Forest: Episodes 9-12 Open Thread
by missvictrix
Our rescue worker and doctor get closer this week, with events big and small pulling them together. Whether it’s because of panic attacks, rogue lizards, getting to know each other more deeply — or maybe even the forest — our leads have a push and pull relationship that’s beginning to ramp up.
EPISODES 9-12 WEECAP
Last week we left off with Young-jae’s OR panic attack, and San-hyuk comforting her, scooping her up, and taking her out of the stressful environment into safety. I’m a sucker for a good scooping, so I actually really liked this scene. Throw in the positive words of encouragement that San-hyuk delivers to jerk her out of her negative self-talk, and I can actually get behind these two.
The increase in their banter and bickering also equals an increase in their mutual attraction (so says a fundamental law of dramaland) — and we see this in spades this week. My favorite of these scenes was Young-jae losing her mind over a little lizard running around their living room. San-hyuk is covered in pain patches after a brutal day of rescue training, but Young-jae leaps on his back for protection while he tries to catch the lizard. They pause in expectation when he has it in his fist — only to reveal that it’s just the lizard’s tail. Hah, this scene is so ridiculous that I couldn’t help but enjoy it.
Later, they have a heart to heart over some delicious hotteok (my mouth was watering), and despite being a jerk most of the time, San-hyuk actually gives her some pretty decent advice for dealing with her past trauma. He also tells her that knowing one’s own limitations is wisdom, not cowardice, and I honestly quite liked the depth of this conversation. Whether the lizard tail analogy worked or not (still deciding), the midnight snack and conversation sure did.
The forest also has a bigger part to play this week. There’s a secret glen of sorts that I think is supposed to be an old growth section of the forest — its beauty is mesmerizing for Young-jae. But then again, she’s had an appreciation of nature from the beginning, whereas San-hyuk has never seen it as anything but a fight he has to win. Indeed, his corporate scheming is still happening on the side, and he’s secretly orchestrating things to ensure his development project is successful.
It doesn’t take a genius to see the conflict that’s being developed here — San-hyuk’s lack of respect for the forest as a living, breathing place is surely going to bite him in the butt before this thing is over.
Additionally, the forest also holds secrets from his own past. In one of the old growth trees he’s drawn to a familiar hollow, and finds a bunch of little “treasures” that I can only assume are from his secret childhood in Miryeong. Why has he repressed so many of his memories? Why does his sweet auntie continue to lie to him about his past? Why isn’t he more disturbed by all of this? We shall see.
The later at night I watch this show, the more I find I can enjoy it. While we did have some character and relationship development this week, I mostly felt like I was watching Young-jae act nutty (and Jo Boa overact) and San-hyuk slowly letting himself show much she amuses him.
We end this week’s episodes with a kiss scene that’s early in the usual drama placement — and it’s as spicy as it is completely cringe-worthy. Young-jae is still mad at San-hyuk for paying for a bus of patients to go to her hospital, and she mocks him by saying he doesn’t understand people and has never even been in love. Which she thinks she can prove by using her stethoscope to listen to his heartbeat as he responds to her physical closeness…? (Because if you’ve been in love before, you can control your own heart rate?) Ridiculous circumstances aside, it will be interesting to see where we go from here, since it will be more than a little difficult for them to back-pedal after all that kissing.
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Tags: Forest, Jo Boa, Park Hae-jin, Ryu Seung-soo
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1 LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 15, 2020 at 9:25 PM
But what about The Clams?
The Silence of The Clams.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 15, 2020 at 10:10 PM
All jokes aside, these episodes were the usual mix of utter boredom, eye-rolling directorial decisions, and excruciating romcom cliches. The lizard scenes made me want to stab something and I'm pretty sure that our female lead might be bipolar and spent most of this in her manic phase. I hate everything and hope to not still be here next week.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 12:34 AM
You have to be here. I need you to be here. My commitment to the Oppa Law is a lonely, solitary battle. I need you to stop me from breaking the Oppa Law.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 12:40 AM
He's not my Oppa...
But at this point I think Forest is like childbirth. It's horrific and painful but then I forget and decide to do it again.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 2:50 AM
I've run out of funny things to say, Elle. Is this a sign that I'm giving up?
shazzytree
February 16, 2020 at 3:32 AM
Thank god i found this.
proving that i'm still sane.
the drama just plain wierd.
For some unknown reason i keep watching it week after week.
it may sounds bizzare but i did do intense searching for the eng sub ... poor PHJ, he did everything to keep this drama going.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 8:43 AM
Thanks for this. I always thought other people's kids are more fun.
egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 8:51 AM
I actually didn't find childbirth itself that terrible, but the 30 minutes of Forest I watched? Yeah, that was bad. I'm not going back.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 8:45 AM
Fighting YY. You can do this. We need you. Thank you for doing this for us.
And I love you with all my heart.
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windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 10:22 AM
Hey, don't be so mean. I was probably one of those vicious Piranha Lizards that the forest is so well known for.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 6:47 PM
I am still waiting for your Bear of Doom and Rabid Duck to appear.
What I want to see: a sudden descent into horror. Crazy female lead dips her legs in the lake, talks, says something loud like, "WHY ARE YOU A LAKE, LAKE?" , the water ripples, Chucky's Concubine rises from the depths, roars, "I'VE HAD IT WITH YOU, YOU NOISY WOMAN!" , and she screams. The end.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:00 PM
Or zombies. Or since this is a magical forest, a zombie Ent? As @sicarius has often said, everything is better with zombies (paraphrasing a bit maybe).
windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 6:46 AM
It appears that the Bear of Doom had a previous engagement, or so it claims. It left a text message referencing something about Killer Klams...
💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
February 18, 2020 at 3:04 PM
A Zombie ent would be terrifying oh my gosh.
@hebang, the general rule of thumb is; If a show can't get any worse by having zombies, it will probably get better by having them, thus it should have them.
And also because the expansion of the Kingdom Extended Cinematic Universe is important.
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 12:40 AM
That poor clam. I felt its terror.
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Rei
February 16, 2020 at 6:32 AM
I searched. It’s possible for some species of fingernail clam to survive after ingestion by ducks, which fly to another body of water and somehow, the clams are left in the forest pond. But I am no forestry expert. Just curious about the clams....
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Rei
February 19, 2020 at 3:03 AM
@sicarius
I support you in supporting this Clam horrow show and The Return of Lizard series.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 8:58 AM
Do you think:
1. The clams turn out to be important somehow?
2. Yet another meaningless aside?
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windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 10:26 AM
I figure the clams have an enzyme that cures Ebola and Leprosy, that is the real reason the bad guys want the forest. It's all connected to Big Pharma somehow.
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Rei
February 16, 2020 at 10:30 AM
@windsun33
Wow!! That’s a good plot..
And I like clams a lot more compared to lizard
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OldLawyer
February 16, 2020 at 7:20 PM
There is already a cure for leprosy.
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windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 6:54 AM
Yes, but does that super doctor know that?
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 10:59 AM
Since she made a big deal about The Clams and then they had a closeup of The Clams and then he took a photo of The Clams, I can only conclude The Clams are important but in this show who knows?
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windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 11:45 AM
Perhaps this show is not really about a nefarious oppa and an exceedingly incompetent doctor - but about the CLAMS???
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 11:48 AM
On a mountain, there's a forest.
In the forest, there's a path.
At the end of the path, there's a lake.
In the lake, there is The Clams.
But they do not speak.
They lie in wait.
The Clams.
The Silent Quiet Clams.
windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 11:51 AM
... The Clams lie in wait for their first victim
FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 12:09 PM
@leetennant, your short poem is better than the drama! And the time spent reading it was far better spent than watching the drama...and no don’t ask why I’m watching whatever this is.
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 8:07 PM
The Silence of the Clams: Part 2
Setting: A lake
Open.
Shut.
Open.
Shut.
Squish squish squish
Burst of manic laughter
Oh, no
She's here
Who?
The noisy one
Quick, hide
Play dead
Shut
Shut
Shut
Shut
"I'M BAACKKKK!"
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:04 PM
Oooh... are we continuing Fake Poet February? Hmmm..... 😈
💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
February 19, 2020 at 1:15 AM
I support this Clam horror show.
FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 11:48 AM
A “rational” thread might be a rare and endangered species of flesh water clams becomes the road block to development.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 11:50 AM
Yes that makes more sense and will explain why they had cordoned off the lake in the next scene.
Beverly
February 16, 2020 at 12:03 PM
Or flesh eating clams.
Death by clam.
Even slower moving than a truck of doom.
Ok, I have to get out of here. I'm not even watching this.
OldLawyer
February 16, 2020 at 7:21 PM
I believe that you meant fresh water clams- which actually do exist.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:06 PM
I don't think the writer is going the "rational" route. Should we think about the irrational instead? Oh wait... we already did.
Or the CLAMS are actually a fish (aka red herring)
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:02 PM
He also took pictures of the forest, and we knew it's important. But did we know more than that? Nope. At this point, taking pictures is just a hobby.
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windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 6:56 AM
And if you look close at many of his shots, you will see that the camera clicks while he is bringing the camera down and moving. Gonna be some great blurry shots of suspicious trees I bet.
2 MikeyD signed up
February 15, 2020 at 9:28 PM
I find it disconcerting, as an American, to see these Korean actors with zero body fat. I think they ought to be obliged to gain ten pounds just so we can feel better about ourselves.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 9:00 AM
😂😂😂😂😂😂. Says me, carrying a few extra...
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windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 10:27 AM
Don't go to Taiwan or Japan either.
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3 Rumi~
February 16, 2020 at 12:15 AM
Uh patients bus & power of capitalism has what to do with heartbeats & love ?
Hey at least the forest has a pretty glade & Oppa has arms. I've been immersed in cdramaland these days so men with likeable bodies is like a rare sight.
YY's oppa is hot... I'm disappointed there's no constellations patterned CG fire this week... 😂
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:08 PM
You mean all those kissing is not 🔥 enough for you? 🤭
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Rumi~
February 16, 2020 at 9:46 PM
I'll have to watch more ig 🤷🏻♀️
The last kisses I saw in ongoing dramas were tepid & snoozy & the others were floppy fish & kid ones.
Thank goodness that TW dramas exist - they show good kisses. The intimate body language 😘😍
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4 YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 12:31 AM
Tell me, did Oppa's heartbeat
1. remain the same
2. speed up
3. not beat at all
during the Most Bizarre Kiss Scene Ever?
I say, 3. Oppa does not have a heartbeat. IMdid not hear a thing. This proves that he doesn't have a heart. True to the tag, "A man without a heart". Oppa is the Undead, guys. I knew it.
The Antics of A Deranged Female Lead
- Bug eyes
- Going, WHEEEEEE when she pedals her bike, legs in the air
- Hopping, skipping and humming on the pavement. A. Grown. Woman. Hopping. Skipping. Humming. In broad daylight. On a pavement.
- Screaming and screeching when she spots a teeny tiny little lizard. Poor lizard. No wonder it dropped its tail.
