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Lovestruck in the City: Episodes 12-13 Open Thread

It’s been a long and tiring journey for our heroine, who has experienced everything from betrayal to new love and loss. And knowing what we know now, it’s understandable that she wants to go on with her life instead of complicating things further. But who knows, maybe in the long run, this one complication will be worth enduring.

 
EPISODES 12-13 WEECAP

As expected, having Jae-won mixed in with Eun-oh and her friends is all kinds of awkward. The group gets on topic of the camera thief, and Jae-won and Eun-oh argue (while the others watch them with confusion). Kyung-joon then asks to see Eun-oh’s necklace with the rings, earning Jae-won’s attention, but Eun-oh snaps that, unlike some people, she keeps her love life private.

Jae-won gets tired of her attitude (or maybe that’s just me), so he confronts her when they’re alone. He gives her the chance to explain herself — the lies, the breakup, everything. This is the perfect time for an adult conversation and some actual healing, but she still won’t talk. Now completely done, he figures that she’s nothing but a fake; Yoon Sun-ah wouldn’t dodge him like this. He leaves her as she starts to cry.

Later, Eun-oh gets drunk and wanders outside, running into an equally drunk Sun-young. They have an exchange that would be funny. Y’know, if I cared. It just reminds me that Sun-young has been nothing but rude or drunk all this time. After they part, Eun-oh aimlessly rides the bus, and we see that she did the same thing after she broke up with her fiance.

Apparently, Eun-oh caught her fiance in the act, and the jerkface told her that he sent plenty of signals he didn’t like her anymore, calling her too ordinary. Then, when she lost what was supposed to be her new job, the employer also called her too ordinary. With nowhere to go, Eun-oh took the bus all the way to Yangyang, where she would eventually meet Bin and Lala. And Jae-won.

In their interviews, Eun-oh and Sun-young reveal that they didn’t want to break up with their boyfriends the way they did. Eun-oh was going to meet up with Jae-won, but once she actually saw him, she got scared. As for Sun-young, all she wanted from Geon was confirmation that he loved her, since she’d never gotten it from anyone before.

My question is, why are we getting all of this now? I get that Jae-won and Geon had to be in the dark, but we needed this light shed on the girls a looong time ago.

Skip ahead, and we see that Eun-oh somehow ends up in Jae-won’s house. It turns out that she saved his number (under the name “❤❤❤,” heh) and drunk-texted him, prompting him to come pick her up. With them together, without the other characters around, they have the time to talk things out more freely.

But here’s the thing. Even when they finally have the conversation they’ve been needing, they just talk in circles. It’s not until Eun-oh blurts out her real fears that Jae-won softens. Because all this time, Jae-won has been saying “Sun-ah isn’t that kind of person,” and now Eun-oh has to come clean that she’s nothing like Sun-ah and never was.

Eun-oh then storms out, but it’s raining, so Jae-won offers to drive her back. Being him, once they’re in the car, he leans back in his chair and says that he doesn’t like driving in the rain. He just stares at her with this goofy smile, and Eun-oh and I have the same thought — that he’s so silly, and yet that’s why we like him. And Jae-won thinks to himself that despite everything, he can’t bring himself to hate Eun-oh.

Eventually, Jae-won does drive Eun-oh back to her place, just in time for her friends to catch them together. They all stand there, staring at each other in silence, not knowing how to take the situation.

So, surely, the friends know something’s up between our couple. If this were real life, maybe it would be better for the two to solve their problems before their friends find out the truth. But come on, in a drama, what fun would that be?

That aside, I do think it’s sweet that Jae-won’s anger is slowly subsiding now that Eun-oh is back in his life. But he can’t be the only one working this relationship. He’s been chasing her long enough, and it’s about time she meet him halfway.

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I'm at the point where I prefer some kdrama serial killers to this couple lmao.

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I feel your frustration 😂

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Belly laugh, right from the get go although @sailorjumun had me giggling over two drunks having a dragonball fight at the dysfunction corral.

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Hahaha! You caught that reference! How silly was that palm blast?

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Ohhhh, I feel the same way 😂 though I must admit I hate Eun-oh more than I hate Jae-won.

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Now think about it, I’ll go with whatever ending, as long as Jae-won is happy, which is what I want 😅. If all he wants is to have Eun-oh with him, no matter how she solves her and their problems, then I am fine with it 😅.

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I think I don't care about the ending anymore...😑 [b]watching just "because"[/b]

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Well, even if I still don't like JaeWon and EunOh together, because I can't understand EunOh's behaviour after the break up, I can see where we are going and at the end of this ride I even may not be mad when they actually end up together.

JaeWon is silly, but sweet and caring person. I may not want him as a boyfriend but he's proving again and again that he deservers better from EunOh, and maybe she's learning now that she can trust JaeWon with the real EunOh (is she really that different SoonAh?

I didn't like that encounter between EunOh and SunYoung. That SunYoung obsession over his ex having female friends is close to pathologic. If she needed Geon to tell her he loved her the way she did, she may have begun by being honest with him. Besides, the fact that she (and almost every single character in the drama) gets drunk every episodes is starting to feel like she should ask for profesional help.

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My thoughts exactly about Sun-young. She needs help and Geon should steer clear of her until she gets it, assuming he wants anything to do with her at all. I have the feeling the drama is playing all of this for laughs, and it's missing the mark for me.

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Agree with everything here. It's a pity cos I think all 6 characters and the basic elements of their relationships are much closer to reality than what we usually get in K-dramas, but Lovestruck's format and tone are simply not up to the job of dealing with them in a satisfactory way.

It's possible Geon isn't as blameless as he's been presented to be so far. He's a kind man, but a relationship is more than just being kind to your partner.

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I don’t think he’s blameless. He failed to make his girlfriend feel loved and safe in their relation. It’s always a two person thing

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I wish the drama had been set in the present with flashbacks to Jeju because it's still hard to like Eun-oh after the torture she's put Jae-won through. Her reveal came so late. They have 2 hours left to convince me they belong together.

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Sun Young's insecurity is so sad because she can see that it is bad, but she does it anyway. That is not healthy at all. I want her to win, but the self sabotage is not it.

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I still don't understand why the show labels her as GirlCrush of all character. she's more like insecure puppy who will bark to people on the road just to hide that she's small and insecure.

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Honestly Eun ho just needs to put some effort into this relationship. She’s not giving what she’s supposed to have gave y’all. She making him feel bad for liking “seon ah” doesn’t really sit right with me either. It’s not his fault he doesn’t know the real you sis. She needs to sincerely apologize.
Kyung jun and rin-i need to have a conversation about the future of their relationship. Rin i doesn’t want to be confined in a routine based life and is very frugal about it while kyung jun is a very straightforward about his lifestyle and work. They need to talk.
Geon’s ex needs to learn how to trust people. That’s it. I actually quite like her but she’s very suspicious about her relationships. I hope all this gets resolved but then kdramas be doing kdrama shit, soo who knows?..

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Totally agree about KJ and RI need of a conversation. They love each other, no wonder, but I don’t see them in the future, because they want different things. And it’s RI the one who’s being totally honest about what she likes and how she wants to live her life, while KJ acts as if he had to be someone else to fit in his girlfriend’s world.

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Exactly I can tell they really love each other but I’m gonna need them to talk especially kyung jun cause he knew what he was getting to with her and I just hope he doesn’t project his values unto her without being honest. Her too of course. Do I see a future? I don’t know. These kind of things are hard to compromise in relationships, but we shall see

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the thing is, Eun oh did not want to continue that relationship (after she decided to lose her holiday persona). Maybe her idea to break it is cruel, but I think in her mind it's better to lie and make people hate you than admitting the truth about yourself. being openly vulnerable in front of other people sometime is harder than just let them thinking whatever they want (damn, I just realize the meaning of Room 19 in Because This Is My First Life).
And it is not she wanted to make him feel bad,it is just he was kind of pushing her. "seon-ah" takes special place in her life. she is the one she wanted to be but she can't, and to have people kept reminding it make her finally burst out. it seems like the world won't accept her unless she is "seon-ah". and jae-won, of all people, keep reminding her that "seon-ah is better than eon-oh".
I understand that she owes him apologize, knowing that her action is greatly affected his life. I don't think she realized when she broke their relationship, it would make so much impact to him. Somehow, after years, I feel like Eon Oh is not quite yet come the her best version (shitty writing or intentional ?) . She is still her old self that eventhough knowing her action is wrong (and repeatedly blame herself for it),can not bring herself to openly dealing with it and apologize. when she knew she's being cheated, instead of confront her ex and let out her frustration, she just run away. I wait until she's really out from her cocoon. But at this point, it seems like the show just round in circle.

