Drama Hangout: Madam Antoine
by javabeans
Annnd here’s your Drama Hangout for Madam Antoine! This offbeat JTBC drama is another show we’d weighed in on but haven’t continued recapping, but if you’ve been following along, feel free to hang out here, chat about the show, and go wild.
There are probably lots of things to discuss about the show, which pits a phony fortuneteller against a psychologist in a battle of wits. The hero is a researcher out to prove that love is just a hormonal imbalance, and secretly sends fake suitors to woo the heroine to prove it. Nobody said this was a good plan. But he’s sure to get his comeuppance when he falls for her and becomes jealous of the suitors he sent her way… right?
(It probably doesn’t need saying, but just to put it out there: These Drama Hangouts are likely to be filled with spoilers, so if you’re not up-to-date on the episodes, just keep that in mind!)
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Tags: Drama Hangout, Madam Antoine
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1 ultramarineblue
February 6, 2016 at 12:35 PM
Thank you! There was a lot of discussion in the Open Thread but its nice to have a page specific to the drama.
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simirugrat
February 6, 2016 at 2:28 PM
+1!
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renebean
February 7, 2016 at 2:36 AM
+1
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2 lailamajnun
February 6, 2016 at 1:06 PM
I still cant move beyond episode 1. Don't know why but this drama is not hitting it.
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bips99
February 6, 2016 at 1:16 PM
it Does get better in the later episodes .... its a sweet way to spend an hour.... Nothing that will stay with you but not bad for passing time
Currently liking it more tan moorim and NH.
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renebean
February 7, 2016 at 2:37 AM
Whats nh?
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applesarecool
February 7, 2016 at 4:43 AM
Maybe Neighbourhood Hero?
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3 newgirl
February 6, 2016 at 1:19 PM
Thanks jb! I'm only on ep 2, but will be sure to return to comment. I'm definitely having to practice the willing suspension of disbelief for so many things in this show, especially when it comes to medical ethics and privacy issues; but I can see it's all just a setup for romantic hi jinks and fun, so bring them on!
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renebean
February 7, 2016 at 2:38 AM
Haha same here need to catch up and yeah the psychology in this makes me shake my head
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4 Mlheartandseoul
February 6, 2016 at 1:20 PM
I'm loving the drama so far ^^
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5 Rebecca
February 6, 2016 at 1:24 PM
I find it really entertaining, actually. I've always enjoyed Sung Joon's brand of comedy; it's refreshingly held back in favor of more broad, slapstick comedy, and his jealous expressions always have me hunched over in laughing fits. I think the love-hexagon (not kidding) is a bit much, but the tone is light enough that it doesn't bother me too much. Of course, that will probably change in due course when the angst comes plodding along, and then I'll have to reassess my annoyance levels. So far it's just all kinds of cute, though not very inventive. But whatever, I don't need every drama to be Misaeng or Reply.
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Bond. James Bond.
February 8, 2016 at 3:43 PM
+1000
:D
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6 Kano
February 6, 2016 at 1:29 PM
While the psychology of love in this series is nowhere near as complex as what you get in cheese in the trap, the leads have undeniable chemistry & are both seductively witty & crafty in a fluffy (non-dark) kind of way. Definitely one of my fav rom coms, and the much needed blessing after the train wreck that was reply 1988. The post-ep18 part still makes me furious.
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7 Affie
February 6, 2016 at 1:40 PM
This is cool. I love this show. It's pretty hilarious in certain part. Sung Joon's character is so smug ! Such a know-it-all. I get a kick out of all the times Han Ye Seul's character one-ups him! He-he!
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8 Affie
February 6, 2016 at 1:42 PM
Parts*
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9 Rach
February 6, 2016 at 1:51 PM
I only watch this drama to past time so it's not something I really enjoy but it does have its moments. There are so many things that make me furious though : 1) The constant repetition of the drop of liquid on his hand, like okay I get it he probably has some abandonment issues get with it already 2) How is everybody OK with tricking a woman into falling in love? 3) SungJoon's acting is really not cutting it for me idk why it's just stiff and (my opinion) the way he speaks irks me? Like he's congested or something 4) Why do they make her a mother if it's not going to be a big part of her life like she has a daughter that's only mentioned to milk the plot along or for SJ's character to gain sympathy?
This whole drama is a bunch of cliches and for someone supposed to be good at reading people HYS's character just instantly believes SJ's reverse psycology BS about the experiment? Whaaaaat? But I'm still watching so this whole comment may be pointless
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ultramarineblue
February 6, 2016 at 2:01 PM
I agree! Some things have been making me furious but I actually quite like the drama lol.
I especially agree with your second point. the drama seems to think that presenting them as smart professionals without room for "petty" emotions excuses them from understanding the ethics of their experiments. In reality, this study would probably be thrown out the window faster than Soo Hyun can spit out a lie (which is quite fast).
I'm also hoping Hye Rim didnt fall for his lies and is simply biding her time. What episode are you up to btw?
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Rach
February 6, 2016 at 4:38 PM
I just finished episode 5 last night and is waiting for episode 6 to be subbed, but honestly, I think it's time for me to stop watching lol. But I want to know what's going to happen. Sigh. I wish someone could recap so I don't have to watch this show.
Curiosity killed the cat but hopefully satisfaction will bring this one back.
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Maru Hime
February 7, 2016 at 8:57 PM
Same here @Rach. I finished episode 5 and wanted to give it up. Some say episode 6 is better though so I'll have to give it until then.
I just can't get into the main lead's acting. I just realized that maybe that's why I didn't like High Society (leads). But doesn't Sung Joon have a good rep for acting?
The writing is lacking too. I don't understand how Madame Antoine is falling for Soo-Hyun's crap.
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alua
February 6, 2016 at 3:31 PM
<2) How is everybody OK with tricking a woman into falling in love?
Seriously problematic. I feel like everyone is a puppet – or rather, a plot device. Notice how the third guy barely tries to woo Hyerim – like he only participates in the experiment when it's needed for the plot.
<3) SungJoon’s acting is really not cutting it for me idk why it’s just stiff and (my opinion) the way he speaks irks me?
His character is badly written, but unfortunately the acting isn't helping.
<4) Why do they make her a mother if it’s not going to be a big part of her life like she has a daughter that’s only mentioned to milk the plot along or for SJ’s character to gain sympathy?
Plot device – used only when convenient. (I'm still wondering why the daughter is overseas at all.) I think this is a major issue in this drama, there's very little that feels 'natural' in the way things happens, it's not a three-dimensional world of real people that surround the characters, but a story full of (clichéd, flat) devices that fit together awkwardly at best.
<This whole drama is a bunch of cliches and for someone supposed to be good at reading people HYS’s character just instantly believes SJ’s reverse psycology BS about the experiment? Whaaaaat? But I’m still watching so this whole comment may be pointless
Hey-Rim's being swayed by Soohyun is bizarre given both that she's supposed to be good at reading people as well as given her past/characterisation (as a divorced woman that's still hurt & hasn't dated but rather shielded herself – why is she being so gullible, so readily walking into situations that are likely to cause her heartbreak? Damn, that fact that three guys – who even work together – are pursuing me at the same time would make me RUN immediately because all you can get from that situation is a mess).
I would prefer if Hye-rim actually could communicate with spirits. That would be way more fun. And I really wish the "science" part of the drama were even a tiny bit (but preferably a lot more) realistic because if we had a real psychic clashing with a real scientist, we could actually get some tension & fun out of this story. But all I'm seeing are two deluded quacks.....
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Rach
February 6, 2016 at 4:39 PM
At this point they're forgetting all about her supposed skills, like, I was pretty into the whole fake fortune teller thing but they don't even bother using that subplot anymore.
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Rach
February 6, 2016 at 4:41 PM
(I forgot to add this in) Also when SooHyun was typing his resume(?) for the experiment they put Standford instead of Stanford and I was ..... just done
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Misookie
February 6, 2016 at 6:20 PM
LOL!
This show is so ridiculous/terrible but I'm addicted. I'm genuinely loving One More Happy Ending but I'm reaching for this first on the weekend because....? I like the pseudo science and the million lovelines. That's not going to get complicated AT ALL. Sung Joon being pretty doesn't hurt either....
alua
February 7, 2016 at 12:10 AM
It's probably better he typed Standford.
If Stanford was watching and saw how this show is presenting someone who has a doctorate from their institution, they'd probably sue.
KDaddict?JCW
February 7, 2016 at 5:34 AM
Actually in Ep 1, the day he was to move into the upstairs office, some flower arrangements were there beside the stairs. One of them had "Standford University" written on it.
Eva Lee
February 7, 2016 at 10:05 AM
I think Stanford (as a brand) is not allowed in writing, so they used Standford.
light
February 7, 2016 at 2:25 AM
I really miss that part of her. It has so much potential plot.
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windsun33
February 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM
That was what made me give up on it. Made a big deal about how good she was at reading people, and by episode 2 she is already NOT reading people and back to the usual k-drama cliche and formula.
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Remi
February 6, 2016 at 6:12 PM
Same though! After Reply ended, i didn't have anything to watch so i watched it until episode 3 or so. it sounded so promising before but it turns out to be an eh. Sung Joon's acting is somewhat bland, it's High Society all over again.