- Leaping onto Oppa's back
- Flirting with Oppa with a maniacal gleam in her eyes - run, Oppa, run.
- Drinking, getting drunk, LOUDLY in a public restaurant - this is a DOCTOR, mind you. In a small, closed community. Unleashing her wild side without a care for her professional image. And she has the cheek to gripe about the lack of patients.
- Dancing maniacally IN A PUBLIC PLACE IN FULL SIGHT OF THE COMMUNITY.
- Jabbering to the trees. Non-stop. And then she starts yakking away at the flowers. By the time she got to the clams, God, I want to cellotape her mouth. Oppa, please, tell her to tone down on the LOUDNESS. It hurts my ears.
-THE CLAM SCENE
Remarkably similar to Oppa's Coffee Scene.
Both bathed in a halo of light.
Except that Oppa had his eyes closed and he was steaming the plant leaves. She, on the other hand, was doing that inane, big-smile-on-face-look-at-me-I'm-so-happy-sweet-beautiful-you-can't-resist-me-oppa look. Grr.
THE KISS SCENE
Thoughts flashing through my head -
Stethescope
What?
Heartbeat
Bizzare
Oppa. Oppa's hand. Wait. Oppa? Did you...*rubs eyes* *blinks*
Kiss. Hot. Long. Real.
Last thought: WHAT WAS THAT?
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 12:38 AM
Oppa has a heartbeat, sorry. I think you were comatosed or something by that point; your higher brain functions shut down by the show so that you were unable to process anything you were seeing. Oppa had a heartbeat. It sped up. No idea what that proved.
Mostly my thoughts during the kiss scene were
God take those things out, that's so uncomfortable, how can you make out with metal prongs in your ears
This is actually a decent kiss scene
Did Oppa just go for some boob action? What even am I watching?
This Director ruins everything.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 12:45 AM
Oppa is disturbingly different. Oppa is doing things he doesn't do. Oppa is shy. But this new Oppa is not. New Oppa showers. Walks around shirtless. Wears a long towel instead of pants. And Oppa's naughty hand action. What is going on, Oppa? I am so confused.
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azzo
February 17, 2020 at 12:43 AM
It's like he's a whole new Oppa!
Confused with you!
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Rei
February 16, 2020 at 3:21 AM
I did wonder about the boobs part... it looked awfully close.....
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Rei
February 16, 2020 at 6:36 AM
With the thing in the ears, the least the director should do is to give some heartbeat sound effect...
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egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 7:01 AM
I watched because you were both talking about it, and wow, the complete and utter lack of any chemistry between the leads was unsettling. It wasn't just bad chemistry, it was a void of chemistry. Even the kiss. Yes, YY's Oppa appears to know how to do that, but even with his skill, it felt like a how-to video? (Is he maybe going through the motions to show potential future employers that even with this material he has the technical skill to do the job?)
@missvictrix, your weecap was 10000x more interesting and entertaining than the episode I watched, and I hope DB is compensating you appropriately for sitting through the drama and making you think thoughts about it.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 7:16 AM
I know what you mean. The way the camera focussed on Oppa, it was more like showing us how good he was at kissing. He took over the kiss, and she was kind of obscured by him? That's what I felt. Because I only remember Oppa kissing, honestly, and forgot her...but, hey, I'm biased, so it could be just me. Did she have the plugs in her ears? I didn't notice that. How awkward.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 8:25 AM
Well, he lost his heart. That's the premise.
Rei
February 16, 2020 at 10:40 AM
I don’t mind the camera focusing on him. I like Jo Boa’s tiny face but I love Park Hae Jin more...
Linda Palapala
February 16, 2020 at 8:44 AM
I feel like this drama is a parody of something, but I'm not sure what exactly.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:30 AM
We need a beanie quiz.
Is Forest a parody of something?
If so, what?
Looking for anything that even remotely is related some how!
Ayan
February 16, 2020 at 11:39 AM
Could it be making fun of the forest reality show with Park Shin Hye and So Ji Sub?
windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 11:46 AM
It's obviously a parody of Korean Dramas.
latebloomer
February 16, 2020 at 12:15 PM
It's trying to be a parody but it got lost in the forest. Parody of romcoms, parody of childhood tragedy, parody of childhood connections, parody of greedy corporate interests, parody of coincidences. Clues: PHJ with the coffee and the potted plant and the sunlight, the doctor with his origami, the hospital with no patients, everything about Ms. Enforcement, the whole idea that PHJ can win his deal by becoming a firefighter. A good parody is pointedly clear and hilarious. This parody just waves to you once an episode or so to try to convince you that in being so dumb it's actually clever.
Linda Palapala
February 16, 2020 at 12:31 PM
It's inadvertently a parody, accidentally a parody, etc.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 1:55 PM
I've watched many dramas, but can't think of anything remotely similar. Maybe this is just a documentary of making videos that they accidentally put together for release.
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 12:03 PM
I said that last week, egads, that this is some kind of audition tape for PWJ to canvass his skills. That's why his personality changes in every scene and he switches randomly from romance to action to angst to corporate shenanigans. He's trying to prove he can do ALL THE THINGS.
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egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 12:11 PM
Makes perfect sense. Truly the only explanation
Linda Palapala
February 16, 2020 at 12:53 PM
This reminds me of the kind of drama that the boss lady in Because This Is My First Life would write.
