Beanie level: Entertainer-in-training

I swear the spying by google is scary. As if it knows I’ve been meaning to check out B.A.P songs.
@hobakky also tagging @sicarius – this is Amazing. I can’t stop listening to this one. Crap. I really missed out on this group when they were promoting.

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I haven’t posted about them yet, but I’m following and really rooting for 1THE9. This is a song off their album I really like. It’s an okay song, doesn’t being anything new to the table. I just really like it.

This is a short-lived, one year only group, and I suppose MBC will give them okay songs to try and extract some money, but the show Under 19 wasn’t that popular, so expectations are unlikely to be high. Just posting the song here:

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    Additionally @hades, this is a bit random ties in to representation in Kpop (hence the tag): Under Nineteen had an openly gay contestant, Eddie. There were five elimination rounds, and he made it past the first. By Kpop’s very low standards, this is a small step.

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      And you telling me this now G! 🙃 LOL. When I read your comment, my eyes opened wide!

      So I just looked him up on kprofile and if the info on there is anything to go by, I think I know why he didn’t make it very far.

      Has been receiving a lot of bashing for not being Asian, for being gay, and for not being good at Korean.

      So it’s not just because he’s gay. Sigh. This could lead to so many why couldn’t they haves…BUT, it still is a small step. Very rocky small step that might not have left a good taste in people’s mouths, but a small step nonetheless.

      Thanks for telling me about this! ❤️

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        Hahahah Ikr? The first thing I should have mentioned to you. Eddie is a phenomenal dancer. He opened his appearance on the show with Sunmi’s Gashina, and blew the judges away haha. They ranked him #1 from the performance team.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc2QthLKH1Q&t=42s

        Seems he got along well with the other contestants too (as shown on camera). It seems like his being gay wasn’t a deal at all for the people on the show.

        But as you watch the show its actually clear he can’t be in the group. He has zero Korean, and desperately needs vocal or rap lessons. The bashing does suck though.

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          (*wasn’t a deal meaning they didn’t care. The other contestants helped him immensely with his Korean lyrics, and benefited from his dancing experience)

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          I would have to admit though, what Korea presents as K-Pop is clear. Asian boys/girls/men/women performing. When a non-Asian person appears, for me, it’s jarring because it does not line up with what I know K-Pop to be and I think that’s sad. In many ways, it ties back into the Doll Test. We’ve been conditioned so much by what is marketed to as as K-Pop that anything that does not look like it is not. #beingakpopfanishard

          Have you seen the Netflix and Vox special, K-Pop Explained? I really need to do a post on that.

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My mind is racing with thoughts and I can’t sleep. So much to do tomorrow. Not sleeping is my way of putting off the Monday.

Thank you Epik High & Yoongi, for the perfect song, lyrically and musically for this moment. I’m actually comforted a bit.

***Listens to too much music. And Korean music has taken over.

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*notes for self*
Current Drama Status #54
Her Private Life. Ep 4.

To watch:
Nokdu Flower (Jo Jong Suk, Han Ye Ri, Yoon Shi Yoon, this cast! 😱 – airing Apr 26)
Abyss (Park Bo Young drama – airing May 6)
——–
Now that the comeback is a little over a week behind me, I’m recovering from it and restarting dramas. Just in time. Looks like a couple of interesting dramas are coming up. 😀

For those watching Confession, would you still recommend it? @growingbeautifully and perhaps others.

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    Hi @greenfields What I can say for myself is that I like Confession. I may roll my eyes at the coincidences but most kdramas have those. They make events and discoveries happen faster, so that we don’t have to stretch the show. The other thing some of us are rolling our eyes at is the organ transplant thing and how that provides the ‘memories’ of the donor to the recipient. However, I can roll with this because the investigation and logic (except for some coincidences) is pretty solid, and it’s not the first time (nor will it be the last) that memories through organ transplant is offered as perfectly normal.

    It has the elements that I enjoy: likable protagonists, rounded characters with layers, growing teamwork, revelations that make sense (except for the organ memory thing) and the unfolding of clues and info just enough to give us a chance to guess and then at the right time, to show us whether we are right or wrong. In other words, it’s fun to watch and play at speculation, with the good company on DB of course.

    Just past the half way mark, I think most of us are pretty clear on who and why … the only question now is how to evade trouble and bring down the baddies, and there are some resolutions I know I’d really like to see. Also, Jun Ho has this knack of engaging great empathy for his character and I really want to see him beat the baddies in court and have a happy ending with his friends.

    So if you have a similar interest in what kdrama is showing ‘can be’ done in court and in the stuff that I like, you may also enjoy this show. I was asking you if you’d watch before, because of the double jeorpardy thing in law and other legal questions that might arise. I do admit though that for the last several episodes, scenes are nowhere near the courtroom. Since I like both investigation and the imaginative arguments in court, I’m ok with that. Just thought I’d mention it, in case I gave you the ‘wrong’ idea! 😀

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      That was a much longer and more detailed answer than I was expecting. 😊 It sounds like an interesting show and you raised my curiousty. Obv the initial reason you suggested I watch it is not a thing now since the discussion would have moved on, but I may still want to watch it. Was just cjecking to see if it held up in your eyes. ^^

      The organ transplant thing sounds even better – so it has a slight supernatural twist? Now I’m reminded of I Can Hear Your Voice and I’m in.

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        Also thank you. You answered my questions entirely. I’ll watch the drama.