Also yeah, Hye-Rim makes me frustrated. Watching her believing Soohyun fjagfjakahfhfk oh god i hate guys like Soohyun so much and yeah she's gullible. I wish she would be more untrusting or sth (keeping her personality and ability and all) but no she's already head-over-heels for him and being swayed over. It's not even a "is he being real? wtf" But more like a "oh god!! he's doing __ is this love why did i not realize it before"
(so i quit watching and watch One More Happy Ending instead, while hoping someone else reviewed this drama so i don't have to watch it) genuinely interested in the ending even though it might be sth like Hyde, Jekyll, Me's ending with the whole unsolved mystery and Soohyun realizing how wrong he is and love and peace prevailed(?)
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nomad
February 8, 2016 at 7:19 AM
omhe is being recapped here, btw. I've quit watching that one too and just reading recap.
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nara
February 7, 2016 at 1:56 AM
<2) How is everybody OK with tricking a woman into falling in love?
Seriously problematic. I feel like everyone is a puppet – or rather, a plot device. Notice how the third guy barely tries to woo Hyerim – like he only participates in the experiment when it's needed for the plot.
this is the interesting part since apparently you can fall in love NOT with the person but the situation according to the drama and the experience it doesnt matter who it is but how its done - which is infatuation - and they are trying to translate this feeling to quantify it into numbers and add making
which actually been done bf
but the notion is very interesting
since the subject later find out the it was all fake the person the action but still consider the feelings real
are we that stupid to not realize when someone like us for real
can we not see beyond the cliches gestures
i dont think so
the first woman really wanted to be inlove and lowered her defense mechanism completely
it seems she wanted to be inlove more than she cared with whom
and the drama is trying to figure out how exactly it works does it work the same on all
and should be also checking if only on women but it doesnt
i really liked it
if you can fall for anyone it means you are do not really love the person just the feeling of being in love
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Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 1:01 AM
He is a General Psychology researcher, but apparently, his main profession is psychotherapy. When (if?) he learned psychotherapy in the US, part of the training is a thorough assessment of his own psyche. And most countries (including Korea) have ongoing, obligatory peer-counselling for mental health professionals.
Really, he should have learned something about his issues at this point ...
I'm okay with that.
I don't think falling-in-love is a big deal. In fact, I did write a term paper about the hormonal and neurological complex of falling-in-love for my biology class in middle school (which was, I have to say, a bit more substantial scientifically than what the main lead seems to be doing -- but I cannot deny the philosophical similarities).
There's nothing sacred about falling-in-love. People do -- purposely or accidentally -- trick others into falling in love with them all the time. In fact, it's a necessary part of sexual selection in our species in the contemporary societies.
What's the difference between our main lead here and other instances of trying to "seduce" a person? Typical goals for tricking people into falling in love with you are something like: you like them and want them to like you back; you want money or other resources; you need to boost your ego. All these goals are socially acceptable.
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alua
February 7, 2016 at 1:54 AM
You're right, people deceive each other in real life to make others fall in love with them – but this is a scientific experiment that wouldn't get past any ethics committee, certainly not Stanford, which Soohuyn has his doctorate from. (Nor is all real-life deception "socially acceptable" – it's not "anything goes". In any case, for me Soohyun and the two flowers boys are all crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed.)
On a side note: if you doctorate-less assistant in an experiment tells the Ivy League educated guy that his experiment is doomed due to researcher bias, you know you've got a problem. Though I don't think this drama (or its writer) are smart enough to realise this.
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nara
February 7, 2016 at 2:14 AM
experiments are in a way deceiving ppl if you want best results the ppl - depend on the experiment - need to be unaware of the exact experiment
i think they will omit or even change the premises of the experiment as he will and ahs fallen for her
in real life he would have taken out himself and his brother from the experiment and in fact cancel it on HR bc now she is not a blank page and cannot be part of the experiment with other partners
but in the drama he will probably cancel the experiment all together even the results he gotten bf bc in the drama love is forever and ever and they are always inlove for eternity
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alua
February 7, 2016 at 3:21 AM
<experiments are in a way deceiving ppl if you want best results the ppl – depend on the experiment – need to be unaware of the exact experiment
I'm aware that if you are doing an experiment you don't tell subjects exactly what you are researching. But that still doesn't give you permission to do unethical things – and you cannot threaten your test subject in the way that Soohyun has done (his assistants are not allowed to quite the study unless they pay him, Hyerim isn't allowed to withdraw either).
<but in the drama he will probably cancel the experiment all together
Still not by ep. 6. Instead, he withdrew himself as Man A, found a replacement, decided he didn't like the replacement and therefore he is now going to take out the replacement and put himself back into the experiment again...
nara
February 7, 2016 at 4:14 AM
unlike legal "ethical" is a cultural thing we see ethic differently according to our upbringing and environment so what you find unethical i do not
and of course part of the drama is the realization of "real" love by CSY and of course all the regular trops
so it wont be till later eps that he will stop the experiment
this is theconclusion of the drama
but what noce about it that instead of the regular
"cant fallinlove" "cold person" "trauma"
they use an experiment t quantify love
this notion to me is new in kdrama and what hooked me to this drama in the first place
as well as having a fortune teller who doesnt believe in that - also a new one in kdrama and up my ally
alua
February 7, 2016 at 5:09 AM
@nara
<unlike legal “ethical” is a cultural thing we see ethic differently according to our upbringing and environment so what you find unethical i do not
Sure. But Dr. Fancypants Standford is going to try to publish the results of his experiment in a top international journal of his discipline, meaning it's going to have to undergo rigorous peer review. Though, to be honest, I think the peer reviewers are going to be less hung up about the ethics (it's not like Soohyun is waterboarding Hyerim for the sake of science or something) than the total lack of scientific method in the experiment.
@Jon G.
<Who am I to judge him for something that is apparently okay with Korean ethics committees?
Hehehehe. Now I'm getting visions of experiments conducted under repressive regimes... This is nothing compared to those of course.
Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 3:17 AM
But apparently he was able to get approval for two sets of experiments already. Who am I to judge him for something that is apparently okay with Korean ethics committees?
Well, deception is a relative term, isn't it?
Courtship -- and that's what he is doing -- is always deception. Only in most cases, both parties accept the deception for the sake of an assumed common goal.
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Mrmz
February 8, 2016 at 5:44 AM
Except for Sung Joon's acting, I agree with all your points, but somehow I'm still enjoying it XD
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10 tara97
February 6, 2016 at 1:55 PM
I'm actually liking this drama way more than what I've imagined .. it and one more happy ending are the best after Cheese in the trap <3 I kinda dropped moorim school after ep 4 , and remember after ep 12
I love its different style , the closing song ost <3 . Sung joon's acting is actually way better than high society or I don't know , maybe this character suits him .. what I am sure of is that I am not pissed off anymore when he's on the screen ..
The chemistry between the Leads are not the best and not the worst , it's endearing and sweet
Lastly I'm loving all the supporting leads , loving the fact that han ye seul's charecter is not that blind ( to an extent ) but I'm curious of how she'll find out about the experiment , if she actually know the facts now but couldn't just get them together and soo hyun easily fouled her ...
I actually wished you guys would recap it after dropping moorim school , but no worries you guys rock :D <3 <3
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11 ultramarineblue
February 6, 2016 at 1:56 PM
Is anyone else caught up? I just finished episode 5 and I'd like to discuss Hye Rim's reactions.
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blnmom
February 6, 2016 at 2:43 PM
Do you mean how she mostly believes what Soohyun is telling her? I think she's confused because she can read people really well and she can tell Soohyun is really falling for her. So she wants to believe what he says about the experiment, but somewhere deep down she knows what's really happening. I would love it if she ended up knowing for sure what the experiment is, and then playing along with it to milk it for all it's worth.
I like the guy who wanted to send Hyerim a heart in a math formula, he's hilarious.
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Eva Lee
February 7, 2016 at 10:15 AM
When our own emotions get involved, be it anger or love, it often clouds our natural abilities to see others for what they are.
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alua
February 6, 2016 at 3:12 PM
I've watched ep 5 and concluded Hye-rim is actually pretty stupid.
You have to be plain stupid after hearing all the details from the first test subject to then just let yourself be swayed by the obvious bullshit from Soohyun. His answers to her questions are NOT convincing. ("If the experiment was successful, why would we do it again?" Jeez, did Hyerim pay any attention in high school science class? She should have laughed right in his face at that moment. No, really, she shouldn't have confronted him at all but played the guys to get revenge.)
She's also super naïve to still believe Soohyun given that she's a divorcée that is not over what happened to her in the past and has declared herself that if she had another relationship go wrong, she would "break". I would expect her to be much, much more cautious and self-protective – she's a middle-aged woman for god's sake, not a teen in her first relationship.
The writer is really starting to piss me off with what he's presenting as a "scientific experiment" and a "professional scientific researcher with a doctorate degree".
