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When the Camellia Blooms: Episodes 19-20

Our heroine draws on her inner strength to pursue a more fulfilling life, one that leaves space to date as well as care for her family. Meanwhile, her cop paramour races against time to track down a dangerous villain. Can he succeed before tragedy strikes again?

 
EPISODE 19: “Nice People Can’t Get Lucky”

As our two lovebirds kiss, Dong-baek’s eyes pop open. She thinks to herself it felt like the air stopped and she thought she saw snowflakes–nothing made sense.

They sit in a daze at their dumpling spot and we hear a radio broadcast about the unusually early snowfall in Ongsan. They hold hands under the table and we hear them think that being “reckless” beats taking things slowly.

At Dong-baek’s doorstep, Yong-shik lingers to say, “I like you.” She shyly replies that she knows, everyone knows. He nods and continues that he’s gone past the point of just liking her though. Dong-baek tries to stop him from continuing, but he persists. He slooowly starts to profess his love…until he’s interrupted by a chicken delivery.

Dong-baek says she never ordered any food, but Jung-sook pops out to take the delivery. It turns out she heard everything, and she asks Yong-shik why he stutters so much before going inside.

Dong-baek asks if her life is too much for him but Yong-shik assertively says no, and that she shouldn’t lose confidence. Smiling, she assures him she won’t let people bring her down anymore. After a few beers and some chicken, Dong-baek’s in a chatty mood. She tells Pil-gu and Jung-sook that she’s done being a doormat; she’ll live how she wants! She’ll make her own destiny!

Pil-gu cares more about what’s on TV, but Jung-sook smiles to herself at Dong-baek’s affirmations. While Dong-baek is fast asleep, Jung-sook rummages through her drawers.

The next day, Dong-baek makes a splash as she struts through the market in a bright red dress, with heels and lipstick to match. She greets the ajumma squad and tells them she’ll be at the next co-op meeting. As she leaves with a smile and a wave, and the ajummas sit in a daze, wondering if Dong-baek had always been so pretty.

Outside of a coffee shop, Dong-baek repeats her affirmation that she’ll live how she wants, and strides in.

At the Camellia, Yong-shik questions Hyang-mi about the cat food that someone’s been leaving out by the Camellia. She says she has no idea, but all talk stops as they notice a beaming Dong-baek walking over a used moped.

Turns out she wants to start offering food deliveries. Yong-shik is bewildered–but it gets worse. Dong-baek praises the coffee shop owner Mi-soon, saying that she got a huge discount but Hyang-mi gasps to hear the price; it’s twice what Mi-soon paid for it. Yong-shik gives the moped an inspection and his verdict is that Dong-baek’s been scammed. When he slaps the moped’s trunk for emphasis, it pops right off lol.

Back at the police station, Yong-shik’s excited to share the news that his Ongsan connections have helped him finally track down the owner of the building across from OK Aesthetics. They learn from the owner that there’s only one entrance and no one ever visits the building. At the sound of a fire engine roaring off, sirens blaring, everyone stops what they’re doing.

At school, a couple of kids gossip about how Pil-gu is the only one who is 2D1M (i.e. 2 Dads, 1 Mom). Pil-gu seems to let it slide, but then he stands up and calls out to the kid before punching him right in the nose.

Chief Byun and Yong-shik are at the scene of the fire–it’s at the building across from OK Aesthetics. Chief Byun is surprised to learn from the firefighters that there was another blaze recently and a lighter found there. Yong-shik is unsettled to learn that the firefighters suspect oil was used in both of the fires, which points to arson.

As they leave the building, Chief Byun mutters that he’s getting a bad feeling and holds onto a crushed lighter that was found on site. Yong-shik however, can’t get over who keeps refilling the cat food bowl. There’s always a ton of cat food but never any cats around.

Jessica snaps a post-volunteer session group selfie with some other players’ wives. As they enjoy some fancy drinks, they gossip about the cheating baseball player that everyone’s been talking about. Apparently he’s a Seoul Ligers player. Jessica chokes on her drink and swears when she hears the “mistress” lives in a backwoods place called Ongsan.

Speaking of Ongsan, Jong-ryeol’s back in lurker mode at Pil-gu’s school. When he sees the state of Pil-gu’s face, he rushes up in concern, but gets the brush-off. Joon-gi’s the one who fills Jong-ryeol in: some other kids called Pil-gu a 2D1M. Unfortunately, Jong-ryeol mishears the insult as “tofu.”

Jong-ryeol tells Pil-gu that he shouldn’t fight kids over a friendly nickname–and tofu’s a great source of protein! It’s all too much for Pil-gu to handle and he bursts out that it’s 2D1M, meaning 2 Dads, 1 Mom. Jong-ryeol looks crushed…then furious. He yells at the two bullies to get their butts over here.

Instead of a telling off, Jong-ryeol treats all the kids to a buffet meal and attempts to play peacemaker. But kids being kids, they’re more interested in all the yummy food options.

Pil-gu’s listless, so Jong-ryeol keeps trying to entice him to have more food and while giving advice. But the more he talks, the more upset Pil-gu looks and as Jong-ryeol goes on about eating dried herring, Pil-gu starts crying.

The tears keep coming as Pil-gu insists he’ll never eat dried herring and he hates everything. Most importantly, he doesn’t like Jong-ryeol. Taking in Pil-gu’s tears, Jong-ryeol realizes that Pil-gu knows they’re father and son.

There’s a new dish on the Camellia’s menu, dumplings (Yong-shik’s favorite). Dong-baek denies that she’s adding them to the menu just because of Yong-shik, and she cheekily ignores Hyang-mi’s advice about strategically playing hard to get. She tells Hyang-mi life is complicated enough, and frankly, she’s lonely. She likes Yong-shik and being honest with him. But Hyang-mi warns her not to trust him completely. Guys who fall in love that quickly tend to fall for anyone and he looks like an easy mark.

Yong-shik is horrified when Chief Byun divulges that four fires broke out before the Joker began his murder spree. The fires were mostly small, so they didn’t attract much attention, but on the day of a big fire at the town’s bathhouse, the Joker claimed his first victim.

Just then a large signboard falls off the building, narrowly missing the two men. Chief Byun is enraged, but Yong-shik spots a security camera mark on the wall. This might mean a new lead for the Joker case.

Hyang-mi is spins a yarn about her dear friend Sook-hee, who’s in need of funds for a medical emergency. A distracted Yong-shik nods along and calls Hyang-mi a great friend for helping to raise funds but Dong-baek cuts in to say that the story’s fake. He sits there confused as Dong-baek, Hyang-mi, and Jung-sook tsk at his gullibility.

Another uncomfortable talk is taking place by the ocean, as Pil-gu and Jong-ryeol finally sit down to have a talk. Pil-gu says honestly that because he never knew his father, he never missed him. Now that he’s met his father, he can’t say he’s excited. It’s weird knowing his dad is Superman.

Jong-ryeol tries to explain that if he’d known, he wouldn’t have left. But Pil-gu’s actually asking why Jong-ryeol left his mom. Dong-baek used to cry whenever she heard the word “dad,” meaning Pil-gu avoided watching cartoons or singing songs about dads. He continues that he doesn’t want anything Jong-ryeol gives him–he doesn’t want Superman for a dad. Jong-ryeol is left to cry on his own as Pil-gu walks away.

