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Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

Romance is in the air and confessions abound everywhere. But it’s not all sunshine and rainbows for some of our characters who live in a world outside of that which society deems as normal. With only a handful of people who truly understand them, how do these characters walk the fine line of staying true to themselves without upsetting the societal expectations we are all governed by?

 
EPISODES 9-10 WEECAP

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

We get a Pied Piper-like case this week, and our defendant is BANG GU-PPONG a.k.a. Mr. Fart (guest appearance by Gu Kyo-hwan). As the self-proclaimed Commander-in-Chief of the Children’s Liberation Army, Gu-ppong diverts an after-school academy bound bus to the mountains for a fun day out, and he gets arrested for kidnapping the minors. Young-woo and Min-woo (ugh!) are put in charge of the case, but they soon realize that they’re going to have a hard time because Gu-ppong is quite set in his ways.

Although the children enjoyed their day out with Gu-ppong as it was a much needed break from the rigors of studying in the prison-like academy, their parents don’t share the same opinion. Instead, the parents are slighted by Gu-ppong’s insinuation that they’re disregarding their children’s happiness by putting too much academic pressure on them. His mother – who happens to be the director of the academy – apologizes on her son’s behalf and says that Gu-ppong is mentally unwell. But Young-woo disagrees and tells her that the children understand Gu-ppong and his idea of liberation, it’s only the adults who don’t understand him.

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10 Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

Min-woo also tries to use Gu-ppong’s megalomaniac diagnosis in their defense, but Young-woo, who fits right into Gu-ppong and the children’s world, gives a contrary argument and says that Gu-ppong just wants to change the system in his own way. Unfortunately, this is not enough to sway the judge, especially since Gu-ppong doesn’t show remorse for his actions. It also annoys Min-woo who complains to Myeong-seok, wanting a penalty for Young-woo. But Myeong-seok tells him off and says differences in opinions should be discussed with his co-attorney rather than arguments about penalties and whatnot.

Gu-ppong pleads with the lawyers to get the children to attend his final trial, and their parents are only too eager to release them on hearing that it’ll be an educational experience for the children. Pfft. The children then have a fun ride to court with the lawyers who now go by nicknames just like Mr. Fart. Young-woo christens Jun-ho as Lee Butthole and herself as Woo Woodpecker’s Booger. Min-woo surprisingly joins the fun as Kwon Poop, and Myeong-seok becomes Jung Fart-Fart. At this point I’m in tears, because what in the toilet humor is going on here?

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10 Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

Gu-ppong solemnly tells the court that children have to play now because it’ll be too late to do that when they become adults, and his words have an effect on the judge and jury. As Gu-ppong and the children shout out their liberation mantra, the entire courtroom is taken by their energy, while his mother is moved to tears. And though we don’t get to see Gu-ppong’s sentencing, from all indications, the case ends on a happy note.

But I have to admit that this is a very idealistic case, because while I get the idea behind “rescuing” children from the demands of school and parental expectations, Gu-ppong’s method was still wrong. And I don’t think the presence of excited children in court will make any difference to a judge in reality. But hey, we all need happy endings in fiction, and I can get behind this one.

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

Speaking of happy endings, since Young-woo didn’t get Jun-ho’s response to her confession last week, she spends the entire case being very nice to Jun-ho and confusing him at the same time. She helps to pull out his chair, makes him walk on the inside of the sidewalk, opens car doors for him, and even tries to help him carry heavy stuff. Lol. But as it turns out, Jun-ho’s non-response is because he’s worried about the aftermath of getting into a relationship with her, because he doesn’t want to start something that won’t last. A very valid concern, if I may add.

An oblivious Min-woo encourages his roommate to just go for it if he likes the girl, and off Jun-ho goes to confess his feelings to Young-woo. He even confesses right in front of the revolving door where they first met at work! Squee!!! Geu-ra-mi and her boss, KIM MIN-SHIK (Im Sung-jae) join in the squeeing party when Young-woo tells them the good news, and the romance in the air also makes them want to date. Young-woo promises to set Min-shik up with Su-yeon, and Geu-ra-mi is left to find her own date. Heh. Anyway, now that the feelings are clear on both sides, it’s time for our whale couple to move forward.

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

The defendant in Young-woo’s next case is charged with quasi-rape of a person with disabilities, but he claims that the sex was consensual because he and the victim are in love. From the victim’s statement, she wasn’t exactly forced, but there are concerns that she might have been incapable of saying no at the time. Myeong-seok and Su-yeon are very hesitant to take on the case, but Young-woo agrees to defend him.

I think that Young-woo is kind of emotionally attached to this case because as a person with autism, she has always thought that it’ll be difficult for someone to like her. But with this case, she sees an average guy who appears to be in love with someone like her, and she wants to believe that their love is true. Because in a way, if theirs is a successful love story, it’s an assurance that the same can also be the case for her and Jun-ho.

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

But as the case proceeds, we learn that it’s not the defendant’s first rodeo. He volunteers at organizations for people with intellectual disabilities and like the gigolo he is, he fools the women into believing he’s in love with them just so they can spend their money on him. Young-woo initially withdraws from the case in disappointment, but she goes back to defending him after the victim pleads on his behalf. According to the victim, she knows he’s a gigolo, but she loves him all the same, and doesn’t want him to go to prison.

In the end, the defendant is (rightfully) sent to prison, but Young-woo is left to wonder if it’s enough for people with disabilities to be in love because other people may not think their feelings are valid. And over the course of the case, we see this play out – from the reaction of Jun-ho’s friends when they saw him out on a date with Young-woo, to their insinuation later on that Young-woo is a pitiful girl, and it’s just sympathy he feels for her rather than love (earning that friend a deserved punch in the face from Jun-ho).

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10 Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

Young-woo and Jun-ho agree that loving her is going to be hard, but Jun-ho says he’s still going to do it. A nervous Young-woo leans in for a tentative kiss, not completely sure on how to proceed, but teacher Jun-ho gently guides her, and they go for a second round. It’s longer this time, and excuse me while I “whoa, whoa” and shed some happy shipper tears because my heart is about to burst! I had different scenarios in my head for what their first kiss was going to be like, but this, this was perfection! I honestly can’t imagine anything better than this.

I can’t over-emphasize on how much I love Jun-ho’s consistency and patience (and micro-expressions) when it comes to Young-woo. He comes into her world very respectfully, is genuinely interested in learning new things about her, and respects her boundaries. Similarly, Young-woo recognizes that she also needs to come into his world, and I like that she makes an attempt to do it when it comes to skinship. We know she’s not a big fan of physical contact, but she initiated the 57 seconds hand-holding as well as their kiss, and this compromise on both sides is one of the reasons why they’re the greenest flag couple in all of dramaland at this moment.

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

But while our whale couple basks in the euphoria of their love, the sea that is Young-woo’s birth secret is about to be hit with a storm. CEO Tae visits Young-woo’s dad at his kimbap shop and tells him to go with Young-woo to the Taesan branch in the US. Dad flares up and orders her out, but a reporter who covered the highway case last week (courtesy of Hanbada) has been following CEO Tae around. He recognizes Young-woo’s name – which is also the name of the kimbap shop — and infers that she’s CEO Tae’s rumored illegitimate daughter. To confirm his suspicion, he calls Min-woo, and this makes me uncomfortable because Min-woo is not one to keep his mouth shut when it comes to issues like this.

I wonder if Min-woo doesn’t have anything else to do with his spare time other than poking around in Young-woo’s business. I mean, Su-yeon is busy going on blind dates (including the epic fail with Min-shik who kept making terrible food puns), Myeong-seok is busy being the best boss ever — but Min-woo is just busy trying to one-up Young-woo. Tsk. Anyway, I trust the story not to go overboard with the whole birth secret arc. But more importantly, I trust Young-woo. No matter what life or anyone else throws at her, she is more than capable of overcoming. After all, she is the extraordinary attorney Woo!

Extraordinary Attorney Woo: Episodes 9-10

 
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I love how youngwoo's friends reacted to the news of junho saying he likes her, lowkey making fun of how cringe it was LOL also liked how the drama is showing it is also hard for sooyeon to date. I had a feeling the drama would try to push her and minwoo from ep 9 so I expected her to meet him at the nightclub.

the case from ep 10 had so many layers and to see youngwoo navigating everything was at the same time amazing and pure anxiety.

park eunbin and kang taeoh are just killing the dating thing.
the kissing scene was just perfect. it was sweet but also a bit awkward because it's exactly how it should be. youngwoo never cared about love before, she is learning everything as she goes. the "loving me is hard" dialogue was just so simple and powerful. and eunbin looking at his fingers when he was explaining how to kiss and pucking her lips/closing her eyes as he was talking. she's killing with consistency for every detail.
the whole sequence was also a great lesson about consent.

now.... her mom.. did she really think this plan would work?
the way she said that youngwoo is alone when, in reality, YW has a considerable group of people who love and support her. It's a really good thing that the drama made youngwoo find about her mom before everything hits the fan. I think minwoo will think he has something against YW and will be super disappointed when it doesn't work his way in the future.

