one thing i abhor is when people call what i say tangential (unless i mention my digression) just because they have no concept of history and BASIC theoretical background. just admit u dont know
if i make a point and i digress, i’ll say i digress. or i’ll bring something new up. somehow, miraculously, all things tie to my point. it’s not me going “oh statement a and also statement b but what i mean is c” but it is a surefire way to really piss me off and invalidate me. i get that i have trouble communicating, but i am not that fucking bad. i’m so sick of hearing this. i put a lot of time and thought into expanding my knowledge and discrediting me will just piss me off. if you don’t understand what i am saying because you have no basis for it, ASK. JUST. ASK.
sure but this isn’t really what i’m referring to… i’m always open to saying i don’t know something or if i need further explanation. i really mean that people start a discussion/argument then proceed to tear down my counter-argument or gained knowledge by telling me they don’t understand me when really it’s because they do not want to admit fault or flaw in their beliefs.
didn’t want to keep this in the same comment to you in case it was too long/you dont care. i am just writing out my thoughts…
for example, i object to outlandish conspiracy theories–not skepticism–because i believe that they are a way to find a mythical evil when we have history and theory to turn to. such conspiracy theories as ‘9/11 was staged’ or that there’s an ‘israeli lobby’ lack nuance and do not explain the phenomenon of suffering or what leads to it. instead it explains them away. why is it in the US interest to support apartheid when we know it to be harmful? the answer isn’t that there are evil israelis (and people mean jewish when they say this, a big anti semitic red flag) just going around forcing people as much as there’s severe interest in the west to gain control of the middle east. i do not believe that trump drinks baby blood to foster hate, i believe that there’s years and years of human history to show just how we got here.
my father, however, likes to tell people that he knows “secret groups” are real–he’s a very smart dude but i think his personal trauma makes him more susceptible to this idea–or other things of that nature.
and people take that as truth and it becomes a problem. i literally had this discussion last week and a family friend said, “i didn’t know just how deep this ran” and it hurts me to see people i love and know accept this without interrogation. these are “learned” people. so, i do not agree, i think it ahistorical, and i think it’s an argument that takes a while to unlearn due to the popularity of these theories now and how attached one can get to them. you can gain access to misinformation so easily!
so i set up my counter-argument, or challenge this deeply because it’s awful but my father’s response is “you don’t know what you’re talking about” “what’s your point?” “this doesn’t make sense” and then my mother jumps in to support him because she loves him.
that makes it almost impossible to finish my thoughts and i’m now on the defensive, embarrassed, and fearful that my points don’t make sense. essentially, the doubts they have are turned around on me and where i have knowledge and evidence it’s invalid because they can say they claim to not understand what i’m saying!
i believe my explanation is sufficient, both in this example and explaining why i feel the way i do, but there’s only two answers now:
– the person decides to actually listen and think about what i have brought up
or
– i do not make sense simply because my view and understanding is very different
i wouldn’t call it gaslighting it’s just a way to shut someone down. we can all be tangential but i realize the difference between my intense rambling and what i do know in a structured discussion. and if i doubt myself i try my best to calm down, regroup, and start the explanation again. a lot of this is insecurity on my part though and i hate feeling like i’m not heard. but it’s so invalidating.
I am your dad…and you are my mom.. but my mom ends up giving up on me with her standard line “that is why you should read” and walks away 😛 ( i am not trying to make a joke really.. but i understand when you gets that dismissal again and again and from your close ones.. strangers are easier to deal with)
tbh i have the same issue my dad does sometimes i’ll just go “I’M RIGHT” and “u dnt know what ur saying” and i learned it from im lmao
thre’s all stuff we can work on for better communication (IF we are being sincere!!! hahah) and it’s ok, it is sort of funny. in the grand scheme of things could be worse u no
amara
November 2, 2019 at 9:56 AM
one thing i abhor is when people call what i say tangential (unless i mention my digression) just because they have no concept of history and BASIC theoretical background. just admit u dont know
amara
November 2, 2019 at 9:58 AM
if i make a point and i digress, i’ll say i digress. or i’ll bring something new up. somehow, miraculously, all things tie to my point. it’s not me going “oh statement a and also statement b but what i mean is c” but it is a surefire way to really piss me off and invalidate me. i get that i have trouble communicating, but i am not that fucking bad. i’m so sick of hearing this. i put a lot of time and thought into expanding my knowledge and discrediting me will just piss me off. if you don’t understand what i am saying because you have no basis for it, ASK. JUST. ASK.