I'm generally finding the drama pretty boring and I'm also at a point of no return for the OTP: I can't cheer for them because every time Soohyun opens his mouth and straight lies into Hyerim's face, you know it's going to have to backfire at the point when she finds out the truth (or rather, believes it). I don't care how much Soohyun will "grow" as a character in the remaining 11 episodes, how he's lying to her and using her now makes him a) lacking serious sense of "humanness" in himself and b) untrustworthy in a way that cannot be undone.
/END RANT
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chai-biscuit
February 6, 2016 at 3:36 PM
MAAANNN. I'm sooo hoping Hye-Rim is playing them! She's too smart to fall for that half-assed excuse!
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alua
February 6, 2016 at 3:39 PM
I don't think she is. I think she is feeling unsure, but currently still believes Soohyun after his smart-ass answers.
If she were smart, she would have said NOTHING to the guys, but quietly investigated further and then set up her revenge (pretend to fall in love, with all three).
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blueribbon
February 6, 2016 at 4:01 PM
I really hope she wakes up and plays them, they kind of deserve it for using the other girl in this experiment, someone needs to teach them a lesson.
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Cooler
February 6, 2016 at 11:04 PM
That's what I'm hoping. It's what I keep telling myself is the case to keep myself from screaming at a fictional character. That she knows what's going on, and she's really playing all of them. If she doesn't, and the writer has really written her to be this gullible and obtuse then the writer is a bigger ass than the one he's made Soo Hyun.
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SonyaK
February 7, 2016 at 8:49 AM
I was really, really disappointed when she found out about the expiriment and decided to confront them. It would have seemed more consistant with her character to keep it secret and start playing them.
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Maya
February 6, 2016 at 3:36 PM
Cant agree more....
Its sound ridiculous enough that 'so called' scientific experiment done with only single test subject at one time, worse that the experimentor is the one directly involve...
U got seriously bias result if this is real life experiment.. but well, its kdrama and all....
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alua
February 6, 2016 at 3:57 PM
I know it's a kdrama and that you've got to be a bit generous with these things – but this is the worst use of law/medicine/science (etc) that I have seen in any kdrama.
This experiment has NOTHING scientific about it. Not the lead researcher. Not his wishy-washy hypothesis. Not his scientific method. Not the ethics involved in the experiment (whether running it or what the results are intended for). Not the other 'researchers'/participants (and how they were chosen). Not the SINGLE subject of the study (and how she was chosen) – there can be no usable result from a sample size this small, with no control group, nothing!
Absolute NOTHING about it makes sense. But this "scientific experiment" and its "highly intelligent, professional researcher" are a crucial part of the premise – so that's a major, major issue.
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blueribbon
February 6, 2016 at 4:05 PM
I agree how the experiment was presented kind of maybe me not want to watch this show, it sounded kind of ridiculous, and didn't make sense and while I understand that with k-dramas you have to have some suspension of disbelief sometimes the premises are just too crazy.
hinako sensei
February 6, 2016 at 5:00 PM
This sums up my biggest beef with this drama. How on earth is anything about Sung Joon's character believable in any way, shape or form? He's supposed to be a respected researcher and doctor in his mid thirties, yet he looks like a 16 year old who just decides women are certain ways and here is this one experiment I did to prove it.
As a woman, I am continually baffled and insulted by his behavior. In the latest episode he tried to FIRE her because he developed feelings for her! As a person with sense, I am insulted by how stupid the story line is and how two dimensionally the characters play off each other. It doesn't feel like anyone has real relationships with each other. To be honest, I must still be watching to see if this show has any ability to grow, but given how its handling psychology and patient cases, I have little to no hope.
It is pretty stunning how unlikable the protagonist is, though. The fact that she might forgive and believe him after all this . . . I so badly want her character to kick him to the curb, but she seems to get less aware with each episode. It's quack talking to quack. I feel sorry for their patients.
alua
February 7, 2016 at 2:05 AM
@Hinako_Sensei
<How on earth is anything about Sung Joon’s character believable in any way, shape or form?
Right?!
<It doesn’t feel like anyone has real relationships with each other.
It's bizarre. I feel like this drama is telling me there are deep feelings (between people that barely know each other and have treated each other quite terribly – I mean, what's "attracting" Hyerim to a guy that keeps belittling her and tries to control her?), but everything I'm seeing is extremely superficial.
< The fact that she might forgive and believe him after all this . . . I so badly want her character to kick him to the curb, but she seems to get less aware with each episode.
I find it her character very oddly written. Like she seemed spunky and smart in the first couple of episodes, and now she's getting stupider by the minute? I understand that people can be manipulated, but Soohyun isn't convincing enough to qualify as a manipulator (say, like abusers in a relationship with DV are), he's a total fake.
nara
February 7, 2016 at 2:17 AM
can you explain what you mean by
"This experiment has NOTHING scientific about it. Not the lead researcher. Not his wishy-washy hypothesis."
how do you think "scientific" experience are done?
Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 4:00 AM
I'm not alua, but let me try to answer this question.
A scientific experiment in general is an organised and detailed sequence of steps to validate (or reject) a hypothesis.
Soo-hyun doesn't have a testable hypothesis. His experiment is definitely not consisting of detailed and organised steps that would be necessary to reproduce it.
It features exactly zero of the characteristics of a scientific experiment.
The discipline of the experiment seems to be Emotion Psychology, a part of General Psychology. As such, experiments are about traits of the human mind in general. Opposed to studies(not: experiments) in Clinical Psychology that often focus on one or few individuals with certain mental issues, General Psychology experiments need to be robust against individual characteristics of the test subjects. To do that, you need a number of subjects in your experiment that is significantly larger than "1".
Experiments in social sciences are very difficult to design correctly. Validity is really an issue here. His experimental setup is not reproducible, is not independent of the experimenters, violates almost all variables to nullify internal validity and has no external validity in the first place.
Even if it was a scientific experiment in general, it wouldn't be a psychological experiment.
That is, of course, before we even look at the way the "experiment" is carried out: He arbitrarily changes variables throughout the experiment, he doesn't have a consistent cover story, he lies in an ad-hoc fashion to the test subject about aspects of the experiment, he arbitrarily gives information about the experiment to the test subject, he puts pressure on the test subject to participate, and so on and so forth.
Even if it was a planed scientific psychological experiment, the way he's conducting it would destroy any scientific value (that it honestly never had in the first place).
And that's before we even start to talk about the ethic aspect ...
nara
February 7, 2016 at 4:21 AM
thanx jon although it was cynically meant
to show this experiment is done correctly academic wise
nara
February 7, 2016 at 4:27 AM
"Soo-hyun doesn’t have a testable hypothesis. His experiment is definitely not consisting of detailed and organised steps that would be necessary to reproduce it.
It features exactly zero of the characteristics of a scientific experiment."
completely disagree
moreso it was done so many times bf
and by the way for the purpose of advertisement
what exactly is un scietntifically about it?
you have and hypothesis and you ut it to the test
it would have been completely acceptable in theory in academia
only problem is that ppl are pretty wary of the "love" subject since it affects everyone in someway
nara
February 7, 2016 at 4:43 AM
about the one with him and HR will be canceled after since he will fall for her for real
and in fact participating at all
of course we know fromthe start that his wanting to participate is not objective
im talking about bf of course
and what they do give us is what supposed to happen vs how he manipulates to his advantage
but is we think about the proximity issue
if in all dramas -kdramas in fact- the surprise proximity is used to show attraction of the couple for one another
here we know it is to cause invasion of privacy that cause a "flattering" which the person then mistake for attraction to the other person
which we saw how SH used it on HR and making her heart bit fast and her perplexed reaction
they give us true reason to why our heart flatter even as viewers
since it is a kdrama and they NEVER depict professionalism in any thing well maybe food industry
but any other industries or professions were NEVER depicted truthfully so it is part of watching a kdrama to accept this potholes as they are always there
alua
February 7, 2016 at 4:48 AM
Thank you, Jon G., you're saving me a lot of time and saying it better than I would have. :-D
I think I can only add other than the fact that a significantly larger number of subjects is needed (which should not be randomly chosen – you don't just pick the pretty ahjumma from the café downstair), a control group is also required.
<He arbitrarily changes variables throughout the experiment
This is driving me bonkers!!! He puts himself in the experiment, took himself out of it, and now he's just decided he's going to be in again! I guess he's drugged up by "love" but this is just ridiculous.
Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 4:50 AM
Okay, what is the hypothesis of his experiment then?
"Love does not exist" is not a hypothesis.
"Being-in-love can be induced in a test subject by doing steps a-b-c" could be a test hypothesis (depending on how you conceptionalise it), but it's not a hypothesis he is using for his experiment obviously.
Memory does affect everyone (almost all the time) and yet there are thousands of experiments about memory without any issue. In fact, everything in General Psychology does affect everyone (hence the name General Psychology).
Look, I personally agree with Soo-hyun on some level: I too believe that falling/being-in-love is a state-of-mind like any other, that it is just a mix of a certain neurological condition and a hormonal cocktail. And I know that it can be induced in people by external stimuli.
But that doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have a testable hypothesis for his experiment. Okay, let's just say that Soo-hyun's courtship of Hye-rim would work. What would be the result of his experiment? That "love does not exists"? That "love was induced in her by Soo-hyun"? That "woman fall in love with rich men"?