I know we speculate a lot about junho's past but I'm ok with not knowing a lot tbh. like youngwoo says, he's a warm, kind-hearted person. it's good to see someone that is simply like that. no need to give him a past or a family to "explain" why he's so considerate with youngwoo since the start. he's head over heels for her and that's it. If I could ask for one thing is a scene where he declares all the things he likes about her, especially to someone doubting him like his asshole friend did. I'm still hoping that this type of scene will happen when minwoo finds out they're dating. not that junho needs to explain anything but just to show that youngwoo is a woman like any other that someone can fall in love with.

extraordinary woo has one flaw though and it's the continuity with their hair LOL we know the drama was shooting for a long period of time and we can see how eunbin and taeoh's hair change in some scenes.

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@jsourgod: The practical demonstration of how consent should work was wonderful to see for sure. Not only it was a tender and gorgeous way to communicate but also it enhanced the swoon worthiness of the scene.
I also liked that both characters were dressed in the same shade of lime and grey/khaki when Junho first confessed. It was visually so appealing.

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This is what kdramas do well, scene colors and symmetry. It’s so pleasing to the eye.

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That 57 second time limit for kissing had me wondering if he would have to be "Minute Man" in episode 17.

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@Lord Cobol: Such a dude comment! Pardon me if you’re not a dude!😊

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Fortunately, he is a dude, so you don't have to worry about causing another one of
THESE threads! although tbf, that was so funny, it was kinda worth it.

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Best thread ever!👏 Sad I missed this rollercoaster in real time.😔

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I tear up a little every time I re-read it. So good. Such a classic. The comedic timing couldn't be better if it were scripted.

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@sicarius: That thread was AMAZING. Is WishfulToki still around? And, that troublemaker, Greenfields!😊

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@wishfultoki Toki is sometimes! Usually when there's a trad sageuk to watch, and when she has time lol. She'll be pleased to know I haven't let this occurrence die lmao
I'm not sure about Greenie; I haven't caught up with her in a while haha.

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Thank you for sharing. Tears are literally running down my face. The comments section is such a joyful place to be, I love it. I love that years later it can still bring joy.

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I'm so happy we got more of the whale couple in these episodes! So glad the kiss was not the boring, static just pressing the lips type! And I think Junho also didn't keep his hands to himself., I believe his hands were at her waist or something. Squee!

The part where she insisted that Junho be at the inside of the walkway was funny! And they seemed to be waltzing too... lol

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That sidewalk scene was hilarious to me since it looked like they were fighting to be on the outside!

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Thanks for the wee-cap!

I really appreciated the cases that needed to be addressed and how they mirrored some of the themes of this drama.

I also LOVED the scenes with Jun-ho and Young-woo, especially the one towards the end of episode 10!

What I also really appreciated is that although Jun-ho initially hesitated to share his feelings for Young-woo, once he did, he was all in. I don't think anyone would blame him if he felt uncomfortable publicly acknowledging his feelings for her. And that fight was a real scrabble! Jun-ho was not holding back!

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I'm sure there will be many who will express their love of the kiss scene, which I wholeheartedly agree with. But some other observations for a show that I love.

1. Minwoo. I'm not sure how to feel about him. I don't think the writers are going to make him all evil notwithstanding his digging around. The thing is, the show also spends time on his reactions when he's called out and part of me feels that he is conflicted and torn. I think he will likely have a redeeming arc. Also, because you can tell he is starting to be interested in Su-Yeon so I think the writers are going to go there.

2. As a US-based lawyer, Korea's fairly new jury system is fascinating. That the judge can overrule their decision is so interesting to me. However, I did agree with the verdict and it's a relief that the judge overruled a jury decision which would have been a hung jury in the US (the guy would have gotten away free). I thought it was clever how they juxtaposed the bad guy and Jun-Ho and how it really is all about consent, meaningful consent. Can someone with a mind of a 13-year old really give meaningful consent? On the other hand, a sadder question is will someone with a 13-year old mind ever be able to be in a meaningful, loving relationship? Appreciate the show for raising tough questions with no clean answers.

3. I'm a bit disappointed that Tae San went the route she did. I suppose that will be fleshed out in later episodes. I wonder if she was able to avail of all the help in the US for people with autism to explain why she is adjusted as she is. The show hints that she is also on the spectrum but perhaps she was able to get by without any help. I've actually worked with a few attorneys who are noticeably on the spectrum but never got a diagnoses until they were adults. I know many of them struggled internally but they managed to get by without getting help early on.

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I agree about minwoo. I don't know if a reedemption arc is what I would call because I don't think the drama sees him as a bad person in itself. more like someone who's a product of how a insanely competitive environment can do to someone. but I do think he will do something good to youngwoo that will show a different side to him. maybe when he finds out about the whole story about youngwoo and her mom, he will see that things are way deeper than his superficial understanding of the situation. maybe that will be the line he won't cross?

I thought it was interesting to see park eunbin talking about his character. she sees him not as a bad guy, but more like a symbol of the things youngwoo has to learn to adapt to this new environment and all the new emotions that come from that. that leads me to think that he won't do anything extremely awful to her (I mean.. he has done unpleasant things, but I'm thinking of villain type of things)

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I like to think Minwoo has a line he won't cross even if tempted. Feeling that Young-woo was a recipient of nepotism and that it should be called out makes sense in that it felt unfair to him who has worked so hard.

This info would be useful for blackmail, but it would be hitting below the belt. And I don't see him going to Young-woo's face and be like "haha your mom gave you up!" and hope she feels sad enough to screw up her work.

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I think Junho will be the key for Minwoo to not cross the line once he found out they are dating. JH and MW are good friends and more closer than those sidewalk friends he bumped into with YoungWoo. Also he knows YW in person compare to them?

As for Tae Sumi - that lady has flipped into the kind of mom you hate in kdrama. Juding from her conversation with CEO Han in the extra clips from Astory youtube… she does seem like a person who will use her power to get her way.

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Thank you for pointing out that Min Woo’s behaviour is unsurprising given the competitive environment. It doesn’t make his actions right, of course, because we almost always have choices, and doing what’s right isn’t always going to be easy. I think most of us would agree that MW’s choices fall squarely on the wrong/bad side of the line (morally), but the truth is, the systems in place often reward people like him. This is how some manage to ‘get ahead’ in life, so I’m just happy to see others calling him out - it surprises me, to be honest.

I find it fascinating (perhaps perversely) that we can often agree upon and name the values we all hold and share - like honesty and integrity - and yet the systems we’ve put in place do not reflect (or reward) them. Does this make people a *little* less blameworthy for acting dishonestly and without integrity?

I think MW’s actions are actually illustrative of the context for the case in episode 9 - on one hand, I believe that none of the parents who send their children to academies are out to make their kids miserable. On the other hand, the systems in place mean that a person’s prospects in life are very much determined by how well they perform academically. It doesn’t make what’s happening to those children right, but most people never step back to reflect macroscopically on their choices. They just think ‘doing x will increase the chances of getting y’ and unless x seems immediately heinous, they just plod on with x.

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I totally agree about the jury aspect. It is so fascinating to me. Their decision is only a suggestion to the judge, the judge does the entire sentencing. Sometimes I say, what is the point, but other times I get it.

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If you haven't yet, you should see Juror 8 with Park Hyung Sik about a fictional account of the first jury trial in Korea. It's based on 12 Angry Men and not the actual first jury trial in Korea. Good movie and Park Hung Sik was awesome even in a nonromantic role!

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Can anyone shed light that there are 3 judges but it seems like only the one judge does all the talking and deciding?

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There's the judge who presides over the case, whoever is seated in the middle. The other two are ...I don't know what term is used to describe thier capacity in the court at that point in time.
So it's normal for the presiding Judge to do most of the talking, but he deliberates the proceedings of the case with the other judges before sentencing.
Although I find it extremely weird here on EAW that the other two are more or less spectators who fill in judge seats. I know that they can interfere with the trial as they want as much as the presiding judge does. So I don't get their spectator-esque characterization here.

