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In a number of ways, it seems to me that Jae-kyung and Shin-yu are basically very similar men. They don’t actually constitute much of a choice for Hong-jo, when looking in from the outside.
They are both used to getting what they want on the basis of their physical appearance rather than the content of their character, and they both see something in Hong-jo that they can’t quite put their finger on, until it’s possible they can’t have it…and then that’s all they want (for reasons of “past life” or “jealousy” or whatever). They both also need to know her feelings first before truly committing their own. Lame. But similarly lame.
One place they may differ, though, might be hinted at in the gifs above. Clearly the production team wanted us to see a parallel here in terms of the framing of these scenes and the shot sequencing. In terms of content, though…Whereas Jae-kyung is thinking of Hong-jo in a moment of her talking about him, Shin-yu is thinking of Hong-jo in a moment of her talking about herself.
Moreover, I’d argue that they both have different relationships to the “power of words,” a concept that this show is clearly honing in on. Whereas Jae-kyung is somewhat mystified by the fact that his words (compliments on the message board, for example) have real impact on other people, Shin-yu seems mystified that his words are insufficient to capture Hong-jo’s undivided attention (the “Secretary Kim” chair scene, for example [Image Credit: @cecilieDK]).
For my money, Words-Plus-Actions, here, are to be interpreted as “spells.” Neither words alone, nor actions alone are “sufficient.”
How the show will work through this state of affairs (if the show actually works through this) remains to be seen. But as always with DWY for me, what they’ve done up to this point is intriguing enough…and I’ll just write my own conclusion if I don’t like the “real” one 😁
> Whereas Jae-kyung is somewhat mystified by the fact that his words (compliments on the message board, for example) have real impact on other people, Shin-yu seems mystified that his words are insufficient to capture Hong-jo’s undivided attention.
I love it. I wonder if the show is smart enough to actually go there and compare the lead’s approach. How the show treated Na Yeon, at least till the point I watched, made me think that every good point written in the show would be compromised for the sake of making the leads more likable.
In the meantime, we have heart a little more about Na Yeon. Not enough to really like her, but still enough to nuance her desperate attempts to hold on to Shin-yu.
Heard, not heart.
Frankly, I doubt the show will pick this up and run with it…but wouldn’t it be glorious if it did???
@ceciliedk also has it right below…there’s just the sliiiightest hope that Na-yeon might get an interesting story line. I’m worried because of the preview for next week about her (and Jae-kyung for that matter) but my only job right now is to not get my hopes up and just enjoy the ride!!!
I often make alternative endings in my head, but I don’t write it out, you know, with dialogue and such.
For Mr. Queen, I have sketched up a whole second season, or rather, two ways the second season could be *so* great, both ideas centered around the girl who fell into the water and woke up as a modern chef (though she probably didn’t have any cooking skills).
How do you write your fan fic? I will love to read it, when most likely the lost opportunities of grandeur of this show in a few weeks will keep me up at night.
I write my fanfic with gifs 😏
She’s … THE GIPHIATOR!
„ They both also need to know her feelings first before truly committing their own.“
Yes! Exactly why an almost confession (or even real confession, see Shinyu on the bridge or when drunk) never sounds really authentic (at least to me, they almost sounded out of the blue-ish), because it had to be „pushed forward“ by her initial commitment – and „spells“. Oh, deeply troubled, unconfident men! 😆 Such a nice explanation, @attiton !
I don’t think they need to know her feelings to be commited.
Jae-Kyung always knew how she felt about him. Her red cheeks gave her away everytime… But by rejecting her, he kinda missed the timing. Now, he knows she doesn’t love him anymore because she doesn’t react the same way. But he still has hopes because Shin-Yu’s situation is very messy.
For Shin-Yu, he needed more to know his own feelings. He never loved someone, he doesn’t understand these feelings. As a person who always was the one who was loved, it found unfair she wasn’t smitten by him at the beginning and he was the only one suffering because of the love spell. But it never stopped him. He always said to her how he felt about everything. Now, he understood that his feelings are real, he decided to act on them.
This post was spawned by a conversation I had a few days back with @cecilieDK on the subject of Destined with You. The question that came up was, “Did Jae-kyung actually have authentic feelings for Hong-jo prior to moving in downstairs from her.”
My answer is in the comment replies below. TL;DR: Yes, he did. But, I think the real question, especially given what we’ve seen in episode 10, is why did he fall for her? The answer to that will have to wait until a later gif-essay. In the meantime…
I will be proceeding chronologically, as that makes the most logical sense to me when discussing when Jae-kyung becomes hooked by Hong-jo…or when Jae-kyung allows himself to feel what he feels about Hong-jo without fear.
My thesis here is that Jae-kyung knows precisely how attractive he is to all the people around him, but that he, himself, doesn’t really get it, and, moreover, doesn’t know what to do with this power over other people that he didn’t proactively acquire for himself. Instead, it feels more like a magic power, external to him that he casts. Something that was mysteriously given to him through his genes, his family…whatever…but it was nothing he earned. He earned none of this attention. To him, it feels fake, false, superficial, inauthentic.
The scene above is (more-or-less) the first time we see Jae-kyung and Hong-jo interacting directly. His face is all care. Look at the way his eyes search over Hong-jo as she talks. The irony here is that Hong-jo knows exactly how much NOT danger she was in and how much Jae-kyung’s attention seems out of place. Jae-kyung doesn’t have that attitude. Everything appears a real and present danger to him. He’s offering something honest, but frankly, how could she not misinterpret his caring as loving affection?? She would not be wrong. But here, I state…he doesn’t have feelings for her beyond her humanity.
This secondary gif records how he looks at her when she first enters the elevator. She is all flushed with excitement to be alone with him in a closed room. He is mainly paying attention to the fact that she seems to be (surprisingly) trying to protect him, when he knows that needs no such thing. He cares about this act of hers. He cares a lot. But not because he’s attracted to her, but instead (like a self-centered ass) it’s because he doesn’t understand what’s happening and doesn’t want to be beholden to her.
This secondary gif is particularly heart breaking, as Hong-jo is showing her full (authentic, real, and accurate) assessment of just how much danger she was NOT in when the protesters threw liquid at her…but Jae-kyung doesn’t assess that same situation properly. He just seems to have seen a real threat. He was wrong, and because of this, he’s even more mystified by her actions. He doesn’t need (deserve) protecting: “What’s her deal?”
Soon, they’re out on the front steps of Onju City Hall. This is all still in Episode 1, for those keeping track. Here, Jae-kyung tries to show his sense of humor. He’s not really got one that takes “other people” into consideration (yet). I consider this moment his “turning the corner.” He’s decided to try to connect with her. He doesn’t know how. Everyone always wants to connect with him for no apparent reason. But something about that scene (or the scene in the secondary gifs with Shin-yu!!!) leads him to invite her to a coffee shop.
This secondary gif happens before the “coffee shop” and is the moment when Jae-kyung visibly shows his care for Hong-jo’s damaged forehead. She might well remember that she fantasized about him coming to her when she hurt herself, soothing her pain.
She then also has a direct re-fantasy of what he says, this time with Vaseline on the lens. She wants to see what she wants to see, and who can blame her?? I can’t. But I also wonder, who’s more delusional at this point, I ask? Hong-jo for “reading into things?” Or, Jae-kyung for not being able to see his own agency and how he actually has an impact on other people?
I love it! I am not sure I see more than the formerly mentioned correct good colleague, but maybe you are right.
If he forgets all about egg plants and starts cooking with real oysters in his food, maybe he could make the SFL happy.
This is (hopefully if the gif works) JK flirting with Hong-jo but again, his focus is on Shin-yu. He is turned towards Shin-yu’s door, standing so close so it’s not that easy to get past him.
Go sleeeep, Cecilie….all this will be here in the morning….. 🙂
She’s leaving, and as soon as she is not talking to JK, he turns to Shin-yu again. He doesn’t pop up on her floor to deliver his trademark jokes – no, right in front of Shin-yu’s office is the place to go.
(BTW, in the first gifabove here, Shin-yu and Hong-jo is talking to each other, but JKs focus is unwaveringly Shin-yu).
If this is your point, I agree he’s jealous here, but Jae-kyung doesn’t show jealousy towards Shin-yu until after he moves in downstairs. If anything, it’s Shin-yu who (rightly) maintains his jealousy of Jae-kyung until the actual present moment in the drama.
No, my point is that it is all about showing Shin-yu. That’s why this scene is right in front of Shin-yu’s door, not near *her* office.
I mean, Jae-kyung wants to triumph over Shin-yu. So that’s his focus.
OK, but what’s he showing Shin-yu apart from a form of “peeing around his woman” like a dog does its space? That, to me, is just jealousy—and again, if I might protect my argument—something that happens entirely after he moves in below Hong-jo and accepts his feelings for her.
It is playing with the other one’s jealousy. Shin-yu is jealous, and suffering, and Jae-kyung is the one to be there and make that happen.
I found myself turning this question over after watching ep 10 today too! Still mulling over it so am looking forward to reading your thoughts in the meantime!
