I watched episode fifteen of The Red Sleeve Cuff and I understand why many Beanies expressed distaste and anger. I understand that as King, San has complete control over Deok-Im’s life and her body. However, San has expressed his love for Deok-im multiple times over the course of the show. How then can he threaten her with sexual violence? Even if San’s threats are empty, meaning he would never assault Deok-Im, it still is horrible. If these are elements that are present in the novel then perhaps it would be best if the script writers omitted them.



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    I can understand why he, as the King, does this. I can totally understand it. What I can’t understand is the use of this trope as “I treat you bad because I love you” can be seen as romantic. Because it isn’t.
    By the way, this scene was one of the few that is exactly the same as in the novel.

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      This scene they CHOSE to keep??? Any idea why?

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        Not, but probably in context makes sense. And even so, it also makes sense to me without context (I mean, form an historical point of view it’s accurate, the problem is when you romantise this stupid trope).

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    I haven’t read the novel so I really have no idea, but I’m starting to suspect that either the drama or the novel was written by someone who hates women.
    Evidence 1: the whole Lord Hong arc.
    Point 1: Every single action he takes in EPs 14-15 is meant to terrorise, torture, or use women to his own ends.
    Point 2: Instead of meeting the death penalty Court Ladies would have certainly met if his plans went ahead, he was merely banned, apparently because Sam likes him oh so much, which is rich, taking into account that San killed off his own brother. I figured it was maybe because San didn’t want to get on the wrong side of the Hong faction, but they really didn’t spell it out.
    Point 3: Let’s talk about San knowing what Hong was up to and letting it go on, like, “sure, go ahead and torture Court Ladies a little longer until I can collect treason evidence, no biggie”…
    Point 4: To wrap it up, drama has the gall to give him a redemption of sorts. Whaaaat? 🤨
    My point is that the story is set in a time and a place where women clearly were at disadvantage. Romance between an all-powerful King and a Court Maid (hey, work-place romance!) was always going to be dicey.
    But the plotlines, the depictions of female characters (Child bride and Jealous Bully Princess take the cake) and the way romance is framed, all of this is grating because it is a choice. They chose to depict women being terrorised, they chose to make the ML a bit rapey instead of making him grow into a more mature view of the FL, they chose to frame forceful physical contact as romantic (*shakes head).
    I’m feeling really conflicted because there are so many good things in this drama. My favourites: Deokim’s friend squad, and the scenes between San and Grandpa, and San and Hong. But then drama pulls all this women-hating crap on us and I don’t know how to feel about it anymore

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      The book is only available in Korean. I follow on IG an account that shares pieces of it (it’s jlml718, she’s very well known among international hottest because she does lots of subs and translatation, a real angel), and she shared that the whole court lady plot is not in the drama. In history, the reason why Deokro was expelled from palace was corruption (and him belonging to the Hong clan, I guess).

      Regarding the child bride, as much as I don’t like it, it’s historically accurate, but both in history records and the book, Jeongjo always treated her with kindness and as a child, and in fact when she was picked as a concubine, he was already with Deok Im. As for the other concubine, plot device, I guess.

      I also hate that Jeongjo is depicted this violent in comparison with San, specially when he is regarded as a very human king by Koreans. I know in the book he’s more cold hearted that he is shown in the drama, but I don’t think he’s this violent as we’ve seen in the last 3 episodes, menacing twice to rape Deok Im and being a bastard because he’s frustrated. And even so I would tolerate it if it fitted what we’ve seen so far, but it just feels like a modern trope on a modern drama (old school) and writer is pretending that all us say “oh, look, he treats her badly, he must be so in love…” and this is what annoys me the most. I can understand this kind of behaviour in context, but there’s never been a historical context regarding this in the drama, because if there was we would have Queen Hyoui and there’s not a trace of her.

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      Tbh, I thought they were going to use the time jumps to show a mature San.

      There were 3 episodes (maybe 5, 6 and 7) that ended with San ignoring everything Deok Im was saying about the value of court ladies lives, or San making wtv DI said about her self respect, her view of life or her desire to keep her freedom ABOUT HIM. But we also had in the first couple of episodes a San that was saving court ladies from a tiger, a San that cared about his people. So yeah, I believed he was going to improve with time and the wise DI by his side or something.

      However, he just keeps getting worse, time jump after time jump. It started with him not wanting to respect DI’s life choices (makes her stand for hours then he says “I want you to be my family. But don’t worry, I’m going to give you time to think” the next day “what’s your answer? If I won this game you’ll respond”), and now he’s assaulting her. Great, San. Great.

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        @enriquequierecagar San’s behavior seems to justify the head court lady’s fears of him becoming his father. I cannot understand this decision on the part of the screen writer(s). I have a hard time rooting for a male lead when he threatens the female lead with sexual violence.

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          Same here, I don’t know what are we supposed to do besides feel sorry for Deok Im and wating the drama to end already. At this point there’s no way I’m liking San again.

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          Repeatedly threatens her with sexual violence! I counted at least three times, including the instance where it was explicit (where he talked about removing her blouse and “bedding”, I.e. raping, her). And then there was the forced kiss. And also all of his poor reactions to her rejecting him. I just don’t see how this is romantic. The preview makes it seem as though they have a happy marriage while she is alive. I find that perplexing. I would be terrified of him if I were her.

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            @smaltwalt I agree. I really wish that the writers would not have included these elements (even if they are present in the novel).

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      @flyingcolours I agree with you that San’s decision surrounding Deok-Ro’s actions were baffling. As you mentioned, Deok-Ro’s powerful connections may have played some role in San’s decisions. I also believe (as one of the court officials pointed out) that San’s love for Deok-Ro often times clouded his judgement.

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