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Right, in EAW we see (more than once) the jury decision announced and then the chief judge makes his decision with no conferring over the jury decision. It seems odd.

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They are called assistant judges. The Ji Sung drama called Devil Judge, despite its dramatics, gives a fair example of what the assistant judges do.

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The drama Ms Hammurabi explores these side roles too, as the leads are the side judges with Sung Dong-Il as the lead judge.

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I share your thoughts about Min Woo as well.

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Sometimes when he’s a total bastard I switch over to Happiness to watch him croak, but it’s purely cathartic and I’m sure this show has less grim plans for him.

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Wait! He was in Happiness? Ah, the trainer. Maybe that's why I don't hate Min Woo here--a bit of actor transference. 😅

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HAHAHAHAHA

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@cvonspie: His redemptive arc better be substantive and well-earned as so far he has been a toxic little shit who has consistently backstabbed, patronised and disliked Youngwoo. I find it odd that Juhno so far has only confronted him once about his behaviour towards Youngwoo even though he has witnessed these behaviours a number of times. By ‘confronting’, I do not mean in a paternalistic way but as a coworker and roommate. Also, while I acknowledge that Minwoo is a self-obsessed tool, one would think he would have noticed his roommate and colleague’s growing affection for Youngwoo.

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@cvonspie: Excellent comment. You make a cogent point re a 13 year old’s lack of capacity for consent. The law in many common law countries currently prescribes 16 as a minimum age. If they were both minors, it would still be a complex situation given her intellectual age but the scenario depicted in the episode raised too many red flags.

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Woo-Young's comment about the fact if she thinks it's love doesn't matter if other people thought it wasn't was very sad. Both her and Jun-Ho will be judged for this relationship when it's their business.

It's nice to see their cute relationship, how they move step by step, talking about their feelings and respecting each other. PEB is killing it in this role.

Min-Woo found a way to be hired in the second biggest law firm. He can blackmail CEO Tae. I hope he will be smarter than that.

The reaction of CEO Tae was very disapointing. At this point, I want the secret out, but I don't want Young-Woo to be hurt by it.

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That was a very well executed kiss scene. I was scared for a second when they came across his friends while on that date that Jun Ho would maybe not acknowledge their budding relationship but I didn't have anything to worry about. He stays consistent and a green flag like that light in the kiss scene. I'm not a big fan of the mom plot. While I don't mind them exploring the mother daughter relationship(or lack of), I don't care about mom and her quest to become a minister at all costs so I hope they don't spend too long on that. I'd rather have more of Young Woo and Jun Ho navigating the struggles they are bound to face, or Young Woo and dad who was always there for her.

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Thank you for your lovely recaps @unit. They are a highpoint of my week.
Honestly, as engrossing as these cases were, it is hard to focus on anything except for Young Woo and Jun Ho after finishing these episodes so forgive me as I need to get my squees out first. Eee!
The moments of Young Woo and Jun Ho coming together was so typical of their relationship. Both had to decide a relationship would be worth the obstacles, but once they did it was green light (I love that touch in the setting of their first kiss).
I am continually impressed by this writer and director who have the courage to broach questions and observations of our society. The sensitive subjects these two cases dealt with were handled with no definite answers. We are left to think on the matters and open a conversation.
The characters continue to delight even the antagonists. I am disappointed in Min Woo but still (naively?) hold out for his redemption because I am inclined to hope for his growth. Tae Soo Mi went into prevention mode because she is wholly ignorant of love without selfish motivations (makes me want to see her relationship with her son). She will lose out on her chance to know Young Woo if she puts her aspirations for power first, but it would be true to her character so far.
As for Young Woo's circle of supporters. You just can't ask for a better group. I was a little sad Su Yeon's blind date with Geu Ra Mi's boss was played the way it was (but at least the reason wasn't his appearance). The club scene was a little heartbreaking because you know she was thinking of Jun Ho when she described her "good man" ideal. Our Spring Sunshine deserves to find a "good man".
Did anyone else wince at he lingering shot of the brochure for the Boston position? This drama better not go that route. I am done with the overseas separation trope.

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🤍

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Since many of the characters have shown a growth arc, I am hoping the same for Min Woo and Tae Su-mi too,especially the latter because although dad has showered Young Woo with lots of love, sadly it can never wholly make up for the absence of a mother and we see its effect on YW in episode 6.

And yes when Spring Sunshine was describing her ideal man, I also caught on she's describing Junho.

Minor question, when did Dad start hanging all those photos on the wall of the restaurant? I am sure those aren't there at least until episode 5 else the rude customer will know definitely dad is lying that Young Woo is not his daughter.

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The last episode brought up what I had been thinking a lot about, at the latest when Gwang-ho talked in an earlier episode about how he was sometimes quite lonely as her father. My concern here is Young-woo's aversions to physical contact (hugs, holding hands). I guess a relationship is difficult when one partner longs for physical closeness but the other partner tends not to feel that longing.
But since Young-woo knows that this could be a hurdle, and Jun-ho is fantastically understanding, I'm sure the two of them will somehow overcome this. I'm looking forward to it.

(As English is not my mother tongue, I hope I have not expressed myself too poorly and misleadingly on this sensitive subject)

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First that kiss was done so perfectly, it was super awkward in the best way.

The two cases this week were really well done.

Was it kidnapping? Absolutely. Was he he liberating those babies? Abso-freaking-lutely.

Was she sexually assualted? Possibly, especially because she didn't like it. Does she love him? Probably. Did he think of it sexual assault? Probably not. Could it have been? Probably. Does he love her? Probably. Was he always going to jail? Yes.

Lol, I loved these episodes.

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For episode 9 @kafiyah-bello, I guess Youngwoo's changing her strategy (after seeing the orca, more on that later) because she believe him as criminal/prisoner of conscience, who do that in terms of changing the society, and mean to go to jail because of that. He is a kidnapper, the point is why he did that (some even states that prisoner of conscience issue triggers some memories in South Korea about the 1980's Democratic Movement).

We all know the Pied Piper reference (he kidnapped 12 children, reference of the year when that happened: 1212), but do you know that orca swimming into (and later, out of) the court is not just some captive orca? He is actually Tilikum (note his collapsed dorsal fin), being captured in the ocean near Iceland, and kept in Florida SeaWorld for 33 years. His captive life is so destructive, he even killed 3 of his trainers, most famous of all, Dawn Brancheau, in February 24, 2010. The incident is heavily featured in a 2013 documentary Blackfish.

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I think we are agreeing. I meant is he a kidnapper on a technical level, which he is. That is why I also added that he liberated those children.

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I’m far less convinced she didn’t like it. There’s no way her mom wasn’t in that interview, and she says she didn’t like it “because I thought I would get in trouble with Mom”.

Every adult in that courtroom was primed to see her as a child, and to see her mother as a selfless protector. But the girl herself goes out of her way to clarify with Young Woo: she knows the guy’s a jerk, and she doesn’t care. Much like many other young women, and like Sunshine who goes home with a random clubgoer.

The psychiatrist basically said no matter how much the girl wants to love someone, it’s not up to her whether she gets to be in that relationship. That her judgement in this ONE area isn’t allowed. It’s a position a whole lot of people comfortably explain to themselves as an area of special protection of the vulnerable, but it’s actually because they think it’s icky. They don’t want to deal with a sexually active disabled person. And they map that person’s sometimes childlike interactions to an asexual nature, which… it’s just not accurate. At all. Which they’d know if they actually listened to a disabled teen or adult, rather than writing it off as a phase or something.

I feel really bad for the disabled teens I knew growing up. They knew what sex was. They had crushes. And I wonder about the ones whose parents insisted on viewing them as forever-children, even when we were in school. And other parents treated the same type of disability as a teenager with a disability - someone who still needed a hell of a lot of oversight, but an adult human. Years later, it’s a little horrifying to think some of those people are likely now adults being treated like 13 year olds by their moms.

…clearly this episode was troubling for me, but in a good and insightful way.

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This is a fair analysis. I do remember her saying that about her mom.

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This interpretation is valid as well. I think the writer left it deliberately open to our judgement to highlight the point you make. You notice we never see any flashbacks of their relationship; it is only through the lens of others' thoughts.

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I agree with you wholeheartedly and think basically people with disability are forcefully excluded from normal sexual behavior because non-disabled people see them as "less" often and associate sex and disability as some sort of wrong deviancy. And they project this onto disabled people, treating them as children even when they grow up. Episode 10 really left a horrible aftertaste and the idea that the guy is punished for having consensual sex with a disabled person is horrifying really. It's saying "don't go near disabled people no matter what, avoid them at all costs" basically.