However, before we get to that coffee shop scene, I need to take a moment to divert your attention towards the “main event.” The time where Jae-kyung flattens Hong-jo in the street.
Could I ask that you hold the possibility in your mind that he was authentically confused? And could I ask that the gif above suggests confusion rather than consternation?
As a surprise second inline gif, though, here’s the real deal-killer for Jae-kyung, despite my request to you, dear reader. This is the moment when he says “I have feelings for you” as a full separate sentence (even in Korean) from … “as a person.” There’s no real justification for this besides a self-centered fear. But here he has a companion in Shin-yu.
As a secondary gif here’s Jae-kyung leaving the scene of this interaction. He’s ashamed. He knows he did the wrong thing. It may seem like he’s worried what others may think, and if that’s the case, my argument here is damaged…but I don’t think so given what’s coming up, and given the parallels to how Shin-yu behaves just after Jae-kyung leaves. Both of these men are mental children who don’t know themselves, and Hong-jo is caught in the crossfire. She really is.
Cecilie’s not wrong…Jae-kyung’s no “smiler.” But when Hong-jo enters the coffee shop, he authentically smiles at her. I mean, perhaps there’s some inauthenticity there, as when he smiles after she asks for a ridiculous “Iced Hot Latte”, but still. He clearly wants to see her, at least to clear the air and exculpate him from having had direct impact on her that he didn’t intend (is my claim).
He’s starting to imagine a world where he has some responsibility for his attractiveness. That he actually did contribute to her attraction to him.
This secondary gif is Jae-kyung authentically wondering why she likes him. I’m asking you to imagine that he really doesn’t get it.
OK, here’s where we get to the secondary argument centering on Male Trauma Syndrome. We eventually learn in this scene that Jae-kyung quintessentially doesn’t feel worthy of love (like, he’s never earned it…and he wouldn’t know how to do that).
When he hears that Hong-jo has feelings for him because of the things she’s “heard about him,” or that she’s “seen him do,” he sort of goes dead (which for me is a form of flipping the hell out), saying, “You don’t know me inside because of what you see on the outside.”
And yet, here he acknowledges the division between what he feels and what he can do. This is a noble idiocy move. No doubt about it. That’s no good. However (하지만), I stand here before you arguing that this is ALSO the moment where he admits to her that his feelings are real…he just can’t act on them because of his external constraings.
This secondary gif is the kicker argument for why Jae-kyung hates himself, and feels unworthy of any love within for the DWY universe (in my opinion). Because he holds no love for his family, he is broken beyond repair. LOOK AT HA JOON’S FACE. I just can’t.
K-dramas often wave you around the nose with diverse characters and then end up shifting the reason in some shell game. But what I see is internalised homophobia, ejection from family, and “If I weren’t who I was” – well, who? Just “bad person” out of the blue?
Or someone who can feel at best platonic love towards women and hates himself for it?
Yeah, but there are a lot more reasons for hating oneself that being gay. Hating your parents who while kind were useless and a financial burden on you, or hating them for being terrible for ages and only now getting on the right path – all this could be a reason.
Sure! And there are other reasons than being gay to have no spark of desire, but only other feelings like, in good times, kindness.
And writers can have their own secret reasons to include a repeated discussion about known symbols of well, … I am talking about oysters and eggplants.
OBS: I am of course not saying gays generally don’t have desire. Just not towards the opposite sex, obivously.
Thank you, @nerdy. I agree that his sexuality is not the central issue here. My centrally important point, and perhaps I should not have buried it in my “secondary gif” space, is that Jae-kyung’s self-loathing comes from his authentic lack of filial feelings towards his family. Like so:
@ceciliedk I don’t buy your argument here with the evidence that you’ve offered. I would be more than happy to read the full statement of what it is that you see in an essay on your Fan Wall!
Comment was deleted
@cecilieDK You can check your code before pasting it into Drambeans. Use this tool here: https://www.w3schools.com/html/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_basic
Type in the left all that you want to say (including all the image tags and other HTML), then click “Run.” The website will then render your text and code there in the right hand pane. If it works (aka you see the image you want), you’re done and you can copy-and-paste the text over here. If it doesn’t work, keep editing on the left, clicking run to see if your change fixed it.
Once it works in the W3 editor, it’ll work here (if you’re using the allowed tags, including “img”).
This will save you and your readers a lot of heartache!
So cool! Thank you!!!
It seems to only work half of the time, but here is the secretary advising Jae-kyung to date Hong-jo. And as he is thinking about it, his father calls.
Someone said his father is a grifter, and they are probably right; It seems like the father threatens to come to the city hall, and later JK has an argument about money, while he is moving in below HJ.
Now, yesterday, someone was talking about the very principled senior historian in ”Rookie Historian”, and how he looked immensely sad all the time. JKs sadness doesn’t quite reach that level, but he definitely has a constant aura of “autumn blues”, as the secretary calls it.
And he does seem to warm a bit to HJ – but he never looks like he desires her. And he seems so happy to thwart the hopes and schemes of Shin-yu. That’s when you see him smile the most, and certainly to have the most energy.
My best interpretation is that he can see himself living an OK life with HJ, because she is a kind and really likable person. He wouldn’t be lonely, and the risk of being outed would decrease significantly.
He is still a strange man; Seon-ha @attition talks about his lovely voice, and yes, it is lovely, but his melody when speaking is like an old AI. I just saw his scolding of Hong-jo’s two horrible colleagues, and it is like hearing a ten-year-old reading his homework aloud. One sentence at a time, no emotion, and you can hear the period.
Cecilie, I disagree that he never looks like he desires her–but much of that evidence comes from later on in the drama. My argument in this post is about the moments prior to him moving in downstairs from Hong-jo.
I would love to see the scenes you would marshal to support your position that he–as a naturally taciturn man–never shows recognizable desire on your Fan Wall. I don’t think you’re going to be able to do it, though!
Here’s my concluding original post for this argument, folks. After this, it’s all chat.
Here’s the moment when Jae-kyung realizes that he’s moved downstairs from a woman he cares deeply about but that he’s still had to muster the courage to push off twice because he felt compelled by external forces to do so. For my money, this face is, “Is this FATE?” Perhaps wishful thinking, but…
Here he is watching her then go up the stairs…utterly flummoxed about what’s happening to him.
And here he is, finally really smililng, accepting how much she cares, and how much he could care if he just let himself. We know he doesn’t do this “caring thing” very well…but that, here, is beside the point. Jae-kyung has feelings for Hong-jo prior to moving in downstairs to her, but he doesn’t really decide to proactively act on them until he does.
Goodness. What an epic gif-ssay. I am sold! What was the argument again? Doesn’t matter. I buy it. And I’ll take the bridge as well.
My takeaway is that I’m far more sympathetic toward Jae-kyung than before. And I want to watch the picnic scene again at a later point. And I say this as someone who 💯 cares only about Rowoon. Who is this hamster again? 😉
I love your back and forth with @cecilieDK I feel like I’m in a courtroom. You two are way more skilled than these two.
Ha, well, now I’m embarrassed. The argument was that Jae-kyung cares for Hong-Jo before he moves in downstairs, but his issue is “2ML Trauma Syndrome” about not knowing why people would care for him because he is unworthy of love—they just take him at face value.
Now, once he’s decided that he’s in it to win it…he becomes much more “typical male” (to borrow Tina Turner’s phrase), so don’t think I don’t see JK’s eventual flaws. But his voice, compared to Rowoon’s especially, melts my insides…particularly, ahem, when he’s angry. It’s a problem.
And you won me over with his trauma argument (tho you know how I feel about men and their trauma in dramaland). So job well done I say.
One of my secrets to enjoying DWY has been to watch it almost on mute. That way, I don’t hear the flatness in Rowoon’s voice and appreciate his “full body acting” instead. 😀 But I’ll turn up the volume next episodes. Tho then I’ll also hear Jo Boah whose cutesy-ness is also not working for me. Sigh. This show.
I can’t decide. He ruined it for me a bit when he initially talked to Hongjo about Shinyu and sounded all possessive – when he had no business to at all. But yes, the picnic scene was reeeeaaaallly cute! Seems like he read up “what cute things to do when you want to win her heart” guidelines on the Internet, and is trying everything on there, lol 😂
Totally sold on the fact he had feelings for her pre-move, superb argument @attention !!! I wasn’t convinced while watching, when Shinyu mentioned pretty early on how JK definitely had feelings for her – even before he blew it up big time. I didn’t see all indicators as well as you did! Ugh this show keeps getting better and worse at the same time, *love* it.
(Btw: Recaps are being dropped while I’m asleep usually, so I really appreciate the fan wall discussions. It’s easier to keep up here, while the recaps usually have 140+ comments (as it should) when I log in, lol.)
He still doesn’t listen to her, though. She is cold, and is not enjoying sitting there. But at this point I must admit I don’t think he ignores what she says because he wants to be mean. It is some kind of inability on his side.
Yep, he’s very clumsy in showing his affection! 😆
You’re more than welcome on the Fan Wall, @sonai!!!
As some background, I don’t, in general, have any problem with people “expressing possessiveness with words.” I have BIG problems with them expressing their possessiveness through actions that impede other people’s freedoms. So, here, I’m just natively not bothered–I can understand how others would differ, though!