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Ugh, I'm struggling so hard because I DO think Eun Oh owes Jae Won a sincere apology. But, and I say this very reluctantly, I don't know how much else she owes him. It really, really pains me to say that. Still, she can't return what he's lost in the past year and, from her words, she doesn't want a relationship with him now. His pressuring her is uncomfortable to watch too. Until she actually says or does something I'm not sure what more can be done.

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Yeah, I was wondering if it was so hard to explain yourself that Eun-oh has kept being (almost) silent for 13 whole episodes, given that she loved Jae-won that much?!

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This is interesting point of view: how much else she owes him beside apology. This is remind me when I watched 500 days of summer, I judged situation from Tom's POV and hated Summer to break him in that way. I felt like she should have been explained it more. But after years and looking back at the movie, I realized what else could be said or what explanation could make break up less painful for anyone. Anyway, the writer better make Eun-oh make up her mind fast. Now Jae Won has known everything, she better decides between redeem her mistake by make a final clean break and move on, or being true to her feeling and take a chance going into relationship with Jae Won as real Eun-oh.

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I think EunOh can do whatever she wants with her life and she doesn’t need to give any explanations about why she did what she did. But... I would support her if I didn’t see her struggles or if she didn’t know from the beginning how sincere JaeWon was about her. The fact that she’s not apologising (a real apologise) and not explaining when she knows the other person is in such pain (and she’s known for a long time) and even so, she stubbornly refuses to give him what he needs, it’s what makes me dislike her.
She’s suffering as much as JaeWon is as a punishment to herself (keeping the rings, keeping the photos, not ya liking about her feelings). She need help. She can never heal until she’s dealt with it.

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The writer really wants to create drama, that's why Eun-oh is a messy character. She loved Jae-won (and it seems she still does), yet, she lied, disappeared, stole his cameras. Yet she never forgot him. Now that they met again, she still avoids him, but has his number with hearts and carries the rings. And yet again, she always rejects him during their conversations. Never apologizes, and never explains her reasons/her feelings. Why drag this stuff??? If she spoke to him from the beginning and explained everything, he would not have been so hurt and she would be able to move on too. Well, this is dramaland, so lets add a bit of drama to spicy things up....

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She really owes a sincere apology. While I think Jae-won is a bit on the obsessive type, I also think his actions are a bit understandable. If she doesn't want to be with him, she needs to say it to his face. But her actions, which she does against her will sometimes, show otherwise. Yes, she was drunk, but she sent lots of messages to Jae-won. Perhaps, he thought that she didn't forget him yet (as he said, she kept his number...). That's why he is pressuring her, because she gives hints that she still likes himt too. Once he knows about the rings, he will push things further.

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It's almost like this writer is taking relationship advice from a teenager who has never been in a relationship but sneaks & reads their older sister's journal.

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I definitely thinks she owes him an apology and closure to what she did to him and it's a kdrama so we all know they're gonna end up together and she still has feelings for this man, so i'm just gonna need her to apologize, especially when he was involved in her facade and was directly hurt by it. It's not his responsibility to reason or not reason with her explanations, that's her job, whether or not she forgives is her business. Do I think she owes her friends an apology for not telling them about her rendevous? absolutely not, that's her business, but when you bring someone else into a lie, they deserve an explanation. Just common human decency I think

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*whether or not she forgives herself*

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Eun-oh lacks common decency. She even said on the rooftop that she would never say to her friends where she went. Quite irresponsible. They thought that something bad happened to her, they even thought about going to the police. Her ex hurt her deeply, but she hurt her friends and Jae-won deeply too (she looks selfish at times). She seriously needs to grow up some bit, since some of her actions are immature.

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KH and RI clearly have different purposes in life. I believe there will be some clash when RI finds out about KH's preferences and desired lifestyle. He needs to be honest with her, because she is honest with him. However, I must say that it should not be a reason for breakup. There are solutions, and they should talk and sort things out.

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Watching this drama is like watching the truck of doom hit the poor pedastrian in slow motion. We can't do anything about it, just sigh a lot.

Until when Eun O will run away? Even in his house, she tried, after the breakfast? She ran away. She never apologized neither...

They all have an issue with alcohol...

JaeWon was a fool but he's the only one who's trying to work on himself.

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I need EunOh apologising and explaining herself as much as JaeWon does.

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Yes, it is high time for that.

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The alchohol issue. Is it that bad in South Korea? People in my country my wine and beer a lot, but I don't see drunk people on a dailybasis...

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*like wine and beer

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I've seen drunk people sleep on the street. I think alcohol is a huge problem in korea. Soju is for Koreans what Vodka is for Russians. Koreans also have a very intense drinking culture with all kinds of rules and games that everyone knows how to play.

The interesting thing is that when I was having a good time in Korea the Soju tasted bitter to me. But when my life was really bitter and frustrating the rice wine aka. Soju tasted really sweet. So when Koreans say the alcohol tastes sweet, it basically means their life is really really hard.

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Thank you for explaining. So basically, soju is the medicine to forget about the problems of life. Korean people really seem to be in constant stress (of course not everyone). But most feel burdened/pressured by work and romantic/familiar life, as if their lives are a drama itself.

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I expect a fake out, and the friends don't know something's up between our couple. Geon's going to assume Eun-oh's meeting was with Jae-won, and Rin-yi's going to buy it. They aren't exactly bright people.

Jae-won really needs to stop saying, "Sun-ah wouldn't do this, Sun-ah wouldn't do that." When he leaned back in his seat with the excuse that he doesn't drive in the rain, I was like, "But you just did." Hopefully, he deciphers Eun-oh's garbled text messages where she admitted she loved him and misses him.

Ra-ra and Bin are the best couple in this drama, no contest. I loved when Ra-ra sat across from Eun-oh and empathized with her having not eaten for a week, and Bin filled her bowl with more noodles. They know the real Eun-oh before her Yoon Sun-ah transformation, yet never pried into her reasons for crying or changing her hair and style.

I mistakenly presumed the hotel hired the real Yoon Sun-ah because of nepotism, but they genuinely liked her eccentricity. Thanks for weecapping, @SailorJumun!

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Sailorjumin is right- It is time for Eun-oh to step up to the plate- and not just step up but swing the bat.

I mean what more can Jae-won do? What more does she need? He came out and took her home for goodness sake. And then insisted in sitting in the car staring at her for a long time.

She has now given Jae-won an explanation - sort of. But then she went silent again and left. And she left out the single most important detail: That she still wants him and hopes that he still wants her even if she is not who she seemed to be back on Jejudo. That is really all it would take to meet him half way. From there they could simply agree that they need to start learning more about each other.

Eun-oh is seeing Jae-won through the lens of her fears and that is unfair to both of them. Eun-oh is not Yoon Sun-ah- but she really isn't the old Eun-oh that she used to be either. She needs to have a little more faith in herself and in Jae-won too.

But in the meantime I am at least as frustrated as anyone else. But I have to admit that there is something entirely real and authentic about this frustrating situation.

As for Sun-young- perhaps her function in this story is to show us a person who is even more trapped in her insecurities than Eun-oh- perhaps permanently so- so that when Eun-oh and Jae-won do finally find their way back to each other it will be more believable. The story of Sun-young and Gaon is even more frustrating than Eun-oh and Jae-won.