P.S. The whole "did she like it" discussion is so beyond ridiculous to me as most girls don't actually enjoy their first time when they have sex, most are confused, scared and it definitely isn't the best sexual experience of one's life. That said, nobody questions non-disabled teens and young adults for engaging in less than ideal and uncomortable sex if they want to. Awkward and unsuccessful doesn't make it a crime.

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I just have to add that there is a translated version of Young Woo's list date ideas and if you have not seen it yet, you must. I think they had fun with this one. Whoever created it for the drama needs a gold star. 🤭

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Can you post a link to where you can find that translated list? Thanks!

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I put that on my own wall, but for you convenience, I repost it here ...

1. 2-person protest to free dolphins
(She even mention making protest material together)

2. Gimbap eating tour
(and she, expectedly prefer predictable ingredient)

3. Jogging and cleaning up rubbish on the way to Han River

4. Find words which are the sames while spelling forward and backward

5. Researching genes and biology

6. To Jeju to find the 3 freed dolphins
(which mentioned in Episode 4)

7. Finding Delphinus (Dolphin constellation) in the night sky

8. Ask haenyeos in Jeju (who dive without equipment to catch seafood bare hands in this island province: You probably watched Han Ji-min playing one in Our Blues) what the shape caudal fin of whales look like, then make a fin-shape cutting board for her father.

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Haha! This is cute.

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Thank you!

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By the way, if you look at the trailer, @books7time, Youngwoo the "Dolphin's Liberation Army Commander" actually did some of those already, like protest and picking up trash. Her protest look is especially adorable, mind you.

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Now that makes sense. I saw that in the promo trailer and was excited to see that part. Great to know super cute YW protest coming! Now where can i sign up for WYW Dolphin Liberation Army. ❤️

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I want to join her army! Never ever went to see those dolphins held in captivity at the aquarium in my own country. Pitiful to be captured. Humans!

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Let's fight for the dolphins, Youngwoo forever, @znzn84!

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I saw it on another source. Had a good laugh. V creative indeed and from the pre-release trailer it seems some of these ideas did get executed hopefully in real dates with Junho, not in dreams...

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I would start my comment by mentioning the rating. The rising tide of rating stops on Episode 9, and in Episode 10 it drops a bit (although it’s still high: 15.780% & 15.157%, respectively). Certainly, a good show is not determined by rating (although it may determine to have every actor, director and screenwriter to receive golden whale or not). But the drop of Episode 10 showing how daring the production team to tackle a pretty controversial issue, even parallel with the main couple's love story. This is how good this show is.

Sorry to say this, I feel @unit's review cannot really point out the controversy of the whole case in Episode 10. No doubt the defendant is a scoundrel of some sort, and even the "victim" acknowledged that. However, her initial claim of being "raped" is more because of the pressure of her "chopper mom". I appreciate her mom's intention of protecting her, but her way is, to say the least, very aggressive, even borderline abusive: victim's testimony states that she didn't want to have sex partly because she fear her mom, so scary that she scratch her hand so hard it hurts; and her mom in the end basically trying to plant fear on Youngwoo to submission (she is so scare she even drop the documents in hand) outside the court, knowing full well Youngwoo is mentally challenged (or, may I say, using her mentally challenged condition).

In the end, the juries gave out a split decision (3 guilty vs. 4 not-guilty), if it is not in South Korea, the defendant may have been released because of juries’ verdict. It is only in South Korea where the judges have more power, they will make a decision different from juries. This also shows how unsettling this case is.

The issues here are: 1. No doubt the defendant is a gigolo, but do they love each other for real this time? 2. If the mom’s control to her daughter is so strong and overpowering, isn’t that an abusive behaviour we need to address as well? 3. How the public opinion sways the final decision, and how it may be so unfair to the defendant?

But the most important point is in fact pointed out by no other but Youngwoo herself right before her first kiss with Junho: Do we believe mentally challenged person have the right to love, express love, and can we respect their decision to love, and claim their love as valid? “We have right to love even a scoundrel,” in another occasion, she tells the victim, “and determining it is making love for real or sexual assault, it is your right, not the court’s or your mom’s.” Youngwoo is lucky to have Junho, the victim is not, but both their love should be respected.

And this is why I feel happy Youngwoo have her first kiss with Junho, yet I feel sad at the same time, because her love may be invalidated by someone with so-called sane-minded, and Junho’s reply, as a result, is even more assuring and powerful: “If I think it is love, it is love then.”

Before we close this case, we must...

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"Before we close this case, we must not forget this."

Hey, website, I am just 3 words longer then the limitation!!!!

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I totally agree with all your points about ep 10's case.

I think the slight dip in ratings is more related to ep 9's case. I have seen people saying it was boring. maybe that made people less eager to watch ep 10 when it was airing, I think.

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That maybe the reason, too, @jsourgod. In fact, Episode 10 is more impactful than Episode 9, not only because of the first kiss. Furthermore, Mr. Fart is more like a Superhero than a real person. I think the backstory of the orca swimming into the courtroom is more interesting than Guppong (Orca's name is Tilikum, check that out)

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More Orca cameos in show, please and thank you~ ^-^

(Although, I didn't think the show was directly referencing Tilikum? (I suppose he is the most famous one though)- rather just captive male orcas in general- the dropping dorsal fin is a result of captivity, not one specific orca, and there are many such cases (see: Keiko). She also didn't specifically mention what Tilikum is famous for, which is uh.. snapping, and killing three people; two trainers and a trespasser- because her metaphor was more about children being trapped in a confined unhealthy environment and made to "perform" (study)).

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Yes, you maybe right, @sicarius ... And having parallel between the children and a killer whale which killed 3 persons maybe a little bit controversial ...

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🤭🤭🤭 Maybe just a little (this isn't the DP version of Extracurricular/SKY Castle :P)

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Agree wholeheartedly with your post. If I want to have sex with someone and I don’t care if he’s a shady guy because actually he’s also kind of sweet sometimes and also have I mentioned that I want to kiss and sleep with someone… that is describing a pretty common behavior. Including very possibly Sunshine, who certainly appears to have gone home with club bro.

Judge coming down pretty solidly on “disabled people can’t have sex if their mom doesn’t want them to.”

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For Youngwoo, this is more personal then just having sex. Her initial reason to accepting the case is "I want to believe him," and in the end when Junho asks, she actually confuses if it is about the case or herself. The judge's ruling is not only strip her from having sex with others, but also strip her right to love someone. I guess it is way more serious then what the case mean in the surface ...

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More broadly, I think the case is about disabled people being able to engage in the sort of milestones that everyone else does. I agree for WYW it’s not about sex - but to a degree, I think it might have been for the girl in this case. She KNOWS the guy isn’t a good guy, but being with him lets her feel all the thrilling emotions of a relationship, including the physical side. And that’s a trade off that lots of people make when deciding whether to become romantic with someone else. But clearly in the view of the judge and her mom, that’s not a decision she gets to make.

And that in turn really throws WYW. Initially, she wants to believe the defendant. And then, she doesn’t really care so much about the defendant’s motives and is more in-tune with the supposed victim’s view. And THEN, neither of those things matter because a dude with a gavel paternalistically decides that the girl’s wishes don’t matter because she’s not able to make decisions because she’s disabled. And that would be a terrifying mirror on WYW’s new relationship, because while she knows that everyone under the sun knows Jun Ho is a good man, and SHE knows she likes him back, there’s a looming specter that no other young woman has to deal with - which is that societal mechanisms could mute her and hurt Jun Ho, if they wanted.

And that is scary as hell.

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Excellent comment!

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Totally agree with you, @Miranda, and I have to point out one more thing, when Hyeyeong's mom is being aggressive towards Youngwoo outside the court, she shows the sign of being threatened, and the same sign is shown when Hyeyeong is testifying in the court, and being forced to talk about her hurt her hand. Every sign is showing the threat is her mom, not Jeong-il.

This is not to say Jeong-il is all right in this case. But this is obvious Hyeyeong is being abused psychologically by her mom. This may also made Youngwoo question her right to love others. Hyeyeong falling in love with a scoundrel is not the tragedy, her mom's control freak behaviour is.

I really can't stand her freaking mom.

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Ratings fun fact: it’s been on Netflix top ten list in the US this week. I have never seen this happen for a K-drama that wasn’t made just for Netflix

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Business Proposal also got up to #8 in the US!

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Ahh I am glad to find a detailed and sensible comment about episode 10's case. Most people think the worst of the guy, and while he might not be perfectly innocent, I think the mom is the real culprit here.