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 7:01 PM
You hit the nail on the head, Elle. This is the only explanation that makes sense. The many Oppas showcased. The mood swings from one Oppa to the next. Take that scene with the Metre Maid Forest Woman. It was bizarre. It lasted very long. I felt like I was watching a new drama where she's the lead. And his face was all cold and icy. So. Weird. But I get it now with your post. This is his agency's production. He is the star. He is what counts. Push as many Oppas as they can, to impress the public. Crying Oppa will appear in the finale, I guess, from the initial preview. I am so dreading that.
azzo
February 17, 2020 at 12:47 AM
I'm just asking, don't get me wrong, I will never attempt this but.. umm.. what is the penalty for breaking the Oppa Law?
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 17, 2020 at 1:00 AM
Oppa will be sad
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azzo
February 17, 2020 at 1:50 AM
And we don't want Oppa to be sad.
NO. NEVER.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 18, 2020 at 3:17 PM
That's it? I thought Oppa would be cursed for 9 consecutive dramas or something awful like that.
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 17, 2020 at 2:38 AM
*WHISPERS* Am thinking of making a run for it. Been thinking about it the past eight hours.
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azzo
February 17, 2020 at 3:04 AM
I'm very tempted, I admit!
Kairoskat 💐
February 17, 2020 at 7:13 AM
Fighting @yyishere and @azzo1!!!
windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 10:33 AM
I got here late, and you pre-stole all my lines. But I still feel forced to comment on the maniacal lizard misogyny. Not only was it totally over the top insane, it made me wonder how much longer I can keep up with this farce. And the clams..
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 1:57 PM
But I thought you are watching precisely because of these things. Please keep going. We need you and YY to keep going. I don't have any entertainment for wed-thu.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 5:13 PM
Almost on my last breath. Soon I will be one with the silent clams.
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windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 7:01 AM
OK, that comment won me over for at least half a day. :D
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5 Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 1:23 AM
I want an anaconda to slither in and be a threat, so @yyishere's oppa can showcase his rescue skills.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 1:31 AM
I wish an anaconda woukd slither in and cart her away. Far, far away. In fact, I wish an anaconda would slither in and cart EVERYONE away.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 2:10 PM
And the show is just about the anaconda? I think we already have a movie about that. Were there any dramas about it? Hmmm....
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Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 7:01 PM
The show will be about anaconda trying to eat female lead and male lead comes to the rescue. But male lead gets eaten instead. So female lead shrieked and screamed. Her voice was so loud the anaconda spazzed and released male lead. Male lead tries to burn the snake with his fire hands, but they're not working after he was eaten by anaconda. The snake insides, cured his fire hands.
But now both of them have fear for snakes and the colour green. So...they leave the forest. And the forest is nothing but a bad memory.
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windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 7:02 AM
I think this show might be a prequel to a new movie "Clams on a Plane".
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 17, 2020 at 10:45 AM
Hah. I'll watch it even if it's a documentary about fresh water clams. It's 10x more interesting and make a lot more sense than this
windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 10:38 AM
There are no Anacondas in that forest. In fact there seems to be no life at all except for a panicked lizard, a cute snake and some clams. In fact I don't think I have even seen a single bug. A bug-free primeval eco-forest - yeah, that happens a lot.
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Ayan
February 16, 2020 at 11:34 AM
Yes where are the spiders and the mites and the bugs? But no throw in a random lizard.
Maybe the actors had a no bug clause in the contract.
Fire hands, manic dancing great. Bugs - I'm out of here!
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 2:01 PM
And no other people except the doctors, a nurse, female officer and boss ,rescue team members and rich boy's dad. Were there no other people or a village nearby? If not, why do they even need a hospital there?
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Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 5:21 PM
The lizard was....bad cgi 😅
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:09 PM
Because *SOMETHING* ate them all.
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6 Mina00
February 16, 2020 at 1:59 AM
I am the only one enjoying it 😁 Because English subs are always late I watched the kiss without knowing what they were talking. I found it the best for sometime in drama land 😁 May be he really kiss not just lovmck his lips like many other does 😉 lizard reaction is also be me 😁
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7 Rei
February 16, 2020 at 3:19 AM
I was watching without the subs but I do see some improvements in the pacing. Ah yes the kiss was indeed spicy and I even checked out Park Hae Jin’s previous kissing scenes with other actresses. I would give this one the highest rating among all...
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Linda Palapala
February 16, 2020 at 8:45 AM
Wow, just, wow. How do you even check out other kissing scenes?
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egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 8:47 AM
You Tube probably
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Rei
February 16, 2020 at 10:36 AM
Yeah with Kim Min Jung in Man to Man....I prefer this scene, the stethoscope and hand are sexier.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:33 AM
It says something about the writing when beanies thing the scenes are better(?) without the subs...because, I agree, the words that led to the kiss scene...subtracted from the scene.
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Ayan
February 16, 2020 at 11:33 AM
I watched it raw and understood every other line and you could almost fool yourself into thinking their conversation made sense.
With subs, I have no clue what the writing was thinking.
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Ayan
February 16, 2020 at 11:51 AM
*the writer was thinking.
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 6:50 PM
"the writer was thinking" Why is that so funny?
Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 9:28 PM
Writer was thinking about thinking? Omona! Heirs dejavu 😖
💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
February 19, 2020 at 1:08 AM
Random but I've always thought it would be fun to "fan" fake sub a show, exactly like this. To make it better ofc.
Ayan
February 19, 2020 at 1:27 AM
Yes heirs antifans unite!
I know what you mean sic, I've wanted to try that with a few shows.
8 Ayan
February 16, 2020 at 5:32 AM
So I went back and read the previous recap because I forgot who Young Jae and San hyuk are and what happened. I remember fire hands and singing into a watering can
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Rei
February 16, 2020 at 10:43 AM
I feel sorry for both actors. They need a a better writer and director. Put any good actors in those scenes, they would look silly too.