No, the result of his experiment would be that Hye-rim fell in love with Soo-hyun. Scientific value: Zero.
I sure would love a K-drama about a psychological researcher who really tries to do research on being-in-love (unlike many other people here, I guess). But this one simply isn't such a K-drama.
nara
February 7, 2016 at 6:09 AM
"“Love does not exist” is not a hypothesis.
“Being-in-love can be induced in a test subject by doing steps a-b-c” could be a test hypothesis (depending on how you conceptionalise it), but it’s not a hypothesis he is using for his experiment obviously."
this is his own feeling and actually whenever they talk about it they talk about causes
love is an abstract the whole sentence is in fact incorrect in this sentence it is presented as religion as in "i dont believe in god"
which is completely different then researching what causes and make ppl believe
what makes ppl (women here) fall inlove is very different then a his sentence of his own unrelated beliefe in the existence itself
although i dont believe in god i do know there are religion ppl believe in
nara
February 7, 2016 at 6:21 AM
unlike love memory and dreams have found a way of becoming culturally helpful ppl are readily volunteer sharin there dreams and memory in a way of getting help to analize them
also memories are helpful mechanism the brain collect your experiences and tells you what you learned from them from your memories
unless it is a really troumatic experience most memories even sad ones looking back makes you reminiscent
memories are no experiences they are the lessons of those experiences
for example when that first woman in the drama will look back on this experience if she is a healthy human she would have a different reaction then the one she has now
memories and dreams have a known therapeutic ability on your mental health
Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 6:21 AM
@nara
But he doesn't do that kind of research.
Can you please tell me what the hypothesis is that he is testing with his experiment?
Because that was never stated in the show; and it definitely isn't derivable from the experiment, which simply consists of seducing Hye-rim in a rather inefficient way.
nara
February 7, 2016 at 6:35 AM
i dont think there is a god
i meant that he should have said as a scientist i dont think there is love
humans studies always tackle the abstract they dont (hopefully) "believe" in it
his own love thing wasnot part of the experiment reasoning but part of a casual conversation with his student assistant
we dont really see the experiment as it was really made since we see only the end results and some of the last part
he didnt participate and did made a timetable and rules as was said in the first and second ep
but since he wanted to participate - since we know she triggered something in him ths whole experiment is no longer objective and follows the rules
but from this point that drama is trying to prove the opposite than his hypothesis
which is you can fall with anyone if it is done in a specific way according to rules
what the drama is trying to show that love is specific and forever
the show doesnt try to shw the experiment on HR but how it affects and influence CS
while she will have the usual experience he will have a revelation one
it is his point who changing not hers
Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 6:37 AM
@nara
Love is not culturally helpful, as opposed to memory and dreams? I don't follow. Isn't it rather the other way around?
Psychological research does not rely on the readiness of test subjects to "share". It cannot, because people have no idea about what's going on in their minds. The introspection inadequacy has been established almost a hundred years ago.
Whether people want to share their experiences or not is mostly irrelevant to psychological research.
Which is mostly irrelevant to Memory psychology or General psychology. Psychologists do not research memory because of its therapeutic potential, they research it because they want to know how it works.
Clinical psychology then uses that knowledge to "exploit" it for its therapeutic features, but that's the application, not the research.
I still am not sure what you are trying to say here: memory research and emotion research are very similar. It might be a little bit more difficult to find volunteers as test subject in emotion psychology, but in the end, it works just as well.
What do you think is so very different between emotion psychology and memory psychology?
And why and how does this difference effects this show?
nara
February 7, 2016 at 7:02 AM
i put memory and dreams together since you gave the memories as an example for love, right?
you said that there are experiment on memories without any issues as equivalent for love and therefore added the dreams
since the memories of the days are stored and then manipulated by dreams to make us healthier the next day
clinical memories studies are part of brian research
and i didnt bring it up you did
clinical research always have less social accepting problems than psychological ones since we can discover things that actually make a different to us and not humans and development in general
thats whay i countered it with religion which is much closer to the subject of love and have the same social problems
its hard for me to find the related post so if you dont mind - lets start a new one the next time
not being able to reply specifically is inconvenient
Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 7:32 AM
@nara
(1) Big difference between "love" and "god": Most people have first- or second-hand experiences with effects from "love", but not with "god". "God" is indeed, and almost by definition, solely an entity of belief.
For "love", the question is not whether it exists or not -- it clearly exists -- but what it is and how it works.
"Believing in love" and "believing in god" are two entirely different kinds of "believing"s.
"I don't think there is love" (here: falling/being-in-love) doesn't make much sense. "I think that being/falling-in-love is a derivative of a different, underlying phenomenon." on the other hand would be a rather trivial and universally accepted statement.
True.
Timetable != organised and detailed step-by-step.
True, he haven't seen much of the first experiment, but we have seen him botching the "debriefing" of the test subject and that video he made. Neither met scientific standards in emotion psychology. Not to mention we still don't know what hypothesis this "experiment" was supposed to test.
Wait, wait, not so fast ...
You mean that this is his hypothesis? Or the opposite of his hypothesis?
His hypothesis is: "You can fall in love with anyone if it (what?) is done in a specific way, according to specific rules."
Meaning that he has a model of how falling in love works and a set of rules how you make a person falling in love.
If he wanted to test this hypothesis, he needed to design an experiment where he tests this hypothesis, don't you agree? Why doesn't he do that? Why does he set up an experiment where three men compete for a woman in an uncontrolled, not timed, mostly random kind of way?
Even before Soo-hyun did start to become heavily biased about Hye-rim, he never gave any instruction to the men in his experiment how to manipulate the supposed test subject. If he wanted to test whether his model for rule-based falling-in-love was correct, he would have tested these rules in the experiment. He didn't. He simply decided to create random, unplanned courtship encounters and didn't care at all about what the other two men did.
(As for...
Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 7:56 AM
@11.2.2.1.16 nara
I replied in a separate thread down below (#33).
Kai To
February 7, 2016 at 8:12 AM
Although the show has disappointed me, the discussion within Dramabeans has not.
I'm a fan of psychological drama and desperately wanted to like it but the main lead... For lack of a better word, makes me feel sick with his petty intentions.
I'm glad there's this page to help me process this through!
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SonyaK
February 7, 2016 at 8:52 AM
Well said. This is an excellent thread!
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Eva Lee
February 7, 2016 at 10:16 AM
Some of his comments seem a bit sociopathic.
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12 kira
February 6, 2016 at 2:33 PM
I really love this drama!
First, I love the Leads and their chemistry. I think the episodes seem to be more interested and I prefer this to Cheese in the trap.
I think Madame Antoine suffers from enormous competition and it's bad. It's a typical drama, it's true but an enjoyable one.
You should watch it and make your opinion.
Enjoy ;)
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nara
February 7, 2016 at 2:44 AM
me too i prefer this to CITT as i thought it was pretty stupid
the characters and the storyline
but i love this how can we make ppl fall inlove - well women - scientifically
BTW add companies do use a lot the gimmicks that imitates falling in love in order to catch and make women buy
although here it is as if its the first
in reality thats how they used advertisement since the 50th and still go on till now
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kira
February 7, 2016 at 6:43 AM
I didn't know that those kind of researches are used in marketing with thoses adds!
I'm very addicted to this drama, and I I find it unfortunate that the ratings are low ...
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13 Sam
February 6, 2016 at 3:23 PM
I'm totally loving this cuter than anything romcom! Lol. The actors are wonderful and pull me right into the story. :) I'm alway excited to get the new episodes and will watch them raw if it hasn't been subtitled yet! Adorable story. Makes me smile alot! lol
;) Aloha nui loa
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Lunatic4KD
February 6, 2016 at 4:33 PM
Aloha to you @Kealoha, I'm Kama'aina currently in California. I also really love this show. It's not taking itself seriously (which silly Moorim is) and the leads are adorable. I do think Sung Joon is one of the best kissers out there (see him in I Need Romance 3!) and I loved Han Ye-Seul in Birth of a Beauty, so I think their chemistry will be fabulous when the love story heats up. I don't really care where the story goes - it's a delight to watch.
Also, it's really fun to see Jinwoon from 2AM stretching his acting chops in this. For fun, check out this great 2AM video and Jinwoon, the opening singer with longish red hair ...such a great song! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF4oaPVq_Ro
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14 blueribbon
February 6, 2016 at 3:30 PM
From what I have seen I like that the heroine is smart and kind of knows what is going on.
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SonyaK
February 7, 2016 at 8:56 AM
There are. Moments I believe that too. I am just utterly confused as to how anyone could like someone with such marked insincerity. She even calls him out on it! Are we really supposed to buy that he is rich and famous, therefore a good match.... Wtf?
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15 Lilium
February 6, 2016 at 3:30 PM
It's a zany and somewhat unpredictable drama and I'm enjoying the quirky vibe.
What I really like are these quiet moments of genuine attraction. When there's no manipulation or agenda... just two people getting closer.
