Beanie level: Chaebol’s poor doppelganger

Destined with You: Hong-jo has more than one time ridiculed the Spell for Fortune, so much that I think we will just have to see it used at one point. To perform the spell, you need to Raise a Shaggy Dog for 10 years. This could make you think of Jae-kyung and his favourite dog kennel. But I get to think of this one dog, in this sweet, sweet gif from yet another Gif Geysir of Seon-ha’s.

The cutest, Shaggiest Dog is obviously Shin-yu. I wonder how this spell will happen, and I wonder if it will really last ten years, or maybe it is dog years? I want to see him raised for ten human or dog years and fulfill the fortune spell.
Someone pointed out that A Shaggy Dog story is a concept in English, like a long, winding supposedly joke with no punchline. Like if Jae-kyung told a long ”joke”. Is there a similar wordplay in Korean? And on the same note, since Shin-yu is our cutest dog, do they include the verb-version of shagginess, or maybe that makes no sense in Korean?
@Cera @Seon-ha @Elinor Lies @Lapislazulii @HopefulRomantic @hacja etc

5
5

    Love it! This is a theory I hope comes to fruition in the drama… as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I may not be currently watching this drama, but I’m having a blast reading the theories and commentary about it.

    3
    0

    Ooooh I like how you’re thinking!! Shin-yu as Shaggy Dog is reminding me of the new Cha Eun-woo drama 😆 Time to go on a language deep dive to see if there is a similar wordplay parallel in Korean! There are a lot of dog references now that I think about it, surely that means the fortune spell is going happen at some point!!

    4
    0

    I can’t help thinking of these lines from Helena in A Midsummer Night’s Dream. There’s a lovesick dog if ever there was one.

    Come to think of it, these four young lovers and haters are at first messed up yet more, then sorted out, by the interference of forest spirits and fairies with a powerful Love Potion.

    3
    0

    I really like your theory.
    Can I have both please – Shin-yu as shaggy dog (ooh how many times did I play that in loop during the episode!) and a shaggy dog joke by Jae-kyung.
    We definitely need to see more spells in action – also some defense spells against the garden creep’s curses.
    I love gardening and this garden creep makes me cringe … hard.

    1
    0

    Oh, @attiton ! Five to one “Shaggy” is the same word as “Messy” or “In a Mess”, right?

    0
    0

Not very impressed with Shin-yu’s response when she says he is sending mixed signals.
Never in the history of mankind has someone kissed a woman (at a workplace, in an inferior position, at that) without thereby expressing their deep, monogamous and lasting love. [eye roll] Or what?
With ”Mixed signals” she couldn’t possibly have meant anything but wanting to smooch etc. In the office. She couldn’t possibly have meant that he should make a clear break with his girlfriend, could she?
Well, next episode will probably concentrate on madness rather than workplace ethics and monogamy. Maybe he gets so messy that the ten years of taking care of a shaggy dog, i.e. him, starts there.

6
2

Bracken, Destined with You Do you remember when Hong-jo and Shin-yu ate at the way home from that mountain, and she knew he didn’t wan’t bracken, though he only said “I am Groot”?
Here in ep. 10, he tells why to JK and the secretary, but when they asked whom were bitten, he gets a quiet, private shock. Bet you he just now remembers that snake bite happened more than a hundred years ago.
And Hong-jo, maybe unconsciously, remembers that, too.
@Cera @attition @Reply1988

7
7

From all of us to all of you, …
To see it, you need to click it. Or go here
or here https://imgflip.com/gif/8011gu

3
9

Does anyone have contributions to the subject of FROST in this glass, and also as a frame around the intro?
The obvious will be that there is an anti-love curse, of coldness, on the family, a curse that can only be broken by a spell, too
Hopefully there’s a gif here:

2
9
    1
    2

      So far, it has signaled the arrival of the red hand. I think there’s also frost on the rearview mirror during the car crash. You can check me on that.

      2
      1

        I initially thought it was two different hands/spirits. The first one frosty and looking “corpse-y” (yikes!), like dark grey and all. And the second then all bloody and “hot” (lol, in whatever sense of the word). Is it the same person? When will we know, show?!?!?! Ugh the suspense is killing me…. 😅😖

        1
        2

      Yeah, I think they used the same way they usually chose for ghost, the atmosphere becoming cold.

      3
      1

        Oh, so maybe it’s just “uncanny ghostly presence”?

        1
        1

          When did the frosty glass show up? I vaguely remember noticing it, but forgot to follow up. Good catch on the intro, which I’ve skipped since episode 1. The ML in a frosty frame is followed by him in sunshine in a Joseon setting. I need to go back and see what the various things drifting up and down in those quick cuts are – snowflakes, petals, ashes, maybe feathers. I do love the visual imagery in this show and it’s almost more than I can keep up with.

          I didn’t see frost on the car windows but I did notice that the reflected lights in the car windows as he drives change to a reflection of the falling nakwhanori sparks from the Joseon fireworks pond/bridge – can’t remember what the location is called but it’s the same one that was used in 19th Life.

          I was totally absorbed in the Moving finale yesterday and won’t have time to watch this week’s episodes until tonight or tomorrow, so I’m going to stay away from the fanwall until then.

          1
          1

Is there somewhere to hang out and discuss newest episode of e.g. Destined With You right after seeing it? Of course there’s no way we all ”hold that thought” internally until tomorrow + at least two days, when the recap comes out.
The general public (us) are ready to contribute their meaning, too:


Couldn’t Dramabean have a designated place for the newest episodes but with the difference that the comment section was open also before the recap dropped?
@attition , have you already giphified ep. 9? Or where do we go?

6
43

    I think we go here, @cecilieDK 😂 I don’t have plans to gif it until maybe after the weecap so that I know what I’m doing (if I do it at all…that’ll depend on the reactions).

