So the thing that I’ve loved about Dinner Mate is that neither Do-hee nor Hae-kyung have been even the slightest bit influenced by the manipulation of their exes, nor have they been threatened by the others ex. They obviously have weaknesses but they have only ever given their exes the courtesy that one owes a fellow human. Honestly, I feel like their mothers make more of an impact on them when it comes to emotional manipulation than either of the two idiot exes.
But today was different because things are different from when you’re flirting versus actually being together. Because before they weren’t in a vulnerable position – before they could still keep their feelings close. But now their feelings are out there that makes them vulnerable, not only to one another, but to outsiders as well. They are both strong, and I think it’ll take more than a few obnoxious words from No-eul to do anything. I don’t think that they will be shaken, but I do think that they are going to have a lot more complicated conversations sooner than they wanted; because while it’s all good and well to share secrets with a nameless stranger, it’s another thing entirely to be vulnerable and emotionally open with someone you care about.
Now to the idiot exes. Let’s just get the crazy out of the way. This guy. I can’t with Jae-hyuk anymore. This is classic abusive behavior. Doing something that forces Do-hee to pay attention to him and put her on the spot. It’s so transparent, and this is where he and No-eul differ. It’s transparent, but it hasn’t been so openly desperate in front of others like hers. Usually his manipulations are subtle enough to seem harmless to others while No-eul is openly manipulating. If No-eul is trowing pebbles, Jae-Hyuk is trowing a grenade and then strapping dynamite to himself and running in headfirst. He doesn’t care about the damage he does, or who gets hurt in the process. It’s only a matter of time before he does some serious harm. He definitely needs professional help, because clearly he is beyond listening to reason now. I really want to know what he did to Homeless Ajusshi now, because it’s clear his manipulation and pathological lying go back a long time and he has used it for evil in the past. I wonder if those were part of what got him kicked out of his home?
And as for our second female lead: No-eul was disgusting and stupid this episode. I wish we had a real actress in the role, because I could so see one of the actresses who play despicable second leads so well – Yoo In-young for example – giving No-eul some depth. We know that the script has given her the material (eating disorder, mommy issues, etc.), but it fails to show up in the performance. Even her smirks are bad. How do you screw that up? But we have what we have. Anyway, I digress. No-eul is working her best to create a wedge between Hae-kyung and Do-hee, and it’s so transparent that it would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
Honestly this is part of the irony of the show to me – the arguably worse of the exes is played by an actor who manages to make a truly awful person seem human and…not vulnerable exactly, but at least he feels real. It’s a horrific character but a spectacular performance. It never quite goes over the top, but it pushes the limits just far enough. No-eul on the other hand is the one who could have been redeemed in so many ways with good acting – her wanting a friendship with Do-hee, for example. I realize the script made her spiteful, but a good actress could have shown a battle within her when it comes to losing a potential friend. Or the way she intersects with Hae-kyung’s mother – what even is the mood there? If we saw some genuine feeling there or if there were some nuance, those scenes would land so much better. But the way it’s going I feel like in the end I may have some sympathy for Jae-hyuk while No-eul could go eat rocks.
The thing I love most about both characters is how firm they are in their rejecting their exes. Gently but firmly. There hasn’t been one single time in which I felt that they may come back to them. They both have been really considerate to them, being them to support even when they didn’t want to, because they felt it was the right thing to do (as when you do it to anyone, just because it’s human to care). And to me this says so much about DoHee and HayKyung as human beings, because they are good.
In contrast, we have the exes, and just like you I will leave the psycho aside. They are both manipulative and selfish. None of them wants their exes back because they love them. They just have the idea that they would be better with them by their side and don’t really care about how the other feels: I’ve decided I want you by my side because it will be great for me. Now, do as I say. Call me crazy, but that’s not the best way to get into a relationship.
I totally agree with you about NoEul and how terribly bad she’s being acted. I’ve commented in the recap that she may be written to be hated, but if only she was acted properly we could see some nuances that would make us like the performance. Her whole presence in the drama is a mystery to me: she adds nothing. I mean, when she was visiting HK’s mum I was just asking myself why she was there… Writer has given NoEul a couple of reasons to be “more human” like her genuine wish to become DoHee’s friend, but having a expressionless actress on it is like having a stone as second FL.
And that’s exactly where Lee JiHoon makes the difference. He’s making such a remarkable job. His character is really hateful, but I discover something new on him almost everytime he’s on screen. He’s making JH human even if JH is not totally human.
I feel a combination of irritation and second-hand embarrassment watching Son Na-eun “perform” and I don’t think the writing helps either. There was the tiniest flicker of doubt in No-eul’s eyes when she talked with Jae-hyuk at the bar.
Or, maybe I’m the one projecting my own feelings?
In a recent NYTimes piece about the popular French series, The Bureau, director/actor Mathieu Kassovitz says his character is generally poker faced. He joked that it’s editing and the viewer that intensify the emotion:
Viewers tell me, ‘Wow, what an intensity.’ And I say, ‘No, the intensity is coming from you, from the way it’s been edited, what we show you, the story that’s being told. You are the one placing this tension in my eyes. Me, I was just gazing into the distance.’
Haha, probably. That or the director got lucky with his shot and she actually managed to emote slightly so he finally had something to work with.
I always loved how Martin Scorsese’s long time editor, Thelma Schoonmaker, said of Scorsese’s films “They aren’t violent until I’ve edited them”. But the editing requires good material to begin with, and that comes from the collaboration of the actor with the director to honor the writing. Editing takes that and creates the mood after it’s been committed to film. And if editing can’t hide bad acting, then the person is really bad.