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9 korfan
February 16, 2020 at 6:19 AM
Ok, so the editing is all over the place with this. What is going on?!
One minute Park Hae-jin is in the house. Then suddenly, he's walking in a lumber yard ..... doing what exactly?? Why was he there?! Was it that same day?? Was it another day?? I have no idea but even he looked puzzled.
Then in the next scene he's in the office putting beverage cups on his colleagues' desks. Huh? Did he finish what he had to do at the lumber yard during his 3 second walk there?
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windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 10:41 AM
The editing in this thing is some of the worst I have ever seen. But perhaps there simply were not enough good shots to even make editing worth while.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 2:08 PM
Your paragraph just sounds like a coffee CF. 🤭 I am imagining himsaying some cheesy line about coffee. Like "No matter what your day is like or what profession you have, coffee makes you feel better." Or "End your say with coffee!" 🤣🤣🤣
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10 Ayan
February 16, 2020 at 9:06 AM
I went back to watch the last 20 minutes of ep 6 and I still don't understand why she pulled out the stethoscope. It is such an awkward kiss scene and I think someone should have thrown the stethoscope away.
Was that supposed to confirm he fancies her or he is trying to carry out his undercover plan to buy the forest.
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Rei
February 16, 2020 at 10:37 AM
He fancies her. They like the same coffee.
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Ayan
February 16, 2020 at 11:27 AM
Of course! How could I forget, the coffee cup that brought them together.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 5:20 PM
I feel that the stethescope is connected somehow to the clams. I am expecting a dramatic climax where she rescues the gasping clams, whips out her stethescope, and listens to their heartbeats.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:11 PM
[Gasp] Clams CPR! Tell me when it happens. I'll watch that.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:11 PM
Is it too early to start the clam cult?
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 10:25 PM
For CC members: Don't forget to flash your clam tattoo at the door.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 11:18 PM
Does it has enough presence in the drama? Has it killed anybody or caused anyone to lose their life?
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 17, 2020 at 12:36 AM
Clam Zombies.
💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
February 19, 2020 at 1:02 AM
Apparently I'm missing out on ALL the fun... which is clearly in this comment section.
11 windsun33
February 16, 2020 at 10:45 AM
Well, at this point I am hoping that very soon the area will be ravaged by earthquakes, volcanoes, and typhoons and kill almost everyone. But not the Snake Loving Enforcement Officer - anyone that hugs snakes cannot be all bad. On the other hand anyone that goes into total panic over a lizard deserves the worst of fates.
It is getting increasingly hard to keep up with this horrible mess, even as a hate/cringe watch.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 12:40 PM
Well, we know from the opening act that there will be a forest fire. Only problem is the forest and the forestry warden, are the only characters I find ok.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 2:05 PM
They have to destroy every single good thing about them. Property of bad dramas.
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Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 5:23 PM
Fire hands will return! 🔥
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 6:35 PM
I only like the forest, the lizard and the clams.
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Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 8:48 PM
Poor lizard lost his tail 😢. Hopefully it will regrow next time lizard reappears.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:12 PM
Gawd. Not another shriek and scream!
azzo
February 17, 2020 at 12:51 AM
Oppa had the lizard's tail in his hand, maybe Doctor Young-jae can stitch it back together!
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 17, 2020 at 2:42 AM
Lol, @azzo1.
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 6:34 PM
That snake taking pic scene was so annoying. I FF it. The no-nonsense Metre Forest Lady suddenly simpers and poses and what the hell is this?
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 9:46 PM
A writer and director who have *NO IDEA* how to present a female forest warden who isn’t afraid of the animals living in the forest in her charge.
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windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 6:43 AM
The sad part is that was one of the best scenes out of all 4 episodes.
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Rei
February 18, 2020 at 12:25 AM
I agree. I can stand the OTP silly scenes coz they are cute. But not forest metre lady. At the moment she is more annoying than being useful.
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12 FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 12:29 PM
Our ML asks a very important (🤣) question. How is the forestry company making so much money when they are over paying so much for the logging rights? If this was a US drama, the forest would be filled with illegal crops, or drop zones for illegal stuff, or ... you get the idea. I wonder what will turn out to be the big money maker?
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 2:04 PM
The CLAMS.
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shazzytree
February 16, 2020 at 4:29 PM
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 9:48 PM
Genius! That’s why Ponce de Leon et al never found the fountain of youth! It wasn’t the water, it was the tiny fresh water CLAMS!
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 5:24 PM
I have CLAM on my head so much I read another post as CLAM LANDING ON YOU.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:13 PM
What a nightmare, but I somehow feel that is a better drama.
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💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
February 19, 2020 at 1:04 AM
*chokes whilst laughing*
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13 YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 6:27 PM
So, I asked this question in my first post - did Oppa's heartbeat speed up or stay the same in the Kiss Scene? And only @leetennant gave me a firm answer. She says Oppa's heart did beat faster. Which means, the rest of you do not know the answer. Hey, you need to watch this show for me, you hear? I depend on you guys to fill me in with the details. Tell me what's going on.
Why do I want to know about Oppa's heartbeat? Because the scene baffles me. I mean, I was expecting a very loud THUMP THUMP THUMP from Oppa's ripped chest - but what I heard - what I think I heard, I was in a heightened state of numbness by then, you see - was a whimper, soft and swift...I wasn't sure what it was...a heartbeat? A fart, released from Oppa's bowels?