Shin-yu has always been jealous of Jae-kyung (obvs), but the reverse only really takes hold after my argument here concludes, that is, after JK moves in below Hong-jo. Then Jae-kyung starts making normal “stay away from ‘my’ woman” behaviors like fawning over her in front of Shin-yu’s office door. Part of me feels that this ends up being a little petulant rather than authentic.
I’m still working on the gif-ssay (if I write it) about why Jae-kyung becomes so fond of Hong-jo. I suspect we haven’t seen the scenes we need to really interpret that plausibly yet…
Thank you! 😊
Yep, possibly the way the two male leads bicker over Hongjo is just to add a little more comedy into the mix (just like the chair kick and he whole scene before her apartment door), and thus this may feel inauthentic for his character… 🤔 I appreciate it though. Otherwise right now, the show would only leave us with the *angst*! 😅
I’ll make sure to have my popcorn ready for more posts! 😆
It occurs to me that if we are not supposed to have Jae-Kyung heartbroken and alone at the show’s end, assuming they are not making a bait and switch and pairing Hong-jo off with him, the way he will find his true love is when he tells one of his hermit jokes and that other person just bends over, trying to suppress all that laughter from how funny they think that joke is. That would be such an adorable meet-cute.
Oh yes, also looking forward to hear *why* he likes her at all! I somehow wish it was because he is also entangled into their past lives (historical love triangle ftw!), but looking at it right now it could just totally be that he likes her *because she likes him*. Not a good enough reason, Jaekyung! 😆
You know he acknowledges her as a good civil servant. She is also cheerful and kind. And being liked is not a bad reason to like someone else – if nobody ever fell for that there would be so many people all just hoping for a reciprocity they were unwilling to give a go themselves. He just has no desire for her.
Right now, I’m so pleased that Jae-kyung’s possible doppelganger has not appeared in the flashbacks…part of me hopes such a character never appears, but this is a pretty stupid hope to have, wouldn’t you say? Have I even seen a past-lives k-drama? 🙂
Creepy gardener also seems set to appear in Joseon… and he appears to remember quite a bit seeing that he’s trying to sever the leads’ destinies.
Agreed – creepy gardener will surely be there… And I’m anticipating a Jin Mu (AoS) like getup for him! 😬
I could live with seeing Jaekyung wearing traditional attire though. 👀 Oh gawd, there will be so much heartbreak in the past. Considering the love triangle and the “military career” of Shinyu’s past self.
Thank you for the gif-ssay.
Very engrossing read with compelling averments substantiated with (Moving) pictures that speak a thousand words. Very well done indeed! A huge round of applause – standing ovation.
🧍♂️ 🧍♀️ 👏 👏 👏 👏 🧍♂️ 🧍♀️
Just cannot imagine the kind of effort and time you spent on it. Indy has expressed my feelings exactly. You and cecilie are extremely skilled at this back and forth. I felt like a tennis ball bouncing between you two!
Such in-depth analysis … why do I feel Rowoon and Ha Joon would do an even better job if they got directions from you.
Your character analysis of Jae-kyung, his motivations, his hesitation and the exact moment of the little crack in his life-long determination to stay away from all or any work related matters and zero personal involvement with anybody seems to have been pinpointed by you so accurately.
I am always amazed by the micro-expressions of Korean actors and the gifs highlight them so well.
Thank you very much! Though @attiton is the better essayist, I feel that 1) there are important points missing and 2) it is just more interesting with opinions of more than one person.
And Jae-kyung might end up, as so often in K-dramas, to be trivialised into something very simple, but as it is, he seems to be horrible, kind, manipulating, socially awkward, humanly sad and at the same time uncanny in his expression.
What I mean is: It just takes a lot of gifs and words to describe well! Work laid out for a whole team of giffers bringing each their stack of opinions to the table.
Your opinions and the way you use language is very engaging … I really appreciate your comments. The perfect seasoning to Seon-ha’s gifs.
[Jae-kyung] seems to be horrible, kind, manipulating, socially awkward, humanly sad and at the same time uncanny in his expression.
Here, Cecilie, I am in 100% agreement. This is incredibly well-said.
Loved your essay. I was actually on the SML ship before dropping the show. It does feel like the writers wrote a very complex character that would be a lot more interesting to watch than the cool rich ML whose only agenda is having a girlfriend. Then, deciding that nope, can’t allow that, the writers gave JK some simply bad character moments that don’t fit with everything we have seen of him so far.
Actually, the one point I would add to your great essay is that from JK’s perspective accepting HJ’s feelings and dating her would have been akin to conning her. She likes the cool kind guy, what she would get if they date is the socially awkward dude who has very complicated feelings about his family.
By not making JK the main love interest, the show is kinda proving his point, that he is not likable beyond shallow infatuation.
First of all, I’m so happy to be the source of all, best information about DWY for those who have dropped the show (right @hopefulromantic 😉)!! Seriously. Please come for the gifs and stay for the conversation.
I absolutely, totally, completely agree with your note that he’d feel like he was “conning” Hong-jo by accepting her feelings. That’s exactly the model I was trying (relatively unsuccessfully, I might add) to express above. Thank you for adding this to the conversation.
I have one more post on these two men in my mind. I’ll probably post it in an hour or two. I’m not sure there really is a sizeable choice between the two men….I’d love to hear what you think about it!
Would love to read more of your opinions @attiton !
I am currently watching the Live Your Own Life and deluding myself into thinking it is the same character getting the girl (side note: that show is dumb and everyone excluding the leads is annoying. Watch only if you plan to fast forward most of it).
I posted it, but it’s so far down on the Fan Wall now–curses popular site!!!–that it’s completely buried. Here ya go, though!
YES!!! I love reading your analysis posts, and your squeeing posts, and your awesome gifs!!! A+ work!!👍👍
You’re the best, Hopeful. By the way, you made the right choice re: Moving (not that you were at ALL concerned). From the last three episodes, I swear that I only could stomach 15-20m of the 1h15m offered.
It was OUTRAGEOUSLY violent, even compared to the Frank episodes.
Frank, by the way, NEVER came back. There’s clearly a season two in the works. I’m pretty sure I’m not in. They could suck me in, but I should really just learn to resist.
I cried copious tears of horrible empathy for much of those 15 minutes I could watch. It was worse that the worse-est tragedy I’ve ever seen. Ugh.
@attiton Oh my gosh I felt stressed just reading your description of watching those last episodes!! I do appreciate the update since you know my drama tastes, because I had been wondering if I could come back to the drama with a finger hovering over the FF button. But now I know ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
I just wanna say…I’m at minute 15. If DWY ended right now…I’d be completely satisfied. I’d just end it in my mind the way I want. PLEASE SHOW. I’m going to un-pause now. Don’t throw this away.
Is this the fan wall discussion space? Because, oh god. I found a spot with a decent signal…and what a mess. What a glorious soapy mess! But at least they finally made some bloody progress. And related, it’s baaaaack!
OK. Won’t spoil anything by saying more.
**FUCKING SQUEE** YES THIS IS THE DISCUSSION SPACE
I’m telling you. This show could/should end right now…I’m actually tearing up from fear.
LOL. No way! I wanna know what happens next. I had no idea this is actually an old-school melodrama, almost makjangy, writing, production, music, acting everything. It’s bad. And I can’t wait for #11. 😂😂😂
It’s NOT bad. It’s soooooooooooooooooo gooooooood.
ALL the FEELZ ALL the CAPS. GAWD.
Her little makjang fight over Hong-jo sequence.
The stupid freezing cold picnic.
Jae-kyung’s angry voice. **ugh I’m a goner**
Ah my screen garbled at that picnic. And I had to race to finish before the mosquitoes ate me alive. I’ll try again later, or recaps.
If by it’s not bad, it’s good you mean it’s so bad it’s good, I’m with ya! (But really, I’m only with Rowoon. His fingers were especially, deliciously scarecrowey.)
Oh, this episode is rewatch central, so I hope you can do so without the actual mosquitoes.
DID YOU SEE ALL THE GLORIOUS GIFS GO BY, ’cause I did…
@indyfan And yes, I mean so “bad” it’s good, but actually I don’t think it’s that bad–I’ve got it in my mind now steadfastly in the genre of making even the audience feel these OTT feelings, without much need to have anyone behave any other rational way than something juuuuuust shy of “KELP SLAP.”
For what it’s worth, I enjoyed the nod to What’s Wrong With Secretary Kim: kiss scene interrupted by pushing her away on an office chair. Classic!
So, from what you have found out, we don’t necessarily have to cringe till our soles bleed (yes, in Denmark, the expression is “to curl your toes”, or that something is “toe-curling”) every time “pure” or “purity” is mentioned. We are not in a virginity cult, they are both just asking for the other one to be fully committed.
It’s with the fascination of doom I’m watching this, and will keep on watching. We deserve answers! And *decent* kiss scenes. 🤣 It’s like the show makers are mocking us at this point.
Ugh that purity talk. And I didn’t have a drink yet.