EPISODE 20

Ja-young’s grilling eels for her mother-in-law and friends and one of the women praises her for coming all the way over just to buy them lunch. Ja-young stays silent but when the women start asking for free legal advice, she tells them to make an appointment with her. She only came because Mom-in-law asked for a ride home. She coolly bids them good-bye and walks out.

Jong-ryeol stops Pil-gu outside the Camellia and shows him how to wear a baseball uniform properly. While he re-does the uniform, he tells Pil-gu to just be a kid. Yong-shik sees this from afar and turns to go.

In the marketplace, he gets flustered and fidgety when Dong-baek invites him over to taste her dumplings. She guesses right away that Jong-ryeol’s back and tells him not to be so considerate. Yong-shik says he’s not being considerate of Jong-ryeol; it’s more that he sees himself in Pil-gu. He understands that though he hates Jong-ryeol, Pil-gu might not feel the same way.

Jong-ryeol finishes smoothing out Pil-gu’s baseball uniform and lovingly tells Pil-gu he doesn’t need to act so grown up. Dong-baek waits for Pil-gu to go inside before approaching Jong-ryeol and telling him to stop coming by and acting so friendly with Pil-gu. He’s a shy kid. With a sigh, he says Dong-baek doesn’t know her own son at all. Pil-gu knows. Pil-gu knows who his dad is.

Yong-shik sees his mother struggle with a heavy bag of rice, and carries it into the restaurant for her. Inside, they’re all raised voices and bickering. Yong-shik asks if she’s going to make him lunch; though she fires back that she has nothing for him, the next thing we see is a huge spread just for Yong-shik.

She places tasty morsels onto his rice, but he stops eating when he sees she’s wearing his old clothes and sneakers. Yong-shik pleads for her to take care of herself. If she keeps saving her money just to pass it on, when she dies, his heart will ache.

Dong-baek fusses over Pil-gu’s injuries and is taken aback when Pil-gu tells her that he met his dad, Kang Jong-ryeol. It was super obvious, what with all of Jong-ryeol’s fancy gifts. Dong-baek tries to find the words but Pil-gu stops her. She doesn’t need to say anything, he’s okay, he just wanted her to know that he knew. Deok-soon takes off the old World Cup t-shirt and tells her part-timer to use is as a rag.

Kyu-tae, his mother and Ja-young are having a meal, which involves lots of petty comments from Kyu-tae’s mom, aimed at Ja-young. Having had enough, Ja-Young asks why it is that she’s shown off to everyone, but also berated for being more competent than Kyu-tae? Her mother-in-law snaps back that she finds Ja-young annoying and no man would be interested in her — no wonder she’s childless. Ugh.

Kyu-tae actually stands up to his mom (albeit timidly) and tells her to go home, but Ja-Young is out of effs to give and says she’s not the problem, it’s Kyu-tae. He’s been wasting his energy on his bar girl mistress. Mom-in-law refuses to believe it until Kyu-tae deflates and says she shouldn’t have provoked Ja-young. That earns him a slap from mom. Ja-Young tells them normal legal proceedings won’t be enough to cool her anger.

At a hair salon, the infamous Sook-hee says she’s the one who leaked the Kang Jong-ryeol rumor. Her friends say she’s reckless, what if he sues her? She casually says she’s didn’t start the rumor, she’s just a source. Her Garibong best friend is taking a break in Ongsan; she’s the real source. At the mention of Garibong, a man gets up while getting his hair shampooed and stares Sook-hee down. The mere sight of him is enough to make her nervous. Nak-ho smirks as he repeats what he heard, that Sook-hee’s friend is in Ongsan.

Hyang-mi talks to someone on the phone and complains about coming up with more money before hanging up on them. She goes through the fridge at the Camellia and finds the stack of cash hidden in the abalone box. She mutters that it’s because of people like Dong-baek that traitors exist. She also messages Jessica on Instagram, but Jessica is too busy looking through Jong-ryeol’s GPS to notice. Ongsan Elementary School pops up multiple times.

The next day at school, Pil-gu spots Jong-ryeol’s car and tries to get in–but it’s not Jong-ryeol. Jessica asks him what he thinks he’s doing and Pil-gu just apologizes and says he made a mistake.

He goes to leave but Jessica calls after him. Have they met before? Pil-gu he says no, it was only because her car was familiar.

Right then Dong-baek calls out to Pil-gu and the two ladies see each other. Dong-baek recognizes Jessica as Superman’s wife–and Jessica recognizes Dong-baek as Jong-ryeol’s “Sunshine.”

Flashback to summer 2017: Jessica snoops through Jong-ryeol’s phone and sees Dong-baek’s pictures in a folder named “Sunshine.” She thinks to herself that she found Jong-ryeol’s sunshine that night, and learned her name later on after hearing Jong-ryeol talk about Dong-baek when he got drunk.

Seeing Jong-ryeol’s sports car outside the Camellia, Dong-baek turns to Pil-gu and says she has to take care of some things. He offers to go with her but she says she’ll be okay. Pil-gu leaves her with his usual tip, “punch ’em in the nose.”

Dong-baek informs Jong-ryeol that Jessica was at Pil-gu’s school. Inside the Camellia, Hyang-mi stares at the abalone box full of money, but moves away when Jung-sook tells her to stop being a joke or she could die. Hyang-mi says she gets it…then casually asks why Jung-sook’s pretending to have dementia.

Yong-shik arrives with a bouquet, but deflates when Pil-gu says his mom and Jong-ryeol left together. At a ramyun restaurant, Dong-baek tells Jong-ryeol that she barely lived after they broke up, but she’s going to lead a proper life. She’ll never be a mistress.

Jong-ryeol says he doesn’t want her to be a mistress, he just wants her to wait–but no, Dong-baek’s done waiting for him.

Yong-shik nurses a bottle of soju as he waits for Dong-baek. When it’s just the two of them, Jung-sook suddenly starts talking to him with remarkable clarity, and says he’s a considerate guy–too considerate. She warns that a man who protects the girl will never win against a man who tries to steal her. If he keeps waiting, he might just lose Dong-baek

Jong-ryeol asks why Dong-baek moved to Ongsan. Was it because she was waiting for him? When they were still together, he had talked about Ongsan. He’d described it as a peculiar place, almost run like a feudal state. At the same time the people there treat their neighbors like family.

After a pause, she says yes. Back then, she so much false hope and wanted to call for his help. She half thought one day he might show up in Ongsan. But even on her toughest days, she never reached out to him. He has no right to be a part of her life anymore. Jong-ryeol asks for a second chance, but Dong-baek won’t entertain the thought of it. They’re different people now and there’s no going back.

Yong-shik spots Jong-ryeol’s car outside the restaurant he hesitates and thinks about all the times he’s backed away before. Hyang-mi walks by an alley and spots someone refilling the cat bowls.

Their meal is over, but Jong-ryeol still has questions. If he came back with a divorce and begged, would Dong-baek take him back? Again, it’s a no from her.