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        I feel IHYV really made use of that supernatural ability. Confession does not depend on the supernatural all that much. It’s more just incidental and coincidental. I’d say if show had gone the whole hog and just made it a ‘big’ thing and used it to push the plot along, it might actually have been more fascinating. On the whole, no one knows that the organ is ‘playing’ with DH’s memory and he also has no clue why he gets flashes of stuff or dreams. This, again … not to mislead you!! 😉

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I have no idea why this song hasn’t come my way before. I’m not sure if f(x) are calling out “pretty girls” and exhorting girls to be more than just pretty or if they’re saying no such “pretty girl” exists, but either way I’m here for it.

Love the lyrics, love the rock music style riffs, love the vocals in the chorus.

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So it seems I watch so much K-drama and listen to so much K-pop, Google now thinks it can sell me washing machines or mens’ suits in Korean. *facepalm. How do I tell Google that Cha Eun Woo’s handsome face, holding his hand out all romantically like that isn’t going to get me to buy washing machines or suits I don’t need?

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    But if Google wants to sell me a certain Cha Eun Woo in a suit beside a washing machine holding out his hand all romantically like that, then we can perhaps talk? *runs away and hides*

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My male colleagues nearly always tell me I’m business like and rather intimidating.

Meanwhile me: *foolishly in love, smiles widely as she listens yet again, on loop, to the 4/7 songs on the new BTS album that she’s grown to REALLY like (perhaps even love) – during work on a boring, slow Friday afternoon*

What’s with this contrast? XD

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    That’s not a contrast, that’s a great combination!

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    My former supervisor told me the other day that I’m terrifying. I think it was a compliment though.

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      Definitely a compliment. I love being told I’m intimidating.

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        I was once told by a former boss that I was really annoying because I was always right. (not that I *thought* I was always right, but that I was actually always proven right). I’ve since come to like being told I’m annoying too.

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          Hahaha definitely a compliment! Now that’s the kind of annoying that must be particularly satisfying to be. XD

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      Definitely compliment

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      I want to be terrifying. Damn, “intimidating” sounds so mellow now.

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    I have been told that too. Intimidating and unapproachable that people from other teams come to me via my boss. I am
    Happy for those vibes I seem to be sending. Because I am left in peace for my beanie discussions :))

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      *fingerhearts* I agree. I’ve hijacked a small desk in a corner and my laptop’s screen is hidden from view. Occasional dramabeans breaks and a lot of music from youtube in my earphones as I work is my way of venting stress.

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    This album has basically been on loop since last Friday. Yesterday was the first day I included music not from the album ^^

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    I knew this would happen. 😂

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      Well you know. It sounds nice and all, but I still think it’s lacking that quintessentially BTS thing – some sort of raw, undefined and even unsophisticated, bare display of emotion and intellect that make BTS, BTS. It’s there in every BTS release right upto this album. Namjoon’s solo album, Jimin & V’s self composed SoundCloud tracks and Suga’s collaboration with Sora and Tablo, but absent in this album.

      These familiar voices and these boys performing the songs – ofc I love them. But there’s the but.

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Ryan Gold and Eun Gi show that dating real life guys is 10000000x better than dreaming of idols. >_< did you get that, G?
#HerPrivateLife
#Ep3

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    It is KJW though….

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      Yes this is true. The standard of real life guys is unreal in this drama. =.= But Ryan Gold is mostly a complete jerk so well, yeah, Kim Jae wook

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      I might also add that it being KJW does not really affect me. I’m invested in this show for fangirl Doek Mi. The problem, as I said to earthna below, lies in the fact that I only have eyes for my own kpop bias

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    i got that memo,G 😉

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      Whoa does this mean you’re dating someone? 😁 Congratulations!

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        yes,for a year and few months now 🤭

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          and I just pressed that “SEND” whilst typing thanks @greenfields 😁

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          OOOOOOOOOOOOOh over a year is a rather big deal. 😀 😀 I’m curious about this guy that stole you away from Gikwang. What’s he like? 😀

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            BFF since college, supports all my hobbies and interests – from kdrama,football,basketball, reading,even kpop. been my go-to-person, knowing he’ll always have my back,even if we dont talk every single day. not that perfect,but I can live with his imperfection without going crazy and trying to fix him.

            and he knows, GK first had my heart 🤭 before him 😉 and doesn’t mind 😁 he even bought my concert ticket for GK’s solo last Jan 2018.

            i’m not discouraging you or what not, unbelievable and all, but there is a real life guy that will never measure up against our bias but at the end of the day,we will still choose that real life person to be with

            *hides away from embarrassment over this rather cringe-y reply*

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            What this is SO CUTE. I’m 😍😍😍 just reading this. Now I’m even more curious. Is it ok to ask questions like how did you go from friends to lovers? What’s the kdrama behind this? Shall I ask on twt in private!?

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    *looks up while whistling*
    Also, G, all guys will act like jerks at some point, some more than others (even idols). Just find one where you can live with the jerkiness, because his good qualities are awesome. And find one that loves you for you. ❤️ (Old married lady, out.)

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    It felt like you’re saying that to me and it hurts! Lol jk. People call me G a lot.

    If I get a Ryan Gold, I might consider the real life guy dating business.

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      😂😂 *high 5 from one G to another*

      So I’m actually not finding Ryan Gold as attractive as many are. The problem I suppose, is that I only have eyes for my kppp bias. ,>_<

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I\’m failing to find the philosophical Jungian in MOTS Persona. Maybe instead of talking about their (outer) persona, BTS is showing us their persona through this album, and the next one will be a dark one – showing us whats truly behind the persona? 😮

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Which brings me back to my favorite moment of LoveYourselfinSG. I may prefer smaller concerts but 45000 people singing along to a song in a language they don’t speak is simply magical.

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    I loved this, and also the singalong to Epiphany!

