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Open Thread #460

Happy Friday everyone!

Here is your Open Thread, which is here for you to chat about anything you want, whether it be drama-related or not. Nothing’s off-topic here! Spoilers may be rife, so proceed accordingly.

 
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It annoys me that K Dramas are so heavily centered around relationships. It cuts down on the amazing stories that could be told. I think DOTS would have been stronger if it had been like a 24 style political thriller not Doctors and Soldiers Dating in an Exotic Land but that's just Korean culture - and the target audience seems to like it. Unless viewers start to reward different kinds of works it'll be hard to see dramas that don't have romance at its core.

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True. I wish that other kinds of relationships would be portrayed as being equally important in media. I absolutely hate when romantic relationships are presented as being the ultimate form of love. Love has many forms and none are less powerful than the other. They are just different.

The worst is the lack of strong long lasting friendships between a man and a woman that never toes the line of romance and/or sex ("Man and Woman can't be friend" is my least favourtie line). I have such a hard time thinking of examples of purely platonic friendships between people of opposite gender (mostly between heterosexual individuals) in the media. Friendship is so important to me. I have a hard time relating to character's that value romance over it. ("We are friends" "But I want more!" sigh-.- )

When will there be a character that is asexual (or demi-sexual) but that is not an alien or a socially awkward genius who needs to be "cured". I understand the obsession with sex but I cannot relate to it at all because it is such a small part of my reality. I am tired of feeling abnormal because of all this. I am glad that I am not alone :)

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So is there a drama with asexual characters? I am really interested cause I haven't seen any dramas dealing with this kind of thing except for Its Ok Its love

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The male and female friendship that was platonic is between hantai and Najung in reply 1994 but definitely kdramas lack these friendships

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why don't you start to watch jdorama? there are tons of jdorama which doesn't revolve around romance, zero romance or even making fun of relationship (as in nothing is wrong in being single)

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Agree! If you're looking for a slice of life kind of drama then Jdrama is perfect. It has a different format from Kdrama so you might need some time to get used to it. Also, you only watch 8-11 episodes so that's the upside!

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I agree that jdramas are much better in offering stories without any romance whereas in kdramas it's like you're sometimes force-fed romance when zero is needed (or zero would even improve the story massively!).

But I'm not sure I can entirely agree with this observation:

<as in nothing is wrong in being single

because when it comes to romance dramas specifically, including the ones that are supposed to show empowered single women, somehow they always end up married in the end. At least there were several I watched where the message supposedly was "There's nothing wrong with being single", yet the drama's conclusion seemed to totally contradict this. Prime example: Kekkon Shinai (Wonderful Single Life) where for some reason (SPOILER) they had to pair up everyone.

I mean, there might be exceptions, but generally speaking I still feel that even jdramas haven't quite reached that point of "nothing wrong with being single" yet.

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Kekkon Shinai's ending was mehhh. This also reminds me of another Amami Yuki drama, Around 40, where the single is good message was pushed through but in a rather awkward way that didn't quite work.

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Yes... "Around 40". Or "He Who Can't Get Married". Various dramas about single people, who are supposedly fine with being single but somehow that message doesn't get across, because it's still presented as that they're losing out somehow, will regret it or will get back together with the person because they'll wait for each other for multiple (!) years.

The only time I got that message with "single is perfectly okay" is actually in a kdrama, with Kim Bu-Gi, one of the side characters in "Still, Marry Me".

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Around 40 is meh, but it still has the message and I somehow get it. I do like it better than Kekkon Shinai. I kinda get (subtle) empowering single women (or women in general) vibe from Hataraki Man though.
I think Kekkon Dekinai Otoko is kinda similar with Kazoku no Katachi in which they are about people who're actually fine to live alone but it's not bad or even better if they meet someone. I also get similar vibe from Saigo Kara.

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in Over 40, doesn't she choose to pursue her own career? or may be I remember it wrong since it was long time ago so I don't really remember the story (only remember that Fujiki is there).

agree that Kekkon Shinai is bad. I was sold on the first eps, want to see her (Amami Yuki char) to show the world that she can raise up again despite being single (seriously, what's with her demotion in the first place, that's so discriminating). but then the plot start to crumble and I flip the table by the last eps.

yes even in jdorama (romance genre), they encouraging ppl to have relationship, marry, and have children. I guess it has something to do with decreasing birth rate in japan.
but in other genre, they often show character who is single, capable, and don't really care about dating or relationship and still feel happy with that.

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@yukari,
She does choose her career in the end, but I think it was done rather awkwardly and I didn't like it. Yes, I only remember Fujiki in that drama, haha.

I don't know if the trend is getting worse, but a lot of the recent rom-coms featuring older single women have been rather unpleasant, implying from the get-go that something must be wrong with them if they're still single after all this while and so obviously need a man to rescue them. Bah.

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I haven't seen the drama version but from memory Gou Gou the Cat didn't really stress the romance. I have yet to watch Alice's Thorn but not really expecting a romance there. They also have dramas like Second Movement and Gohostwriter, nothing flash but not a romance either.

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Oh @moonlight, first let me give you a hug as some one who is in a semi drama slump as well. I know how you feel.

I think there are kdramas which don't focus on the boy-girl relationship side of things, though I will agree with you that they aren't the norm. I actually think that Kdramas fare much better than say US TV shows in terms of sexuality and it's attitude towards sex. And I do feel that the fact that Kdramas focus on the relationship, rather than the sex to be why I prefer to watch them in the first place. But that is my non american biased point of view ;)

I went to an all girl school till I was 16 and I LOVED how uncomplicated my close group of girl friends were, no boys (definitely no sex talk!) at all, and it was undoubtedly the best time of my life. So I feel you when you wish Age of Youth was less about the boys/sex, even thought I just started watching it and am quite enjoying it.

Have you seen Kdramas Liar Game, TEN, Signal? Jdrama 99.9 Keiji Senmon Bengoshi? I haven't watched many dramas but just off the top of my head those are the ones without much or any romance at all. Hope this helps you out of your slump!

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Misaeng, PU38, Punch also have no romance in it.
IRY also has hardly any.

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I was also going to mention PU38. When a great show that focuses on the love of family, whether blood-related or found family its really special. Also, School 2013 is a great drama with no romance. And it features a developing relationship between and man and woman that has nothing to do with romance and everything to do with professional respect.

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You can add Bad Guys and Vampire Prosecutor to that list.

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Thanks for the recs, everyone.

There are loads of kdramas with no romance aspect. You only need kdrama-addict friends to help you find them. :D

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Also, "Joseon X-Files."

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I do understand the preference about less sex talk etc I'm with you there. I'm a bit of an Eun Jae so it goes over my head anyways and that's not what draws me to the show.
It's their friendship and flaws that I can relate to.

The show is not about high school age kids and it's on a restricted channel. I think they are touching on some real issues here that is sex related, like sexual harassment etc.

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@Moonlight I might be called prudish but the first and foremost reason for me coming to kdramas was to avoid hollywood forever. I got absolutely disgusted and sick with the current trend of showing obscene/vulgar/illegitimate relationships, mental filth is the worst to get over with. I can say names but I won't lol,just to save you guys off the hook. K-dramas,a little earlier times were full of romance,sweet and chocolaty, but this was the first reason I got to kdramas. The culture and how people interact in those societies were also one attraction point yes. May be boys over flowers or Princess hours were full of nonsensical,over the top tropes,but I liked those just because they showed romances of the youth for what it is.
But these days a good wife got a remake,and there was explicit scenes from the husband's affairs,and there were sounds that was awkward, uncomfortable to watch on screen, and I wondered if the drama was necessary. If anyone wants to see that drama they can just go over the american version,and be satisfied with it. The problem is american dramas/movies are experimenting a lot,and now there is no limit, kind of. End of the day I don't want to see a sci-fi,or an alien,or a girl with seven doppelgangers going undercover or running for her (seven) lives forever, or a man going loony having conversation with a call service operation voice..and even going to extent of trying to spending his life with her, really. I'm tired of the coolness. Cool is the new boring I think.. So I wish kdramas do not take resort of these excessive topics to make us audience happy. We want to watch kdramas for what it is...nothing more,nothing less.
On side note I do love age of youth,but I agree with the topic of sex being mentioned a lot. There are a looot more that gets covered in the girl talks, unfortunately boys take the center stage at dramas or movies like age of youth or sisterhood of travelling pants, but at least age of youth is also about the ghosts, or unfortunate sickness, or the pain of being an introvert. I absolutely loved the first episode and the timid girl could actually be the main lead of this drama if her story continued. She was the most innocent one out of all five and does not just think about kisses or hugs all the time it seems. But anyway, every other episodes also have a headline and the story circles around that, the concept is a lot fresh and unique that way.I would say age of youth is way better than a UF or DOTS or doctors. There are lots of side stories to the girls and the scenes are not just fillers.