He asks if that’s because of Yong-shik. If so, how can she even trust someone like that? Jong-ryeol says Yong-shik is exactly like he was 10 years ago: quick to love, but quick to care only about himself. Just then, Yong-shik pops up and sarcastically commends Jong-ryeol for being honest about himself. But just because Jong-ryeol’s a jerk doesn’t mean everyone is.

Yong-shik points out that he’s treated Jong-ryeol with enough respect for being Pil-gu’s dad, but that Jong-ryeol should stop being clingy now. With utter confidence, Yong-shik says he’s the one Dong-baek likes, and she and Pil-gu aren’t people Jong-ryeol can take back.

He tells Dong-baek not to hang out with Jong-ryeol one on one ever again. Saying that he gets jealous easily, Yong-shik asks Dong-baek to grab his hand and sticks his hand out at he, wiggling it for emphasis, and Dong-baek takes his hand. The couple walk away together, leaving Jong-ryeol gaping.

Hand-in-hand, they walk back to the Camellia and poke fun at each other. Dong-baek says her life’s a mess right now: there’s the Joker, her lease ending, Jong-ryeol being a jerk and Pil-gu finding out about his dad. Despite all that, she smiles more than ever these days.

She confesses that she likes him and Yong-shik beams. They giggle as pass the alley where Hyang-mi and the cat-feeder see the giggling couple pass by and Hyang-mi says Dong-baek’s getting prettier with love. She sadly wonders if she’ll get to be loved like that in Copenhagen and live a life that befits her pretty name.

Back at the scene of the murder, Yong-shik whispers she can’t be dead. Chief-Byun shows him the wallet and ID card found on the body. The ID is damaged but we can see a birthdate and name, 1986.12.24 Choi Go-woon. He asks Yong-shik if he recognizes her, because that’s her real name.

 
COMMENTS

Choi Hyang-mi is such an interesting character and I’m not quite sure if she’s good, bad, or something inbetween. She’s managed to make enemies of quite a few people: the loan shark oppa, Kyu-tae and Ja-young, Jong-ryeol, possibly Jessica and definitely Jung-sook. It may be a fake-out, (Dong-baek mentioned that her real birthday is sometime in the winter, but her legal birthday became Aug. 29, the day she was abandoned at the orphanage) but it seems pretty clear she’s the victim at the crime scene. She mentioned wanting to live a life that was as pretty (a.k.a. “go-woon”) as her name, then seeing that ID card for Choi Go-woon…poor Hyang-mi. Given that she’s made contact with the suspected Joker, it’s not a huge shock but was it the Joker who killed her or one of the many people she crossed? Hm…I feel like Sherlock!

Every time we end on an eerie scene, I’m hit with mixed feelings of dread and frustration at the same time. We’ve come so far but know so little. There’s always a lingering focus on the cat food alongside the emphasis that there are no cats around, which leads me to believe maybe the food is poisoned. I remember Yong-shik made a comment about how psychopaths commit arson and abuse animals too. I’m still betting it’s Heung-shik, because in addition to always wearing gloves he has ready access to paint thinner (used in the random fires) and he’s familiar with Hyang-mi too.

I think the person who set off the sprinklers and saved Dong-baek the first time around might’ve been Jung-sook because of how unnervingly scary and determined she gets when she talks about protecting Dong-baek. She must have been keeping tabs on Dong-baek since she had the Camellia’s phone number on her bracelet, as well. I can’t quite reconcile her fierce protectiveness and the suspicious, secret rummaging through Dong-baek’s drawers though. What is going on with Jung-sook? Why is she pretending to have dementia and where has she been all these years?

The focus on families this episode showed moments of true vulnerability in everyone–everyone in Camellia feels so real and genuine, flaws and all. Pil-gu is out for my heart–and my tears. Every time he’s on screen, the sun shines a bit brighter, and so his breakdown in front of Jong-ryeol made me want to wave a wand and make everything right in the world. For an eight-year old he’s incredibly perceptive, and he’s taken it upon himself to be an adult and his mother’s protector. But he should have space to just be a kid, like Jong-ryeol said. Little Pil-gu deserves all the rainbows and love in the world. I am rooting for his relationship with both Jong-ryeol and Yong-shik to blossom so that he gets to benefit from a large support system and doesn’t have to act all tough and grown-up all the time.

I do think that Jong-ryeol deserves bonding time with Pil-gu, he is his biological father after all, but he needs to learn to treat Dong-baek with respect and accept that he can’t just turn back the clock because he wants to. Dong-baek doesn’t want (and shouldn’t have to) let bygones be bygones, but I do hope the two of them learn to be parents to Pil-gu in a way that’s healthy and positive for everyone involved.

Dong-baek deserves a shout-out for growing and staying strong throughout all these events that have upheaved her life. I love that she’s putting her foot down when it comes to making decisions in her life, like making Jong-ryeol understand why she left him and will never go back. I also adore Yong-shik and the way he constantly reminds Dong-baek to remember she’s worth it and that she shouldn’t expect any less. He’s grown too, in how he maintains boundaries with Dong-baek and is confident in his love and respect for her. There’s no wrist grabbing in his repertoire, instead, a trusting outstretched hand. Is there anything not to love?

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Hurray! It’s no more Mr. Nice Guy for Yong-Shik! He actually went for his woman and laid down the rules when it came to Jong-Ryeol. Hahaha! Literally cheered when Dong Baek grabbed his hand. 🥰

“Now let’s go in the corner and kiss!” Cheeky!!! 😂

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The scene where he stutters trying to say saranghe was so endearingly dorky and awkward that I was embarrassed for him as Dong Baek was. Mom is so not helping, calling him out on it as she went to meet the chicken delivery guy 😂🙈

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JungSook is unnerving in a way that make her as scary as Joker in some moments, we have no idea if she is their to protect DongBaek or use her. The adults miscommunication is so real it's painful and frustrating, especially when we as viewers see that their intentions coming from good place, I really rooting for Pil Gu to have good relationship with both his father and YongShik, I loved that scene when YongShik recognized the moment between father and son and took the step back. JaYoung continue to be the best and I think the whole long scene with Donbeak in red dress is perfect sum up of the drama right until the trunk of the scooter falling off.

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@shach,

I suspect that everyone in Ongsan is whack-o and cannot be trusted to speak the truth. It must be something in the water... Hyang-mi, for instance, used to say that she was trustworthy because her memory was crap -- which was a lie. All along she has been a very canny and calculating judge of character with a flair for targeting her marks -- until she ran afoul of Nak-ho.

Dong-baek's mother may not actually have dementia, and seems to have only been feigning it so she can watch over her daughter from afar. I suspect that she put her in the orphanage to protect her from something or someone very evil. But I'm really wondering why she's rummaging around in Dong-baek's dresser drawers.

I loved that scene with Yong-shik backing off to give Pil-gu and his father some privacy. Talk about a class act. When he exhorted Dong-baek in front of Jong-ryeol to come over and take his hand and she took him up on the offer, I just about cheered. On the other hand, I have a strong sense that he would never put Pil-gu in the position of having to choose between him and Jong-ryeol.