    What I am doing for the next few days is finishing my gif-essay on Jae-kyung.

    I’ve seen today’s episode, tho…what do you want to talk about? I have one main question (and I’m going to shout it):

    WHAT SPELL, SHOW?? WHAT SPELL DID SHE RE-CAST??? WHY SO STINGY WITH THAT ??

    4
    2

      Yes, you can’t really recast the same spell, because you burn the page, right? Can you just write a copy?
      And yes, did she do the disaster one or the love one? Or the disease one? (Would make sense).
      To me, there was very little direction in todays episode, or not a very clear one, or just all directions.
      And as I’ve said, I could totally understand that he is drawn back into the expected marriage, but not if it is because he can’t let go of SFL. I mean, when you only see her nice side, she seems lovely, and the hard part would be to have to say it. But is he going “Please wait because I love her, too?” That is a pretty spoiled message, honestly.

      2
      2

        No no way. I need to call @sonai up here as well.

        There’s no way he loves her given the way he pulled back from her hug in the hospital! He was a real coward, though eating dinner with her… Assuming that’s what happened

        3
        2

          Naw, no love for Na-yeon (neither from Shinyu, nor from me, lol), I’m pretty certain, too. 🤔 He rather seems to have an ill advised sense of “Victorian decency” considering their engagement. Get a grip, Shin-yu! She won’tbe a social outcast if you break the engagement (in a way she *accepts*)!!!

          Have lots of thoughts, but also a long leg of traveling to do today, so more on that later…. 😆

          3
          0

          “Breaking up is never easy, I know” but he seriously needs to get his act together now.

          3
          10

            Just finished episode 10 and so ready to take the bloody hand and slap him left and right with it. 🙄

            2
            0

            But then again, apart from someone Magicking him crazy, someone might be magicking all that couple trouble – cause there seemed to be a lot.
            But I ALSO think instead of going to the beach it might be time to use a megaphone for that breakup.

            2
            0

            NO HE DOES NOT BECAUSE THE FEELZ, Cecilie.

            @sonai I got you, but raise you a “He’s so messed up, he makes ME feel like I’ve got it all together :)”

            2
            0

            At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if Na-ye on was still in denial even if the whole Onju city hall servants came together for an impromptu musical act, flawlessly delivering a number about “girl, he is breaking up!”. And it wouldn’t be impossible either, seeing what’s happening in the show, lol

            @attention @ceciliedk

            2
            0

            I’d watch that – with the sound on! – @sonai

            1
            0

            @sonai I’d watch that. She definitely doesn’t get it, but he doesn’t fracking SATISFY HER. What is her problem??? I love her. I love every broken human being in this show. They say stupid things and do stupider things, and I can’t get enough.

            Sorry. I’ve gone complete fangirl. I won’t be hearing any logic. Just let me fan on. Deal? No deal?

            2
            0

            I’m with you in hoping for sunshine and flowers for evil girlfriend too … Like I’ve said before, like finding her own potential and not go looking for it in the trashbin at guys who are not really into her.
            Now I only need to hear your reasons for loving Evil Garden Man.

            1
            0

            Oh, I don’t love evil Garden Man…I loooooove evil Garden Man for being so desperate and evil and twisted inside out from his shunning. He turns beautiful things black. He buries bloody clothes. He craaaaaaaaaaves power over people, women especially…and I would love to see him GO DOWN 🙂

            2
            0

            At some point we might hear about what happened to Evil Black Magic Garden Paparazzi’s wife. How did she die?

            1
            0

            BTW, now ML also knows about at least one of SFL’s lies. I don’t think he has ever known before that one thing happens and she tells it another way. But now he heard that Hong-jo is allegedly “hitting on him”, so some of those other stories about how SFL fell victim to FL’s greediness and unreasonable grudge-brearing might start to split in the seems (and not from laughing).

            1
            0

        I think the issue is his father. The guy doesn’t listen anything and he can’t break-up without the whole thing taking big proportions. He’s more focused on the past, the doll, the stalker that all have a connection with Hong-Jo and wants to protect her. He didn’t realized that he was in danger too. The gardener had to call the girlfriend and she didn’t find him on the parking lot like she said, I guess.

        4
        1

          I am pretty sure the father has some kind of agenda that we don’t know of.
          And also, he has real douchebag energy.
          Plus, he seems to make all agreements with SFL, like they are the ones to plan the lives and futures of everybody. Something is going on there – and I don’t think it is because they are having an affair, (thank God, that would be so EEEW).

          3
          3

            No, he just want his son to marry and to start a family. Na-Yeon is from a good family so it’s enough for him.

            Na-Yeon understood she has the father on her side, so she uses him very well.

            3
            0

            Remember, this curse is a family thing. I say there’s something going on other than just the usual “Time to get married, son”.

            2
            0

            Yeah, it’s why his father wants him to get married if he died soon like other members of the family, he still will have a descendant. The branch of the family won’t stop with Shin-Yu.

            2
            0

      When you do, please share one of present-day Ro-woon on the bridge wearing a coat, a black belted thing of beauty. I almost forgave Ep. 9 just because of that.

      (That shot through the mesh of his gat wasn’t bad either, but that kiss, not so much.)

      4
      3

        Can do.

        I call that the second best kiss tho. Not the worst.

        This episode was all over the place. I wish it hadn’t been. But there were some killer shots/scenes. I hope that tomorrow brings more narrative closure…or I’ll just have to start the fanfic now.

        4
        2

          Poorly edited in addition to the script issue. It could have been so great. But I still keep hoping. I’m under a wishful-thinking spell.

          It was pretty scene, but I didn’t feel anything for the kiss. It wasn’t just her passivity, but I have to think more about it.

