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Open Thread #811

Happy Friday everyone!

Here is your Open Thread, which is here for you to chat about anything you want, whether it be drama-related or not. Nothing’s off-topic here! Spoilers may be rife, so proceed accordingly.

 
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A Korean newspaper, Chosen Ilbo, reported that current reasons for divorce are changing from personality differences, domestic violence and adultery to unequal division of labor and living costs at home. One divorce attorney said, "One woman seeking legal advice even brought an excel spreadsheet showing the share of housework her husband did and how much the couple split responsibility on childrearing responsibilities and living costs. Younger couples these days feel there is no reason to continue their relationship if the other side fails to take on an equal division of labor.”

According to legal sources, most of the married couples seeking divorce these days are in their mid-30s to early 40s, who have fallen out in the first few years of marriage. It also does not depend on whether the couple has children. This is a major shift away from older couples being the largest group in the recent past (pre-pandemic.)

"The concept that a married couple are an economic collective no longer applies," another divorce attorney said. In the past, married couples pooled their financial resources to cover their costs and make investments. But nowadays, while they may open a joint bank account for running costs, they manage their own money separately.

"Some people even accuse their spouse of using money from their joint bank account for personal use," the attorney said. "But mainly arguments occur over how many hours each spouse dedicated a week to housework or who drove on the way to visit the in-laws and who paid for the fuel."

Another lawyer said, "The older generation might think that younger couples are refusing to yield or understand each other when it comes to housework and childrearing, younger couples seem to view the equal division of work as rational. Marriage is not seen as being about sacrificing yourself for the happiness of your family but as a path to your own happiness."

The lawyer added, "Sometimes I think my clients approach the division of housework too rigidly, and even couples with children seem to be opting for divorce too. There is also a feeling that young people view marriage as a means to improve their future prospects and achieve prosperity, rather than as a union of lovers.”

Roh Jung-tae at the Research Institute for Economy and Society said, "The concept of marriage and gender roles is anchored weakly in Korea due to its rapid industrialized it is now crumbling quickly and couples are reluctant to give up even a little of their rights."

Suh Yi-jong at Seoul National University said, "Young people in their 30s and 40s are the generation who put importance on defending their rights and being independent they grew up. The positive is that we are seeing more equality in marriage, but the downside is that couples are becoming less understanding, more insistent on their ow and increasingly jump to divorce when anything goes wrong."

It seems now independent living young people in Korea will only...

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give up their freedom for a equal marital partnership, which is contrary to traditional society rules and expectations. I wonder if this trend will be picked up in future dramas.

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I sure hope so!

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Having that mindset, they shouldn't marry at all. It's a well known fact that in marriage there's no "I", "me", "mine" but "we" "us" and "ours". Marriage is a unification of two individuals coexisting as one.
The problem with our generation is that they are marrying with divorce in their minds.

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This relationships sound more like roommates than family. More like living with rivals?

I wonder if things would be different if the couples started to live together before getting married (I'm assuming they don't because dramas).

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When I look at the timing of this current divorce trend, I think many of these couples were created during the pandemic lockdowns.

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😀😃😀😀

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I agree that the relationships sound like roommates. I would care who was paying for gas on a trip with friends or acquaintances, but not when I'm just with my partner. I get wanting to make sure no one person is doing everything, but this seems really extreme to me.

They "will only give up their freedom for an equal marital partnership". Sure, but 1. "giving up freedom" feels like the wrong attitude to have about marriage and 2. how exacting does the "equal" part need to be? My partner and I have a pretty good division of labor, but it varies week to week and was different when I was in grad school.

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Yeah.
If one of them is having a hard time what I would expect is a little of patience and support from their partner, not keeping tabs on them. 😆
But Idk, since their values are based on "individual happiness" and "improvement of their future prospects and achieve prosperity, rather than as a union of lovers", maybe it makes sense for them to act like roommates. Maybe that's what they agreed on since the beginning.

What actually worries me is the last part "the downside is that couples are becoming less understanding, more insistent on their ow and increasingly jump to divorce when anything goes wrong". Some of these couples have kids, and the children are the ones that suffer the most in these kind of situations. Plus, they're learning really... interesting values.

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That's the thing, there's no "individual happiness" in marriage, it's always about the family, when the family is happy automatically you'll be happy. Marriage has got it's own rules and Divorce is not one of them, just like religion, work, even cults have their own rules. All these comes down to responsibility.