With her new-found self-confidence, Dong-baek decides to do what she wants, and ignorantly buys a decrepit second-hand scooter that is literally "cheap for twice the price" so the Camellia can do food deliveries. The looks on Hyang-mi's and Yong-shik's faces are priceless as she proudly pushes it to the bar. What is wrong with this picture?! ROFLMAO when Yong-shik touches the carrier and it falls off. Self-confidence is no substitute for knowledge, expertise, or talent. In this regard, she's beginning to resemble the loose cannon Yong-shik of the early episodes, while he has simmered down quite a bit.

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We finally discover where that sun-drenched pastel view of the village came from. Surprisingly it wasn't even Dong-Baek's view of the world, it was actually a borrowed memory of Jong-Ryeol's childhood lens....(and its veracity is yet to be determined)

Like the 30 Rock episode where we see the world through Kenneth's eyes (as the muppets) we momentarily get to see how DB imagines this village...only to be cast back again into partial reality.

Much love to all the recappers - and even though this drama is not high on many Beanies watch list I do so appreciate that it is still being given a home for each episode (time vs traffic must be marginal). Only for me, given how fast the drama is shifting, it is so hard to comment 3 episodes back without being influenced by the latter episodes.

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Thanks for the recap @fencejumper! I do think the ending was meant to be read as a subtle confirmation that our victim in the present is, in fact, Hyang-mi.

I've felt such conflicting emotions about her for a while. Maybe because, when you think about it, a lot of her messed-up behavior has been directed towards the men bothering Dong-baek. While I can't say she isn't using DB and Pil-gu for her gain, she still tries to control the situation so that it will only negatively impact Gyu-tae and Jong-ryeol.

At least, until she gets desperate. When someone is close to falling completely back into self-destructive behavior, it is common for them to blame the individuals who place the most trust in them, as Hyang-mi does here. Dong-baek leaves all are her weak spots open for her to use and it feels much like an attempt in keeping Hyang-mi human, for how much it tempts her to not to be.

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I thought Hyang-mi was referring to the cat feeder as Ajusshi while talking to him. Not sure though, dont remember. Heung-shik would be younger right? Maybe his father?

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Yes, she called him Ajusshi, maybe there are two cat feeders?

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@edgarpordwed,
I've been thinking that there's something going on with Heung-shik's father, too. Now that you mention Hyang-mi's addressing the cat feeder as ajusshi, that makes sense. He could be a regular at the Camellia. Might Heung-shik's father also be the elusive owner of the former academy in the building next door to OK Aesthetics, the person with whom Lord No is supposed to be friendly?

I think that Heung-shik and Yong-shik were in the same grade, so HS would be younger than Hyang-mi -- who was in the same grade in school with Dong-baek.

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Yes! So pleased to see someone else considering HS's mysterious father. How much you wanna bet he has a hoarse cough?

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@lindag latebloomer,

I've been thinking about the cough, too. Five years have passed since Dong-baek's close call at OK Aesthetics. Could the Joker's illness have progressed to the point that he can no longer get around much? That could account for the lull in his activity.

Another possibility is that there is more than one Joker -- perhaps he has an "apprentice"?

I'm getting a little zing of ANTIQUE, too.

Or here's a thought: there is no Joker, it's all copy cat murders -- because Forensics goofed and misinterpreted the data.

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I like that thought, that he can't get around much. At the same time, he claimed to be watching her every day.

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@lindag latebloomer October 28, 2019 at 6:38 AM

Here's my candidate for the person who has been watching Dong-baek every day for 5 years, and who doesn't get around well:

In ep. 16, Dong-baek enters the Camellia with trepidation, and begins preparing the fish she bought that morning with Yong-shik. She turns on the TV, and sits with her back to the front door. (Bad move!) When the rice cooker suddenly blows off steam at the end of its cycle, she jumps. The bell on the front door tinkles, and a man with a hiking staff and ruck sack enters and asks if she’s open for lunch yet as he points his stick at a sign on the wall. She asks him to come back later.

I suspect that he may be the Joker, whom no one would expect because he walks with a stick. He barely spoke, so we don't know if he has a cough. He's old enough to be Heung-shik's father, so rates as an ajusshi. Hyang-mi would recognize him because he's a regular at the Camellia.

He could have been observing Dong-baek as he goes about his cat-feeding rounds. He hasn't necessarily always watched her in the bar. If he is indeed the party with whom Hyang-mi spoke in the alley across from the Camellia, it may indicate that he ghosts around at night. If he is the former proprietor of the Ongsan hardware store, he probably knows all the commercial buildings in town very well, which might be how he knew his way around Camellia in the dark to avoid the security camera, and to sneak over to burn the graffiti off the wall without banging into anything in the dark.

I have some more ideas on his potential cat-feeding activities, which I will have to keep mum about until a later recap.

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If she keeps saving her money just to pass it on, when she dies, his heart will ache.

Or, the old line

"Misers are no fun to live with, but they make great ancestors"

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"There’s no wrist grabbing in his repertoire, instead, a trusting outstretched hand. Is there anything not to love?"
🥰🥰 wow this hit me hard

nice recap

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I really enjoy your and teams’ thoughtful and thorough recaps of Camellia. This is my first time discovering deamabeans. I don’t often go searching for recaps or comments about the dramas I watch, but the Camellia story and characters have especially heighten my interest to see how others may be interpreting, anticipating and predicting of the storylines. Like you say we’ve come so far in the show but still know little especially in regards to the thriller element and how that will play out. But I love the way the story allows the characters and relationships to brew and simmer at a good temp and pace and not just boil :) the show is developing some wonderful flavors in people and their stories. It truly makes “everyone in Camellia feels so real and genuine, flaws and all”....not sure if I have watched a kdrama that feels as endearing as this in a while.

Especially, love your Comments on this ep 19-20. This drama has really drawn me in to the people and events of Camellia and this neighborhood of Ongsan (probably very much in the same way that it has drawn in Dong-baek with the familial warmth and attention of many of the people in it despite many of their rough manners). And I feel most importantly, Dong-baek herself who values so much the focus of family (and that is family going beyond just biological connection) has become one of the central provider of that familial warmth in this neighborhood that has been her and her son’s home for 7 years. Dong Beak’s warmth is of a strong but also very much gentler kind, which the people closest to her (her son, her mom, Yong Ski and his mom, and Huang Mi) value and is drawn by and the neighborhood people also know to appreciate even though they may not all admit it :)

I think the resilience of the main characters shines through as their story and determination keeps flowing and trying to blossom despite any hurdles and dark forces that may try to subdue it.

If Camellia and Dong-Baek and Ongsan was real, I would also want to go there to try Dong Beak’s stir fried pork and Deok-soon‘s marinated crab sets! :)

As for the romance story... I think you sum it up PERFECTLY in the description that “There’s no wrist grabbing in [Yong-shik’s] repertoire, instead, a trusting outstretched hand. Is there anything not to love?” .....that is love, in its most beautiful and graceful form. The attention and thoughtfulness on trust and respect is priceless.

Thanks much!

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Welcome to DramaBeans, @ LorNgn. Glad you found us. Thank you for putting in your two cents' worth. ;-)

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@ PakalanaPikake, Thanks for the welcome! It’s enjoyable reading the many feedbacks and different reactions to the drama and characters’ dynamics. And all the different Joker predictions from this point!.....we will have to see won’t we. :)

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@LorNgn,
By any chance are you a fan of Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan?