Of course, life is full of frustrations. Maybe that is the moral and bottom line of this show.

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I did feel bad for Eun oh in the flashbacks. Nobody deserves that. She find that her bf is cheating on her followed by losing her job and her self confidence and self esteem all in a day..That really sucks. I genuinely felt bad for her when she broke down in Ra Ra's restaurant. But my good feelings for her ends there. Everything else she said in that episode was so bad. She said she regrets what she did to JaeWon but still not ready to do any damage control. We got a confrontation scene again and I was practically yelling at her to open her mouth atleast this time. But no. There comes again the wide eyed blank stare and tears. There were so many portions in the episode where I got pissed off. When Eun Oh belittled Jae won for talking about his private life in television and justifying herself by saying that she has the right to keep her life private. AGREED.But how heartless she has to be to say that in the face of the very person who got heartbroken because of it, without even batting an eyelash? My patience for the character almost ran out there but the reminder that I have wasted a good lot of my time in the show made me go back to it and finish the episode. We also saw a new side of Sun young. Beneath her crazy layer she is just another person who wanted to feel loved. And I wish for the show to explore more about this side of her.

Are we ever gonna get a scene where our leads will finally talk? The show is torturing with yet another red herring. The whole you loved the "fake me not the real me " makes no sense. How is it his fault that he loved the personality he know. He doesn't even knew about Eun Oh, so how can she expect him to say anything else. I sighed, facepalmed and rolled my eyes throughout their talk in his house. Why is it necessary to lie so much ? Why can't they give it a proper closure? And why is it always Jaewon who is making efforts? It's really tiring to see the main subject of the talk being evaded everytime. And the flirting in the car? 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I am officially done with the show now. I can't invest my time when all it does is going on and on in circles without dealing with anything.

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Please accept my heart and respect for your patience and wise words, wandering spot. You again have said what’s inside my head that I can never put into words as clearly as you do. So thank you!

My whole life so far has nothing outstanding but ordinary. My crush in highschool told straight to my face that I am smart but not deep. My crush in college said I usually made very good impressions at early encounters, but those impressions faded quickly overtime. My research advisor had once spent the whole 1h meeting to scold me for not meeting his expectations of me... So in a sense, I felt Eun-oh’s embarassement and desperation when so many bad things happened to her all at once. I understand that she could hate herself at times and lose self-esteem, wishing to be someone else. But all that does not justify her actions towards Jae-won so far, or to be exact, she had every right to choose her own actions, which has never been inspirational to me, that’s why it was a very hard watch for me and I decided not to continue after ep13. I watch dramas in my spare time so that my mind could be refreshed, enlightened, insprired. The situations of the characters may be depressing, but I want to see the character growth. We sure have seen evil, harsh, tough... characters who we can sympathise, even empathise with. Apparently, it’s not someone like Eun-oh.

You know, when Jae-won sat back in the car, saying he doesn’t drive in the rain, staring at Eun-oh with that goofy smile, while Eun-oh has nothing but those blank wide-opened eyes, I wondered why the two A-list actors like JCW and KJW chose to act in such a mediocre and cheesy story with cliched plot. And I was done there. I don’t care about them anymore.

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I personally likes the Eun-oh confession thing. It was the first time she let Jae won to get into her way of thinking as Eun-oh. But I hate that the show did not use the rest of the time to make the MCs converse more. Instead, they cut the car scene short with only staring contest, then him drove her back. what the hell ? I am not frustrated with the characters as much as I am to production team. It feels more and more like Makjang than this new modern city drama that they promised us in the beginning. The premise in the mydramalist is more intriguing than the actual drama. Sigh, knowing that I had been looking for this drama.

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I agreed with EVERYTHING you said. It feels really frustratings to go on circles and circles with an end in sight. Nobody gives a closure, and they keep hurting themselves...Oh sigh...

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*without an end in sight.

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this show could have been better with 60 minutes format. the characters will be well developed and told. The story would not seem to be dragged cause it's about time perspective. Breaking the truth in single hour compare to two days or week separated would not be so much frustrated for viewers. The way they close every episodes with the hang ending feels like 90s show than 2020 show for me. with the two hours left, even if they close it with the MCs back together, it would not amend the bad plot line they have given so far. the interview format is entertaining but take time slot too much. rather than use to talk to camera, it's better to fill that slot to make each characters interact with each other and resolve their issue.
I kinda enjoy eps13 though. the director finally returned back KJW acting, and now I can see "love" in JCW eyes for the first time. The car scene much much better and more believable compare to any beach scenes combined.
The other characters, well, I am not really invested with their story. Kyung-joon and Rin-yi plot seems like shallow version of Won-seok and Hoo-rang story (BTIMFL) in reversed. The same actor playing it not helping get rid this feeling of unoriginality.
I still don't get why Rin-yi doesn't want to get marriage. The show doesn't show much of her reason. It's like, she just doesn't and we have to accept it like it is. Like, whaat ?

Sun-young revelation proves that she is the most poor character written by the show. I hate that I have once again to make comparison with BTIMFL's Suji. While suji is everything GirlCrush trope supposed to be, Sun-young on the other hand is the example of "the other girl" trope that mistakenly labeled as GirlCrush. Sun-young is portrayed to be a cool girl, living her life different and free, but the truth is she just sulky adult that still need man approval in their life. I think people will give her free ticket to do it whatever she wants because she's attractive. I sincerely do not want Geon to get back to her. Maybe if she drops that nonchalant attitude that has been bugged me since the character introduction. Sorry, writer.

Geon, while he's the coolest character, I feel like he's more like support role to everyone story than having his own. I thought he would be Eun-oh fiancee when I watched them living together, but turned out it was made to create misunderstanding plot to the MCs. It would have been great if they just are. it will add some complexity on MC story and logical reason why Eun-oh could not telling the truth.

Ep14 is airing tonight, and I am hoping the MCs will take step forward to resolve their issue instead of bickering.

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It does seem that Geon is a bit pointless as a character. It would be better if he knew Eun Oh's secret and served as a confidant. Maybe if he expressed desire to reunite with Soo Young? I don't know just something. He's just an unfleshed out idea that doesn't really contribute to the story. Same for Soo Young, honestly. The writer could have excluded that couple and nothing would have changed.

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I can't believe Jae-won forgave her after that sorry: "I'm sorry I'm not Yoon Seon-Ah"?? Not even apologizing for deceiving him?! No explanation whatsoever? I can't with this show. It's crazy.

Got to give it to JCW, though. That rescue from the rain, those lines "I'm always cranky but I'm gentle when I fall in love...what are you like when you fall in love?", that stare, creepy (according to @ltung23) smile, the music... okay okay I'm not dropping this. Hahaha!

Hope the friends will find out what happened between them, but based on history, I'm expecting Eun-oh to lie again or Jae-won to save them.

Also, episode 17 is all about the story of Oh Dong Sik, the police officer!

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Haha, I guess you don’t have to apologise if you are as beautiful as KJW and as pathetic as Eun-oh 😅 Many unbelievable things so far, but I don’t care anymore.

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I think ep 17 with Min-ho will be the most interesting of all.

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I can’t believe they have given us two whole episodes of Eun-oh being petulant to Jae-won. In a way she’s right about JW: why is a grown man making such a big fuss over a mere holiday romance? Why does he keep seeking her out to berate her? But even if it seems trivial compared to what she went through with her ex, JW’s pain should not be discounted. And even if his behaviour isn’t perfect (IMO he’s as jealous and obsessive as Sun-young), his acts of kindness should be acknowledged. I feel that her ordeal, while making her a tougher and bolder person, has also hardened her and shut out everyone’s feelings except her own.

Which is why I’m not very happy with the last bit of ep13. I don’t want them to get back together just because they are still “in love”, whatever that means. I want them to explain, politely and reasonably, how exactly they feel about themselves and each other. (Then again, maybe mature, reasonable people aren’t that common in real life…)

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I wish Jae Won can be graduated from being hopeless romantic.
And Eun-oh to be less coward. Is it too much to ask, show?