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That actually sounds like a fun drama premise to me.

I think there was an American show about a divorced couple that still lived together (though it was cancelled & I don't remember what it's called)

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I know of a person who still live in the same building as her ex husband. They live on different floors, though. The cool thing is that the whole building belongs to the ex husband, but he let his ex-wife live there together.

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Well, I don't think that would work in these case since the couples are getting divorced because one of them is being a bad roomie.

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From what I understand, people often go from living with their parents to living with their spouses.
I don't think I've ever seen a drama or heard a story of a real life couple living together first.

I once saw some report that said that those who *don't* live together first had longer marriages. I really don't get how that would work. It would seem like it would be better to know if can really deal with another person, warts & all, over a prolonged period of time. While you're dating and even sleeping over on occassion, wouldn't you still be on your best behavior? And then wouldn't you *still* be on your best behavior during the honeymoon period?

In the drama My Familiar Wife (I think that's what it was called) one of the things the husband complained about was the wife using the toilet while he taking a bath. He was like "she's not the princess I married" or something like that.

Wouldn't couples need to see each other as their real selves instead of idealized versions?

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Two 2018 studies had opposite conclusions on cohabitation before marriage. One concluded cohabs less likely to divorce in first year of marriage but more likely in long run. The other stated cohabs were less likely to divorce in the long run based on their peers. Both studies apparently did not get into detail on the couples communication, conflict resolution or other important factors such as children and finances.

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Living together before marriage in dramas is pretty rare but I remember it being a subplot in show I watched early on (and cannot remember the title). It sent me down an MDL rabbit hole because I can only picture the face of the rich boyfriend and something about buying a large sofa that wouldn't fit in their shared rooftop room. Seems as though the theme concerned three women friends and their philosophies about marriage. AAARG, this will drive me crazy all day.

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That sounded like the second couple in Because this is my first life. The sofa ended up out on the roof top in the end. That’s what made your description ring a bell.

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YES!!! I knew the Beanie hive-mind would solve this. I loved Because This is My First Life but I seem to associate it only with the main couple. Esom and her bra problems and the rooftop couple were wonderful as well. Time for e re-watch!!

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“There is also a feeling that young people view marriage as a means to improve their future prospects and achieve prosperity, rather than as a union of lovers.”

So, back to Joseon, just not the parents arranging the marriage for future prospects and prosperity 😉

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Freedom is my basic need 😉. Sometimes it is not a matter of being 'equal' but something that makes sense.

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You watch those K-dramas where the aging wife scurries around fetching glasses of water for her patriarch husband and you wonder why she doesn't dump the water over his head.

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I've seen this type of servitude in real life and wondered the same damn thing.

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You are describing my mother in law here. I once watched her fetch the salt and pepper shakers and offered to apply them to my father in laws food 🤯
I’ve seen him rinse his coffee cup in cold water (no soap) and place it in the cupboard and praise himself for doing a great job of helping around the house.
There was a sink full of dirty dishes that needed cleaning 😭
I also can’t understand how or why she has put up with this. But she loves him and doesn’t want to leave him and sees nothing wrong in her actions. Everyone is different I guess. The best I can do is support the choices she has made and not be too judgmental (out loud at least)
I certainly don’t have this level of servitude for her son. 🤭

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I think naturally in life things won’t always be exactly equal (like one of you will have more on at work that week/be sick/have a close friend’s wedding to go to so the other will do more of drudge work that week) and that’s fine, it’s just if it’s always one way it’s a problem).
I think if you go in with that expectation it’s more reasonable - but if you get to the point where one person feels so put upon they have to keep tabs there’s bound to be resentment.

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Equality is overrated otherwise we wouldn't have GIVEN cases

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I meant GBV

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You gotta love a good spreadsheet. Good girl. Labour division should be equal in a marriage but it not always is. I know I was super frustrated with my other half by the end of last week for not doing his fair share around the house. He redeemed himself this morning by doing the vacuuming and putting a load of laundry on. God bless him. The Cold War has now ended 😘
I remember when we first moved in together and I refused to do his washing. His mother was very upset and told me to put it into a bag and she would wash it for him. I very politely told her he was a big boy and could learn to do his own laundry like every other grown up. I had to teach him how to iron. He’s been helping me around the house ever since (sometimes he needs a reminder but that’s okay) Don’t be shy to call out bad behaviour and express your expectations. Marriage is not easy and everyone needs to put in and work together. Teamwork is fun. Slave labour is not.