She made a first night that could be awkward for your regular person too into a traumatic memory for her daughter. The mom is super controlling and I don't think she wants her daughter to live her own life. Just because asshole men/people exist, she takes away Hyesoo's chance to find her own Junho. Hyesoo most probably from this point on will be scared to love because his lover could potentially put in jail again.

I wonder if treating her as a child, and shielding her from love will benefit or break her on the long run.

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Thanks, @hanabi, and I have to say this: this is why Youngwoo's first kiss in fact has a tragic feeling. After all, this is the first case she lost in this drama, and the most personal (Even Miss Spring Sunshine feels that).

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But she didn't lose the case. She won it. Not guilty. The judge decided to do an override because of his own beliefs. That's not her fault. If one looks at it from that perspective, he did to the court what the mom was doing to her daughter: completely invalidating their ability to make valid decisions. He disregarded the decision of the jury to enforce his own prejudices. It also probably wasn't the first one that she lost because they inferred that she lost the Mr. Fart one.

Why do KDramas always give the characters such creepy friends? That girl in the group was obtuse. If it a cultural

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Well, that judged by how you see the verdict: She can't stop him from going to jail as Hyeyeong hope. But you can also say the judge just sentenced him without saying guilty or not ... it can be a win.

Actually, both judge decisions this week can be interpreted both ways. The show didn't shows us the verdict of Mr. Fart, doesn't mean she lose: she just did Mr. Fart's has just urge her to do, and as a result, he goes to jail may be interpreted as a win as well.

She "lost" can be interpreted as personal as well, since her right of express love is somewhat invalid through this case.

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Agreed, just want to point out that it's not only in South Korea that judges have more power, it's most of the world, lol. The common law system that exists in the US (with juries and case precedents) derives in fact from the English monarchy and got spread to British colonies. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe and all other parts of the world rely on laws being made by governments which are then upheld by judges who rule in court (civil law).
South Korea began to implement juries recently as an experiment because of the enormous influence the US has had after the Korean War but frankly it's weird and unnatural as the country's legal system is based on civil law.

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What can i say. I must have rewatched the kiss scene like 5 times. It was just so perfect and swoony! and the cinematography was phenomenal. I had the biggest smile on my face. I really like how they are progressing. And i love that consent is the key. I like the way Junho is understanding that when it comes to physical contact, she has to initiate it, and knows instantly when she is uncomfortable. I also love that YW is self aware enough that she need to go out of her comfort zone. As all have said this is the most green flag couple in drama history. It just shows she likes him enough to do things that may be hard for her. I cant wait till next week episodes!!!!! yay for our whale couple!

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I'm glad Young woo's Dad shut down CEO Tae's BS. That flashback showed just the kind of her she is and how she has two faces. I don't think Young woo is the reason she has a scandal, it will be her or her family's doing. I want Dad to now open a law firm so Young woo can inherit it.

Min woo- a hard head makes a soft behind. Remember that.

I thought Sunshine and Hairy Boss' dinner date was hilarious. He is a lovely person, just a little out there. I would not mind if he and Sunshine try it again. Young woo would not steer her wrong on something like that, she adores her too much. Sunshine was already frustrated about the previous dates reading like job interviews. I would like for them to have another try. Min woo should not now or ever be a option. He is NO WHERE on her level.

Young woo and Jun ho's first kiss was perfect and I have nothing else to add.

And damn, Jun ho is a solid dude. I thought when he ran into his friends he as uncomfortable because there saw he with Young woo. Turns out he was distancing himself after one of them made that commit about Young woo a few episodes back and DID IT AGAIN.
Young woo is it for him. Solid dude.

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But I have the bad feeling about Boston. The scene zoom to the folder in the end ...

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I choose to believe that the zoom in was to highlight the "Taesun Law Firm" name on the brochure rather than the idea that it's in Boston. We all know this utter-waste-of-molecules woman and her political ambitions are not going anywhere yet. They don't need to move to Boston on some overseas LTR trope in order to finish her story...
If I believe it is real, then it is. ;)

I am also interested in the earlier comment about her acknowledged son. In the "righteous indignation" corner of my brain I want him to enter the story and actually like/respect his half-sister, to his mother's consternation. But this is highly unlikely, of course. It would be super satisfying, though...
Just like having Su Yeon find her man (I'm still rooting for Min-Sik, but - my man - please go get some advice from Geu Rami first before you embarrass us all again!) and whatever STFU argument Jun Ho gives Min Woo when he finds out about the lovers' relationship - those will both be satisfying too.

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I could see Young-woo’s dad getting it in his head as a way to protect her, even though he hates the source. He was very overprotective about her hire and birth secret in a way that did not treat her as an adult. I could see him trying to push it on her, them fighting, and her not going in the end.

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But at least, @abalyn, Gwangho is trying to treat Youngwoo as an adult, after she voices out ("If I am being beaten to the bottom, I would like to go alone, because I am adult now," she said in Episode 7)

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They do like to do months-long separations in KDramas... Maybe she goes to Boston to escape the pain of losing Jun Ho, but then he goes to get her...? I think Geu Ra Mi ends up with hairy boss. After all, she did phone bomb his date with Su Yeon. Sadly, I think wonderful Su Yeon ends up with Junk Boy Min Woo, maybe after a short fling with Jun Ho...?

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I laughed at all of Hairy Boss's jokes and would totally have finished out the date just to see how many jokes he could come up with. He's got to be more interesting than her other dates.

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I really really really want Sunshine and Hairy Boss to end up together. I would have been a little freaked out if he'd punned that relentlessly too, but I hope she gets a chance to see him when he's feeling less nervous. He seems like such a nice and genuine person when he's peeling veggies and chatting with the two best friends.

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Yes Sunshine and Hairy Boss should have another run. Harry Boss for all his coaching of Young woo made the mistake of selling himself too hard with those food jokes there 🤣. I don't think he normally cracks such joke. Definitely induced by his nerves. Warm sunshine should have a warm person by her side, not a cynical somewhat narcissistic man like Min Woo. Forgive me but even if I believe there's a redemption arc for Min Woo, his personality is just written as such.

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I think The Good Doctor pulled a fast one on me with the almost lack of EQ as an adult. I’m really enjoying the different facet of ASD that Youngwoo is giving off at the moment – a little range of EQ.

With each time the SKY Castle theme is referenced, I hope parents will find a way to help their children excel academically whilst letting them enjoy their childhood, and that I’ll remember to do same.
Side Note : Jung Myeong-seok is a genius. Passing the bar before finishing law school ain’t easy feat. I’m now in expectation of when he gets to solely lead a case in court.

The defendant in ep 9. I do share Young-woo's resigned to fate look. What a client🤦🏽😅. I did respect his unapologetic stand though.

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Ep 9 raised the really important issue of the inordinate pressure on school children in South Korea in order to get into the so-called SKY top 3 unis. SK’s economic transformation was facilitated by the crony capitalistic model which overwhelmingly benefitted the chaebol class (this word is derived from two Korean words of 재, (chae itself is derived from chaesan 재산 meaning wealth) and 벌 (meaning clique) which in turn was financially and militarily supported by the US in pursuit of its post-imperialistic global and regional hegemonic goals. The economic boom created extraordinary pressures to succeed, and generations of children have been caught in the cross-fires if this educational cauldron approach. One of my former students has a Korean partner and they returned to SK relatively recently as she is pregnant. She has repeatedly said that she doesn’t want to raise any children in SK purely because of what she terms as ‘annihilation of childhood’. She loves being back in SK but worries incessantly about when to leave SK again to avoid what she dreads about the pressure-cooker of its educational system/s.
Given the relatively high rates of suicide among young people in SK, this should be a further impetus to seriously consider significant pedagogical reforms to the educational model in SK.

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I knew about high schoolers being under that sort of pressure, but it was shocking and disgusting to see it already starts in elementary school. They've got young kids out late at night, going to academies until 10pm and eating fast food and drinking caffeine for dinner at 10pm and all of that stunting their physical growth. I'm sure Mr.Fart went through the same strict regimen and it broke him. I don't think he has megalomania or anything, but I don't think he is mentally well either. I hope his mom reforms her academy or quits it now that she has seen what her parenting/teaching has done to her son.

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I don't think he is mentally well either.

