrice– that representation of ‘spring’ in his winter years, the divine, and ultimate oblivion.

Danielle B.:

I love this! That’s so true about the juxtaposition of young and old in myth and how Death is normally portrayed.

This is an interesting comparison, like I wonder how Korean folklore interacts with those comparisons.

Dokkaebi are supposed to be inanimate objects, not people though, so I wonder if there’s something special about this? Also I wonder if that plays into Eun-Tak’s attitude toward the whole thing too. She’s still very light-hearted about it, probably because she sees him as not serious?

 

In comment #8, Haydn confesses:

i wish someone would look at me the way Gong Yoo looks at Eun Tak… or the way Deok Hwa looks whenever his grandpa mentions his credit card. XD

 

While van shares a fear in #15.3:

i don’t mean to take away from the beautiful scene, but was it just me that was so glad she didn’t get run over and that she crossed the street safely and made it over to the other side in one piece? omg, i think i held my breath that whole time and it didn’t help that they slo mo-ed it!

Bips99:

Me too …. Me too …. Me too….. I kept waiting for the truck of doom … And I was like goblin! Stop being poetic … Focus … She is going to get run over … You need to be alert ..

Sylvia:

When she started hopping back into the intersection I did an internal scream and thought “omg u dumb child now Goblin the Guardian will have to slice another car to keep you from getting killed.”

But thankfully the maple country is a peaceful nation with fewer drivers of manslaughter bent.

JISG:

lol I knew she was going to be fine because they were in Canada. Random cars aiming for the lone predestinarian on an empty road only happens in Korea lol

Seriously, when they jaywalk/run walk across highways they always make it, yet they always get run over when crossing COMPLETELY EMPTY STREETS!! Why?!??

Leenie:

I think Canada is constitutionally incapable of having a Truck-of-Doom. They’re entirely too nice. Even their cars are nice.

View the full convo here to get catharsis from your fear of kdrama-crossings.

 

Helena shares a similar story in #128:

Just because something is unconventional does not mean it’s wrong contrary to what many are thinking. There is plentiful evidence the kind of relationships they object to works in real life for many.

I keep seeing talk about emotional levels needing to match for a relationship to work. I would like to point out that it is not necessarily true. Emotional levels compatibility is what is needed.

Someone mature might find “immaturity” fresh and attractive. Not for everyone, but for some. Someone “immature” might find maturity something worth admiring and respecting.

And I speak witnessing a real-life scenario where the husband and wife complimented each other as such. She makes up for what his nature can’t do as a quiet thoughtful man (in academia if this gives any indication), and he’s the only one capable to handle her volatile personality with calm and patience and most of all, with love. It’s quite beautiful, really. He indulges her, and she feels love and loves in return. She brings into his life things he never would have experienced otherwise with his nature. And she takes care of their 3 children and raised them to be social in a way he would have been incapable of doing. They are now grown adults, and the sister is my close friend.
All of them have grown into adults I respect, and anyone would respect (polite, intelligent (engineer, dentist, doctor intern), mature) and they admit readily even though they inherited their brains from their father, they learned how to live life properly from their mother. Their mother is not someone easy to handle because of her mood swings, but she brought so much to the family. It’s why her husband fell in love with her, and still loves her. Anw, I wasn’t intending to write so much, so I’ll stop before I start spilling out someone else’s entire life story. Pfft.

Please just know that what doesn’t work for you can work for others and give them a happy life.

fay adds:

@Helena Rightly said. I do think not all eighteen year old are like eun tak, but there are many like her, so people who’re saying I am same age as her, but I don’t behave that way. Well yes, you may not, because you are not her, and it won’t be possible that every eighteen years old behave in the same way, but they do exist..those like eun tak, cheerful, feisty and still strong enough and resilient. So, stop putting them in your shoes, and vice versa.

 

While in “Legend of the Blue Sea: Episode 9,” silentbeluga writes praise for actors in comment #15:

My God, Lee Min Ho, you are good at the crying, you are. I just love it when an actor is able to really build up to a moment of overwhelming emotion and then let it out in the open. Vulnerability is such a hard thing, isn’t it? We’re always told not to cry, not to show our weaknesses, not to fall apart in front of others and once we grow up, it’s so difficult to open up again and to be that fragile again. We spend our entire life learning how to build walls and tearing them down is always such a daunting task. Am I being judged? What is they turn away from me? What if they don’t like me if I’m not at my best? So much time spend trying to hide or control how we feel, swallowing it down and keeping it in check. And the fact that good actors can tap into that messy interior pool of human rawness and share it with the world will never cease to amaze me.

 

Lessa shares more insights into a doctor’s life in comment #3 of “Romantic Doctor Teacher Kim: Episode 11”:

I read somewhere in another site’s comments about how shallow/wishy/washy DJ is as a doctor, (to be possibly tempted by money) but I think its very realistic (& part of his character growth). We study 3-4 years in college, 4 years of medschool, 1 year internship (in some countries, the internship is counted as the first year of residency), 3-6 years of residency (depends), 2-3 years of subspecialty training, …add school loans, hospital stocks &, setting up your private practice. I mean its like one day I was in highschool then I woke up, & suddenly I’m thirty. And thats me who had (relatively) financially capable parents. (Im no In Bum)… DJ’s mom makes mandoo. Im not saying being poor is an excuse to be morally corrupt. Just sayin’, he’s had it hard, its okay to have this sort of dillema. And Im glad he’s at Doldam to continues his never ending medical education.

Michykdrama adds:

And not many people know that our school fees are one of the highest compared to other university school fees, and that our pay as a fresh graduate while we are doing our “internship” year is quite pitiful. (or at least in my country it is) It does go up after the first year but the first year is also the toughest year. In fact my relative who graduated from Law at the same time as me was earning a lot more than me during her first year!

Ironic considering medicine literally involves life and death. But it’s also complicated by the fact that medicine is somewhat considered to be a vocation, and this idea that the noblest medical professionals do it without thought for any financial gain.

Unfortunately doctors also are human, we haven’t learnt how to photosynthesize yet, and even if we did, we often (at least at the start) don’t see the sun enough since we work from predawn till dusk anyway. Haha.

So yeah, DJ’s struggle is real. My 2 cents ?

Lessa:

The first time I got my hospital stipend as a resident, I was so proud I would not be asking for money that month. ….then before the month even ended I went home to get groceries I could eat at the dorm. ???? LOL #thestruggleisReaL

 

starswillshine shares her story and wishes for a Joon-hyung in “Team Dramabeans: What we’re watching” comment #26:

I just love how Joon Hyung loves Bok Joo for who she is instead of her appearance. He just wants Bok Joo to be happy. Look at him feeding Bok Joo with all the food. Bok Joo does not care about how she is like to Joon Hyung because she is still treating Joon Hyung as a friend. And I appreciated that. Instead of falling heads over heels for Joon Hyung and changes herself to be a socially acceptable female, she is at ease of being herself with Joon Hyung. When she finally realises that she’s in love with Joon Hyung, she will still be herself, and this is important.