Ha. Purity. To me, they’re thinking like little kids…but then behaving as they like. So, yeah, while I’d like another word (I’ll probably go find out what it really is in Korean), I just imagine it that they’re really scared that the other person is going to abandon them.
Squee. So much better than when they finally get together. The tension is so f’in delightful to me.
What was even that? Is it a translation issue? Culturally specific? Ugh. And why do we another cute 30-something woman who’s never dated but now has two gorgeous men fighting over her? And why is she so proud she’s “pure”? Ugh again.
Yet, I will keep watching. Oh yeah. Damn that ending.
It was ODD! Sure, I get the meaning that “we are special to each other, others don’t matter, I’m playing the past lives card!”. But delivered like that it is icky on so many levels.
* Him asking *her* for purity. (HIM. lol)
* Asking for “purity” at all if you have not come to an agreement whatsoever. What is the justification for any expectation to the other party?
* Common sense. 🙄
But what you said reminds me of something the teenage daughter of a friend told me, when we were talking about kdramas (as you do): “They are all grown ups, but acting like 12-year-olds.” I get it, I get it… it’s the charm and the crux at the same time, lol.
OK. One thing I’ll give you–putting my totally desperately, inescapably, SPELLBOUND, loving fangirl heart aside–it’s annoying that he’s moved from “it’s a spell” to “it’s fated from a past life.”
It’s like when he decided it was that neural bullshit.
I’m ignoring it, because I’m hoping that the show will move on from it and that the whole thing is going to be a journey of discovery for everyone–here Shin-yu–into taking personal responsibility for their decisions.
The shaman could have foreshadowed this a bit when she warned Shin-yu to behave without regret.
Obsessed fangirling will now resume.
I feel like Goblin’s bride – wanting drama characters to – Ppoppo Ppoppo Ppoppo
I imagine this “pure” means something more like “free of other love obligations” more like “sober”, but with love stories.
@attiton when you find out, please tag me, I want to know.
OK purity talk time
“정갈해진 상태로” is the phrase Shin-yu uses when we first see “purity” in the subtitles. I gather that it could just as well mean “in a clean state” or “in a neat state” or “in a tidy state.”
So…I may or may not have the energy to go check this–I can only keep so much in my head right now–but this is probably the same word used in the spell book to talk about how Hong-jo (and any other participant) needs to be dressed, right?? Remember how she has to be clean and dressed neatly?
If anyone else wants to go check this–@elinor if you’re watching and care to do this, it’s the sort of thing you and I “like” to (obsessively) do!!–I’d love to know.
If I end up in episode 2 or 3 again (god help me), I’ll try to remember to look.
@indyfan @sonai @ceciliedk
@attiton OK I’m glad it wasn’t “pure” because that carries too much baggage. But I feel no wiser as to what this alternative translation means in the context of their conversation. I don’t think it’s about clothes and cleanliness…
@indyfan Well, for myself, I’m no happier or sadder than using the word “pure.” Ya know how this culture is pretty obessed with being showered/clean/neat/tidy before having sex? There’s a connection here, I’m sure.
In some show, there was a reason given for this. It’s some sort of written (religious? royal?) tradition what constitutes “appropriate sexual relations.”
I don’t think that any of this really ever had to do with “virginity” or that type of purity. I always connected it to what it means to have culturally-meaningful (sexual) relationships, frankly.
If I’m right, and the same word is used in the spellbook, then (gasp! and alarm!) this whole time, we’ve been talking about sex.
Late to the party – I just finished ep. 10. I’m failing to find a single English word that fully captures what’s been translated as “pure” or “purity.” I agree that it doesn’t correspond to either virginity or the current, mostly American religious fetishization of sexual purity (shudder) so I’m trying to drive that association out of my head. The best I can do is that it’s the opposite of messy. So, it’s a situation that’s neat and tidy, in good order, squared away, no loose ends, clean – not just in the physical cleanliness sense, but also like having made a clean break. When Shin-yu says to Hong-jo that he’s “doing this” (the failed attempt at a rolling-chair kiss) because he’s not pure, he’s saying he’s still a mess.
I used to do a bit of translation (French to English) for a technical journal and it’s that stubborn idiomatic 5% of a text that takes 95% of the effort!
@ceciliedk @attiton @indyfan @sonai
@elinor Ah, making a clean break. That makes so much more sense. Thank you.
If you or @attiton are up for it, I think it would be good to share on the recap. This post is hard to find, and I see others were put off by the Netflix translation as well.
@indyfan Will do.
@attiton @elinor Thanks for getting back on this in such thorough detail! I much prefer how you’ve explained it. The word „pure“ is really heavily loaded, and I was getting a tad annoyed by it. Good idea about the subtitles though, I’ll go back and check what they say in my native language, maybe that was translated a bit more nuanced (I usually pick English by default because subtitles in my language sometimes feel like they were a direct translation of the English subs instead of the spoken Korean, if that makes sense? English is usually clearer, but maybe not in this case…) 🤔
The Danish subtitles definitely are translations of the English ones. (Or, I haven’t checked out with this particular drama, but – it’s definitely a K-drama-netflix-practice). Sometimes you can see they have chosen the wrong meaning of an English word.
Just for completeness: subs in my language actually say something like „respectably“, „fair“ (and „square“) 🧐 There is no „purity“ indication as in the „puritanical“ (I.e. much stricter) sense, so to speak… but it’s a fine line after all. 🤔
@ceciliedk exactly! Sometimes I even feel like they literally translate English puns (when they don’t know it is one?! Inexplicable otherwise.), which then become devoid of all meaning, and only leave you confused. It’s maddening! But sometimes there’s a difference between translations. But that might actually only apply to shows not produced and translated by Netflix itself, now that you mention it. 😅 Must learn Korean after all… 😆
(subtitles) That’s why I only use the Danish subtitles when they start speaking English and the English subtitles disappear. Because I rarely get what they are saying even if I listen to it loudly, and often, I ‘ve got the sound on very low.
I’m serious y’all…my heart was racing throughout episode 10 and I LOVED THE FEELING. I kept thinking, WHAT, WHAT, WHAAAAAT?? And actually squealed aloud IN MY OFFICE. Yes, that’s right, I’m at work. I’m not doing work. I’m watching DWY.
@indyfan, you may not have internet, but apparently, like Shin-freaking-yu, I HAVE NO SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY. I’ve lost it in the face of this show.
And there I was. On the rooftop holding my phone high for the best signal. Darkness and crickets all around. And me, bathed in my phone light and screaming. What on earth show? What? No, you didn’t. Whaaaat?
I swear I don’t get this excited for good shows. It’s addictive shit. But I better get to bed. Over to you day timers. Keep the fun going.
Good night, Indy! Look forward to the 10,000,000 notifications, mentions and replies in the AM!
oh, hey….. @hopefulromantic … IS THIS POST AND ITS REPLIES WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, your base, deploooooorable drama voyeurism is being satisfied by our squee-ing, I do believe 😉
YES IT WAS 😆 Here’s me right now:
I’m still open to being swayed by the drama (and you all) into finishing it – eventually!
Nooooo… @hopefulromantic You can only watch it live with Beanies. On your own, you may look for plot, logic, meaning, character and stuff like that. With us, you’ll say what the heck is that and have a riot. 😀
I see you, @indyfan!
F that, I even went through the “does it work” page, thrice.
LOL. That was perfect! Thank you. 🤗
(OK I was not so sexily dressed but it’s cool if that’s the image I portrayed. 😂)
More purity talk. Sleepless here, so did the thing. I went back to episode 2 when Hong-jo reads the Love Spell out loud. Same verb (정갈하다) used for how she must behave/be dressed.
@dncingemma @elinor @indyfan @sonai @cecilieDK
So proper and neat would cover that so still makes sense.
Yeah, my “argument” such as it is at this point goes something like this: The show, in its own way is about where “proper behavior” comes from, or “what it feels like to be a mess,” or “we all want to be pure and proper, but that’s not what it’s actually like,” or “you make yourself all proper for a ritual so that everything ‘works’ but that’s not actually ‘how things work.'”
Something like that. And this verb matters to me insofar as it’s in the spell, and also what Shin-yu (and Hong-jo for her part…and Jae-kyung in spirit) wants to be like. But he keeps saying, “I’m a mess.” I should check that verb too…when he says that to the shaman.
No, I’m not joking, I’ve seen each episode at least three times each now, giffing a lot of it, so spending a long time on certain scenes. Sad, but true.
OKOK I’ll go back and lie in bed. But here’s Shin-yu’s line about the anti-“pure” state he’s in: 지금은 제가 지저분하다고요
Good! Please count whatever you enjoy in your head to see if you may fall asleep. And, he is a (sweet) messy person for sure.
Thank you so much. And I hope you enden up getting some sleep, too.
@dncingemma Here is a still and a gif of two times that Rowoon is clearly crouching, bending his knees, manner-legs-spreading, or otherwise making himself shorter so he doesn’t have to bend over to hug (or flipping BE IN THE SAME SHOT WITH) Jo Boa. 🙂
First, right there on the bridge.
Here, so funny, you can see how bent his knees are at the beginning.
