OK! For fun, and perhaps some happy reminiscences, here are a few of my favorite things about Thirty but Seventeen:
1. It’s like a secret Stove League reunion…prequel? I’ve never seen so many Korean baseball players pretending to be actors in a drama all at one time 😉
2. Just like with Splish, Splash, Love, I simply refused to recognize Ahn Hyo-Seop throughout most of the run because he simply doesn’t look like himself. But then, again as with Splish, Splash, Love, in the final episodes/scenes, I was all, “Oh! Look! It really is him!”
3. That beautiful, BEAUTIFUL, house that reminds me of my own youth. What an amazing piece of period architecture.
4. The fact that when the actors cry in this series, they cry actual waterfalls of tears. Like sheets and sheets of water comes out of their eyes, then blankets their cheeks, and drips off their chins. It looks really uncomfortable!!
5. And, last but certainly, not at all least, the national treasure that is Yeh Ji-won.
Korean baseball players? Who?
I had no idea about it 😅
The house is beautiful, indeed. And Jennifer is a great character.
It’s true that Ahn Hyo Seop looks quite different. I had watched him in Abyss, Business Proposal and Splash Splash Love before watching Thirty but Seventeen. I knew he was him, but he looks so much younger!
oh my god lol I’ve watched Splash Splash Love and it JUST hit me that Ahn Hyo Seop is in it. Like I recognised him at the time but I didn’t really register it WOW.
Also in the same boat for me in 30 but 17 is Lee Do Hyun! I know it’s him but I also simply refuse to recognise it’s him (even though he looks the same) 😂
OK! Reaching out for “Am I crazy?” help. I mean you can say no, there’s no help for you, clearly. However, I’m asking all the same.
I’m watching Thirty but Seventeen thanks to so many beanies, and am loving it. But here’s the thing: in episode 3, at about 11m20, Seo-ri’s mom leans over to play a song on the car stereo when they’re discussing what playing violin means to her/them. That song is definitely from Because This Life Is Our First (quick check, it’s “Star Drawing” by UJI).
Here’s my “crazy check,” was that song just popular in Korea at the time as like a regular song-song and that’s why it’s in both dramas? Or is this a reference between the shows? BTLIOF came out the year prior (2017) to Thirty but Seventeen (2018), so I’m wondering. The tune so ingrained in my mind from BTLIOF that hearing it threw me right out of the moment…
In the version on Yepdrama, which seems to be the original, it’s a different piece – the “Ha Ha Ha Polka” – played by an orchestra, and the mom’s dialogue refers to it when she says, “This is what you’re supposed to listen to at a time like this. No problems or worries. Polka.” That line is cut from the Viki version. Then mom says, “ha ha ha ha” in time with the polka, which doesn’t make any sense when said with the BTLIOF music. It’s probably a copyright issue, but the same music director (Mun Seong Nam) worked on both shows, so I think it’s somebody’s little inside joke to substitute “Star Drawing” for the polka.
It can be rough to begin a 16+ hour drama with something engaging but not too telling. It’s one thing to hook someone on a plot and another thing to keep them for the long-haul.
Sometimes, the initial episodes are rough and we don’t stay tuned. But other times, we are gripped by something, right from the start, EVEN IF the show doesn’t live up to its promise.
I’ll submit Divorce Attorney Shin as evidence here. I loved this drama to the end, but could understand counter-arguments. We see the main characters through and through right from the beginning, and we are not set up for a clear boy-meets-girl conclusion. It was masterful, frankly.
I’ll submit Sh***ting Stars here as a counter-argument. If I hadn’t lasted beyond the distasteful first hours, I wouldn’t have found the delightful collaborative acting that followed.
What say you all? When the beginning is strong, what are your expectations? When the beginning is “meh,” do you just allow it to be “as we expect, but nothing more?”
I think context is everything, if it’s a slow period I will stick with something that’s ok but when I have choices the ok drama will be dropped. Chinese rom com there are so many to chose from that I often drop within the first episode but a K drama I may stop watching and follow via the weecap and then come back to it later.
