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Open Thread #592

Happy Friday everyone!

Here is your Open Thread, which is here for you to chat about anything you want, whether it be drama-related or not. Nothing’s off-topic here! Spoilers may be rife, so proceed accordingly.

 
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Good morning, Beanies! Is anyone else following the furor over the SK government and plastic surgery (idol look-alikes)? I find I agree with the government in that it has gone too far.

This might be a minority opinion, but I have a hard time watching actors with faces that are surgically modified to the extreme- the two fluffy rom-coms broadcasting right now feature two of my biggest challenges; I really try to avoid them, because most of my attention is irresistably drawn to the artificiality of the face.

So, I am strongly in support of real beauty, and my definition of it is very broad! Flaws add to the charming allure of a face and I offer Yoo Seung-ho and Gong Yoo as examples. I am not sure you can legally mandate change, but I think you can encourage public opinion through campaigns.

What do you think?

P.S. I feel part of my growing fascination with jdramas is the naturalness of the actors.

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It's evening down here! So Good Morneve!
Like my favorite philosopher says, "Change within, change without"
If the industry played more on talent than looks, things could look up.
But it isn't just the industry is it? How many people have committed suicide as a result of being constantly bullied for being "ugly"?
God rest their souls.

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It is a vicious cycle- people see what is considered beauty by the industry and feel they need to attempt to meet them.

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Now don't that just remind me of Gangnam Beauty?
I get that people are naturally attracted to beauty, but sometimes, the beauty within will outshine the one without, if only we don't shut the door in it's face.

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industry needs its consumer.. so isn't it the question for consumers to own up to their actions. Why do we always have to mollycoodle the masses - what campaigns? can't a society take ownership of its own actions --

or accept the fact, if that is the case, that pretty triumphs

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Um... By what standard is Yoo Seung Ho's face considered flawed?! That took me completely by surprise. I don't mean to say that he has a perfectly perfect face, but I wouldn't have imagined anyone thinking of it as flawed.

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Lol. My first thought was Gong Yoo is perfection.
However, he won't get lost in a sea of faces. And I'm not sure his face fits some ideal golden ratio. But damn is he handsome, even though apparently he looks like a dinosaur.

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Right? He's beautiful, and successful in spite of being a dinosaur!

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Yikes! I offer him as an example of an actor who has kept his face, and has seemed to resist the temptation to narrow his nose, broaden his cheeks, augment his chin, double his eyelids, sharpen his jawline, etc.

I think he's real and absolutely beautiful, but so are the others who fall under the knife.

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Me also puzzled with this one. :)

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I really cant tell if someone had surgery or not by looking at them nor do I follow korean celebrity news.
Personal preference - It does bother me when I see flawless faces - like not a freckle and skin like ceramic. It feels so unnatural that I am naturally repulsed by it.
Even if someone looks good or does not look good (to my eyes) initially, my likes changes once I get to know their acting. Eventually its their body of work that seals it for me.
for e.g. I find Gong Yoo super handsome. And also Ji Sung (I hated him in the first drama i watched. even dropped it. But strangely now, I think he is just too handsome)
Cho Seung-woo is just pure handsomeness!

even with plastic surgery and good looks eventually its their acting and personality that remains in people'e hearts for a long time know?
It is sad though, that looks are given such importance. looks, skin, weight - all this is a problem.
These are issues law should not interfere - awareness is what is needed. The Govt can run campaigns on positiveness of real beauty, but not mandate anything.

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another person I can think of is Bae Do Na.
she looks absolutely gorgeous to me but she is not a textbook beauty??!! (am guessing textbook beauty is defined eyelids, sharp nose, defined cheeks etc)

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She's a perfect example!

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And Han Ye Ri!!

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I agree with this -"These are issues law should not interfere - awareness is what is needed. " There are many video clips in youtube showing actors/actresses who had plastic surgery, and some of them I wondered why they did because they already looked good. But in case like Park Min-young, if she had her original face (if what is shown is her real face), I wonder if she could reach where he is today. I have no problem people doing surgery because I love to see the pretty face, but I also think it went too far. (Some people really don't need one to me)

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Exactly, choice to alter ones look isn't make in vacuum, society would need to more open to broader definition of beauty, and that can be made with implementing some laws.
Some of this celebritites indeed looke better after surgery and it really boosted their careers but seeing established one constantly tweaking their looks is just sad, because it reveal how much pressure they are under and how insecure those beautiful people still are.

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Park Min young was pretty but did not have that V shaped face they want. That's unfortunate. But what breaks my heart is, I absolutely adored Ji Chang wook's looks before his nose job. Yes, he's super fine now but (sometimes from certain angles the nose job is glaringly obvious) and there was just something so likeable about his original face with its nose. Maybe the fact that it made his face less than perfect. I've always liked to be prettier than the man that I date or fantasize over. X-D

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Agree! I much prefer the original nose and it made his face more interesting.

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About flawless skin. I recall one scene in particular in 'What's Wrong With Secretary Kim?" There was a scene with the hero and his mother on a couch, I think. The shot looked like it was rushed, the lighting looked weird. Most noticeable was very heavy pancake makeup that under that lighting looked very unnatural. I looked like the sort of pancake makeup you'd see in an old silent film.

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It does bother me when I see flawless faces - like not a freckle and skin like ceramic. It feels so unnatural that I am naturally repulsed by it.

I'm not repulsed but this brings to mind Lee Jong Suk. We know about his nose issues but his skin is unnaturally white. He's attractive but he needs to stop right now.