@indyfan @elinor if you know of other good ones, I’m happy to document.
Thanks so much! I wish they would include a full length manner legs scene (or three). Btw, despite my request I much rather you sleep rather than making these gifs. Try and catch some zzzzzzz.
Oh, that ship has sailed. Thanks for worrying about me, though. My cat’s here keeping me company.
I know but still… I have insomnia too so I empathise.
Yes! I wish I could repay you in zzz’s.
I love that kabedon, though! It only makes it better that he is somehow running with his knees bent and then SLAM!
Yowza! I don’t recall any such scenes. I’m too busy gawking at his face. (Have I mentioned that before maybe?) But that last gif. Phew. Where the did all the fun and sexiness go??? 😩
I really should introduce my partner to manner legs concept. He does it instinctively sometimes. I had no idea there was a name for it till you all introduced the concept to me a few MoonBeans ago.
This gesture, right, @bbstl? My heart actually skipped a beat for a moment, thinking that they might be kick-starting a relationship right here.
It seems I wasn’t the only one who thought there was something there 👀
But immediately I ruled out the possibility. It was simply camaraderie.
The show ruled it out. There’s no real reason it had to…and then it doubled-down on the baker’s distress with even more (reality show) humiliation. FEH! FIE! BOO. 👿
I liked the baker since the moment he offered a croissant to a taxi driver XD
And how cool it was when he was wearing traditional Joseon clothes in the retro festival.
Poor boy, he deserved a better ending, instead of going to reality shows.
OMG I had forgotten about his Joseon attire. That character (So Bo-Ro) was the bomb.
Remember how Baker So always believed Do-ha as well when no one else in the community did??
Remember how horribly upset he was when the bug was found in his food? He has such high standards for his art.
You know what I say to the show and its crappy treatment of this amazing character (that THEY set up themselves!)???
I had to FF that scene of the annoying couple who had schemed against the baker 🙈
That’s what I mean when I say this drama was a mess with so many unnecesary sub-plots.
And yes, the show neglected Baker So (and Kang-min) on purpose.
I definitely thought so too! But alas!
I wonder if those actors did that on purpose, because they, too, were irritated with the way the show ended up. If so, I’d say, “Thanks, guys, it may have been a false hope, but we saw it!!!”
I mean what a strong plot line it might have been to parallel the (all-too-often) difficult process of coming out with the desire to life a life of your own truth, without lies. Grr.
*live a life
Dear lord but my typing has been horrible this morning. Sorry, Beanies!
I thought this was where they were going also! I was like “Yay! There is another gay character besides the one you made a murderer!” But then, foiled. It was a short-lived hope, but it burned so brightly.
@darkcc If you need another place to rant, this thread has done a bit. I’m sure you’ll also post to the main weecap thread, but I wanted to call you over here too.
Also, I hear you about the food…it’s just that I worry when “crusts of bread” are mentioned.
Also, also, can I get a little love for “Stand-왜” as a rhyming parallel to “Standby?” Yeah, I’m that needy for praise…but it made me laugh so hard when I thought it.
I have not stopped smiling since I read Stand-왜 🙂
잘 했어요 (honorific obliged as you’re my Dramabeans seonbaenim)
👏👏👏 I’m so happy!!!! 🤩🤩🤩
I know honorifics are obligatory in this sitch, but my actual behavior undermines my ability to actually deserve them. 😁
I think sharing these 2 K-restaurants in Helsinki instantly grants you double honorific rights!
Yes! Thanks for capturing this moment! And what was Young Jae doing under the table, anyway?
In the face of this horrible treatment, he was tenderly touching Baker So’s knee in support, IMO, because they’d already spent time together discussing how important they are to one another.
Yep, that’s my story too and I’m sticking to it. It’s another show, how Baker So has to be dragged through the awfulness of the reality show until finally, triumphantly going public with his actual relationship with a young up-and-coming composer! And then, HEA 😍
My Lovely Baker?
I’m down for this new plot and this hilarious title (Do translators only have one adjective available to them these days?)
**chants**HEA🤩…HEA🤩…HEA🤩**ends chant out loud (never in my heart)**
In view of the next scenes, he was supporting Baker So for not having a girlfriend yet. He was being emphatic.
Is that why Baker So’s body language was also leaning in towards him for protection after the intimate touch???? 😉
You are better at reading micro-gestures than me 😅
That was very fast and then the show went other way so… I didn’t overthink more about it 😶
This post is entitled Get a man who looks at you like Min Woo-won looks at Goo Hae-ryung, or the Origin Story of Seon-ha’s 2ML problem.
I’m still working up a much longer post on 우리 2ML, Kwon Jae-kyung, from Destined with You, which I think had better wait until after tomorrow’s episode (if the trailer is to be believed). Besides, I’m not, ahem, finished. It’s turning out to be difficult and a little emotionally taxing (왜?? 🤷).
But, as I was making the needed gifs for my Jae-kyung post today (totally not during working hours), I kept remembering the above scene from Rookie Historian. Partially it was because Cha Eun-woo is in a show coming up, so I was thinking about how much I did actually love his dithering, ditzy prince in this drama. Maybe he wasn’t actually acting, or maybe he was…either way his character was hilarious and sexy in equal parts.
However (하지만), I was mainly thinking of this particular scene, I think, because it was the first time I ever felt my version of “Second Lead Syndrome (SLS).” I may be fooling myself, but I don’t think I get traditional SLS, the condition where the viewer ends up wanting the FL to connect up with the 2ML rather than the ML.
That’s not really my experience of “Seon-ha’s SLS” (SHSLS): I don’t want the 2ML to connect up with the FL, I always invariably want someone/something better than the FL for him.
Sometimes, um, I want that better person to be, um, me. But other times, I just think that our 2ML’s character is simply too good for the position in which he’s found himself enmeshed. I mean, oftentimes, it’d be “just fine” if he ended up with the FL, but if she doesn’t really want him as a primary object of interest–I certainly don’t want him to play the “also-ran” for the rest of their lives. (Clearly, that wouldn’t always happen in real life, and plenty of people deserve second chance [AHEM Lee Kang-min in MLL]…but still. This is my syndrome so I get to define it. 🙌
So, back to the point of this post, which was supposed to be *short*, I was desperately taken by Min Woo-won in Rookie Historian as a character. Is he even the 2ML at all? No? Yes? I mean there was never any chance that he’d end up with Hae-ryung–from really either point-of-view. However, he did show his appropriate affection for Hae-ryung in the form of a desire to protect her and her particular needs, and her particular position, in the scene above.
In the next moment after that he wraps her hand with a bandage, in a gesture that’s all tenderness.
The words he’s saying here are, “I’m sorry (미안하다),” but I didn’t want the subtitles messing up the screen. I melted when I first saw this, and still do. I just want to watch him say sorry and dry her hand.
He never crosses the line, IMO (others might disagree), and she too keeps her boundaries strictly. But, in this gesture and in his series-long behaviors–damn! Does he have rock-solid principles, (relatively) well-balanced pride, (money!!) and, to top things off, excellent skills as a historian. He’s my guy.
The conclusion of his story in this drama is optimistic enough, after a long period, of course, of sadness. Hae-ryung and the ditzy prince (rose in mouth) can have raucous sex in her tiny room all they like. I’m still thinking about how I want only the best, most fulfilled, happiest life for Min Woo-won.
He also looks really, really hot when sacrificing himself for others (*cough* including/especially Hae-ryung *end cough*).
Great post, Seon-ha!!😊👍
Thanks tons, Hopeful. Glad you enjoyed it. Were you persuaded that SHSLS is a thing, tho?? 😏
Yes absolutely! You made a very strong case for SHSLS. I really like the distinction you made, because within the narrative structure of a drama, I don’t want the SML and FL to be the endgame (maybe there’s an exception to this, but I can’t think of one now). BUT, there are sometimes really awesome, lovely, etc. etc. SMLs and I just want them to be HAPPY, and occasionally, to be liberated from the quagmire of the rest of the drama. I looked through my drama archive list, and Romance is a Bonus Book and Clean With Passion for Now are the two strongest occurrences of SLS I’ve had, but that’s also mostly related to my actor preferences… The drama you’re referencing here is a perfect case study for SHSLS!!
I had to drop Clean with Passion for Now because I could see I was supposed to swoon over that terrible guy who kept treating her SO terrible, and he didn’t even have the charm and good looks to make you understand why someone would fall for him anyway.
And then there was this good-looking, super cool, relaxed, non-bragging, friendly, intelligent apparently even wealthy on top of all that guy who was going from quietly comforting her and being there for her and to offer his love, if she would take it … why oh why would whe end up with the ML, then?
There was a SL in RHGHRyeong???
Bro, I’m seriously considering there’s something wrong with my memory. 😂🥺
I remember loving the show and our FL, but feeling uncomfortable with EW’s acting, even tho I liked his character.
But I don’t remember a love triangle. Selective amnesia?? LMAO
No, no love triangle. That’s partially my point. Min Woo-won was definitely a male lead, probably by default called the 2ML as there was both the Crown Prince and the Ditzy Prince with larger (?) roles…
I’m talking about something a bit less scripted and more, say, character-forward about how he cares for Hae-ryung.