          5
          1

            Two lines were … “Why do they put this in, honestly?”
            First: “What kind of a man asks about that?” which obviously, as an answer to “Can I hug you?” means “Yes”, but also, the answer to your question, woman, is “A kind man who is not out to make you feel uncomfortable or unsafe by being alone with him in your apartment.” A non-date-r*per. We like them.
            And the second one: “I know what will happen to you, because I am going to do it to you.” Now, he started up by kissing her forehead, so let’s say, if she didn’t want it, he gave her time to avoid more than that, and in some sense “I am going to do it to you” if you still combine it with an atmosphere where it is safe to say no, is probably a nice way of flirting. Let’s agree on that, so as not to have to be angry with ML.
            But what made Joseon FL speak up the army future, when she saw bloodied hands there?

            3
            0

          “All over the place”, that pretty much sums it up. I hope it is because they are picking up threads, (can you say that?), but it was all over the place not just in time and place, but also, in a lot of scenes as a viewer you really didn’t know what to make of it and hence what to feel.
          And Yes, fan fic, please. Though I still hope …
          But if you make a good fan fic, and we are lucky that the show turns out to go back in a good track, then we have *two* good stories. Much better than none.

          3
          0

        Comment was deleted

        0
        0

        I was trying to speed up the bridge sequence anyway, so did this. Seon-ha, you are welcome to make ten better ones, which I believe you can, when you have time.

        2
        1

    “Rivers know this: there is no hurry. We shall get there some day” A.A. Milne

    6
    1

    People usually post on the fan wall their thoughts of what their watching. If I can’t wait for the recap I just post it like that. If I comment on a lot of details of the episode I use give a spoiler warning.

    Imo having three posts for a show per week could make the site kinda messy, and the recaps could lose their meaning: maybe people that already had their discussion on the drama hang outs for episode 1 and the episode 2, won’t feel the need to read the recaps and participate in that discussion. On the other hand the people that only read recaps wouldn’t be able to participate on the previous discussions because they didn’t watch the show.

    11
    2

      Yup. You could just post on the fan wall with a title like, Destined With You Ep. 9 Discussion or something like that. Add a spoiler tag as well tho that’s not actually required on the fan wall.

      I’d just @ the people I think were interested in the discussion otherwise the fan wall rolls by.

      6
      0

      That’s why my idea was to put up the space for the next recap in advance, so that there was an “episode 9 and 10” place that started out with just this text “Your recap will be here soon” but the “discussion and comments” section was open from the start. And the recap would just be uploaded there when ready.

      2
      1

        Ahhh. So you mean something like the recap post but without the recap at first?

        Like a DwY post every Wednesday, that will work like a drama hang out for two days, and then they edit it and add the recap when it’s done?

        I guess that could work for some people, since some beanies don’t really post on their fan walls.

        2
        2

As a little warm-up for tonight, here is Shin-yu giving back for the cruel confession-ruse laid for Hong-jo.
And then, if it ain’t a hint of a smile on SML’s face! “Do you suffer ridiculously?”

2
0

I tried facemorphing to find my inner Poor Chaebol Doppelganger … this is me, if I looked like Kim Soo-Hyun, and he looked like me:

5
0

We all know this feeling

This was the one I wanted to make @attition so … thank you for helping me out!

12
14

About Destined With You SML, Jae-kyung: I promised to make an entire post about what a terrible person Jae-kyung is, gathering the spew of wrath I have spluttered in other comment’s sections, but I must admit that the worst part is the first part. I’ll start with that; his unbelievably cruel response to Hong-jo at first.

In the recap, that was described as turning her down “politely but firmly”. That would have been true, if Hong-jo had sprung at him with no warning, declaring her love out of the blue. But did she? Let’s recount.
Hong-jo does not expect anybody to like her, and is used to getting rejected. Kindness makes her come out of her shell quickly, but also then is she used to being treated badly Na-yeon, so this is how her confession to Jaekyung goes. I will recount the dialogue here, comparing with a normal, kind turning down.
Jae-kyung gives Hong-jo a shirt he bought, because he got her other shirt wet, because he is very correct.
Hong-jo blushes. Normal response: If you are interested, or a friend close enough to tease about how well you know each other, you may point it out. Otherwise, you don’t.
Jae-kyung points out she is blushing. In this “polite” way: “Your face is red whenever I see you. Is that because of your name?”
Now, many episodes later, we of course know that he only very rarely is funny when he wants to be. This is a clear example. Anyone who has a “fun” name have heard the most obvious jokes a million times, and when it is combined with something about your body or emotions … just don’t say that.
Hong-jo says she only blushes in front of people she likes. Normal response: “Oh, thank you! It’s nice to have colleagues you find yourself at ease with! See you around, buh-bye!” Or some other absolutely placing it at the “good colleague”-level. If you have one, you might mention your girl- or boyfriend, or even a pretend one. Or a fun story about someone you know, who blushed once. De-escalate!
Jae-kyung: Silence. No movement. Clearly indicating that he heard what she said, and is waiting.
Hong-jo: “Did what I just said sound like a confession?” Normal response: If you are not interested, you politely, but firmly say that oh no, you totally get that was not what was meant. And again, deflect, change subject, or tell a related, but uncharged story about things that by accident sounded like a confession, or about blushing, or about work. Something unromantic.
Jae-kyung says, with the softest of tones, standing rather close to her, and looking directly at her: “Yes, it did to me. Was it not?”
This makes me so angry! This is where I start comparing this terrible conversation with an Åle-ruse, which alas, is not called and eel’s ruse in English, but an eel fyke net.
Anyhow, the idea is, every opening in this is so inviting and easy to go into, but hard to back out of. It is a succession of funnels leading you further into the trap. (See picture below.)
And even now, Hong-jo does not jump into confessing. She turns her head towards that soft voice, who just asked for confirmation that this was a love confession from her. (“Politely, but firmly” – Hmph!) She looks up, her face shining with hope, encountered with all these signs of interest from her crush, and he has plenty of time to start various deflection techniques, but no, he waits for her answer, to like, have everything completely clear, before turning her down. She also waits for him to meet her halfways, but he just stays there, looking at her, expectantly. She looks down, and …
Hong-jo: “Well …”
Jae-kyung: [waits. Says nothing, the *-hole.] This must mean he really wants to hear her answer. In any normal situation, that would mean he was hoping for a yes.
Hong-jo is now certain that he likes her, too. Very much, even, because this is already far beyond first casual not-really-a-date like asking to take a coffee together tomorrow. And she says: “Actually, it is. I had no idea that you were interested in me, too.” And she goes on to recount how she has liked him for some time, …
Jae-Kyung interrupts her and says:
“I like you too”.
And she stops her recounting and looks at him, saying silently: “Really?”