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16 Kreyon
February 6, 2016 at 4:32 PM
How are we feeling about the possible love line with Jeong Jinwoon's character and the ahjumma (halmoni??) doctor? Like I'm usually allll about that noona love but this time... idk, its kinda unsettling
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katasu1996
February 6, 2016 at 4:35 PM
Comment was deleted
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SonyaK
February 7, 2016 at 8:59 AM
Yeah, all for Noona love, but generally because the guy is chasing after the girl with reckless abandon. This is more guy is polite and girl develops stalker syndrome. But at least she even realizes herself how silly she is being. I feel bad for her character.
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anna96
February 7, 2016 at 11:23 PM
But like learning piano for him and getting jealous and stuff..... Even if and older male lead did this to a younger female lead it would be disturbing
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17 katasu1996
February 6, 2016 at 4:33 PM
I love this show because its cute and fun, but lets be real the plot holes are huge. I mean HyeRim is pretty dumb considering she's supposed to be this person with the natural skill to read micro expressions but is simply untrained, and let's not even get started on the lack of science involved in the experiment they're in. But it's cute, and if I let a lot slide, it's just sweet and fun. However, there is one thing I really can't stand, it's the freaking older lady psychologist. First of all, that lady is a real cougar. She's honestly super creepy constantly chasing Seung Chan. It's not cute, it's just weird, and also I feel very little pity for her dying, seeing that she's choosing to not get treatment because "everyone dies eventually." LIKE WHAT!? It doesn't help that she is chasing someone fully well knowing her death is imminently near, basically not caring this person will suffer once she, you know, DIES. For someone who is supposed to be this educated, classy, like 56 year old woman, damn she is selfish, and pretty damn naive while we're at it. The lady goes into shock when she and Seung Chan make any kimd of physical contact. Look, I know you've been married before. You are not the Virgin Mary, why are you acting like a man has never touched you before? Anybody share my opinion?
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Annie
February 6, 2016 at 4:57 PM
It's about as gimmicky and insincere as the rest of the drama and the actors, as expected, have sub-zero chemistry.
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alua
February 7, 2016 at 2:08 AM
+1
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Rach
February 6, 2016 at 5:00 PM
I literally LOLed at your comment haha. I don't mind the old lady psycologist that much because she's not given much screentime, and I don't see how Seungchan is going to fall for her when he's starting to like HyeRim. But I really think they're putting waaay too much emphasis on how she's just like a "young girl". Like damn, was she one of those workaholics in dramas that has never experienced "a man's touch"? And honesty, Get TREATMENT!! Like if that's her argument then the human population might as well cease to exist because, we're dead in the end anyways. Whatevs.
I personally am not a fan of big age gaps whether IRL or in fictional stories mainly because I feel like there's always going to be a power imbalance from the older one, and how they'd be molding the younger one (especially like those 10+ year age gaps) into their expectations of a lover? Dunno, was and will continue to be irked by big age gaps.
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Annie
February 6, 2016 at 5:12 PM
Not to mention all the practicalities of being in different life stages that always get swept under the rug... mustn't let logic ruin our fantasies, amirite?
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bips99
February 8, 2016 at 11:24 AM
Strangely i would have liked this arc about an older woman finding joy in the last stages of her life.
But here its just cringe worthy. Is it the acting, the writing ? I literally fast forward all her scenes
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alua
February 8, 2016 at 12:29 PM
Maybe because they're giving off such a mother-son vibe?
I mean, it's so obvious he's just being polite, treating her like he treats any older woman (a woman old enough to be his mother). There's not an inkling of interest from him, and no chemistry between them either, meanwhile, she's reacting like those virginal leading ladies you quite often get in kdramas (the ones that nearly faint if the guy's hand brushes against them or if he walks around shirtless ––– as if they had never seen someone of the male species before, not in school, not at work, not at the beach.... *rolls eyes*).
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kalel
February 8, 2016 at 11:04 PM
I have no problem whatsoever with the lack of science in k-dramas (actually in any TV-series from any part of the world). There are huge and, sometimes, unforgiveable mistakes in every medical show I've watched and that used to make me furious -even in Dr. House, several rare cases were wrong from the first to the last symptom. However, as I grow up, I realise that, most of the time, entertainment has almost nothing to do with reality. So, I made my peace with that, otherwise no more fun for me.
But from what I've observed in the blogosphere, the nit-picking starts when the entertainment is out. When people begin to post odd, narcissistic comments about their own personal field of expertise forgetting the key-factor that they're actually watching fiction and not documentary, they're not enjoying themselves anymore. Should they quit the particular show? I think so. The fun is long gone.
PS I don't care about the "cougar". It could never happen in any Asian society because they usually worship "youth and beauty"; therefore the "pretty-boy-falling-for-an-older-woman" myth is a plot device for uplifting female viewers' moral and has nothing to do with reality (quite my personal observation). Besides, being married to a man does not make her an expert on flirting. Usually in k-dramas, the ex-husband is the woman's first (and probably last) sex partner. If we also add the notorious "match-making marriage", we get a pretty good idea of what sex actually means to married women in too many societies.
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18 eerinmide
February 6, 2016 at 5:16 PM
UGH! THIS DRAMA IS A LITTLE OFF! Like, one notch away from perfect. Something just seems off! Also, it is getting really hard to support Sung Joon's character. Like its getting really really bad.. He is TAKING IT TO DESPICABLE LENGTHS! Like chill bruh, your sexiness is not even making you any less jerkier at this point.
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SonyaK
February 7, 2016 at 9:01 AM
I am soooo with you. I love the actor, but dayum the character is ruining his shmexiness.
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19 Yashashree Jadhav
February 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM
Does anyone know the name of the actor who plays the new patient in Ep 5-6 (the co-worker of Yoo Rim?) the one who has problems when he gets drunk? I feel like I should know him from another drama (in which he perhaps played a doctor? I could be mistaken)
but I really want to know his name!
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Alessar
February 6, 2016 at 7:55 PM
Yeah! He was the loyal servant in Scholar Who Walks The Night. His name is Choi Tae Hwan. He was also in Imaginary Cat and I believe he played a veterinarian. Who knew that the cute sidekick actually had amazing six pack abs? I mean seriously I was not expecting him to take off his shirt and not just be a scrawny dude, but actually have some nice definition.
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Yashashree Jadhav
February 6, 2016 at 8:20 PM
Yes!!! thanks!! I knew I remembered him from something recent! haha yeah he is surprisingly pretty good! :D
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20 Jien
February 6, 2016 at 5:33 PM
I'm on episode 5 now and I feel Sung Joon's acting is, so far,... unconvincing. It's like he's struggling in portraying his character. Expression, tone, even some of his gesture are kinda off. To me.
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growingbeautifully
February 6, 2016 at 6:52 PM
Yes, Sung Joon might have been better before, but in this show he seems to be pretty off target in most areas... does not look professional as a doctor, does not look like he even cares whether he convinces Hye Rim that he likes her, or else he just looks kind of 'dead'. When he was speaking to Hye Rim, it looked like he was thinking how he was supposed to act or what expression he had to put on and I felt that I could see that he made the effort to put on that expression. It was so strange, and felt so wrong.
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Jien
February 6, 2016 at 11:13 PM
Yepp, he is way better in I Need Romance3. And now, after watching ep 6, Im positive that I won't continue watching this drama. Can't stand Sung Joon's acting and it's oh-very-predictable-story-only-by-seeing-the-preview mood.
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alua
February 7, 2016 at 1:42 AM
Me too. I've watched ep 6 now and I'm done with this drama.
Not that ep 6 was necessarily worse than ep 5 – it was just as stupid and so obviously a mess that I just can't be bothered anymore.
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Jeanie
February 7, 2016 at 8:17 AM
Gosh, me too. Didn't even get too finish ep 5 but I went here to see how people are finding it and to see if I missed a lot after I stopped. Agree also on Sung Joon. Takes me out of the story, like he's busy getting his lines out or something. Or maybe that's how his character should be acting?
SonyaK
February 7, 2016 at 9:03 AM
I have to soldier on, just to see his fall... If there is no legitimate fall, I will have to flip some tables.
anna96
February 7, 2016 at 11:24 PM
Same here
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bips99
February 8, 2016 at 11:22 AM
"I have to soldier on, just to see his fall… If there is no legitimate fall, I will have to flip some tables."
.... What fall ? She knows they did the exact same experiment and yet she believes his absolutely unconvincing lies. I doubt she is going to give him grief when everything is revealed.
21 Kimyoung
February 6, 2016 at 5:34 PM
I watched it, liked the first 2 episodes and continued to watch it until this ep 5 which I made my decision to just drop it.
1) Theres zero chemistry between the leads and watching Han Ye Seul TRY so hard to create sparks is painful. The fake pretty laughing, the widening of eyes to signal electricity, the effort to make herself ugly... argh. I’ve watch all her productions except the spy one, and she’s at her worst here. The botox on her lips is also taking its toll, it looks somewhat strange in certain scenes. I hope she doesn’t go down the Lee Dahae route.. I actually really liked her.
2)Sung Joon. Was he always this bad. I found him pretty charming in I Need Romance 3 but here he is just BAD. His acting is so overdone and his character is written plain annoying. I dropped the drama largely due to him. He is very very painful to watch..