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@ PakalanaPikaka, hi, I didn’t follow the series so am not familiar. Your mentioning would be my introduction of Krevlornswath. From a quick search and read online, he sounds like a very interesting and peaceful character. I probably would be a fan of, if I was to watch the show. :)

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@LorNgn October 30, 2019 at 4:26 PM

Your handle reminded me of Lorne Greene, a famous American actor who starred in the Western TV series BONANZA in the 1960s. The green-skinned character known as The Host in ANGEL had a name in his home dimension that sounded like Lorne. He was indeed a wonderful character, portrayed by the late actor and singer Andy Hallett. ;-)

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Ah, Pilgu... that kid is too smart for his own good. The kid actor is another Yeo Jingu in the making.

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I think he is more akin to Yoon Chan-Young both in acting style and that YCY repeated appears alongside Park Si-Eun - just as Kim Kang-Hoon (Pil-Gu) already shares a number of drama credits with Seo Yi-Soo (Dong-Baek -child).

I have so appreciated Kim Kang-Hoon's (PG) ability to portray the messy undercurrents of being a child but never losing that lightness of childhood. He really can just drop the hammer without even missing a beat. OMG -that scene where he called DB out had such impact because it caught me unawares. It was never signalled and the emotions tread a delicate line between vulnerability, love and anger.

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@SadKdramaLama,

I agree that Kim Kang-hoon is giving a terrific performance as Pil-gu. That scene where he called out Dong-baek ambushed me, too. I did a double take when he turned up in MY COUNTRY as the young version of Sun-ho.

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@pakalanapikake
For me, this is the difference in the acting style.
Kim Kang-hoon - in his portrayals you can always feel the presence of multiple subtexts...and he can drop you into a new one in an instant. It was always there - it just becomes front and centre and the shock of this realisation is what drives our emotion

Where as Yeo Jin-Goo's acting is a masterclass in subtle micro-expressions. He can take you through a rollercoaster ride of thoughts in an instant. (which is why IMO anything he does to his face that inhibits those micro-expressions is so disastrous for his ability to sweep me along with him).

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It gave me a turn to see Dongbaek wearing the red dress from Rosemary's Baby. I am sure it was not coincidental. Ominous symbolism in the middle of one of Dongbaek's happiest moments, but why?

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@skidmoresy shari,
Thanks for pointing out the significance of the Dong-baek's red dress. I thought it looked vintage late 60s. How disturbing.

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@skidmoresy @pakalanapikake
I think this is a beautiful visual of how DB's new confidence is dangerous.

Sure, DB may be epically resolute and strong ("hippo") but no one would ever say she has an attacking instinct. Living her life labeled wangtta - she has never developed the skills to read when and how to be confident.

Interestingly, this is the exact opposite of YS.

I wrote this about YS for ep5-6
..."I think it's unfair to extrapolate [YS's] version of impulsive to then be at more risk of a mistake...The real risk of mistakes is when people act outside their normal behaviour. Eg. when hyper cautious drivers try to be aggressive. They don't know when or how to choose the moment. Naturally aggressive drivers actually read the situation and choose their moment.

Young-Shin is like the attacking forward - the goal sneak. This is where he is most natural and obviously where his timing and reactions are most instinctive."...

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@SadKDramaLama,
I like your description of Yong-shik as a goalsneak very much. (What a great term! I don't think there's anything like it in American football. The nearest I can think of is a fast, nimble, elusive defensive back who's a natural-born pass interceptor. In basketball I can imagine a player skilled at interception who scores.) When he is operating on pure instinct and "in the zone," such as when he's apprehending suspects, Yong-shik is unbeatable. It is in keeping with my sense that he would rate as an Intuiter on the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. He constantly reads his environment and misses nothing (aside from the things he is purposely ignoring, such as the puppy paternity case). No wonder he's such a good cop: the nunchi is strong in him.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/the-power-of-nunchi-the-korean-secret-to-happiness-and-success-an-extract/.
On the other hand, we've seen that Yong-shik is not 100% infallible. And even though I know that he has been sincere with Dong-baek from the moment he first laid eyes on her, I have been having twinges for some time now that one of his most heartfelt declarations (that he will never make her or Pil-gu cry) may turn out to have been Famous Last Words. Even as he spoke, I feared that he had just jinxed himself.

As for Dong-baek, she may feel confident, but that doesn't automagically make her competent. Interest in a subject or profession does not equate to having aptitude for it, no matter how much you love it. Some things cannot be accomplished with willpower alone. You have to have the chops for it.

Hippos are among the world's most aggressive animals. Dong-baek may be a mama bear when it comes to protecting Pil-gu, but there's no way she has the temperament of a hippo. Or is there? Is there really a hippo submerged beneath her wangtta exterior?

Regarding the scarlet dress, it turns out that Kate Middleton wore a red dress to the press conference announcing the birth of Prince Louis -- just as Princess Diana had worn a red outfit when his father, Prince William, was born.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/kate-middleton-channels-rosemarys-baby-costume-1106663
I never watched ROSEMARY'S BABY, so the similarity of the dress's collars went right over my head. I find the parallel with Princess Diana much more disturbing, however, because it was real life, and ended so badly. (And lest we forget, another commoner who married into the royal family, Sarah Ferguson, also was on the receiving end of malicious gossip back in the days before 24/7 social media.) There's an even more apt parallel between the princess and Lawyer Hong, who has been treated horribly by her snotty mother-in-law and husband, just as Lady Di was treated abominably by her cheating husband. The scene with Lawyer Hong was infuriating. Lord No's mother has been barging in on her son and daughter-in-law 3-4 times a week for how many years? It may be her prerogative to do so owing to filial piety, but it's no wonder there are no grandchildren.

On a happier note, this reminds me of the ardent Yong-shik and the object of his affection:
http://www.dramabeans.com/members/pakalanapikake/activity/914920/.

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For those of us who never watched Rosemary’s Baby, would you help out and provide a bit of context? Thanks.

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Part 1 of 2

Thank you for your recap, @fencejumper. I especially appreciate your explanation that Jong-ryeon misheard "2D1M" as "tofu." The subtitles I read did not make that clear, and I couldn't figure out why he was insisting the nickname was not so bad. Sheesh. It makes so much more sense now.

And thank you for explaining that the given name "Go-woon" literally means "pretty," which surely makes it look as if the waterlogged wallet Capt. Byun shows Yong-shik belonged to Hyang-mi after we see her wishing to live a life as pretty as her name. It occurs to me that there are two other people whose real names we do not know: Dong-baek and her mother. But given that the birth date on the ID card in the wallet is 24 December 1986, it couldn't be Mom. I think we're being trolled, however. It was stated in an earlier episode that Dong-baek was born in the winter, at a time when the camellias were in bloom. We don't know where she was born or how far north, so it's hard to pin down the range of possible birth dates for her. Here's a bit of background on when the plants flower:

Like round sindoors applied on the cheeks and forehead of a newly minted bride, camellias, with their red petals adorning yellow pistils, are flowers of purity and simplicity. They bloom from as early as November and carry on through February and March to the end of April. Camellias are winterflowering, but they could just as well be springflowering for blooming in February and March, the traditional month of spring. The season of renewal is upon Seocheon as early as late February as camellia shoots start to bud in this cozy little town huddled on the western coast of South Chungcheong Province.