If it’s a genre I like and it’s a slow start I will use the four episode rule as there are not many dramas I can live watch safely these days. If it’s a no longer airing drama it’s more likely to be dropped.
I love a strong start where something in the story, or the characters interactions holds my attention and makes me curious to stay and see where it is going to go. If it starts to show signs of running out of steam it depends how far in I am and what other options are available.
Last year I wanted to do the bean count so I stayed for dramas I wanted to drop this year I don’t mind my bean count reflecting the dramas that brought joy.
Thanks for the thoughtful post! Overnight I also started thinking about those dramas whose first episodes were good enough, but were somehow different from/didn’t reflect the vibe of the rest of the show…I put Love to Hate You in this category as well as, even, Goblin.
I think I drop shows for different reasons—more personal maybe?—than the quality of the characterization at the start. Or, maybe I’m just fooling myself. 🙂
I fall into the trap of ‘strong beginnings = strong endings’ all the time, despite watching so many dramas that start super strong and then nose-dive in the second half. I think the excitement (especially if its an on-air) that comes with having a really good start just inevitably leads to the hope that excitement that it’ll end well too. And in my defence, the logic is there I think. Like if the writers, actors and director(s) can hit the ground running, then then surely that means they’ve crafted a solid script & drama for the entirety of the drama? I guess that’s the double edged sword here though, a really good start means that the crash hurts twice as much!
BUT the relentless optimism continues for every drama I watch where I immediately get attached at the start. It’s like my memory resets from every ‘bad’ experience 😂
For the reverse situation, where it’s a horrible beginning, it really depends like what @Reply1988 said. If it’s already finished airing and people are telling me to stick it out, if I’m bored or if there’s some element of the show that’s convincing me to stick around, I usually will more often than not. I guess in these cases, if the bar is set low then worst scenario is that it stays that way and best is that it can only go up!
Oh wow, yeah, great point about the strong beginnings not always equaling strong endings…and also about the ways that early episodes can build trust in the production team—trust that is often (is that too cruel?) betrayed in episode 15.
I can say, though, now that you’ve asked me to think about it, that there are at least two dramas whose endings I simply not seemed to be ready for the first time through, but upon re-watching they made much more sense and were much more satisfying—Because This Life Is Our First and, wow, twice in two comments, Goblin. I may be quite alone in this latter one, but I eventually came around to that ending pretty strongly.
I agree with your comment on Goblin!! I was mad at the ending for a long while after but I also found that after rewatching, it made much more ‘sense’ and honestly was the perfect way to end the story. Anything else would’ve seemed like a cop out or ‘weak’ ending. I guess there are some cases where a traditional happy ending is the worse ending and does a disservice to the plot and themes (Youth of May is another that comes to mind in the same category).
I have learnt that even “meh” starts can lead to great ends.
And sometimes great starts can lead to not so great (or even meh) ends too.
It takes me time to take a liking to many k-dramas, so there is always a moment I don’t know what to do, but as I’m not an easy “dropper”, I usually keep watching.
I have already watched two and a half episodes of Good Manager and sadly I have to say that I don’t like it, but it’s sad because I wanted to like it! I know it is good, so I can’t drop it easily because I know something better must be waiting for me in next episodes.
But it is written by the Vincenzo’s writer and that is a drama I didn’t totally enjoy (I watched it completely), and I didn’t even connect to its kind of humor.
So… what a dilemma 😅
Thanks for engaging on this! And, yes, I did mean, in part, “when do you drop,” but I also meant, “how do you maintain your expectations (high or low) based on the starting episodes,” like you’ve emphasized here. Maybe the key to that is that you’re so persistent (I tend to be too, so I might also just be projecting!).
You didn’t ask, but I can tell you that I ended up really, really enjoying Good Manager, but it was mainly for the unabashed joy of watching Namgoong Min and Junho bicker. I’m also a sucker for shows that have the joy of watching human relationships grow that aren’t obviously romantic attraction. I think that’s how I found Good Manager, in fact—on a post here about “shows without romance.” Stranger, obvs, is another one. Stove League (NM again) is too, but without Junho, not as good :).