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Hi @suzeso, this is a bit out of the blue (and unrelated to your excellent comment above - “Teamwork is fun. Slave labour is not.” should be in every couple’s handbook, in my opinion!🤣), but I couldn’t help but notice that you sound like you might be from the UK? Are you anywhere near London? I ask because a bunch of us beanies are meeting up in person at the Victoria and Albert Museum in a couple weeks, in case you fancy joining us!😊

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I live in Australia 🥲 otherwise I’d love to catch up with some fellow beanies. Thanks for the invite though 😊

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Ah, what a shame! There are a number of you in the antipodes - if only we weren’t such a long way away!😔

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I love this interesting Korea Times article about actor Park Bo-gum showed off his piano skills in collaboration with Taeyang. It was the live version of Seed from Taeyang's recent EP Down to Earth.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2023/05/398_350409.html

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Although sometimes the cross over is not entirely successful, its impressive how many musician/actors are in the Korean entertainment industry. Obviously that kind of connection (or pipeline) has always existed to some degree in Hollywood as well. But its not the easiest combination, especially if the music side involves skill in an instrument or a beautiful singing voice, things that are pretty hard to fake, no matter how good an actor might be at playing a role (which is itself hard.)

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I think the hard road for a trainee to debut as an idol is one reason they chose acting as a fall-back career. But that does not guarantee success. The other reason is that even successful idols may be underused by their labels (thus having little income) so they turn to acting as means to make a living.

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Kim Sejeong is of course a premiere singer and former girl group member as well as an actor. What came as a surprise, last year, was her natural talent for musical theater.

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I watched some parts of Red Book on YouTube and she was great.

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I didn't know anything about her until Business Proposal, where she impressed me as a wonderful comic actress. She is really multi-talented!

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Season - now feels like summer - spring to summer to rainy to slightly cold to spring to summer - what an eventful 9 weeks.

heat wave to rain to hailstorm to heat - not much boost

every place around this had good - heat wave - rain - hails but this place is casually boring - how come this place is so lucky aka secure.

I still think that big summer storm is up - the only event this place see.

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Need large n wide roads - 2 lane, 4 lane - aim at trees - this place took care of more than 275k trees for that -you need more for building houses n infra - aim at trees - this isn't beautiful system n architecture - lobbying does that - this is y infra system is the biggest source of corruption - high investment, debt and even higher returns - high risk, high stakes, few beneficiaries - consumer aka voter claps n enjoys n call it progress n development. growth is at the cost of resources but people feel like it's fair value cost - then cry hoarse when time to pay the price - silly.

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Sharing is caring, all for one one for all - promote n propagate knowledge - look good in words but hardly anyone does in the world - every1 wants 2 milk as much as they can - even intentionally protect others gaining knowledge then talk about this n that - typical of facemasks.

I always supported public libraries - peaceful atmosphere - good print media at almost no cost - yeah yeah run on tax money but returns quite good.

so many newspapers, magazines and costly books openly provided to every section of society - I almost saved 2k each month on newspapers n magazines alone every single month - not need to talk about academic material available

Someone can be a crybaby, casual for spoiled privileged ones but you can't undermine the value of this simple yet highly profitable facility for the welfare of society.

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The NYtimes is really increasing their reporting on issues in S. Korea and the relationship to the US . This article is tough (just a warning). https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/02/world/asia/korea-us-comfort-women-sexual-slavery.html

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When a country increases their reporting on other countries' issues it nearly always means their inside turmoil and unrest is increasing.

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On what do you base this?
The NYT also ran a lengthy article this week about the success of young SK pastry chefs in SK and around the world.

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I'm just a news consumer, so the best I can do is guess. NYTimes has increasingly over the years pulled more and more away from local coverage to focus more on international coverage becoming more of an international paper then a ny/nyc news source that it was in the past. I would also guess that there is some influence based on NY having a very large Korean-American population. I can't speak to the issue of turmoil, but certainly S. Korea is important economically, politically and most important for all of us----important in entertainment. I read that pastry chef article, thought it was very interesting. I meant to post that one, but this came out just a day or two after.