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      That was great as well! I appreciate the reminder – I didn’t record that so I’d forgotten about it, but I check my recording of Truth Untold every once in a while. ^^;

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To give you an idea of the group I saw live today, here’s a Japanese ver. of “Starlight” – their song that has shot right up on my own, personal charts. It was 10x more beautiful live. Also, the mics were malfunctioning a bit – and it was clear throughout the 2 hrs that these guys were live.
IN2IT fighting!

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*ahem* I was at an IN2IT concert today and it was A.M.A.Z.I.N.G. I put up the low ticket prices on an earlier post, and honestly, I didn’t know what to expect.
http://www.dramabeans.com/members/greenfields/activity/752884/

But – my expectations should have been sky high because the boys of IN2IT were fantastic. Professionals through and through, their energy and their interactions with fans were extraordinary. They had fans stand and learn some choreo, and in return learnt some Hindi. They walked amongst the crowd and asked individual fans questions, they walked amongst the crowd and sang – I even shook hands with two of them! 🤣 Issac, and I think, Jiahn.

I think it being a smaller venue (~800) really helped make the concert feel more intimate. In contrast, I loved BTS’s concert, love BTS themselves and love their music way more than IN2IT’s, but the 45,000 people venue made the concert impersonal. The boys came, did their set, showed their gratitude and left. Objectively, BTS may have been better/are more experienced, but as a subjective experience of a concert – I honestly enjoyed this more intimate concert much more.

I hope IN2IT who are still rookies, but are a struggling group, see more success in their careers.

BTW, someone posted this video of member Inho amongst fans, and you can actually see me there! 🤣🤣 I’m so embarrassed at my own super happy expression.

Also you might see the occasional IN2IT post from me.

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    Ooooh I see you!
    Aww this sounds fun! I wish I could attend!

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    This looks amazing! I’m so glad you had a good time!

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    Wow so close and high-fives!

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    Awesome! That’s so cool you got to shake hands with them.

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    Small concerts are always the best. My favourite concert so far was a 400 all standing Swedish Power Metal concert in a back alley night club in Plymouth, England lol.

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      Definitely, right? Hahaha my very favorite until now was a 1000 people sufi music concert by one of the biggest names in that genre literally for free at an art festival. Or I dunno there may have been 2000 people coming and going. It was amazing.

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      wow that sounds awesome! was there moshing? 😀

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    I see you G. I C U! lol

    Glad you had fun! How were the vocals and the choreo? How long did the concert last? Did they do any signings?

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      😁😁😁
      The vocals were live. There were issues with the mics at one point and the vocals disappeared off the speakers, you could hear them breathing onto the mics, they threw in a lot of adlibs – and SO GOOD. These boys have strong voices. Inho in particular really stood out for his strong notes.

      The choreography? Fantastic. IN2IT was born out of the most brutal survival show, Boy24. They had the boys eliminate each other, and I read somewhere, had the contestants perform EVERYDAY for a year. It was so taxing mentally, emotionally and physically that we of the finalists were asking fans not to vote for them, so they could end their misery + they didn’t want to debut under MNET if it was going to be like this.

      Honestly these boys are really good, I’m upset they’re struggling like this.

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        You know I’m a sucker for live vocals. Hmm…I’ll check them out.

        P.S. When will the torture end?

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          They’re a permanent group….which is not saying much since they debuted in 2017 and the oldest is already a 92 liner. Military next year, 3 years after debut.

          One of the members (the youngest) is on PX101 – back to the MNET variety battle.

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        Sunghyun is participating in the most brutal survival show franchise Produce X 101.

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          P X 101 – yeah it may indeed be even more brutal.

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            Was Sunghyun even at the concert when he is in the middle of filming Produce X 101? Or was IN2IT missing one member and covered Sunghyun’s lines?

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            No he wasn’t there – they’re here with 6 members and they’re covering his lines. In some of the choreo, you can see the missing spot, but in most of it, they’ve made minute adjustments already, and you don’t realise there’s one more person in the choreo.

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            Unfortunately, IN2IT had to adjust choreography once before when Jinsub left the group.

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    Are you watching Her Private Life? IN2IT plays members of White Ocean, and they, with One, performed SnapShot on the show.

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      I am! I didn’t realize the members themselves were on there! 😍 Gotta go check it out.

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        OHHHHH!!! THAT IS SO STUPID!!! I was wondering if that group was actually a group. Why could they just not be IN2IT!? Licensing/trademark/contract issues. So stupid.

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          Because Jung Jaewon is not in IN2IT and only four members of IN2IT act in Her Private Life. Plus White Ocean is supposed to be a top idol group.

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            Confusing

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            off topic but IN2IT is definitely struggling right? Do you, oh knowledgeable one (^^), have any theories as to why they aren’t see all that much success?

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            @hades What I meant is it would not be believable for the fictional group in the show to be named “IN2IT” because IN2IT is not as popular as White Ocean is supposed to be. Besides, since Cha Shi-an (played by Jung Jaewon) is the main member of White Ocean, it would make more sense for the group to be named 1Punch.

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            @greenfields IN2IT is definitely struggling because Boys24 flopped. The most well-known Boys24 contestants are the boys who participated in Produce 101 Season 2. (I will never not be bitter at The Vibe Label blocking Kim Taedong from joining JBJ.)

            The reason why IN2IT isn’t seeing all that much success is the same reason why most groups aren’t seeing all that much success: the idol industry is oversaturated. There are just not enough fans to go around.

            Your comments

            I hope IN2IT… see more success in their careers.
            I’m upset they’re struggling like this.

            is exactly how I feel about my favorite nugu groups especially MYTEEN who are also participating in Produce X 101. Love them, Korea, love them!!