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Well, I think he seeks her to berate her because she never gave him a full explanation. The scene at the rooftop when she went inside and he followed her shows that. He clearly asked about her intentions, and why she did this and that...He is confused and wants to know the reasons. Why did she avoid? Her lack of sympathy and response are only making things worse.

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Genuinely baffled because I'm not sure episode 12 was needed. We knew what happened with Eun Oh's ex; did we need to see it too? With this shortened format, it seems that time could have been better used advancing the story or highlighting another couple. There was a brief glimpse into Kyung Joon's frustration that would have been nice to explore rather than rehashing Eun Oh's failed engagement. It's also this director's insistence on literally showing every past instance that makes the show feel so circular. One episode forward to one episode back. Like Eun Oh, I want production to have some courage and stop drawing things out. Get us consistently moving forward.

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I don't think they know how to use 30 minutes format effectively. They are using the same formula for an hour drama, but put it in small amount of time. I am not surprised if the last 4 episodes would be rushed and every problem would be tied up quickly. Or maybe they plan to have season 2?

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Yes @junah, I agree with not knowing how to use the 30 minutes effectively. I keep coming back to the thought that the show Friends only had 30 min episodes, but was still able to tell a full story, make me laugh, and keep me emotionally invested in the characters. Of course, that show went on for several seasons, but even just taking one season it would still be superior at story telling. I think Lovestruck would have done better if it stuck to the hour format. It just would have fit better.

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@CS @junah @moko1, have you heard this last episode is supposed to be dedicated to Mino's character's love story? In what world does a guest get a full feature episode? We have entire narratives that haven't been fleshed out but the guest gets an entire episode!?!

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I think they already have ending written since beginning and they sticks to 16 episodes. Extra 1 episodes probably just added last minute. I guess it is related with SHINEE comeback, so the episode some sort of promo for Mino. this is just my best guess, though.

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@evan85 I'm pretty sure that 17th episode is going to be pretty unsatisfying. Nothing about the story lines so far has lead me to believe that we're going to get much of a story in that single 1/2 hour.

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On 07/27/2020, Soompi initially reported "...and there is reportedly potential for additional seasons." So, maybe that's what's at work here. Still, as @junah pointed out, production is not doing great with this format. I think coming off of It's Okay to Not be Okay is a tough transition.

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Yeah I think that's the actual problem of the show. The story makes sense in the usual 2h a week format. Since they gave us all the lovey dovey stuff at the first part of the series, arguably there has to be an "apart time", but seeing all the hateful comments we can literally feel the 1 year waiting period for Jae Won.

But also we don't really understand what this drama is. It's a KakaoTV production. I could watch this drama in my Kakao App if I was in Korea right now. Seeing as it's released around 5 p.m. it's around rush hour when people stand in the subway and watch some dramas on their phone during commuting. Seeing how they have 1.8 million watch count, that's pretty decent for a "cable" drama classification. So I would argue this drama is by normal standards considered successful and works for the korean audience. They also got more tracking and comments on each episode. This is not supposed to be a rich dinner table with 5 different dishes, it's more like a snack on your way home.

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Thanks for the interesting info about the show's KakaoTV context. I can see how the mockumentary format suits this kind of viewing - characters speaking briefly and directly to camera, short scenes to illustrate what they say. (And of course the characters are played by pretty people in gorgeous settings.)

But all this is scuppered by there being SIX characters, at least most of whom have serious issues that need a much more subtle approach. Maybe the show in its current guise would have worked with two couples, or just Eun-oh/Jae-won alone, but right now it seems terribly unbalanced: the EO/JW thread is central but riddled with longueurs (I keep shouting "Get on with it" at them), while the other characters and relationships are a mere glimmer in the background.

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Well, it's one hell of expensive snack with KJW and JCW as main cast.

As for rating, it's also quite high streaming view in netflix, but it's probably for the same reason: we know that the drama is bad, but we had high expectation before it was airing and we can't stop because we love the cast. so we keep our hope by continue watching, wishing the miracle happen. but deep down we realize this drama is sucks. This is my toxic drama relationship. I've experienced this before with some other drama, cough, Moonlovers (beanies were going crazy , comment section could up to 300 comments per 1 episode recap, lol. Good ol' time.)

From my observation this weekend (gosh, I wish this whole quarantine will end up soon so I have better thing to do), people who give good review for this drama is either:
-JCW fan that would eat up everything he's in or by simply showing his face
-Viewer that easily amused by anything Korean
-Western viewer who think this is cute and comparable to romcon sitcoms
-People who think good cinematography and pretty face can replace storyline
-People who just see it as web drama, low expectation
-Teenager (cause they don't really have much experience how relationship between late 20s or early 30s something couple supposed to be. Kids, this is not how you communicate as an adult.)
-Viewer who associates "not typical kdrama" with "exceptionally good drama"

People who don't like:
-Kdrama veteran who don't give a damn about the nice setting and good lighting
-Viewer who had been promised "a realistic portrayal of young people who pursue romance and happiness, while struggling to get by in a busy, competitive urban environment", but instead got 2 rich guys who run family business , 1 writer that never seems struggling with deadline, 1 marketer who regardless jobless but have good connection since she befriended and a love interest of chaebols , 1 teacher who's never seen complain about her salary,1 young adult who only prefer part time job and has no plan for future or marriage even though she's almost 30 living in expensive city.
Got to tell ya, struggling and realistic has new meaning in this drama.
-Viewer who loves Because This Is My first Life and expected they would get the same feeling with this drama

High rating (by any means) means the production team won't lose money, so it's good for them. But if they want to put KJW and JCW and the writer who gave heart-warming story Romance is The Bonus Book, I think they owe themselves to live up to their standard, which I know is can be better than they gave us now.

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Puh, please don't put people into boxes. I can be a kdrama veteran and can still enjoy a drama despite its downfalls. I think we shouldn't belittle the reason things are popular because there's always a valid reason why they are watchable, even if we don't agree. Everyone has their own reason to watch or not watch something. And if only JCW's face makes a drama watchable for a lot of people then that alone is pretty powerful in the industry.

Also I am not that sure krama was ever perceived or described as 'realistic'. If I see 'poor' people in kdramas they seem to be still pretty well off - especially in romcoms - compared to what i've seen in real life. I never expect my korean romcoms to be realistic though. If anything the lovestory is usually the most unrealistic thing about it. The only 'realistic' drama I have seen was Misaeng and even that got a bit cheesy at the end...

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I take that back. Misaeng is obviously not a romcom. Maybe Flower Boys Next Door can be considered as semi-realistic...? Or One Spring Night? Although that's not really a romcom. Run On is passable. Soulmate could be considered 'realistic'. I don't think we run into realistic korean romcoms very often though.

Anyways I think there has to be a certain amount of things that make a drama work for me to watch it till the end. Those variables can be different for everyone. I personally never finished a bunch of highly popular dramas because I couldn't stand to watch them anymore (like Moonlovers, or Heirs). But I still think we should respect that it was very fun for a lot of people, whatever the reason may be.

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JCW, imo, has done really well in this drama. He's really stretched himself and I can see his evolution here. I would say the same thing for KJW as well. And that's with the writer's not giving her much to work with in terms of dialogue. The ensemble has been great too.

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@moko1 I was not judging anyone taste, that's not even the point. I was talking about typical reviewer who would likely give this drama 5/5 and compare to reviewer who give this drama lower rating , and all based on observation on reviewers in several drama forum (the list can be longer). Don't like the fact, it is okay.

Any Kdrama veteran can enjoy whatever they want, but kdrama veteran who are looking more into story and character development would likely give this drama low rating.

Realistic in kdrama should not blindly perceived as complete portraying of real life. While the whole plot line still can be unrealistic, kdrama can still have a fair share of its realistic aspect, such as by making characters react to situation in a way people react in real life, by making character showing various human trait that flawed, complex, and often contradictory, by putting characters in life experience that viewer can easily relate to, by highlighting social issue (like my Id is gangnam beauty), etc.
Many kdramas lately are adapting these aspects and offering more option in slice-of-life story department compare to old rich guy-poor girl story. At least for the last couple years you can see rom-com kdramas move towards everyday life story, and the characters also become more relatable (many come from working to middle class, and less chaebols).