Over the years, I have heard comments about my weight (I’m overweight, not even obese). “OMG, you must be able to eat a lot.” “Don’t worry, she can finish all the food!” “These are very high in calories, I’m not eating them, can you help me to eat them?” These comments have caused me to stress over ordering and eating food when I am with acquaintances (not even romantic crushes). If I go for buffet, I will only go for one serving (which defies the purpose of a buffet!). I will not finish my food too. I will not order anything fried. I will try to finish my food very slowly. I know I should not be caring about the societal standards but it’s impossible for me to ignore. Therefore, I want to meet someone whom I can order and eat food comfortably. And this explains why I am so jealous that Bok Joo can eat whatever she wants with Joon Hyung.

 

inxomnia raises a question in “Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-ju: Episode 9” comment #1.4:

This is something I’ve felt before watching other dramas based on real women… I wonder how much of the romance depicted is true, especially when it explores the notion of their uniqueness or ‘difference’ impacting their love life. Is the romance fiction? Don’t get me wrong, I love everything about the romance between Bok Joo and Joon Hyung. But a small part of me wonders whether a love interest is always necessary in a female-centric drama. It seems like there are dramas that a male-centric can do away with a main romance but a lot heroines are defined by her love life. It’s almost as if having someone who loves her is a form of validation. I guess it just reminds of me of 1 Litre of Tears a little where I know that the story was based on Aya’s life and her struggle with her illness, however the romance which became a core part of the drama was entirely fictional. It makes me question whether it is necessary and whether there is a belief that a woman’s journey is not compelling enough without a central romance? However, in being totally hypocritical, I really enjoyed the romance there and here so I understand why the romance is added because it does sell no doubt. I just kind of hope there will be a drama that dares to tell the story of a woman who can exist without romance because I really do wonder how that’d be depicted.

ashablue:

I would usually agree with you, but for this drama, the romance is actually pivotal in how the main character sees herself. She feels unlovable, and unfeminine. Things that most women want to be and what are widely expected of women to be. And how you perceive yourself and your physical attractiveness can also be related to romantic issues. Especially for Bok Joo who is still growing up and this is her major first crush. Obviously she has this preconceived notion that only if she is feminine that she can be loved. So it works well in this story. And the guy is honestly too cute lol

deltadragon23:

I agree wiith you @ashablue. The romance is necessary for the drama–a large theme being emphasized in the show is that true love is one where your partner knows who are you as a person – your strengths, your quirks, and even your flaws – and loves you because of or in spite of those things. And that message can only be communicated through telling a romantic story.

Another thing I want to touch on is how it seems that in today’s society, there are those who believe that shows that don’t depict a woman’s romantic love life are more progressively feminist than those that do. While I would love to see the entertainment industry tackle stories with female protagonists that do not have any love interests whatsoever, I also hope that that story line does not become the norm. I want to see diversity. Amazing female protagonists who are divorced, widowed, never married, single AF, happily married. I want to see the entire gamut.

I enjoy Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-Joo because it is portraying a role model female protagonist who is not just an amazing athlete but also a warm and caring daughter and friend who experiences problems that all young adults experience, not just professional weightlifters, including feelings of attraction for the first time. I personally do not define Kim Bok Joo based on her romantic life. I see it as one identifying part of herself, among many.

I also want to clarify that romantic love and feminist ideals are not mutually exclusive ideas. I think it’s important to remember that women can be strong, intelligent, and resilient individuals not only while single, but also while in a relationship and/or in love.

On another note, I also agree that one of the things that is hindering her self-development is believing that she is “unfeminine” and therefore unworthy of being loved. I truly hope that in the end, Bok Joo will learn that “femininity” and “masculinity” are only social constructs and that she can be “feminine” simply by the virtue of being female. I want more than anything for Bok Joo to understand that weightlifting is “feminine” because it is something that she, a female, is doing, and that her passion for it is not only impressive and admirable, it’s part of what makes her so goddamn beautiful.

 

And Ade asks another in #20:

If anyone can explain..What i dont understand is the part about her body being unattractive, her belly sticking out and all.. i mean yeah i know she eats alot and she weighs more than the average girl.. but she works out alot.. i suppose i just feel like the extra food would be in form of muscle on her body instead of fat since she excerises and lifts and all. I mean is she not supposed to be physically fit?? How can she have a flabby stomach .. Am truly confused

And looking at the other team members.. its asif the show is trying to say that weightlifters are overweight and chubby.. I just dont get the sterotype.. shouldn’t they be fit

striving8:

Its actually psychological. It has a lot to do with gender roles and how a particular gender is perceived by the society. Women through time have had to live up to a certain expectation of grace and femininity. Weightlifting has often been perceived as masculine sport so playing a sport that requires certain masculine attributes. Thus while she is focusing on weightlifting she would move away from the expected feminine values meaning that wouldn’t exactly live up to the societal image, e.g. she wouldn’t be thin, she would have muscles, she wouldn’t be dainty and tiny and she would eat a lot. That is why Kim Bok Joo while she is actually weightlifting wouldn’t exactly feel feminine and whatever she said only builds on that.

Miranda:

Think of speedskaters. Their thighs are absolutely massive and it’s pure muscle, but female attractiveness doesn’t value that sort of shape – curvy, sure, but not hard-as-rock professional muscle. Gymnasts who are stocky rather than balletic have the same hangups.

Female attractiveness, as socially understood, tends towards willowy and graceful. Dancers, etc. All women (but teenage girls especially) are sensitive to anything about them that deviates from this standard. Even though Bok Joo tensing her abdomen to lift weight is minimal, she’s right, it will press her lycra’d stomach against the weightlifting belt and LOOK like a bulge. That’s the exact opposite of what women aim for, and also the entire marketing model behind Spanx.

Bok Joo’s not unusual here, at all. Sadly.

Dramaninja:

Sadly, fit is not the same as attractive in many cultures. Though recently there has been a rise in fitness enthusiasts, resulting in promotion of the notion that fit is attractive (Thank God), in reality slender females are considered the best looking. In fact in my country many fit and muscular girls would wear loose clothes just to hide their built and not be seen as ‘manly’.
D
ifferent sports require different levels of fitness and specific target areas are there to improve their efficiency in sport. (From my personal observation) Swimmers generally tend to have broader sholders, Cyclists and many athletes have wider and extremely built thighs, Footballers generally have strong stout calves, etc. People tend to make fun of these things and put them down. For eg. Serena Williams is one of the(if not THE) best Tennis players in the world, but people keep criticising her for her (magnificent)body and built. Some mean ppl even go so far as to say that she should play mens tennis instead(-.-)!