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Even when you look at old pictures, LJS was always pale (although perhaps much more now because of products and make-up). Supposedly he's tried tanning but his skin type is that he just turns red and burns so it doesn't work.

youtube(dot)com/watch?v=BRzMQmaAJCI

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I think it’s mostly the make up and lighting too.
Wish they go easy on the make up. And the lipsticks.
In RIBB i really like Dan-I ‘s make up. It’s quite soft and no harsh lipsticks at home.

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His skin is naturally just like that though. Pictures of when he was a kid up until high school all show him being super pale and much lighter next to other people. The nose is honestly one of the most unfortunately cases I've ever seen, but given how he still manages to shine with it on his face I give major props to him tbh.

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Someone just posted gifs of him from a drama (idk which but he's wearing a h.s uniform) and he has a little color.

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Idk I don't see that much difference tbh. You can see from that (extremely cringe) clip kx posted above that he pretty much looks like you can see right through him, and he's like 15 in it. I'm not in any ways defending bleaching one's skin even if it's my fav--I just don't think it's the same in his case. And he doesn't even look that white in RIABB, he looks a normal skin tone. (In fact I don't even find his skin to be as porcelain as people often make him out to be. Take School or Hymn of Death for examples on top my head, you can see clearly the blemishes when they zoom in).

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My favorite actors are the ones that have not had obvious work done on their face. I have some strong opinions on plastic surgery and I do appreciate actors like Gong Yoo who may not meet the Korean standard of beauty, but are gorgeous in their own way. Kim Go Eun, Park Bo Young, Jang Nara are all examples of women who I think are adorable.

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I've posted this link at least once before

https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-04-26/south-korean-beauty-pageant-faces-controversy

but I can't let this opportunity go without repeating...

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Thanks @lordcobol. They really looked like clones!

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I have an underlying purpose to this post. I hope it helps bolster any actor trying to resist the pressure to meet those standards of beauty.

I fell in love with kdramas because no one demonstrates the power of human expression better than they do.

The sad truth is you can't have surgery without cutting nerves, and you can't have micro expressions of emotions without facial nerves.

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I don't really care if they get plastic surgery or not ... it should be an individual choice whether they do or don't ... not the governments. BUT, I do have to admit that in dramas I am more drawn to people with unique, identifiable features as they don;t look like actor no 56

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definitely agree.
what's the use of getting a great looking face if you gonna look like everybody else in the neighborhood…

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I'm not against plastic surgery per se, but in case of celebrities it always bothered me that this already gorgeous people are pressured to tweak their faces, and it is really prevalent in SK, I don't remember any other western celebrity that remodelled entire face after already being well known, it disheartening. But government should censored who's qualified to be on tv based on how natural they looking, what is needed is deeper change and it will take years to make, what they can do is to campaign awareness.

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shouldn't censored obviously

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No, not as many once they're already famous but I swear, it looks to me as if Lady Ga Ga's nose is somewhat less pubiscus (I think I used that word right?) for this latest remake of A Star is Born. Also there was Jennifer Grey.

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@ramonathepest Maybe proboscis? Yes! Jennifer Grey was a perfect example of more being 'less'. Her real nose added such depth to her face and her new nose was meh.

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It felt like even though I was looking at her, she disappeared.

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Thank you for the correct word @beantown before I get myself banned from Dramabeans because the non- word I used could've been mistaken for something crude. LOL

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I'm not sure about GaGa but yes Jennifer Grey, changed completely and tanked her entire career with new nose, I think we can put Ashlee Simpson into that list but her transition was more successful than J.Grey.

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Oh, Jennifer Grey’s be nose ruined her whole career.

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I guess you're talking about this.

https://cnalifestyle.channelnewsasia.com/trending/south-korea-retracts-guidelines-on-look-alike-k-pop-stars-11262038

Such a pity that making money, being promoted, getting a job in entertainment/media, etc depends so much on looks. The guidelines should be stressing not that all should not look the same, but that the well being of their people is the reason for the concern.

I notice that even the Korean people I meet in my part of the world, take care to look good. They are hardly ever seen without make up and dressed nicely. When seen next to us locals, we look like the garbage ladies LOL.

Too much emphasis on externals, (that will inevitably change with time, no matter what), is detrimental to physical, emotional and mental health, ... and not to mention financial health as well!

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@growingbeautifully I hear you! I felt completely under-dressed when visiting Paris.
Hysterically, I kept getting busted (and yelled at) by the fashion police, but fortunately most of it was beyond my pedestrian french!

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LOL! Glad to not understand much of what they say as well. Most of the time everyone is polite.

However one look at this bunch of us and anyone can tell who's local. 😁

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Thank you for bringing this up , i drop dramas when too much of drag queen seeps through on to the poor actors

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I read an article about it in the paper. As a teenager what has seen peers on social media feel bad about their features but it's really concerning when people mention plastic surgery to have particular features. My views about this aren't very coherent but it's scary when people say stuff like 'your nose should be like this' or ' your forehead should not be like this'

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I may be silly, but just like I don't recognize when they do PPL, I almost never recognize if a man or woman has plastic surgery, also, honestly, I don't want to know. I don't envy them for their beauty, be it real or "worked", I appreciate both actors and actresses who make me feel something.
Sometimes I have got to know a certain person has her nose done, or whatever else, but it is very rare because I never read the tabloids nor I care about gossip.
But anyway, I understand your feeling. In my country, actresses are soooo much done that it is disgusting to see the same role played again and again just for different girls with big boobs that were obviously plastic surgery, even I know 😂😂😂😂
It is like they are so much concern about physical attractiveness (whatever they think that is), that they don't convey any feeling at all.
So... that hasn't happened to me watching kdramas, but maybe it will....eventually 😅😂😅😂😅

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I find that the thing that bothers me is that most Kdrama actors/actresses look like they have dentures. I also find that watching an older actress that looks like she's had a complete makeover, is distracting. They can be very good at acting but I find myself looking at their face all the time instead of the action.