It can be summarized more briefly like: I liked him the best of all the male characters in the show.
AND YES, for those reading and know me, I’m even looking past the fact that LEE JEONG-HA has a small role in this thing 😂
Yes, I think I get what you mean.
It wasn’t a love game or something like that, it was about a guy genuinely caring for the FL in a very human way? like having a natural connection.
He didn’t feel like a plot device but like a real character.
That’s nice! ☺️
I feel like I have to rewatch the show, hahaha, I really remember nothing.
As for your other point, in going through and finding these images—I was reminded that it’s a pretty gosh-darned good fusion sageuk. I might join you in a rewatch!
If I rewatch it and notice any other cute scene of your boy, I’ll let you know!
It is a really good fusion sageuk! It was actually my first sageuk, and it was the perfect starter I think!
Rookie Historian was my first sageuk and that’s why it’s especially dear to me. And it was among my first k-dramas, so there I met many famous faces.
The OST is beautiful, btw.
I also think he had a thing for her, but he wasn’t the type to throw himself into a competition or showing off … and also, he was so disappointed with life that he probably also was very careful of burdening anyone else, least of all an exceptionally lovely young historian and woman – with his sadness. If it would have been, it would have been slowly, bit by bit and via the good, principled, and professionally deeply respected colleague road to love, not the flowers and teasings way.
And, as he saw things going another way, he was not one to [tentative hand up]: “But … me?”
He would just take that half step back into his only-just-stay-alive-after-deep-sorrow snailhouse.
His character sounds interesting.
I really need to rewatch the show.
I myself just did.
Nota Bene: Anything about loving our Goo that I said came from his sad eyes shifting a little bit, or not lifting at a certain moment. And sometimes looking a little bit less sad, but not as crazy as to smile to her or things like that.
The only time I remember seeing him smiling, I think, was when at some point the historians rebelled. That somebody other than himself energetically stood up for the principles of exposing the conscience or lack thereof of power to the eyes of centuries to come.
And I think he just like, out of the side of his eyes, at some point noted that this rookie historian was into someone. And his eyes bravely and silently said: “Noted.”
I see you have it as bad for him as I do, Cecilie.
I have had many times your kind of SMLS. It’s when I support (sometimes not strongly) the main couple but I wish the best for the SL, and that happens a lot in Dramaland.
I wish SL to be happy and find love and success elsewhere.
The typical SLS, wanting FL and SL end together… that’s something I have had very few times (maybe I have not watched the dramas that trigger strong SLS yet).
Like, My Love from the Star. There’s a really nice guy who totally deserves to be shmooshy-loved by someone who is not after his money.
While in Jealousy Incarnate, I want the FL to take that nice, hot guy who does not degrade her all the f***king time!
Or (Jealousy Incarnate) live with both guys. That would be special!
In MLFTS it’s just that the FL has never been into him even the slightest bit, so really, he should find someone else to spoil with his kindness.
I am still upset that Historian Min did not end up with the FL. Who cares about the ditzy Prince? Not me, for sure. Now, the Crown Prince is another story. And he did not end up with the other female historian…Not really a happy ending. At least nobody died…..
Workplace romances are so hard, though, you know? 😉
As for the Crown Prince and his forever forbidden love, crushing sadness.
I don’t like workplace romances at all, but I love sageuks. I did like Rookie Historian because of the unusual story. Still, the writing could have been better, but that’s when fan fiction comes in handy.
I was not personally falling for the smooth prince, but I loved him. When it became clear that he had, so to speak, been grown like a bonsai, nipped and clipped so as to not grow to more than an indoor ornament, his story too became heart-breaking. (as I noted here: https://www.dramabeans.com/members/CecilieDK/activity/1449000/ )
Furthermore, he looks unbelievably much like a dear friend, who is a woman, and a singer. It’s her face, her elegant and cheerful ambience (she does not have a palace and three servants, so … a little less ethereal than him). So he gained from that, and from being sweet and super non-toxic.
He is so lovely and fills also my heart with love and pain … not exactly swooning, but just … there is a story there, all the time, and you never doubt that even if you don’t hear about for … what is it, like ten episodes or something?
For @cecilieDK, and anyone else who wants to play. Here’s the gif alone–have fun!!
Hey Seon-ha, It’s Okay to not be okay during the outage. We all knew that Someday or Oneday that Dramabeans would come back. I know you felt Lost during that time but we knew that this site would be back up Tomorrow. It was only One Day Off. I hope you found Happiness now that Dramabeans is up and running again
How delightful, @lostpanda!!! I love it…and I definitely feel better having read it 😉
Beansprout🌱 award for creativity whilst supporting another beanie😊
The outage was saaaaad!
Now I just need to know how to make the gif’s appear bigger on the page?
Beanstalk🌾 award for beyond the call of duty community service to all gif loving beanies needing to find a way to deal with their distress👏
Oh, if there’s one thing we’ve learned…I’m more like Hong-Jo than most imagine. Any small act of kindness and I give you whatever you ask. And if you’re not nice to me, well, I guess I steal your boyfriend?? 🙃
I have posted an inappropriate word. But what word it was, I don’t know. Maybe that word people say when they claim to have first right to something.
I share this sentiment. It was hard. HARD.
No, seriously, it was damn hard.
But now, if I’ve also put you in the mood to hear that song: https://youtu.be/lrDeQ4sF0zo 🤙
Going to go work now, but this one fantasy of Hong-jo’s may not have stuck long in our memories…but something tells me it will now. This one goes out to @lapislazulii.
(No more, suprisingly, in the comments–I’m working up something a little longer on “early” Jae-kyung for @cecilieDK.)
PS: Dramabeans, don’t disappear while I’m gone, 거래?
The best thing to wake up to omg, you are quite simply The Best Seon-ha! 😍 This GIF is cute and dreamy, it’s definitely living rent free in my head no for the foreseeable future – idk what’s cuter, the pupper or Jae-kyung (answer: both). Hope work is going well for you rn, I’ll be using this GIF to gain energy 💪 through my work day now.
I am ensconced in my evening drama-watching position now…one of my favorite places, with my CAT, yes CAT, by my side. I made an exception for this dog on my Fan Wall because of the man holding it 😇
I know I know, these are fighting words, but the way I see it…more dogs for y’all!!!
I am a cat person too!! But dogs are cute (from a distance, I don’t think I’d be able to keep up with the energy and everything if I lived with one).
Good news is, cat people know there’s no use in fighting over who gets the cats…because cats pick people, not the other way around 😉
Coming back to this character after a week away from Moving, thinking about what I’ve seen before…I mean just the grey stubble. *ahem* gawks *clears throat*
I mean, could these two protect me too???? Mom? Dad? Please help. I need help.
He is amazing
Y’all? I was joking around with @lostpanda and @emsel on last week’s Open Thread earlier today about Roswooning and DB-addiction…and then the site went down.
I truly might have needed today’s outage(s) reset some of my priorities. I had to do some serious introspection 😂 🥲
How did you all cope/are you coping? I don’t think it’s over!
Seems fine now. I’m glad I slept thru all that. The site has already triggered some abandonment issues in me.
@indyfan!!!!! It was horrible…no warning, right in the middle of the workday. I had to go for a walk and calm down, I’m not even joking. Then it’d be back and gone and back and gone.
No warning. No nothing. I about emailed Reply.
That’s trauma right there. But I see you have bounced back. Can I just say, MAD respect at your engagement. Just look at all the convos you are having.
@indyfan Helllooooooo!!! *tears of happy joy that you’ve talked to me directly*
Don’t respect me. Think of me like this:
Your meme game is also 😂 😂 😂
I would think of us as your harem tho. All gender ofc.
I always enjoy reading your comments and your gif game.
We are slowly getting back to normal as I had lost my profile picture and display page when I finally got back on the site about an hour ago and now that’s back again. The wait for pages to load is still ongoing for me though. It’s good to be back, makes me laugh I can’t even like a comment without the wheel of doom showing and people are uploading to their fan walls and writing essays!
While it was all gone, I kept thinking…@reply1988 is the hub for all of us. How many will descend upon her by email or WhatsApp (for the lucky) if this site really goes away…and how is she going to respond????
It’s true the Watch and Discuss KDrama Club What’sapp was on fire and had us all checking from our international locations and time zones because I was convinced it was my rubbish internet so I felt vindicated when they confirmed the same issues.
It was a very timely wake up call after reading the last post from Javabeans and the comments from the old faithful on the meaning of DB for each of the Beanies. I was thinking how bad it would be if we lost contact with all those we only see on DB. Its been so much fun sharing in the comments and fan walls that I just can’t imagine losing those connections. The daily laugh out loud moments and those when I am in awe of the great insights shared by the amazing beanies would be greatly missed.
Beansprout🌱 for DB Wooga squad duties by providing a safe space for beanies to have a group session to offload re the emotional impact of experiencing a glimpse of life without DB.
Thanks for the thanks, as always @reply1988. You really were about to get an email from me 🙂
😲 desperate times calls for desperate measures!