My next question - I ask it every weecap. Does anyone notice that Oppa's chest moves before the rest of Oppa?
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 6:36 PM
Am I... allowed to answer? Or are we waiting for the hordes of other Beanies to respond?
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egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 6:37 PM
Comment was deleted
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egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 6:38 PM
First, I am not going to watch this show for you. I don't love or like anyone enough to torture myself like that. Additionally YY, since you are no longer an errand boy, I can't find a responsible delivery person for my dinner. So, I'm tired and hungry.
Second, what? His chest moves before the rest of him? Is he perhaps the host for a parasitic alien in his chest cavity?
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 6:43 PM
Literally no other human on the planet has noticed the weird 'chest' thing. We mostly respond to YY on this with awkward shuffling and an inability to meet her eyes.
Admittedly there's a superior version of this show whereby PWJ is a Clam Zombie with no heartbeat and a chest that moves before the rest of him aka The Middleman's Trout Zombies. But this is, alas, not that show.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 6:53 PM
*Imagines Oppa as a chesty trout with bulbous lips kissing Motor Mouth* *Shudders*
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 7:14 PM
Clam Oppa! I like! Oppa eats clams for dinner, turns into Clam Zombie. Oppa lurches through the trees, propelled by his GPS chest, pointing him to his first victim. No guesses as to who THAT is.
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egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 7:20 PM
*sigh
I miss The Middleman.
What about a Korean remake? Who shall we cast?
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 16, 2020 at 7:31 PM
I miss the Middleman too.
I can't imagine this working in Korea. They'd insist on some gross Ahjussi romance between Wendy and the Middleman or some love triangle between them and Manservant Neville, who is now a Chaebol.
What is the Korean equivalent of the Middleman's milk-drinking, non-swearing, square-jawed, lone Cowboy shtick?
Maybe Jang Ki-yong as The Middleman? I don't know about Wendy, we'd need a much-younger Jun Ji-hyun-type. I can't think of one off the top of my head. Who's funny but can also portray strong and wry?
I want Jang Dong-yoon to be Tyler Ford and Kim Byung-chul to be Manservant Neville.
egads aka Dame Maggie
February 16, 2020 at 7:20 PM
Yeah, this didn't get weird. Nope.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 9:41 PM
Anyway, next week, Oppa sticks out his tongue.
@leetennant @katakwasabi @windsun33 @msrabbit
@hebang
@azzo1
@shazzytree
@korfan
The Oppa Law decrees that I tag you.
Linda Palapala
February 16, 2020 at 11:05 PM
Just watched the scene - it was all weird. What director or screen writer would think the heart thumping a turn-on? Yuk and weird.
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Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 9:55 PM
I have to watch scenes to understand whats going on and contribute to the discussion though. Someone please gif oppas chest moving before the rest of him and the clam scene please, so I can see what is going on without actually watching the drama 🤭.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 10:01 PM
@azzo1...help
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azzo
February 17, 2020 at 12:59 AM
So I think I get what you mean YY, about Oppa's chest always moving before him, I think it's because Oppa has a backward head posture (Yes, I've been analyzing Oppa's movements). He stands straight, pulls his head back and pushes his chest forward and then takes his steps, and it comes out as we see it in the episodes. Also, maybe because he did a bit too many chest pull-ups?
I made GIFs, lots of them actually, to prove this.. will post them later!
FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:18 PM
You know you want to click on that play button, and join the discussion fully attuned to all the important points under discussion. Go with the pull, ...
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 10:32 PM
@sspat says the show has cured her insomnia. Even the thought of pressing the play button makes her sleepy. She is of the opinion that the show is an excellent sleep aid.
FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:40 PM
@yy. That means the clam germ cells have successfully invaded her nervous system, and have started to reproduce.
Need to ... st a y a w a .........
All hail the Clam Cult!
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 11:30 PM
I miss your gifs. Bobbybond was so much fun with your posts.
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Kairoskat 💐
February 17, 2020 at 2:10 AM
Please gif the scenes rabbit~ pretty please~~~~
FlyingTool
February 17, 2020 at 7:24 AM
My favorite from Vagabond is still your Bullet Chicken gif.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 17, 2020 at 10:51 AM
@katakwasabi I don't do gifs. 😕 plus, I have to watch it at least once to do that. Not.going.to.watch.
I was hopind you'd watch and make some amazing gifs out of it. From the comments, this sounds more entertaining than Vagabond.
Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 8:59 PM
Oppa heart did beat. It did when female lead inched closer. But it didn't beat when she first listened to his heart. He has great control of his heart beat.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 9:18 PM
That's because he didn't have a heart before. He lost his heart. FL transferred a heart to him through kiss, ala Candy Kiss in Iris
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Kairoskat 💐
February 16, 2020 at 9:31 PM
We don't know that yet. We didn't hear oppas heartbeat in that scene. The stethoscope was on female lead's....umm....chest.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 9:41 PM
Technically, but not really.
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 9:54 PM
You mean, boob. Say it, Kat. The B word.
azzo
February 17, 2020 at 1:01 AM
I was disturbed by that scene.. where are you placing the stethoscope Oppa?!!!
Rei
February 17, 2020 at 6:07 AM
You have to turn up the volume... then you can his heartbeat and later, hers...
I will rewatch the scene, to analyse the heartbeats
FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:31 PM
The sound track leading to the kiss has some muffled sounds that i *think* were supposedly stud-ly THUMP-thumps. They were possibly the worst heart beats I can recall hearing. And strangely enough, they chose to leave off the thump-thumps during the kiss. I mean they went to the trouble of putting a stethoscope on PHJ for god’s sakes, and left off the heart beat during the kiss? Who does that???