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hello everyone happy friday!!! gonna be my first and possibly last OT submission in at least the near future, as it's 3am now at my end of the world and I don't think I can continue to stay up once school starts! I've finally settled in Wellington and have gone to 2 orientation sessions the past days and it was a pretty good experience! One thing I'm really grateful for is that the first friend I made at Uni was someone who actually likes dramas & kpop! (hurrah!) I'm really pumped for Uni to start and to move into the Halls of Residence, so that I'll be able to have freedom at last!!!! hopefully once I'm done with the ton of admin work I'll have more time to be on db and also catch up on more dramas. One really huge Con of going to Uni however, is the HUGE hill(s) I've got to cross to get there (sighs). Even though the Hall is less than 1km away from the campus, theres an elevation of 53m and that walk basically drains me even before classes start. That's it! I'm too tired to type anymore, so thats the end of this short and random life update! goodnight/ morning everyone! : )

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Have fun! I enjoyed my uni days most.

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Wishing you all the best at Uni!

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Enjoy! Best wishes to you!

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like your random life update. Fighting!

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Does the network provider that picks up a drama affect your viewing pleasure and experience?

I have both a Viki and Netflix subscription, but I dislike watching kdramas on Netflix and it holds me back from enjoying it so I just don't do it.

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I'd rather watch on legal sites and Netflix has the down load option, which I love, so I do like watching dramas on there.
However, their subs. I really wish they'd put more effort into them. I hate hearing "Noona" but reading Danyi's name.

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That's one of the big reasons why I hate watching kdramas on Netflix. That fan subs are sometimes better than the professional subs because they get the nuances and sometimes even explain cultural things. Also, sometimes Netflix kills the hype by airing episodes or whole series late. Ugh.

I don't actually think I've ever viewed a kdrama on Netflix. (I use it for documentaries or Western shows.) If a kdrama gets picked up by Netflix, I just lose motivation to watch it and it ends up low on my forever growing to-watch list.

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Fan subs are great. I recently watched Pride and the subs were amazing.
Also, they probably know they don't need to simplify it for us and that how language is used can be of interest to people who watch foreign shows.
I'm watching The Great British Baking Show and now have a want to somehow fit "scrummy" and "jammy Dodger" into my vocabulary.

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When i was in my last drama (and life) slump, Mary Berry and her scrummy bakes got me through <3 I lovelovelove that show. I love the words (as you say) and I love how savage MB is while still being perfectly poised. eg., "It's not the most attractive cake, is it? But it *might* taste all right." Tiny bite. Pursed lips. mary berry i love you.

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@anothernicole she can say so much by saying so little.

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I do miss those days when subbers give "feedbacks" and the 5cents worth in explaining things in a series.
at times i get to rewatch the drama simply because of the subber's side comments. it makes me feel like i am watching and reacting with a buddy…

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@bcampbell1662 Beverly,

I hear you. ;-)

I'm not too fond of Netflix subtitles for exactly the same reason. On the other hand, I should be grateful that they provide subs at all. Maybe my pickiness just means I've been watching Kdramas long enough to understand forms of address, honorifics, etc., which is a good thing. There are situations in which specifically identifying a character is very helpful.

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I know this isn't as big of an issue but I also hate it when Netflix throws the sub at the top of a scene. I've finally mastered viewing the subs and the actors at the same time (I used to miss subtle facial expressions or gestures) but when that sub appears at the top, it throws my whole game off! I usually have to rewind to catch what it said and rewatch scene.

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generally if they are putting the subs at the top of the screen, it is so they don't obscure some text at the bottom of the screen. I do understand your frustration with it though.

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@egads i'm aware but I still hate it. LOL And Viki manages to still keep the subs down below without obscuring anything.

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@ramonathepest,

The supertitles (as in superscript) drive me bonkers, too. Some outfits put lyrics at the top of the screen to keep them away from the subtitles.

The late lamented Written In The Heavens Subbing Squad (WITH S2) put their explanatory notes at the top of the screen. The information was so useful while I was watching JUMONG and KINGDOM OF THE WINDS that I looked forward to reading it.

I normally attempt to watch raw episodes so I can pay attention to facial expression, eyes, body language (and listen to speech) without getting wall-eyed from trying to ignore the subtitles. Then I watch at least once with subtitles. If there's a delay with recaps, I often watch again before reading them to refresh my memory. After a couple of passes, my comprehension usually improves somewhat. Even without supertitles, I have to rewind often. But I never fast-forward. Ever. ;-)

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@pakalanapikake I actually DO like for song lyrics to be at the top so then I can ignore them if I choose. I really hate when some subbers, without any designation that it's the lyrics, include it right along with the dialogue and I have to rewind to think about what probably WAS NOT actually said and separate it out. I've actually seen that where it's lyrics/dialogue/lyrics on one screen without music notes or .

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There are situations in which specifically identifying a character is very helpful.

Or the opposite. In kdramas part of the story sometimes is the confusion of using a title instead of a name. When Netflix uses the name instead of the title it totally ruins the reveal.

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@thatstp,

You're right!

In my second Kdrama, THE KING'S DAUGHTER, SU BAEK HYANG, one party is overheard addressing another as a relative -- which confused the heck out of me. Many episodes later, it turned out to have been a major plot point.

On the other hand, when a hall full of ministers all look alike in their robes and winged caps, I really appreciate it when I at least get to hear a few surnames so I can look them up on the show's AsianWiki page.

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Thank you @bcampbell1662 Beverly for voicing something that has bugged me for a long time.
You mentioned “Noona” well it annoys me to no end when I see “hyung” translated with a given name. I believe that was the style on DramaFever and is now for Kocowa. I wish they would all follow the Viki style which is to not translate noona, hyung and probably a few more Korean terms that frequently occur in kdramas.