And now it’s time for Jae-kyung to deliver the final blow. I have no idea why he hates her so much. Later, it seems like he kind of like her, but in this scene, he acts like someone who really hates her and is getting revenge for … whatever offense she may have committed unknowingly. Maybe being liked by his crush.
For whatever reason, it is now that he “politely, but firmly” says: “But I like you as a person.”
“If someone deserves a compliment, I’ll make a post.” (See how he only now does the “someone” or “colleague” thing I talked about right at the top? It is waaay to late to be nice now!) And he continues about all kindnesses from his side is directed at “someone”, not “her” as such.
And then he has the audacity to say to her: “I’ll forget what happened just now. I hope you won’t act awkward, when you see me”.
Sure pal, why should she? You just lured her into confessing and then acted as if she had been speaking out of line.

Well, this was the conversation that really made me hate Jae-kyung. And I have been on both sides of a tentative confession, and I have never been that mean to anybody, nor has anybody ever been so mean to me, in that kind of situation. Thankfully. And of course, mostly, all these pauses would be spread over a longer time, and would either end with the deflecting much sooner, or (rarer, to be honest) slowly be met with the interest of the other part. Because normal people don’t coax a confession out of someone just to have the chance to “politely, but firmly” turn them down. If you can feel it coming on, do like Elizabeth Benneth did when horrible cousin Collin was trying to propose to her, and try to prevent the intimate, confessional mood from happening.
I have gathered more about Jae-kyung, but this was a long post, so I guess I’ll continue in the comments with the rest, less incriminating stuff.

11
41

    Thank you for taking out the time and reviewing this conversation so minutely. You have called out Jae-kyung’s behavior pulling out all the receipts!

    Any future “I want to give you butterflies”, “You will bloom for me like a flower when I call your name” is so hypocritical.

    His attitude seems more dog-in-the-manger … I won’t Shin-yu have what I don’t have.

    7
    2

      If his main motivation is envy, it is not hypocritical, it is just unfair. Because he just wants to take away from Shin-yu to be the one who makes Hong-jo fluttery.
      Seon-ha seems to think that Jae-kyung is simply confused as to what he wants from Hong-jo, too. Or that he knows what he would like, but doesn’t think he deserves it. He doesn’t seem that confused to me, but he can 1) gradually become nicer, which I hope, and value his role as a friend for Hong-jo higher than as a competitor for everything with SHin-yu, or 2) The writers can decide or be told to stay with the pointers and not state right out that he is gay, a bit like in the good manager, that didn’t mention that word at all, and even had some fans wondering why Kim didn’t date the FL in the end. Or 3) dilute it, like in my otherwise favourite show It’s Okay not to be OKay, where the faithful, ever hopeful friend of ML just kind of falls for one woman, and then another, after having followed ML around for like, ten years, allegedly hoping to be “a brother” in that family. (I like that character so much, I am pretty disappointed they dilute his closeted bitterness in the end. He is so interesting, or was).

      1
      0

      He is interested in her because Shin Yu is. Kinda like Jealousy Incarnate but JI had so much heart and soul that it is not comparable.

      2
      1

        The formula may seems familiar – ML and SML trying to out-do each other for FL.

        However, as @CecilieDK has very accurately pointed out in DwY the SML does not seem to have any romantic interest or tension towards FL.

        Whereas Jealousy Incarnate was 🔥

        2
        2

    PS: When I talked about Hong-jo being used to someone pretending to like her and then being cruel, I inserted a bracketed *cough* Na-yeon *cough*. But the HTML system took away those brackets even if the didn’t recognize the command inside. If you wonder about that.

    3
    1

      I just read it as:

      “she used to being treated badly by Na-yeon…”

      😃

      Brackets of course make more sense … but I guess one thing Beanie learn very quickly is – reading between the lines or even strikethrough!

      3
      0

    Second Part of My Post About SML Jae-kyung
    Jae-kyung only decides to persue Hong-jo after the not-so-straight secretary that he shares with Shin-yu says he ought to do it.
    At no point is there anything resembling sexual or romantic tension between Jae-kyung and Hong-jo, but I think maybe he begins to like her, a bit, “as a person”, as times goes by. She is a dear girl, hard not to like, really. But until further notice, the height of his passion for her has been smile-laughing benignly at her confusion at the roof top, ep. 7. But obviously, he put much more energy into beating Shin-yu at getting through the door than at getting close to Hong-ju. Or protecting her, e.g. by setting up those cameras he wouldn’t let Shin-yu put up.
    Otherwise, at the best of times, it’s unsmiling or hint of smiling kindness. And at the worst of times, as said, ice cold cruelty.
    Or he expresses himself in patriarchal concern, which maybe is only either to beat ML Shin-yu at something, or maybe rather because he just don’t want them together. But not because of love for Hong-jo.