3) JInwoon and the other flower boy does not fare better. Zero chem with Han Yeseul and their acting is just poor. Period.
4)Like what one of the posters above said, the nail that closed the coffin on this production is really the scriptwriting. Its terrible and the writer did lose the plot after ep 2. I agree with having Han Yeseul discover she does have some paranormal skills make a better storyline than being stuck in the worst social experiment with zero rationality and run circles around it.
The only redeeming thing I took from my five hours invested in it are the vintage decor ideas on how to make my home look more quaint and quirky. Loved the sets, dislike the production. Bleh.
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alua
February 7, 2016 at 12:20 AM
I'm not getting any chemistry either. None. I don't get at all why Hyerim is falling for Soohyun – he's been nasty to her (him trying to throw her out of her place isn't that long ago!), she's been uncomfortable in his presence, he belittles her and then occasionally he throws in a bouquet of roses or a "I like you", which – despite being acquainted for what I'm guessing is no more than a few weeks – is apparently enough to sway her after a painful divorce and several years of not dating. She needs to ask him "Why do you like me?" because he so obviously would have no answer.
Sung Joon was fine in I Need Romance 3 and in Shut Up Flower Boy Band. Less so in High Society but I bailed very early because that drama was terrible as well.
The two flower boys are just typical k-drama casting – supporting leads that are very pretty but have limited acting skills. (Often these roles go to idols. Not sure if either one is in an idol in this case.)
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alua
February 7, 2016 at 12:22 AM
Though I should say in defense of the flower boys, their supporting roles are so flatly written that it's hard to do much with them. Particularly if you are just an okay actor (or less).
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SonyaK
February 7, 2016 at 9:12 AM
hahaha, love the vintage decor comments!
I have felt a little chemistry between Jinwoon and Ye-suel's characters, but yeah.... Absolutely nothing between the rest. And I cannot fathom why Hyerim would like Soohyun at all.
At this point, I can't even blame the actors though.... Ye-suel and Jinwoon have the only remotely believable characters (probably why their acting feels the most natural). But the Soohyun, Ji-ho and Professor characters... Wtf? Is the writer trying to make a trite comic sketch with them? I have a Ji-ho blink blink moment at the end of each episode...
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Fuujin
February 7, 2016 at 12:29 PM
I've never found SJ particularly good, though my experience with him has been limited. But he has always struck me as wooden and unconvincing, so I'm actually not bothered by him here at all because he's no worse than expected. In fairness to the guy, he's about 25 years old (and he looks it) and keeps getting cast as someone much older at a completely different phase in life. That would be tough for a really gifted actor, which he is not.
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bips99
February 8, 2016 at 11:18 AM
Thats actually an interesting point. You have to a good actor to play someone older than your age. If he were to play his age - he would be ok i guess. I liked him in SUFBB
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Fuujin
February 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM
I've read that he was great in SUFBB and he seemed to get a lot of love as Sweet Potato in INR3; and (if I'm not mistaken) in both he played characters around his own age. Maybe something more appropriate will will come along for him. After all, you can't just stick a turtleneck and a blazer on someone and call him 35. :-)
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22 blueribbon
February 6, 2016 at 7:16 PM
This is kind of out of topic but if anyone is looking for the songs in Cheese in the trap, like me I have been hunting everywhere for the songs, I found a website that lists almost all the songs
https://my30uplife.wordpress.com/2016/01/16/cheese-in-the-trap-list-of-ost-ongoing/
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growingbeautifully
February 6, 2016 at 8:30 PM
Thanks @ Blueribbon! I want the OST of all the currently airing shows actually LOL! Love to listen to them while walking around and doing stuff other than watching the shows themselves. :)
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Adal
February 7, 2016 at 7:46 PM
Thanks so much for this list. I was looking for CITT's OST everywhere. I have bookmarked the page.
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23 Rach
February 6, 2016 at 8:30 PM
It is time to quit this drama, episode 6 just made the decision instant for me. I can't stand the plot holes anymore and I was going to write a whole big paragraph but that makes me even MORE frustrated and angry so I'm just gonna ..... go
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24 bips99
February 6, 2016 at 9:00 PM
... I read a book once - about a fake psychic and a man determined to prove that she is fake. The dynamics were fab!
It would have awesome if they had gone this route, or like ppl suggested have her be a real one, or have both of them fight over clients ....... anything but this "EXPERIMENT"
They have completely dropped the psychic part, which is btw the title of the show
Shows like this, moorim, NH etc break my heart a little bec of such wasted potential.
.... I still do watch it bec it is silly, light and breezy and it does make me smile sometimes. But it could have been so much more
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lizzy
February 7, 2016 at 12:26 AM
Can you please share with me the title of the book? It sounds awesome.
While the premise of Madam Antoine has tremendous potential, the writing left a lot to be desired. I might be able to substitute the drama with the book you're talking about as i'm thinking of dropping the drama. I just can't stand it anymore but I really like HYS though.
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bips99
February 8, 2016 at 11:15 AM
Its a romance novel set in Regency london. For 18+.
Called proof by seduction by courtney milan.
Despite the really tacky title, its actually a very interesting book about the fake psychic who has the ability to read people very well.
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lizzy
February 9, 2016 at 12:03 AM
Thank you so much<3
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Jeanie
February 7, 2016 at 8:26 AM
Honestly, I thought this show would be like that. Psychologist trying to prove the fake psychic wrong and in the process falling in love with her. I mean from the title, Madam Antoine, I thought that would be the focus. Lol, by ep 2. she quit that and went to work for the doctor.
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anna96
February 7, 2016 at 11:27 PM
The experiment's name is Madame Antoine too btw
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25 metz
February 6, 2016 at 9:52 PM
I don't love this series, but keep watching it nontheless, it's the drama I turn to while waiting for Cheese.
I like both the leads, since they are pretty and easy on the eyes (yes, I am superficial), and the color palette is way better than One More Happy Ending (the color is what stopped me from watching OMHE)
And about the story, I don't really care about my screen when Sung Joon and Han Ye-seul not in it, so I don't get bothered by the nonsensicality of the plot.
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26 mochakat9
February 6, 2016 at 10:35 PM
I like this show because it is so obviously fake and clichéd. I happily suspend any sense of reality or scientific morality and just have fun with the insane storyline. It's like cotton candy and makes me giggle.
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27 Tazzo
February 6, 2016 at 10:56 PM
This is a very fun drama....upbeat and hilarious, v witty!
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28 Dahlia
February 7, 2016 at 1:34 AM
This drama is like a bag of chocolate covered potato chips. It's so bad for me, I'm going to hate myself later, and yet I keep reaching for it while saying "Just ONE more...."
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blnmom
February 7, 2016 at 11:17 AM
Yum!
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29 light
February 7, 2016 at 2:39 AM
Sadly, I dropped it after the 4th episode. I zoned out in many parts of episode 4. It had so much potential. I wonder why Sung Joon gets so many lead roles. he cant act well. But I liked him enough in Discovery of Romance. Goodbye show.
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30 growingbeautifully
February 7, 2016 at 6:33 AM
Episode 6 - Brief recap.... Therefore... *** SPOILERS ***
Doc Bae slips and falls on Seung Chan and takes the opportunity to ask him to help her choose exercise equipment. They make plans to go shopping on a Saturday.
Soo Hyun and Doc Bae review the video of Sung Oh, Yoo Rim's colleague with a trauma that emerges when he's drunk, but can't get very far since it was Soo Hyun who fell asleep in mid-interview!
Hye Rim meets President Kim at his home and tells him about the first experiment that was run by Soo Hyun. Kim thinks that Soo Hyun could sitill be running the experiments and this upsets Hye Rim, since it means that Soo Hyun might have lied to her again. As she leaves the house, she sees a young woman who looks sickly, but cannot find out who she is.
Ji Ho tells Seung Chan that Hye Rim had found out about the first experiment and that Soo Hyun had lied to her that the experiment she was in, was not the of the same type. However Seung Chan hears that Hye Rim had said, that if she was being experimented on in the same way, she would curse him til the day she died. Soo Hyun's mood had been dark, and he'd worried the whole day. Seung Chan catches on that Soo Hyun actually cares about Hye Rim and to test it he lies to Soo Hyun that Hye Rim had a deadly disease, Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis.
Soo Hyun stays up to research the disease and find out where Hye Rim can get treatment. Seung Chan calls him out on this, saying that he had lied about Hye Rim's health but that it had proved how much Soo Hyun liked Hye Rim. He suggests that now Soo Hyun himself is aware that he likes her, he should stop the experiment. Soo Hyun refuses to stop the experiment but he takes himself out of it and decides to find a replacement for Male Subject A. He has flashbacks of the more tender moments he had with Hye Rim but in his Experiment Log he says he had received a terrible signal from his brain and put it down to a hormone that was detrimental to the experiment. Hah!
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growingbeautifully
February 7, 2016 at 6:35 AM
He decides to separate himself from Hye Rim as if "Out of sight, out of mind" will work for him. He tries to get Hye Rim to quit her job as counsellor and says he's got a project elsewhere and that the centre was going to close. Hye Rim susses out that he is just using the project as an excuse and is not giving her the real reason for wanting her to quit or for their separation.