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 10:37 PM
So the stethescope was plugged into his ears? And when he touched her b... part, it was still plugged into his ears? When he kissed her, it was still plugged in his ears? I need to know. I can't rewatch that scene. I don't want to.
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:44 PM
Plugged into her ears. And when he placed the diaphragm on her b..., it was still plugged into her ears.
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azzo
February 17, 2020 at 1:02 AM
So he'd prove what exactly?
Her heart beats, too?
They both have beating hearts?
Kairoskat 💐
February 17, 2020 at 1:05 AM
@azzo1 the premise is she has a heart, he hasn't. Maybe he wants to steal her heart.....is he a gumiho?! 😱
azzo
February 17, 2020 at 1:49 AM
@katakwasabi But.. but Oppa's heart was beating when she put the stethoscope on his chest, meaning he has a heart already.. where did he get this one from?
I'm confused!
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 17, 2020 at 2:47 AM
@azzo1 I'm thinking he has a mechanical heart. He is actually DEAD. He died years ago. In a fire.
Kairoskat 💐
February 17, 2020 at 2:52 AM
Wait.....is he edward scissorhands twin?!
azzo
February 17, 2020 at 6:30 AM
@katakwasabi Nope. He's just Oppa Fire Hands!
Lily left the valley
February 17, 2020 at 5:25 PM
@katakwasabi gentle reminder: gumihos eat livers, not hearts. I still laughed, though. ;)
💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
February 19, 2020 at 1:06 AM
Not knowing what is going on makes this thread so much funnier fdkajdkfa lmaooo
Kairoskat 💐
February 19, 2020 at 4:51 PM
Lol! Thank you for the reminder @lilyleftthevalley 😆.
mugyuljoie is preciousss
February 17, 2020 at 4:33 PM
Your Oppa needs an anatomy lesson.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 17, 2020 at 4:39 PM
That depends on what's he's trying to do...
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 10:41 PM
See? This is what I remember. The sound was muffled. I didn't know what it was. And if it wasn't clear that his heart was thumping - give us a loud thumping, for crying out loud if you want to show that his heart is beating fast - then what is the point of the stethescope????
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FlyingTool
February 16, 2020 at 10:50 PM
The diaphragm of the stethoscope was on his chest before the kiss. It was NOT on his chest when the kiss began. And HE placed the diaphragm on her b... during the kiss.
I suppose he meant for her to hear her heart beat accelerating, but...I didn’t hear an acceleration. I heard a steady heart beat.
The scene was just strange.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 16, 2020 at 11:24 PM
Ah. So Oppa wants to prove that her heart beat speeds up when he leans in close and touches her b...part. And I remember, he stalked off, stopped, and turned back, and pulled her into his arms. That part was awkward. I remember the almost similar scene in M2M, in front of the cafe, when he whipped around, strode to her and hauled her into his arms. Now, THAT was cool. Smooth and slick.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 16, 2020 at 11:23 PM
A device for narm.
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windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 7:13 AM
Those were not heartbeats. They were frogs struggling to get out of that secret underground basement. They were pitifully kicking their tiny legs against the floor in a vain hope that someone would notice how all the forest creatures have been imprisoned (which also explains why there are no forest critters).
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14 Bob
February 16, 2020 at 9:50 PM
After all this, I still judge 'Melting Me Softly' as retaining the crown of WORST DRAMA. Though it has admittedly been a very hot competition this year for title (and we're only halfway through February!)
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 17, 2020 at 4:48 PM
Me too although I can't explain why. This is just as bad in all technical aspects but somehow Melty is worse. I think it might have to do with the power imbalance between the OTP and JCW's dumping his old girlfriend and then going straight for Candy 10 seconds later. As bad as this show, it is a romance between two adults. Two insane, annoying adults who have new personalities every scene. But adults nonetheless.
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AsianDramaniac
February 27, 2020 at 1:46 AM
Haven't seen Melty becoz of the unfavorable reviews... but if I have to name one of the worst Kdrama viewing experience in recent years it would be The Bride of Habaek. Forest is not half as bad. At least the plotlines keep progressing bit by bit, though sometimes unnecessarily convoluted, cliche and inconsistent. The rescue team and forest settings are rather new for me. Habaek has a nice mythological shell, but there was no story to tell at all.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 27, 2020 at 1:50 AM
Ooh I haven't seen that. I have been tempted recently to binge it and hang out at the recaps and drive the site crazy while they witness my descent into insanity a la Heirs.
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15 miso
February 17, 2020 at 3:32 PM
As someone with an intense phobia of lizards, I fast-forwarded that scene immediately and somehow I STILL know Jo Bo-ah overacted the scene to death. It feels like she's in a completely different drama from PHJ - everything she does is dialled up to 120.
At this point I'm only here for the comments and the kisses - even if they're driven by cringeworthy dramatics
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windsun33
February 17, 2020 at 5:14 PM
Why would anyone be afraid of a lizard? Except T-Rex maybe.
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miso
February 17, 2020 at 9:02 PM
You sound like my Dad - his default response to me shrieking at the sight of a lizard is to ask "why are YOU screaming? to the poor lizard, you're probably the size of a dinosaur. imagine how scared it must be!"
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Rei
February 18, 2020 at 12:21 AM
I am terrified of lizards too... it’s not that they would bite... but the feeling something crawling on me is scary. And I would do the same like JoBoa, jump into the arms or back of Park Hae Jin and grab onto him...
