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Open Thread #615

Happy Friday everyone!

Here is your Open Thread, which is here for you to chat about anything you want, whether it be drama-related or not. Nothing’s off-topic here! Spoilers may be rife, so proceed accordingly.

 
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Happy Friday everyone! I might vent out a little because it seems I nearly had sth I wanted but it doesn't feel alright and maybe not exactly sth I should take. It is frustrating because it has been a struggle (more so mentally) reaching here but I don't want to step in for several reasons. Anyways I remember a few beanies trying for post grad applications. Help this sister out guys if you know anything! Hopefully I'll get out of this dead end box of confusion some day.

On the drama front, I loveeeed Go Go Squid. Nothing extraordinary. Total fluff but with a lot of heart. It is always good to have shows one can talk about and decipher every angle like My Ajusshi but at times you just need to sit back and relax. It depended heavily on the actors and their chemistry but I really liked that they had a dedicated message in the form of struggle of this generation with new age careers and how they are looked down upon by the society. I have a new celebrity crush there---Li Xiannnn!

When the Devil Calls your name was great as expected but surprisingly also light. Maybe I thought it will follow the heaviness of Life on Mars but I like that it has those light moments. I am not that impressed with the lead actress but JKH and PSW are killing it.

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There's something very charismatic about Li Xian, isn't it?

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Ohhhh, i Miss My Ajusshi 😍😍😍😍😍😍
😅😌
By the way, I also want to watch go go squid... I need TIME!

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Hello Beanies,
how have you been doing? I hope you’re all doing well. Even though I haven’t been active in the past 7 months I still think about this wonderful community and I’m still lurking at the Fanwall from time to time.

A little update about what’s been going on in my life.

As I posted few months back I opened my own restaurant in Prague back in January. The first four months were the toughest and I still can’t believe I actually managed it both physically and mentally. But gradually everything became easier and more efficient because we know what needs to be done. The restaurant is both loved and doing well financially.

We have a lot of Korean customers who love Vietnamese cuisine, they’re especially crazy about our Phở. Korean women do have beautiful skin. They’re very fair and most of them have smooth and enviable complexions. What I found most surprising was that k-dramas didn’t exaggerate about Korean women eating A LOT. I always rolled my eyes when female leads stuffed their mouths and ate so much food. That’s why I was so surprised when I watched with my own eyes what amount of food they could eat. They usually eat a double portion compared to their boyfriends or eating their boyfriends’ meal.

Also a lot of Vietnamese Americans come to my restaurant and especially the younger generation always look at me with such amazement when I speak to them in fluent Vietnamese even though I’ve been living in th Czech Republic for over 25 years. It’s quite amazing to see how the Vietnamese in the US consider themselves Americans while Vietnamese living in the CR refused to be called Czech even though they sometimes live here over 40 years.

Overall it’s been a big year for me so far. I started my own business and thanks to my busy schedule I finally lost the remaining weight that I gained post two babies. I didn’t have to hit the gym or go on diet for a single day. All the initial stress and physical activities helped me lost weight even without trying. I gained 25kg during each pregnancy, so I gained 50kg (110 pounds) in total within 3 years. Because of my extreme weight gain I have quite a loose tummy pouch even though I’m at my pre-baby weight. I was told that even exercising won’t help me achieve flat tummy because I have too much loose skin. Have any of you undergone belly liposuction? Is it worth it? Should I think about it? Was the recovery painful? I’m just over 30 and my saggy tummy makes me uncomfortable so I’ve been thinking about it lately.

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Congratulation! And I wish you lasting success. I hope I could visit your restaurant someday, Prague is not that far from where I live :)

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+1 for being a boss.

Better being an entrepreneur in present world. Being a boss is better than being bossed around by others.(my motto)
That slight emphasis on fair skin.
Double the food maybe is due to recency bias.
Maybe all women eat a lot or maybe we all pay too much attention on what others eat.

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@cherryinbloom I must have missed the post about your restaurant opening! Congratulations! Glad to know things are going well. May you continue to have much success in the future.

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Congrats on your restaurant! F&B is so tough and I am amazed by how you started and now have a thriving, well loved business.

I've not gone for belly liposuction but if you have to do it, make sure the surgeon is well qualified. I may be stating the obvious. However, even in a reasonably well regulated place where I'm from, there are fatalities in recent years involving seemingly simple procedures like this.

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Congratulations! What a great achievement both business and tummy wise 😃

I have no advise re lipo but I know a few people who have done a ‘tummy tuck’ - apparently it is not lipo - and have had great results!

I missed you btw! Happy to see you back here chingu!

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Congratulations!
I'd love to see the pictures of your restaurant and the food on fanwall. When you have time please post it @cherryinbloom

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Congratulations on the success of your new restaurant!

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Congratulations on a successful opening, and best wishes for you continued success!

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Congratulations on your store opening and also weight loss! May you have continuous success!! 🥳

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Congratulations! I love Vietnamese food myself! I would eat Pho anywhere in the world, esp in Europe!

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Congratulations!!! I want to re visit Prag one day (sadly I don't know if this year), but you have to give me the address of your restaurant so that I go when I am there!!! 🙋
I will be a customer!!!!!!

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Congratulations.
Prague looks like such a beautiful place. That is interesting about the Vietnamese patrons you meet. I wonder if it is a generational thing or a move vs being born somewhere.

If I moved somewhere else at this age I'm not sure that I'd ever feel that I wasnt American.