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In2it concert today! 😁

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This movie, “The Dude in Me” randomly popped up in my youtube recs. 🤣
Korean movies really are world’s apart from dramas.

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    I am literally watching this on Viki right now. It’s pretty funny so far. Ra Mi Ran is her usual wonderful self.

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      *hi5* for the common timing. It’s good till the end. 🙂 And Ra Mi Ran is great as always. I though everyone did their switched roles well. 😂

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    I literally just watched that the other day 😂

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    Oh my! Mine too. I literally just finished watching this 5 minutes ago!

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      Ooh thoughts? ^^

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        I liked it. Had seen it being promoted on Knowing Brothers and forgot about it till it popped up in YT rec.
        Plot wise a little light weight and very pat. (I’ve never known a Mob Boss (cos that’s what Dad-in-law dearest was) to let go so easily!)
        With Park Sung Woong and Ra Mi Ran – you know they will deliver. Their eyes convey just so much! The lift of an eyebrow even! (I’m a fan of both!!) Park Sung Woong as a teen was hilarious!!!
        Jinyoung impressed me in his growth as an actor – In Moonlight – his role was a walk in the park and he ‘coasted’ cos his role called for a calm and cool demeanour (I’m guessing – from the way JY interpreted the role) and JY himself has this innate cool and calm demeanour vibe (the only hiccup, I personally thought, was his death scene) I can see that he has grown in his delivery and facial expressions. But I think there’s still room to grow. Like the gas tank scene. Ra Mi Ran was awesome in delivering her fear and resolve and her determination in a do or die situation. The tension was high when watching her, but the tension emanating from JY was not as intense – if you know what I mean. I think as he hangs with all his sunbaenims and learns from them, he will continue to improve.
        But that is just my personal opinion. Not bashing but encouraging.

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          Hahaha the disclaimer at the end is not needed madkdr 😊 I do agree that Jinyoung needed a bit more tension/gravitas as an older person (the first “fat” Jinyoung pulled that off seamlessly) but overall he was pretty decent. In fact what I mostly enjoyed was the performance of the body switched actors. And ofc Ra Mi Ran is simply breathtaking in her roles.

          Plot wise yeah – there wasn’t much it was pretty simple. The acting and comedy were the focus here. ^^

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            Yup he did pull of “fat” role well. PSW acting as the teen was great especially where he tried to hide his tall self behind his dad Kim Kwang Kyu who was small!!!

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    I saw it on my recs as well. Is it because we watch too much kpop?
    And do you recommend watching it?

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    It showed up in my recs too! 0__0

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    I searched up the synopsis on Asianwiki and noticed there’s literally a genre called “Switched Bodies” 😂

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      🤣 🤣 🤣 when did this happen? Is it a sub genre of supernatural/fantasy? Who likes it enough for it to be a genre?

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Someone help me think about something, anything, other than BTS please!

🎵 \”Love is nothing stronger….
oa oa oa oaaaaaaaa
than a boy with
than a boy with luv\”

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    Try that Tiramisu Cake song from To.Jenny? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pb0tXvhBhs

    (Boy with Luv keeps creeping into my head and I am not pleased. Also I am reviewing the MV and hence looking at the lyrics and the grammar is like wae)

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      😂😂 I look forward to your review. It’s surpringly addictive.

      Tbh this is one of the three songs I like on this album. I’m dissatisfied with the lack of references to the concept, and I wish the album had more time in production, but this is one song I’m personally satisfied with.

      And also you made me want to rewatch to.Jenny. which was an awesome show. 💕

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        But it did take me three listens to conclude that yes, I like this song.

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        I still don’t like the song, but I have to say they know how to make an earworm. One other song that has grown on me is Mikrokosmos! Also, the review is coming out in two hours and it’s reaaaally long because apparently, I have many Thoughts and Feelings.

        To.Jenny! It was so funny even though it was a familiar storyline. I loved that the main character’s little sister had more dating game than him hahaha.

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          OH I look forward to reading it. Hahah especially yeah because thoughts and feelings.

          Btw – I’m no music person, and I know you know more than I suspect you do but there’s an interesting discussion on Hobakky post about how BTS produce their music and I thought I’d link you to it:
          http://www.dramabeans.com/members/hobakky/activity/757143/#acomment-757390

          (my feathers were ruffled initially but once hobakky explained, I had to say it sounded interesting. I’m still an ARMY though, and my fan-ship shows. >_< )

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            Ah, that’s a very interesting and legitimate criticism. Hobakky is right that BTS (and a lot of K-pop producers, idol or otherwise) go through these music libraries for samples they can use. I read an interview on Music Mind (the website is no longer available), which clarified a plagiarism controversy regarding Exo and BTS’ B-sides. They interviewed a producer who worked with Exo for the song in question.

            MM: This song created a bit of fanwar between EXO fans and BTS fans. Can you shed any light on that?
            MZMC: I’d love to! So, producers often use what are called sound libraries. These libraries include different drum sounds, drum loops, synth loops, guitar loops, piano loops, etc. They’re shared across the web for producers to use, for free, without having to credit or ask for permission from the original maker of that sound or loop. They’re royalty free. So, if a drum sound or a loop is hot, they’ll often get used by multiple producers. The electric piano loop that I used was from one of those sound libraries. Since I don’t listen to every single Kpop song that gets released, I was unaware that BTS’ song, 고엽 (Dead Leaves), had the same loop. A lot of fans think that both the producer of Dead Leaves and I sampled Blackbear’s Deadroses. That’s not the case. It just turned out that all three of us used the same loop from the same sound library.

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            Thanks for this! Certainly explains a lot.