Cocobeans answers with her experience as a young athlete:

Actually, i can relate to that, when i was young (i’m an ahjumma now) i used to be a kickboxer /MMA fighter.
From age 12 till 21 and this was in the days before Rhonda Rhousey and the female action hero’s like Jeniffer Lawrence and scarlet Johanssen.
It made things very hard on my mom sometimes because i would often be covered in bruises and scrapes and people thought at first she abused me.
Training (being the only girl) was hard if you have to spar with guys older then you, soaking in sweat, my head beet red, it was NOT pretty. Neither where fights, i told my family not to come, even if its just untill you tap off or the referee calls it, a headlock or armbar still hurts, getting a kick in the head..ouch! Not a lot of people want to see their loved ones suffer like that.
Men first think its exciting then get scared or they think you’re a lesbian because “no normal woman does that” so dating was hard and going to a higher weightclass in such short notice!! it’s maddness! its very hard on the liver and kidneys you know to bulk up that fast. I understand her completely, i’m just glad that these days, being a female weightlifter,boxer,MMA fighter is not that unusuall anymore although we still get some jabs like “ugly lesbo, ooh she must do that because she wants to be a guy,..” trust me, it is not easy.I started training again and even these days, poeple are still hard on woman who do sports that are considered men sports.

 

In “Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-ju: Episode 10,” wow writes some difficult advice for our heroine in #26.1:

In real life regardless how much of a person is nice they are still more complex then you could see in dramas or imagine. If they are nice but not perceptive like JY then they will only understand when you talk to them openly or they might be nice because they are thinking that’s what expected from them in that case anything can be solved as long as it’s addressed.

For Bok Joo I think everyone expects her to remain strong. This is why she needed lies and now feels lonely even if you keep her telling how strong she is that’s not what she needs it might burden her more because she thinks she is not herself when she is weak. She should have allowed herself to feel embarrassed and sad. Everyone is like that after all well it’s easier said than done tho TT

 

While HerImperialMaj draws parallels with another literary work in comment #31:

“… too much consideration can be hurtful.”

In Cat’s Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut, there was this one female character who was renowned for being incredibly kind and caring to everyone, from the top politicians to the lowliest street orphan. The main character wound up married to her (no, this was not a Kdrama, and they did not fall in love), and he observed that her universal kindness might be a genuine love for everyone, or it might be her own brand of frigidity – that maybe she applied equal love to everyone because she didn’t have especial love for any one person.

People like Jae-yi can feel like that. The people around love how kind he always is to them … until they notice that he treats every random stranger just as well. It’s not selfish to want your loved one to give you special treatment, because that’s acknowledging that you are special to them.

If extreme kindness is his M.O. and he doesn’t deviate from it, then those who don’t know him well would naturally perceive a closer relationship with him than he’s interested in, while those who actually are close to him and have observed him over a long period of time start to doubt that they have any real meaning to him. That’s how a relative stranger Bok-ju can read so much into his interactions, while those close to him, like Joon-hyung and Dr. Go, are never sure where they stand.

 

Candy shares her side in comment #34:

I’ve had 3 major quarrels where I was yelled at for being too nice. I never understood what they meant and they never clarified either. Now that I’ve seen the analysis of Jae-yi’s behaviour I think I know where they came from. I thought about my own behavior and realised that I had been walking on eggshells around them while trying to be “considerate”. I used to be the kid who was socially awkward and blunt with people so after repeated blunders I decided to be extra-careful and overly nice so as to not offend anyone. Which probably felt off-putting to the next set of people I interacted with. What do I do now??

Peeps:

Be yourself.

I understand how you feel, because I’ve been through that too. Too scared to offend, to scared to truly open up.

But real, active social life only starts when you allow yourself to be vulnerable and allow yourself to take a few hits. When you open up and let people know the true you, will people then feel like they can trust you and really befriend you. When you hide behind a sheen of niceness, they don’t know what you’re really thinking and that scares them, because for all they know, you could be hating them and who likes a “friend” who hates them?

Don’t worry about offending others. Because you can and will always make up with those who really care about you. You’ll want to and they’ll let you.

Those who don’t care, well, you don’t need them anyways.

SHIN:

My best friend experienced the same thing as you and she is now like the kindest and nicest person ever. It’s like a trauma, she is kind of scared people hating her. We used to cold her too for being too nice, that’s because sometimes it’s self-destructive, like too much sacrificing yourself for people who aren’t even worth it. It’s not bad to be nice, but it’s not nice to be nice while sacrificing yourself or burdening yourself. Just learn how to say ‘no’ nicely.
I can relate to what JH said, being too nice made distance, because honestly yes, I am nice to people I am not close too, the polite nice kind, while with people I am very close too, I am being an evil-nice kind (nice at some times but mostly evil, if you know what I mean hehe). I was also very blunt before but now I have learned to control it by being polite-blunt to avoid hurting people’s feelings.
So, I don’t know you’re being nice because the same reason as my friend or because you still have distance with those people you’re nice at, but I believe people scold you for being too nice because they care. Maybe they are worried you hurt or sacrifice yourself for being too nice, or maybe they are worried you’re seen as being fake, or maybe they’re worried you feel obligated to be nice only because of your past. It’s not I am saying being nice is a sin or what, being nice is like a neccessity to be a human, but that’s the only reason to be nice, because we’re human, we’re supposed to be nice to each other, not because of some other reasons.

Sorry if you feel I’m lecturing you or anything, I didn’t mean that. it’s just i feel i can relate so much with your problem and i’ve seen and experienced similar situation, so i can’t help but to reply your comment.

Wish the best for you, I hope you can solve your problems fast and wisely ?

sharreb:

I hope you mind moderation.
It is good to stop, be thoughtful and be kind to others.
But it’s also important to love yourself, to not be push over.
I like to think in socialising or whatever word banter, choose which ones are important to you. Stand your ground or speak your mind on whats important. Things or people who are not important instead of speaking i give a smile and turn away.

 

Thank you for the wonderful comments and for being there for each other, beanies.

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@Goblin
Thing is.. there is something inherently romantic about this sadist romance..

where the hero lives on and on.. is incredibly lonely... and well you turn out to be his first, only, never changing, passionate love..

Not sure what really sells such stories
1. That he will never waver
2. That he is truly perfect in all sense - they are never poor, or not well read, or neurotic personalities, or bad at action, or bad at cooking, or dancing, or sports, or painting, or singing
3. You literally are everything / their life..

I am honestly amazed.. how being in world full of such stories in all medium of interactions.. hasn't / doesn't screw women's (specially while growing up) thinking to develop these impossible notions of what a man should be like...

:)

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and then the contrary in WLF,

Are there men out there .. to fall for a fat woman, a not so pretty woman, woman with abs and biceps..

Its really nice... the way this story is being told.. and makes it believable...

And this inferiority / self critical analysis BJ is goign through.. such a real person..

1st love.. 1st rejections are horrible to handle.. and personally I find this "let's be friends", " or outright sweet rejections as JY.. are more painful.. i'd rather have a clean cut.. lets minimize interaction..

less interaction, more space, with time heals..
usual interaction creates more confusion or self loathing

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" are there men out there...to fall for a fat woman"

Yes. I've come across examples of it myself, with some surprising ones such as the man is thin and good looking, because it gives rise to the question that he can have his pick of partners so why choose a fat one?

So the lesson here may be that first impressions on the lady being fat may count, but once you get to know and love the person she is, it doesn't matter anymore.