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Hi Beverly, here's an off-topic question: did you end up having bubble tea or bibimbap?

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Lol. I had an iced chai bubble tea, but didnt have time to get the bibimbap. But in a week or two i plan to be around a korean restaurant that has it on their menu. Hopefully with those long spoons and everything.

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Yay! One down and one to go!

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What’s the name of your restaurant? I can’t promise I’ll go to Prague, my daughter’s violin teacher is still looking into taking her students there, but we are always looking for good Viet food!!! Congratulations on the restaurant! Wow, that’s a lot of weight you’ve lost! And I think doing some cosmetic surgery is not a bad thing especially since you’ve lost all that weight. The tricky part is keeping it off! 😉. I’m very proud of how you’re doing! Dramas will always be here for you and we will too!

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Go even without the violin teacher 😄😄
Beautiful city, really...

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Congratulations!!! And if you don't mind, share the name of your restaurant, please... I have friends in Prague and visit regularly... and would be happy to meet a fellow Beanie... and taste your cooking 😊

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Glad to hear you're doing well. "Korean women eating A LOT" -that is so funny (I blame the big spoon they got used to use). Also interesting to hear Vietnamese in the US and Czech- I know I'm treated as Korean in US, but treated as foreigner in Korea when I'm there. I don't know who I am lol

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You could really give us the name of your restaurant. I have few friends there willing to go to try your food. Congratulations! It's a tough business in Prague, glad it's doing well!!

I gained 30 kg and it's hard to get rid of it. But I think you can find some exercises for your skin because it's an aftereffect of loosing weight fast with little exercise. The skin couldn't get as much time as it needed to shrink. Check YouTube or those gyms which czech celebrities are using and you can get there some tips of good plastic surgeon to remove that skin. I don't think you need liposuction either, because there's no fat anymore.

Even if I would live form the rest of my life in France I wouldn't consider myself french. But my kids yes although they're half and half so I can understand Czechoslovak Vietnamese People. Mum's cousin got married to a Vietnamese guy and it was a big no from his parents and their son is now a really tall handsome man. There was an interview recently somewhere in the newspapers with children of Vietnamese parents in Slovakia and they're telling about two cultures crashing into each other and that they have to have "bipolar" life because although they're Vietnamese they consider themselves Slovak as well. Well that's understandable.

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Congratulations on taking such a big risk to follow your dream - and having it successful!!!!!

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Good morning and happy Friday everyone!! I'll post another comment later with my actual watch history and things, but just wanted to say hi now!^^

Also, question. If you had to be stuck in any drama for the food you saw them eat NOT the Let's Eat franchise, which drama would it be?

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happy Friday! I can't remember the name of it but there used to be an old drama about kimchi -- they even gave a new recipe at the end of each episode... can't remember any of the story or characters but I vividly remember all the different kinds of kimchi. And I am definitely an all-kind-of-pickles-but-mainly-kimchi lover. Several dramas make me crave ramen (prosecutor princess comes to mind for this) and bibimbap (the big bowl kind that you mix and eat with a big spoon together with your bff). The foodie episodes in HdL are pretty good too

Grrr now I am very hungry. Off to find some snacks.

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Kimchi family! I loved that drama...

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Kimchi Family is a very lovely drama, soothing and healing! Appa of the triplets is the chef and male lead.

Highly recommended!

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Oh my gosh that sounds like a great drama. Haha I'm still hungry, mostly craving seaweed? And ramen too ahahahaha^^

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Wok of Love.

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Yep, that's the one.

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Oh my heck... I'm so sorry, I had literally just woken up when I wrote this, I think I must have been hungry (but now you know what I do first thing Friday morning lolol)

Thinking about it now, I think I'd go with Strongest Deliveryman... I love jjajangmyun and tangsuyuk. ^^

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I recently watched an actress in a 2006 role then ten years later in a 2016 role, and in both roles the character seemed to love jjajangmyun more than her boyfriend.

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Reply 1988! I think they eat in every episode 🍲🥣🍚

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That reminds me- mom in the show always made huge portion of dish - you remember? I don't remember which one(of 3) but I read the art director lady actually made all those foods in the kitchen.

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Well... Duk Seon's mom made large portions whenever husband got a good pay. But I think you're referring to Jung Hwan's mom.

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One of the older Hong sister dramas Warm and cozy, which I loved and they had new recipes after each episode.

Then a super cute movie called Little forest! (It is extremely adorable)

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That film had Jin Ki-joo playing the best friend, the actress who played the young news anchor in 'Misty' and also the geeky lead in 'The secret life of my secretary'. Its almost impossible to recognize her from one role to the next.

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She was also the female lead in come and hug me!

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“DaeJangGeum” or the quirky story of her descendants “DaeJangGeum is Watching”.

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DJG is watching - I actually wrote down some cooking tips, especially ones you buy in the convenient store, hoping I can try someday.

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Hi, @cozybooks!

Early in my Kdrama watching career, I became fascinated with the food in THE KING'S DAUGHTER, SOO BAEK HYANG. The orphaned sisters end up working as servers and scullery maids at an eatery in a nearby town run by "Soup Lady." I have no idea what kind of soup she served, but even ultra-picky Seja Jo Hyun-jae discovered he liked it, which shocked all of his men. Soup Lady ends up accompanying Seja back to the palace because he likes her cooking so much, and at various times throughout the rest of the show, we see her working in the royal kitchen and eating dinner at home outside the palace with her friends who are undercover spies. Seo Hyun-jin's title character ate like a horse, so there was lots of food -- especially when Seja Myongnong observed what a powerful motivator it was for his lady spy -- who would do anything for chicken. The whole chicken cooked in broth with ginseng, herbs, and what looked like dried dates looked absolutely scrumptious. Also, the country folks were always digging up some kind of big white roots [at least about a foot long] in the woods and fields (I don't think it was daikon radish) and munching on them. I was curious as to which plants they were.