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          To.Jenny was fantastic. I think the music elevated what would have otherwise been a simple drama special into a memorable, overflowing with feelings-kinda show. 😀

          The actor playing the male lead was so adorable! Haha But then I watched him play a deranged rich kid enact a rape scene (where he’s doing the raping ofc) and the cute image went out the window. 🙁

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          Reply, part 3, since I read the review.

          My problem with the entire latest album exactly: “The irony of this is that it reneges on the very source of this support: the artistic effort that has won the hearts of legions of fans and brought the group to where they are today.”

          *sorry I’m commenting separately. I haven’t used disqus in years and no clue what the password is

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            Thank you for reading! I detailed my personal background as a fan/writer because my disappointment in this MV goes way beyond just this one MV. It’s the fear that I wrote about in my conclusion, which you’ve quoted–that BTS’ popularity is ruining them and Big Hit’s previously careful management strategies.

            And no worries, I’m happy to discuss things anywhere, as long as it’s a constructive discussion. I’m pleasantly surprised at how the conversations surrounding BTS on DB have been filled with constructive criticism.

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            Tbh I’m not sure how such massive success could leave any group unaffected. 🙁 Like you said, the feedback loop is broken and the pressure is on. The only way I’ll accept this work as a work of BTS’s calibre is if this album shows their “persona” (outer face) and the next album turns around and shows what’s the reality/personal face.

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    You know, I’m not a BTS fan but I absolutely like Boy With Luv! I’ve been listening to it on repeat.

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    Sorry you’re stuck.

    1
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      Wae? 😅 This is one of the three songs I love on this album. My issues have to do with the songs needing more time in production. But this is one of the three I’m TOTALLY happy with.

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        I think you misunderstood. You are stuck listening to BTS – because they are just so amazing!!! There is no way to get them out of your head!

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          Hahaha I was a bit worried that my extensive discussion of the album gave the impression that I’m unhappy. Which is not the case at all. 😓😓

          But yes, it’s stuck. Because it’s BTS. 💕

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Can we talk about how amazing this performance is? 😍 Those gorgeous love vocals, that relaxed choreography. I won’t ever LOVE this album but I sure as heck love this song & performance.

Persona and Make it Right are other songs I love. 😍😍

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    LIVE VOCALS
    =.= My phone and it’s typos.

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    You sound like you’re in denial. Slightly. I think you should just accept the fact that it’s different but you still like it nonetheless and you might very well return to some of the songs one day. 😉

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So I just want to add that, as I knew would happen, the album is growing on me. There are songs I’ll never return to; but as a simple pop song, this one is very pleasant to listen to. >_<

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    Hehe

    Unless I’m really firm about it, I do return to songs with not so good initial first impressions.

    It happened with me during LY & I’m damn sure it’s gonna happen now so I’m just patiently listening to the album now, in chill mode & all 😂

    But I’m glad it’s growing on you 😁
    I was hoping for it to happen hihi

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      😂😂😂😂 I’m going to adopt your zen attitude and stop talking about this album for a week. We’ll see where I stand then.

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        LOL definitely let us know where you stand next week. I tried listening at work but there were too many distractions so I’m going to set some time tonight for a proper listen. Hmmm maybe I’ll do this on rabbit.

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    The horn in this is what caught me at first. Now it’s become sort a background noise and I can’t get the tune out of my head.
    Gives a little more classiness to the song my in opinion. Enjoying most of the album – but this is my favorite one now.

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    This is my favorite track

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    I am not a fan of Ed Sheeran, but I really like the horns and the seeming simplicity of this song. I think this might be my second fave song on the album.

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    NGL i didnt take to most of BTS title tracks post BST. (the first time I learned about them) I usually find something else in the album I prefer. 🤷🏻‍♀️

    TBH BWL felt too …sparkly?. But I love the throwback to old theaters, diners era…. & since this is BTS, I like the way they used “Singing in The Rain” scenes (Im a sucker for old movies) so Ill give them that. ^_~

    My fav rn is also this one. Or maybe its bec its the weekend. 😂

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      My all time favorite is probably Love Maze . I also love Sea, Dimple, and Paradise

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      😂😂 normally it’s the b-sides that are better – that’s where the true magic of BTS lies – but I do love Idol wholeheartedly.

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In short, I love BTS and I love everything they do. Including the things I don’t like. Does that make sense? Because that’s what it is.

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My favorite lyrics, are, unsurprisingly, Yoongi’s, from “Home”:

“The world thinks we own the whole world,
Big house, big car, big rings,
I own everything I want,
It feels empty.
Unfamiliar feeling,
That person with everything.”

… from here he ties it into the theme of the song i.e. that fans/ARMY are BTS’s home.

It’s a beautiful throwback to their debut, “No More Dream” which criticizes the pressure and expectations on kids in school. Here he raps,
“I wanna big house, big cars and big rings,
But in reality, I don’t have any big dreams.

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    Ooooooh. I haven’t read any lyrics but that paragraph alone is pretty powerful. I would probably like it less if I read the bit about the fans so I won’t and I’ll just take this as it stands alone, which in itself I think has a really sad but important meaning.

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BTS, Map of the Soul: Persona

My honest thoughts guys, are not very hype positive. So feel free to skip this first listen review.

It’s Very Pop this time, and lyrically – my most deeply cherished thing about BTS is lyrics – not the strongest. I love Yoongi’s rap and his lyrics, I like a few of the songs – Persona, the intro being AWESOME, and Jamais Vu, being nice, and maybe a couple more, and that’s it.

Even more brutal thoughts – BTS released 3 albums in the space of 11 months. As well as numerous covers, soundcloud tracks, collabs, etc. This is a LOT of music. I LOVE most of it, but I do still think this is a LOT of music, and that’s reflected most strongly in this latest album. Quantity over quality?