Seocheon blooms with camellias
http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Travel/view?articleId=99032

I have a suspicion that Nak-ho the scary hair salon patron who overhears Hyang-mi's friend Sook-hee may be the "gaesseulegi" ["Garbage"] who sent her an angry text message in ep. 6. Considering Sook-hee's reaction to Nak-ho, it would be nice if she were to warn Hyang-mi that her hiding place has been blown.

I feel bad for Pil-gu as he deals with the vagaries of both his parents. Jong-ryeol is floundering over the discovery that he has an 8-year-old son, but is doing his best to have a relationship with him. The scenes in this episode between Pil-gu and his biological dad are really touching and hard to watch because of all the hurt and rejection. Kim Ji-suk has been playing Jong-ryeol in a way that makes me feel kindly disposed to him because he was kept in the dark about his son – although I think Dong-baek had a valid reason for wanting to protect her son from his immature father and nasty, judgemental paternal grandmother.

- Continued -

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Part 2 of 2

He may be immature and self-centered, but I think that Jong-ryeol hits the nail on the head when he calls Dong-baek on not understanding Pil-gu – especially as she is clueless that the boy has already figured out on his own that Jong-ryeol is his father. She is a lot less hip than she thinks she is. While I understand where Dong-baek was coming from when she decided to raise her child on her own, I feel more akin to Yong-shik, who innately recognizes that Pil-gu needs a father, and has already stepped up to the plate because he had a similar experience of being fatherless. Dong-baek has completely failed to consider that her boy needs a male role model in his life. It is something that no amount of maternal love can ever provide. (In that way she strikes me as selfish and short-sighted.) Yong-shik had Capt. Byun take him under his wing when he was in high school, and he has two older brothers, who presumably had quality time with their Dad before he died, so their little brother would have gotten some second-hand fathering. As an only child, Pil-gu has never had anything like that. I appreciate Yong-shik's generosity of spirit. He is sincere, and Pil-gu recognizes it. But he still hates men who like his mom. Or so he says.

In this episode, I also feel for Hyang-mi. Dong-baek knows that her employee is a kleptomaniac, yet she leaves Jong-ryeol's bundles of cash in the abalone box. If that isn't an occasion of sin, I don't know what is. Dong-baek should know better, as we’ve seen her attending Mass with her late aesthetician friend. Hyang-mi says as much as she complains that things like this are what turn people into traitors. Dong-baek may be viewing this as a vote of confidence in Hyang-mi’s ability to resist temptation, or some kind of expression of her unwavering trust in her employee. I see it as quixotic at best, and unrealistic, stupid, and even cruel at worst. It is misguided do-gooder sabotage.

-30-

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I think that both DongBaek and JongRyeol are pretty immature when it comes to their relationship, DB left him without a word, which probably has something with being abandoned as a child, and he not even try to adress that, as much I appreciate that he went head on into accepting being PilGu father without even thinking, I would expect that as responsible adults they wouldaddress that elephant in the room, which is their past and what lead to DB leaving him, to be able to move on now.

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@shach,

There's a parallel between Yong-shik still not knowing to this very day why his first girlfriend dumped him when she went off to middle school and Jong-ryeol's not knowing why Dong-baek suddenly up and left him. She never gave him a chance to deal with her dissatisfactions, let alone her pregnancy, and unilaterally decided to ditch him. It was the same way her mother abandoned her at an orphanage with no word of explanation or warning -- aside from instructing her to not reveal either of their true names (I suspect that Dong-baek is not her original name) or other identifying information.

We know little about Jong-ryeol's past, other than that he was a promising / successful athlete when Dong-baek met him at the age of 22. He inspired her with his appreciation of her cooking, which prompted her to open a bar years later. (In another parallel, she began serving lunch at the Camellia at Yong-shik's suggestion.) But we know nothing about his family of origin, aside from the fact that it / he moved to Ongsan for about a year when he was in middle school. Or might he have been staying with his grandparent(s) owing to family upheaval, job loss, etc.? Perhaps that is why he has such rose-colored memories of Ongsan. It may have been an oasis and refuge during a time of tribulation. -- Oh, wait, we saw that his mother hated Dong-baek, but was too broke to give her a white envelope full of cash to make her leave her son. Was she widowed or divorced?

I think it is telling that Jong-ryeol called Dong-baek his "Sunshine." For someone who had been so stigmatized for 15 years for being an orphan, what does it say about Jong-ryeol that she appeared to him to be the sunshine of his life?! I am reminded of this melancholic song. This is the first recorded version:
http://www.dramabeans.com/members/pakalanapikake/activity/913400/

I totally agree with you that Dong-baek and Jong-ryeol need to talk turkey about their breakup. Neither of them will be able to sustain a lasting, healthy relationship unless they clear the air and do some serious healing. If they are unwilling to do it for themselves, then they should seriously consider doing it for the sake of their child. They should seriously consider working with a good family therapist, and eventually include Pil-gu after they get their own heads together first.

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Very good point about JongRyeol, there is something about his hell bent conviction that he must do "the right thing" even after 8 yrs, him being already married with child and DB having another love interest.

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@shach October 28, 2019 at 8:01 AM

My gut tells me that Jong-ryeol and his mother were abandoned by his father. He knows the pain of being abandoned, and he would have done anything to spare his own child that kind of experience -- if only he had known he had a child in the first place. His particular blind spot is that he thinks of abandonment as being purely of the physical variety. He does not recognize the ways in which he was emotionally unavailable to Dong-baek when they were together. (To be fair, she never said anything to him about how she felt regarding their arrangement or his mother's hostility.) In some ways it is even worse than being alone. The person is physically present, but they may as well be far away for all the attention they pay their "loved" one.

What jumps out at me in WHEN THE CAMELLIA BLOOMS is how many fathers are missing in action, either through death (Yong-shik's father), abandonment (Lord No's father the womanizer) or some other situation such as illness, divorce, separation from the family as a gireogi appa 기러기 아빠, literally "goose dad", working overseas, out-of-wedlock birth, etc.).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gireogi_appa

Neither Jong-ryeol nor Dong-baek's father has been mentioned, and the same goes for Hyang-mi. And then there are all the menfolk of Ongsan, who have been denigrated and marginalized by the women, and live lives of quiet desperation.

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Ooh, @pakalanapikake, interesting take on the fathers in this show. Not one admirable father among them, though YS's father is not to blame for his absence. Just another little thing that makes me grin gleefully over my theory about Joker's identity.

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@shach

In this drama there is no single version of right...and more importantly, no-one's truth overwrites anyone else's version.

Lets not forget, wars are fought when two versions of "right" clash.

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@lindag latebloomer,

You bring up some very good points. I think it's a bit premature to discuss them in this recap, so hold those thoughts, okay?

As @SadKdramaLama stated in #3 above, with so much happening in the show now, it's a challenge to keep all the details and developments straight. Memories of later episodes' events have a confounding way of worming into earlier installments. It's making me a bit batty in MY COUNTRY, too. ;-)

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Oops. It's hard to remember what to leave out when the recap comes after the next episodes.