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I don’t mind Netflix, but I didn’t like watching Reply 1997 there without the original music. That’s probably not Netflix’s fault, but still.

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I tried to rewatch a Knowing Brothers ep with Taemin dancing to Leave a Light On and instead he is dancing to elevator music.

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Wow.

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Anyone uses Android tv box with kodi or plex?
Anyone uses here Firestick or such other options?
There are many korean Kodi addons there but i'm trying to find live-channel addons or buildups.
Finding Japanese media is just too difficult.

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My cousin swears by this box as she says it gets Korean channels but she doesn't watch Kdramas so I don't know if those channels would have English subs and we live in different states do I'm leery about buying it without actually seeing it in action.

https://www.amazon.com/FASTER-BETTER-THAN-SERVICE-ENABLED/dp/B07CJV7PX8

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kx, you are not alone I was just wondering why I do not like watching kdramas on Netflix. Since I watch them on Roku my streaming sites are limited so by default it’s Netflix. I do like Viki, but their freebie watching is starting to get very limited. I wish OnDemandKorea, or at least their Roku version, would have more recent kdramas subbed in English.

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Let me agree with you @keiko re OnDemandKorea. I was hoping ODK would fill the gap that was created with the demise of DramaFever. It is nice that it is accessible on Roku. They must already have the licensing issues figured out I only wish they would become one of “the” sources for English subbed kdramas. Iirc DramaFever had a paid subscription base of around 400,000 when the plug was pulled. I would be willing to become an ODK subscriber if it provided a decent selection of current dramas subbed in English.

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with me, I think the reason I also prefer Viki, besides the subs, is the control of 10 seconds rewind. I think we dub readers are more likely to need a very short rewind just to catch that last word or two in the last sentence of a wordy scene and I HATE when it rewinds 30 full lonnnng seconds.

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OMG, the 10 sec rewind is so useful! Not only to catch subs, I'm guilty of abusing the rewind button if a scene needs instant rewatch. It is sorely missed when a player (even Youtube) doesn't have a 10 sec rewind/forward button.

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This is one of the things I hate about Kocowa. No rewind button.

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@thatstp You're right!! I'm surprise because I only watch Kocowa on the Roku so when you said that, I checked their app on my phone. What is wrong with them???????

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Amen to 10-second rewind! Sometimes the subs fly by too fast, and I have to replay them a couple of times, especially when they are verbose.

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In the past, OnDemandKorea used to have more English subtitled content. I drool over some of the documentaries that are not subbed. Was that where I saw a 500 YEARS JOSEON series, or some other historical show with reenactments. It reminded me of the TWENTIETH CENTURY hosted by Walter Cronkite and sponsored by Prudential Insurance in days of yore.

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OnDemandKorea needs a better spokesperson. Right after the DramaFever debacle, ODK announced that they were going to fill in the streaming gap by having more of their content translated. I understand (from direct communication with them) it's not always easy to get a license for the subtitles (who knew that was a thing?) but I REALLY don't like empty promises. And to top it off, I bought a Roku (that I really don't need) because of the ODK and Kocowa apps that are on it and the shows that ODK does have subs for won't show at all. At first their subs would only show half a sentence and finish with elypses... I called and they said they were aware and they're working on that but now the shows that say they have English subs have none showing on the Roku but they do show on other devices. And today Kocowa is having problems with their subs on Roku, too.

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Ouch! I watch on my laptop, and have no experience with Roku. It confuses me that the subtitles would be whacked out because of the hardware.

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@pakalanapikake A couple of years ago, I was rewatching Five Children on ODK (54 eps). (I've watched it on Viki but for shows I love and want to rewatch anyway, it's fun to see how different translators affect the story.) Midway through the subs disappeared. I contacted ODK and was told some vague answer that I don't remember now. So thinking it was just a temporary glitch, I continued to check back every few weeks to see if it got fixed. After two years (fairly recently) they informed me they no longer had the license for the subs. I still don't get it but I guess the subs are owned by whomever translated it.

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@ramonathepest
February 23, 2019 at 10:55 AM

After two years (fairly recently) they informed me they no longer had the license for the subs.

The mind boggles. It never occurred to me that the subtitles would be separate from the drama itself, but it really does make sense. If the subs were not supplied by the original broadcaster of the show, then someone else had to have been paid to segment, time, and do the actual translating. When I first started watching, it was on Hulu, and most of the shows were from MBC, I think. MBC America supplied the subtitles for THE KING'S DAUGHTER, SU BAEK HYANG. Within a year or so, they ceased providing subs. Too bad, because D. Bannon did very nice subs for them.

I'm a latecomer to Kdramaland, and haven't dealt with downloading torrents and softsubs, etc., etc.

Anyway, it should come as no surprise that subtitles might be considered derivative works. I'm sure the intellectual property lawyers had fun drawing up the contracts.

Maybe we should be grateful that Kdrama fans don't have to buy an "End-User License Agreement" to read subtitles for each show. Maybe I shouldn't say that too loudly. ;-)

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@ramonathepest --

FIVE CHILDREN!!! What a nice show. I loved the OTP. That may have been my first weekend family drama. ;-)

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@pakalanapikake Five Children is on my short list of favs. I still insist to everyone that I can, that they should watch this drama because the main female character is unlike any character I've ever come across in Kdrama - she stands her ground, even with overbearing ahjumma buttinsky in-laws without ever being disrespectful.

And then of course the second lead couple is also great as we don't only see them during the pursuit stage like most kdramas which end it there. Instead we actually see them function as a couple.