On the contrary, I do think he's mentally well all round. But I do think he's rebelling, against his mom.
He himself witnessed and experience firsthand the cutthroat rigor these children are passing through, and he's protesting against in despite having graduated from SNU. He, and these children by extension will have gotten the academic excellence that their parents so desire, and possibly them as well although not all of the children. But they didn't have a choice in the matter. I do want to excel academically, but not at the expense of exterminating another aspect of my life. And if it has to happen, let it be my own personal choice as an adult.
But as a child, it's really unfair that these young kids are rubbed of their childhood. That's like putting size 42 shoes on them. They can't handle the heat. Not even all adults can handle the heat that comes with excellent academic excellence, so why let the kids mature before their age under the guise of ' I am worrying for their future '?
Bang Gu-ppong might have succeeded in scaling through that rigorous system, but he doesn't want those children to face the same thing. And while it seems hypocritical that he's rebelling against what made him what he is - a SNU graduate - but truth is, it came at a sacrifice. And he doesn't want the same for the children.

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@jerrykuvira: I think he can be the embodiment of all the profound things that you have said and still be psychologically damaged as trauma can also cause mental illness which can be manageable or so severe that can incapacitate a person. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive. After all, many writers and artists have had profound insights into the human condition, have contributed enormously to our artistic and cultural wealth and have left behind extraordinary legacies but have also been profoundly debilitated by mental illnesses such clinical depression and bipolar disorders throughout their luves.

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I must grudgingly agree with this you on this one.

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I agree as well.
We've already seen the "after" effects of the high-pressure academic atmosphere (remember the suicidal hyung in episode 3?). Being treated like that, at such a young age when you feel voiceless and unable to defy the wishes of your elders/parents, is damaging. It is a type of betrayal at a very deep level to have your parents demand such things of you, and expect you to live in fear of not living up to the standards/failing. I too think Mr. Fart was damaged by his own mother - and he's acting out now to help other kids because nobody helped him.

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"It was shocking and disgusting to see it already starts in elementary school" -- yeah.... hate to break it to you, but it starts in kindergarten. Heck, if you're Gangnam rich I reckon it starts when you're born.
I work as an English tutor as a side job in Seoul and I regulary go to the homes of well-off families where I teach kids that are 4-5 years old. There are even pre-school hagwons. Basically, if you can't read or write basic English (and speak it to some level) by the time you are 7-8 years old, you're seen as "falling behind" and "slow". One of my students is an adorable and super smart boy who excels in science but is not good with languages and, shock and horror, can't read English at 8 years old. So he has not 1 but 2 tutors for it, lol. I feel so bad for him as it's insane to expect so much of kids. Frankly I couldn't read my own language properly before I was 8, nevermind a foreign one with a completely different writing system. But the expectations of kids these days are insane.

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@yolo1986: That poor little bub. And all the others. Thanks for sharing your RL experience and insights. If you have the time and the inclination, could you comment further about whether or not there is widespread acknowledgment of the harmful effects of such a pressured educational system? Tx.

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Okay first, the cases: I really like the way the writers utilised the cases this week to spotlight some really complex issues. There were points where I could empathise with elements of what both defendants were saying but it’s clear that both situations (to varying degrees obviously) were quite nuanced and not easy to justify. Defendant 2 might be sincere in his feelings and YW has a valid point about free will and autonomy but his behaviour is sketch and there were equally valid points that both the mother and prosecutor brought up. Defendant 1 is right in the message he’s advocating for but the means he used was definitely a cause for concern. It was a smart move to have both cases ‘loose’ to show that while Youngwoo is a genius she’s not unrealistically invincible and that clients aren’t always in the right, but do so in a way that didn’t automatically invalidate the various perspectives that were raised. It goes to show that it’s not always an open and shut case when it comes to the law and that the ethical/moral/ideological debates being presented were too nuanced to be simply closed off and so remained as food for thought.

There’s a lot more to say there and I’m sure the more eloquent beanies will be able to put into words what I’m trying and failing to say about the cases, but now to the thing that’s taking up the biggest brain space JUNHO x YOUNGWOO. AHHHHHHHHHHH the confession? The kiss??? Junho going straight for the friend’s throat after what he said at the bar? THE EYELASH (lol he was fighting for his life trying to take that TINY lash off, like sir you could’ve just brushed it off in one second but okay 😂). That has got to be one of the most swoon worthy kiss scenes I’ve ever seen, the silhouettes with the city lights in the backdrop had me just straight up dizzy. What’s even more memorable is that I’m currently quarantining with my mum, so she was subjected to watching me rewinding the ending scene repeatedly at 1am in the morning while looking like I either wanted to cry or set myself on fire or both (she is lowkey concerned). I’m also glad the show is not shying away from discussing how difficult it’ll be for those to two navigate a relationship and deal with outside perceptions but that’s what makes the love all the more sweeter.

Also when she asked him about kissing omg it took me back - tell me I’m not the only who was worried about not knowing what to do when kissing for the first time? I can vividly remember the sheer panic I had with my first boyfriend - feeling so lost because I didn’t quite understand the mechanics of it all and because there was no real way for me to ‘practice’ or anything beforehand either 😂

Lastly, everyone say thank you to Kwon Minwoo for unknowingly pushing Junho to confess to Youngwoo & not coming home early at the end of episode 10.

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@lapislazulii: You’re plenty eloquent yourself! Well said!

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The eyelash scene was hilarious but I was grateful for the proximity and tension.

"Lastly, everyone say thank you to Kwon Minwoo for unknowingly pushing Junho to confess to Youngwoo & not coming home early at the end of episode 10"

🤣 I'm refusing to see any reason to thank him

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I also thought that she lost the case in episode 9. I guess the show did leave it ambiguous, but I disagreed with the weecap on this. I think the triumph at the end comes from the people in the courtroom (especially the defendant's mom) seeing the kids' reaction and realizing that he had a pretty good point. It doesn't negate the fact that he took kids without the consent of their guardians, and I think he is still going to be punished for that, but it made everyone take a step back and think about it more than they had before.

I've really been enjoying the varied outcomes of the cases! Sometimes you have to represent people you don't agree with, sometimes you get a client who is in the wrong, sometimes your opinion of a case evolves over time, and sometimes you just mess up. It feels much more real than a legal drama where the lead just wins all the time, and I'm super here for it.

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“In the end, the defendant is (rightfully) sent to prison”

….hmmmmm. I’m not sure I co-sign on this. He was charged with rape, not fraud. And a 27 year old woman wanted to have sex with him, it seems. Even though she knew he was a bad guy. Which, to be fair, is a pretty common decision of women everywhere no matter their IQ - sometimes a girl just wants to have sex.

I thought the show was pretty clearly highlighting that the judge was totally misreading her anxiety - all of her behaviors seemed to be rooted in the presence of her MOTHER, not the boyfriend. The court attributed all of her negative reactions to trauma instead of fear of her mother getting angry at her. The girl’s cogent enough to avoid saying things in front of her mom, to arrange a secret meeting with a lawyer, and to have a relatively complex understanding of wanting to date a gigolo. But the court and psychiatrist don’t see her as able to have that agency. They’ve totally outsourced her choices to her mother, who isn’t listening.

Honestly this has a lot of commonality with conservatorships (like the one Britney Spears was placed under) and it’s hugely problematic. Did the gigolo deserve to get barred from ever working as a disability aid again? Uh, yeah, I’m pretty sure he violated a lot of client/volunteer contract clauses. But does he deserve to be jailed? Honestly I think the answer is probably “no”, and the court went with the more comfortable recourse of assuming a woman who has been stripped of most decision-making agency is incapable of making the “right” decision, no matter what she actually wants.

It made me sad. Does this poor 27 year old woman never get to kiss or have sex with anyone ever again, because her mom thinks she shouldn’t? Is that actually right, that her mom’s desire to view her as an innocent child means she’s trapped in the psychologist’s diagnosis of her as a 13 year old? Do a lot of 13 year olds go to barista school and hold a job, as the psychologist ALSO said she could do? So you can work, but can’t sleep with a guy.

I don’t like conservatorships, especially ones that are not regularly re-evaluated. Disabled and damaged people need to be able to still make choices and mistakes. Conservators tend to exclude those opportunities for the conservatee’s “safety” but more commonly it seems to be a matter of control and preference.

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All of her behaviors seemed to be rooted in the presence of her MOTHER, not the boyfriend. The court attributed all of her negative reactions to trauma instead of fear of her mother getting angry at her.

It's true, I think the mother is some kind of control freak, and in fact she is pretty "talented" to control those who are mentally challenged.

I may even go one step further: parallel that "freaky" mom with another mother in this show ... CEO Tae of Taesan ... I don't even want to talk about it ...

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I found the psychologists diagnosis condescending.