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Just a heads up for ep23/24 discussion.
@pakalanapikake actually called it in ep03.

I know - crazy.

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@SadKDramaLama
October 28, 2019 at 2:42 PM

Whoosh!

I have no idea what I prognosticated in ep. 03 -- and that's after going back and re-reading my posts 3x.

I'm glad you're keeping score, SKL, because I've drowning in information overload. ;-)

I'll be hanging by my thumbs (who needs tenterhooks?) until the ep. 23-24 recap arrives. ;-)

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@SadKDramaLama
October 28, 2019 at 2:54 PM, cc: @cubely Lelly19,

You hit the nail on the head re: the shifting context of scenes as they are later replayed inhibiting commenting, at least by me. I was under the weather for a spell and fell behind. Even when I was feeling better and rewatching to refresh my memory before reading the recaps, I felt as if I were drowning in details, and couldn't organize them or my thoughts about them. I began to feel like the aliens in MARS ATTACKS when "Indian Love Call" was played (i.e., head explodes in a shower of green goo).

It's really tricky to watch and comment on CAMELLIA because context shifts at the drop of a hat, and it's often so subtle that I can't quite tell what's different. Beware of scenes that look as if they're verbatim replays. They may not be.

In that respect, CAMELLIA reminds me a lot of BECAUSE THIS LIFE IS OUR FIRST. In that show, what we thought we knew about a particular character or scene would get reframed in later iterations and pull the rug out from under us. Several characters turned out to be not at all what they initially seemed. It was confounding.

OH HAE YOUNG AGAIN did something similar with Park Do-kyung's premonitions / nightmares of his impending death. He would get a vision, and try to change the outcome (as in lucid dreaming), but details in different versions of the vision were in flux. He felt physical pain, and time had a weird, non-linear quality. Some of these characteristics tie in with traditional storytelling and Korean shamanism, as was discussed in the OHYA recap threads. It was fascinating. And confusing as heck. But if you could stick with the ride, it was worth it, and it did make sense (at least to folks with a taste for metaphysics).

I totally agree with you about MAWANG. It was loaded with symbolism and gorgeous imagery, and you really had to pay attention to the nuances. It had an absolutely wonderful OST. As mentioned in earlier recap comments, MAWANG dealt with wangtta (that in turn led to revenge), which has been a significant theme in CAMELLIA.

KBS World TV offers MAWANG aka LUCIFER on its YouTube channel with very nice English subtitles. I had to watch the first couple of episodes a few times to take in everything that was happening, but once it got rolling, I was hooked. Daebak!
LUCIFER, Ep. 01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oHaBoXwSWs

Dec. 2017 MAWANG discussion thread starts with #13 in:
http://www.dramabeans.com/2007/04/devil-mawang-wave-of-japanese-support/

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..you didn't just spoil the next episdoes..... :(

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can't even type ><

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@cubely
Oh no...but don't despair. All is not ruined.

With this drama it is so difficult to step back in time because it is not so much episodic - but contextual.

I think this is why this drama is so interesting - and perhaps why the delayed recaps may be limiting the number of comments.

The more I watch this drama the more I realise how intelligently it has been crafted. Its not like FoS, or Misaeng where the craft is out front, this is in the vein of "Mawang" where it is subtly infused and so layered.

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Random Questions & Musings:

1. Was Dong-baek's mother hiding from a loanshark the way Hyang-mi has been? Giving Dong-baek up to an orphanage may have been her best option for protecting her from a murderous kidnapper.

2. Who is Dong-baek's father?

3. Was Dong-baek born out of wedlock?

4. What is the deal with Mom Jung-sook's eradicated fingerprints? Were they intentionally destroyed (by herself or someone else) to prevent her being identified? Or could they have been damaged by severe contact dermatitis, or possibly an autoimmune skin disorder such as psoriasis?

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Hmmm... I assumed her finger prints were worn/burned off from years working as a domestic helper. All that scrubbing and bleach, etc. I hadn't considered that it was for a nefarious purpose... That would make a lot of sense, though. She's obviously hiding something!

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@csmith CS,
No fingerprints = no positive ID.

It's not clear to me how Mom lost her fingerprints. Maybe there's a perfectly innocent excuse. But considering how she told Dong-baek not to mention their true names and birth dates to the orphanage officials, I get the feeling that she is trying to make it hard for someone to identify both of them.

Fingerprints come into play in a later episode, and may have a bearing. Or maybe it's yet another red herring.

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“ she told Dong-baek not to mention their true names and birth dates to the orphanage officials”

My take on that was if the authorities had that information, then they would be able to track the mother down and make her take back DB. SK back then (don’t know about now) was not big on taking care of either the elderly or the young if there were any living immediate relatives they could connect.

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@hebang,
That's another good point. At the rate CAMELLIA is going, maybe we will find out that Mom is still an evildoer. But I'll keep hoping she was trying to save her kid from some evil fate. ;-)

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@pakalanapikake

Another musing:
Yong-Sik & Captain Byun inability to smell...Such a huge blind spot for police investigating multiple arsons and the Joker. YS has already had to rely on secondhand info in his investigations. It just cast doubt everywhere.

Such an interesting flaw for our "bloodhound"

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@SadKDramaLama,

Omo! Yong-shik isn't a bloodhound after all. I guess we'll have to call him a mad dog.

It took me a while to realize that Yong-shik couldn't smell paint thinner. Is that maybe because he is chronically exposed to it, and has become desensitized? (That might account for Capt. Byun's being unable to smell it, too. I wonder if the other two cops are also desensitized?) Or is Yong-shik's sense of smell truly out of whack? But what is the chance of that also being the case with Capt. Byun? -- This is so strange, I don't even know where to begin. Is there some kind of conspiracy between the investigators from the Ongsan Fire Department and police forensics to stymie the Joker investigation?!

I'm really beginning to think that we cannot believe anything we're told in this show.

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I think the Captain knows/suspects a lot more than he’s let on.

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@hebang FlyingTool,
In retrospect, I think you're right about Capt. Byun. But why did he quit nagging Yong-shik about checking up on the puppy paternity case? Because he knew that Yong-shik is stubborn and not even wild horses can drag him when he's sunk his teeth into something else?

Just as Yong-shik expressed dismay at the thought that the Joker will turn out to be someone everyone in Ongsan knows, Capt. Byun felt the same way. We don't know much at all about Capt. Byun. I'm feeling apprehensive that one of my favorite characters may turn out to have feet of clay. Given the way CAMELLIA is twisting and turning, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

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I have mixed, diametrically opposed feeling on this.

1. I would be really unhappy if they brought in a new face as the Joker. Someone mentioned in passing like Hyungshik’s father may be marginally better. I prefer Joker type characters to be someone who was in view and there eww clues that at least in retrospect pointed at the guilty party.

2. Like you I really do not want anyone of the characters we’ve grown fond of to be the Joker. Which means it has to be a new face or someone only mentioned in passing.

We still have a lot of episodes left, room for a lot of developments. Actually, given the amount left, I’m somewhat concerned and intrigued about where this drama is going to go.

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@hebang FlyingTool
October 30, 2019 at 7:33 PM

I actually agree with you on #1. I cannot stand it when the villain / perpetrator is airdropped in at the last minute. Boo! Hiss! No deus ex machina, please, Writer-nim.