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@ramonathepest
February 26, 2019 at 6:24 AM

I don't recall the whole show, but I do remember how doggone charmingly attractive Ahn Jae-wook was. The main pair were terrific, especially in dealing with the various & sundry jackasses. Granny Jang was a loose cannon of a battleaxe -- but once her reason for being that way was revealed, you could understand why. Ex son-in-law was such a jerk. It was a blast to see Sung Hoon have actual dialogue after his turn as the killer flutist in FAITH, and the romance with Shin Hye-sun was nice.

Even though there was screechy makjang at times, it didn't last too long, and just made me love the main couple all the more for maintaining their commitment and dignity.

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I finally gave in to Viki and subscribed just this week. Because it was apparent they were going the 'Drama Fever' route and free viewing with commercial interruptions was being intentionally hobbled. And I did NOT want to go back to watching American broadcast TV for my entertainment.

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There are downsides to both for me so I just say whatever and be happy they are both still up and running. #ripdramafever

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One thing Viki does that I like is 'explain the jokes'. They'll translate a line then add in parentheses a (This references an old Korean fairytale) or (this word is a homonym for another). The departed site "Drama Fever" had a bad habit of over-translating. If your a K-drama viewer and don't know what an oppa, a noona and a sunbae are you just haven't been paying attention.

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One funny example of a translation ruining a joke was in 'Matrimonial Chaos'. The husband (according to the translation) says 'Marriage is like porridge' to which the wife responded 'Did you just swear?' If you listen closely the husband had actually said 'marriage is like juk'. Ooooh, now I get the joke!

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I'm probably in the minority for saying this, but I actually prefer watching shows on Netflix or Kocowa over Viki based purely on the subs of each.

Back when I was still a newbie to Korean I preferred Viki because the additional cultural details and literal translations really helped me to learn Korean, but now that I can recognize a lot of those nuances and cultural aspects on my own I prefer less literal word-for-word translations. Every show on Viki has a different subbing team though so some shows are better done than others.

In general, I find that subs on Netflix and Kocowa have a lot more creative freedom. Instead of focusing on translating exactly what is being said in Korean, they tend to put more effort into translating things based on emotions, character personalities, and situations. As a result, even though there are some drawbacks, overall the subs come across as much more colloquial and natural sounding to me which makes me enjoy it more. Also, as a subber myself, I just find it fascinating to see how they handle trying to translate things like banmal and titles like noon/hyung/ahjumma...

Also @ramonathepest is right about subs being owned by the ones who made them. It's intellectual property so things get tricky when you start trying to give it away and allow other people to make a profit out of a derivative of someone else's labor. The only reason Viki gets away with it is because all of the subbers are volunteers so they automatically forfeit any rights to their work. That's why shows on Viki that use Kocowa-given subs are English only.

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I have to give kudos to Viki for teaching their subbers how to do the timing right though. I notice sometimes other sites only concentrate on getting all the words on the screen at once so sometimes it ruins a punchline or a good dig one character makes to the other character. Sometimes you need the pause in words, just as the actor paused, for the impact of what they just laid on the other person.

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Happy Friday Beanies!

I was prepared to get sucked into another C drama until Reach of Sincerity pulled me back into kdrama world. How cute is Yoo In Na? I have a big aversion towards female characters like Oh Yoon Seo but In Na's a hoot! She makes me laugh and that one quality which always endears me to an actor.

However, what I want to talk about in this week's OT isn't about Reach of Sincerity. It's The Light In Your Eyes. I'm a bit baffled by the show like I am not sure what's it trying to tell. Maybe it is taking its time but I got a bit impatient, knowing that there's only 12 eps.

If the show is about ageing then I think there are others which did it better. I am half a century old and can attest to the fact that no matter how I age on the outside, my mind is not very different from a twenty year old. At least that's how I feel. The difference is that in the show Hye Ja aged overnight. It's all physical as far as changes are concerned. Yet, when watching Kim Hye Ja the veteran actress, I noticed there were very marked facial expressions which she makes that shout "old". I wonder as we age, do we make these expressions?

I've always enjoy Kim Hye Ja's works but I suppose expecting her to rid of these trademarks is unrealistic. Should I expect her to act like Han Ji Min or for Han Ji Min to act like Kim Hye Ja? Back to my earlier question - do we change our facial expressions as we age? If no, I am trying to imagine how Kim Hye Ja was when she was in her twenties.
Am I even making sense?

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Well, I dont roll my eyes at people anymore, lol. I'm probably a bit better at controlling my expressions than I was 20 years ago.
I do mostly still feel the same inside though. I do think I have a bit more confidence and am more open minded. When I was younger I think I saw things as more black & white.

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My face is very transparent which I think it's a flaw. I could never hide my emotions and still can't.

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I dont think it's a flaw. Nothing wrong with being a transparent person.

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Eh...not in the corporate world, haha.

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Interesting what you say about always feeling like you are in your 20's. It's because you brain matures until about 25 years of age and that's the brain you have for the rest of your life. You can have more experiences that may contribute to your world view or make you more mellow, but your brain chemistry and maturity doesn't really change from that point. I'm interested to see the next couple episodes as well to see if there is a dichotomy between the two actresses and how believable this is. I'm intrigued at this point, but I wonder if there were geriatric "experts" that may have been consulted to help the actors with their portrayals. Did they even take the time to do this? I have patients in their 80's that still care about how they look, go to the nail shop and hair salon weekly, and they are just like my 25 year olds. It's really interesting.

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So that's the scientific explanation! Thanks @ally-le

For the show, I don't think they gave much thought on making the two actresses mirror each other, much less consult experts. For a start, can't Hye Ja wear a wig that looks like Han Ji Min's hairstyle and vice versa? Hye Ja aged overnight literally and she got a haircut while she was sleeping. Ha!