Of course the challenge lies in overcoming the first impression given by the fat woman, given that men are more superficial, but that's reinforcing another stereotype isn't it?

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@lc, your points are well taken. It is reinforcing another stereotype, and one that deserves calling out. However, I'm a joker who will just take this chance to make it even worse and share an expression that this conversation brings to mind:
"Imagine a world with no men - lots of fat, happy women and no war"
✌?️

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@ bbstl, ooh agree that the world will be a better place without men haha. But definitely less interesting, heh?

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I know that notion goes both ways but lately the world news is making me feel it more and more from the female side ? I for one am overloaded with 'interesting' right now!

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let me throw in another stereotype..

Women in one room/planet and no war? :P

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Is this where I'm supposed to add something about back-stabbing and hair-pulling? Blech.

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... not to mention how she must look and behave to appeal to such a man. ?

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I'm curious about something...

Who is this wonderful "DB Staff" who compiles all this stuff? I can't imagine how much time it takes to read all comments and then compile them week after week. :O Or is it not one person, but DB writers taking turn one week at a time? Or just each authors reading their own posts' comments?

If it's just one person, slow clap.

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second that

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I'm imagining everyone takes part in it using a separate chat box. But really awesome job!

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I always assumed that DB Staff was usually mary. Because she didn't like writing Beans of Wisdom under her own name because occasionally she'd quote herself and found it awkward or something. But then other writers would occasionally used the DB Staff name if necessary. I don't know for sure though, just assuming and reading between some very broad lines haha. But whoever you are, DB Staff, thanks for the hard work!

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I've wondered the same too :) One person or many, they have my eternal love...

Thank you, DB Staff, for wading through thousands of comments each week and summarizing these discussions!

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+ 10000 :)

It must be such a daunting task and yet it's done weekly! Standing ovation from here, DB Staff!

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I kind of think recapper of each episode is responsible to submit her favorite comments from that specific episode but of course anyone of the recappers can also submit any favorite comment from any episode.

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LOL. So many different speculations. I guess Beanies have all been curious.

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This thread made me LOL ^___^

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On every forum, the age issue with Goblin does not die..
And here's what I dont understand..

Q: Is 19 a legal age in your country
A: NO
Me: Then I completely understand if you have issues with romance, but i do hope that your country doesn't support any kind of romance for people who have not come off age.. because either you have a problem with a 19 yr old romancing.. or a 30+ yr old interacting with 19 yr old (At any level)

Q: is 19 a legal age in your country
A: Yes
Me: Then what is your problem? Was it on someone's whim and fancy that a legal age was set up? Or have they proved it that all interactions with an age gap of more than XXX years are cases of pedophilia?
A: My freedom to have an opinion
Me: A opinion is something that has some logic to it. This is just dogmatic approach.. and it is cringeworthy.. where you think that you are qualified to judge others, their relationship and look down upon other's mental capabilities..

Q: Are all 30+ people pervy around you?
Q: Do you consider only a real physical relatioship with a younger person cringeworthy or even the thoughts of such relationship?
Q: Do you feel horrible about yourself when you crush on an actor far younger than you?
Q: What is a good age gap for a relationship to be normal?

Q: Are women who are career driven , vile loathsome women? Well because natural order is to reproduce babies and take care of them.. so deviating from the usual makes them horrible? ( WELL .. then why is age gap in a relationship bad just because its not common?)

Q: Who should a 19 yr old be dating?
A: XX age
Q: Wait a minute! Why should she be allowed to date at all.. if she is immature and not capable of making such emotional decisions?

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Any relationship with a 19 yo and 30+ year old man, regardless of the "legality" of it, is going to have a dramatic power imbalance. That is only exacerbated by the fact that he is an immortal, 900 year old being. A 19 yo dating another 19 yo or someone in their early 20s, would not have this issue.

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@Zella - I get your point about a power imbalance being likely in such a scenario.

But just to play devil's advocate here - there is the exact same power imbalance between a 19 year old and her (likely) 40yo+ parents.
We are comfortable with this age gap because we assume that her parents have her best interests in mind, and truly cherish, love and care for her.
One could be pedantic and argue that Goblin and Euntak's relationship, or another age-imbalanced relationship, is just as nurturing and caring and therefore not particularly cringeworthy.

For me personally this does very much look like an ajusshi-highschooler romance dressed up as a fantasy, and there will always be that niggling anxiety in my heart (just like I feel every.single.time any character crosses a busy road, lol). However it is offset by how healthy this relationship actually is. It's not so hard for me to connect with these characters as humans with feelings, at which point I forget to be worried about a possible power-imbalance.

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Ummmm, are you really trying to say that the fact that their relationship is similar to a parental/child relationship is a good thing??? When they're supposed to be together in a romantic context? That makes his attraction to her even creepier.

A power imbalance between a parent and a child vs two people in a romantic/sexual relationship are VERY different.

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The caring part..
even in same age, you will find the woman fussing over the man as if he is a kid..

I think what Moment probably meant was that people tend to jump to conclusions that in large age gap relationships, older partner doesnot can not have genuine goodwill for the younger partner.. and hence find it cringeworthy..

i don't know.. given @18 a woman is medically fit to start a family... the more I see high schoolers.. they are not idiots.. they are so much better than the generation before ..
and who is to say a fellow class mate won't be a horrible partner ( or power imbalance.. what if he is a heartthrob and you are the kind to be insecured..you would always be giving in...)

It really is a case to case basis thing.. isn't it..
Here, in particular.. yes it has started as dependency/need for company in one's case and infatuation to love in another case because he has never really been in a company of a girl..

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@Zella I'm acknowledging that their age difference and power imbalance is in the same category as a parent-child relationship, I'm not saying it's a good thing. Just trying to break down what makes it creepy, or not.

In terms of the power-imbalance alone, they're actually pretty similar. The older person in both relationships usually has:
A. Control over material possessions : the money, the house, the car, the power to buy clothes and food, etc.

B. Control (to some extent) over emotional aspects : More confidence in themselves, more experience in life, possibly more ways of getting the younger person to follow rules that they set.

But he is not her father, she is not his child (and I'm ignoring her very silly 'adopt me' that she threw out in the 1st/2nd episode).

With any romantic and sexual relationship, one party having so much control over the other is obviously not ok, and they'll have to figure out how to bring some balance and agency there.

My point is - as long as they (or any old-young couple) figure this out, and neither one misuses or manipulates the other, the relationship is not really creepy anymore. They're just two people, like any other couple, who fall in love and have to navigate their relationship together.

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Isn't power imbalance a case of personality + means..

While the 30+ may have the means to make the other dependent on him/her ... the power shift for the negative would happen only in cases where one personality is the subservient/weak kind..

otheriwse no matter what, the power imbalance won't be there..
If its a strong minded younger partner and a calm mature older one..

Extrovert younger, introvert older

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His age, gender, social status, wealth, and "supernatural" advantages all place him in a position superior to her. Even if he does his best to not "enforce" that superiority, it will always inform their relationship.