I think I’m addicted to DB because I had a hard time trying to log in multiple times last night before bedtime. I just finished MLL ep15, so some might understand what this obsession to post something about that is coming from.
As Indyfan said, I am glad I slept through perhaps most of it.
OMG. I decided to watch MLL as a “distraction.” MISTAKE. Blech. I’m glad you got to rest through the *heaving sobs* thought *wail* of having *cough wheeze* to get an actual life again.
LOL. MLL has sadly taken a very strange turn. It turned itself from a potential shiny gem into a rock.
But I still like the OTP! They are cute together. In fact, I can still watch them being cute and smitten with one another for some more time.
But I don’t need more denouement material like Do-ha’s mother apologizing!!! Just end it already.
I’m a BIG wet blanket. My apologies. The way they just shoved that whole “who did it and why” into a corner really has my blood boiling.
It really felt that PPL and tie up lose ends of characters NO ONE cared about were the main focus for the last episode especially.
It triggered memories of the day DramaFever (RIP) just went down, poof! Dramabeans, please don’t just ever stop on us without warning 🙏🏼
Should we have an em-erg-ency DB backup system? An actual Bean-signal in the sky? I know that some (like Mindy) are on Reddit, and lots of others are on MDL…but there’s nothing like Dramabeans, IMO…
Part “is this still 2002?” Part “talking about thoughtful longer-form essays is better than just chatting about topics,” I’d truly be crushed if DB went away without warning.
I took a peek at MDL the other day and I think I sustained brain damage. Trying to find actual worthwhile commentary there requires digging through the most inane stuff. It’s almost as bad as the app formerly known as Twitter.
DB really is irreplaceable. Reddit is the best backup I’ve found, but the nature of the platform makes it feel less personal. But you’re more likely to get people with actual well thought out posts than you are anywhere that isn’t here. Reddit’s the closest thing we have left to forums so I guess that’s why.
I think a big problem of modern-day internet for me is that everything is intended to be so shallow and moves so fast. There are apps that I like but I don’t think are good for actual discussion (like Discord). I really miss the days of blogs and forums where people seemed to make more of an effort at communicating and not just letting tempers fly and intentionally misunderstanding people and posting “show bad. show good.”. DB is like a final stronghold for this type of website.
100% agreed, Mindy.
I agree with you. There is nothing like DB for kdramas. And there’s nowhere else I have interest in engaging.
I don’t know Reddit but could we carve a DB space? Like a bunker, just in case?
Oooo, we totally could make an unofficial Dramabeans subreddit, actually. 🧐
Ooh, ooh. Do share. I know the book club has led to some contacts being shared, but that’s such a minuscule number and not everyone is comfortable.
well timed honestly, I was sick over the weekend/monday and then had a FULL to-do list at work today so outage meant I was forced to focus on work for once 😂
SICK!!! Oh no!!! I am glad you seem to be better. Here’s a DWY-a-thon for you that happened while you were away: https://www.dramabeans.com/activity/p/1454968/. No comments from Lapis means it’s not complete.
time to catch up now!! 🥰
Hope you’re feeling better Lapis!
I am now, thank you Indy!! 💜
Feel better soon!!!!❤️
thank youuu ❤️
I went back to my other coping mechanism which is to watch Kdramas😂😂😂 I alternate between these two at this point in my life.
Yeah, well, I chose poorly on that front: MLL episode 15. It distracted me from NONE of my pain, and only added to it…
Once @missvictrix posted the reason for the outage and that reason wasn’t infrastructure DB itself was responsible for, I calmed down a bit.
And watched the glory that was Moving episode 16. That helped.
It’s back!! Yay!! I was like this most of yesterday trying to get the site to load: 😱😱😱
Hi, @hopefulromantic!!! It was so traumatic. In fact, it was so traumatic—I wasn’t joking—I had to do some serious introspection about my attachment here.
I took a moment to make a schedule of watching (again, not joking), making sure to slot in Mad Dog AND Parallel Worlds (see, @indyfan !!), while noting when things are ending—freeing up time—and when other shows like Twinkling Watermelon are gonna start…serious distraction techniques.
Parallel Worlds BTW will need to wait until I gather the strength to finish Moving, but then it’s totally next. @indyfan, what was it that you were saying about a “hiatus?” By when should I have caught up??
HAHAHA 😭 I also had to do some reflection, because I felt bereft. And I’ve only been here since May! And then I thought, what’s our fire drill protocol for this situation?? Do we all meet up on MDL??? I’m really glad the site’s back again!
Watching schedules are helpful! Oooh – I’m interested to see what you think of Parallel World! @indyfan I’m OBSESSED with it. What episodes of Mad Dog do we want to post on this week?
I’m going to wait and see about Twinkling Watermelon…
Re: Mad Dog, I liked commenting on three episodes. When I think about doing every two, that seems like a lot, and when I think about doing every four—well, you know how verbose I already am when I have to think through three episodes 🤣. But, if I had to change the plan, I’d pick the larger chunk of four if only because it divides evenly into 16 🙆♀️.
That said, what I’m ACTUALLY saying is that three seems like a good number!
As for the fire drill protocol, yeah, I don’t know. I’m not a fan of Reddit or MDL for like “website affordance” reasons, so part of my introspection was that I am not sure that there is another place I would want to go!! But then I’d miss all you Internet People! Oh, it was horrible.
Ok, episodes 3-6 for this week sounds good to me! 👍 Would You like to do the fanwall post for it this week?
Aww I know 😥 And the site still isn’t really working today, either! This is the only part of the internet I actually want to be on, haha 😄
@hopefulromantic Can do. I’ll do it on Sunday, during the “DB Doldrums.”
@elinor I’m on for this week.
3/week sounds good to me. Between the site outage and Real Life yesterday, I didn’t post my thoughts on 1-3 but I’m ready to start watching 4-6 after the final two MLL episodes, which I saved for tonight. (Was that a mistake? Maybe.)
You guys, that outage was HARD. I am way too online in general but was totally in denial about how much I rely on DB to get me through the day.
@elinor It was so haaaaaarrrddd… For me the “no warning; no reason” was the absolute worst, because I was imagining all sorts of irresolvable socio-technical issues that come with running a “website from the early 2000s, only nowadays.” I truly calmed the fuck down only when I heard it was just stupid Amazon.
And yes, “saving MLL” was a mistake. Of course, so was watching episode 15 when trying to distract myself from the outage. It’s garbage, Elinor. AND THERE’S A WHOLE ‘NOTHER EPISODE LEFT TO GO.
Oh I am so happy Hopeful. Honestly the last episode was a wee bit of letdown because I’d hoped the reveal would be, well, revealed slowly rather than one info dump. What a story she has! But I got over it because things are picking up…
Seon-ha. I’m not sure what hiatus I was speaking of. The 5-day gap? But I’m so glad you’re watching! The new kdrama releases have not been that exciting for me. But that’s OK. I have a week of travel coming up where I will be in the backwaters for a good chunk. No Internet.
**deeeeep breath*** @indyfan. Indy. I’m truly not always this needy. But do you promise to tell us right before you’ll be gone for a week? At the very least, we can think about what gifs to make you upon your triumphant return, but really, it’s so I…well…do you promise?
And, yes, about the hiatus, I guess I just meant that one week. I don’t know if I’ll catch up before the end (I haven’t done the math), but as soon as Moving is done (next few days), I’ll move towards PW.
Goodness, aren’t you making me (and many others) feel special today. And I’ll confess there was some hyperbole in my statement. It’ll be hard to stream but I’ll have enough access to check in on Dramabeans. I’ll keep bugging y’all, if irregularly.
PS Elinor rightly kept us track, but our conversations are indeed anitya in action. Equally interesting to me is how my mind flew to Christian theology to frame my question. Perhaps it’s colonization, perhaps it is easier to grasp. 🤷🏽♀️
@indyfan Yeah, well, IRL…I’m can be even moar, I’m afraid.
I’m happy to talk about the metaphysics of the ongoing presence/nature of the universe–this thing of which we are a part, but also strive to make sense of– whenever you want. Just call my name.
If the site doesn’t come crashing down on us, I hope we’ll have plenty more opportunities for such discussions organically.
And I am so glad you’re more. It’s what brings us together. Right, everybody on this thread?
@attiton @indyfan @lapislazulii @elinor @mindy @reply1988 Sorry for all the @’s – I’m back on DB, catching up with threads like this one, and wanted to say hey!! 👋!! Today at work on a break I tried to access the site, it was broken again, I gasped and said “oh no” out loud, and then realized I should calm down and trust in the system and check again later. I’ve enjoyed being a part of this community so much since I joined, and that’s because of awesome Beanies like YOU ALL!!! ❤️
Awwwww thank you so much Hopeful!!! You are such a bright ray of sunshine in this community!!!
Aww thank you so much, Mindy!!🥰 Let me say again how much I enjoy your gif(t)-sets of the dramas you’re watching!!
Hi!!! I don’t mind all the @-mentions…because it came from an awesome Beanie like YOU. I bet none of the rest of us do either 🙂
Hope you had a productive day at work!!
Thank you Seon-ha!! 🥰 It was a nice and interesting day at work!! I hope your day was good, too!!