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I also hope Kdrama can still manage to save their innocentness and their melodrama,

It's one of genre I can't find in another type of drama, there is some overlap with J-drama and C/T drama, but I feel like Kdrama gives another style for its,
I think it's the emphasise on the 1st love that really gets me,
the innocent feeling and the freshness of loving someone without complicated logic or just about the needs,

I am planning to re-watch You are the apple of my eye this weekend,

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You do know that there is a difference between shows on the big 3s (SBS,MBC,KBS) and cable right?

Both AOY and Good Wife are shown on cable for a reason. It may be geared towards a more mature audience and some of it's content can not be shown on the free public channels.

Maybe you should avoid cable shows if you prefer Boys Over Flowers type of romance etc. You can't expect a chaste and innocent if you decide to flip the channel to HBO right?

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Lol @kiara I don't really like BOF to be exact, I was meaning to say I've seen a lot of dramas where it's more focused on boys and girls, their journey,bickering,push and pulls,misunderstandings and reconciliation, like if you've seen kim rae won's 'cat on the roof' or lee min ho's personal taste, or park shin hye's 'flower boy next door', or lee min ki's 'really really like you', or a thank you- biscuit teacher star candy - master's sun etc etc.The original charm of boy meets girl or vice versa and their story that follows, are more endearing, and the effect is long lasting than the cute and pretty in picture dramas these days.

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I didn't say you liked BOF I just said that "type" of shows. Maybe I failed at rephrasing your comment :(.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with liking BOF. It's not my type of shows "now" but I watched the whole dang show for some reason. I can't say I didn't get any enjoyment out of it.

I'm so over high school dramas. I'm enjoying the college setting and yes they could tone down the sex talk/references. Sometimes it's funny and sometimes it's so not.

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I feel like the trouble with some of those dramas is that the things people do in them that seemed charming or swoonworthy to my younger self, are now completely off-putting to me as an older adult.

Like I cannot go through Personal Taste without a mental 'ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!' at the whole 'gay' theme, or at the heroine offering to act as a beard while we're expected to see that as her dong him a solid. I love the hell out of MiSa even now but it has disturbing and problematic portrayals of adopted children and adoption - something that would never fly today. Boys Over Flowers (and the original) have issues with sexual assault....and the list goes on.

But there are dramas that actively eschew those tropes, and they're better for it - School 2013 holds up well even today, Heard It Through the Grapevine deserves to go down in classic kdrama canon, Misaeng is an all-time great - there are SO many stories to be told that aren't centred on romance.

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Honestly, I'm not a big fan of oversexualisation either and my favourite dramas are those with little to no romance - but I'd still take some consensual implied sex between consenting adults, way, WAY ahead of the repeated threats of sexual assault in Boys Over Flowers and the like.

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KDrama is all about love, it seems tiresome to watch it all week, that's why I also watch Jdrama in the middle
this problem recently happens to me in another field,
I want to read novel about something but it seems like all novel that is famous always have love stories painted in the front,
I'd like to read some good stories that didn't focus on love,
maybe on the journey with a good small portion of love stories is okay
so can I get some recommendation here?
the last novel-like books I read is a light novel
- My teens romantic comedy SNAFU-
a novel about teens and their school life which is fun, funny and has very little romance despite has "romantic"word as the title

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@sancheezy
If you like fantasy novels, you can try Terry Pratchett- his Discworld series. they are funny and witty (very tongue in cheek and dry humour) and without an romantic focus.

My favourites are Fifth Elephant; Time; Going Postal...

As you can see Im a huge fan. haha.

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thank you,
is it a series or stand alone books?
I just need to prepare my time for it,
I've heard about Terry Pratchett's The Colour of Magic tv show years back,
sorry T.T
I am not really a novel reader, to be precise I often didn't finish a book when I get tired of the plot and many good book's Movie adaptations already out in the cinema before I can read any of them,
I am more of manga-manhwa-webtoon reader but lately, I want to read some book

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They can be read as a stand alone, but they are all characters part of the universe that is called Discworld. Each book focuses on a different character (or group of characters) in Discworld.

http://www.terrypratchettbooks.com/characters/

This explains the different characters and which books they are featured in ;)

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I introduced Oregairu to people on soompi just a week ago. It's one of my favoruites. Moonlight is right. There is just too much emphasis on boys in Age of Youth. I said this in episode recaps too.

People saying Kdramas show innocence and purity? I don't think kdramas can withstand J-doramas at all.

If you want some novel then join some book review platforms and if you want to target specific tags and genre there exist many Books Databases. Short Cut would be directly visiting any e-commerce platform and there you can find 1000's of results which suit your nature.

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I knew I recognized Terry Pratchett's name! He and Neil Gaiman wrote "Good Omens", one of my favorite books. I also looooove Douglas Adams's works. The sarcasm drips off the page, what fun!

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I totally missed OT today (work) and so I was just going to read it today and not comment--but then I saw Terry Pratchett's name. Just popping in to say I love him! Hello again, Pratchett fans!

My favorites:
The Fifth Elephant (Guards! Guards! is book #1)
Going Postal
Unseen Academicals
Mort

Non-discworld:
Dodger

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michykdrama ~

Yay for Terry Pratchett. Some stories have been adapted for screen.

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@Sancheezy
What about The Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini? Also, all his other books ;P

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+1

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Only one that I can think of right now is 'The Lover's Dictionary' by David Levithan. It's a fiction/non fiction based on two people's experience in their relationship.I found it quite good and the concept is unique. Though you said your priority was not on love, but the different pov from each side made it an interesting read lol.

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@Sancheezy - I assume you've read classic novels like Anne of Green Gables? Now that's a great example of a girls' novel that pays very little attention to romance, and is instead about the life and (mis)adventures of the heroine between the ages of 11 and 16 :)

Harry Potter is one of the best-known school series of our time and it also has relatively little romance, and that too only in the last couple of books - it focuses more on life-threatening adventures, friendship and family than anything else.

Maybe you've read them already but it's good to be reminded that there are novels out there that are not about romance. They're also quite light and easy to read.

Terry Pratchett's books are really, really funny. If you're interested in books about a younger heroine you should try The Wee Free Men - no romance at all, and it's all about a girl setting out to rescue her baby brother with the help of small blue men who like to drink, fight and steal things.

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@Sancheezy--What about the love between two girl best friends?? I just finished reading book 2 of the Neopolitan Series by Elena Ferrante, and now am on book 3. The first novel is called, "My Brilliant Friend," and while it DOES have love between men and women in it, the central relationship focuses on the friendship between two women from their early early years onwards. It really is the best thing I've read in the longest time. And while the whole story spans 4 novels, it is unbelievably quick reading.

Another more light-hearted book to pick up is Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere." It might not be his best novel (cos, arguably, he's written better), but it's very very readable, and has no romance whatsoever. Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman also co-wrote a hilarious book called, "Good Omens," that is chock-full of literary allusions and pokes fun at lots of things in life. I've read that one at least 3 times.

I've heard great things about "The Rosie Project," but I don't know what it's about.

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Shameless self promotion. If you click on my name you will get to my romance novel I wrote for my daughter when she was a jr. in high school and reading "twilight." As her mom, I felt like I should read it so I could see what the attraction was--and I couldn't get past three chapters, (and I apologize to any and all twilight lovers.) I told her, "if a boy ever says, 'please tell your dad where we're going because I'm afraid of what I might do if he doesn't know where we are' and you DON'T tell your dad--you're a fool." So, any how. This is my teen romance novelette. And if you read my toons, you know it's not to be taken too seriously.

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Most of my Reading Time lately has become Drama Time. So I've been doing my reading via audio books while driving or doing mindless tasks. Scrolling through my Audible account, here are some books I have enjoyed recently that are not romances:

The Winter People by Jennifer McMahon. Really creepy story about grief and the bad things that can happen when you bring the dead back to life.

The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern. Real magicians competing against the backdrop of the most fabulous circus, told with beautiful prose.

To Kill a Mockingbird Bird by Harper Lee. Classic about a precocious little girl going up in the American south in the 1930s. And her awesome dad.

American Gods by Neil Gaiman. All of the gods of the old world came to America with the immigrants who believed in them, but now are losing their power as people no longer believe. Not as innocent as the other recs.

Bricking It by Nick Spalding. Trials and tribulations restoring an old Victorian farmhouse.