The premise of LSITC, claimed itself to portray realistic people struggling in the city while dealing with their love life. it is fair enough to say some viewers might expect to see more story in their work life, but later on find that none of the characters to be seen have any struggle for living in most expensive city like Seoul; not with rent, not with minimum wage, not with career insecurity (these 3 are the most likely real life issue at 30s something man/women). When most viewers fail to relate themselves with the characters, the aspect of realism also disappear. although, the love story of the MC for me quite realistic, only the problem is their action toward their problem it is not like many people I know in life would be (and you can see how many beanies feel frustrated here).

@evan85 It is not even about JCW act, but the fact that there is difference between saying the drama is good and the actor is good.

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I understand if you dislike the drama, but putting down those who do like it as being "kdrama veteran who don't give a damn", undiscerning JCW fangirls, and people who only like it because they liked a previous drama from this team etc?

That was a completely unnecessary and rude set of generalisations, no matter whether you say you're "not judging".

Dislike it if you want, but there's no need to make such pronouncements about the people who do like it.

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Why every single character is very annoying ! Especially women are more then annoying :) Is it on purpose? May be I am missing something !

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Reminds me of the cartoon Who Framed Roger Rabbit where the sexpot character said (paraphrased), "I'm not really like this, I'm just written that way".

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I want these three couple to have serious talk about their past and future.
If we see objectively none of the couple will work for long time. Just have a talk and avoid future suffering.

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The stories in this drama seem to be about deep dysfunction, personality disorder and profound lack of self-esteem and self-worth. Eun-oh can't hold a job, win a contract, keep a boyfriend or gain new friends. Not clear why this is the case (maybe this will be revealed later or maybe because she is negatively influenced by dull friends), she seems to have supportive parents, who likely also support her financially (the apartment is in her name, she seems to fully pay for it, and she has a vehicle -- her parents must be paying for all of this). And she is the only one among the friends who is trying to change things and in a moment of desperation invents a new personality. Although it is likely not only the desperation, it was also the new environment (beach) and new friends (fun-loving exciting Ra-ra and Bin). I understand why she decided not to carry on with the relationship with Jae-won in Seoul, even through she likes him a lot -- she can not maintain her new personality in her old environment and with her old friends. The dreariness of the apartment and lackluster of her friends drag her down, and Jae-won, like her previous boyfriends, would quickly grow tired of her. She has no hope that the relationship can endure and not strength to break up with her friends. Likewise, Rin-yi is infantile, shirking responsibility, living in the moment and adopting behavior of a bum. She can't hold a job, take up a career, get into a university, plan for the future. Geon lives off Eun-oh, can't get new friends or a decent girlfriend - what does he have to share with world, who would read his novels? Sun-young has profound insecurities and abandonment fears. Kyung-joon has such a low self-esteem that he can't bring himself to date a quality woman and instead devotes all his time to gray and dull Rin-yi.

The only 'bright' spot is Jae-won, a romantic, perfectionist (just look how long he is taking to design those houses), dreamer, a reader of obscure books about Eastern Europe and the Baltics, a surfer and surfboard maker. I think that what he is trying to preserve and continue is the perfect idyllic romantic relationship that started off so dreamlike. I think Eun-oh realizes that Jae-won is not so much after her (or not just after her) but after the romance they had. If his relationship with Eun-oh were to end, what does he have to look forward to romantically? Boring common blind dates, clubs, bars -- where's the romance in that? Maybe someone would be Ok with saying: "Yeah, we were set up by a matchmaker on a blind date and our romance began flourishing". But I would bet that everyone wants a truly romantic story. So, the solution is to find the girl and continue with the romance if she still likes him. In fact, her disappearance only adds romantic adventure. Jae-won is forgiving and giving and quickly forces the issue once he concludes that Eun-oh still likes him.

Going forward, the three kindergarten friends need to split up (and I...

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think they will split up in the drama). Eun-oh needs to pick up where she left off with Jae-won. She likes him, and he has a good influence on her. In a way, does it really matter whether he is after her or the romance -- she and the romance are inseparable. They can be happy together. Rin-yi needs to start taking responsibilities and putting her life together, or Kyung-joon needs to find enough self-worth to leave her and start dating a quality woman. Geon and Sun-young need to sort out their issues. No one get lovestruck in the city, the city is full of only dysfunction and dreariness.

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But would you have relationship with someone who likes you for the idea of you or who like you for who you are?
If I were Jae Won, I would start to question myself, do I love her or I just love the memories of her ?
Jae Won falls for this girl for a reason which seemed to be her alter ego, but now the reason has gone. Why would he or viewers be convinced that he is still in love with her the same ? I mean, the show never really gave Jae-won enough time to re-evaluate their feeling. It seems like he will take her back in instance as long as Eun-oh say she still loves him. Unless they are talking about their issue in mature way and start to know each other first before decide to get back together, I said give it 6 months and they will break up again after they realize they are not exactly the same person they fall in love with.

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In the first episode, Jae Won talked about what he first liked about Eun-oh, and it is just pure chemistry: breath, smell, hair, etc. And she still smelled and looked pretty much the same when they met again (although he did note that she gained some weight). I think research in psychology has found that when people are in love, they overlook problems in the person they love. But, it is not just that he is attracted to her physically, they also created a perfect romance. How they met, how they fell in love and what they did at that beach resort, everything has been perfect. Who would want to stop that and just attribute all of this to a summer fling. Jae won likes both real Eun-oh and the romance she helped him create.

They do not have issues, she has issues. Jae Won tells exactly under what circumstances he stops pursuing Eun-oh - if she is living with or dates another guy. Short of this, he wants to know why they can't carry on. Someone mentioned here, she could be terminally ill (like in Y tu mamá también - although that movie was vulgar) or maybe her parents wanted her to marry a wealthy suitor. The real reason seems to be Eun-oh's developmentally stunted friends and her misguided loyalty to them. Who still lives with their kindergarten friends in the late 20s? What is with all the childish rituals? When Jae Won visits Eun-oh's place, we can see a difference between an adult and not-so-much-adults. Were Eun-oh to start dating Jae-won again, her little world with the friends would be finished.

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Of course Eun-oh is actually madly in love with Jae-won, so we can justify JW's pursuit of her by assuming that he somehow just knows that she wants him.

But what worries me is this: bearing in mind that she broke off all contact with him, phoned him to say she'd stolen his cameras and was dumping him, kept running away from him and was extraordinarily rude to him when they met in Seongsu-dong - should he really have continued pursuing her? Even if she loves him, isn't terminally ill and is single, she has the right to reject him. It doesn't matter what her reason is: no means no, and continued pursuit in such a case would be verging on harassment.

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He did not continually pursue her. He could not find her until the recent couple of episodes. "I stole $10K worth of your cameras" is not a 'I don't want to see you'. It is an invitation to be found. I would be immediately worried what else she stole (credit card #s, identity, etc). His reaction to report her to the police was the right one. (When he caught her, and it turned out that she was not a "hardened criminal" - i.e., no criminal record, he allowed her to go). Then he learned from the photo developer place that she developed their photographs. (I can totally see this being realistic -- in the age of digital photography, how many places still develop film?) Why did she do that? She could've just called him and said: "Look, I don't want to see you anymore, pick up your cameras, I want to get a picture or two of us for memories" (the last part sounds weird) and be done with it. The show was explicit why he pursued her: she did not break up with him properly, and she did not, and that was a giveaway that she was not sure she wanted to break up (which the show made explicit from the beginning).