In DB we trust (not entirely tbh).
I understand the collective mentions. I wake up and Beanies have flooded DB. Sometimes I just want to post all the responses in one mention.
And HELLO to you too 😀
Hello!!! 😄👋 And oh my gosh – I can’t wait for more eps of Parallel World!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually didn’t mind the info dump – it’s good stuff and sets things up for some strategems and action! I’m wary of a tragic ending, but I’m invested either way. And the OTP is AWESOME
Tragic ending is NOT allowed. It’s such a fun drama, they wouldn’t dare. That’s never happened before, right?
@indyfan and @hopefulromantic WAIT WHAT WHOOOAAAAA NELLY.
Tragic ending? WARY of a tragic ending? Dude, we’ve had a tragic ending with like 2 minutes notice…WE have had a tragic ending so sudden we weren’t even sure the show was OVER.
And you’re already wary of one??? Harrumph. You people are con artists.
Lol @attiton – that’s the drama watcher’s dilemma, right? The gamble we make when we roll the dice with a live-watch? 🎲 Haha I said that because I’m wary of that happening WITH EVERY DRAMA NOW 😭
So sweet❤️ happy to have beanies like you to chat to. @ me any time I prefer that to missing out because it’s a busy day on the notifications.
Aww thank you Reply1988!!😊❤️
Hey. Ages ago, somewhere, you sent out an all-hands call for drama recommendations. So of course I immediately made a list, and OF COURSE I forgot to actually post it in reply, and then lost track of it altogether. Here’s that list. Which have you seen, liked, hated, already put on your someday list?
School Nurse Files
Marriage Not Dating
Queen In-hyun’s Man
I’m Not a Robot
Link: Eat, Love, Kill
Night of Love with You (Cdrama, parody, the only one I’ve ever liked and finished)
Oh, man, I sort of remember doing that on an Open Thread once, is that what you mean?
But if this is a list of “dramas @elinor recommends” then it doesn’t matter why…I’ll TAKE IT.
I have seen Stove League. That’s the whole list of that category.
I am skeptical of I Am Not a Robot and would very much like to hear what you liked about it.
Other than that, I am not sure that ANY of these dramas are on my actual radar, so if you have any ranking or match-to-Seon-ha’s silly taste metric…I’d love to hear that too!!!
Ohhh – now that’s really interesting, because I would think I Am Not A Robot would be right up your alley (unless you aren’t a fan of the lead actors). It’s an adorable, quirky, sometimes weird, rom-com with a nice emotional core (and some humor, too).
Well, I don’t actually know why…except that the subject matter is a bit too “usually on my mind” for me. I actually chose My Holo Love between the two of them because of something some Beanie said sometime, I think—that is, they preferred it to I Am Not a Robot, I mean…
I think they both tread some of the same themes, but tonally, they’re pretty different (i.e., the sense of loneliness isn’t as pervasive in IANAR, although the ML is absolutely very lonely). I liked both! 😁
I didn’t like My Holo Love at all and dropped it But I was part of INAR’s well-deserved cult following here while it aired and thoroughly recommend it!!
Of the two, I liked INAR much more. It’s more substantial and has better actors, ideas, use of visual symbolism, and thematic development. That’s not to criticize HOLO, which I enjoyed, but there’s just a lot more going on in INAR – I could definitely rewatch it, whereas HOLO was a pleasant one-and-done. For a start, Yoo Seung-ho and Chae Soo-bin are both so appealing and affecting and they strike sparks together. The concept is ridiculous until it isn’t, because those two create well-developed and believeable characters that are consistent and touching in the way they respond to their unique and difficult circumstances and bring light and insight to each other. Also, it’s funny as heck.
INAR definitely has some lesser aspects – it occasionally wanders into the usual chaebol-corporate nonsense and has some side characters that get a little too much screen time – but they don’t come close to outweighing the huge helpings of good stuff, and you won’t miss a lot if you decide to FF once you recognize those parts. And it has one of the most satisfying, well-earned endings in dramaland.
I second everything @elinor said so eloquently about INAR. For such a “silly” premise, it’s an often beautiful drama, both visually and emotionally. There’s one conversation between the ML and FL (*under a tree on a starry night*) that’s emblazoned in my memory.
No ranking, listed in random order because it’s all what you’re in the mood for, and all off the top of my head so I may not be emphasizing what others would choose as the salient points:
School Nurse Files – off-kilter humor meets slime monsters; stoic, brave, and caring FL, Nam Joo-hyuk as sad puppy.
Marriage Not Dating – ML is sexy as hell, FL as high-spirited, outrageous fake girlfriend is perfectly imperfect; gets a touch repetitive toward the end but a fun old-style romp with a lot to say about marriage.
Queen In-hyun’s Man – time travel done right, Yoo In-na at her most charming, atypical ML is clever and resourceful. Available on Tubi as “Queen & I.”
Zombie Detective – Choi Jin-hyuk being deadpan undead; surprisingly funny and even sweet, and the voiceover narration is a riot.
Circle – crazy clever dual timeline mystery, Yeo Jin-goo and Kim Kang-woo are heartrendingly great as brothers trying to hold onto each other across time.
Link: Eat, Love, Kill – well, the title says it all, although the “kill” part dominated the end more than I would have liked. Lots of humor, not all of it dark, in the first half.
Night of Love with You (Cdrama) – clever and funny parody of Cdrama tropes, surprisingly romantic.
I loved the black comedy in Link and always meant to go back to it.
OK. This has all gone in my official “What to Watch Next List” right up at the top.
I have MLN to watch first, tho, although I’m giving myself permission to drop (as if I can do that, drop shows…well that’s not true, I have “dropped” shows, but technically-speaking they’re listed under “skimmed” because I speed-watched them all the way to the bitter end–yes, I’m looking at you Psychopath Diary sorry, @hopefulromantic ).
Although, since you can’t possibly care that this is my plan, I guess I’m saying this in case you tell me not to start there.
Don’t be sorry! Psychopath Diary was well-written, but a very uncomfortable watch… although I loved the writing, I didn’t like how it made me feel. I also used FF in that one.
You didn’t ask me but I LOVE School Nurse Files, Circle, and I’m Not a Robot. Great taste, but of course, I knew that already! 😉
Thanks for this, @mindy!
By the way, Circle was super hard to find for a long time but is now on The Roku Channel (online, not to be confused with the app, free with ads), at least in the US. I’m planning to watch it again soon; my first watch was on a sub rosa site with crappy video quality but I was so mesmerized by it that I suffered through that anyway.
Our own Lee Tennant has some excellent analysis of both Circle and INAR on her blog: https://invisibledragon.home.blog/
I say “amazing” to all of this. I’m incredibly grateful for all of these recommendations and this additional information. What a lucky Beanie, I am!
But here’s the real question I’ve always wanted to ask @elinor: Should I watch Alchemy of Souls? And if so, where would it rank in the list above??
@attiton Oh gosh. I love Alchemy – both parts – to an unhealthy degree. It’s just such crack. I say yes! Be prepared for plot holes and logic leaps, especially toward the end, but it’s a fantasy with a capital F so I was willing to let those slide. Mostly: Lee Jae-wook. Lee Jae-wook. Lee Jae-wook! He’s just awesome in this.
Ranking: for non-fangirling assessment of relative quality, somewhere in the lower half. For sheer ridiculous pleasure, not to mention fabulous visuals, right near the top. Also, Lee Jae-wook!
@elinor As always, you are restrained and classy 🙃. I am indeed also quite fond of…who was it again, you mentioned someone in passing—I can’t quite remember—oh yeah, Lee Jae-work (oh, I’m leaving that autocorrect typo in…yes, yes, I am…Lee…Jae…work).
Reading all this enthusiasm puts a smile on my face. I have very little recollections of these fun dramas tho I enjoyed them mightily at the time (including INAR and AoS Part I, and I only, sorry!). I only recall those searing melos that burnt my heart. It probably says something about me. I don’t want to know.
I will add SNF, Circle and ZD to my watch list. I lost interest in Link really fast despite its adorable leads.
I couldn’t even put words next to that wondrousness. You’re welcome. Meme that shit up.
Tee hee … you known exactly what to gif!!
LIke the original explanation, all quick, bad advice could go next to the picture.
“And *that’s* how you do it!”
My first association (other than explaining “This guy is guilty because … psychics”) is PUA tricks.
I’ve tried my hand at it, more like a test. This is Detective Moon demonstrating how Google Translate renders a Danish expression that means something like “Sorted!” or “That’s how you do it!”, also implying that it’s easy if you know how to.
I don’t know why it changes to double speed. It’s less funny that way. Sorry.
I dunno—might be more funny!! This is hilarious!!!
I feel a bit like Jae-kyung now. Jokewise.
This week’s DWY weecap page encouraged me to continue with these posts. Posting to the Fan Wall on a Saturday can be hit or miss, but it seems that this community is collegially split between lovers and skeptics of this show, and perhaps some gifs might even bring us together to enjoy a few pretties (or frustrations!) this weekend. I’ve got a little something for everyone, I hope. More (as usual) coming in the comments!