Book Scavenger by Jennifer Chambliss Bergman. Middleschool kids solving book mysteries. Lots of fun.

Don't know if any of those would be your cup of tea, but I enjoyed all of them enough to recommend. Happy hunting!

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@Amilia--American Gods is brilliant, don't you think?

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It really is. I am hoping they do it justice in the new TV show. The trailers look good, so fingers crossed!

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@Sancheezy, gonna throw a random gem here (if you're into post-apocalyptic stuff)

Wool by Hugh Howley

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13453029-wool-omnibus

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Some books about friendship with little to no romance:

Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Patterson
The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton
Code Name Verity by Elizabeth Wein

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Agreed! Especially female friendship ususally gets the very short end of the stick. Although there are exceptions - but yes, usually in dramas where the main relationship is a m/f romance.

In The Good Wife, though, I actually don't see sex / romance as central at all - the flirt with her old flame is merely another way for Hye-kyung to distance herself from her husband in my eyes. She even tells the guy outright that she isn't interested in dropping everything for love, and that she has other priorities and concerns.

Still, yes, you're right that the theme is definitely expected and necessary, and the drama likely wouldn't have been made without it.

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Ode to Joy which is basically the Chinese version of Age of Youth is less sex orientated. It's a flawed drama in many ways and I think Western viewers would have difficulty stomaching the sexist attitudes presented on the show. But I actually related to the the girls' friendship, aspirations and struggles with career a lot more than with Age of Youth.

Something I've noticed since I've started watching modern Chinese dramas, is that there's a huge emphasis on the heroine's work progression. Like the general qualifier for being a leading lady in kdramas is having a heart of gold- in chinese dramas it's that she's a hardworker. I was watching a drama and they pulled the 'Oh I'm not good enough for you compared to your other sophisticated love interest' trope, and the solution was for the main actress to get her CPA certification. I'm like err, I'm pretty sure love doesn't work that way, but okay.

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I'm not overwhelmingly impressed with most modern Chinese Dramas. I've watched several of them now and the only ones I really enjoyed were My Amazing Boyfriend and of course Love Me if You Dare. The rest I have ended up fast forwarding through. They really seem to have a formula that goes beyond even the most stereotypical Korean Drama (The Taiwanese ones seem to be a hybrid of the two).

Typically, the second male lead is a long term friend of the female lead that has never gotten things on a romantic track with her, but wants to. He's right there when the heroine loses faith in the hero, ready to drive a further wedge between them "for her own good" because he "loves" her so much.

Typically there is a younger step-sister or family friend of the male lead who is in love with him, only he sees her as a little sister or friend. She's all sweet and innocent on the outside but a wicked schemer on the inside.

The heroine also typically has a more sophisticated best friend who is a bit of a loose woman.

The "big separation" between hero and heroine seems to typically take much longer to resolve in a Chinese drama (and sometimes this is where the heroine gets real serious about becoming successful in her career). I don't think Korean audiences would have the patience to endure 4-6 (or more) episodes of separations.

For some reason, the producers of the Chinese shows like to show shots of their characters talking in the beginning and ending credits (of course, the viewer doesn't hear what they are saying because the theme music is running).

And since the shows are pre-filmed those opening/closing montages use scenes from all through the show, and tend to give away a lot of little plot spoilers, if you're really looking closely.

One thing that really has surprised me, is just how materialistic these shows are. I'm not just talking product placement, but the whole idea of being wealthy or becoming wealthy. A little like Dynasty was wish-fulfillment fantasy for Americans in the 1980s. My jaw dropped during a scene in "My Amazing Boyfriend" where the female lead teases her best friend because her BF's boyfriend is a "wicked Capitalist" - she's actually teasing her friend and fishing for some investing tips.

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@LizJ--Great observations, these! I also noticed that the heroine usually has a very sophisticated best friend...and this isn't confined to C-dramas only, but T-dramas, J-dramas, and K-dramas all have this "trope" (?).

I wrote a little earlier that I've been reading a novel about best friends by Elena Ferrante, and the interesting thing is that the pseudo-rivalry between the two main characters involves both girls being slightly envious of each other, influencing each other's decisions, even "bettering" themselves as a result of their mutual envy..

And yet the heroines in most Asian dramas don't seem to be able to learn anything from their sophisticated best-friend counterparts...such as, dressing better (or more similarly to their best friend), or learning to be less vulnerable/subject to manipulation, etc. But really...aren't friends, when looked at from afar, more homogenous-looking, in general? Sophisticated, materialistic, brand-donning girls tend to hang out with one another, while more scholarly, nerdier girls hang with each other, and the religious/do-good/humanitarian ones with a cause hang with each other...yet in drama-land the pairings sometimes reflect this, but more often don't. UNLESS the drama shows bullying in school, where the girl gangs and boy gangs consist of like-minded, like-looking members. But by the time they reach adulthood, it's like apart from the rich wives who have their little exclusive bitchy club, the unmarried single women who are still lost (in the love game) will suddenly have friends who are their complete opposite: smart, sassy, slick women who don't appear to have any similarities with the heroines.

A'way, of course there are exceptions to the above.. I'm just relating my general impression of what the majority of shows seem to portray.

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I'm more of a historical/costume Chinese drama fan, so I haven't seen that many modern Chinese dramas. Even with my limited exposure, I agree with you that many modern Chinese dramas are very formulaic, especially with romance, family, or revenge dramas. I'm not trying to accuse anyone, but I feel that modern Chinese dramas really tried to milk and intensify the typical romance formula after seeing how successful and popular it is in Korean dramas. As I recall, modern Chinese dramas back then were less romance focused and instead more family focused.

If you're interested in modern Chinese dramas that are less formulaic, I actually recommend trying modern Chinese web dramas. Similar to Korean cable dramas, I think that Chinese web dramas are more willing to explore different subjects and approach things differently than regular Chinese television dramas. This is probably because censorship for web dramas are not as strict, and production companies don't have to worry about pleasing the majority of viewers for ratings. Also, many of the Chinese Web dramas nowadays have very high production values, with some I feel even surpassing those of regular TV dramas. However, I must say most of these qualities belong to non-romance themed dramas, and there may be a certain level of cheesiness with non-serious dramas. Nonetheless, I think many Chinese web dramas (both modern and historical) are very entertaining, and I do suggest you to try them as something different.

Lastly, I actually really love the opening and ending sequences to Chinese dramas. Seeing little snippets and potential spoilers actually makes me a little more curious and want to continue watching a drama.....or maybe skip to the parts that are interesting for a drama that I don't want to continue lol.

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Correct me if I am wrong but it always seemed to me that those long running K-dramas with high ratings that DB etc never cover are more to do with family stuff. K-movies aren't always about romance either. The shows that get covered for international auds are focussed on romance though and tbh I think audiences watch for the romance. Often when I read comments here it is as if other aspects of a show are lost in the huge focus on the main romance and the kissing. For K-dramas there is also a huge focus on the male actors at the expense of female actors.

The problem of making a show aimed at women that does not focus on romance is worldwide. Not just Korea. Even if a book for e.g. does not have romance its TV show version will. A huge part of this is because of audiences, I am sure writers are willing to be bolder but every focus group must be why don't you add romance! But I agree I wish shows weren't just about that. And also agree that the best bet is j-doramas since they are very varied in content and have subtle characterization.

I also get surprised at the too much sex comments. I work as a lawyer and the adult world is nowhere near the sanitised romances of dramas!!! If you are going for a realistic show aimed at a mature audience you have to have the sex. I admire actresses like JDY who are able to present a sexual woman in a frank manner without it ever being prurient. Or for that matter actors who can do it so that it is part of a character and not just sleaze.

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also true! the movies arent always romance centered or it is presented through something very unusual feelings transmitted to inanimate objects. and I guess mostly women watch dramas in Korea and elsewhere... but that doesnt mean all women like romance ( I seemed to have asked alsmost the same question, in that how have the drama preferences changed and what we used to like vs what we like now. Romance can be there but I prefer a mission, a goal, something that is genuinly important, not just whether we can publish another edition of a magazine

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@redfox yes I think it is changing and women want different things. Even if its not a mission or a goal the ordinary lives of women are no longer necessarily about finding a man. And I share your bewilderment at W having its heroine draw a......man?!

I don't mind romances per se. But I think the genre has just got old and predictable even though women seem to like it.

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I think it's because her dad is a thriller manhwa artist. So she's exposed to male characters more.

All my classmates from elementary school who like to draw also started out by copying their favorite anime. So it's full of Dragonball Z, Ghost Fighter, etc. And when we got to high school, they were drawing the cool guys from the manga they're reading (and watching). Sadly, there is not a lot of heroines drawn as we grew up. I guess that's also because there aren't a lot of "cool" heroines in manga-land.