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hahahahaha now I want to watch! That's so cool! The chicken soup sounds like seollangtang, it's good!!^^

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@cozybooks,
Yes, now I know what it was, but back then I did not. Beware: the chow in this show made me hungry. And don't get me started on the food in the palace. Seolnan whips up a batch of rice punch for the king, just like her mother used to make, and it brings back old memories.

There's a hilarious scene in which Seo Hyun-jin feigns insanity to get away from two strangers on horseback in the woods. She addresses incognito Seja as "husband" and proceeds to chide him for not bringing the chicken he was supposed to fetch. It's a great scene -- and marks the acquisition of her nickname "Chicken Girl." Bodyguard Kang-bok (Moo Jin-sung / Yeo Ui-joo) is terrific as he gives his diagnosis after his boss finally manages to extricate himself from the madwoman's grasp. Later, her kid sister treats her to her favorite seollangtang at the palace -- with umpteen million beautiful banchan. And there's a sumptuous banquet for the queen's birthday.

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There's SWDBS. Their food looks amazing. Oh, there's plenty but can't think of any...

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The massive communal bowl of rice her mother makes!!

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Ashes - 2nd day.
Awesome 100 from Steven Smith. Those who know gonna understand it.
Minami Hamabe - Kimono Cool. New movie trailer cool. Trying to capture the market.

Kdrama 2nd half better than 1st half. As expected.

Jug Kyung Ho - quality. Tomorrow rating.
Created small Gif Meme of Hotel. Tomorrow.

Mom-Son conflict still at play - and to think i am used to discuss ideology of various fictional characters of Naruto, One Piece (and many more) manga with her.

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Hello everyone.

Who is watching what these days? I can only seem to get myself to watch Hotel Del Luna. Does anyone realize that if IU was exchanged with a guy, and YJG for girl, it would still make sense? In fact it would be one of those been there, done that k-dramas.

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I haven't seen Hotel Del Luna yet (I like to wait for dramas to be finished before watching) but I love gender reversal roles or throwing out gender norms.

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Same! Boyfriend does that too.

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Moment at Eighteen also has my attention and then I go to My First Love to recover because Moment at Eighteen is so sad.

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Search: WWW is also a 'gender reversal' show. Its the women who are in power (even the Unicorn USA head) and men who are the objects of desire. Even the main villain is a woman in her 60s.

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I just realized, it'd be just like Goblin with Chan Seong as Eun Tak (bc he goes around saying sweet things that melt Man Weol's heart) and Man Weol as the Goblin (bc she's always wanted to die but now that she can, she's scared. Also she's paying the price for her bloody sins).
I just don't know how there are so many similarities but Hotel de Luna still seems vastly different.

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I went to a lecture where they talked about "story types" and classifications and some say there are only 4 story types & nothing new can be invented because we revolve around a pattern, or maybe it comes from a human nature. some even say there is only 1 story type: there is a character, and whatever it is the character wants. everything around this is decoration... so in the end that´s why stories seem to repeat ona another...

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What an interesting idea! Now I want to know more about these 'story types'.

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Is anyone gonna say anything about YJG's very sharp cheekbones in this drama? I'm almost afraid his costars would cut themselves on those. I just miss his baby face!

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Hi, great weekend to everyone, I sleepwalked through this week due to weather and spent way too much time online because we have drought like time at work with everyone being on vacation.
This week I had no idea I will be this affected by drama, but AT EIGHTEEN really made me overthink every little aspect of the show, and those young actors are madly talented. On the other hand meandering through drama sites and forums I couldn't help but notice all the "buts" in defence of Cha Eun Woo acting: he is young, still learning, have to act with professional actors, unpolished diamond, he will get better as drama progress etc. etc. it seems that as long as we like actor as a person we are able to excuse many shortcomings.
In other news I bought myself Yoga Wheel and promptly managed to hurt myself using, and now have to take break from yoga to heal a bit.
And I just found out that DS:60 episode 11 title contain major spoiler to ep. 10 cliffhanger, and I can't find it anywhere :]

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Hope you heal soon and feel much better!

Definitely looking forward to the next DS:60 episode!

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Someone once said - Anything before But and however is just thin air, the real view is aired "The After".
The other -ve guy looks more healthy than the male lead. Except that i don't have much good to say about this below avg. show.

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Re: Cha Eun Woo. Considering how stacked that cast is, he was gonna be on the short end of the stick. I don't think he is horrible and so far is holding up.

I think he is doing better than his work in Gangham.

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I thought that he was slightly better in Gangnam.

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I vote for much better than Gangnam, which I couldn't watch because he was so awkward. But in Rookie, he's lost a lot of the self-consciousness (the third eye) that's death to an actor, and he seems to be enjoying himself with a great deal more confidence. He's still a bit raw (and maybe a touch too pretty? Sometimes it's not good to look too plastic) but he has improved and can only get better! (Crosses fingers)

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RE: Cha Eun Woo

I was going to say something about visuals/idol actors and stans, but I won't fall into that trap.