Currently watching Good Manager. I found it funny and entertaining in the beginning, but I was no longer feeling it as it progressed. The jokes were getting old for me and Manager Kim is too clown. I didn’t know that it was written by Vincenzo’s writer, but I actually got Vincenzo vibes while watching it. Both their comedies are too slapstick for my liking. I’m just continuing watching it just for the sake of finishing it (only 2 episodes of struggle left).
I mean, the scene at 48m10 of episode 19 in the bar is comedy GOLD…but if you don’t like slapstick, I could see perhaps not finding it amusing. Let us know if you like!
I have only watched five episodes so far. Yes, there are Vincenzo vibes and I didn’t like many things in that show.
I still don’t know what to do. I’m enjoying watching Namgoong Min and Junho’s relationship, but I’m not sure about the rest and all the “villains” sequences are too boring.
This has me thinking though of what kept me going (beyond the bickering, and believe me, episode 19 may be worth the whole price of admission). I think I actually cared what happened in the end of this thing. Were characters going to be redeemed? What would Chief Kim do next that was unexpectedly amazing? What new food PPL would I see, and would Junho be eating it?
Dunno! I just let it wash over me and had a great time.
“What would Chief Kim do next that was unexpectedly amazing?”
That’s something that would help me going too.
As long as he doesn’t end up bleeding or being beaten, or fighting/kicking…
I’m not really into that kind of action.
Depending on mood and timing but I mostly dont mind meh beginnings as sometimes a Show just needs time to introduce its set up. When a show starts out strong, and keeps being great up to 4 episodes, that’s when i start praying they don’t mess it up.
For rough starts, the one most clear in my memory is A Piece of Your Mind. No one had any clue what the drama was about, the first episode was so confusing and somewhat dark & creepy. The only thing that made me continue was my love for both leads and it was well worth it cos that drama turned out to be a gem. It was a stinking pity though that lots of viewers dropped it after the first episode.
Up to few years ago, when i start a drama i always have the intention of finishing it but now i dont mind trying out a few episodes to gauge my interest and dropping it if it’s not my taste. There’s too many content available now to invest time in something you dont like.
Thanks! It’s funny, the way you phrased your first sentence put this thought in my mind: “What’s the line between a “meh” beginning/“meh” drama, and a simple, calming drama?”
What’s the line or distinction between “meh” and “healing?” The viewer’s state-of-mind??
But 100% in agreement on fretting that a strong start can beget, “Please, please don’t mess it up” prayers. How distracting! I’ve also not seen Piece of Your Mind, but it’s on ye olde list!
Hahah but it’s true right, the line is so flexible based on a myriad of factors.. rough day at work, what you ate, if you had a good/bad day, whether you have 10 minutes or 2 hours to chill..
I’m impatient with everything expect this. 😂 I don’t need (or expect) a show to go full fast and furious from minute one.
Sometimes it seems like the writer is trying to do a solid building of the story (slow burns/slice of life for ex), and I’m fine with that, they can take their time. And sometimes it seems like the writer/director is trying to figure things out, so everything is a mess but you can see the potential. I can wait for them to figure things out too (Law School for ex), I know beginnings are a struggle.
I don’t give beginnings that much power tbh. If it starts bad that’s no problem, it only has to get better later. Going from bad to good is fine (Introvert Boss for ex).
What comes next is the problem. If the show goes nowhere after giving it a chance I’ll feel really annoyed.
And I definitely prefer shows that start “meh” and then they turn out fun that shows that start strong and then turn out awful.
If I drop a show from the beginning is because they’re just not for me, but it never has to do with the pace of the show itself.
Ooooh…patience. That’s a great theme here. I hear you expressing the need/desire to have patience with the production team as well as with the story itself.
It also sounds a bit like offering patience is an investment: great when it pays off, but pretty darn disappointing when it does not. I’m totally on board.
OK. I’d like to talk fashion for a moment. I’ve brought up the glorious costume work in Joseon Attorney a few times already, but LOOK at this linen! Even the baddies were dressed to the nines in the most exceptionally tailored attire. Sigh. Such beauty.
