Well that’s entirely new information.
These last few episodes have really decided to exposition dump haven’t they. I suppose that’s what you get when you defenestrate your pacing.
#RedSky11
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    was expecting this given he was all about revenge..knew it he himself must have been a cause

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      and I was shocked as to why all of a sudden this new information is being shared.. but may be his dad fell from the cliff being injured badly nd died and Ha Ram happened to be there (with no connection to his death) ??

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        actually you are right.. it would be too much for our hero if he knows he killed his dad

        i haven’t watched ep 11 and 12.. but have already lost interest..

        But i hear comedy of the day is that mawang has 6 pair of eyes

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          exactly..
          I am also feeling bit disconnected abt all the Ma Wang happening.. feels like this show is being dragged just to make it 16 episode.. things could have been shorten and straighten out sooner to give Ha Ram the poor boy some relaxed time. He has been thru a lot all his life and now again till Ma Wang gets sealed he will be tormented.

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            I disagree with it dragging exactly, although I do agree that it doesn’t have great narrative economy- up until episode 8ish it was moving at an average speed; after that it has actually SPED UP the narrative and has flown through most of the important character reveals (as in all the characters finding out the important stuff) quite quickly, with not a great amount of time for this to sink in, or the proper emotional weight to be felt by the characters or the viewers. As you say, Ha Ram has little time to “relax”.
            It’s lack of understanding of narrative economy comes in not great pacing OVERALL, rather than specifically dragging or rushing (instead it actually does both.)
            This actually has plenty of plot and to be a well fleshed out 16 episode show, if the content were handled properly.

            Up until this point we as the viewers didn’t actually know that Ha Ram might have killed his father- this was not mentioned or set up well; I suppose the intent is for Ha Ram to realise that his revenge is not founded on what he originally thought, and create more conflict, but I am also not sure the show actually needed this- it already has so much else going on. Do we really need Mawang to have killed his father during one of his episodes, do we really need him wrestling with a false revenge on top of everything else?
            Idk, things like this to me feel very convoluted and not the strongest narrative points.

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            I sometimes feel the show suffers from being adapted from a novel and we’re only getting a summary of the story.

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            @michelleb ugh adaptions problems *cries*

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    @sicarius
    i agree with ur disagreement and kind of agree with your above points too. But when I said dragging it wasn’t referring to the speed with which plot point are being disclosed (or known to main characters) or figuring out what to do to contain Ma Wang but how actually connecting dots to execute “Sealing Ma Wang”. Dragging not in finding the information needed to solve the problem but actually solving the problem is being dragged for me.
    As you said it was all at avg speed till 8th epi then next 4 epi everyone knows everything and knows whats to be done to but still Ma Wang is still out there playing his tricks.
    and next 4 episode also it will be same.. as ma Wang will be sealed only at the very last episode I think.
    .
    then we got to know Hwaecha too and the deal he and painter would do..
    .
    it feels like an ocean of information and we as viewers standing at the shore just hit by the waves of more n more information and just wondering why things are not settling yet.
    .
    Everyone know everything, Sam sin has given Ha Ram butterfly emulate now the Ring is also there… still its taking too long to actually implement those tools.
    no matter how good tools someone has, how great their planning is but if they don’t know how to use those tools effectively and execute those plans efficiently it means they want to drag the situation as long as they can cause they are not sure if they can actually solve the problems.
    .
    and just wondering by any chance you are from Filmmaking field.. they way you write abt plots and pace it makes me curious.
    I might not be good in writing the things what I want to as I hvnt studied filmmaking but share what i feel.