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The pastry article is on my fanwall for anyone who’s interested! I maintain that these young chefs were inspired by Kim Sam Soon! 😁🍰

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The NYT has been covering a lot of stories about South Korea in a variety of areas: politics, economy, art, weather events, the declining birth rate, cultural traditions, et al. They’ve recently published a couple of articles that may be of particular interest to Beanies:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/07/arts/television/the-glory-netflix-south-korea.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/13/world/asia/south-korea-jung-chae-yull-dead.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

They still haven’t been including South Korean content in their lists of best shows on the various streaming services. They’ve gotten some criticism over this in the comments sections, with readers especially indignant about the lack of recognition for EXTRAORDINARY ATTORNEY WOO.

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The increased reporting on difficult issues in S. Korea in the U.S-- which is also evident in another paper I read regularly, the Los Angeles Times-- ironically reflects the global economic and cultural success of Korea in the 21st century. Obviously, all of us here on this site have a lot of interest in Korea which we might not have otherwise. Then, too the increasing prominence and success of second/third generation Korean Americans in U.S. politics and culture plays a role.

But this tragic issue is really more a story of the close ties between U.S. military-imperialism and colonial sexual exploitation than a story just about Korea. I am thinking--and also hopeful-- that awareness of this issue reflects the (slow) gender diversification of the U.S. military, shaking up long standing practices. Armed forces are not humane institutions, but at least they can operate in a way respectful of some basic human rights.

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I read awhile ago, I forget where, that some 20% of young Korean women 'monetize their sexuality' I think was the term used.
I couldn't shake the idea that the K-drama 'Her Private Life' was a sanitized, PG-13 retelling of a story of an upscale prostitute who wanted to get out of the business.

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Did you mean Love in Contract?

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Sigh - Yes. Love in Contract, and there's no edit feature. Though 'Her Private Life' is a bit suspect too.

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Why would her private life be suspect? Her "private life" was that she was a fangirl.

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I saw this as well, it was sickening, and you're right about the increased coverage of SK. Last week the Times also covered SK's president singing "American Pie" at the White House. Was it kicked off by the popularity of "Parasite," then BTS which is on half the magazine covers at the supermarket and also Squid Game? I've also spotted increased Korean entrees at Trader Joe and more Korean sauces at ordinary grocery stores. Kind of interesting.

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I've seen a general change in NYtimes coverage for a while now. It has moved alway from local NY/NYC city news and is more international in scope. I bet it is more of a marketing reason as it becomes more of an international/USA news source as opposed to a local NYC paper. More and more of the subscription dollars must be coming from outside NY. I think also NYC and the metro area is home to so many international communities including Korean that the paper is really just representing the people of NY and what they are interested in reading. They probably have also added more diverse writers which broadens the coverage. Of course, I'm just guessing. I was shocked when I first read articles in the Times that were reviewing Korean dramas, it is how I found out about dramas from Korea and started watching (and that predates BTS/Squid Game). I've seen so many more Korean foods in the stores, and restaurants are opening all around. I've even seen Korean foods at Costco!!!

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I'm not married, I don't date, and I have no interest in relationships so this is just me thinking as objectively as possible. If people decide to get married, it *should* be a partnership (unless for whatever reason people want to be in specific roles). I have never understood why it was so looked down on for a guy to be able to know how to take of a home or the kids or for a woman to be more of a business minded person. I totally get that after the pandemic people reevaluated their lives because it was one of those moments when you realize "life is entirely too short for this B.S".

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I wish the society in which I live, accepts this as a norm. Heck, all patriarchial societies need to respect individual opinions on marriage/relationship

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I've fallen down a fandom rabbit hole and man, it is painful when you see the person you like going through hard times. It's like having your sibling or kid going through mistreatment and being absolutely powerless to do anything but just wait for things to play out.

I wonder if fans of Yoo Ah In (I think that's his name) feel like this. Like yeah, he did the thing but amount of criticism and degradation he is being put through seems so overwhelming. I saw he's even considered a snitch in addition to being an addict.
They really like diminishing a person to their most negative aspects.

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@stpauligurl once told me 99% of the B.S. people tell you has to do with them and not with you. I just think this reflects the reality of SK people: they seem to be deeply unhappy.