Older folks are just limited physically but that is actually the biggest frustration. Your mind and soul don't age. You want to run, skip and continue to explore the world but your body just doesn't cooperate.

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Hi there! Yes, I was surprised with The Light in Your Eyes that unlike other shows where 2 actors play the same person, the actors in this show did not try to behave more the same way. I saw that the aged Hye Ja did try to act younger, but not really like she tried to act like her younger self, or only slightly.

Usually I'd be praising the actors for being able to mimic each other's mannerisms or some similarities or facial expressions, but not so much with this show.

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I thought hard about it but can't recall any actor who successfully pulled off a similar role. There are probably more examples of gender body switching roles and that might be easier.

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That's very interesting about the brain maturing until about 25 years of age, because that's the age I identify with. Wow. ;-)

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I just see this as healing drama, and don't dwell on why KHJ has different whatever from her younger version. But I am surely want to know how they are going to wrap up/resolve this aging stuff .

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I'm sure she's going to return to her younger body by the end of the series and I suspect it's going to come at the price of her father's life. The impression I've been getting about this show so far is that they want to tell a story about how you shouldn't waste or take your time in life for granted.

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Yes, I did think that is one message but it might be more and I certainly hope so.

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I agree, there is no way the father will let that trade-off stand; her years for his life.

Btw, I am in awe of how Ahn Nae-sang is killing the role. He says so much with Just his face.

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Yeah, she bought him more time by giving up hers so it's only natural that the reverse has to happen for her to go back to normal.

I tear up in every scene he has with Hye Ja. I'm pretty sure Ahn Nae-sang will not survive to the end of this series and I will be a bawling mess when that happens :(

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i can attest to having "old facial expressions" because i am old -- but honestly, when i look in the mirror it looks as though i am frowning because of my facial lines and sagging skin.

i am not making a frown, to speak of -- i'm just merely looking straight into the mirror, but my old skin makes me look as though i am not in a good mood. does this make sense?

i have to smile to make my face not look grouchy... and i have furrows between my brows that are indented and won't relax... would love to get collagen fillers, but seeing those hollywood actresses look blown up with puffed out cheeks (lifts the jowels) is absolutely frightening...

my 25 year old brain trapped within this old body has to remind myself to smile slightly all the time so people won't think i'm angry or sad all the time.

but how to undo all these extra post-menopausal pounds...
*whoops, has to remind self to smile again as furrows and grimace overtakes face again...*

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Now I am really curious how many of us “Beanies” are older, say 50+? In reading various comments I get the impression that many Beanies are in their early 20’s/30’s?

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i am certain we are in the minority... but as @ally-le stated about our 25 year old minds -- we can SQUEEE with the best of the young 'uns!
*winks*

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@keiko KeikoAnn,
60+ Boomer here. I can't believe I'm this age. I'm still bopping to New Wave and heavy metal in my mind's ear.

I agree with you about Beanie demographics.

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@egads February 22, 2019 at 7:07 PM

From what I've experienced, the Questioning Routine and Insecurity Circuit come factory installed in the Humanity Module. They're backwardly compatible and hot-swappable. When you upgrade, just remember to update the BIOS and reboot. ;-)

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I too am a 60+boomer who physically feel the years, but emotionally I'm still at about 15 years old with all the questions and insecurities.
So I squee with everyone and listen to Kpop and dance around the house.

Until I need to write to some beanie - "it's okay, things will work out - been there done that" kind of comforting.

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*raises hand

Same, but I'm not a boomer, I'm Gen X. Do the questions and insecurities ever go away. Asking for a friend.

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@egads - I don't think they ever go away. What happens is you grow and let go of some of those insecurities, then life throws a curve-ball and you respond with "wait, what the hell?..."
and you get past that as you grow and learn.
But mostly I always feel like I'm behind somewhere.....
in other words, they change as you grow and learn. Hope that helps. It's the only thing I can figure out.

That, and I'm so glad to NOT live in St Paul anymore!

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"I'm still at about 15 years old with all the questions and insecurities."

So very true! I remember my 90 year old grandmother explaining how she saw herself as 18 in her internal mirror, and I now (at 60+) understand how that's possible.

Young at heart is more than a state of mind, its our reality

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I will turn 60 this year. I've been watching Kdrama for at least 6 years, maybe more. And yes, I feel like I'm about 25. I am often mistaken for being 40, but I can't claim I've done anything to deserve it, just picked the right grandmother who looked young her whole life.

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I just started receiving retirement money this year, myself, and the image staring back at me in the mirror is my father's face, not my own. The poignancy if this series for the older set is sometimes it does indeed feel like you went to bed 25 years old and woke up the next morning over 60.

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You are absolutely right!

In recent years, I have been alarmed at how fast time flies. It doesn't seem too long ago that I was 18 and now, it's almost triple! I don't know if time may feel like its slowing down because I'm entering a phase whereby life's pace is supposed to be slower.

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I say we form a 50+ support group and tackle Dear My Friends after Radiant is done! @pakalanapikake @spazmo @mike @newgirl @stpauligurl @keiko @egads @linda-palapala I'm inviting you here as well!

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@beantown, you'll need to remind me because it's likely I won't remember.

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@egads HAHAAHAHAHAA!❤❤

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Oh, @beantown I would love to be part of that gathering - but you will need to remind me too...
Also, it's so nice to know I'm not the only umm 'ripened' beanie here.

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I'm not a boomer, but this thread is making me *just. so. happy.* you don't even know. i can barely explain it, but I am just sitting here, reading and smiling and smiling and smiling. I love beanies <3 I'm so glad we're all of sorts and ages and experiences and everythings <3 <3 <3

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@anothernicole Love ❤❤❤❤❤right back at you.

