https://mydramalist.com/article/how-are-you-human-too-breaks-the-laws-of-robotics-0731182712

A very interesting write up on the premise of AYHT. I didn’t know about Asimov’s 3 laws of robotics and the short story on a robot named speedy seems really interesting which I plan to read soon. But the writer has made some really interesting observations and in the process mentioned some of the issues I had with this drama. Check it out if those who are watching the show have time. 🙂
But regardless like the writer I also agree, in the end, it’s a good show, just with some glaring inconsistencies. Some words from the post that are food for thought.
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While the writer should be free to do what he wants, he should also be consistent within his own universe. The problem I have with this show, as much as I like it, is that we’re told Shin has to follow rules, then he’s made to break those rules. It doesn’t even appear that the writer did this to show that Shin is growing and changing. Often, Shin will follow some rules and break others, meaning the author is picking and choosing when the rules apply and when they don’t.

If Shin has to follow a set of rules similar to Asimov’s, then sentience should not result from the paradoxes he faces; he should be running in circles. They could have solved this problem before it even existed by directly stating that Shin is not beholden to all rules and directions. If he’d started sentient, there would be no issue, but because he doesn’t, issues are unavoidable. Asimov’s laws (and by proxy, the laws governing NS3’s actions) are fundamentally broken and were meant to show the pitfalls of trying to codify morality, but AYHT?’s writer seems not to have understood that these laws aren’t viable. It looks to me that telling his story while following the laws got too hard, so he jumped ship and forgot about the whole thing. That is not good writing.

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    Oh snap. I actually have a copy of the book lying around. I think I will read it before watching the show. Gonna save the article for future reference too.

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    This is how I see it: Shinnamon was like an obedient kid at the beginning of the show. He liked to follow the rules because it made Laura and David happy so he always followed them. However, once he got to Korea and met SoBong, he started to rebel a little. He sometimes did what he wanted to do instead of always going by the rules. I think of this as his rebellious teenage phase. Now, after almost being forced to kill people and overriding manual mode he is questioning the “rules” even more and is becoming an adult.

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    I have a lot of problems with the show and its writing. But my problem is the opposite of yours. I see Shin as constantly following his program even when the show wants us to believe he isn’t. So while I see self-awareness and sentience, I don’t see consciousness or a determination to break his programming.

    It’s like the scene on the roof with Sobong. Everyone was like “love conquers all!”. All I saw was an AI fighting what was essentially a hack and finally succeeding by reverting to its core programming directive i.e. hug a person who’s crying.

    It’s also like his ‘relationship’ with Sobong. He was programmed as a replacement child. That is, he was programmed to unconditionally support and obey one person. He simply shifted from his mother to Sobong. He wasn’t ‘rewriting his program’. He was simply obeying a new master.

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      I totally agree with you that this was what he was doing. Especially as this situation was hitting both of his core rules: hug someone who cries & protect Sobong.

      I also really like that he’s obeying a master who tells him to break the rules every now and then – and so he does. Which must be a total mindfuck if you’re an AI.

      That said: if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, who’s to say it’s not really a duck? I do also like Sobong’s interpretation that actions are what matters.

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        I do too. Or rather, for me, it’s that as a person we have to respond to his behaviours as we do to a person’s because the alternative is to pick and choose when we behave like a human being.

        This is the classic paradox of Cartesian dualism – we can’t see a person’s consciousness, we can only see their behaviours. If Shin behaves like a person with emotions then that’s how he should be treated.

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          And I haven’t heard the term Cartesian dualism since I did a few philosophy courses at Uni a while back.

          Gotta love dramas that tell interesting stories and also inspire interesting debates.