BUT this is just my first listen. I often find myself returning to songs a couple of days after, because the melody or a lyric suddenly hits me.

For now, here’s Jamais Vu, opening with Jin’s beautiful voice.

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    You’re not alone in your thoughts! I think they had very little time to produce this album, and the scattered sound shows.

    I’m not a fan of the future bass influences/ generally very Westernised sound that has been entering their music since Love Yourself: Her. But at least there, I could feel some coherence flowing between the tracks.

    A positive thing with Persona, though: I appreciate the return of their hip-hop sound, though I miss the rock elements present in their pre-Wings music.

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      I’m glad I’m not alone in thinking. I really think they need to take more time to produce better songs. Some of these songs should not really be on a BTS album in my very honest opinion. Tear had these weaknesses as well. Or perhaps as you say, keep the future bass influences/generally very Westernized sound out. I think acoustic versions of Home, Make It Right, Microcosmos would be quite nice.

      LY: Her works better for me because it is coherent not only in sound but also in lyrics and in the narrative it wants to tell. This one seems less so – though I do need to spend more time with the lyrics.

      On hip-hop, yes! The last track Dionysus felt very BTS. 😀 Musically but not lyrically. T_T

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        Now that you mention it, I think what Persona is missing is strong melodies and vocal verses. Some of the vocals are really over-processed, which is a pity.

        The last track Dionysus felt very BTS. 😀 Musically but not lyrically. T_T

        I knowww. It’s like some tracks are very BTS lyrically, but musically meh (e.g. the title track). And then some are BTS musically, but not lyrically.

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          Oh I think you’ve stated it better than I did – that may be. The absence of strong melodies and vocal verses. There’s plenty of vocals but not very memorable? I find Jamais Vu to be the exception. But also – this may come down to individual taste?

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            On the vocals, I think BTS tends to do this sometimes – the voices are layered? Like the same vocal is mixed twice or more times to make it stronger? I dunno how to say this – and I might be TOTALLY wrong.

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          Comment was deleted

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          Actually, as I have always thought, it needs stronger rap verses. BTS has a phenomenal rap line: they need to use it more.

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        It’s kinda of… Interesting to see how their narrative has got less and less coherent from HYYH onwards. Even when LY came out there were articles comparing the narrative to Wings and HYYH and how it wasn’t as strong, and now even you are picking up on this in MOTS. Hmmm.

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          Hmmm yeah that makes sense. In the overall scheme of things, ie the LY series, the narrative in Her makes sense. But Her has actually good songs and it has Sea.

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          Wings was a prime example of how they could experiment with different sounds and new thematic ideas but still make it coherent. I wrote a mega analysis of the LY series for Seoulbeats and it became really, painfully obvious that the planning was rushed and they were trying to do too much.

          As MoTS is falling into the same pattern, it’s making me become more afraid and certain that the fact that they’re trying to capitalise on their success in the US is putting pressure on their artistic process (not just BTS themselves, but also Big Hit).

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            I read your b-sides article and an article on LY not being coherent (was that you as well?). Both were amazing to read and really brought together many of my own scattered thoughts. Thanks purple teapot! 😊

            And the lack of coherence is at its peak here. Frankly there’s nothing Jungian or philosophical about it. Except for the intro, Persona which was very promising.

            With that, yes. With its many Western pop producers – this album is western pop for the western market.

            May I also add that I’m feeling the same about BTS’s promotions. They haven’t done any Korean variety – a staple for idols – since knowing bros when LY:Her came out in Sept 2017. I know variety is hard but it feels like a snub. Like they’re bigger &, better now. And they’ve got bigger fish to fry.

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            @greenfields Yes, the LY piece was by me too! I wanted to dive into why I felt so let down by the whole series.

            And yes, that’s why I’m sad about the title track. They’ve yet again landed on conceptual gold–the theme of personas has a lot of potential to be thoughtfully explored, even if in a fun way (like RM’s many costumes in the intro trailer). But they’ve yet again failed to exploit the potential of the concept.

            About the variety, I have to say that Big Hit’s marketing strategy for BTS has always veered away from standards in the scene. They don’t usually do television appearances, even during the HYYH/ Wings period. But you’re right that they are neglecting their domestic market, and it’s a very dangerous move. They used to go on Korean radio talk shows more, to promote their music and also play fun quiz games. The DJs were often very insightful.

            I have a friend who’s working in Korea and she’s an Exo-L. She says that the difference between SM’s effort to secure Exo’s domestic market and BH’s effort with BTS is vast, and it’ll cost them in the long run, because after all they are a Korean group whose bread and butter is the Korean music industry. I’ve also seen Korean fans on my tweet feed lament that Big Hit is starting to neglect them.

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            ” the fact that they’re trying to capitalise on their success in the US is putting pressure on their artistic process ” I have thought this since DNA but nobody really listened me back then lol.

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            Also I wish I could upvote your second comment twice.

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            This is the problem. A classic case of too much fame and attention ruining something good. At this point I’m not convinced BTS’s producers are getting the right feedback – who okayed this album? OR
            was money the only goal? Get the next series out before the hyungs start enlisting and earn as much as possible.

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            @sicarius @purpleteapot – I saw the credits somewhere and it seems there are TOO MANY people involved in each song. Plus Bang PD, Pdogg have fewer credits, there is no Slow Rabbit and one mention of Adora at the very end of the line. I don’t like the look of that – I kNow BTS are marketed as self produced / contributing to the writing of the music but this is too much (or.too little?) – even the in house producers don’t have much to do with it, it seems.