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Must put in my two cents here because the reality of SK people is hard to brand as 'deeply unhappy' from my perspective. I was in and out of Seoul for business about twice a month for seven years and have friends there. I visited them just before Covid and I'm going again in the fall. If anyone asked me, I'd say that Koreans are quite outgoing, cheerful, curious, helpful and oh so polite. But then again, I'm sure you'll meet some who aren't. And yes, I'm sure they complain about life, government and long waits to get into a popular restaurant, but many of the unhappy headlines that appear in the paper aren't part of their own daily lives...just like it isn't in North America where mass shootings and the huge amount of homelessness we read about still thankfully feel a bit distant from our own neighbourhoods. We're so lucky, but anything could happen in an instant and change our lives. I remember many discussions about North Korea and its nuclear threat to South Korea, but my friends shrugged it off saying that the North has historically always made threats but never acted on them. They aren't as worried as I was and I don't live there. Also, being Kdrama fans, we often read about sad or distasteful reports around their popular musicians & actors, but these stories almost sound identical to our own troubled celebrities and those of many others globally. Famous people often have common & dramatic problems because they 'are' famous. Not saying there are no dark undercurrents in Korean society, but we also have them too, so I guess other countries can brand us as being 'deeply unhappy' as well. Not a Korean problem, but an 'us' problem everywhere in this world. One last point? I think watching fictional Kdramas often gives us the wrong impression of real Koreans and their lives, which would be the same as others assuming that our own TV series like 'White Lotus', 'Russian Doll' and 'The Blacklist' reflect the true america. Watching through the lens of those viewpoints, someone might call us deeply unhappy too.

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Thanks for sharing to widen the discussion re living somewhere and what we assume when we only get a partial perspective.

I was in Florida on holiday when they were reporting on the high risk to travellers going to Jamaica. I found that really funny when my understanding is that the same drugs and violence they were raising as a concern were also very present in that State.

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Thanks for putting in your two cents! I might be too rash into forming that conclusion. I think it was partly because I read some article sometime ago saying something like the majority of young SK people would choose to go to the States than being in their home country as they thought it was too competitive and gave too much attention to outer appearance. It yes, I agree that every place has its own problems. I have to acknowledge the extent to which K celebrities are watched/judged by their netizens there though.

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From what I've seen, netizens can be an unforgiving bunch but I agree with @charbarn that it can't really be chalked up to being "deeply unhappy". It's more complex but it's still sad the way entertainers are treated. It's really like they are no longer supposed to be actual human beings because they entered the entertainment industry.

Being 100% honest, I kinda judge people if I learn they're addicts or have criminal records. For example, once upon a time, some guy murdered his actress ex girlfriend outside her house and he was imprisoned for it. He served his time, got out, changed his name, and moved states. When I learned this, I was still kinda disgusted that he was able to just move on with his life after changing his name even though he had legally served his time (personally I don't think he served enough time but I digress). My point is I totally get judging people or being critical of people or being disappointed about the unfairness of the world but at what point should people just be allowed to live their lives? They made a choice, it could be a bad choice, but how long are people supposed to criticize & shame them for it?

In the case of Yoo Ah In, his career maybe over and is that totally fair? When technically he hadn't hurt anyone? No one even knew about it until it was discovered however it was discovered. How long should he be seen as just a criminal & addict instead of a talented actor or just a person who messed up? I'm not even a fan of his but his situation is one of the most current things I know about.

I may have gone on a rambling tangent. I'm a bit emotional as I'm writing this haha

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I judge people, too. For me, it depends on the crime the person committed. If the crime involves hurting other people physically or mentally, then that’s the end game for me. Please go on living your life, but I’ll choose to support others in terms of work, and ofc I don’t wanna be anywhere near you. If the crime doesn’t involve hurting others physically or mentally (e.g., YAI’s case) I’ll only think of them as they having some personal problem and it won’t affect my liking for their work.

For YAI, I just want him to take time to recover and come back again as a great actor he’s always been (if he chooses to).

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@mmmmm I just saw a korean actor who had only just really got into acting, he had only 2 prior roles and the 3rd was supposed to bigger, had his entire career stalled because his ex girlfriend claimed he cheated on her and he broke covid restrictions. The covid things may have been lies but the guy was still written out/editted out of the show and earned the ire of netizens. Because he cheated, he's not allowed to make a living as an actor? I also recently saw once upon the lead actor from Squid Game had some legal issues and/altercations. 20 years ago. People want to complain about this 20 (maybe a little over 20) years later. Those issues were dealt with then.