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 17, 2020 at 5:55 PM
One of the earliest memories of my childhood was of a lizard scampering away on the stairs, and something left in its wake, wriggling. I stared at it, and realized it was a tail, still alive, still trembling. I shrieked, and ran off to tell someone. Did I stand there, shrieking and shrieking for an eternity? No. The child that was me did shriek. But it was a normal shriek. And it lasted for a second. And, no, I did not leap on anyone's back. I shrieked a short shriek, and ran, in the opposite direction.
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FlyingTool
February 17, 2020 at 7:05 PM
Clearly, you are not a damsel in distress type. Much more the sensible type.
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YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 17, 2020 at 7:43 PM
@leetennant is giving up on Oppa. I can't do this without her. I can't. I can't. *wrings hands* *wails*
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FlyingTool
February 17, 2020 at 8:54 PM
But she’s said that before...every week, right? All it will take is a few trashy (really really trashy) gifs...no?
FlyingTool
February 17, 2020 at 8:58 PM
Oops, I just saw the Exception post!
YY Chats with Toast Between Bites
February 17, 2020 at 9:00 PM
@hebang Thing is, she seems to mean it this time. *CHEWS CUTICLES NERVOUSLY*
FlyingTool
February 17, 2020 at 9:27 PM
Well, if I squint a little, I *could* read the creation of the exception an act of mercy for YOUR mental health reasons...not hers?
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 17, 2020 at 9:56 PM
He's not my Oppa.
I was always free to drop it at will.
The exception is for YY.
As to what @hebang said about my weekly determination to drop the drama - I resemble that remark.
Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 17, 2020 at 9:57 PM
I think she is still going to be around for Clam Zombies. Let's pray that they are what it is
miso
February 17, 2020 at 9:01 PM
I once saw a lizard a few cms from my foot, at school, which ended with me standing on my chair and screaming so loudly that even teachers on the floor below our class came to check 😐
I guess what I'm saying is - I don't judge the freakout but I do assume JBA acted it out badly 😛
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 17, 2020 at 9:56 PM
That's because you don't have to wait until the director yells "Cut", and you don't have to stay within frame.
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16 Slither 2020
February 18, 2020 at 9:01 AM
Asking questions are really fastidious thing if you are not
understanding anything entirely, except this piece of writing
gives nice understanding even.
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17 BdxPelik
February 18, 2020 at 12:22 PM
The hotteok scene. I loved it. 1. Cuz I made it once and 2. Seeing the vulnerable side of San Hyeok. I love it when he talks about his grandmother and just know instantly that she was the most valuable person in his like. His innocent smile and malice disappearing completely.
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18 💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
February 19, 2020 at 1:00 AM
So people actually watching this: is it worse than Melty yet? ;)
*don't mind me btw I'm just cry laughing over the fact this apparently has a 4.1 fan star rating*
I know I said I would watch this... well I'm sorry but I lied.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
February 19, 2020 at 3:26 AM
On paper it is as bad as Melty and yet somehow it isn't as bad as Melty and I couldn't tell you why.
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spicykimchi
February 19, 2020 at 6:54 AM
Can anything be as bad as Melty? I think that show has created a new low. What an utter waste of talent, time, and money it was.
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rue
February 19, 2020 at 8:12 AM
Oppa Law says(at least I think it does. I haven't read it in its entirety) I should object, but my conscience says otherwise.
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Ms. Rabbit 🐇
February 19, 2020 at 7:28 AM
I think Melty's jokes were tasteless, some were unintentional and a little insulting. This show's jokes are just not funny, and you could tell they are trying too hard.
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19 OldLawyer
February 19, 2020 at 10:09 PM
So where is this going?
Clams? Are they significant? or not?
The final kiss scene at the end of episode 12 was somehow- well done but baffling. I do not buy the relationship between our main leads. What a waste of Jo BoA's talents.
Contrast to our main leads relationship with the budding romance between our lady Forest Ranger Oh Bo-mi and Choi Chang from the rescue team. You can see that Choi Chang thinks that he is supposed to pursue Dr. Jeong but the truth is that Bo-mi is charming the socks off of him. They have reached to point where they are talking about what things are important to them. And lets face it- how could you not like a lady who plays with snakes?
There are a lot of loose ends and logical questions unanswered, like why is it necessary for the rescue team to move? Given that your resort will probably need a helicopter service would it not make sense to approach them with a cost sharing deal to share their existing airfield- and save money not only for the resort but also reduce costs for the Rescue Team?
Somehow we keep watching this show- and I am not sure why.
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20 💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
April 27, 2022 at 6:19 PM
I like to pretend this drama doesn't exist, but MAN, is this thread iconic.
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egads aka Dame Maggie
April 27, 2022 at 6:46 PM
This was TWO years ago? It seems like it's been more than that, but yet not? The before times were wild. WILD with forest clams and truly horrid acting.
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💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
April 27, 2022 at 6:54 PM
Time isn't real, I know. I blame the Zombie Clams.
I just... don't count this in either of their filmographies if I'm being honest. Idk what happened but I still sometimes think this show was a deliberate joke.
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21 💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
August 9, 2023 at 1:22 AM
Top Ten Most Iconic Dramabeans comment sections? Easily.
Except there's probably a lot more than Ten Iconic ones so maybe Top Twenty? 😂
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
August 9, 2023 at 2:21 AM
Clam Zombies! Vibrator Man! Squirrels driving backhoes!
This and Vagabond are definitely two of the best. Or possibly just the weirdest...
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💜🍍☠ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia ☠🍍💜
August 9, 2023 at 2:58 AM
Just an all round good time! ... for dramas that were not.
Weird and Best are not mutually exclusive.
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