SnarkyJellyfish
June 23, 2020 at 11:16 PM
So the thing that I’ve loved about Dinner Mate is that neither Do-hee nor Hae-kyung have been even the slightest bit influenced by the manipulation of their exes, nor have they been threatened by the others ex. They obviously have weaknesses but they have only ever given their exes the courtesy that one owes a fellow human. Honestly, I feel like their mothers make more of an impact on them when it comes to emotional manipulation than either of the two idiot exes.
But today was different because things are different from when you’re flirting versus actually being together. Because before they weren’t in a vulnerable position – before they could still keep their feelings close. But now their feelings are out there that makes them vulnerable, not only to one another, but to outsiders as well. They are both strong, and I think it’ll take more than a few obnoxious words from No-eul to do anything. I don’t think that they will be shaken, but I do think that they are going to have a lot more complicated conversations sooner than they wanted; because while it’s all good and well to share secrets with a nameless stranger, it’s another thing entirely to be vulnerable and emotionally open with someone you care about.
Now to the idiot exes. Let’s just get the crazy out of the way. This guy. I can’t with Jae-hyuk anymore. This is classic abusive behavior. Doing something that forces Do-hee to pay attention to him and put her on the spot. It’s so transparent, and this is where he and No-eul differ. It’s transparent, but it hasn’t been so openly desperate in front of others like hers. Usually his manipulations are subtle enough to seem harmless to others while No-eul is openly manipulating. If No-eul is trowing pebbles, Jae-Hyuk is trowing a grenade and then strapping dynamite to himself and running in headfirst. He doesn’t care about the damage he does, or who gets hurt in the process. It’s only a matter of time before he does some serious harm. He definitely needs professional help, because clearly he is beyond listening to reason now. I really want to know what he did to Homeless Ajusshi now, because it’s clear his manipulation and pathological lying go back a long time and he has used it for evil in the past. I wonder if those were part of what got him kicked out of his home?
And as for our second female lead: No-eul was disgusting and stupid this episode. I wish we had a real actress in the role, because I could so see one of the actresses who play despicable second leads so well – Yoo In-young for example – giving No-eul some depth. We know that the script has given her the material (eating disorder, mommy issues, etc.), but it fails to show up in the performance. Even her smirks are bad. How do you screw that up? But we have what we have. Anyway, I digress. No-eul is working her best to create a wedge between Hae-kyung and Do-hee, and it’s so transparent that it would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
Honestly this is part of the irony of the show to me – the arguably worse of the exes is played by an actor who manages to make a truly awful person seem human and…not vulnerable exactly, but at least he feels real. It’s a horrific character but a spectacular performance. It never quite goes over the top, but it pushes the limits just far enough. No-eul on the other hand is the one who could have been redeemed in so many ways with good acting – her wanting a friendship with Do-hee, for example. I realize the script made her spiteful, but a good actress could have shown a battle within her when it comes to losing a potential friend. Or the way she intersects with Hae-kyung’s mother – what even is the mood there? If we saw some genuine feeling there or if there were some nuance, those scenes would land so much better. But the way it’s going I feel like in the end I may have some sympathy for Jae-hyuk while No-eul could go eat rocks.
Eazal
June 24, 2020 at 1:32 AM
The thing I love most about both characters is how firm they are in their rejecting their exes. Gently but firmly. There hasn’t been one single time in which I felt that they may come back to them. They both have been really considerate to them, being them to support even when they didn’t want to, because they felt it was the right thing to do (as when you do it to anyone, just because it’s human to care). And to me this says so much about DoHee and HayKyung as human beings, because they are good.
In contrast, we have the exes, and just like you I will leave the psycho aside. They are both manipulative and selfish. None of them wants their exes back because they love them. They just have the idea that they would be better with them by their side and don’t really care about how the other feels: I’ve decided I want you by my side because it will be great for me. Now, do as I say. Call me crazy, but that’s not the best way to get into a relationship.
I totally agree with you about NoEul and how terribly bad she’s being acted. I’ve commented in the recap that she may be written to be hated, but if only she was acted properly we could see some nuances that would make us like the performance. Her whole presence in the drama is a mystery to me: she adds nothing. I mean, when she was visiting HK’s mum I was just asking myself why she was there… Writer has given NoEul a couple of reasons to be “more human” like her genuine wish to become DoHee’s friend, but having a expressionless actress on it is like having a stone as second FL.
And that’s exactly where Lee JiHoon makes the difference. He’s making such a remarkable job. His character is really hateful, but I discover something new on him almost everytime he’s on screen. He’s making JH human even if JH is not totally human.
tsutsuloo
June 24, 2020 at 5:48 PM
I feel a combination of irritation and second-hand embarrassment watching Son Na-eun “perform” and I don’t think the writing helps either. There was the tiniest flicker of doubt in No-eul’s eyes when she talked with Jae-hyuk at the bar.
Or, maybe I’m the one projecting my own feelings?
In a recent NYTimes piece about the popular French series, The Bureau, director/actor Mathieu Kassovitz says his character is generally poker faced. He joked that it’s editing and the viewer that intensify the emotion:
SnarkyJellyfish
June 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM
Haha, probably. That or the director got lucky with his shot and she actually managed to emote slightly so he finally had something to work with.
I always loved how Martin Scorsese’s long time editor, Thelma Schoonmaker, said of Scorsese’s films “They aren’t violent until I’ve edited them”. But the editing requires good material to begin with, and that comes from the collaboration of the actor with the director to honor the writing. Editing takes that and creates the mood after it’s been committed to film. And if editing can’t hide bad acting, then the person is really bad.
tsutsuloo
June 25, 2020 at 4:34 AM
Excellent quote from Ms. Schoonmaker. I love her!