This attention to detail reminded me as well of the first time that the costuming in a drama really caught my attention so strongly that I realized it was almost another character. That’s Gu Ryeon’s attire in Tomorrow.
I’d love to hear if other Beanies have other dramas and/or characters whose costuming really stood out for them!!
Those are some pretty luxe fabrics!!!! I’ve not seen this drama (wow, does Song Joon-ki look young!) but it must be amazing to watch them move in these costumes for hours on end.
I waited for him to come on screen (in non school uniform) every minute! The costumes were thrilling (for a fabric nut like me) and his performance did them justice! 😃
My second nomination would be everyone’s costuming in Queen’s Umbrella. Fabulous!
I also liked Ryeon’s style in Tomorrow. Ae-ra (Fight For My Way) and the Alchemy of Souls crew come to mind for me when I think about costumes that are memorable. Ae-ra’s wardrobe stood out to me because it was 90% lounge wear, but like LEGIT loungewear not the fashionable kind (I’m I’m pretty sure she wears that orange jersey almost all the time). Looked very natural and comfortable and exactly like the kind of stuff I wear around the house hahaha.
And the Jin family women in Alchemy of Soul had some immaculate costuming, make up and styling through both seasons! And although the boys didn’t have as much variation, Jang-uk’s blue costumes were so lovely.
It looks to me—having not been able to enjoy this drama (sorry!)—that some folks are dressed in pastels and others in the bright, jewel tones. Did this reflect their status or their characters or anything?
I actually have no idea whether the colors reflect their status or not😅. I got the feeling that the designer succeed to match the color of the outfits to the personality of the characters and the scenes where they were used.
Same! There were several moments where I had to rewind because I realized I’d been staring at his hair and had missed the subtitles. I was deeply distressed, to the point of near-depression, to see him with a different hairstyle at the start of Season 2.
I only watched the first 10 minutes of ep. 1; maybe he comes to his senses and goes back to his stylist later.
I actually thought his gorgeous locks were a little out of character in Season 1 – Shi-mok doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would spend the necessary time to achieve that crowning glory every day. I decided it’s just the one single solitary plot hole in the whole show.
I absolutely agree with this. For a guy who can’t engage with/feel his emotions he seems to care a whole lot about his glorious mane. This is all to our aesthetic benefit, though, so I’m not complaining!
I did have to stop several times during the last 3 episodes to catch my breath. Without spoilers, I’m glad the show gave itself time to work through the emotions and fallout of the climactic events.
Thank you!! I’m getting it done as we speak, like 20 seconds at a time before pausing…but what I keep thinking of is the “Hell Joseon” of Lee Dan-ah’s Strongest Deliveryman!!!!
Oh, yeah, “Si-mok hair disappointment” confirmed—in other news, though, I’m so happy to see the crew come back on the screen one at a time!!! I’m glad I didn’t have to wait years.
I’ve definitely decided that Bae Doo-na’s long, straight hair can have all of my attention this season 😉
Bora! Deborah/True to Love thought for here: You suppose Tiffany deserves it’s PPL money back? Despite the omnipresence of the company’s signature color, those rings brought no one anything good 😉
Has anyone seen any writing here on this site or in any other *pleasant* corner of the internet interpreting the way that the pink filter in Call It Love gets stronger and weaker over the course of the drama? Upon reflection, I’m sure it’s meaningful and I think it goes in waves depending on who’s on screen, but I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t have the time or, frankly, the emotional stamina to watch it again to figure this out on my own…
There was a little bit of commentary peppered through some of the weekly recaps, and I vaguely remember a thread in particular for the last week recap! Someone had the idea of it being sort of representative of the female gaze of sorts and as as part of the subversion of stereotypical femininity in dramas.
Same with reddit, there were a few comments in the weekly threads for the drama where people were offering up their take on what the pink stands for (look at the ep 7-8, and 9-10 threads in particular!). I think the overarching idea from most people there was that the pink symbolised the leads’ depression/emotional rut/misery and it begins to clear up when they start to use each other as a space to heal and find happiness.