I think it also depends about the likeability of the character itself. If a not so great actor plays a badly written character, it's hard to even stomach their scenes and better to fast-forward. Bad feelings would unfortunately bleed through and there will be much grumbling about leads, screen time, love interests, etc. It's easier to tolerate and even love a good character even when you notice some bad acting and associate that likability with the actor.

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I think that likeability play the biggest role for casual viewer/me;) stans are obviously something else.

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Hope you heal soon- sorry but I laughed on "I bought myself Yoga Wheel and promptly managed to hurt myself using" because there was a guy at my work who bought weight thing and hurt himself using it. I feel ironic?
Cha Eun-woo: I was annoyed at first, but now I got used to his acting and even enjoying his character he is portraying.
DS:60: Can't wait to watch next ep.

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Happy Friday Beanies. I just want to say may you find some joy in the things you do this weekend.

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Aww, Happy Friday to you too and have a great weekend also! :)

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Thank you!! You as well. I have a date this weekend, wish me luck! ^^

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Good Luck !!! :)

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All the best!

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ooooh a date!
Is this a first date?
Good luck and have lots of fun!

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You too!

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You too @larelle79!

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Hi Everyone! ..... I hope you are all doing well today.

Nokdu Flower - Finally finished this and I must say this was simply a fantastic drama. Yes, it was brutal, tragic and sad, but it was a very well told story. Definitely one of this year's standouts.

Doctor Detective - I tried this (one episode), but I'm afraid things are not going to work out with this one.

Hotel Del Luna - This keeps me thoroughly entertained. Someone needs to take care of Guest from Room #13 though, because she's causing havoc in Seoul.

Designated Survivor: 60 Days - Secretary Cha or Secretary Han. Say it ain't so! ..... I almost want to say either one of them would be too obvious, but who knows. We'll see.

Justice - Wow, I have to hand it to the show. Just when you thought no one could be more dangerous than Chairman Song , we get introduced to Tak Soo-ho. I knew something was off about Tak Soo-ho when I first saw him, but then we see the scene where he's in the hospital room of a young woman, asking her about the severity of her blindness as he's snipping off orchid blossoms and getting oh-so-close to her face with sharp scissors in hand. Uh oh!

That's all for now. Everyone take care and have a great Friday!

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I am on the flip side, I am digging Doctor Detective (it really does flow past episode 2) and Justice ( I think it is trying to be to clever for it's on good and is a bit convoluted as a result).

Park Jin Hee is great and you would not expect anything less from Bong Tae Gyu.

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I will agree that Justice is a bit convoluted .... unnecessarily so, but there you have it.

I do like Park Jin-hee (and the rest of the cast actually), but I just couldn't get into it. Perhaps I'll return to it at a later time. I'm glad you're enjoying it though!

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Some of the directorial choices in Justice are just amazing. I don't think it's too convoluted but maybe it's because i also watched Mr Temporary and Longest Day in ChangAn. After those two, nothing seems convoluted to me.

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Should I watch either of those two, Carole? I watch k dramas for rom coms I can't get in the English language, so tend to avoid legal shows and doctor shows etc that I can get in English. But the occasional historical, or just a really really good show will attract me as well. I've been hearing good things about Longest Day.

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General Nokdu manseh! 😄

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I dropped Justice because this meandering of the plot to make it look more complex than it is tried my patience too much. But I watch/ed all the rest.

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Best description I have read and I agree with you 100%.

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Omg definitely say it ain't so wrt Secretary Cha or Han, I was literally railing at the screen as the reveals rolled out LOL like clutching my boyfriend lamenting that neither cld be the one, why must it always be the characters you like that break your heart 😢😢 hopefully it rolls right back around with ep 11 and Show was just toying w us the whole time, maybe that's why there wasn't a next ep preview??

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Well, this series seems to be following the plot from the American freshman season so, unless they change it...and I don't wanna tell ya.

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Haha yeah I didn't watch the American one but my bf did, so he's not telling me either! Seeing as not all the plot points are directky imported over though one can still hope...

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agree @ Doctor Detective... I just couldn't quite do it, haha

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Tak Soo-ho is a total sociopath. Justice is really a good drama. slow-moving but well-written. And so many characters are important and one feels as if one knows them. It's a world that is created and each individual feels fleshed-out.

I couldn't do Doctor Detective either. I'm not good at being harrowed and child custody issues with evil chaebol exes are my kryptonite.

Should i start Designated Survivor again? I have to really push myself to get into spy intrigue.

Am so glad i avoided Nokdu Flower...but maybe...maybe....

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@scifiwritir Yes, Take Soo-ho definitely is! I'm curious what they're going to do with him. I'm wondering if Chairman Song is going to encounter difficulties he might not be able to handle (as strange as that sounds) as a result of getting mixed up with him.

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I like the ghost from room 13. She's a social justice warrior of sorts. I think her story is going to be heartbreaking if we ever get to hear/see it.

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@ndlessjoie I agree, her story is not a happy one. It certainly looks like she has a list of who did her wrong.

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Happy OT Beanies!

There's this discussion on Search Query: WWW drama thread about whether a relationship where both parties are in love must necessarily lead to marriage. Briefly, Ta Mi the female lead doesn't want to get married and Mogun wants to get married. They can't meet in the middle and have broken up over this issue only to come together again. They know that their difference over the topic still remains and may one day part for good because of it.