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You're right on each one of these counts - these issues don't really go away just because they're in love.

If one partner comes from a wealthier background than the other, it's not something they can blissfully forget about - it's something they have to work hard at to be sensitive and not misuse it to have control or to hurt the other.
It's the same for couples with different educational, cultural or ethnic backgrounds as well.

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@Moment

Exactly. Power imbalance is only a problem when the one with the power has no respect and self-restraint to abuse that power. Besides, in relationships, the power can be shared so that both people uses that power, right? It is a team effort. You don't throw out your teammate just because they are weaker than you. Why? Because you have affection for them, and that affection is source of strength and power for you too. :D You don't suddenly lose your affection for your family because they became poorer or weaker or something right? Why? Because you love them.

Talking about power imbalance in love should also take into account their love for each other. When you get "power" as in wealth, experience, maturity, etc., both of the people get to use that "power." And if you know anything about relationships, you know that the one who uses that "power" the most... or in other words, the one who takes control of the relationship and makes the decisions, is not always the one "providing" the power... hehehe. :D

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Well put, @Hanilulu <3 :)

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Basically what they said. Thumbs up. :))))

RE: teammates. Not only are they a source of your strength, but you keep them because you work best with them. They might not be the "best players" but they're the ones you work best with.

RE: power imbalance. In theory, that all sounds plausible that the one who has the more power will be the oppressive one. In practice, it doesn't matter. It's the one with the emotional upper edge. It doesn't matter if you're older, richer, or more educated, or whatnot. You might have the potential "theoretical" power, but in practice, you can still be the one being "controlled." This is love we're talking about.

For age, go to Comment 18 on last week's Beans of Wisdom. Loads of people have the experience of older men-younger women relationships being in favor of the younger women in practice. XD

http://www.dramabeans.com/2016/12/beans-of-wisdom-sad-pearls-and-charming-tricksters/#comment-2601929

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@joy today
cudn't quote you but totally agree with the emotional maturity/strength point

that is exactly what i was driving at..

a woman may have all the means in the relationship but she can be the non influential one with a younger man.. or vice versa..

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Since the Goblin's 900+, this entire conversation goes over into Twilight territory rather than legal territory. But even with the 19/35 split, it really does depend which culture you come from. Some cultures have bright lines that chop up life stages - high school/college/young adult/adult. Others really only split it into high school/adult. And that matters a lot both in how you view relationships with large age gaps, and in how the power balance works within the relationship.

If you've been raised in a culture where 19 is "adult" and you're fully empowered to be in a relationship with anyone decades older than you, the power dynamic is genuinely different than someone who doubts herself or has internalized that that sort of age gap is "wrong". And I say that as someone who started in a culture where the age gap's a big deal, but have gradually figured out they're more like guidelines than rules.

The power balance really depends on the individuals involved. A 20 year old and a 34 year old might seem to be perfectly matched when you meet them, while two 25 year olds set off alarm bells. Generally, age gaps are something to be a little wary and skeptical of, but the only way to know is to consider the two individuals involved.

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@Miranda, I agree on you, that power balance really depends on the individuals involved.
Can I make a comparisson between Bella and Eun Tak?

Bella and Eun Tak are both in HS when they met Edward and Shin.

Bella is described as more mature than her age, she's more on the introvert side, keeping herself to her books, and prefers to be out of the spotlight
Euntak is cheery, she finds joy in the small things, and I'd like to think she's a loner at school too because of classmate bullies and I guess she doesn't like the spotlight as well.

Bella has a problem with grand things, she hates it when Edward bought her a car, even after immortality she even hates the more flashy after-car
Euntak has been deprived her whole life of small luxiries so she asks Shin for $5,000 and an apartment, or 'adopt her'.

Bella loves Edward even knowing what he is.
Euntak same.

Bella knows that she must chose immortality to be w/ Edward.
Euntak has no idea why she must pull out the sword, only to prettify Shin, or why she's Goblin's bride at that.

Both Edward and Shin fell in love with higschoolers when they had all the time in the world to find cure for cancer, but that's another story. (Sorry I just got that from facebook, the whole cancer thing, hehe)

And lastly, both doubtful writing from writers (okay I went too far, sorry ✌)

So question is, why the flak for ET-Shin and not for Bella-Edward? Did I miss something?
Also I ship Deok Hwa and his Card, the relationship in the show that makes total sense to me.

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And on that note, in literary terms, it wasn't too long ago where the Barbara Cartland novels or any Harlequin novels were acceptable where the heroine is usually a19-yr old ingenue in love with a 35-40-yr old rich guy.

I'm just curious where society made a turn, at what point in this century did it decide to back pedal on what is "acceptable?"

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Bella/Edward got plenty of flak, and the only reason you are not seeing it here is cause this is a K drama site and that book/movie came out 10 years ago. I can't believe you are using that nonsense to defend a high school girl having a romantic love line with a man she calls Ahjushi in a culture where age hierarchy is so important.

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society made the turn when women were allowed to be educated, vote and were not longer considered the property of their fathers then their husbands.

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Can I add an age difference pair?

Doctor and River

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About power imbalance... my take on it is that the basis of many romantic relationships is often (but not always, and not necessary either) is friendship. Sometimes even a sort of familial bond and love amongst romantic partners.

So while it is not as usual to find friendship with "power imbalance" as defined in here (age, wealth, etc.), it is not impossible, and in my experience, not even that rare. Such friendships where there is some kind of background gap between the friends exist. (Cases I'm more familiar with include a more successful friend, much richer friend, more popular friend, and even older friend by about 20 years).

Such gap is hard to overcome for some people, which is why some people don't like to be friends with people who are not "similar" in status, and find such relationship stressful or unhealthy. But some people can be not only friends, but extremely good and loyal friends despite the "power imbalance" as they bring to each other something in their lives outsiders often overlook. Some people I personally know, connect better with people who are older and younger than them.

So if friendship is possible even with "power imbalance" as defined by people on dramabeans, you only need to add attraction to shift that friendship to romance. If two people can connect on a friendship level, and find each other attractive, I don't see why their love wouldn't work.

The word "power imbalance" implies an unhealthy relationship, but if you think about it, all relationships do have some inequality inherent in them. A man and woman are physically not equal in general, for example. Because abuse of women is prevalent in the world does not mean women should avoid being attracted to stronger men. So what is the limit to "too much?" The answer to that question should be answered by the two individuals involved in the relationship. It is a limit unique to them, their personality, and compatibility.

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So what is the limit to “too much?” The answer to that question should be answered by the two individuals involved in the relationship. It is a limit unique to them, their personality, and compatibility.

Valid points.... however KES hasn't really given Eun Tak the emotional maturity or resources to bargain for that.

Which is why I would prefer a time skip. Like we've said, the power imbalance exists even without the age gap. If she was older, I would at least feel like she was equipped for that conversation.

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I beg to differ.

First, it is not necessary for her to have maturity to have the upper hand in the "bargain," as long as Kim Shin is mature enough for the both of them. ;) If she isn't mature enough to handle him throwing everything he does best at her (powers, wealth, etc.) to subdue her, then he can be the mature one and not use all he has as means to put her in an inferior position.