In the case of rape, 'no' means 'no', but human relationships are much more complex, people change their mind all the time, people make hasty decisions and regret. There was a chance that she changed her mind once they met. And when they met at her apartment (Seoul contact #2, the police box is #1), he lost interest in her. I think he was honest when he said he does not want to work with her. But then she starts leading him on by getting drunk and texting him in the middle of the night, he gets her when she is all blacked-out (contact #3), she sobers up and tells him, let's end it!? Finally, when her male friend tells her to work on the proposal for JW's company because she will not have money to pay for their apartment, she meekly obliges. If anyone has mental issues in this show, it would be Eun-oh. JW needs to seriously consider whether all that romance is worth being with someone who easily falls under the influence of others and makes poor decisions.

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He did not continually pursue her. He could not find her until the recent couple of episodes. "I stole $10K worth of your cameras" is not a 'I don't want to see you'. It is an invitation to be found. I would be immediately worried what else she stole (credit card #s, identity, etc). His reaction to report her to the police was the right one. (When he caught her, and it turned out that she was not a "hardened criminal" - i.e., no criminal record, he allowed her to go). Then he learned from the photo developer place that she developed their photographs. (I can totally see this being realistic -- in the age of digital photography, how many places still develop film?) Why did she do that? She could've just called him and said: "Look, I don't want to see you anymore, pick up your cameras, I want to get a picture or two of us for memories" (the last part sounds weird) and be done with it. The show was explicit why he pursued her: she did not break up with him properly, and she did not, and that was a giveaway that she was not sure she wanted to break up (which the show made explicit from the beginning).

Human relationships are very complex, people change their mind all the time, people make hasty decisions and regret. There was a chance that she changed her mind once they met. And when they met at her apartment (Seoul contact #2, the police box is #1), he lost interest in her. I think he was honest when he said he does not want to work with her. But then she starts leading him on by getting drunk and texting him in the middle of the night, he gets her when she is all blacked-out (contact #3), she sobers up and tells him, let's end it!? Finally, when her male friend tells her to work on the proposal for JW's company because she will not have money to pay for their apartment, she meekly obliges. If anyone has mental issues in this show, it would be Eun-oh. JW needs to seriously consider whether all that romance is worth being with someone who easily falls under the influence of others and makes poor decisions.

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@nicholas In case you think I'm defending Eun-ho because I like the character or approve of her conduct, I should make it clear that I think she is selfish, thoughtless and not terribly bright. But no matter how true and wonderful their relationship was in Yangyang, she does have the right to break up with him back in Seoul. There's no doubt that she did it very badly - abruptly and hurtfully - but she did it unequivocally. But even after all the repeated "no's", he kept pursuing her - not directly of course, since he didn't know where she was, but by haunting Cheonggyecheon, reporting her to the police repeatedly, and demanding a response via the reality show interviewer. She should have taken much more care with his feelings, but he should have taken no for an answer earlier. After all, according to many comments here and elsewhere, he's better off without her.

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@knewbie
"she does have the right to break up with him back in Seoul."
Yes, I agree.

"but she did it unequivocally ... But even after all the repeated "no's"
I disagree. She did not clearly end it. It was a clumsy and stupid attempt at ending it, because she was embarrassed that her previous fiancé dumped her and worried that once Jae-won finds out about it, he will break up with her. She lied that she wanted to end it and why she wanted to end it, and it was easy for him to figure out that she lied. In the last episode, he was laughing at the whole idea of "finding herself" and said that Eun-oh and Seon-a are the same person to him, in other words she did not create a completely new personality (except for the name) at the beach (and how could she? -- she is not that capable). And they did have issues already at the beach, like when she hesitated to meet him when he asked her, etc. I take it he figured out that she is a liar and a coward, so what?, he can live with it (unlike her previous boyfriend) and she is lucky. This is his right, although I have my reservations as to whether he will be completely happy. My view was that someone like Yoo-mi would be better for him, but he did not meet her - it is a different drama.

In the latest episodes, when JW told her he did not care about her previous engagement, she changed her tune, Then he started ignoring her, and she did not like that altogether.

"he kept pursuing her"
How about this, her psychological state demanded that she end the relationship and his psychological state demanded that he at least finds out why she ended the relationship.

"he should have taken no for an answer earlier."
No, he had no obligation of this sort and broke no rules. There was no clear 'no' -- for every 'no', there was big 'yes'.

Drunk people are honest.

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@ NN registered: agreed! Eun-oh had every right to break up with Jae-won, had she done it with sincerity and decency. Jae-won deserved that much.

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@nicholas "It was a clumsy and stupid attempt at ending it, because she was embarrassed that her previous fiancé dumped her and worried that once Jae-won finds out about it, he will break up with her. She lied that she wanted to end it and why she wanted to end it…"

Where did you get the stuff about EO being worried about JW finding out she was dumped? AFAIK that was not one of her reasons for dumping JW. If she was embarrassed about anything, she was embarrassed about JW discovering she was different from Sun-ah.

If you attempt X badly, and you give false reasons for X, you might still be serious about X. E.g. someone who wants to leave their partner but is afraid of hurting them too much might give a false reason (“it’s not you, it’s me” or something like that) and end up sounding very unconvincing. But that doesn’t mean they don’t really want to break up.

Just because you don’t buy EO’s reason for breaking up doesn’t mean she wasn’t serious about it. I’m not the biggest fan of the “finding yourself” stuff either, but after all the crap she’d gone through, why is it so hard to believe that she needed time to sort out her life and her feelings? Also, finding oneself isn’t necessarily “creating a new personality” - EO found herself by discovering that the Sun-ah persona is as much a part of her true self as the old EO.

"Drunk people are honest.”

Perhaps, but more importantly they lack control. Drunk EO told JW stuff that she wouldn’t have told him had she been sober.

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1. She didn't just say she stole the cameras during the phone call, she said she was breaking up with him and that she'd only hung out with him because she wanted his cameras.

2. As we all agree, she is actually crazy about him so it's no surprise that she got all those photos to moon over. But on a conscious level, she certainly did not want him to know that she had got the pictures developed for herself.

3. Prior to the drunk texting, Eun-oh said no several times: during the phone call, outside the police station, via the reality show interviews, etc. And some of the language she used was anything but ambiguous. In ep8, she said "forget me / I'm just a terrible woman / I loved him but two months is enough / he's boring / I got sick of him", and his response was "but I'm a great catch". Also, she was drunk when she texted him, and I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of drunk women intentionally "leading people on".

4. Didn't she agree to try for the job at JW's company because she couldn't find a way to justify NOT doing so? Just as you think that JW genuinely didn't want to work with her, so I believe that she genuinely didn't want to work with him either. But neither of them knew how to explain it to their friends. Kyung-joon couldn't see why JW would refuse to consider O3. Even the female colleague presented reasons for O3 being a viable choice. And Geon of course wanted Eun-oh to try for the job for both personal and financial reasons. How were EO and JW to say no to all that? If EO "meekly obliges", then so did JW.

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@knewbie
"How were EO and JW to say no to all that? If EO "meekly obliges", then so did JW."

Well, Eun-oh could say something like: "Hey Geon, get a part-time job and help me pay the extra rent, I am working on a very important project, so no work with Jae-won".

Geon passed Eun-oh's work samples to KJ without telling Eun-oh, and Jae-won did not know whose work it was when it arrived on his desk. Jae-won changed his mind after Eun-oh texted him drunk, stayed at his place and they had a chit-chat in the morning before meeting her friends -- all in all, this convinced him that she is not over him and is just embarrassed because of the previous engagement (he knew his story from KJ by then).

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But how is EO supposed to pretend to have an important project when she obviously had no work and was desperate for some? That was precisely why Geon tried to fix her up with JW via KJ in the first place. Also, as someone else on this thread has said, there is no indication that Geon is freeloading. Why on earth would EO support him financially? This isn't a soap opera and she isn't secretly in love with him or whatever.

I repeat: EO loves JW, and JW is right to suspect that she loves him, but even then she still has the right to reject him.