Yoo Rim and Ji Ho are at a sauna. She kisses him when she thinks he is sleeping, but he is awake and asks her to help him note the effects of a kiss by kissing him again. He likes it. Then he runs off to try it with Hye Rim! LOL!
Seung Chan cheers Hye Rim up with a game of one-on-one hoops, and they go for drinks where Hye Rim gets drunk. She answers a call from Soo Hyun on Seung Chan's phone and tells him off for not wanting to see her after being the first to start a relationship with her. Soo Hyun is upset to find that Hye Rim was not much affected by their 'break-up' at all.
Back to Sung Ho who takes a long time but does reveal a childhood of sustained abuse, so that he hated his father and left home as soon as he hit age 20. Persuaded by Soo Hyun, to see his father as a step in getting over his trauma, he visits his father who is dying in hospital. Sung Ho breaks down literally and is in tears and on the floor, as he tells his father that he cannot forgive him.
Hye Rim is still upset (by doubts over whether Soo Hyun lied, and his separating himself from her) and takes it out on Yoo Rim who tries to find out if Ji Ho had kissed her.
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31 growingbeautifully
February 7, 2016 at 6:37 AM
Soo Hyun rejects both the very attractive men that Ji Ho had persuaded to take part in the experiment, out of jealousy, since they both looked very eligible and quite hot! In the mean time Yoo Rim gets to 'teach' Ji Ho how to give a full-on kiss. At first he is shocked by the kiss but then he decides to participate fully in it! :D
Soo Hyun finally selects a Professor of Engineering, Prof Jo, to be Male Subject A. He
meets Hye Rim to get his fortune told and it's a hilarious how she is has to switch from French, to Spanish and finally to German to speak to Marie Antoinette since Prof Jo is adept in a few European languages himself. He asks Hye Rim out to a movie with him. She decides to go and to resign her position at the Centre.
When Soo Hyun finds out that she had agreed to go out with Prof Jo, and that she had been dressed up very nicely for her 'date', he claims that he should approach the experiment as an impartial observer but he resorts to stalking Prof Jo and Hye Rim all through their 'date' in disguise. He almost loses them in a restaurant, (after deliberately, 'accidentally' knocking a drink into Prof Jo's lap), and runs flailing after them, but they had figured out that they had a stalker and report him to the police.
Finally getting out of the police station, Soo Hyun announces that he would resume his role as Male Subject A. Unable to allow the 'date' to continue any further, Soo Hyun confronts Prof Jo and drags Hye Rim away. When Prof Jo demands to know what Soo Hyun is doing, Hye Rim realises in shock, that the two men know each other.
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growingbeautifully
February 7, 2016 at 6:49 AM
Comments on Episode 6
This episode has perhaps started a new thread with the sickly girl in President Kim's home... maybe she will be a future patient that Hye Rim will help?
I also presume that we'll see in the next episode that Doc Bae gets her 'shopping date' with Seung Chan, otherwise why that whole slipping and falling scene in the beginning.
There was at least one laugh out loud moment or two... and trial kisses between an unexpected pair. Experimental, yet pretty hot!
Everyone, even Ji Ho is looking natural and quite adequate in their roles, except Sung Joon, who still looks constipated or like a petulant child who smelt something bad.
At least there's some movement with jealousy finally getting Soo Hyun to behave his real 'mental' age ie like 12 years old? This is getting a mite more interesting. :)
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32 BedeliaJane
February 7, 2016 at 6:50 AM
I've just caught ep 6. Was that a cameo by Shim Hyung Tak?
I love Lee Seung Joon's appearance too. Have been a fan of his since Nine. He also acted with Sung Joon in Discovery of Romance and Hyde, Jekyll, Me.
The actress playing Hye Rim's sis reminds me of Kim So Eun.
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33 Jon G.
February 7, 2016 at 7:55 AM
@nara
I mentioned that most (general) psychological research topics "affect everyone", like, for example, memory research, without anyone being too wary about it.
"issue" here in reference your "people are wary".
Not for "love", for one of the many psychological research topics that affects people.
You added dreams. Not sure why.
Yes, something to that effect. The cause of action is still not clear (whether the dreams are the cause or the effect of the "memory reorganisation process" is very much in discussion).
However, that's not what I was aiming at at all.
Your original argument was that "love" is very special to people because people are "wary" of "love".
Let me ask you a few questions here, to get back to the original topic:
By "people", do you mean the audience of this show?
Or potential test subjects for psychological research?
What is the result of this wariness and how does it change the quality of Soo-hyun's experiment, or its use in this show?
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34 skelly
February 7, 2016 at 2:35 PM
Here's what I had to say about this show on my tumblr:
I’m having a hard time with Madame Antoine. The jerky male lead is Sung Joon at his jerkiest - lying, manipulating, being superior and smirky and so totally unethical … I haven’t hated a “hero” this much since A Gentleman’s Dignity. He’s got to be one of the worst psychiatrists ever, and this latest episode, where he tells bald-faced lies to the woman he supposedly likes, goes completely stalker without an ounce of self-realization, self-reflection, or remorse, and stands coldly by while a man wails at his feet, sobbing curled in a fetal position in anguish. There is professional distance and clinical detachment and then there is cold-blooded misanthropy, and he is very much the latter. He has so many psychological problems I might wish him on my worst enemy, but certainly not on the fairly decent human being he is currently torturing with his attention.
Sorry, but this whole drama is so not romantic (bucketfuls of deceit all around) and so not funny. No, stalking a girl because you can’t admit you like her is not funny - not when you are a psychologist in his 30′s. And falling for a younger man is not funny when the woman is suffering from a terminal disease and is too lonely and lost to have anyone to share it with. Giving your child to another woman to raise is not funny. Child abuse is not funny. Unethical science experiments are not funny. Coming on to women just to see what happens is not funny. So there is no rom, there is no com, there’s just a whole bunch of cheap shots and 6 episodes in I’m out.
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35 kit
February 7, 2016 at 3:46 PM
I swore off this drama (publicly on this site as well), but for some reason watched up until Ep 6 that aired two days ago. And the last two episodes were so ... disturbing. Scarier because it was supposed to be cute/amusing. E.g. the young pretty boy wanting a drone because he wants to watch the female lead undress, then her younger sister liking him, and manipulating him so that she could kiss, and then make out with him. And this is even without talking about the whole science part of it.
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anna96
February 7, 2016 at 11:18 PM
Exactly ! And sung joon is always stalking han ye seul ! This drama is creepy
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36 klmeri
February 7, 2016 at 6:23 PM
I'd just like to add here that I enjoy this show because at times it makes me laugh and I am entertained without having to think too deeply about plot. Not that I don't like plot - I do! - but sometimes after a tough day, a person just wants simple entertaining. This show is that for me, like the Late Night Restaurant or Sweden Laundry. I will admit that I have gotten miffed at the lead heroine's ability to be easily misled by the men around her, but she is determined and observant enough (and paranoid enough) that inevitably I'm back to rooting for her to figure things out. I literally cheered at my scene when she made the connection that she must be in a love experiment (then later booed when what's-his-face convinced her otherwise by lying outright). I'm a fan of the actress in this, and I think she's doing a great job of playing a woman who is naturally smart, remarkably playful, and yet somewhat lonely, enough so that she enjoys the attention of her male admirers and isn't above having the wool pulled over her eyes.
Anyway, my point is - keep entertaining me, show!
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37 Adal
February 7, 2016 at 7:41 PM
Honestly? As much as I'm loving the lead actress, the plot is thin and the show is kind of dumb. It's good to pass the time, however, when nothing else is available to watch. It's a C grade drama at best.
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38 anna96
February 7, 2016 at 11:17 PM
I watched the 6th episode yesterday. At first the story was interesting but now it's getting repetitive , same stuff happens every episode : she finds out about the experiment, he lies about it, he falls for her even deeper, he denies it, she believes him, insert a psychology case, insert a ending twist and the episode is done. I might drop it at 7th episode...... The only interesting character is han ye seul but she's becoming boring too.
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39 pru22
February 8, 2016 at 1:41 AM
I'm going to get straight to the point. This so called drama stinks to HIGH HEAVEN! I tried to give it a chance and watched the first two episodes. But after that it was over...I just can't!!!
Thank goodness there is a site called Noonas over forks that recaps so I don't have waste anymore time looking at this bs.. I have read recaps up to episode six and I'm so glad I am no longer watching it or I would want to do violence on the assy male lead.
And I'm not too crazy about the female lead anymore either since it's beyond obvious she has no clue what is really going on and gets dumber in each passing episode.
I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who said the writers should have really made her psychic and took it from there. But I also can't stomach how easily she believes whatever comes out of the male leads mouth.
Especially when it so obvious he is lying. Plus they have no chemistry and the male lead is the human equivalent of watching paint dry. He is completely boring and there is no way I believe the hye rim would really be interested in him as a love interest.