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      @leetennant Haha I really want to take part in Cloggie and your conversation except that I feel like you are talking about some maths I don’t understand. 😛
      I do know that I agree with the writer whose post I shared. I also agree with what you said too. Especially last part of your statement,
      ‘All I saw was an AI fighting what was essentially a hack and finally succeeding by reverting to its core programming directive i.e. hug a person who’s crying.’
      And , this, ‘He simply shifted from his mother to Sobong. He wasn’t ‘rewriting his program’. He was simply obeying a new master.’– Exactly, but I wouldn’t say he developed sentience, rather maybe all along all he did was mechanically acting according to his programmed version and maybe breaking the rules whenever possible.
      Although erm, just cause he looks like a human, is he a human? I don’t think he is, :S. Like the writer of the original post said, if this was a fantasy I think I would leave my brain out of the door and digest anything that has been said and done by nam shin III, but they say it’s a Sci-fi, and that’s why when the rules are not being followed and kind of convoluted it’s hard to buy the logic behind it or the reality of the story. Like Ioved Edward Scissorshand and although he was a robot, we knew he was created with the function of love, so it seems like we were in another kind of make-believe world. So we already knew we were not supposed to ‘question’ the algorithms the laws were based upon. But that’s not the case here.

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        Like I loved.*

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        It’s common for people to use the world ‘sentience’ when they mean ‘sapience’ so it can cause some confusion. Sentience just means that he has senses – that he is able to perceive what is happening in the world around him and respond to it. Sapience is the ability to think and to reason. Common wisdom is that every animal is sentient but only humans are sapient.

        So NSIII is sentient but is he sapient? That’s the question.

        The show was quite clever to bypass that question completely by saying “it doesn’t matter whether NSIII is conscious or has emotions, what matters is how he behaves”. NSIII is not a human, nor does he have feelings. But since he looks and behaves like a human then, for the purposes of how we treat him, it doesn’t actually matter.

        Both this show and Westworld are trying to frame an android’s programming as a kind of childhood – it’s the basis of all our behaviours and we’re bound by it whether we want to be or not – but in the end we grow up and are able to amend that programming or re-enforce it if we choose. But whereas I think Westworld is pulling it off, I don’t think this show is.

        We can argue about why that is, but for me it’s because it’s too busy being a kdrama.

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          Wiki says sentience means the capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively..the ability to feel, which is different from the ability to think, that is sapience. Thanks for the heads up about sapience, but , is nam shin a sentient either? Because we know he understands the emotions but he can’t feel them right?
          The show was quite clever to bypass that question completely by saying “it doesn’t matter whether NSIII is conscious or has emotions, what matters is how he behaves”. – True, but when he makes interesting questions like, I feel like I must stop you from going to human nam shin, is this jealousy? I don’t understand how that works for him really. Also grandpa tells him to keep it a secret that he has dementia, but he gives it away to young hoon and so bong in time of emergency like humans would do, so it does seem like the writer applies and creates new rules whimsically without giving any explanation why the robot is working this way.
          But I didn’t know about this concept that animals are sentient beings, and have some level of consciousness. Very interesting indeed!
          I haven’t heard of Westworld but I will check this out, thanks for the name! I think you are right about this drama is being too busy being a kdrama lol, but still, I commend the writer for trying to do something different. 😀

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      I hope both of you still read the original post!

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    Love a mention of Asimov anywhere. I’ve grown up on Asimov and his Laws and reasonings.

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      I discovered him in childhood but then was scared of the too high thoughts lol. I think it’s time to take a second look. Would love to get some recommendations from you about where to start!

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        Hmm it depends on whether you are more into robots or space-travel.

        My own personal favorites are the four volumes of robots series:
        Caves of Steel
        Naked Sun
        Robots of Dawn
        Robots and Empire

        And there are lots and lots of robot short stories, or just futuristic ones, most of them very good.

        For non-robotic themes The Lucky Starr series is kind of a simple young adult space-travel series.
        Pebble in the Sky
        and
        Stars Like Dust
        are space-based too.

        There is a whole series named Foundation which Asimov later listed chronologically based on their story-lines, including most of other stories he had written. As a whole series it is quite daunting but each book can be read and enjoyed by itself.

        Now that I think more about it, I’m nearly certain that the best place to start is the short stories and the Lucky Starr series. It is better to get the high thoughts in smaller doses 😁😁

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