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@knewbie
"But how is EO supposed to pretend to have an important project when she obviously had no work and was desperate for some? "

The same way she pretended moments earlier that she and Jae-won had an early morning meeting or the way she claimed in the police box that Jae-won gave her the cameras or the way she pretended to steal his cameras. Here's a scenario - Geon: "landlord just called, rent up 20%"; Eun-oh: "just received an e-mail about a swell project, can't do work with Jae-won; BTW, Geon, your rent is up 20%". I mean she had to increase Geon's rent in line with the increase in the overall rent, right?

"Why on earth would EO support him financially?" Because they are friends from the kindergarten and because he was her first love (per the final episode). But, Ok, he pays for a room (let's hope at a real market rate), so what, this does not change much. Why can't he get his own place and start dating? There was always something creepy about the guy, and by taunting Sun-young in the final episode, he revealed himself to be a complete jerk.

"she still has the right to reject him"
Of course, she has the right to dump him, I have never argued otherwise, but this needs to be done 'like normal people do it" (for a lack of a better phrase) with conviction and finality. And until she did that, he had the right to pursue her. Her attempt at dumping him was not normal (she was living with him like a husband and wife for a month at the beach to steal his cameras??? -- does this even make sense?), convincing or final. The fact that she happily went back to him (the roof scene) is the most obvious proof that her decision was not final.

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@nicholas "The same way she pretended moments earlier that she and Jae-won had an early morning meeting or the way she claimed in the police box that Jae-won gave her the cameras or the way she pretended to steal his camera"

Geon couldn’t have double-checked her lie about the morning meeting; the cops couldn’t have proved that she had stolen the cameras, especially with JW suddenly withdrawing the accusation. But Geon lives with EO and knows for a fact that she didn’t have work. Unless she had gone to the trouble of faking a new project, he’d eventually have found out that she had lied about it.

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@knewbie
" But Geon lives with EO and knows for a fact that she didn’t have work."

He only knows what she tells him. And she was getting meetings and competed in project all the time. Note, at that time, Jae-won's company did not offer her a contract, she was going to compete for the contract at his company. She could I am competing for something else and compete, because she has to, may be she would even get it.

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@nicholas My point is precisely that, being her flatmate, he is privy even to stuff that she doesn't tell him. Also, it looks like you need to be picked even to just compete for a project. Before JW's company evaluated all the applicants, JW asked the female employee whether O3 was worth putting into the pool for consideration. So it isn't that easy to get one's foot in the door; without the intercession of someone like Kyung-joon, EO might not be able to compete for projects elsewhere that easily. According to Geon, she had prepared a lot of materials but didn't get many opportunities to use them (hence his request for KJ's help).

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@knewbie
"being her flatmate, he is privy even to stuff that she doesn't tell him"

He did not know that she was Seon-a until she told him. She has her room. Geon saw those papers only because she left them in the common room.

"So it isn't that easy to get one's foot in the door;" without a benefactor.
I have never said that it was easy. It is very hard, and especially when no one helps you. And it will get much worse before it gets better. The difference between Rin-i and Eun-oh is that Rin-i is just struggling, while Eun-oh is struggling toward something. If you don't try, you will never know if it could work out.

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@nicholas I didn’t say he was privy to everything, I just meant that your statement that he only knows what she tells him is not always true. As you pointed out, he saw the materials because they share space, so he is privy to some stuff that she doesn’t tell him.

I didn’t say you said it was easy. I was refuting your claim that she could just compete in any project in lieu of the one at JW’s company

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@knewbie
"Where did you get the stuff about EO being worried about JW finding out she was dumped?"

Beginning episode 12, she is flushed up worried how much Jae-won knows about her. Somewhere else (can't remember now), she wonders how much KJ told Jae-won about her. Her reaction when Jae-won brought up the issue with her previous engagement. And explicitly in Eps 15, confession to the friends, she say: "I did not want Jae-won to find out why I ended up in Yangyang in the first place", i.e., she did not want him to know about the broken engagement.

I think Jae-won had the same hypothesis as mine that Eun-oh was worried that he would have reservations about her once he learned about the prior engagement. Given that she is a coward ("Telling truth is so hard" - confession to the friends) and would never bring it up herself, he decided to tackle the issue head-on and remove it off the table.

I think Eun-oh likely intended to carry on with Jae-won in Seoul (and eventually tell him the truth), but when she returned she found that Geon moved in without asking her on the pretense of keeping the flat warm and RI returned from London on the pretense of worrying about her, KJ was there as RI's boyfriend; now she was worried that not only Jae-won but also her friends and Jae-won's family (via KJ) will judge her. Maybe she was even trying to protect Jae-won from embarrassment in front of his family, i.e., from KJ telling Jae-won's family about her past.

Note that she has the confession with the friends after she cleared with Jae-won that he can handle the cousin (in sexual tension filled end of Eps 14) and Jae-won tells her that her past matters little to him. Now, the road to him was open for her. All she needed to do is to tell her friends and sort of 'apologize' to Jae-won (she promised to tell him the truth going forward).

"(“it’s not you, it’s me” or something like that)"
There was not for second a question of whether she liked him. But she did give a 'it's not you, it's me' routine to her friends in the confession, and naturally she and Jae-won summarily dump Geon, RI and the cousin in the final episode -- a perfect ending.

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I agree that EO changing her mind so quickly at the end is a clear indication that she wanted to be with him eventually. But that doesn’t negate the fact that she was genuinely unable to face him earlier, because he said if she was a different person she wouldn’t be Sun-ah.

Two months of happiness is nothing – I know two women who dated their respective men for over a decade, got married, then got unceremoniously dumped after 1-2 years. They believed that getting married – legally married – meant that their husbands loved them, and couldn’t understand why they had been dumped.

But does that mean they should hang on to the men for dear life? It’s true that the husbands did something pretty final – filed for divorce. But just as JW kept pursuing EO, the women could have refused to accede to divorce because they were not convinced that their husbands really wanted to leave them.

Well, actually lots of people hang on to their departing partners for dear life (like JW hung on to his idea of EO) and no one can stop them. But if we allow that person X has no right to break up with person Y because X can’t do it properly/ graciously / convincingly, we end up with two questions:

(1) Who gets to judge what is a convincing breakup? X or Y or their friends or…? EO believed she broke up with JW decisively, cos what could be more decisive than presenting yourself as a cold-hearted opportunistic floozy who got surfing lessons, a surfboard and great sex from the guy then nicked his cameras at the end of it all? We know she still loved him, but until the night he went to the rooftop party even JW didn’t know for sure whether she loved him or was just a horrible person.

(2) What exactly does “no right to break up with Y” mean? if you can’t do it properly, then you are not allowed to do it and MUST remain in the relationship? Cowards like EO aren’t allowed to end relationships? I’m not EO’s biggest fan, but I'm pretty disturbed that so many viewers believe that her earlier rejection of JW carries no weight.

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@knewbie
"something pretty final – filed for divorce."
Filing for divorce is not final. It could be just a way for a spouse to alert the other spouse to the seriousness of the situation. I am pretty sure it is not uncommon for divorce filing to be reversed.

" Who gets to judge what is a convincing breakup?"

I think the break up is final when everyone involved agrees that it is final. Everyone would be the couple + parents, friends, etc. So, when we break up, we need to make all involved to accept the break-up, otherwise those who do not accept it (the former romantic interest, parents, friends) will try to get the couple back together. We can try to argue that Eun-oh sent enough signals to stop Jae-won from pursing her, but this argument amounts to a mere attempt at making a social norm and then forcing Jae-won to follow this social norm. In other words, we will argue that Jae-won must accept the finality of the break-up because in his situation it is socially prescribed or ethically proper or some such to do so. Jae-won, as the smart guy that he is, will tell us to take a hike, rightly so. The writer of this show tells us through Seon-Yeong: "Relationship are easy to start and difficult to end".

BTW, Eun-oh may be herself guilty of not recognizing and accepting break up signals from her former fiancé Kang Min-Soo. That's why she may have ended up finding him with the other woman. Kang Min-Soo said something about signals, and Eun-oh not recognizing them.