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            @sicarius When DNA and LY:H happened, it was a nasty shock but I was willing to wait it out, because I thought it was a natural effect of not just Western media but also collaborators taking interest. I was hoping that the management and creative team would take some time to review and regroup after the LY series wrapped up. But now it seems they are set on moving in that direction.

            I didn’t like K-pop because it sounded like American pop. I liked it because it was its own thing. I liked that there were these ridiculously dramatic angsty storylines to the MVs or the concepts were wacky and pure fun. I liked that the melodies got stuck in my head way before I could understand any Korean. I liked that BTS changed the way I understood hip-hop and K-pop and popular music. It’s terrifying, because they are losing me, and potentially a lot of other longtime fans. Not that they might notice, because they’re bringing in a ton more new fans.

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            @greenfields “who okayed this album”? My thoughts exactly. I don’t know if it’s because they’re working with so many external collaborators that it’s a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth. They previously benefited from in-house production because it lent their discography a sonic coherence, even when they experimented with new genres.

            It makes me so sad to think they might be losing the positive pressure to make their music stand out now that anything they releases instantly breaks all kinds of sales and streaming records. The feedback loop is broken because of blind fan support. And MoTS is, as you note, probably their last series before the hyung line enlists. I’m hoping their music gets a serious whipping into shape for the next few albums, because if things continue the way they are, it’s a horrible note to start a hiatus on.

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            @purpleteapot
            They already have lost a lot of longtime fans. Myself included. They got me into K-pop.
            They lost me between Spring Day and DNA and even more so from then. And Yoongi is was? My ultimate bias. And yeah it’s kinda scary and hurts a lot. The weaning pains as it were. Been there done that got the t-shirt, and the cynicism.

            “The feedback loop is broken because of blind fan support”. Main I don’t even need to say anything anymore you’re just doing it all for me. Thank you. It might seem a bit of a weird thing to thank you for but I’ve had contrary opinions about BTS for some time now (as Greenie knows) and sometimes it gets tiring being the only one who thinks a certain way.

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            With that, I think I’ve run out of words. XD Your use of the words “nasty shock” is my “disappointed”. I’ll keep hoping for amazing solos, soundcloud releases and collabs like Song Request until the next, hopefully better, album comes out. Hopefully also Yoongi’s second mixtape.

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            @sicarius No, I understand what you mean. Thank you, too, for this conversation. I’ve been searching around for a proper album review/ comments by someone with more musical knowledge than me, because I want to know, from a music analysis perspective, what has gone so wrong. But all I keep seeing is a lot of squealing and genuine love for a very sub-par album. There aren’t many who see the album for what it is, or else they have been downvoted till they disappear from the conversation altogether. Even The Bias List, whom I trust for music analysis (he also is wary of K-pop’s increasingly generic sound), has mostly praise for “Boy with Luv”.

            @greenfields Ugh. That confirms our suspicions. I can’t imagine it being easy for Big Hit’s producers to assert artistic decisions if they wanted to, because they might not want to step on the toes of international collaborators.

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            @purpleteapot
            What went wrong? Oh a myriad of things. Too many cooks. Too much of a focus on selling to the western audience (when literally anything they put out would be popular they don’t have to pander so much), not enough individual sound. No strong rap line. Too much vocal effects. Not quite too many sounds as the last album, but they almost went backwards and now it’s just digital genericness after digital genericness that blends into one another. Also, I’m gonna go ahead and say it, BTS’ vocal line has poor technique and it’s ruining their voices and and that really doesn’t help when so many of the songs are vocally heavy.

            What started with BTS producing things that were a product of them (Wings) has turned into BTS the brand, with a sole intent on selling them to a wider and wider audience to the point where even their so called messages are contrived and unauthentic. But unfortunately for you and I, people are going to continue to lap it up, because that’s what blind rabid fans do.
            You’ve hit everything on the head already.
            *I see BTS as the MCU of K-pop. Lol. A lot of flashiness and not much else* *coughs* *I’m gonna get hate for that one lol*

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            I should thank you guys too @purpleteapot and @sicarius – I’m seeing a lot of adulation and praise that makes no sense to me. I went all the way to Singapore in Jan 2019 for their concert, and adore them deeply. So the disconnect I feel from this album and the adulation I see is deeply unsettling – and only gets more so as I try to listen to the album again today. I was able to break it down a little thanks to you guys.

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            disconnect I alone seem to feel as a BTS fan* vs the adulation other fans seem to be exhibiting*

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            @sicarius Nothing but the truth in those words :C Even as I’m saying all this I wish it weren’t true, but in good conscience I cannot lie, especially not to myself. I guess I’ll still have Seventeen and Astro and SF9 and my other baby-bias groups.

            I still can’t stop thinking about how good “Home” was–the song (this is how you do trends), the lyrics, the MV, THE CHOREO. My not-a-Carat-but-still feels!

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            @greenfields *hugs*

            @purpleteapot
            Rumour or no rumour I’m dying for new Zico music for similar reasons.

            Mmm yes SVT still have retained their self producing status to a greater effect and I know Woozi just likes to make music that makes people happy. He seems very laid back musically.

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    They definitely are making music fast. I wouldn’t mind a pause and maybe only releasing singles here and there to allow them the time needed to produce an epic album.

    I can’t soeak to the lyrics, that’s never been something that I pay much attention to and I haven’t read any of them for this album yet. But, I like this album as a whole. Their sound has definitely evolved, but I like that they are exploring different sounds. Do I miss some of that earlier sound? Yes, but I don’t want them stuck with one sound. I am here for the musical rollercoaster.

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    I liked boy with luv. I know the general consensus is not favourable. And even I like their songs mostly for their lyrics, but sometimes i do want something simple like DNA, and it delivered for me.