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      Ah that is what you meant! Thank you for that clarification~
      I would agree. We’ve gone round in circles in that regard a bit- “we need to restore the royal painting to get rid of Mawang!”– has been repeated multiple times and stalled almost as many.
      This is also related to the issues in pacing I was talking about though, isn’t it.
      We have all this information (that we haven’t been given in an efficient manner), and it’s not executing the next step efficiently either. Alas.
      .
      One problem I have with this specific tool however, of defeating Mawang, is that I don’t know why it has to be the KING’S portrait they think they have to restore, and use to seal Mawang. Mawang is not in the Old King anymore, and the Old King is dead; Mawang is in Ha Ram, and we all know it now- (is it related somehow to the idea they sort of confirmed in 10 about how Mawang would only enter Royals without external involvement?) And yet they keep repeating this as what they have to do. I wonder personally, if they will complete it and find that the portrait doesn’t work and it has to be Ha Ram’s portrait or something else that Cheon Gi paints. They keep hammering it home though, so I get confused as to how this sealing is supposed to or actually does work within the lore the show has set out; it seems yet another part that isn’t consistent.
      .
      I am not sure they will actually solve all the problems either. I have never been I don’t think, greatly confident they ever would. They have already been inconsistent in how their rules and lore works.

      it feels like an ocean of information and we as viewers standing at the shore just hit by the waves of more n more information and just wondering why things are not settling yet.

      I love this analogy actually; it feels quite apt at times, although I’m doing my best to keep up with said information, haha.
      .
      .
      .
      I am not from the filmmaking field per se; However, I am a writer, and I have done a course and work specifically in Scriptwriting. I have a great interest in, and therefore knowledge of Storytelling and how it works. It is my passion 🙂

      I think you did a fine job in sharing and writing what you wanted to say and what you feel~! ^-^

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        Regarding Mawang sealing I have this question: back then when the Old King decided to seal Mawang in his portrait, it must have been for a reason: he learned somewhere about the ritual and the sealing and why it had to be a portrait by a divine painter… so… where did this knowledge come from? Why isn’t it recorded? Why is everyone insisting on restoring the portrait and not reviewing the initial source?

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          I know.. I am wondering that too..like how come everyone is so sure that Ma Wang can be resealed into that restored burnt portrait of the king who is dead.
          from where they find it, how it’s concluded ??

          Will this thing actually work.. no one is questioning.
          .
          in past that king was alive to make ma Wang move from him to his portrait.. how will Ma Wang tricked this time.. thats my biggest question.

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            And I guess that’s why we are having a failing sealing ceremony on episode 13.

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            @eazal I agree and then The Portrait Cheon Gi made of Ha Ram on the date by the stream will be used as that’s the only portrait of the person who has Ma Wang in it and also drawn by the Divine Painter (not sure if it will work that way but I feel that portrait will not be wasted when it was done so beautifully)

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            Yeah all this.
            I think that painting if Ha Ram has to be important; she drew it from her heart, they love each other and they essentially drew it together, his hand following hers the whole time.
            I’ll be disappointed if that painting doesn’t come back some how haha.

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        ahh no wonder I found all ur posts in past intriguing enough to be curious how come you can write from a perspective not just as viewer but someone who knows how things actually work in script storytelling wise.
        and as you are Scriptwriter and that answers my curiosity. But i always thought its one of core fields of filmmaking ( cause all the filmmaking courses i checked had scriptwriting included in it.. may be not a separate subject but introduction).
        .
        and thanks for liking the ocean analogy.. it feels great that what i thought is actually makes sense to a writer (i am bad writing.. as cant explain my thoughts without going in circles)
        .
        I hvnt done any course yet but I am a video editor and I watch shows (most of the time) visually as to whats shown and how its going to be used in future and why its not working etc (visual storyteller..thats what i say abt me..lol). But I love how well you explain and analyze actions/things as per scripts. So I get to learn so much from your posts.
        .
        Though i am still not sure if the issue is pace as i have no issues with Lovers of Red Sky.. its gripping enough to make me keep watching.. rather PDnim wants to keep the hook of “whose portrait will be able to seal mawang” till the very last episode as @eazal mentioned we can have a failed sealing ceremony in 13th episode. then next 2 episode will be used to figure what will be the vessel that Sam sin talked about.
        I feel if only this show could cut just 2 episodes things would have tied up neatly without going in circles of.
        .
        thanks again for all ur insightful posts….

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