No one can protect themselves from actors with bad intent who are intent of deceit - intellectual disability or not. We have millions of men and women being disappointed or outright deceived everyday in the context of romantic/intimate relationships. Saying HY can’t protect herself from something like that as the reason she couldn’t have consented is setting a higher standard of consent for the disabled than so called normal people.

The little vignette with SuYeon’s date and clubbing showed that. She left the Chef that we the audience is a nice guy to go clubbing and find a possibly not so nice one-night stand. If the clubbing guy turns out to be a douche no one would argue that SuYeon is unable to protect herself and therefore shouldn’t date or have sex!

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also... I'm not a psycologist myself or anything close to that, but just like her doctor said that she was trained growing up to be socially active, getting a job, etc.. can't she also learn about consent, sex, romantic relationships? we all learn these things at the end of the day. and all of us also know that despite knowing this, we can't still fall for trash people.
the parallel between the case and suyeon's dating experience was really well done

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I know, I really wish instead of having to think about this issue while she was being grilled on the witness stand, HY could have had a supportive conversation about it with someone she trusts. She is not stupid, but everyone can use instruction on consent, and if she had been in a safe environment without her mom (and worrying about what her mom would think), I think it would have been so much easier for her to sort out her own feelings.

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The hallmark of autism is deficit in social interactions and communication. So no matter how high in the spectrum they are, complex social concepts and interactions will need some work first. Yes, they can indeed learn about it but it will take some effort, in some cases, even years. To a neurotypical person like us, sitting on a chair is almost automatic, we did not have to be taught how to do it, for an autistic person, they need to break it down into steps and leaen each step one ar a tome. I.e, 1) go near the chair, 2) turn around , 3) bend your legs , 4 place your butt on the chair, 5) put your hands on your knees, 6) wait for 10 seconds. Then repeat and extend for several seconds more until you can endure an hour or more. Also need to practice sitting on different types of chairs, hard, soft, tall, low, etc. Then only then they can also start learning that there are situations when to sit on a chair, when not to.. that takes time.

Now for high functioning autistics, replace sitting on a chair with for example, building a relationship with a stranger.

That is how complex that scenario was.

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, I juat hoped I coukd explain why learning social interactions for autistic persons take time.

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And the people who care for disabled people need to understand their role, which is not to protect their charge from the entire world so they never get hurt, but to build an environment where a mistake isn’t devastating or permanent. And part of that might mean getting your charge on birth control, and then talking with a counselor about how to best support a dating routine.

Does that mean open season on dating and your kid goes to a motel with a support worker? Uh, no. But does that mean your kid brings their crush home and you make damn sure that crush knows you are a trusted and integral part of your kid’s life, and that most of these early dates will be in the theme of 1950s style family-friendly courtships? Yeah, probably.

I think conservators confuse “support” and “protect” a lot. I understand why, because of all the childlike comparisons and a parent is the last one who wants to think of their kid having sex, but… It’s there. Can’t ignore it.

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I find interesting the new profession "sex assistant". They're sex worker but with a formation to work with people who has a handicap (physical or mental).

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I’ve heard about the “sex assistant” thing, which is probably a step beyond what most people envision here (a blend of a sex worker and a therapist) but yes. Removes the hazard of a partner who may accidentally be hurtful. There’s the problem of the patient getting romantically overinvested of course, but that’s a known therapy hazard.

One common use case seems to be wounded warriors, who often have a blend of physical, mental and emotional changes. Experiencing touch and sex with someone who is trained to handle those circumstances seems like a good idea for all involved including future partners. No one wants to discover a new tic while rounding third base for the first time.

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oh, don't be sorry. as I said, I don't have any deep knowledge about the subject and that's why watching this drama and commenting here has been such a delight. I have learned a lot of things.

I imagine it would be hard thing to do, but considering she has a some level of adult social life, I would think that sex, consent would also have to be taught, for her own safety. it would probably be difficult for her to learn, but still something that her doctor should do.

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It was an interesting story. Then you have Su Yeon coming in to protect Young Woo in much the same way as the mama. I had so many questions on this. Why was the woman not sequestered with her daughter in another room to follow the proceedings after her outburst? Why did they not declare a mistrial then and there as what she said biased the jury? Why not clear the court when the daughter testified even having mama leave? The prosecutor could take care of her. Why was mama just allowed to roll up on Young Woo like that? Why don't they teach Young Woo how to handle personal attacks? She gets them a lot. In this case I would have taught her to say "ma'am, I know this case is stressful, but let the talking be done in the courtroom." Or I would have put mama on the stand and asked her to repeat what she said in the hallway and then pick it apart... I don't know... It just has disturbed me that they leave her open to attacks. Maybe it's because I'm from the USA where someone might shoot you.

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With the mom attacking WYW, it’s not that WYW doesn’t know how to respond - it’s that she kind of can’t in that moment, and even with a ton of training likely couldn’t.

Imagine being asked to do a simple math problem in your head, and then suddenly the lights go nuts and a blend of noises blare directly into your ears and there’s wind and people start shoving you and hail rains from the sky. That’s the equivalent sensory overload burden that some autistic people experience when someone is shouting at them and being physically aggressive in posture. It is literally too much to handle that complete sensory assault AND still operate. You could also probably use the old Running Man wind-blast karaoke game as a comparison - the neurotypical player is so totally overwhelmed by listening for a flaw in their co-singer’s recital and apprehensive about the wind-blast that they literally cannot sing a children’s song. They just can’t focus.

But to those of us on the outside, we can’t see the battle the autistic person is going through to just stay focused and present in that moment. And sometimes, that pause is seen as being “slow” or “dumb” rather than experiencing levels of sensitivity most of the rest of us will never feel.

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Thank you, these analogies are so helpful.

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As much as I love this drama, every legal case has left me with questions like this. I just ignore my own questions at this point.

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To clarify, I mean questions about the mechanics of how courtrooms work. I fully appreciate the nuances that the cases have brought to us all, and they far outshine the moments of wondering things like, why isn’t the bailiff removing the yelling Mother?

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"Why isn’t the bailiff removing the yelling Mother?"
Because it's a K-drama, lol. You're not watching a documentary, it's not a perfectly accurate depiction of reality :)

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Royal Kiss Analyst Files: Entry 7

Total Length (including intermission): 1:47
Cut Scenes (from first move in, including intermission): 16/17 (I lost count twice because I was distracted by ... ya know... it being cute and endearing af)
No. of Extant Camera Angles/Shots: 9

Comparatively, by numbers alone, this is decent, but not amazing.
However, if we taken into account that much of these cuts are during the intermission, and are there to contribute to the narrative structure of the conversation, the awkwardness and emotion involved, and that the kiss itself only has about 6 cuts (spread over two kisses) and 4 camera "angles", all of which are just a variation of the same angle and shot, just progressively more zoomed out, AND the excellent directing and writing of the scene overall , from him stepping back to allow her to lead, to the lighting, to the delightful awkwardness and softness, to the silhouette framing especially at the end, then that places it much higher in the grand scheme of things, because a good kiss scene is just as much about the composition of the SCENE as it is the kiss itself.
You see, it's really not that hard to just have one level angle to focus on a kiss, and for anything additional to be there to only add to the story, not detract from it.
It's really. Not. That hard. *glares at the history of kdrama kisses*

Additional Requisite Analyses*:
Hand placement/movement: 9/10 (HANDS ON WAIST YAY. Necessarily awkward otherwise, so no points deducted for that!)
Lip action: 8/10 (Appropriate for the characters. Additional points for the intermission teaching lesson.)
Male lead AND Female lead's hand structure: 10/10
Atmosphere: 9/10 (the moody blues and purples, the background night lights, the lighting...)
Song: 8/10 (iss fine, it was cute, it set the mood)
Overall ranking: the biggest and most adorable bunch melona bars you can find. yes they come in bunches now, and grow on the slopes of Melonia's mountains. Like flowers.
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*rankings use an arbitrary form of melonia measurement known only by Her Royal Highness, and will not be justified compared to past rankings or inconsistencies.

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Your professional and very serious analysis made me chuckle and grin. Thank you.
It is a kiss deserving of bunches of Melona bars (which are finally stocked in my city. Finally).

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(hehehehe you're welcome *finger hearts*)

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Thank you for this breakdown of the categories. When I first came to K dramaland the multi angled/cuts kiss scenes were the most distinguishing feature of a Korean rom com. That and the standing apart staring at each other shot. Now I finally have an explanation for why I fast forward some kiss scenes and not others.