I came away with the impression the female lead was seen as independent and liberated. I was also inclined to think that way. But as I thought more about it, I wondered if the roles were reversed, would viewers think the same of the male lead? I think I will more likely conclude that he has commitment issues. So why do we have double standards? Is it because marriage levies a heavier burden on a woman – possibly giving up her career, pressured into bearing children, losing her identity whereas it is lesser for a man? I agree these situations are unfortunately true in most societies but to be fair towards men, I should also stop being prejudiced when I see one with the same stance as Ta Mi.

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Men and women behaviour were always judged differently, there used be this narrative that women want marriage more, because they "benefited" from it more, and men couldn't "commit" because "their freedom". But I hadn't heard this type of talk around me from ages, so I think it's slowly disappearing.

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in a scenario where the man is the breadwinner, a woman can see marriage as a safety net preventing her from being dumped on the road penniless (a big issue especially in a traditional society that overemphasizes virginity); in this case, women depend on marriage for survival. so yes they 'benefit' and men avoid 'commitment' (and responsibility).

in a society where the woman is self sufficient (has a career and is financially stable on her own) all of a sudden marriage starts feeling like a not particularly good deal. that typically also comes with a more open society where a romantic relationship outside the trappings of marriage becomes acceptable. Of course, even in the most forward thinking societies there are still pragmatic and legal advantages in being officially married (lower taxes, sharing healthcare benefits, visas etc) but keeping one's freedom is often worth that price. And yes, there is always divorce...

Instead of obsessing about why TaMi (or anyone else) does not want to get married, I'd ask: in the current modern world what is the point of marriage anyways?

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Lower taxes - ?? as two income no child I think we pay the most tax. You get tax benefits only if you make babies ; )
The financial benefits are mostly around sharing expenses (rental, car, etc) - for which you don't have to be married.
The legal benefits are that you become the legal contact point in event of an emergency - a good will can take care of that I think.

I agree to your last line.
What is the point? does it mean so much these days?

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in some places that I know... the singles are taxed the heaviest. At least it used to be the case... I first noticed when I got a wedding invitation from a friend, that included "why we are getting married" list; lower taxes and an excuse for partying with friends were definitely on that list :-P (I have cool friends)

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I'm writing this in the context of modern times.

It's funny that I started listing reasons why get married and for each, I could counter by an equally valid reason why not to. In the end, my answer was much shorter than I expected. I marry because of love and because I love, why not?

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I think as a society we still see 'marriage' as a validation to prove 'love'. Isn't that trivializing love itself?

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@mayhemf I don't mean that at all. I was only speaking for myself. I didn't marry to prove or validate my love. I don't know how else to explain it except that I marry because I love.

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I like your reason outofthisworld. I got married because I got pregnant (had lived together for three years at that point), and my husband was traditionalist enough to want a formal license. I kind of wanted the big wedding (the dress!) And the presents, and the well wishes and the party! And I'm glad I got them. I had fun.

But I likely would just have stayed living together without the added pressure from my husband and families to marry when I got pregnant.

I don't think it's a bad reason to get married, as a celebration of a new family in company with our two families and all of our friends. I felt like I received good karma from them.

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Family?

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No.

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In my mind, marriage as an institution is designed to be a disadvantage to woman (at least modern working woman who doesn't need the man to provide).
Starting with changing last name, to bearing children, ensuring health of family/kids, providing food, taking care of sick, moving jobs to accommodate husbands career etc.
e.g. Me and my husband got married young, neither of us knew anything about cooking/managing a home. But anywhere we went, only I was asked the question 'what do you cook for your husband'.
I think the scales on a marriage are so different, I don't think we can just flip the roles and judge them on the same parameters.
I agree on your last point - yes, we should not judge a man if he doesn't want to get married and is clear about it from the get go.

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I got married fairly young too, and when my MIL asked me what day I ironed his shirts, I burst out laughing. That said, due to the hard facts of economics, our roles in our marriage are pretty traditional. This is one reason I have made sure my own daughters finish their education and establish a career before even considering marriage, if they even want marriage at all.

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Even in a traditional marriage (woman not working and man providing finances), I think the scales are uneven. There is way too much housework (I took a sabbatical for a year and did most of the housework!!) as opposed to office work.
Even if men worked, I think all men should learn to cook, clean and take care of themselves (at a minimum).
It's even more imbalanced when kids enter the picture (purely observational).

Thankfully no one asked me about ironing his shirt!!!

When we decided not to have kids, the amount of emotional stress that both families put on me as opposed to my husband was so glaring.
I would constantly ask my MIL 'why are you not talking to your son?'.

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I see that dynamic all around me, my parents for instance: both have careers (director of a smallish company, MD) but my mum was still expected to everything a housewife would, on top of her work... my dad used to cook and wash and iron his own shirts before they got married... but has rarely had the reason to since... but it's not only the old generation -- the same dynamic plays out to various degrees in all marriages I know. Men who help out are treated as superdads/superhusbands whereas women are just expected to do it all (and ideally to stop whining about it).

(easy enough to guess on which side of the marriage debate I find myself)

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@charlieblue17 It's so true that when men barely do anything they are considered amazing. "You take your child to school in the morning? What an amazing dad!" while the women are just expected to do this and the slightest mistake has the women being reamed as being horrible mothers or wives. "You weren't able to take your child to school this morning? What a horrible mother by not placing your child first."

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@charlieblue17 @trinpie so true. Even my own male friends have become that. It's a husband privilege they happily use because it's convenient for them.