    Some think it is because of his envy of Shin-yu, and that might be true! He might be keeping Hong-ju on a string simply because Shin-yu wants her.
    I have a theory more alongside it. In K-dramas, they sometime lay out the tracks for this and then don’t follow through, but …

    After being advised by his secretary that he should date, and that he should take that cuteness offered, he moved in below her, and on her prompt, he invited her to a “Housewarming Party for Two”.
    Hong-jo could smell eggplants and oysters. Nudge, nudge, need I say more?
    Jae-kyung in his usual, unsmiling style: No oysters in my food. Only eggplants.
    Hong-jo: MMmhhhh, Eggplants, and oysters!
    Jae-kyung: Eggplants. And more eggplants. No Oysters.

    Now, I posted this idea elsewhere too, and got the response (I’m quoting below, @panshel ) that this scene conveyed that Hong-jo was dumb and had to be corrected twice. I don’t agree, but if I did, I would wonder why the writers of the script felt they had to convey that.

    panshel
    September 16, 2023 at 3:54 PM
    My only takeaway from that scene is our heroine is dumb. He corrected her once already, yet she made the same mistake again.
    There has been no indication that Jae-kyung is gay. On the contrary, I believe that he has liked Hong-jo ever since he posted a compliment for her. He was just pushing her away due to his dysfunctional family. He told her as much when he rejected her, “I’m very cold to my family… If I weren’t who I was, when you confessed your feelings for me, I would’ve been happy.”
    quote finished
    I am really happy that someone will engage with my post! I must say, though, that him having a cold relationship to his family could be caused by homophobia in the family. That is not something I can just conclude, I am just saying it’s a possibility. Many gay people become estranged (or alienated, or wh

    5
    0

    …continued Third Part of My Post About SML Jae-kyung
    I am really happy that someone will engage with my post! I must say, though, that him having a cold relationship to his family could be caused by homophobia in the family. That is not something I can just conclude, I am just saying it’s a possibility. Many gay people become estranged (or alienated, or what the word is) from their families – hence the generous and popular Voluntarily Hugging Mothers along pride parades, supplying any gay people in need of that with a bit of the family hugging they miss from home after coming out. (Which may apply to some other young man in this story, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves).

    I don’t really think “I’m very cold to my family… If I weren’t who I was, when you confessed your feelings for me, I would’ve been happy,” speaks against the idea that Jae-kyung might be gay. I don’t think it speaks against that at all, actually. “If I weren’t who I was …”.
    He told Hong-jo he had lived alone for a long time, and arguably described the condo he used to live in as something much like a closet, with blinds at every window. Now, he said, he wanted a garden. And then he and she sat down to look at the wall outside the window.

    Some emphasize his envy towards Shin-yu as his motivating factor, (Nota Bene: Envy, not jealousy) and for sure, he puts much more energy into preventing the two from being together than he puts into getting close to Hong-jo, or even into protecting her from anything other than Shin-yu.
    The writers and instructors have made it abundantly clear by having him smile so little – slowly, slowly, he begins to smile at Hong-jo like a friend would, and good for him to be able to smile, but it is nothing like someone actually in love with her.
    And also, as some noted, he was remarkably nasty towards Shin-yu after learning about his illness. What I saw as Hong-jo’s attempt at nuancing Jae-kyungs perception of Shin-yu as a spoiled rich kid, was taken up and used in the most harmful way, and also in a way likely to further alienate the two.

    After the connection to Shin-yu has been (more or less) broken, Hong-jo goes to the shaman, who says: “Was it the year of the Horse? She loved the King, but she couldn’t have him. So she hit on another guy. But he turned out to be a eunuch. That’ exactly what you’re doing.”
    Hong-jo: “Will I meet such a guy?”
    Shaman: “Let’s see. He is honest and strong. He is right beside you.”

    Now arguably, being honest and strong could be said, to some extend, about ML as well as SML. But who the King and the Eunuch are, that is obvious, am I right? Though I don’t like the direct associating of being gay with being a eunuch, for the purpose of Hong-jo it is the same: However nice and forthcoming, he is romantically and sexually unavailable.

    6
    3

      Second and third parts of the post –

      You have painstakingly picked up the breadcrumbs that the writer may have laid down for a final reveal of Jae-kyung’s character. The shaman lady’s forewarning does indeed seem to point to him.

      I had responded earlier (in the recap thread) that I like this rabbit hole. Now, I’m ready to follow you. Okay, so shall we start!!

      1. Till episode 8, we don’t know much about Jae-kyung’s backstory, motivations or thought process. Initially he comes across as very repressed and only able to be himself with dogs.

      The only thing we know only about him are:

      – the little things he’s let slip (…and people lie all the time don’t they) about his family, his relationship to them, his previous dark, gloomy and closeted condo / apartment and that he has lived alone and is hence self-sufficient. To be fair I don’t think he is lying about any of these.

      – his actions
      a) he actively recruited Shin-yu to City Hall,
      b) he actively compelled a confession out of Hong-jo and then proceeded to reject her,
      c) we don’t know why he moved to Hong-jo’s building or whether he knew she lived there, but he has moved there after a fight with someone he used to live with (?) or paid the deposit for,
      d) he is more interested in blocking Shin-yu (never seen him more animated) than actually pursuing Hong-jo romantically,
      d) his regret at turning down Hong-jo and subsequent attempts at giving her butterflies sucks, luckily she’s immune but why is she giving him time of the day?
      e) he does seem to be opening up to Hong-jo as a friend (house warming party) but lacks social graces (asks her to come down later as he forgot to switch on the rice cooker),
      f) his 3 day sus “business” trip with the Mayor.

      These may not be enough to pin point Jae-kyung’s sexual orientation but the two other breadcrumbs of the secretary encouraging him to date and the shaman lady’s prediction do seem to tilt the balance.

      Also, his extremely repressed behavior in office and personally (we have only seen him interact personally with the two leads, although the landlady seems to have a good impression of him) is doing him no favors.

      Jae-kyung only seems animated while trying to keep Shin-yu away from Hong-jo, but is it beating off a love rival or clinging onto a crush.