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Click on the Comparatively link, you'll enjoy the first 6 entries then 🤣🤣

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Thank you❤️ I didn’t register why it was blue so technically illiterate 😳

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I have got stitch now because of the Hotel Del Luna comments on your post. I keep getting hysterical break out fits of laughter at the hand placement references.
Thank you so much I have had my proper belly laugh for the day.

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*tries to resist the urge to just link you all the ridiculous things I've ever written to contribute to your belly laugh quota*

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Seriously you would be doing me a favour so as long as you are not using it as an avoidance strategy to doing your real world important stuff please do go ahead. I will do a post on the fan wall and then you can just link them there and save your fan wall being messed up.

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It makes me curious, what is your favourite kiss scene(s) in Kdrama?

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Heh... I've no idea. I don't really know if I have one... It kinda depends on the day... the month... the season... I'll let you know if I ever figure it out lmao.

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So the more concise response: "most of them" ;)

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Mmm no actually knowing me probably the opposite lol

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I seriously want to punch that Minwoo in the face ! How many times has he come at YW ? How many times have people spoken to him on his behaviour? And yet he still keeps going. It's like he enjoys it, what does revealing her birth secret help you with ? The previous actions could be competition related but her birth secret does nothing for him work wise. Work aside he's an arse of a human being. I honestly don't care for a redemption arc for him and care less that he's starting to develop feelings for SY, my girl deserves better.
I initially thought there might be a thing with Geurami but that's clearly not happening and I'd rather it not, he's too far gone for me now.
Sorry I had to vent, he just kills my buzz.
That aside, great episodes as always. Loved how YW asking on kissing etiquette and how JH guided her along.

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I agree with you! I hope Geurami finds out what kind of guy Minwoo is and bashes him up...

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That I would LOVE to see!

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I would literally pay money to watch her and Min Sik stalk Min Woo and beat him senseless. With broccoli.

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The recap came out really fast. Wheew.
This is going to be long so be warned.

As much as I want to spend ALL of my comment gushing about our whale couple, the writer has given us these cases to dissect and I always do my homework.

The writer has placed these two cases together for a reason.

Both of these cases have two very important thing in common:

1) The victims were people under the guardian ship of another so their consent ultimately did not matter. It didn't matter that the kids wanted to escape from their academy or if Hyeyoung actually wanted to have sex with the gigolo. Their consent LEGALLY didn't matter. The laws were obviously made to protect the most vulnerable in the society but they also created loopholes.

2) Both cases ignored parental abuse because of the perceived maturity of the victims. Studying for more than 7 hours without food or rest AFTER SCHOOL. WOW. How could anyone not see that those children really needed that day of freedom and relaxation? And Hyeyoung's mom really wants to keep control over her daughter forever. Hyeyoung was more worried about her mother finding out about her sexual encounters than anything.

These cases really blew my mind because they are so grey. *Chef's kiss.

Now to the romance:

1) The chivalry: Lee Jun Ho got wooed so bad. Poor boy was so confused. I LOVED IT SO MUCH.

2) The confession: He was so out of breath. When will a sweaty, heaving Lee Jun Ho confess his feelings for me?

3) The hand-holding: She didn't last 57 seconds. She tried but she didn't have to. I don't know if they are going to last but LEE JUN HO is going to be so loved. The list of date ideas was so long. SHE IS KILLING THIS ROMANCE THING.

4) The bar fight: Why are almost all of Lee Jun Ho's friends trash?

5) The kiss: It was so cute and awkward. Just as all first kisses should be. Woo Young woo asking for tips and then IMMEDIATELY putting them to practice. She has always been a good student. The setting was perfect too. The green lights. The consent. The arms around her waist. Perfection.

Now to rewatch while waiting for the next episode.

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So interesting! I did not connect the first case to consent or tie the two cases together in this way. Thank you for a new perspective.
Hmm...which Lee Jun Ho? I would welcome either 😉

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Oh, good point about his friends! He is Minwoo’s roommate. At the beginning of the show , Junho is portrayed to be adept at making everyone like him- he is good at social pleasing. However, he also seemed tired of the game, of giving more then getting, and everyone being in love with the idea of being in love with him. I could see that being a social pleaser might make one go along with the flow with friends and not examine them really well.
This is also, though, why he is immediately taken with Young-woo. She is completely authentic in a way that is incredibly beautiful but can be seen as socially awkward, lying to socially please is near impossible for her, and her deep relationships are so real. She is what he needs, and his very high social IQ is helpful to her in exchange.

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That is a very likely explanation for his friendship problem. Until he attacked the guy at the bar, he really seemed like a go with the flow kind of person. Even when he called out Kwon min woo, he wasn't explicit in either situations. Kwon Min woo didn't even know why he shoved him.

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I don't attribute Min Woo's obliviousness to Jun Ho not being explicit. Jun Ho was pissed off - that was amply communicated. Min Woo being oblivious to why is just because he doesn't think he ever does anything wrong.

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Two cases in this week’s episode resonate with me well.
I just had a long conversation with my son’s teacher, he is now on 11th grade.
How we, parents, school, government, have a lot of expectations from young generations. Parents want to have succesul kids (in whatever sense), schools want to have smart kids to raise their rating, government expect brilliant children as the future leaders. All of them, all those heavy burdens, fall on our children’s shoulders. Why? Why they have to be the ones to carry those responsibilities?
I’m maybe one of those minority who prefers their children to grow with healthy mind, body and soul. They should become humans, not just people or persons.
While they are also a part of society, they have to be able to love and appreciate themselves.
Is it wrong to just kidnap those kids? Yes of course. But at the same time the case wants to bring the harsh reality of how parents treat their children.
Is it a rape? Nobody knows, but yes, no one has a right to validate someone’s or other people’s feeling.
The case exposes how society sometimes behave like they know better than others, this time people with disabilities.

This week’s highlight os of course the kiss. My heart is whoa whoa too much to elaborate the scene. I will leave them to fellow beanies with stronger heart.

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Oh and mommy Sumi. She’s a one real egomaniac. I’m almost ashame to expect that she has even a slight of regret after giving up Youngwoo.

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I am going to be the contrarian here.

Loved everything about both episodes, except for the KISS. It was way out of character for someone who could barley hold hands for less than 57 seconds a few days ago or less! It seems a gratuitous nod to "swoon" fans.

To be believable characters need to be consistent in their "personality" and circumstances. Young-woo is growing and changing as she experiences a world larger than her father's protected circle and will continue to do so, but not in giant steps like this.

Both of the "trial" stories serve to both educate Young-woo and to counterpoint her position in life and society. Both deal with important social/ ethical issues about children and their parents and parental control and the degrees to which that can be a good thing and a bad thing. Over protective and over driving parents don't always produce healthy adults who can cope with the real world. To some degree, Young-Woo's father is also guilty of over protecting and hence inhibiting his daughter's growth. It it a fine line and difficult decisions that parent have to make and be aware that they are making the correct choice for the child and not for the parent's sake, parent's reputation, honor, sense of worth, etc.

Both episode narratives speak in profound ways about this parent/child dynamic and how complex and difficult it is to know and do the right thing Both cases allow Young-woo to learn not only more about the larger world, but also learn things abut herself and how to better navigate that noisy external world.

I loved the scene in the previous episode when she stood under the tree of knowledge with her mother in both the actual scene and in the recalled scene.

I loved the use of comedy in Young-Woo's attempts to be "nice" and in the dinner-date scene with "Harry" and Su-Yeon; it was good comedy and counterpoint about female - male courtship relationships.
Another counterpoint obviously was the relationship between the "Giglio" and the "handicapped" girl, etc.

Taesan CEO Tae Su-Mi is revealed to be just whom we thought she was - smart, ambitious to a fault, media savvy, narcistic and intent on having her way. Recall the scene when we first meet her - the interview with the reporter and how many shelves of framed certificates and awards she had promptly displayed and how she "worked" the reporter to get her story out as she wanted to be viewed.

Her story is gong to get out - but not how she envisions and the wildcard in all of this is Kwon Min-Woo - the tactician!

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To be believable characters need to be consistent in their "personality" and circumstances. Young-woo is growing and changing as she experiences a world larger than her father's protected circle and will continue to do so, but not in giant steps like this.

I most definitely agree with this especially 'not in giant steps like this'.
However, this is a 1 season drama, so we can't see the strides spread over a more realistic timeframe.

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In defense of the kiss being more than fan service, I don't think it's unrealistic for Young Woo to have different levels of being comfortable with different types of touch/intimacy. I think the show made it clear that Young Woo still can't hold his hand for more than 57 seconds even after the kiss hence holding hands can wait. So it's not like she made an unrealistic progress, it's just that kissing doesn't give her the same sensation lik