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40 minathens
February 8, 2016 at 7:20 AM
The whole "experiment" device is completely stupid. Like really, not a shred of it makes sense or is even remotely plausible, and that's before you get to how it's so unethical that it borders on sociopathic. Even with that, and even though you sort of have to turn half your brain off to get around that, I'm still lowgrade enjoying it. I do hope the female lead character smartens up and starts giving them hell. I'm really busy right now, so I need a drama I can put off if I have to, so it's kind of perfect for me. And SJ kind of is a fencepost, but he's a weirdly cute fencepost, so whatever. I think it's that grinch smile.
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41 HM
February 8, 2016 at 1:06 PM
I don't know though the psychology part of the drama is badly written but truthfully Sungjoon's acting here is much more refreshing and less stiff than in High Society. One thing I'm curious about is that it captured my interest through all the six episodes so far though the writing's crappy.
Though this drama is lighter and have its bits and pieces of comedy in it rather than all the other drama at this time.
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growingbeautifully
February 9, 2016 at 5:30 AM
@ HM
"Though this drama is lighter and have its bits and pieces of comedy in it rather than all the other drama at this time." - One More Happy Ending, which is airing now, is also light and funny. :)
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42 mylo
February 8, 2016 at 2:09 PM
i must be the only one who is enjoying the drama then.And i don't think there is any problem with sung joons acting, his character is problematic but not the actor.Why do i get the feeling that ppl are transferring their hate of the character on to the actor,
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43 Val
February 9, 2016 at 12:18 AM
I was very much intrigued by the premise and decided to give it a shot. Besides, HYS and SJ are ridiculous attractive. But, I couldn't bring myself to watch the rest of the drama after just 5 minutes. Look I get it. Kdramas are incredibly cliched and yes, unrealistic. Some are outright ridiculous. It might be my background in neuroscience but I just couldn't continue watching as soon as the premise was shown. I see love in biological and chemical terms but even I cringed in disbelief at the extreme the drama went to. The study is just so incredibly unethical and frankly, disturbing because it caters to a very alienating view that some men truly see women in.
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44 cinnamimi
February 10, 2016 at 8:52 AM
I neither love nor hate this drama. It's just... ugh, painfully indescribable. I kind of had an expectation on this show before being aired, but now it turns out to be just a 'filler' in drama list. Unfortunately, I don't have a list :(, so I 'have to' keep watching it for the sake of its genre: rom-com.
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45 V
February 12, 2016 at 8:54 AM
Watched episode 7 raw and wanted to know if Hye Rim finally figured everything out and confronted him with all the facts (that he couldn't manipulate)? Seems like she told him she figured out that the experiment did happen but that he did end up liking her but she wants him to admit it. Is that why he kisses her? Also, would like to know why he's ripping up those papers in the preview. Is that her experiment contract or her resignation letter? And what does the preview imply is the reason Soo Hyun says her loves her?
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vongole
February 14, 2016 at 1:10 AM
1. She did confront him (again!) but he manages to sort of lie his way out again.
2. Not sure about the logic of the kiss at that particular point of time! But yeah, it relates to him liking her. (When he types up his research notes, he is not sure which aspect of him behaved that way - the psychologist, male subject A, or the human being him... or so I seem to remember anyway)
3. He is apparently ripping up the experiment-related stuff and deletes stuff from the computer as well, but then we find out in the preview for episode 9 that he has a a secret safe where he is hiding the experiment documents.
4. He does see that he loves her at the end of episode 8. It seems to be spontaneous (but again we see in the preview for epi 9 that he is teasing the other two 'male subjects' that he is leading...)
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vongole
February 14, 2016 at 1:12 AM
more on point 4: he says he loves her after realizing that she'd been trying hard to cheer him up (when he's in a funk post-remembering his traumatic childhood experience at the amusement park.)
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46 Fuujin
February 12, 2016 at 8:40 PM
Oh my God, this show is so horrible. Despite its many flaws, it was tolerable up to now. But in episode 7, it sank to new depths in terms of writing (both the story arc and the dialogue), directing, and even acting.
But really the writing is the worst. Nothing about this show ever made any sense, but I swear somehow the writer(s) managed to pack more nonsense into this episode than ever before.
There is too much to list. But two things stand out:
1) The car wash scene: by far the stupidest, most contrived thing I've ever seen, starting with the empty tank of gas and ending with an apology given because the shrink felt as if his life was in danger as he sat in the car wash because the water drops evoked that life-threatening drippy ice-cream cone from his childhood. For real???
2) the case of the week is a multiple-personality sufferer who they happened to meet at a magic show? Is this supposed to be meta?? A reference to SJ's turn as a D.I.D. specialist in Hyde, Jeckyll, and Me? That show wasn't good and bombed in the ratings, so maybe it's better left forgotten, but if not then at least gives us a wink and a nod. Couldn't they at least have picked up D.I.D. Lady at the circus and named her Robyn???
Anyway I watched HJ&M to the bitter end for one reason only: Hyundai Bin. And Sung Joon ain't no Hyundai Bin. I might attempt to watch the next episode, but it feels like m done here.
@V
The episode is subbed and up on Dramafever. I can tell you that she learned about the experiment and confronted him. I think he admitted it, but really he just said: "I like you." As for the rest of your questions, I can't possibly answer b/c I understand nothing about this show.
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Fuujin
February 12, 2016 at 8:44 PM
Eek! Typos! Sorry, folks.
*give* us a wink and a nod & *Hyun* Bin (ha ha, very funny, autocorrect!).
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Fuujin
February 12, 2016 at 9:13 PM
Sorry, one final note: Something is really wrong when the episode featuring the things we've all been waiting for--Hye Rim's (second) discovery of this silly "experiment" plus (tiny) doses of female solidarity and professional ethics coming from Ajumma shrink--still manages outdo itself in awfulness.
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alua
February 14, 2016 at 2:33 AM
I didn't even make it to the half-way mark of ep. 7 (why did I even try?). The drama makes no sense at all. Like none, zilch, zero, nada.
Hyerim is just dumb. Why does she even bother engaging with Soo-hyun, or the academic guy when he goes on the offensive in the café? Does she have any brain cells?
Soo Hyun is utterly uncompelling as an academic/researcher with a PhD – he's more like an undergrad freshman doing work in a required class that he doesn't like and have any knowledge of.
And the mechanical engineering guy? He is no academic either, because even if he's from the natural science who should instantly know that SH's experiment is completely and utterly flawed.
Hyerim's sister is using the rubik cube guy. The rubik cube guy's portrayal, meanwhile, is contradictory. He's shown socially and romantically inept to the point that he doesn't even understand that what kissing is (different kinds of kisses, and when they are appropriate), yet Soo Hyun made him a participant in the experiment. How can he play a valid role in the experiment if he doesn't know ANYTHING romancing a person?
And the older woman chasing Seung Chan.... it's creepy and, from Seung-chan's pov, makes no sense. He wants to hang with her because he has no family and friends? He's a young and completely normal guy, why does he not befriend people of his age. Yeah, his brother is an ass, but there are plenty of other people that I'm sure would be friends with him (without any selfish motivations). Nothing against age gaps in friendships (I have friends that are 10 years older or 12 years younger), but the setup of this relationship is just bizarre.
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Fuujin
February 14, 2016 at 5:03 PM
@alua
Great points...I agree entirely. There are so many wrong and troubling things going on in this show that it's actually hard so catch them all. So I thank you for pointing out how utterly absurd it is that Soo Hyun would have made the grad student a participant in the "experiment," given that he is so inexperience and clueless that he doesn't know about kissing. This had not occurred to me at all, but you are so right.
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47 anna96
February 12, 2016 at 11:29 PM
I eventually watched episode 7 and i'm dropping it. The way the supporting characters are forcing love at each other (except seung chan) is disgusting, that girl using the nerd guy and kissing him, the nerdy guy tagging along with female lead just to peak at her naked (wtf?) , ahjumma pushing herself on seung chan.... The male lead's acting is getting boring and frustrating by each episode he has the same expression even when he's being honest ????. Goodbye madame antoine let's never meet again ?
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48 Kano
February 13, 2016 at 5:36 AM
I adore this drama! While I find the supporting cast's love lines slightly cringe-worthy (although I secretly want the nerd/sis to have their HEA), I honestly don't find it to be more contrived than all the other korean rom-coms out there. Not to mention that the heroine's wardrobe looks fabulous in the most avant-garde, whimsical way.
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maddragonqueen
February 14, 2016 at 7:36 AM
Her wardrobe IS fabulous. This show has kinda disappointed me, but it doesn't really matter because very single episode I get distracted from the story and spend half my time thinking "Look at that skirt! Oh mu gosh I love that sweater! What a perfect outfit!" Etc. etc. etc. I remember there was one scene I literally paused and took a screen cap to send to my friend with the caption "those tights tho."
Because for real. I want all her clothes.
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49 mutantreptile
February 13, 2016 at 4:35 PM
You can tell how seriously I've been taking this drama by how loud I shouted at Go Hye Rim to "DON'T DROP THE CHURROS!" as she rushed to comfort Soo Hyun at the amusement park.
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50 se0l11
March 2, 2016 at 6:59 AM
To anyone who will watch this...
You'll need a psychotherapy or treatment or whatsoever during or after watching every episode...
This drama gave me doubts about love now.. argh!!
xD
@.@
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