      So like another ongoing drama with a real life idol as ML is this also going to be a case of – everybody loves the ML … enough to kill for him.

      We do seem to be heading to the Joseon era story now so that is likely to offer clear character motivations and also whether Jae-kyung remembers the past – I do hope he is not the red hand.

      Even if Jae-kyung’s does turn out to be the eunuch attendent to the King, he may not necessarily be gay in this lifetime. If so, it might be too on the nose. However, I do agree with you that any which way he is unavailable for Hong-jo romantically. The shaman lady’s statement that “He is honest and strong. He is right beside you.” does give me hope that perhaps

      3
      6

        I will re-read your comments better a bit later when I have proper time, and will have an opinion something, promise! 🙂

        1
        0

        As to c) it was pointed out to me (because I said that it seemed he maybe wasn’t a very generous or kind ex for someone) that in the Korean audio, he said “dad” in that sentence. Implying that his dad was a “grifter”. So that may very well be true, and let’s assume he doesn’t have a lover that he calls “dad”.

        2
        1

          🤣

          “let’s assume he doesn’t have a lover that he calls “dad”.”

          3
          0

        I think, or at least hope, that there’s a kind person in there behind all that non-smiling. But a person who needs to get out of his misandry.
        Like 2FL who is if possible even more terrible, but also seem to have the spurs of an interesting girl in there somewhere. Bu tonly if she changes *everything* about her lifestyle.

        1
        2

        As for breadcrumbs, I know I am one for finding hidden (sexual) meaning in what people eat and how (as seen elsewhere on my fan wall, with pictures or in the bingo cards and footnotes) but also … whatever for should they have that discussion about eggplants and oyster if it weren’t to tell us anything? Maybe only under the counter like in Chief Kim, but certainly, it’s not *nothing*.
        And when I say I find these things, you can go and look and tell me I have just gotten hit by conspiracy theory virus (“Everything means something!!”) but as opposed to reality, dramas are scripted, so when people do something abundant, there’s a reason. 😉

        3
        1

          Indeed, dramas are scripted … however sometimes the breadcrumbs don’t lead anywhere.
          I had to google the oyster reference to get your drift but I do agreebit was a good catch by you.

          0
          0

        As for d)
        He is pretty, and he seems kind, if you do not look too closely. He was the first to be surprisingly kind to her, and she liked him before that already, because he is a good colleague and, I imagine, a thorough and good higher ranking civil servant. He is an obvious prince charming until you are close to him and there is just *no* tension of the good kind. *No* tension.
        But a bit like ML, she is like … where did my love go? It’s bound to be here still, I’m sure I left it right here?
        But it’s not there.

        2
        0

        Comment was deleted

        0
        0

      Cont..

      The shaman lady’s statement that “He is honest and strong. He is right beside you.” does give me hope that perhaps he may not be that villainous after all.

      In the past life glimpses we have not seen Shin-yu in royal robes (as yet) and why do I have this sinking feeling it may turn out to be the cheating SFL’s bed mate.

      Much will depend on the writing of Jae-kyung’s character for the second half of the drama.  How well the writer sets out Jae-kyung’s character arc is moot. Till now he has not endeared himself to anyone (except the Mayor perhaps?).

      Will the writer actually go down the track of explicitly stating Jae-kyung’s sexual orientation and keeping his character motivations separate from this fact, or just rely on the shock reveal as the reason for his as yet unknown mis-deeds (apart from what you have discussed in part one of your post).

      Thank you once more for offering such a well analyzed character sketch of the SML based on our knowledge till half way into the drama. Here’s hoping the writer surprises us – in a good way please – not trying to out-Heartbeat, Heartbeat.

      3
      2

        I hope not *everybody* turns up in a mirror Joseon era timeline. I don’t want to spend the rest of the episodes at the Joseon court. I just want to hear about the curse and who our … OTP or what you call them …our FL and ML were.
        For 2FL and 2ML, there is plenty to uncover today. Though he has that not-interested-in-HJ-as-a-woman energy to the extreme, they *could* end up not going there officially and instead pair him with 2FL, saying that those two where wanting each other all along.
        BTW. 2ML finishes most sentences with a little determined grimace, and I see it as the actor’s way of avoiding a natural smile. 2ML does not behave natural with his face, and it is hard to achieve without some help. So instead of saying a line and follow up with a small smile, he follows up with a grimace you would use after … say, checking up what needed to be ordered for your company’s storage buildings. “And we are almost down on 3-inch nails … and oak, we need 2 unites of 5 yard planks. Call them and say it’s time we got a discount.” That kind of determined, but not exactly “brave”, not-smile but also not angry face.

        3
        1

          The only reason I am expecting Jae-kyung’s previous incarnation to turn up in Joseon is because of the shaman lady’s comment. A brief flashback to the origin of the Jang family generational curse will suffice for me.

          While I’m all for secondary couples (more than clingy and toxic SLs) … I don’t see it happening here for now.

          Ha joon as an actor is meh … he had that grimace face in Crazy Love too.

          2
          3

            Her comment *could* be just an allegory. What Holly Bourne’s calls The Musical Chairs of Love is not a new thing. If the king is taken, maybe there’s a nice guy around who isn’t. And then as now, maybe there’s a reason he doesn’t have a girlfriend already.

            1
            0

            Hmm … so you think the enunch reference by the shaman lady may not necessarily be physical but mental or emotional unavailability. Interesting.

