I think that male members can be infantilized as well. Some may just be really young/teenagers, while other’s play up the child like image.

Interesting topic!

I haven’t heard of this group, since I don’t follow kpop but here is what I think (from what I have seen):

1. Too many members in groups, and all groups sing similar styles of music, so there is a glaring lack of individuality or genuine talent. It all feels more like a dance show to sell to teen girls, rather than genuine talent.

2. I hate the inserting of rap verses into almost every kpop group song, because they have to give rappers something to do.

3. A lot of dancing… I wish they would focus more on individuality (solo singers or small groups no more than 3 members) and music/creative ability, instead of wasting so much time on dancing techniques and forgettable/generic music.

4. Shameless promotion of boy groups for female audience (especially teen girls), this is something that is rarely found in western music or programs. So I would say that this is a pro of kpop instead of a con, just because they openly pander to teen girls and give teen girls entertainment.

5. They not only sexualize kpop boy groups (which doesn’t sit well with me), but they also sell a fantasy relationship between the boy group members and the fans (because they realize that girls’ fantasies are not just sexual but are sexual within a relationship frame… girls focus more on relationships as a whole where they feel loved and where they love). This is also why female fans of boy groups tend to be more loyal, and have strong ownership mentality over the group they stan. This I think is also why these idols have a no-dating clause in their contracts, because they are not really selling music but a fantasy to teen girls especially. Now this I find to be equally exploitative of the boy groups and the gullible teen female fans, but I still find it refreshing that they openly pander to female fans.

6. For female groups I like that the kpop presentation is more grounded and a lot less trashy, when compared to modern western female singers. Often kpop female singers are presented as pretty or cute, instead of sex objects. I can’t stand many Western female singers, not only because I find their music vapid and empty, but also because of the hyper sexualization and trashiness they present (and what’s worse is they try to sell it as nonsensical empowerment to the gullible) – which is not only exploitative to themselves but also harms normal women who want nothing to do with these vulgar images, and who want to be seen as human-beings with dreams, wants and needs of their own. I hope that kpop girl groups and solo artists will maintain their dignity, and not go too far. But I do find a problem with the infantilization of kpop girl groups, cuteness is fine within limits. When infantilization happens in-your-face, then I think there is a problem there as well.

Wow, this post turned out to be longer than expected!

I agree. It feels disorienting sometimes to watch girl groups’ videos when they are infantilized dancing with aegyo gestures in hypersexualised outfits.

I think the Bowie and Jagger comparison might be more apt than you think. Just because Korean male idols are presented as softer due to styling, that does not take sex out of the equation. Take SHINee’s Taemin for example. In his MV for “Move” his look was his normal softer and pretty self, but is attitude and presentation was 100% sensual and sexy. Given that example, presentation of masculinity, and masculinity itself–as well as femininity–exists on a spectrum. You don’t have to be a tall deep voiced rugged six-pack gruff man to sell sex. On the female side of things, there’s Amber. Granted, she is quite rare, but she’s not your typical female idol, but she has a ton of fans.

MV’s are what the average viewer will know about K-pop. Live concerts are a totally different beast. Those same not so sexualized men turn the dial up straight to 100. Take GOT7 for example. I don’t think I’ve come across an MV with any of the members doing anything sexual or baring much skin like my earlier Taemin example. Live however, they bare the skin and they do the crotch grabs and hip thrusts etc. as in this example. They aren’t the only ones though. I can give you a ton of examples. The “more masculine” idols do it too, as with Gikwang in this example.

I disagree on limiting the female gaze to teens–and females in general–while opening the male gaze to a wider age group. It may very well be true that more older men may be “guilty” of the male gaze with idol groups, however there are many older women who objectify male idols as well. What about those same teen girls who get older right alongside their idols? I’m not saying that what you said is similar to the following, but, similarities can be drawn to rape. Just because fewer women commit rape does not mean that it is not an issue or doesn’t exist.

I both agree and disagree with you about the average dance routines and what is expected from male and female groups. I’m often annoyed with the overall same presentation of choreography with female groups being often limited to the same move-set. However, sometimes, just because something looks easier doesn’t always mean that it is. Take this example of iKON not doing to well in the single/nano dance segment of Idol Room. GFRIEND was used as an example of how well it could be done and iKONs choreo here, at least at the beginning where they were doing badly arguably wasn’t harder than GFRIEND’s. So a group like iKON who is held in high regard for their choreo and what they could do was outshone by GFRIEND.

Just like I think the average female group choreo is the same thing reused over and over, in some ways I think male groups are similar. There are however few exceptions like NCT and SEVENTEEN though. However, most use and reuse the same moves other groups do.

The shipping and fan service is really odd to me as well. I just don’t understand it either. smh.
Also the merchandise, the way money is made – music appears to be secondary quite often frankly.