Earlier, even my parents used to keep my husband on a pedestal because he cooked and did stuff at home. He was this 'great' husband because he does the cooking. I was like 'he eats, so he better cook'!
Now my parents get it, why it offends me.
But, to the rest of the world, I have a great husband and am super lucky. Obviously, I am just an ordinary wife who can cook, clean, organize, work, plan travel, make bookings, change light bulbs, assemble furniture etc ; )))

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My MIL was a full time working mother till she retired so she had no expectations of me when it came to housework or career. My mother was actually appalled that my in laws never once asked their son or me when we were going to have children. She thought we could do with a little pressure! For a Chinese family, the eldest son is usually expected to continue the family line. I must say our situation wasn't exactly the norm. However, I think any mother-in-laws these days would hardly expect their daughters-in-law to do more than their fair share of housework.

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Oh yes, the responsibilities and expectations of being the eldest!
both me and my husband are the eldest child. That's a topic for another OT!

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(I'm also talking about traditional societies here)
Changing surname? - Why would someone?
Bearing children? - When did it became a requirement of successful marriage life and happy family?
Ensuring Health of family - isn't it responsibility of both partners?
providing food - the same above
Taking care of sick - Children live independent of their parents even in Asian societies of modern world. Hello Hospital.
Moving Jobs - Why move if you feel your are coerced or forced - if you are - then can you call it happy marriage life?
I understand the points and those points actually work in real life but i also think all of them are just petty excuses and revel the weak character of the person.

I consider marrying at young age one of the biggest folly people do.

If whatever is written by everyone is so true(which sadly most of is indeed true) then that makes me one heck of best husband material.

My mom from start told me - be independent. believe in your own hands. So i like to, I prefer to do things with my own hands. One thing i have learned from life is that you have to make compromises as well as sacrifices. same goes for relationships.

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Right now there is a huge movement in Korea that is called #nomarriage. It's women standing up and taking a stance against the idea of society pressuring women to get married. Marriage has almost always favored men and still does. Studies show that women are happier without a spouse or children and are likely to live longer then their married counterparts. It also showed men benefited the most from marriage while women sacrificed the most.

I love that the drama is portraying Ta Mi like this because I am one of those women who doesn't want to get married. I love my freedom too much. I really hope the drama sticks to their guns and shows you don't have to get married if you are in love (I am on ep. 10 right now so no spoilers!). Most dramas end with the couple getting happily ever after married or engaged but you don't need to do that in this day and age.

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"women are happier without a spouse or children and are likely to live longer then their married counterparts"
My grand mother, grand aunt and my husbands grand mother all lived a long life after the death of their spouses. Elders in my family commented that they seemed happier now that they don't have the responsibility to care for their spouse. In those days, men didn't lift a fork. And caring for a spouse in your 60's takes a toll on most women. That was also the reason, why men married women much younger than them.

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I believe every woman should be able to make that choice for herself. I am very happy being married and my husband is my best friend. BUT (and it's a big but) I would never tell anyone else how to live their life. If it makes you happier and more fulfilled to be single, I'm in your corner, Sister. (Solidarity, high five.) But if you tell me I'm stupid for my choice, (which you didn't do, TrinPie. I'm speaking hypothetically) then boo.

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Oh most definitely. I don't condemn anyone who gets married. It's not something I want for me but I understand why other people do want to get married and have no issue with it. No one should condemn anyone for choosing to be single or married. As long as they made the choice they believe will make them happy it's something that should be celebrated and encouraged.

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I hope this #nomarriage thing works out because living in such a hierarchichal culture would stress anyone out. I remember, though, when Korea's greatest export were adopted children born out of wedlock. I see a lot of dramas nowadays with single mothers but i'm not sure how this #nomarriage thing would work in korea if kids (and older women) are as careless as they are in the US with contraception. That whole abortion thing in korea complicates matters. So we shall see.

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After years of kdrama watching, I found myself thinking I wouldn't want to marry if I am a woman living in S.Korea. I felt the same when I read about gender inequality in Japan.

It's not that marriage here, where I'm from is totally egalitarian but I think most of our discussion on marriage and perspectives is influenced by the culture we come from, the place where we live, religion and demographics like education, occupation etc.

If I live in a place and/or I was born into a culture and therefore family where marriage is less attractive to a woman, more burdensome than beneficial, I would have a different take on it altogether.

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You are right. Am sure my ‘indian’ upbringing has a huge influence on my opinion about marriage.

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I know I run the risk of generalizing and treading on sensitive issues but I've always been curious - it seems to me that the Chinese have become 'less traditional' for the lack of a better word, in the aspect of gender roles and marriage than the Indians when two or more generations ago, both cultures were very tradition bound.

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It's actually the same for Chinese and the Koreans because both societies are very much influenced by Confucianism and yet move in quite different tangents.

I'm not saying what's right or wrong. Among the older generations, there's often lamentations about how quickly our young is losing their 'traditional values' .

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Thanks for bringing this up. All you beanies have given good arguments for or against the need for marriage so I won’t get into that. But my question is this- If you’re willing to live together (ta mi did mention moving in? then what’s the block against getting married? You’re sharing space combining your lives maybe finances as well. So what’s the difference?

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The rules of society and Govt don't apply to you anymore and you can keep both at bay.
The moment you marry you become a 'wife' or a 'husband'. Then society/coworkers want a marriage party. Then etc etc.. it just creeps on you ; )

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Plus words matter, a number of my friends who cohabitated before marriage admitted that they attitude toward each other changed after marriage and unconsciously they started to fall into their roles (former socio-/psycho-/anthropology students, so they tend to overanalyse everything).