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mary, I don't think it was drawing a man per se but that is seemed to follow watching a female shooter on TV!

@juniper agree, earlier people would get into K-drama and be open to all genres but now it is the latest hit/actor and associated works.

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@Karuna, but in earlier episodes when her parents were fighting, she was hiding by the bookshelves, drawing a guy with a gun. :D So Chul might've been a work in progress and she's been updating his stats to match her other idols in life.

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I see mary! I missed that.

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Yes, trendies are so over represented in international fandom that it's actually sad. It's gotten to the point where casual fans will probably never discover classics of other genres, shows like Resurrection, for example.

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Brilliant comment ,thank you so much for this insightful observation ,I'm in my late 20s and I clearly remember being very frustrated with this issue in my teens and early 20s . Not only Korean entertainment but also western entertain has perpetuated this idea that all young people( in their teens and twenties) are obsessed with sex and romance.

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I agree and raise a hand in solidarity, Moonlight. I try hard not to be too prudish in my comments. I realize what I think is too blatant and not for me may be just what others enjoy. But there seems to be a dividing line between those of us who were drawn to K-Dramas because they were so much more innocent than Hollywood TV--and those of us who want K-Dramas to "get with the times! How can a 35 year old woman be a virgin? It's inconceivable!"
I agree with (sorry, I don't remember who it was) who said that you can always change the channel--and that cable is usually where more avant garde shows are aired.
I quit watching "the second time" because there seemed to be too much sex talk in the first episodes. But if you like it, I'm glad for you. (We, of differing opinions can co-exist here on dramabeans, right? Right?)

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it is true and I have also complained about the lack of other forms of existence and the greatness of solitude. being alone (with your brain) has given us many authors, scientific discoveries and ideas... next to psychopaths and serial killers. but those are necessary too.
watch Squad 38! the romance is pushed way to the background, no one pines obsessively after a guy, everyone has their own life and goals and generally it is about trust and the will to do a good thing in life and just make a difference. it is so perfect without romance.

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This is such an interesting topic because I've never thought about kdramas like that, meaning that with their strong emphasis on romance (in most of them) they convey a message to the audience that life without romance/partner is incomplete.

I agree that such media representations are harmful and that they don't begin and end only with kdrama, they're all over Hollywood, Bollywood etc. Heck, I've had my fair share of insecurities because of the social expectation to hook up: my mom wanted/s me to marry while some of my friends expected me to lead a fabulous single life. I found the latter even more troublesome, because it was kind of a double-edged sword: it was okay to be single, but I felt oddly pressured to be sexually active. I discovered only recently how much it affected my self-esteem which is funny, because I really really thought I didn't care. Talk about being in denial:)

As a genre, romance has romance and how much it has sexual content varies on where it's broadcast. Cable kdramas tend to be more explicit and I guess this is something we've all come to expect. The problem lies with dramas that are of mixed genre and Age of Youth is a great example of it. I noticed on the recaps' comment sections how some people found some character's actions uncomfortable while for others it seemed slice of life and thus refreshing.

As "slice of life" means different things to different people, it's not a great argument in of itself, but I found the divide between different opinions stronger precisely because the show's overall feel is "slice of life": the heroines aren't your typical unrealistic Candys but college girls. Most of the stuff that happens on screen is very low-key and everyday - beanies can relate to a whole lot of it, which is why, I think, the criticism hits closer to home whatever side you're on.

I actually agree with the thought that whenever sisterhood is depicted, it would be nice if the talk wouldn't revolve only around boys and relationships, I do think so, but when it comes to kdramas I turn a blind eye to it (!), because this is pretty much the only reason why I watch kdramas - the romance. They have a certain knack for it, which I enjoy, so I simply don't see the obvious flaws in AoY as I like it as a chick flick (+ alfa, heh).

Still, I understand the frustration: sex and boys are hardly only things in the minds of girls in their twenties and a more varied representations are definitely welcome. I think we have enough room:)

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Yea, they do talk about sex rather a lot. And I agree that not all young people focus on that.

And I don't think the way they talk about it is excessive. To my knowledge, only Ji Won is rather obsessed about getting a boyfriend, and getting laid. The others take a different approach. Eun Jae, of course, sees everything about a relationship is new. Senior Yoon is rather busy with work, study and trying to ignore her mom's debt (and wanting her brother dies already). Ye Eun is, well -- she's also probably obsessed about the idea of having an ideal relationship. We don't know much about her character arc beside this. I wish the show can give her something (it's episode 7 already). The other girl (I can't remember her name) played by Hwayoung is not obsessed about sex, but uses it.

I rather see the talk on sex as a way of saying that it's okay if you (a girl like Ji Won and the rest of the casts) talk about sex or if you want it. It is not abnormal if a girl wants it. Because girls are often depicted as people without sexual desire, or that they should be on the passive side. And that boys are the ones obsessing over it, and it's totally fine. So, the show refutes this by doing that. The way I see it, the show is portraying different sides of growing up, and developing friendship at that. Even Ji Won who is constantly obsessing over sex/guys is portrayed positively at that. I mean, if she's that sad about being single, will she be jumping around happily, bursting with positive energy like that? Talking about sex is just one facet of hers.

But I understand your last point. Many k-drama (and drama from other countries) focus on a relationship. But as many other commenters before me already made a list, there are also many dramas that don't focus on that. You just have to look further.

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hi there

so I am not dumb since I have been on Beans of Wisdom twice. Don´t trust IQ tests, but I can trust BoW, right?

since 38 TAsk Force /police unit / squad / team / Fellowship of the Con /the drama with 38 in it as it has become known ended, I have been watching bts and stuff and ... you know, I admire Seo In Guk as an actor a lot and his ability to transform himself, but since I am not keen on probing into the personal stuff about celebrities I didnt know his background till now... I just happened to watch a clip I didnt intend to and find out he´s had weight issues and even an eating disorder. Oh my god. this makes me anxious, since he does seem to have lost weight wince I Remember You, I hope it was just for the role of Jung Do. To keep things fair and balanced after finding out his personal detail I give mine: I have had an eating disorder too. it is a mind trap that is very hard to defeat and takes a very strong will power. Ingukkie, stay healthy, I will too. I sympathize with him even more now if that is possible.

see, that is why I dont usually probe... hard enough to live with your own secrets.

I have been hanging on to the hope of a season 2 but that hope grows thinner by every sceptical comment. and why is there a layer of sugar on my tabel (random note since I am writing in the dark and the table is sticky). and how the heck did it happen that after getting the carpet pulled from under my feet by this show so many times, I have, instead of learning my lesson and doubting juicy promises, I fall for them even harder and become more trusting? me, the queen of skeptics, mental twin to Fox Mulder?

Oh man....

So, another week of my life flew by. at least I got work done, the postcards have been ordered, my exhibition pieces printed (word cloud pillows, they are).

watched:
I am a little scared to mention the count but rewatched I Remember You ... ok, 28. I have watched it 28 times.
W - what is with this series... the beginning, to me, was rather dull. But Lee Jong Seuk has improved in acting a little in this episode. Not so bored out any more, but not a favorite of mine. let´s see if it gives enough brain food by next ep to interest me. I would have been such a gonner for this 6 years ago, having always considered fantasy characters as real as people, but...
I get it that since that world is a webtoon it can be immature and illogical but to the expent of why go around the mountain if you can travel around the world to the other side of that mountain...olympic shooter with a gun under his pillow jumps down a bridge to kill himself? why am I laughing so hard? oh man... and then why draw a male character after being inspired by a girl? is the writer of this drama a guy, huh? news for the writer: girls draw girl heroes. they dont draw princesses cause they want to be one - they draw them because the princesses have the main part in the stories. though it may be different with teenagers... but teens are...

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hi there

so I am not dumb since I have been on Beans of Wisdom twice. Don´t trust IQ tests, but I can trust BoW, right?

since 38 TAsk Force /police unit / squad / team / Fellowship of the Con /the drama with 38 in it as it has become known ended, I have been watching bts and stuff and ... you know, I admire Seo In Guk as an actor a lot and his ability to transform himself, but since I am not keen on probing into the personal stuff about celebrities I didnt know his background till now... I just happened to watch a clip I didnt intend to and find out he´s had weight issues and even an eating disorder. Oh my god. this makes me anxious, since he does seem to have lost weight wince I Remember You, I hope it was just for the role of Jung Do. To keep things fair and balanced after finding out his personal detail I give mine: I have had an eating disorder too. it is a mind trap that is very hard to defeat and takes a very strong will power. Ingukkie, stay healthy, I will too. I sympathize with him even more now if that is possible.

see, that is why I dont usually probe... hard enough to live with your own secrets.