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@nicholas I’m amazed that you believe that a proper breakup requires so many people to believe in it, because I know of many that weren’t even mutually agreed upon. Your idea of a breakup sounds like a logistical nightmare. I’d hate to have to announce my breakup to all the people who might have an emotional stake in my relationship, let alone getting their permission to do so. Joking aside, why on earth should my friend’s or even my parent’s disapproval matter if I really wanted to leave my partner? And if anyone thinks they can get us to reconcile they can go ahead and try, or – better still – mind their own business.

I’m happy to accept that divorce can be overridden: that would mean that divorce is just one of the “social norms” that you mention. So according to your definition of a proper breakup, no one can ever leave their partner as long as the partner refuses to adhere to the “social norm” invoked, even if the social norm happens to be divorce. But that is simply not true. For a start, divorce exists and does what it sets out to do most of the time – i.e. allows people to leave their partners, whether or not their partners agree to it. In fact, countless people have been very successfully dumped without having agreed to it (hence the existence of words like ‘dump’ or ‘jilt’). More worryingly, your definition would be extremely popular with, say, abusive spouses who refuse to grant divorces to their partners.

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@knewbie
"Your idea of a breakup sounds like a logistical nightmare. "

And it could be. People have ways to mitigate this (e.g., couples take time before announcing themselves as a couple and introducing each other to their families and close friends), but once in a while, things go wrong (personal example, my paternal grandmother had someone else in mind for my father and never truly accepted my mother - I heard about this from both my mother and my grandmother - lots of bitterness). Normally, parents and friends defer to the couple to decide, and, in most cases, people have no strong feelings one way or the other and accept what the couple decides. If there are parents or friends who object, then the couple can still go ahead with their decision, but they would need to manage the dissenters.

"no one can ever leave their partner as long as the partner refuses to adhere to the “social norm” invoked, even if the social norm happens to be divorce."

So, in the cases of exceptional importance, such as divorce, the collective wisdom of the people decided to codify social norms in the form of the law that would guide dissolution of this arrangement. My understanding of the S Korea divorce law is that if one of the parties does not want a divorce and this party did not do anything to offend marriage, there is no way to obtain divorce. If the party that offended the marriage (e.g., had an affair) files for divorce, it would be immediately dismissed. I am watching now Marriage Lyrics and Divorce Music. This gives some idea how these things take place in S. Korea. In the West, the so-called no fault divorce allows the spouse that wants out to get out. The law also stipulates that the marital property is divided equally. In reality, however, wealthy men and also now women in the West require their women and men to sign prenuptial and postnuptial agreements that can stipulate EVERYTHING: how many children the couple will have, how much weight the spouse can gain, spousal allowance, etc, and how much money the poorer spouse will get should the couple divorce. I guess it is easy to say that the West now considers the marriage to be a business contract that exchanges cohabitation, companionship, sex and childbearing for payment, but maybe there is more to it.

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@nicholas Your father’s case is not a breakup (heaven forbid). Marriage is a slightly more simple matter. You yourself quoted Sunyoung’s declaration that getting together is easy.

Re: divorce. Again, you’re preaching to the converted. Of course in many less enlightened situations, especially in the past, getting a divorce is a tricky thing, and in many cases much more advantageous for the man. I’m only interested in situations where divorce is a relatively easier process. According to you, even someone who has managed to separate legally from their partner might still be stuck in the relationship simply because their partner refuses to let go. I repeat: that is simply untrue.

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Idk how but im getitng more and more mad at EO to even feel pity for her backstory... like, ok she didnt like him saying he liked SA but he meant he liked the person the "real" her and then I remember her saying something along the lines that JW brought out the real her/the person she wanted to be in YangYang and that all her feelings were real so whats her deal?!!! If all your feelings were real and blahblah, all you had to do is be honest and tell him your real name is the only fake thing but that your feelings were sincere instead of running away, making him and yourself- miserable and acting like you did nothing wrong... theres too little episodes left for the amount of work this couple needs to find a healthy balance and we have to see the other couples too! Hope they dont rush things -I would have liked to see more of SY, why she feels the need to control her partner's friends, why she feels her partner's dont like her when theyre obviously together- but i only see one couple surviving.

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Yes I don’t know why the morning waking up in his house, she didn’t say “I am sorry about everything, now would you listen to my story?” and told him how she truly felt.

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I hate that this show just started getting good, with 2 episodes left smh

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I really disliked this show intensely from the get go. But it got under my skin and I couldn't figure out why. These last couple of episodes have explained so much about why the women are behaving the way they are and frankly, I like all of them better than I did at first. It doesn't matter that their reasons are immature and half baked, young people are immature and half baked, it's part of the deal.

What I've realized is that this show is exploring the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope and I don't think I've ever seen that before in a K-Drama. Granted, I don't watch them all, but I can't think of any straight up MPDG's.

The fact that Eun-Oh isn't a real MPDG, that she's trying out a different personality is a really interesting twist on the MPDG genre. Thinking of it this way also helps me make peace with Jae-Won. He's a jerk, but he's a jerk who has bought into a fantasy person hook, line, and sinker and he's mad as hell.

Truthfully, I like how petty some of the characters are being. I also think that both Rin-Yi and Eun-Oh have internalized some pretty serious life lessons about what happens when women with no money mix up with men who have money.

That is all.

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Same here! It's weird because we've seen so many dramas where the leads behave HORRIBLY to each other (*ahem, any Lee Kyung-hee drama*) but let the treatment not be framed as a melo tragedy and it's interesting how the reaction changes. Especially when it's the female characters who are visibly flawed.

I think you hit the nail on the head about Rin-yi and Eun-oh and their attitudes to men with money as a way to retain independence.

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Man, reading the comments is a real trip, I feel like I'm living in the Upside Down because I actually love this drama (first time ever I've truly bought Ji Chang-wook in a role since it requires him to do more than be swoony), and I love Kim Ji-won's portrayal of Lee Eun-oh/Yoon Seon-ah too. As for her treatment of him.....I just have to say, if I shipped the OTP in Nice Guy, Eun-oh and Jae-won are NOTHING compared to that level of dysfunction.

And this might sound weird but getting as far as ep 13, I can actually follow Eun-oh's thought process for doing what she did, both after the dumping/job loss and after going back to her regular life. It's a warped kind of logic, but it also follows from what happened as a result of getting dumped from her initially confirmed job offer and cheated on by her bf, she found Bin and RaRa kind and understanding enough to just let her be a different kind of person for a while (and it's very true to life that their kindness made her cry after heaven knows how long she spent being numb). Not the 'rejected' Lee Eun-oh who got booted from a job offer she did everything correctly for, and who got cheated on by a bf who didn't even have the decency to pretend he felt bad about what he did, but cool and free-spirited Yoon Seon-ah who has no such problems, and has a very attractive man falling basically head over heels for her within a day of meeting. But that life and that personality are only an illusion/temporary reprieve from who she is, so she toughens up by leaving them behind and (crucially) she's still wounded enough to believe dumping him was the right thing to do.

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And from what I can see, Eun-oh's actions following her departure from Yangyang aren't the result of whimsy or random stubbornness - what it is, is a need for control.

It's v clear she still loves Jae-won, and also that she fully intends to keep pushing him away despite those feelings, and the only way to read it, for me, is that she was willing to cut him out no matter how much it hurt her to do so (side effect of actually falling for the guy) because she'd rather be the one doing the cutting, than take the chance that Jae-won will turn out to be another guy who'll dump "boring" real Eun-oh because he preferred cool, free-spirited 'Yoon Seon-ah', whom he's still hung up on and who wasn't the real her at all (in all fairness to her, he was a complication she didn't anticipate when she assumed that name). It hurts her to do that to him, but that's the only way for her to have any control over this (which tells you a lot about how badly the ex situation messed her up).

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Yes to all of this.

Eun-oh's dilemma makes me think of the song What Did I Have That I Don't Have from On a Clear Day. She knows she loves Jae-won, but from everything he'd said, she also knows he wouldn't love the real her.

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