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@beantown February 25, 2019 at 10:43 AM
cc: @spazmo, @mike, @newgirl, @stpauligurl, @keiko, @egads, @linda-palapala, @noobita

Might I suggest that we call ourselves the Has-Beanies (has-beens)? The Over-The-Hill Gang is already taken. ;-)

I watched only the first episode or two of DEAR MY FRIENDS when it aired. That was at the very start of my live-watching and kibitzing career here on DB, and I already had my hands full with OH HAE-YOUNG AGAIN. My Mom had died a few years earlier after 15 years of probable Alzheimer's, and I just wasn't in a place to be reminded of that. I still might not be. But now I have a bunch of Kdrama cronies who are also my contemporaries. This might actually be a good thing for me to do. Thank you!

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How about the "Bean-there-done-that" Beanies!

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@stpauligurl February 28, 2019 at 12:13 PM

"Bean-there-done-that" Beanies -- I like it!

Why limit ourselves to only one name?! This is great. ;-)

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Wow, I love all the responses to my question and the suggestion @beantown for a 50+ support group! Count me in, but like @egads and @stpauligurl, someone will have to remind me! I vote for “HAS-BEANIES” so clever, PakalanaPikake, always enjoy reading your comments. I need a support group to help me keep “young at heart”. I also get a feeling that there are lurkers out there who are in the 50+ range, come-out/come-out! Oh, I have to admit I am closer to 70 than 50! YIKES, that hurts!

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age is just a number! remember that we are all still 25 inside!
*hugs*

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@keiko,

Aw, shucks. Thanks! I figured a pun would be nice.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a fair few 50+ lurkers who hang back from getting entangled in shipping wars, drooling over idols young enough to be their grandkids [no way in hell is that whippersnapper my oppa!], or expressing an opinion that runs counter to a vocal majority who sound too young to have encountered certain situations in their own lives, etc., etc.

I firmly believe that each Beanie draws upon their own life experiences when watching Kdramas. Those of us who have been on earth longer can sometimes interpret situations from a different point of view than our younger confreres simply because we've already been there, done that ourselves, or personally know someone who's had a similar experience.

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You've got company, @spazmo. Gravity is not our friend. Harumph!

My brunette frizz is now tinged with moonlight. I earned every single silver strand.

Like you, I've got deep furrows between my brows, too -- and have had them since I was in my 20s. I can chalk up my furrows to vanity. I hated having to wear glasses starting in 7th grade because of nearsightedness and astigmatism. They made me look like the dorky bookworm I was. On the other hand, it was really cool to be able to see individual leaves on trees for the first time. The next year I had to get braces, which resulted in years of dental pain and headaches -- and unsmiling yearbook pictures through most of high school.

Rhetorical question: Isn't it nuts that nearsighted people have to pick out eyeglass frames when they can't even see whether they look any good in them? Nowadays there's probably some app that allows you to virtually try on frames using your computer. Back in the Lower Devonian I had to wing it. With predictable results. ;-)

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oh yes, i started wearing glasses at age 10. putting on frames and trying to see what they look like with your face 6" from the mirror was very hard! is that why the furrows, from squinting?
; )

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Methinks the causes of my furrows are squinting, worrying, and Terminal Seriousness. -- I'm the noona/unni. ;-) [That's a wink, not a squint.]

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I had near perfect eyesight in one eye and the other was a lazy eye which is uncorrected. Because I had no myopia, I am terribly long sighted. I am blind without my reading glasses so I have no fewer than 5 pairs. Still, there are occasions, I don't whip them out and I squint. I squint very very hard which ended with more furrows!

It's also harder to put on make up. How do you apply eyeshadow when there's glasses? If I stand further from the mirror, it's difficult to apply. When I stand nearer, I need glasses which obstruct the application. So mostly, I do a lousy job.

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Please pardon the following rant on eyeglasses. I want to bring it up for fellow Old Beanies who may be tussling with similar issues. It's also a heads-up to our esteemed younger Beanies who have yet to experience certain processes of maturation – and beyond. If we unnis/orabeonis, noonas/hyungs, and halmonis/halabeojis don't clue them in, who will?

As always, this is only my experience. Your mileage may vary.– Aunty PakalanaPikake ;-)

Dear @outofthisworld,
cc: @spazmo

I know exactly what you mean about putting on eye makeup. Or maybe I don't, because I can see well enough without my specs to slather on the war paint, although I no longer bother. – When we renovated our bathroom 15 years ago, I installed a lighted extensible magnifying mirror for this purpose. But with your farsightedness, that wouldn't help. Methinks you would actually need a magnifying mirror for focusing on your eyes, but with a (removable?) large, clear lens in front of it to counter your extreme presbyopia. I think. – At present, do you close your far-sighted eye as you apply makeup to it and watch with your 20-20 eye? And then tilt your head back to peek from your 20-20 eye as you doll it up? The logistics must make you wish you were an octopus with a lorgnette.

Aw, you reminded me of my little next-door neighbor when I was growing up who was diagnosed with "lazy eye." Joey had to wear a patch over one eye for months, or so it seemed. He wore glasses later, but apparently got over it as he grew up. From what I just looked up, lazy eye is a vision-processing condition that supposedly can be addressed at any age.

Would wearing a contact lens be of help to you now?

I ask because I finally broke down and used soft contacts for a spell once I got into my early 30s. It was an amazing revelation to finally have peripheral vision. But I had to get over my fear and loathing of poking myself in the eye to insert them. Yuck!

However, I got fed up with the cleaning and disinfecting folderol because when this night owl finally would get tired at night, I was ready to drop like a rock. I had to stay awake to do the proper cleaning procedures. So I went back to wearing glasses. I could just take them off and hop into bed. Years later I took a stab at disposable contacts, but by then I didn't have the patience to stick with them.