I have been hanging on to the hope of a season 2 but that hope grows thinner by every sceptical comment. and why is there a layer of sugar on my tabel (random note since I am writing in the dark and the table is sticky). and how the heck did it happen that after getting the carpet pulled from under my feet by this show so many times, I have, instead of learning my lesson and doubting juicy promises, I fall for them even harder and become more trusting? me, the queen of skeptics, mental twin to Fox Mulder?

Oh man....

So, another week of my life flew by. at least I got work done, the postcards have been ordered, my exhibition pieces printed (word cloud pillows, they are).

watched:
I am a little scared to mention the count but rewatched I Remember You ... ok, 28. I have watched it 28 times.
W - what is with this series... the beginning, to me, was rather dull. But Lee Jong Seuk has improved in acting a little in this episode. Not so bored out any more, but not a favorite of mine. let´s see if it gives enough brain food by next ep to interest me. I would have been such a gonner for this 6 years ago, having always considered fantasy characters as real as people, but...
I get it that since that world is a webtoon it can be immature and illogical but to the expent of why go around the mountain if you can travel around the world to the other side of that mountain...olympic shooter with a gun under his pillow jumps down a bridge to kill himself? why am I laughing so hard? oh man... and then why draw a male character after being inspired by a girl? is the writer of this drama a guy, huh? news for the writer: girls draw girl heroes. they dont draw princesses cause they want to be one - they draw them because the princesses have the main part in the stories. though it may be different with teenagers... but teens are...

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Does that mean you are dumb if you don't make it to BoW? Just joking :)

I need to re-watch I Remember You.
And there were some complaints this week's 'W' spending too much time on romance. But I loved it. Feels like this show is anime, especially when Lee Jong Seuk (and his suits) actually looks like cartoon character (not real person heh). Anyway 'W' makes us think too much. Could be bad for health :)

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Wao. And I thought watching it 4 times more after the series ended was a lot. But... 28?!?

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nope, but I am thankful that my jokes are appreciated here on DB cause I just got another notice about some things I posted on Facebook, I mean I post funny stuff visitors say but some people have no sense of humor and even though there are no names, no mention of looks other than a man / woman / family, miraculously some folks feel personally offended. and I was told to apologize but they didnt say for which joke and from what time and I was like, this is my number and my e-mail I work here, come find me and tell me but dont gimme this anonymous bitter bullshit if you cannot point out what or when. and they havent called me. I guess in some eyes museum employee can never joke. we have to smile while being internally solemn. well, I am not a turnip. and I am glad I can be me and not a turnip with a dull expression here on Dramabeans. thank you, and be patient, I am sharp but honest.

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Hey there! So sad to hear that W isn't your style, but that's okay -- it's a new idea, and not for everyone. :)

Just want to correct a misconception you have: the writer is a woman. Her name is Song Jae Jung, and she's known for her brilliant plotting. (She's written the dramas High Kick, Coffee House, Queen In-Hyun's Man, Nine, and Three Musketeers.)

Regarding Kang Cheol's creation: In episode five, we see Yeon Joo drawing him at a very young age while her parents are fighting, before she "officially" draws him up in high school as her ideal man. So there's probably much more to the story of his existence and creation than what's been revealed so far.

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ok I get it. it just get so confusing.

yeah, it could be my taste if I was say 8-9 years younger or more. and it still has these "empty" moments, that are just long enough to kill the flow. where dialogue or editing is too slow.

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Yeah, and there's no shame in it not being to your taste! :)

I personally really LOVE some elements (the show's existentialism, the care taken with KC's psychology, the clever meta, the atmospheric creepiness), and don't really feel some others (I wish both of KC's shootings were given a bit more weight and consequence for him post-shooting. When he shot YJ -- I would've liked a more thorough discussion between them about what happened, and more time spent with YJ so we can see why she forgives him. Right now, I have to pretend he didn't actually shoot her in order to believe the romance. Although that convo and kiss outside the hospital DID move me -- it was so gentle, sad, and sweet!)

But for some others, they love the romance, and could do without the philosophical discussions between KC and his creator. What moves one person doesn't necessarily move all people. But that's what's great about personal taste! :)

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You know, last night, I was thinking about Kang Chul's origin. Yeon Joo first drew a younger version of him when she was quite young. Someone had commented that it seemed strange that she would draw a boy with a guy. Given Korean gun laws and culture, it seems unlikely that she would have much exposure to guns.

What if Kang Chul and his world are not entirely creations of Yeon Joo and Writer Oh. What if they already existed in another dimension. Somehow, Yeon Joo as a child was able to access that dimension and either met or saw Kang Chul. Maybe the manhwa is more of a bridge to that dimesion rather than being that dimension. In some way, the manhwa influences that dimension, but does not define its entire existence.

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I like this. I hope that she can see a third dimension.

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Yes! That sound like a great way for the plot to go! One of the things I love about W is that I can't see where to plot is going, the downside is that it could be a huge disappointment.

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@beanie, that's so true about Song Jae-jung. Just like with the writer of Bad Guys/PU38. I tend to trust them to explain things later so I'm not bothered if some things aren't answered right now.

I think if this is a different writer, I'd be throwing stuff at the screen and demanding explanations right now! LOL

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delete the current 2.1,

, I have copied the same thing that the first part:

continued message

they dont draw princesses cause they want to be one - they draw them because the princesses have the main part in the stories. though it may be different with teenagers... but teens are terrified of being found out, I doubt they would have a picture of a guy lieing around. this drama is trying to claim every female subconsciously dreams of a male savior or knight and a romance with him. Nope. every girl dreams of being self-sufficient. in general, there is too much chauvinism in W for my taste. obsession with marrying someone off by the end ( so marriage = happy end? oooh nopw what end) and mentalk in the back room without the girl knowing. dont like.

tried to watch bad guys, but I keep getting distracted.

QUESTION: has your drama preference changed over time? By how many degrees, is it a complete reversal? Is there a drama that you like now that you couldnt have imagined liking back in the day, and vice versa, is there a drama you liked immensely but either grew out of the style or genre or your horizons just broadened so much that you started seeing the flaws of something you used to worship?

I think my drama preference has always been a little tilted towards quirky comedy, dark thriller and action with a little bit romance, I used to not like sageuks at all (it was perhaps too odd, too new in my world, cause we dont really do historic dramas in such a manner here?), but now I can handle them. especially after Six Flying Dragons. Also I didnt mind the romantic clichés before, I could put them on repeat and rewind in secret, though I´d never admit it, but now these same scenes make me cringe. I would prefer no romance at all to scenes that are in every drama ever... just give me something new not what you think I would like.

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Re: Question

I think my drama preference has indeed changed over time perhaps it's mostly due to age heh. Used to think romcoms/romance were my genre - started off with MNIKSS, Goong etc but it was only last year that I discovered my favourite genre turned out to be those suspense kind, like Pride and Prejudice. I think if shows like Doctors were aired about two years ago I might have chosen to watch it as soon as it aired.

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Agreed. Has your drama preference changed over time?
This is exactly what I thought about when there were dissing comments between Doctors and Beautiful Minds. If I were 10 years younger, I would've watched Doctors, and never wanted to see BM. But this time I couldn't wait to watch BM and it became kind of my first priority.

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At least I hope that every girl has a chance to dream of being self sufficient.

drama preference : I really liked Beautiful Gong Shim because, for one thing, the second male lead was a normal, decent, chaebol (I don't have anything against cheabols just for being one). My first encounter with chaebols (read: BoF and FLBS, CH) I thought it was an entertaining aspect of kdramas with those cold, rich, spoiled, privileged, bad-tempered second generation conglomerate heirs treating others badly because of who they were born and found personality redemption (sometimes) in the right poor girl (Candy). But when I think about it, if feels so dated and cave world even though it might represent SK's economic rise in the 21st century and now when I see that stereotype in a kdrama I'm bored, annoyed, and disappointed. That's why I loved BGS so much - oh, and the fact that Shim's hair wasn't this huge looks issue - loved that too. A lot.

Although I have to throw in the RL female chaebol with the peanut/airlines incident that gave chaebols everywhere a bad name...kdrama, anyone? heh

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Re: Question

I don't think my taste has changed. I've been about romcoms for as long as I can remember, i.e. Janeite (Jane Austen fan)
But I do think my genre scope has become wider. I realize now that there's more than the 3-5 genres I thought of when I was a child. Now there's more and unique mixes of genres.
Some of my favorites aren't perfect romcoms and some are.
I think I'm growing in giving the genres I never knew about a chance. Unless it's straight up horror, I tend to like well written stories.