            1
            0

            I just mean, the eunuch doesn’t have to be “Jae-Kyung in a former life”.
            And they (Jae-kyung and Eunuch) are sexually only superficially alike, (also assuming, as I do, that Jae-Kyung is gay). Because eunuchs can have sex, but not children. Gays can have children, but they are usually not very interested in sex with women.
            Eunuchs are often made to be much less in the comedies that feature them, and let’s just go along with that: In all cases, the kind of physical relationship she would want would not be available. And that’s the allegory. It doesn’t mean that JK is necessarily a eunuch in his past life. I hope not, as a matter of fact.
            It could just mean: “You wanted the real thing, the one everybody wanted, but you (thought you ) couldn’t get him, so you took another one, but he couldn’t fill that man’s place in your life and elsewhere. “

            2
            0

        As for Joseon, I think many things point to ML being the shaggy dog. So are we up to waiting for 10 years, and *then* something good will happen? But if she has to take care of him, like with a shaggy dog, it will be nice to.
        I am not the only one who likes ML in a mess. 🐕❤️

        1
        0

      I hear you.

      I will say that I authentically think he didn’t know he was moving in below her. If he did know that, it would change things completely. I don’t think he knew.

      Funny about the sexual innuendos of eggplants and oysters. I probably do buy that one. And, I also take your point about what the shaman said.

      However, I don’t need or want to put Jae-kyung in any box one way or another. Same with Do-shik from HeartBeat. He’s working things out in his own way.

      Hong-jo is in harm’s way as he does it, as she’s not as confused about him as he is about everyone else in the world…so that stinks. But I don’t think that Jae-kyung knows anything about himself besides that he’s not worthy of love.

      If Jae-kyung knew himself and knew what he wanted, I’d be inclined to “hate” him. As it is, I just find it all tragic. He could turn out to be a real asshole, but for now, I just find him sad.

      3
      0

    I’m not a Jae-kyung apologist, BUT…

    …You just lured her into confessing and then acted as if she had been speaking out of line.

    This he definitely did. Shin-yu has been convinced from moment #1 that Jae-kyung has always had feelings for Hong-jo, and I’m of a mind to believe him.

    Jae-kyung, however, feels that he is not worthy of love. This became quite clear to me when he eventually sits Hong-jo down at that coffee shop and says, “You like what you see on the outside, but inside I’m such a cruel mess (even to my own family) that there’s no way you should have feelings for me, I don’t deserve anyone’s attention.”

    This is not great, and it’s no “excuse” for the way he behaved in that initial confession but it does contextualize that interaction within a person who has no feelings of self-worth.

    In that moment, he is actively struggling with the fact that he *does* have feelings for her (a struggle keeping him silent and pensive/unresponsive). He feels it deeply within himself that he should not accept her feelings (but really does want to), and by the end of the conversation he (like Shin-yu) retreats to cowardice and allows himself to actually say “I have feelings for you…,” (he could have chosen differently, less-charged words), but then ends that sentence with, “like a colleague.” (although it’d be said in the reverse order in Korean naturally–I’d have to go listen to the real words again to know how he expresses himself).

    Anyway, NOT a Jae-kyung apologist (clearly that’s a big ol’ lie), but these are my two-cents’ on your first part. 🙂

    Yes, he’s caring more about himself than her in this moment (not the most loving thing), and yes, what he is doing is a form of noble idiocy (not anyone’s favoriter behavior), but I would not put Jae-kyung in the “horrible” camp. He just feels that he is completely unloveable.

    Indeed, just like everyone else in this drama, he’s just utterly broken. Doing the wrong things for the right reasons and doing the right things only accidentally.

    6
    2

      👏 👏 👏

      Absolutely Jae-kyung’s defining characteristic is self-hatred, which leads to his extreme repression.

      The last paragraph of your comment is 🤌

      “Indeed, just like everyone else in this drama, he’s just utterly broken. Doing the wrong things for the right reasons and doing the right things only accidentally.”

      1
      0

      I like the theory, I just don’t see any attraction mirrored in his eyes or movements. But his better self must be in there beneath all that stuffiness, and I hope we get to meet him. Maybe even so that HJ is swayed back to her former crush for a moment.

      1
      1

        Maybe I’ll gif it–but neither did I in the first few episodes. I do now, certainly since he’s moved in…after she was so adorably excited about his arrival.

        My evidence that he’s always liked her comes actually from Shin-yu, who, as I said, was way more sure before I was–and must have had his reason.

        2
        2

    Comment was deleted

    0
    0

    Comment was deleted

    0
    0

    [Check out Seon-ha’s brilliant essay and me saying, yes, but … a million times on Soen-ha’s fan wall]:
    I don’t think my argument goes further. If others see a desire I don’t, that’s what I have.
    Also, to me, the bit about oysters and eggplants was what in Danish is called et vink med en vognstang, “a waving of a horse carriage shaft/wagon pole” (se ill.), i.e. a very clear hint.
    https://imgflip.com/gif/801nq0

    And it would fit realistically and sadly with having bad relations to your family and self-hatred, and also with being in general kind but also weirdly unaffected by someone’s feminine charm. But considering the argument about money he had with his father, his father’s threat of coming to the city hall was probably about arriving drunk rather than outing him in the welcome area of the city hall.
    It’s more exciting if the writers could make *all* of it work together, and @Seon-ha s argument for liking Jae-Kyung is good. It is!
    It seems to me they have drawn up a character with so many hints and so much enigma that they will inevitably disappoint us. But it’s okay, or at least: I really enjoyed discussing this with Seon-ha and everybody.

    0
    0

Here is the link for basic info of Behind Your Touch
And discussion of the facts, I suggest, happens below here. I very much hope someone will make something way smarter than this.
This is just taken for Wikipedia, and then facts and clues can simply be written below each person. And add person, if they are not there. You can ieven insert (small) pictures for identification. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_BlSadwx8m4gyui7za3pc0cV3mDuv3vG5Sw2xoJvx2s/edit?usp=sharing
But keep discussions here.