#2. Early in the show, Lord No hobnobbed at the Camellia with his politician buddies. I've been wondering if one of them could be it. I'm really most suspicious of the unseen academy owner from the building next door to the OK Aesthetics salon, and the elusive Yeong Shim from the puppy paternity case. I don't even know what to think about Dong-baek's mother and her frequent overnight forays. (Is she going for dialysis or something?)

I can't tell where the plot is going either. There is still plenty of time for revelations in the second half. I hope we learn more about Lawyer Hong, and also Jong-ryeol and Jessica.

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What I really want to know is why DB’s mother was so interested in DB’s insurance policy and finding her seal. It doesn’t take much imagination to turn out bad scenarios; I’m having a hard time coming up with a good one.

DB really doesn’t need a final betrayal from her mother.

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Maybe Mom is losing it for real, and has squirreled away savings that she wants to give to Dong-baek and/or Pil-gu.

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Thought of hat type of scenario, but as far as I know, mom would not need DB’s seal or thumb print to give her money - just the receiving account number and name.

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@hebang FlyingTool,
If Mom were opening an account for Dong-baek, would a thumbprint suffice? Or could she be giving her power of attorney over Mom's affairs? (Or would a witness or notary be needed for something like that.)

This is looking ominous. Maybe she's naming herself as beneficiary (instead of Pil-gu)?

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I think what I like about this drama is the whole idea, I believe the writer is such an interesting person and have a very interesting way of thinking, to write a story like this. It's not a full crime genre, nor it's a romantic kind of genre, though romance definitely fills in for the majority of the drama, sure it's a mystery but

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I am two episodes ahead/Netflix- so it is hard to comment because the next two chapters that come up... shed some light and also frustrate with how the story is progressing. However, I love this drama! I do believe that the mother will shine, in the end, why, I don't know, but I do think she has her daughters best interest at heart, or I am really hoping so. If she were " not good" I do not think she would be loving her grandson as much and taking care of him and helping here daughter at Camellia. Her leaving DB as a child must have been for some very strong, protective reasons. ( again, hoping this is the case ) I do also hope that the show will highlight in a positive way single parenthood and co-parenting, even when not being married. It's time to go beyond the same old - same old challenges and outdated belief systems that any and all societies have held and welcome in newness in an uplifting way. Predjudices towards certain things and situations is just behaviour that is learnt and passed down from generation to generation. There is great potential in this show to move in a new direction, I hope the writers are bold enough to go there. No matter what...I am enjoying it wholeheartedly.

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I agree @corman and believe and hope that the mother will shine through as well. Once she entered back into Dongbaek’s life, even though she seems to want DB to think that she has dementia (probably so that DB could be accepting of her), she really doesn’t show any need to be cared for. Instead, there is very much a focus to help and encourage DB in return. I also think she shows very firm awareness of the deep scars she has caused her daughter. And so it is her goal now to try to make up for a little of those pain and lost of years and like she keeps saying, she will do at least one thing for Dongbaek before she leaves.

Her mysterious behaviors may be related to one of the things she is trying to do for her daughter. I have just a wild hunch and wonder if it may have anything to do with her creating a life insurance plan to benefit DongBaek and Pilgu, or perhaps she has saved up a small fortune from the years of domestic working that she plans to leave for her daughter. If that could be so, that’s would great, but it’s still sad because it may not make up for all the lost years between them. Judging from her care and support of Dongbaek and Pilgu in the present, I also want to believe that her abandoning Dongbaek was for a strong and protective reason like you mentioned. Base on DongBaek’s memory shared when she encountered her mom again at the police station, it was recalled that her mom is known for owing money to others. So there probably was financial hardship she was escaping from and trying to protect DB from. Of course that is not a good reason that any child should have to understand and forgive when being abandoned, but that is the conditions that make up Dongbaek and part of who she is. We know it is also the condition that has surrounded her with much of the prejudices she has had to experience for a large part of her life and that has shaped some of her characters and meek behaviors towards others. Her trying and striving to overcome those prejudices and stigma of the society and their conditional effects on her, is what really affects me about this story.
Also the drama storylines show how sometimes the greatest prejudices can be place on a person by those that they love. And at the same time the empowerment to overcome prejudices can also come from those who love them.

I’m also eager to see the direction the story takes in regards to how the challenges will resolve. Of course there will be sad resolutions as we know there are already victims in the story. So no getting away from the consequences of that.

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beautifully written.

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Daaah I hate Yong shik he is so must crazy and obsessed person I wish dong baek could be back with Jong ryeol as he is trying his best to be a good father and lover yong shik ewww desperate guy

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it really bothered me when Jong Ryeol keeps questioning Dong Baek on why she's living her life like this. What's wrong with her life? Granted it's not perfect and she's struggling but i think she's done quite well with her limited means. At least she's managing her own business, they have a home and all their basic needs are covered. Pil Gu is a handful to handle but he's also really mature and perceptive for a kid. They're not doing too bad for JR to be all judgemental just cause he's got money.

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Oh God, the way I feel for these people...
I can't tell whether Hyangmi is a good person or not, but I think deep down she has a good heart. It's just that the circumstances she's in shapes her to snatch opportunities and use people whenever she can because she always needs to escape. But still, it's not an excuse to spread news about Jongryeol and Dongbaek or taking her money.

Yongsik wears his heart on his sleeves and can be very "demanding" and very persistent when it comes to expressing his feelings to Dongbaek. At first I wasn't sure if I liked him, but then the drama showed how respectful he is to Dongbaek and how thoughtful he is about their relationship. The drama revealed it to us right when I started to "consider" not liking him because I just don't like it when people force their feelings on people they like. Yongsik is very conscious about their boundaries, about all the battles Dongbaek needs to fight and that's so genuine I can't help but crying whenever they have a heart-to-heart talk. I cry a lot watching this drama actually, we all need a Yongsik, whether as a parent, friend, sibling, or significant other.

Kang Jongryeol... sighs... One minute I love him for genuinely wanting to connect with his son, and one minute he really frustrates me (disgusts is too strong of a word for now) with how he keeps pitying Dongbaek and addressing himself as The Great First Love. He just can't see her the way Yongsik does, and being pitied on is the last thing Dongbaek needs. I understand why Dongbaek wants him out of Pilgu's life, but I still think that he deserves to be his father although yes, it doesn't mean he can do things according to his own will. I love him as Pilgu's father (when he told Pilgu to just be a child... I sobbed), but I really want to love him as a person too. He's still the self-centered guy from their earlier days, and he needs Yongsik to punch him in the face and snap him out of his daydream. Jongryeol must stop telling people to understand him and wait for him, or he's going to lose his loved ones. I want to completely root for you, Kang Jongryeol, so please snap out of it.

Anyways, so happy for Jayoung! Kyutae is starting to reap what he sowed and my heart hurts for her because I know no matter how strong she's acting, she must be broken inside (why can't guys just accept it when their spouses are smarter and doing better than them? Why are they always busy seeking "respect" and validation from "weaker" people?! It's sickening). Looking forward to her plans to ruin Kyutae, I hope she and Hyangmi will join forces to do so!

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