Thought provoking question. Thank you!

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Me! My drama preference definitely changed a lot.

I used to love fluffy romantic comedies (I still do btw) but now I want one that has more substance and is more thought-provoking with complex characters. If I were younger, I would def have watched DOTs or Doctors.

I also rarely watched dramas that had no romance but now I find myself more interested in them (Misaeng, Signal, Vampire Prosecutor, etc)

I still hate melodramas though. I hated any drama that made me cry, BUT now I'm ok with them so long as no one is ill cos I still can't abide melodramas with terminal illnesses, so I never watch them

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@redfox--Suddenly, I know the definition of devotion. Devotion = watching a drama 28 times or more!!! Hahaha... but your comment in response to Erratic's comment made me wonder if you meant "28 times" as a joke, too?

My confession is that since I was a teen until perhaps college, I must have watched the 1980s Cantonese kungfu drama series, "Return of the Condor Heroes," starring Andy Lau and Idy Chan, over 30 times at least.. And just so you know, it is probably 3-4 times longer than a Kdrama.. my guess is 50+ episodes.

The copy I first owned was in VHS tapes, then later VCD, and now (finally) I own it on DVD. HAha... It was my absolute favorite drama to watch and I could even recite different characters's lines.

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Here's a present for you @Beanfan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulnuOSoBD4c

1983, that was a long long time ago... I still vividly remember my elder sister and cousins excitedly glued their eyes to the tv screen while watching these TVB "kungfu" dramas and talked endlessly about them afterwards. Since young, I've not been a fan of period drama, the only exception being a few of Tsui Hark's movies, even now, I seldom watch korean sageuk. But still, I agree that this 1983 Return of the Condor Heroes is one of the best period drama which is unsurpassed by subsequent remakes.

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You had me reminiscing about the old days..
omg, Andy Lau sang this same song years later, I'm quite surprised to find this on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SOC3hir1oM

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@Pebble--Thanks so much for the trip down memory lane. I know all the words to the OST by heart, and back when there weren't cds of it, I would take my tape recorder and put it near the tv speakers to tape the OST. Hah.. The things we do for our dramas!

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oh, no, that comment was meant as a reply about the beans of Wisdom stuff. I am all serious about I Remember You and I still discover new emotions in it!

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Oh, I forgot to add...sorry to hear about your eating disorder, redfox. And, it's disheartening to hear that Seo In Guk has one too, or had one. It must be hard living in the spotlight, so I'm sure more than one star struggles with weight and self-image issues.

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he talked about it right after winning Superstar K in a talk show (strong heart?) and though he didnt name it, he described what happened and it was very painful to hear. to think of the struggle he went through, and it was all because of stress. avoid stress. It is very bad. It can do very evil things to you.

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Yes, it was the second season of Strong Heart, oddly named, Incarnation.

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I'm sorry to hear about your eating disorder, redfox. It is a real struggle. I have eating tendencies similar to the newly DSM 5 approved, avoidance restrictive food intake disorder. I'm glad yours seems to be past tense.

I remember that SIG's vocal cords were in danger/damaged because of it. Which is an added pain for a singer. But he got that sorted out. He does seem to have lost weight. And he's always working. I hope he is looking better when Shopping King Louie starts. I'd hate for him to tape back to back without the stamina. I wonder how it will be during his military duty.

Fighting, oppa!

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he looks his best with broad shoulders and strong arms. as Jung Do, he perhaps had to look more skinny because of the prison years and hectic lifestyle.

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oh, and why would you feel sorry? I didnt post that to get pity, It was a lesson for me to take along. It was a very important experience. Taught me what pressure, fear and stress can do and how mere good will doesnt solve problems. these things are very similar to addictions in that you have no control over it (while people think you are doing it deliberately so you can also stop just by deciding to. Nope. the only thing that helps is not feeling guilty if you dont meet all the expectations.

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It makes sense that Jung Do would be skinnier getting out of prison.

Fair enough, no pity here. I hate pity. I meant I sympathize with the fact that you experienced that. But facing hardship, especially when they are with you 24/7, does build resilience and exposes your strength of character.

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1) Did you all hear about SM's strategic alliance with KeyEAST? Apparently they will have access to each other's resources and idols/actors. What do you think this means? It was announced a few hours ago.

http://www.allkpop.com/article/2016/08/sm-entertainment-and-keyeast-join-hands

2) LeeJongSuk is being personally managed by YG's CEO and LJS is apparently pissed about the management. Again, thoughts?

http://onehallyu.com/topic/376531-lee-jongsuk-said-yg-need-to-fix-his-management-update-proper-translation/

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Was he pissed? I thought he said it in jest because YG is so unprepared for actors, he's had to step in and manage LJS himself. And your 2nd link has an edit/update. Apparently the proper translation is LJS didn't say that "fix your management" thing at all. Haha too bad, I laughed so much to hear him say that.

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(from the article) KeyEast is home to names like Bae Yong Joon, Kim Soo Hyun, Hara, Lee Hyun Woo
wonder what that means for their actors, maybe some collabo projects between idols and these actors? I can already picture Minho and Kim Soohyun measuring their acting skills *cough *cough

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That LJS article isn't true at all. No YG manager has quit because of LJS. LJS got assigned one YG manager since the beginning and he is still working by him. We know because the manager is on instagram and even thanked and praised LJS. And the rest of LJS's staff has been same for over 5 years. He brought all the old staff when he came to YG so he doesn't need their people. YG has nothing to do with LJS's drama fashion. It's done by GIANT stylist team who works exclusively with LJS. So everything in the article is bullshit. It's written to attack LJS and korean fans have been trying to get YG to sue the reporter.

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After seeing all the PPL for subway on kdramas ,I actually really have a really curious question. Can I ask what is everyone's favourite subway sandwich ? Mine is definitely cold cut trio w a chocolate cookie

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6" veggie deluxe on flatbread with honey mustard

oh no now I have a craving for Subway...don't tell me PPL actually work :O

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Italian BMT. 6-inch. Honey Oat. Swiss Cheese. Toasted. I would like Lettuce, tomatoes, green pepper, and mayonnaise with that.

And yes, I would like to make it a combo please. Grabs Lay's oven baked chips.

That would be how much?

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I used to work there, so the smell of the bread makes me gag now.

Back in the day my signature sandwich was a veggie patty on the honey breads, with sweet chilli sauce BEFORE toasting so it was caramelised, finished off with all the salad (no tomatoes or olives, ick) and then honey mustard sauce.

No, of course I couldn't close it. I split it between my siblings and I during my break or after my shift.

But those cookies - man, they were the reason I learnt how to bake! Spent too much of my wage on them...or just ate the broken ones....after breaking them ._.

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I've never thought of toasting g to caramelized the sauce. As usual the former employees know all the secrets.

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Don't really like Subway all that much but if I go I get a veggie sub with everything plus jalapenos and lots of mayo. I love mayo. After I saw Reply 88 I made bibimbap with mayo and green chile and it was delicious.

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Oregano bread, Subway melt, all the veggies except jalapenoes, with honey mustard sauce.

I used to love the cookies then I found a better recipe for salted chocolate chip cookies so I don't buy them anymore- i make them myself! XD

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Salted chocolate chip cookies, you say...? Could you perhaps point me towards that recipe, michykdrama? :-)

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http://www.davidlebovitz.com/salted-butter-chocolate-chip-cookies-recipe/

Enjoy!
Everyone who has eaten these loved them, and I don't bother with the tray rotation and tapping them because I don't care what they look like, as long as they taste good! ;D

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Excellent, thank you so much!! They sound delicious and I wil make them as soon as possible. :-)

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Ooh! Subway melt fan here too! Tho I like mine with white Italian bread, all veggies except jalapenos/anchovies/pickles and also with honey mustard!! Love it! There was a time (during Misaeng days, that I'd eat subway once a week, ughhhhh!)

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I only tried a Subway sandwich once and really, really did not like it. No need for it in my country, we have plenty of excellent bread. ;-)

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Tuna footlong with an italian herbs and cheese bread for me. Touch it up with some honey mustard and vinegar along with some veggies and you have a delicious sandwich. A little hot cheetos as a side as well, because why not.

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My last Subway visit was eons ago and all the Subway branches in my city have actually closed down afaik. lol
I don't have a fav sub but I loooove their cookies (macadamia nuts white chocolate anyone ? And I usually don't even like white choc, ha)

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Love tuna but sometimes they make it with too much mayo.