2
0

Rewatched Strong Girl Do Bong-Soon and again loved the story of the super cute girl and her attempts to stay cute and save everybody at the same time. With glimpses of real person with real hopes and dreams once in a while. And her admiring boss who kind of broke down to giggling school-boy state in the face of her strength, cuteness and sexiness (whether on purpose or not).
I could do without so much toilet humour, but then again, it’s fun to have things exaggerated once in a while.
While I have a hard time with the weird depictions of LGBT-characters, I must say that Mr. Oh is also actually kind of cool – and, I think, has good fashion sense, and the most-of-the-time-in-the closet gay is really nice, actually. It’s just really sad to see predatory aggressive gay characters like Oh, because the rendition confirms the prejudice that gays are dangerous to straight people, and thus helps bigots justify their aggressions.
This time was able to scroll quickly over the creepy kidnapper parts that still seem for me to be unnecessarily sexualized in a bad way.
Long-lasting crush Guk-doo was kind of frightening in his insisting machoness, but the last scenes with him made one think that under different circumstances, he could have grown to something else than the almighty sole ruling and uncooperative protector he displayed through most of the story.
I am looking forward to see how the twins are doing, … imagine a couple of schoolgirls or teenagers like that, and with the closeness that twins often have! I hope the LGBT-depictions will be modernized in the announced follow-up.

8
7

I have talked about ET’ing as a gesture meaning male love, and now I happened to see someone using this gesture with his own hands to underline what he was explaining.
This is from Strong Girl Bong-soon, the nice secretary who is actually a not-crazy homosexual, so yayh! For including him in that story.

4
0

A Hole To See The Sky Through
I love this drama, Behind Your Touch Here at episode 6 I am impressed with how fun and also subtly touching (my heart!) it is. Have we not always wanted Twentyfive – Twentyone to have a happy ending? And here, a kind of pre-liminary happy “ending” with these old, embarrassing underpants becoming A Hole To See The Sky Through, the famous Yoko Ono piece, here honoured in the statue Goddess of Liberty 2 (1981) by Danish artist Susanne Ussing.
Avantgarde art, smartingly beautiful pop culture, and crude humour brought together so effortlessly as if that was just a normal thing to do.

9
6

    Ep 7/8 are even better imo!

    2
    2

      I’m not there yet 🙂 SO I have something to look forward too.
      But if they have a reference like this, please tell me (preferably with some links) in case it’s a piece of art or something else important I don’t know.

      1
      0

      Just saw episode 10 (SPOILERS)
      and just had to say to someone that this is getting far more complicated than I imagined it would be! It’s still good, and probably better for it. But it makes the wait hard when there are so many ifs and but(t)s. Like it has gone from one or two theories to 11½ theories about how it has all happened. And it seems like it might be a whole network of people who has something to hide, and maybe all those that we learned was at the farm at that day all have become some kind of psychic? (Clearly, Mr. whatshisname catlover is psychic at the touch of metal, or something. In keeping with the style of this story, someone has probably fallen into the farm’s dunghill, too.

      1
      1

        I’m partial to the theory that it is a network of people, too! I just still don’t understand the motive.

        I feel like while we learned a lot today, it’s still all over the place! At this rate I won’t see the reveal coming, but I also worry it won’t really surprise me because we’ve suspected nearly everyone at this point lol.

        I too think Seonwoo is the psychic, but not the killer. I’m curious to see how his power manifests and hope we get a lot more answers next weekend.

        1
        2

          I someone should feel like making a fact sheet, like
          this person had this motive and this person did that … I would love to see it and use it for an ongoing “What do we know now” discussion.
          To be honest I am almost back at hunches, because there are just so many vague pictures and half-facts, and facts that we learn aren’t fact.
          I have not checked if this is possible, but everyone that was murdered could be the murderer of the previous victim, why not?

          1
          0

          And of course, Cha stinks of “something is not right”. But my first and strongest suspicion is catloverboy. Now maybe I think he has come especially for Cha. But there are so many unknowns in this equation.

          0
          0

Rookie Historian Goo Hae-Ryung: Lovely rewatch. I think maybe I liked it even better on rewatch, feeling more at home in Joseon now, so the plot was easier to follow. I felt almost this time my main character was that long-lasting loneliness of our prince. And here’s my Bingo Card.

6
0

Fight (for) My Way appendix: This is sweet, innocent Dong-man, yes, that’s the name, fighting his way out from an evolving door. (Click to see movement). The girl in front of him pushed on the door, so now he has taken over and is helping her with one arm on each side of her. honi soit qui mal y pense.
The Bingo Card and elaborating footnotes are on my fan wall two comments below this.

1
0

I want to show this exchange of looks to whomever needs it. 🙂 You need to click the gif for it to work.

6
10

Fight (for) My Way: I have a lot to say about this drama, and I have said some in comments beneath recaps, but will probably repeat myself a bit in comments below here soon, or in tomorrows “What are we watching”. But here the bingo card … there are a lot of footnotes and explanations, and honestly, they are maybe the fun part?

2
0

I am watching Fight for my way, and it feels like all fans of that drama needs to chain watch Heidi Gardner do \”Every Boxer\’s Wife in every Boxer Drama Ever\” from SNL
I have pre-googled a bit for you.
You’re welcome!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=snl+boxer%27s+girlfriend

3
0

As regards discussion of Office Drama (and the role of a loyal nerd-type in the UK- and US-version contra an imagined Korean version:
And Greetings to Little @ghostoftim

4
2

    Nice work on the character names! 👏

    2
    1

      I was thinking of their corresponding characters in the UK/US versions. I am not necessarily going for a secret love between Tim and Dawn in this version, But that guy just seemed the nearest in personality to Dawn/Pam.
      The fun part is the turning around of values where Gareth as the intensely loyal, nerdy, hard-working co-worker becomes the centre of the story. Oh of course is much nicer than Dave/Michael, at least to his inferiors (but not his wife), but one could keep the “unconventional boss is a nuisance” perspective and broaden it. And the constant inviting for drink could be shown in more of a “Oh no, not again” way.

      1
      0