Second, this is my opinion, but in the conversations between Kim Shin and Euntak, I always have the feeling he's the one who isn't able to handle her well, and doesn't know what to do with her. Imo, she's more than equipped to deal with him verbally. And I posit, even emotionally given that he acts like a man-child where girls are concerned.

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It's not about her having the upper hand, it's about her having ANY hand.

She should have a hand in her romantic/sexual relationships. A relationship is a two-way street.

If Kim Shin is the sole negotiator than that's not a relationship. It's an autocracy...or babysitting.

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Not having resources in a relationship might be one of the ways you feel insecurity but most people in relationships feel insecure one way or another. not so much about resources, and more about how to handle what you have and what is given to you.

At this point, I would say, both Goblin + his bride are about the same level of expertise on how they handle each other. Lots of blunders, with thoughtfulness woven in between. eh.

Comments in #137 on Recap 4 had a nice take too on the topic.

Some extracts and quotes:
Lei, Venson, purplebunny, laundromask

Rite now, I’d qualify their relationship as:

Goblin —> Euntak : intruder disturbing his unchanging life and emotional state after a millennium. Protegee.

Euntak —> Goblin : benefactor. an outlet to escape physical miserable reality and emotional loneliness.

@lei Love your distinction!
As benefactor/protegee or goblin/human, Kim Shin has the power (and literal powers).
As cursed/curse reliever, Eun-tak has the power (literal too) on his fate.
As older or more experience with the mystique/younger and less experienced with mystique, Kim Shin has more information.
As first love/unknown (perhaps crush?), Eun-tak has
*upper hand on emotional romantic state at this moment. She’s clearly getting her way more than he does and controlling him during the past 4 episodes

Nice summary ?

Not really a power thing… more of a balance thing…. but to add to your comment:

Euntak: material unhappiness, but full of life and hope for the future

Goblin: material fulfillment, but in wait for death and punished by divine pain

Both: Lonely souls.

Makes for a nice match doesn’t it? ?

good analysis and reasoning!!

but the romantic in me is struggling with the fact that it matters who has the “emotional upper hand” and who loves who more in a relationship. T___T I’m romantic so I think there’s happiness too, in being able to love someone more, even though it’s hard. T____T I just think instead of thinking like that, maybe we should think the person who loves the other more is experiencing a stronger happiness? ? I know, I know… cheesy ?

If I have to think about who has the advantage… they seems both inexperienced in love… and technically, our Goblin is the older one… but why do I have a feeling he will be the one struggling the most???? hehehehe. It just seems it’s not in Euntak’s personality to be much troubled about it ?

You can read the full comments and discussion here, comment #137
http://www.dramabeans.com/2016/12/the-lonely-shining-goblin-episode-4/comment-page-3/#comments

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Personally, I think that as long as they are happy being with each other, make each other flutter and feel loved, it's a healthy relationship.

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Zella, I feel like we're watching different dramas, or remembering different things from the dramas. I have the impression from watching Goblin that Eun-tak is the one dictating what's happening. She's the one making him do all sorts of stuff, from shopping, eating, going around, housing her, reading poems, driving, summoning -- when he's not going in and out of doors a dozen time to find out where she is -- and she even is the one he needs to refer to for when/where to pull out the sword. For from and autocratic husband?

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*Far from autocratic etc etc.

He listens to her a lot and adjusts to her too. (the running joke about paintings and reading to appear intellectual always makes me lol)

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Last I've observed, he's not the one negotiating here. She's the one who wants a relationship with him, and be his bride, and went to his house to prove that she's his bride. He tells her she doesn't have to do this if she doesn't want to.

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^^ @Jia Cheng, Autocracy is admittedly a hyperbole. I'm just trying to say I don't think it's healthy for one person to dictate the terms of a relationship. Whether they're malicious or well-intended. Not that I'm saying Kim Shin has done that.

@Diane, But she knows that it's her fate to be the "Goblin's Bride." It's what is expected of her. Knowing that takes away a bit of her agency in the choice.

I feel like we're talking about a lot of hypotheticals right now...which isn't really making this conversation less confusing, lol.

Bottom line, I'd just like them to have more equal footing. Kay guys? ?

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In terms of agency, Goblin has no more choice than her then. He become a goblin not on his choice, nor did he choose his bride. But despite "destiny," both found something in each other to love or like. It was their choice to want to be a bride, and fall in love, and want the other to like them.

For equal footings, I'll echo what the others have said. Not all relationships start on equal footings. It's OK as long as the lovers end up of one mind and reach an understanding on their relationships. Equal hearts <3

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"First, it is not necessary for her to have maturity to have the upper hand in the “bargain,” as long as Kim Shin is mature enough for the both of them."

this is one of the creepiest things I've ever read on this site

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I don't even think attraction, as in physical attraction, is always necessary tbh. My brother wasn't at all attracted to his wife (a secret I will keep and drag with me to my grave, but this is anonymous. eh) when he first met her. In the end, he started going out with her because of that non-attraction. Yes, she pursued him for months, but he was the one who actually asked her out. He said he gave a pass to the girls he found hot even when he saw their flaws. Just because they were hot (his words, not mine. eh.) Because he wasn't attracted to my sis-in-law, he was able to evaluate her with open eyes, and found her not-lacking in any way compared to the other girls. She was a "quality" girl. Then, as I observed his relationship, he went from friend-zoned, to "she's cute" to "she's pretty" all the way to marriage. eh.

Moral of the story: affection can grow into love and even attraction.

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Guys... are we seriously discussing this? If people could choose who the person they fall in love with is, getting in a relationship and love wouldn't feel this complicated. People wouldn't get into relationships disapproved by parents, etc. Many peeps don't end up with their "ideal type" anyway.

Even if they could choose, the criteria and most important question to ask should be.. do they treat you well and make you happy?
Age, personality, wealth could affect the answer to that question EITHER WAY. For some people, it would be a plus, others a minus. And sometimes, the pluses would be enough to offset the minues, sometimes, the minuses would bee too much regardless of the pluses.

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The discussion of Eun Tak's age/character has been highlighted here. Personally I don't mind the age gap that much in Goblin or candy characters in general. I grew up reading LJ Smith's books about an immortal goblin king kidnapping a teenager. I just am not wowed by this Eun Tak's particular candy character. Even with all the justification of why she is that way and how she cheers up the goblin, which I understand because I tend to be extra cheerful to balance my sadness, Eun Tak's candy character is not my favourite. I don't watch many dramas with overly candy characters. However, I do like funny Kim Seul Gi in Splash Splash Love. My sister hates her. Yoon Eun Hye in Goong to me is adorable. All my sisters like her. Park Bo Young in that Ghost Drama is bearable. Goblin to me remains a great fantasy story. Relatable. Will watch even if I am distracted by the current Eun Tak.

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apologies are in order,
Legal age in South Korea is 20..

so everyone-anyone with a problem with 19 yr old romancing anyone.. have their reason!