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I used to think it was the BMT but I had one recently and realized I like it a lot less than Jimmy John's italian sub. I used to like the seafood (fake crab) but I think they've dropped it, so that leaves me the veggie delight with everything except jalapenos on italian herbs & cheese bread. I get that sometimes when I feel like I need a salad & bread.

Subway can be very high sodium though. (All subs are). For every 6" of bread OR meat, it's at least 500 milligrams. A footlong turkey on whole wheat is 2000 milligrams and that's before cheese, pickles, olives, or dressings.

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Sad I didn't get my second fix of W this week but at least they didn't leave us hanging on a crazy clifhanger.

Uncontrollably Fond - episode 12 is just what I've been waiting for with this show. Finally the secrets are coming out! Woo hoo. Suzy was brilliant this episode (and I cringed at the drunken 'acting' a few eps ago). She had me in tears, sobbing in front of that door, right along with her. I can't wait for next week!

I'm excited to be seeing Park So Dam on my screens tomorrow. I love a reverse harem and these guys are gorgeous.

August 20th will release the second part of my newest BL obsession Uncontrolled Love. It's gonna be amaaaazzzzinnng. Believe it.

Can't wait for Korean Scarlet Heart and Moonlight with PBG.

I feel like this year has been a gift from the gods.

I"ve seen so much good stuff and there's so much more to come (A Slight Smile is Very Alluring).

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also cant wait to see park so dam again, also im loving the chemistry i've been seeing with park so dam and jung ilwoo. ive been craving a good rom com and this one promises a heart racing one. i need something like that, i feel like its been a while.

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I was sad there was no 'W' yesterday but UF episode 12 made up for it. It was Good (I didn't know I could say this for this show). Suzy was better But no, her delivery of lines feels still awkward to me.
I am also excited to Jung Il-woo and hope the show is available by the time I get home.

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Happy OT
didn't watch much drama besides the obligatory fan
W- two world
and
99 days with the Superstar (Boku to Star no 99 Nichi)
starred Kim Tae Hae and Hidetoshi Nishijima (kyaaa),
and this time, the PPL work greatly to me,
I saw the Puung books like last week in the bookstore and have no intention to bought it but now after watching W ep 7, I was like
"hey I got my reason" the I bought it
[the pic] http://i.imgur.com/1ddZ4Ib.jpg
I also trying to draw Kang Chul in some spare time, over lunch,
even if it didn't really look like him but yeah W give me a lot of fun
[the pic] http://i.imgur.com/8NnuMDO.jpg

for (Boku to Star no 99 Nichi)
this is really cute and I have to say that they make KTH looked super pretty, not the Korean pretty with her glowing skin but pretty with very little makeup possible,
it just like she is really looked that way without makeup,
and her acting is really good and fitted the theme,
the drama is funny and they have an adorable bromance, just watch till ep 3 and I damn sure will finish it.

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Glad to hear that about no 99. It's my next kdrama *if I ever finish INK na d NC*

AHHHHH!!! I love the pic of LJS! I think it's pretty good. Might even let you into W the webtoon.

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Oh. No song? Thanks for the post DB Staff. The description for OT is appreciated ?

Question: have you ever had a drama themed dream?
Me: all I know is Jang Hyuk, Lee Jong Suk, Park Shin Hye, Kim Woo Bin, Suzy, Seo In Guk, Kang Min Hyuk were in a giant building. And people wanted medical attention. I'm not sure who from.

Week catch up:
Done with work. Two weeks off until classes start. I'll be helping eonnie with the baby, cleaning, planning and drama watching. Still have medical things to take care of. Ugh, phone calls.
I'll be blogging all week. I'm feeling about a 3? Maybe 4. The anxiety dreams are growing in strength.

New phone wallpaper: https://t.co/WAj1dsemfc
My baby looks amazing! All the shows I've seen him in, only missing one supernatural drama that didn't interest me.

Korean:
Doctors – why did I have to catch up the week that my baby Kim Minsuk got sick?
Uncontrollably Fond - next ep 5. I'm in. Woob makes up for Suzy Bae. He might be becoming my acting bias again. Like whoa, he just lights up my screen. Not loving the use of the Ims.
W - next ep 8, still trying to process everything and reply to the comments.
TF38 – on ep 12 What is happening?!
The "fight" had me doubled over laughing. I've seen 2nd graders fight better.
Age of Youth - dropped on ep 3
Cinderella and the Four Knights - ep 1 tonight

Japanese:
Nodame Cantabile – next ep 7 *still no progress*
Love Live Sunshine – next ep 7, a slow and cheerful show
Itazura na Kiss (1996) – next ep 4 *still no progress*
Orange - next ep 5, this show is incredibly melancholy and makes me anxious yet happy. I still want my ship to survive, but I hope my bae makes it through school. I think the worst thing about this show is there is no preview ?

Taiwanese:
Fall in Love with Me - on ep 3, this show is fun. Aarons looks amazing.

Western:
Girl Meets World – next S 3 ep 9 airs tonight. Joshaya for life!

Reading:
The Way People Live: Life in Genghis Khan's Mongolia by Robert Taylor.
Sakamoto: chapter 2

Have a good day!

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Doctors - Noooo! How dare they go there! A pox on them! I am looking forward to Hye Jung's plan to take on Seo Woo's Dad. I really hope Seo Woo continues to throw shade at her Dad. It's the coolest she's ever been.

I tend to be pretty hit or miss with the Taiwanese dramas but I do really like Aaron Yan. I really enjoyed Just You, despite the apparent mental illness of the second female lead (why does everyone just accept rich girl crazyness?).

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Doctors - I am enjoying Seo Woo's redemption arc. I hope she continues to tell her dad the facts. She's the only person that affects him it seems. Even if he refuses to get it, her words still bother him.

I've only watched a few but Taiwanese dramas are very different. I'm not sure what my opinion is exactly but it makes the time before bed pass quickly and the language is beautiful. The stories are a bit more fantastically.
This is my first Aaron Yan drama. I'm falling for him *no pun intended*
I know I don't have to decide between the for Fahrenheit members but now I'm wondering if my bias is him or Jiro. All I can do is keep watching to find out ?

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Aaron Yan is hot! Just You was great but I couldn't stomach Tia Lee's expressionless face in Fall in Love With Me.

Episode 16 totally turned me off Doctors, and not because of what happened to Puppy Minsuk. All of the doctors are either incompetent or immature or unconscionable! Drove me batty with how ridiculous everyone was acting, except for Yoon Do, but he wasn't enough to save the drama for me.

But I think the writer has something against puppies because Ji Soo got flung off a motorbike with a broken neck, and now MinSuk gets a brain tumour and seizures. She can't leave the puppies alone!

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Aaron Yan had me from the first Clark Kent-ing moment. A man that can rock both looks is golden. I haven't seen Just You. The Viki comments make me think it may be superior to the one I'm watching but I'd already started so, shrug. I don't mind Tai Lee. I don't really watch her while she acts, though. I look at other parts of the scene.
And I only watch after I've taken my Ambien so it's not analytical watching.

Yes, I was so annoyed by the hand off. I don't think it's Seo Woo's fault like most viki commentors. I think the entire department should be to blame. They should fix the system rather than chasing after Hye Jung.
Otherwise, the doctors kinda of cracke up because they are decent to good at their jobs but not at being people. I think the writers took the healing drama aspect too far and want to show everyone growing. Yoon Do still has his immature moments to me, like the whole feeding the residents competition he started on his own.
It's like a preschool that spends recess saving lives.

I wish we could save the puppies. But from a fan point of view, I'm very happy for Jisoo and Minsuk.

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Haha! "Preschool that spends recess saving lives" Love it!!

Anything that gets another Aaron Yan fan is good in my book. I can't compare the shows fairly because I didn't finish FILWM. He is taking some time off to study directing though so I'm excited for whe he comes back! I have a super soft spot for actors who try directing like Nam Goong Min.

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well, considering on how long you stuck in eps 4/5 of nodame, getting through ep 7 is considered progress!!

finally (with a lot of effort) I manage to finish Sakamoto manga. now I'm sure I will not even try to watch the anime. it's just that he's too "cool" (yeah, he's the "coolest"!) to the point that I was frozen with my jaw touching the floor. and here I can even re-watch the whole eps of Princess Princess D drama (live action with Takeru Sato)!

as for which ever ship are you on Orange, the ending may give you some short of bittersweet feeling. I only read the manga, haven't watch the anime nor live action movie, but the last chapter made me cry even in my third re-read session. I won't spoil you, have fun and enjoy the journey :)

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Lol, I promise I'm not going to make up an excuse every week. But I think I finally figured out why I'm having trouble with Nodame Cantabile.