    I liked mikrokosmos and make it right, although it’s difficult to distinguish their voices, Too much autotune maybe?

    Although the lyrics of home and Jamais Vu are nice, I still need time to like them I think.

    And finally dionysius- again the general opinion is favourable, but it’s my least favourite. Jin singing adlibs is just a nice way of saying that he didn’t get lines. Sorry if it’s too critical.

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      I wanted more Jin.

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      I…don’t think your opinion is more critical than mine? Hahaha – see post above. Yeah Dionysis is ridiculously low on Jin, and I do not get why. I actually like the title too. It’s not my favorite of the BTS titles, but I like it – its good pop. I find the middle three tracks kinda blend into each other. It feels like the underlying sound – is that the future bass? – is very similar though the superficial melody differs.

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        Too many complicated words😅. But I think you mean the musical composition of the tracks is similar? I agree. And too much blending of voices. It’s good in Chorus, but not the entire song.

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          Yup. Ahaha – thank you for putting my words into a more understandable language. *sigh* I’d even say I’m a a little disappointed this time. I thought Tear lost me a little musically as well, but I still LOVED some of the tracks (Outro, Truth Untold) and loved the whole album lyrically. Here, it’s a bit…hmm… 😅

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            I liked tear though? I mean it was my first proper album so maybe I didn’t get all the changes that others did, because I had nothing to compare it to. It was definitely dark, but some songs also were hopeful like magic shop and paradise. Also outro and TU(one of my favs) were good.

            And before BTS I never put that much importance on lyrics. They were important, but not my first priority while listening to songs. So BTS kind of ruined me because I started disliking songs if the lyrics weren’t good. That’s why I have very few favs pre wings and HYYH era. Also as i said before, I didn’t like DNA initially. Also I couldn’t really enjoy songs of other artists because they were lyrically lacking. So it’s a kind of disadvantage as well. Now I’m trying to give importance to other aspects as well. That’s why I liked the title track. it’s simple and i can enjoy it without using my brains.

            It’s very complicated. I hope you understand.

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            Ofc.. I mostly like Tear as well. And I’m the same as you on lyrics.

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    I agree with G and PT on their critical evaluation. Whilst I do like the songs in general, I too agree that it is not BTS sounding. I prefer their Not Today, Fire and even earlier stuff. Very unique to them and edgy on the rap front. I do not know who is the one responsible for making them churn out album after album but surely that is gonna affect quality as it will be a race to finish in time – much like factory churning? This on top of their insane Tour schedule. As a fan, I’d be happy to get albums space out – one a year to year and half maybe? Of the whole album Dionysus is the closest to their original sound and it stood out immediately.

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      “Very unique to them and edgy on the rap front.” YUP. Nicely framed.
      I think its the pressure of the hyungs enlisting next year onwards that is pushing them to churn out albums at this pace.

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    +100 to the discussion on this post

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    Starting a new thread to join to your last reply! I didn’t know you were at the Singapore Love Yourself concert! I was there too hehe but wayyyy in the back. The boys were the size of half my pinky from where I was seated XD Also it baffles me that I’m Singaporean, but can never get used to the weather… and boy it was hot that day!

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      Jumping into this without being invited because I came all the way to Singapore for a concert too! It was for Winner and they are going back there again and I wannnnnt to hear them live again but I have no moneyyyy!! 🙁

      Anyway, the Winner concert was in a comparatively smaller venue and I was so lucky to get the front row standing! I was *this* close to the stage and it was such a great experience! But, I guess a concert is a concert and hearing the songs you love live however far you might be from the stage is amazing!

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      OMG I wish we could have met. I put out a call for a meet-up with Singaporean Beanies and actually met around 8 or 9 people over one small group-lunch and one big group-dinner.

      Also YAY for the concert! Hahah I was right in front – CAT 1. And I’m never doing the pit again. Because I wasn’t fighting to go to the very front, my friend and I chose a spot near the third stage. Big mistake. All I saw were camera phones. =.= May as well have stayed in the stands, paid a little less (T_T) and maybe been able to sit for a bit because it was exhausting. We were in queue from 12.00 pm. I did see them up close for about three songs though, so I’m less hurt. They look as good in real life as they do on camera – how is it possible? XD

      Also yes – it was hot. I’m from a coastal city too, but being on the equator is a whole other ball game. 😀

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        I realised I missed out replying to this comment! Ah I must have missed the call because I was on K-drama hiatus for a while. Maybe next time, if you ever get to come again!

        Also, I’m curious about how overseas fans got tickets. A lot of local fans were stuck in the virtual queue on the ticketing system–I was on hold for 3 hours and didn’t get a ticket, and had to buy extras off another fan (I was lucky to not have been scammed).

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          Next time, definitely. 🙂

          I got hold of tickets in the same way as you. I was in queue and stuck in the holding area for 3 hrs as well until it announced sold out. Never got in. Beanie neener is a more dedicated army than me and has a large network of armys. One of her Malaysian mutuals had extra tickets. We actually wanted CAT2 or CAT3 (because prices) but “settled” for CAT1 because those were the tickets we got. On my part it was a complete act of faith, I only know neener online (here & twt) and even she’d only met the Malaysian girl through her online army network. Truly lucky not to get scammed.

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    This was a very nice discussion to read Greenie, @purpleteapot and @sicarius!
    I had heard Sico and Kaybee saying most of this a million times over but it’s interesting to see BTS fans saying this now!

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      But not to give anyone the wrong impression – for me its still Yoongi > the rest of BTS >>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the world. I actually find it both fascinating and inconceivable that so many fans like everything their favorite idols put out, and justify all their actions. For me, love comes with the idea that I don’t have to/won’t like everything.

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