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It depends what you need the legal age for. It's different for drinking, driving, marriage, sexual consent, voting... etc

At least according to this site: https://klawguru.com/2016/12/03/legal-age-laws-in-south-korea/

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oh yea! i assumed for sexual consent in this case..

Not so is it?
In my country it is 18.. so i really don't get the hoola ho around goblin's age difference

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Wow. In my country it is 15! And legal marriageable is 18 for a girl and 21 for guy! I was truly confused about the age gap debate. But it all boils down to Cultural differences i guess

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20? 8/. What do koreans say about the Goblin-EunTak age gap?

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@EZ Light's point here is her 'candy'-ness meaning her character and NOT her age.

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This

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+1

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That also my opinion. I don't like Eun tak that much, I do like the girl from Splash splash love and am okay with other candy girls like the one in Goong but this time around she just isn't for me. Instead of adorable I often find her inconsiderate, ignorant, ungrateful and just lacking in thoughtfulness. It makes for funny scenes but...idk.

For me personally though it's also that I don't like the actress's performance as this character. I don't think she is a bad actress at all but I do notice her high voice as being fake and her smiles often seem also fake....I'm probably going to get hate for this but that's just how it feels to me.

I also don't have a problem with the actual age of the character; at most I would have a problem with her mental age/ maturity. There was nothing in her relationship with the goblin that is bad or questionable but it also doesn't feel like a romance to me somehow..even during their romantic moments. Well, it's a very chaste romance I guess, like two elementary students falling in love for the first time having their first kiss be a peck on the cheek in the sandpit, maybe later it's going to grow into something more.
Anyways, the romance aside, Eun tak is surely not my favorite character in this drama but maybe she will grow on me someday, like the spoiled nephew did.

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This. Very much middle school. But I dont find the character's mannerisms funny at all. To compensate, I imagine an animated manhwa come to life everytime I watch Goblin. Because of that I am able to relate to the sudden changes in character from sober to cartoonish. Unfortunately I cringe everytime Eun Tak's candiness go overboard. I imagine a director telling her to be cuter. The candy spoiled chaebol nephew at least made me laugh. Let's see how it goes.

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Omg, my heart skipped a beat when I saw my name/comment! ?? which was the same feeling I got when Eun-tak was taking her sweet time crossing/jumping around in the streets. Ahaha. It's hilarious that most of us felt the same way watching what should've been a beautiful and touching moment. I was too busy watching between my fingers and expecting the worst to appreciate the beauty the first time around but that's just another excuse for me to rewatch the scenes. <333

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I definitely had to go and re-watch that scene for the same reason! I did notice on the re-watch that there are constantly other people crossing on that sidewalk at the same time as her - which was probably a sign that we shouldn't have been worried in the first place, ha.

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Just because truck of doom didnot make an appearance in Canada does not mean it won't in Korea..

Say Hello! to Ep 7 preview

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Yes I saw that... and I'm forgetting it until I can do something about it (basically until next Friday XD )

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Actually the people in the crossing move away and still she stays there amazed by the 'Red Carpet'.. i would have dragged her out of there if it were me!

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Watching dramas with you guys is NEVER boring!

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Truck of doom probably didn't get a visa, so he cannot be present in that scene.

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Rejected by Exim Clearance officer in Canada border with remark: Failed to Meet Standard Requirement.

Just as Leenie pointed above. Canada only have (allows) nice cars. ToD is the opposite. It only brings tragedy and fatality. ^^

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not to mention ToD doesn't have teleportation powers.

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Oh, I ABSOLUTELY believe that ToD has teleportation powers. There is no other way it can appear out of nowhere and cream any Korean meandering across a wide, clear, low-traffic street.

And I one of the many who found themselves during Eun Tak's road-crossing scene thinking "Oh god, she's going to get hit by a car or a tru... Oh wait, Canada. She's fine."

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Truck of Doom forgot his pasport and miss the flight so he cannot be present..
However, he's sure to get revenge once they're in Korea.. Brace yourself, everyone!

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The most recent Goblin episodes has explained why Eun Tak met Goblin when she's 19 years old. I find the explanation believable, since there's indeed a superstition in Korean about the importance of age that ended with "9". Remember "Nine Plus Boys? (I was let down by that drama because I expected Oh Jung Se would get more screentime and interesting storylin)

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@gabobobobo Good point... so I wonder then if he meets her again at 29, if this storyline goes where I think it's going and a separation is on the cards *hopefuls*

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I'm so glad this discussion about Bok-joo and her body image is happening. I have to remind myself that this is an actress playing this character, because he internal struggles feel so real. It's true - as a teenager you *are* extra sensitive to everyone's perception of your body, and also your character. She may have a healthy and fit, normal body but that is still 'flabbier' and 'chubbier' than the projected ideal, delicate female figure.
Kudos to this drama for so sensitively portraying the anguish they feel about their femininity, but not presenting these views as right.

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So true. It's amazing how a drama like Weightlifting Fairy with such a simple and down-to-earth tone can spark such wonderful discussions. I personally have never had weight problems, but reading people's comments about their personal experiences and opinions makes me realize how relevant a topic this drama is addressing, and in such a wonderful manner. This drama is important.

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Me too, I have no weight problems but her depression in Episode 10 just hits me bulls-eye. Anyone could relate to Bok Joo one way or another, and I will never look at Lee Sung Kyung or Nam Joo Hyuk the same way.

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In regards of what happen in Goblin,
what I find icky is how all of euntak problem is gonna be solved just by meeting the goblin.
It such an anticlimax and rest to the fate attitute without her doing something that is not related to she is not the bride.
What is her plus point for him? did he actually interested because of her or because it will always be her like the fate.
The shows shown it like he pampered her because he can and there is absolutely nothing wrong with resting it to your fate if you are born miserable without solving your problem normally.

Then the viewer is forced to pity her, with all the misfortune and how her life supposedly gone wrong and it's all should be paid by the goblin, by the viewer and not her.
Like the missfortune is what makes us owed her a compassion and not what she inspired us to do, being bubbly because you got daddy long leg and supernatural being helping you solved our problem is the real deal.

Then the bickering of euntak and goblin is one way. She forces herself into his life multiple time, repetaed with cute act she thought will save the day.
No, you can act cute but not all the time to someone who will gonna solve your problem even without it, too entitled and never learns.
I can't see the chemistry or how they even need a romantic relationaship.
If you changed euntak to a little girl in prymary-middle school, it would work better.
When they have compassion 1st and not something called love, bride or couple for no reason.
The bromance bickering come from comfort and 2 ways. They give action and reaction, they are smiling and they have banter.

And the drama become less enjoyable every ep imo, it's like the repeated info we got and turn that into cliffhanger.
The editing linger too long for their sake.
disclaimer : It is how euntak is portrayed and written. So don't go and said I just hate female heroine and worship the male actor who apparently just good at their job

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I'm having trouble understanding what ur mean to express in ur comment/rant... but I'll attempt

U shouldn't feel forced to feel compassion. Compassion in nature isn't forced. If ur forcing it, u don't have it. Being poor, with no love, imo, is a good reason for someone to feel compassion.