This is some of what I mean about netizens being an unforgiving bunch and how long until people should just be able to live their lives.

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I don't know what is the right amount of relationship that I should have with my colleagues. I don't share my private life with them. It is difficult when you enter into a team with many years of working together.
Plus, I tend to become nervous with new people that I encounter.
PS. I work for a place where communication and teamwork is paramount for its functions.

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I don’t feel I have any right answers, so I hope you find a balance that’s right for you! What I have found that works for me is talking about hobbies, activities and interests. These sorts of things can be humanising without being too personal.😊 But it’s a distance I find hard to maintain over time given how much of my life I spend with colleagues.😅

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Maybe you could give it a little time and let yourself go with the flow.

I have zero social skills so I usually just let people lead the conversation/relationship at first. I pay attention to what they say and how they express. So next time I use that. I ask them about something they told me before and treat them the way they treat me. And you don't have to share your personal life, but maybe you could talk about something that isn't work. Anything.

I don't know if this helps.
Fighting!

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For whatever reason I'm in a bit of a C-drama binge right now. I just finished Ashes to Love and GOSH what a ride. A whopping 63 episodes and one of the VERY few times I watched basically 80% of a Cdrama without ffing, which means it took me what feels like two decades (three-ish weeks in reality) to finish.

Post-watch though, I feel like I’ve lived three lifetimes and then was put into a washing machine of emotions and spat back out at the end. I guess that’s the nature of xianxia dramas though? It’s hard not to feel like you’ve lived, died, and then lived again for 10,000 years when the characters are all basically doing the same.

I would definitely recommend watching it! If its your first drama in the genre, there is a lot to get 'used' to I guess but it's worth it! And its not without flaws - the FL characterisation I wasn't the biggest fan of (thought it did make sense given her background) and I wish some subplots didn’t get so much screen time, but I was wholly absorbed from start to finish, and it made me go through almost every human emotion possible, so 👍 from me.

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“Post-watch though, I feel like I’ve lived three lifetimes and then was put into a washing machine of emotions and spat back out at the end.” 😅 this is how I felt after watching Love Between Fairy and Devil, and also the reason I haven’t taken on another drama that would do this to me! I think I can only tolerate gentle hand-washing at the moment!

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"Gentle hand-washing" I love it 😂 YES though omg Love Between Fairy and Devil made feel like that as well- it was my first C-drama fantasy so I really went through the wringer. I had to take a big break before watching another heavy fantasy drama again too!

If you've got any recommendations for contemporary and light c-dramas, please do let me know! I've not yet dipped into the non-fantasy scene!!

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I actually haven’t watched very many C-dramas yet, but other beanies like @reply1988 would have great suggestions! For non-fantasy, I know Meet Yourself is supposed to be everything Summer Strike wasn’t.😊 I enjoyed Go Ahead (which is being made into a K-drama, I believe), and it’s one that many other beanies have loved as well.

If you fancy a show that gobbles you up and holds you captive in its belly for a wee while, the J-drama First Love Hatsukoi was one that I watched twice in a row and then couldn’t move on from for a while because it was so beautiful and enveloping for me.

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The two I would recommend:
Meet yourself - a real slice of life as we follow a woman who spends some time reflecting on life in a beautiful village she was supposed to visit with a friend but had been too busy with work to get to.
Remembrance of things past - covers some heavy issues but is mainly about a group of friends and the realities of work, relationships and living in an expensive city.

Go ahead was my favourite Chinese drama until I saw Meet yourself. It is still in my top five Chinese dramas. It’s a slice of life coming of age drama.

There are some seasoned Chinese drama fans on here so hopefully they will see your request and add some more.

Hi Venus and The day of becoming you were two which came highly recommended to me when I put out a request last year.

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👆🏾Sorry, I was composing offline so missed that some had been mentioned already.

I second the suggestion to look at Japanese dramas which often have shorter run times. Silent, Why I dress up for love and Hold my hand at twilight are great. Three star bar in Nishi Ogikubo, Isakai Izakaya Nobu and He’s expecting are also recommended. I agree First love was beautiful.

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@reply1988 I’m proud that I’ve been paying attention and got some of your favourites right!😁 I would have included your love for New Life Begins too, but I was focused on contemporary C-dramas.