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I don't want to get married, it's hard to explain it to my 4 years old son, but I finally accepted ( for my partner's tax purposes) to get "pacsed." I need my escape chance card to pull out sometimes when things get unbearable. I was on my own for 26 years and it was difficult decision for me to change that status and more difficult decision to have children, which I don't regret at all but sometimes regarding changes in nature I understand my old myself why I didn't want to bring children to this world at first. But let's have a hope.

My partner changed when we moved to his country and next to his parents. We're living in his comfort zone and I have to fight to not to loose myself time to time. He doesn't understand that I'd have to start from scratch and learn this difficult language I heard trough Edith Piaf songs and listening to it while watching movies with subtitles and that I can't work in my field because my diploma is not accepted. I hope I'll get my grip soon so there's no space for marriage. I've never dreamed of marriage and white dress anyway.

Marriage is for some people an achievement or insurance of not to be thrown out with nothing if one's dead. There's some kind of Korean type makjang happening in my family now and it's terrible.

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I think Ta Mi explained why she doesn't want marriage: because it involves TWO parties (and + in laws) as opposed to only herself! When you're not married you do not need to compromise... You can still spend all your weekend at bed, or dine outside whenever you wish to, go on vacation whenever/wherever you want to, no pressure for spending time with relatives/in laws, no mother role etc. Marriage results in compromising (for both parties, but especially for contemporary women because they need to take the mother role in addition to their career).

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I remember an interview with the actress who played Ta Mi. She said that she had chosen to have this career over having a family.

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i felt meh about the ending of WWW. The male love interests are so over-the-top adoring wish-fulfillment characters with Morgan being the worst of them. I like a good beta male. I like that the drama played with all these beta males and alpha females. But they played with them in a somewhat unbelievable one-tone way. If we have any character who dislikes marriage -- to the DEGREE that our heroine did-- we have to see why she/he hates it so much. In dramas where men hate marriage, we see their issues. The writer was trying to write a good feminist drama and i applaud the effort but for good cultural dramas to work, we have to have believability and challenges. Morgan had no real challenge or story arc outside of the heroine, and heroine had no real depth of a backstory. Whether through seeing her family history or her seeing how powerful women were treated by men (or evil mothers-in-law), there wasn't much that we could say "affected her viewpoint." Also, i think i wanted more workplace stuff with the love stories in the background a bit more...but nooooo. i liked this drama but i wanted to love it.

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I think the writer intentionally skipped the backstory for Ta Mi because her point was Ta Mi did not want marriage. Period. It wasn't because she came from a broken family or prospective difficult mother-in-laws. All we were told is that she can barely take care of herself and that's largely because she 'married' to her career.

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In stories, that doesn't work. If someone passionately goes against something in his/her culture, there is usually a deepset reason. It's one of the basics of storytelling. So if the writer didn't want to do a backstory, she failed her story. Especially if she is speaking to her current culture. If she is echoing the #nomarriage movement currently in korea, then she is borrowing the backstories of the culture which is cheating. The folks watching her drama will transfer what they know from culture into her story. But a writer has to have her complete say. When i am writing a story from the heart, i am always aware of what i am not saying because then there is no truth, only a writing exercize. Writer should have been passionate and had her say. At this point, i feel Rookie Historian is doing a fantastic job of showing how women are treated in office (historically and probably currently) and it touches the feminist in me more passionately because we see the striving. In WWW there was no feminist striving, just chaebol mother-in-law issues and a heroine whose full story wasn't laid out for us. The focus of the story became soft and blurry with wish-fulfillment needy guy. A very narrow focus. Male character's needy love was explored but female character's distaste for marriage was not. It was unbalanced storytelling. In romances. the otp have deepfelt issues from deepfelt causes. In this case, her issues stood on thin air without any grounding. This isn't the real world. And it isn't romance because when faced with an issue founded on thin air, there is no engaging with it. She "simply did not want marriage" means that there is no ability to engage or connect to the root cause of the issue and to prove main character right or to make the other half of the OTP understand where she was coming from. Sorry about over-explaining it but the editor in me feels the story failed because there was no way for male lead to grow in love and understanding toward the truest heart of the female character.

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I can see and understand your point of view. From the perspective of wanting to understand Tami motivation of choosing no marriage, the writer did not satisfy your need.

On the other hand, i think the writer consciously chosed this route. The whole drama has a utopia feel to it. Women are in power in this world. No one questioning that, not the women nor the men, it's just a fact. No juggling between work/family/society responsibility/expectation. Very clear stand on the ethical side on the work related topics. I feel that the writer make a choice of extending this point of view to Tami choice, that it's ok to make a choice without having to explain it to everyone. I know for the longest time i felt i have to explain to people why we chosed not to have kid, and than when we did end up to have one, the next never ending question is why we don't have another one. So while I personally want to know more about Tami reasoning, i understand (and actually admired) the writer stand of purposefully holding it back.

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I haven't seen it but I wonder if Beanies haven't answered why for the female leaf when they say there are different pressures with different cultures. It is easy for me to say why not have the celebration and party, but I had very little in law pressure during my married life. I frankly would never have married at all either if I thought my in laws would be more than a once a month Sunday dinner.

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My perspective comes from my faith. I've been married close to 40 years, and we've been through everything--and changing times.