If u don't like her personality, u don't like it. It still doesn't make her unlovable to others, especially to Kim Shin, which is all that matters. He likes her smile, and cheerfulness, as do loads of others.

Some people love each other precisely because meeting each other changed their whole lives for the better. He's bringing a sense of security and family to her. She no longer needs to worry about abuse, walking out the house at night, etc. and she brings her liveliness, less loneliness, etc.

Chemistry= subjective. If u can't see it. Condolences. Ur missing out on some serious fun.

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@Caroline Just so you know, no need to bother with them next time. No matter what you write, it won't change their opinions. That person has been repeatedly going around Goblin's posts, posting the same repeated points again and again. Always angry, belligerent, aggressive comments too. It would waste your time to be bothered.

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Well, that's because trolls are long-sworn ennemies with Goblins. So they are forever lurking around Db's Goblin's recap. It's okay, one day you will have your drama too, trolls.

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Hahahahaha. Good one.

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Lol Gold!

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ggaah,
this is exactly why I dislike commenting too long in goblin related

it's someone one loss if they didn't get the right thing (as your opinion),
then my condolences for having such a rosy sunglasses to let flaw becomes a bigger flaw,
I don't get how goblin commenter didn't even tries understand the issue and quick jumping at every criticism is people who don't see the acting or just a bias,

what I addressed is how Euntak story is just not good than the goblin which makes the viewer mismatch their opinion on them,

@no idea, you call out my name and how did yo know I am a them and I never repeated the comment,
it's the idea that conveyed every episode in goblin that there's no substance in the story at all, they all just need to grow old and take out the sword when ET is gonna die,
goblin will saved her and not everyone think she deserves to be saved by death just because she is "cute",
Goblin has around hundreds-thousands of post and unless I had write around 100 post to just make it looked bad then I refused to get be called troll by you,

what an utter disappointment that opinion would be shut because it was inconvenient and bad,
I thought everything can be discussed and this just make me sure that fans will always see criticism as a way to downgrade something when they upgraded it all and place in the place it shouldn't be

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Uh.. you know, using a hostile tone in your comment is kind of like you're doing the job for @No idea right? You're proving her/his point about your aggressive comments perfectly.

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Yes, divee makes a good point. Your criticism would be better received and listened to if it weren't coated in anger. Why the irascible tone?

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I actually regards this as the fans bullying the commenter who criticism by saying how others are hater when there is not tone of angry or bad words is used.

When you alrady view it as anger, you can't view it as others.
My condolences for the mob mentality and the grouping againts people who voice out the flaw of drama as it not a normal thing.
Next time I will used a tonel to show how low energy I said a of this word cause this is what I feel every time I read how goblin fans mock the criticism comment all the time.

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OMG, who cares about the age gap between a GOBLIN and a teenager. It's not like she's having sex with him or like he's letting her? Pffssh!

And he dies the moment she pulls the sword out (supposedly) so they aren't living together (as husband and wife) forever. They don't even act like lovers whatsoever.

Maybe she's called the Goblin's Bride instead of Wife because that's all she's gonna be. Not wife-with-bed-sharing-rights. Eesh. Samshin is all about protecting the minors. (Is it??)

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I love you for writing this post, Peeps ? It's so true, he's a freaking goblin, what does age matter since she's even an adult anyway?

When I thought she wasn't gonna be 18 when they met I did have a problem with the age gap, but as long as she's an adult, I don't really care. Couples like this (well, forgetting the whole goblin thing of course) happen irl all the time. I know some and they are happy as can be in their love for each other.

I personally find it much more troublesome when it's the actress/actor, not the character who is underage. Because then it's a real person having to pretend to be romantically invested in a person much older and they may not always have a say at all in whether or not they e.g. kiss said older actor (despite how little skinship there often is when the pairings are like that, there's usually always a kiss involved at some point in the drama). That to me is a much bigger problem. That means an underaged person might HAVE TO kiss someone else, because that's their job. Yet everyone on DB were delighted at the romance in MDBC for instance. I don't get how FICTIONAL characters having an age gap where both are adults, and the actors are both very much adults, is worse than a real, underaged actress acting romantically involved with a (sometimes much) older actor?

Besides, Shin is born in a time where young girls (even under 18) were often married off to older (even elderly) men and no one batted an eye. So he probably doesn't think their age gap is that big compared to what it used to be nor that she's too young. Not saying that it was right to marry off 16 yr olds to 60 yr olds (at all!), nor am I sure that it happened in Korea, just know that it was common in other places, just saying that that might be an explanation as to why he doesn't think about her age much. And it's not like anyone is NOT gonna have a power imbalance or humongous age gap with a 900 yr old, wealthy GOBLIN with all the knowledge of said 900 years ?

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1 litre of tears included the 'love story' because the mother of the real Aya wanted it to be included...Having mostly watched telenovelas and indian serials before, I thought that the romance was quite understated. This actually led me to foray into K-dramas where there was more action on the romance front..
The 2 dramas that I am watching right now (bok joo and night light) seem quite female-centric (i.e. the female character is the lead really). Having a love interest seems quite the common thing in most development dramas because finding a partner has long been essential for human evolution. Not so much today and some of us might resent that having a love interest is meant to be a central part of a character growth.. In a world where the disparity between gender and financial abilities is rife, I totally understand the frustration of the 'woman needs a man' trope in K-dramas. The latter are a welcome break/passion/hobby for most readers here and seeing something so subtle and yet blatant sometimes puts us on the defensive. Personally, I do not mind the character-centric dramas having a love interest. Problem is with male-centric and some female-centric (i.e. night light) , the love interests are bland. That is why I love Joon Hyung so much right now, his character is being developed enough as a side character/lead while bok joo is really the limelight of the drama. He's not the passionate lover but he is also a sweeter version of a love interest in a more 'realistic' drama. Kudos really for the writers' characterisation of JH...

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well iam not too familiar with Mary, she got mentioned in one particular post and that's how i knew she was an important figure to dramabeans. But i don't think she's DB STAFF, iam pretty sure DB STAFF is a combination of all our DramaBeans recapers. When they post recaps, they indicate there user names (By: girlfriday, javabeans, lollypip, laica, awcoconuty, and so on). If they all take part in posting "Beans of wisdom" it's possible they'd call themselves 'DB STAFF'. Don't you think?

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I was trying to add a thought of mine, unfortunately, it went all way down there to coment #13

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Regarding Truck of Doom: Goblin definitely toyed with our kdrama fear of ToD in that Canada scene, and also with the blind man in episode 6. Thankfully show was considerate and didn't actually show us incoming ToD, but its presence was felt. *tear*

Don't know if anyone is watching Seven Kisses , but I'm in a continual state of LOL because every 10-minute episode is like a tribute to another character's drama and its cliches (and was that a reference to Titanic at the dance in episode 5?) I wouldn't be surprised if ToD makes a fleeting appearance just for kicks.

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