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Love Between Fairy and Devil was sooo good and it's a hard one to follow! So here are some ones that I've watched at least twice.
1. The Day of Becoming You - is really good with excellent acting by both male and female leads. Actually Steven Zhang is good in about everything I've seen him in. Skate into Love is another one that he was in and I loved.
2. You are My Glory - though a wee bit heavy on the nationalist part - is still a really great healthy love story between a scientist (Yang Yang) and famous movie star (Dilraba Dilmurat) but part of it for me was the OST.
3. Meet Yourself was excellent on every level possible from beginning to end.
4. New Life Begins - a historical one about a group of strong women who take control of their lives and the the ML with Bai Jing Ting - again an actor whose work I love.
5. He was in a riveting show last year called Reset - it will keep you guessing all the way through.
6. And finally Our Secret - about a boy and girl who grow up together and how she finally finds herself. I liked it alot!
This is probably too much for now but I've enjoyed all of them!
but LBFD is a hard one to follow up on!

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I really enjoyed Fall in love (2021) for the atmosphere and republican costumes.
I have laugh a lot with Legally romance and I am the years, you are the star (the last one has a bit of fantasy.)
Love at night is a modern romance.
I am not over Killer and healer. This drama crushed my heart.

I find that too often cdrama drag and decrease in quality in the last episodes (or second part).
That is not the case for Love like the galaxy, which is not modern but not really fantasy (even if they fly a bit when fighting).

I also enjoy what I've began to call cotton candy dramas (wtf scripts but lots of fun) such as Lethal man, Mysterious love or Unexpected falling.
Dine with love is decent for 3/4, Crush for 1/2. Why women love is okay.

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Crush was really really good - until it wasn't - I think about episode 8. Then I tried Fall in Love for the actor Evan Lin - and that one fell kind of flat for me.
Another fun one though is Arsenal Military Academy!

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@mellowarmadillo @reply1988 @stpauligurl @darwi thank you x a million for all of your wonderful suggestions (and for throwing in those J-drama ones too because I've just started watching Japanese dramas recently)!

Bless Viki because it has virtually every drama you all have mentioned (and therefore straight onto the watch list they go) with the exception of two of the Japanese dramas :( Thank you so much again for all the recs! Who needs my dramalist/IMBD when we have beanies like you all!!

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@lapislazullii I watched 'Ashes to Love' only after I was pulled into the C-Drama vortex of Xanthia, Wuxia and Historicals. My gateway was 'Eternal Love: Ten Thousand Miles of Peach Blossoms'. I looked up the top C-Dramas in fantasy historicals to see what china was producing so I could compare it to Sageuk fantasies and was surprised by how deeply "Eternal Love', an older drama, hooked into me because the hero (played by one of the greats: Mark Chao) is handsome but not gorgeous, yet his deep voice and character are mesmerizingly appealing as he courts his feisty love over three lifetimes. From there it was 'Love & Destiny', The Sword & the Brocade, then, because of Wallace Chung in that drama, I searched out 'The General & I'. All of them amazing. From there the rabiit hole brought me to 'Ashes of Love' (so good), then to a time-slip fusion "Be My Princess' in which an actor in a C-Historical has an accident that leaves him thinking he is the character he plays in the movie and falls in love with the female lead opposite him. (Lots of fun). 'The Long Ballad' and 'The Story of Minglan were good but long. However my recent favourites are 'Rebel Princess' (who has THE best male lead ever when it comes to being dominant & strong, but also gentle and loyal...yet buried inside him is a romantic fierceness that melts the heart--phew!) and of course I liked 'Love Between Fairy & Devil' which was a guilty pleasure. I loved watching our petulant Devil resist his attraction for our effervescent Fairy. I watched all these in 2022 and haven't returned since. Must go back to see what's been happening in that genre since then.

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Same here - I also got pulled into the C-drama vortex because of their fantasies. I watched LBFAD because beanies here posted about it and then did the classic 'more shows like this' google after watching. I've heard about Eternal Love, Long Ballad, Love & Destiny so they're on my list but I'm glad to hear they're ones you enjoyed too! Thanks also for mentioning some of your other faves, which I hadn't heard before - I'll check them out too now.

I'd defs recommend Till The End of the Moon if you're looking to launch back into the genre - it's not yet finished airing but is 3/4 done and it's been great so far!

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Great...I'll check it out...Thanks.

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