- Continued -

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I use only one eye but both are far sighted. I think a magnifying mirror is the answer but it's not one of those things people usually have or I just don't notice.

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i have to take off my spec's, well -- it's impossible to put eyeliner and mascara on with glasses, hellooo.... but, even for lip liner, i have to take my glasses off... because i am nearsighted (can't see the big E on the charts) but am now am also in need of "readers" - or progressive lenses for closeup vision...

i can't do contacts anymore, used to/had to to stop my progressive nearsightedness when i was 15... but allergies and now old age/dry eyes prevent me from being able to use contact lenses.

at my age, it doesn't matter much how badly i apply eyeliner or lipliner, does it....
*weeps a little, but it's okay*

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@outofthisworld
February 23, 2019 at 6:21 PM

This is very similar to our mirror, which has a wall plug -- as well as a built-in AC outlet on the mounting plate. I've seen models with normal glass and 10x magnification on the flip side. I bought ours at a plumbing supply store in 2004 -- but now you can get them by mail order. However, I would advise checking it out in person to ensure that the magnification meets your needs, and that the mirrors are distortion-free. I hope this helps. ;-)

https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/1/1/615469-jerdon-8-inch-round-lighted-wall-mount-mirror-chrome.html

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@spazmo

I don't know if age got anything to do with it but I have no patience with make up. Come to think of it, I never had.

I am super slipshod at making up. I remember my ex-colleague whom I used to give a ride to work, had to tell me there's a patch on my face which I missed out the foundation. That was when I was in my twenties. I am probably making similar blunders, ha! But I don't really care. As long as it's not too obvious and no one is giving me strange looks!

I am the type who need to be able fix my face and hair in like 5 minutes flat and zoom out of the house. I rather spend time catching a few more winks.

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@pakalanapikake

Thanks for the link. It looks fab!

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@outofthisworld, normally i do not wear makeup unless going to a wedding, funeral or community fundraiser event...

but i once heard someone call my name at the grocery store, so i turned, recognized the neighbor woman to say HELLO, but saw that i literally SCARED HER because the last time she saw me was at one of those functions...

i didn't think i wore alot of makeup, but apparently when i do people do not think i'm on the brink of death or dying...

: D -- wait, i should type : (

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@spazmo I turned grey in my 30's dark eyeliner always looked too artificial on me, so
I never used it unless it was full out warpaint... but I have a dark silver eyeliner pencil that is very forgiving and looks gorgeous.

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Part 2 of 2 - Eyeglasses

When presbyopia set in, I became frustrated with “invisible” trifocals (which I needed for driving so I could see the dashboard, read a map, and see street signs, house numbers, and distant traffic signals). They were a PITA and made me feel as if I were looking in a fun house mirror. I'm immensely grateful to have met a wonderful optician who took the time to answer my questions and explain the optics of eyeglasses to me. She confirmed my suspicions that: (1) without the lines it was difficult to know where to look to focus; (2) the near-distant focal area was too small; (3) plastic lenses were not as "sharp" as glass, and (4) did indeed distort color – which drove me batty. I have acute color discrimination, and I could see that color was off.

She further explained that there's a reason for small eyeglass frames: to minimize the areas of distortion because of the trade-offs between materials and manufacturing – and expecting one device to do too many things. Jack of all trades, master of none. Many people don't want lines in their bifocals and trifocals because it makes them look old. Forget that. I need those lines so I know where to look, dang it!

It was a relief to know that I wasn't nuts, and that there are many trade-offs involved in engineering and grinding multifocal lenses. I purposely switched to glass bifocals with lines so I could see where to look, and it made life so much easier – but necessitated different pairs of glasses for driving & watching TV, and reading & working at the PC. Recalling WWII history, I have used aviator lenses for driving & sunglasses since age 19 because they afford the largest unobstructed peripheral view. If they were good enough for P-51 Mustang pilots in dogfights with Me-109s, they were fine for me flying down Interstate 80.

Another thing my optician revealed: it is possible to get a wider bifocal window than the standard default, but you have to know to ask for it. The wider bifocal window gives me a broader field of near-distant peripheral vision to see more of the dashboard and side mirror while driving.

Anti-glare coatings and polarization also relieved eyestrain while driving, reading hard copy, and working at the PC. But they don't last forever.

By then (circa 2004, IIRC) there were only 2 optical labs left in the USA capable of fabricating the glass bifocal lenses I needed. For me it was worth the 2-week wait, and yielded superior results. Call me old-fashioned, but plastic lenses are nowhere near as good as glass, which is what I grew up with. Younger folks just don't know because they've never had the opportunity to use them. Yes, they weigh more on your nose. But for me, the optical properties are far superior. This old tech trumps new-fangled plastic by a country mile. (I imagine it will become unavailable when the last highly-skilled craftsman retires.)
-30-

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Generally, I don't like talking about myself, but I will say I avoid looking in a mirror - it helps me pretend I'm not that old. Besides, I have a 20-something daughter (I'm old enough to be her grandma). When I wear my Zelda baseball cap I get lots of comments from 20-somethings in stores because they're shocked an old lady would know Legend of Zelda.

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I am in the same boat. When I was young, people told me I look fierce. Now, I just look angry and grouchy. It doesn't help that I am very expressive with my face. These habits probably gave me more furrows, lines and whatnots.

Talking about non-invasive cosmetic procedures, we must look at the asia for more inspiration. Hollywood celebs make me think America likes to upsize every thing and not in a good way. Bee stung lips or fuller lips are supposed to look sexy and not like one is having a horrible allergic reaction and need to go to the emergency room.

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You wouldn't happen to be on the Scorpio end of the spectrum, would you?

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