I rushed through the anime all 3 seasons from 14 October 2014 - 18 October 2014. That's the most I've ever binged watched. Then, I watched Tomorrow Cantabile live.

I've been watching the Japanese at least since DotS was on *my TV tracking system is strange*. It may have even been last year that I started it. I think I'm watching it so slowly because I want to savor the fun of the orchestra and Chiaki/Nodame.

I wonder when I'll ever finish ?

Sakamoto is such a fun play on the megane archetype. There's an Internet post, I believe it started on tumblr, asking for a silent glasses foreign character everyone thinks is all of but in the final episode we find out they just don't understand Japanese. I doubt we'll ever get that story, but Sakamoto made me think of that.
Different tastes I guess.

I don't want to tempt spoilers so I'll simply say my ship cares deeply about each other. I think I'm going to have a bittersweet feeling at the end just because it's over. But I am getting more excited about watching animes and then reading the manga so I have something to look forward to.

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well, whenever I re-watch nodame live action (drama, SP, or movie version), most of the time I only rewatch the S-Ok or RS-Ok or every nodame's or chiaki's performance. I love classical pieces before, and I love it even more after watch nodame. jdorama really go all out on that, from how they "play" instrument to music editing. I'm happy they feature Tchaikovsky, especially Violin concerto in D major and Overture 1812. I'm sorry to say that in this departement, k-version doesn't stand a chance, I blame live-shooting schedule for this so they don't have enough time to practice nor edit it properly.

about Sakamoto, my friend keep bugging me to give it chance since she know that I have megane fetish. boys with glasses mostly always attract me in every manga (plus point most of the time they always been potrayed as compose and collected), even when they are just supporting character. but as I mention before, sakamoto is too cool, I was frozen!

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As Yukari Said Orange is troublesome. I haven't touched any chapter of it since 2015. I'm afraid what will happen to them and by extension to me.

Handa Kun is far better than Sakamoto.

I have pushed all of my J-dorama for 2017 binge watch. 2016 is reserved for Kdramas.

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Whoops also, P.S:

Obviously, this is all just my opinion though, and I can totally understand and respect someone having a different thought.

Also double P.S: I realise I didn't mention the Korean and Thailand adaptations, but this is because both of them made a lot of changes so they felt more like an 'inspired by' rather than 'based on' feel which I don't really count as an adaptation, yknow?

(Especially the Thailand adaptation, man wow, I couldn't even get past the first episode because when the Thailand version of Naoki said "I never lie" I just LOST IT, dramatically waving my hands at the laptop monitor and shrieking "What do you mean you never lie?! LYING IS WHO NAOKI IS. HE IS A LYING LIAR WHO LIES ABOUT HIS FEELINGS. WHAT KIND OF CHARACTER ASSASSINATION IS THIS.")

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Annnnnnd now I realise I replied to the wrong comment. Sorry ^^;; the above was meant to be a P.S to my longer comment below.

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oH MY DAYS BE CAREFUL -- ahem. sorry. I didn't mean to shout lol, I was just skimming and 'saw Itazura na Kisu 1996' and it was like the world going into black and white slow motion right before a car crash. My reaction's out of my hands X'D

Anyway, basically just wanted to give you a fair warning: if you're a fan of the original manga (like my poor naive innocent self was), the 1996 drama adaptation REALLY changes things around. Tbh I barely even remember most of the changes, what really sticks out in my memory is just that numb feeling of horror I had after finishing it and spluttering 'THIS is the only live action adaptation they made?!' (which, at that point in time, it was lol)

So yeah, fair warning given. If you're looking for something that's a little closer to the manga's story, then I strongly recommend the Taiwanese adaptation, 'It Started With a Kiss'. The other jdrama adaptation, Love in Tokyo, is okayyyyyy but skipped some things/added unnecessary things, and frankly I feel the two leads just...lacked some chemistry. They were still good together tho! But just, not Ariel Lin and Joe Cheng good lol. I mean obvs it being an adaptation, the Taiwanese adaptation is not 100% the same either, but it changed very little compared to the other adaptations, the writing was much better, and the leads, I feel, had very strong chemistry.

But yes. Shutting up now. Sorry for the disturbance ^^;;

(in my defence I have a very special place in my heart for Itazura na kisu so I tend to overreact when it's brought up... X'D sorry again)

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Lol, no problem. I was a little confused by P.S on CatoCat's comment.

I appreciate the concern about viewing the 1996 INK. It makes me think of my reaction to the 1940 Pride & Prejudice.

I knew going into the original jdrama that it wasn't very good. I haven't read the manga but I watched the anime first.

ISwaK is the most faithful adaptation. I loved the 2013 and the leads chemistry but it was mainly my new found bae Furukawa Yuki. The Korean was my second version. Oh Ha Ni was the best part for me.

The Thai version is my personal favorite. It was "inspired by". The change I appreciated the most was the fact that they knew each other as children. It made so much more sense to me. But I can see what you mean about the Naoki/Tenten lying thing. Imo, it speaks to the true character. Naoki doesn't know he lies. He believes he doesn't and it makes sense that 17-19 year old him would say that. He barely believes he lies or has feelings for her when literally everyone tells him he does.

That's just my opinion based on my understanding of the anime. Thanks for the thorough comment ?

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I'm glad you knew! The worst thing for me is going into a drama expecting stars and fireworks only to get weak fizzling embers, so super relieved to hear there's no disappointment. (That said obvs I also hope that you enjoy your watch. I mean who knows, I was pretty young at the time I watched the jdrama adaptation, so maybe it's much better than I remember it to be.)

The anime is /adorable/ and I feel the best media outside the manga since it includes the ending that was originally planned out by the mangaka (as relayed to the anime studio by her husband) so it really feels like a full-circle experience.

Also wow, I'm really glad to hear your thoughts about the Thailand version! It makes me want to give it a second shot, since I just noped out without giving my usual 4-episode-test-run.

And your opinion totally makes sense! Tbh, there are so many ways to interpret Naoki's actions since he's such a complex character, and that's why it's a lot of fun for me to hear other's opinions since it opens up my own view of him. And even that changes a lot tbh lol, because every single time I rewatch/reread InK in any form, I always find myself wondering and reevaluating just how aware he is of his own feelings.

Like, sometimes he feels very aware, like sneaking that second kiss, his whole 'oh I just happened to come home early and buy cake that's your favourite flavour total coincedence', and then the whopping big lie of 'yes I like this total stranger in this arranged marriage'. But other times, like you said, he's just in this murky swamp of denial/obliviousness where he has absolutely no idea why he's doing what he's doing, with the best example being the whole post-marriage jealousy debacle when he was lashing out while honestly not having the slightest clue why.

Naoki's such a good character honestly, in the sense that he's so contradictory just like real people are. Which is also probably why I'm so attached lol.

Annnnnnnd sorry again this reply got much longer than I'd intended it to be haha. InK's just got a really special place in my heart, really. I mean like, even though I feel like Love in Tokyo wasn't as good an adaptation as ISwaK, I still loved it a lot and ended up straight up CRYING out of pure fangirl nostalgia when I was watching it because I was so overwhelmed with my memories of just how much I loved those characters and their story.

So yes, my apologies for the word tidal wave of unbearable length, I'll stop now. ^^;;;; Thanks so much for replying and sharing your opinion as well!

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Purple Owl,

I talked about my drama related dream a few weeks ago in Open Thread! lol

Now, I don't really remember what is was about. Something about cafeteria food and avocados. With spies!

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A dream with avocados and spies? Your subconscious is being punny...

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(I'm reposting again without links so it'll get through - if it does, mods can ignore the last one)

1) Did you all hear about SM’s strategic alliance with KeyEAST? Apparently they will have access to each other’s resources and idols/actors. What do you think this means? It was announced a few hours ago. SM's been trying to take over the drama world for quite some time now since they already hold scary influence in the idol world (remember JYJ?)

2) LeeJongSuk is being personally managed by YG’s CEO and LJS is apparently pissed about the management. Again, thoughts?

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haha, my comment also waiting for moderation for the link, IDK if it will get through

1) I don't really follow the SM as the big bully in the entertainment world but they've been trying to be big.
in regards to JYJ, it's not helping that the JYJ member themselves didn't paint a good image,
for me, it's the management, it's the business world and it's like the sky, we didn't know if we just look it from afar,
but I see them changing throughout the year,
I actually give some respect for SM C&C when they signed many named with scandal , like kang ho dong, shin dong yup and lee soo geun, they give their artist work

2) YG management is always messy, it always been like that and sad to know they still not improve

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