There is an essential reason and role for marriage: it contributes to society because it models the way women and men live interdependently and commit, for life, to seek the best for each other. The marital union also provides the best conditions for raising children: namely, the stable, loving relationship of a mother and father present only in marriage. A health marriage makes a unique and essential contribution to the common good.
It's a long, challenging experience, that can benefit the man and the woman, children, and society when lived out in a selfless way.

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My real world-observation:
There's a certain type of couple who see marriage as pointless but eventually get to the stage where its just more *convenient* to be married - as in home mortgage deeds, legal documents, joint savings accounts, family names on birth certificates, etc. Ta Mi isn't even close to that stage yet where it looks 'convenient' to be married. Mo Gun, in contrast, is the needy one. He equated marriage with 'family', his urge to be married is tied up with early abandonment issues. He needs counselling more than a wedding.
About marriage stifling work for women, lets recall the villain of the series is a mother in her 60s who also heads a conglomerate. And her (ex) daughter-in-law got to her top business position while married, though admittedly that marriage was a sham.

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So we installed a cat door in the door connecting to the garage so that our cats can go and poop in peace (the litter boxes live in the garage). Turns out they are not happy with the changes and have been singing the songs of their people for hours at a time sitting near the ‘new’ door. Before the new installation they had to jump over a dinosaur door stopper to get in. Trust me it was done of the best. They dont get it.

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Cats hate change more than humans lol

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Our cats are frequent flyers. Have moved houses 4 times in the last 4 years so they should stop being what they are and get in on the program! 😤😆

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But a CAT DOOR a CAT DOOR Ren is the GATE TO HELL 😂😂
A plane? Fine. A new house? Fine. A baby? Fine. A cat door and a change in food brand? Not fine.
I love cats. They're such dramatic assholes. I relate.

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I understand cats. That’s why I have them. They are such shitty assholes really. Love them.

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singing the songs of their people for hours at a time sitting near the ‘new’ door

@coffeprince4eva RenOlshi,
ROFLMAO at that image. You're reminding me of my furry nephews. Thank you. ;-)

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Hahahah! They are the worst but I love them more than life itself!

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Happy Friday all.

Good news: a client told me our team did a good job and our report was reviewed and accepted. It made me happy the whole day.

Other news: I picked up no current airing dramas. I need clear headspace to watch anything new, that includes JKH's new drama: Devil. I was excited for it to air, but as the premiere date got closer, my interest started to decrease. I tried watching ep 1 live, and found the colours too muted and washed out for me, it was similar to how I felt when I watched the first ep of WWW. So to avoid me being critical and judgy about the show, I decided to put it on hold, I'll watch it when I feel like it. I'm so, so, so happy the drama is well-received on DB, maybe I'll read the recaps when it comes out 😊.

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I really like JKH and i like the first episode but if i continue watching i'll watch on a site where i don't have to deal with snide folks mocking religion. Some of the commenters on viki just get so nasty about certain things. Religion, clothing styles, and hair styles being three.

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You can turn the comments off. I mostly ignore them but sometimes they add a different translation that helps me understand.

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Happy Friday, Beanies!

This week, the biggest plot twist happened to me and family. It wasn't really a scary surprise but it was just too funny not to share.

My mom and my siblings planned a surprise party for the 60th birthday of my aunt. They have been planning the party for over a year now. Everything was already prepared: the cakes, the balloons, the invitations, flowers, etc. BUT, a day before her birthday my aunt dropped a bomb...

It was actually her 61st birthday and not her 60th!

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We still celebrated her 60th birthday and called it a belated celebration... but her 61st birthday? We will never get to celebrate that because it'll be her 62nd birthday next year HAHAHAHA

This actually happened because she did not see her date of birth properly in her birth certificate (it was handwritten). She insisted that she was sure she was born on 1959 when her birth certificate says it was on 1958 lmao

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It's even better that she didn't know her real age. In a drama this could be used as a plot device if she is now older than her husband.

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Too bad my aunt is still single. But she might find a love interest (if she wants to) while she fixes some papers due to her own "mistake." She can get into a contract marriage if she wants to HAHA

Or she can get a plastic surgery when she turns 63 like Min-sook in What's Wrong With My Mother-in-Law? and fall in love with her son-in-law's good twin brother.

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What's Wrong With My Mother-in-Law? needs to be made into an actual drama. I would binge watch that drama like Cha Hyeon.

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@trinpie tvn should honestly just do it and produce that show. Most viewers are guilty makjang fans so they won't lose anything. I just need more of Lee Jae-wook before his next project on September!

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LOL. This is fantastic.

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Makjang drama plots would never do this. I feel so betrayed.

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That's amazing :D

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It was really amazing. I thought this only happens in dramas but this happened to someone really close to me.

And we've been having a good laugh the whole week because of this.

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Yes, that is straight from the dramas, but I hope your aunt doesn't feel bad for being older than she thought she was.
Oh, it reminded me about rich Russian socialites who bribed civil servants to change their birth certificates.

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She actually thought it was funny so it was good (had to make sure of this before our family made jokes so she doesn't feel bad).

But now that it is gradually sinking in for her, all the discounts and benefits she could have had afforded last year made her sad and regretful for not doubting her age.

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This is such a cute story! The 61st is a big deal in Korea:

http://folkency.nfm.go.kr/en/topic/detail/548

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I didn't know it was such a big deal in Korea. Haha. It really isn't a big deal in my country. This is a nice article. Thanks!

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