amara
November 2, 2019 at 9:59 AM
people love to waste ur time and then blame u but it’s just to make u look crazy tbh and i hate that lol im self conches
alasecond
November 2, 2019 at 10:07 AM
But you could also ask them right, instead of assuming they are wrong because they are unaware
ask them, are they even aware of this trivia.. if no then your stand is correct..
and communication could be wrong from either side
amara
November 2, 2019 at 5:42 PM
sure but this isn’t really what i’m referring to… i’m always open to saying i don’t know something or if i need further explanation. i really mean that people start a discussion/argument then proceed to tear down my counter-argument or gained knowledge by telling me they don’t understand me when really it’s because they do not want to admit fault or flaw in their beliefs.
amara
November 2, 2019 at 5:52 PM
didn’t want to keep this in the same comment to you in case it was too long/you dont care. i am just writing out my thoughts…
for example, i object to outlandish conspiracy theories–not skepticism–because i believe that they are a way to find a mythical evil when we have history and theory to turn to. such conspiracy theories as ‘9/11 was staged’ or that there’s an ‘israeli lobby’ lack nuance and do not explain the phenomenon of suffering or what leads to it. instead it explains them away. why is it in the US interest to support apartheid when we know it to be harmful? the answer isn’t that there are evil israelis (and people mean jewish when they say this, a big anti semitic red flag) just going around forcing people as much as there’s severe interest in the west to gain control of the middle east. i do not believe that trump drinks baby blood to foster hate, i believe that there’s years and years of human history to show just how we got here.
my father, however, likes to tell people that he knows “secret groups” are real–he’s a very smart dude but i think his personal trauma makes him more susceptible to this idea–or other things of that nature.
and people take that as truth and it becomes a problem. i literally had this discussion last week and a family friend said, “i didn’t know just how deep this ran” and it hurts me to see people i love and know accept this without interrogation. these are “learned” people. so, i do not agree, i think it ahistorical, and i think it’s an argument that takes a while to unlearn due to the popularity of these theories now and how attached one can get to them. you can gain access to misinformation so easily!
so i set up my counter-argument, or challenge this deeply because it’s awful but my father’s response is “you don’t know what you’re talking about” “what’s your point?” “this doesn’t make sense” and then my mother jumps in to support him because she loves him.
that makes it almost impossible to finish my thoughts and i’m now on the defensive, embarrassed, and fearful that my points don’t make sense. essentially, the doubts they have are turned around on me and where i have knowledge and evidence it’s invalid because they can say they claim to not understand what i’m saying!
i believe my explanation is sufficient, both in this example and explaining why i feel the way i do, but there’s only two answers now:
– the person decides to actually listen and think about what i have brought up
or
– i do not make sense simply because my view and understanding is very different
i wouldn’t call it gaslighting it’s just a way to shut someone down. we can all be tangential but i realize the difference between my intense rambling and what i do know in a structured discussion. and if i doubt myself i try my best to calm down, regroup, and start the explanation again. a lot of this is insecurity on my part though and i hate feeling like i’m not heard. but it’s so invalidating.
alasecond
November 2, 2019 at 8:56 PM
oh! thanks for explaining.. i get it now..
True…seen this a lot.. no one questions anyone
I am your dad…and you are my mom.. but my mom ends up giving up on me with her standard line “that is why you should read” and walks away 😛 ( i am not trying to make a joke really.. but i understand when you gets that dismissal again and again and from your close ones.. strangers are easier to deal with)
amara
November 3, 2019 at 9:22 AM
tbh i have the same issue my dad does sometimes i’ll just go “I’M RIGHT” and “u dnt know what ur saying” and i learned it from im lmao
thre’s all stuff we can work on for better communication (IF we are being sincere!!! hahah) and it’s ok, it is sort of funny. in the grand scheme of things could be worse u no
alasecond
November 2, 2019 at 8:48 PM
oh ok.. i see..
you need a copy of “How to tame the obstinate fools” 🙂
amara
November 3, 2019 at 9:20 AM
lmaooooo