My own theory was that it had something to do with creating a twilight/dusk vibe (like you know when you get that pinkish quality to the sky sometimes right before the sun sets or rises) to mirror the fact that the leads were sort of suspended in time for the most part. And then it finally begins to dissipate when they’re able to find emotional freedom and begin to move forward in their lives, ‘further into the day’ if you will.
I’m not sure if it exists but I’d love to hear if the cinematographer or director have said anything to explain the creative choice behind the filter – it’s driving me insane not knowing exactly what they wanted BUT maybe the point (and fun of it) is that we all analyse it in different ways and they’re all valid!
This is one of the reasons I didn’t like the show. The pink filter kept changing strength and hue between every cut and angle. It was extremely tiring on my eye and my mind. And I did try to pinpoint a meaning for it to make it easier on myself, but it was no use. I found it completely random.
Thats using Magenta Hue in Color grading (a technique in film making) which is used to give footage a certain style or certain meaning (on a subconscious level)
what i understood with my lil knowledge abt film making n color grading magenta hue is used mostly to give an ominous, unsettling feelings to viewers as if things arent as good as they are being projected on screen.
and in call it love by the time we reach the end the coloes were kind of back to normal bright sunshine look instead of this magenta tone… also based on the character on screen intensity of tone was changed to support that ominous in their lives.
though i was not a fan at start cause it gave me not so happy feeling while watching the drama but as it progressed i kind of figured out why it was used.
hope i was able to explain it to you as much as i could understand.
Good grief, because of @leetennant’s post, I went to go and watch the opening scene again (agreed—its masterful) and heard, as if for the first time when it was not, that the radio was playing the fully-produced version of the song played in the last scene by Woo-Joo’s brother solely on a guitar. When I think back on this drama, I remember Sim Ji-Gu’s role frequently. He was like a sprite, inciting action and/or calming destruction when necessary.
WOW was there a lot of attention put into this drama.
I love that it was his theft of her disability sticker for use on his car that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Cha Jung-sook. Much praise, also, for Kim Byung-chul’s portrayal of Seo In-ho…also aided by writing that places real humanity in this execrable excuse for a husband. I bet having empathy for him is gonna be divisive, but “Dr. Cha” is doing a great job of keeping my sympathy for so many of these flawed characters in what’s otherwise a pretty silly physical comedy.
The comeuppance! The “all the genres” of show! The “all the genres” of music! The abrupt transitions from gut-wrenching sadness to ridiculous silliness!! The Agatha Christie reveals! The filial piety!
The gorgeous, gorgeous costuming! (I mean, even the villain’s potter-as-hobby work clothes!) The camera work! Not a single trope left unturned…and emphasized! I really enjoyed Joseon Attorney.
Seon-ha
June 1, 2023 at 5:05 PM
Seon-ha
June 1, 2023 at 5:08 PM
Justification link: https://www.dramabeans.com/2023/06/k-drama-treasure-hunt-funny-nicknames-saved-in-phones/#comment-4091210
Seon-ha
June 1, 2023 at 8:52 AM
OK! For fun, and perhaps some happy reminiscences, here are a few of my favorite things about Thirty but Seventeen:
1. It’s like a secret Stove League reunion…prequel? I’ve never seen so many Korean baseball players pretending to be actors in a drama all at one time 😉
2. Just like with Splish, Splash, Love, I simply refused to recognize Ahn Hyo-Seop throughout most of the run because he simply doesn’t look like himself. But then, again as with Splish, Splash, Love, in the final episodes/scenes, I was all, “Oh! Look! It really is him!”
3. That beautiful, BEAUTIFUL, house that reminds me of my own youth. What an amazing piece of period architecture.
4. The fact that when the actors cry in this series, they cry actual waterfalls of tears. Like sheets and sheets of water comes out of their eyes, then blankets their cheeks, and drips off their chins. It looks really uncomfortable!!
5. And, last but certainly, not at all least, the national treasure that is Yeh Ji-won.
IsaGC
June 1, 2023 at 10:44 AM
Korean baseball players? Who?
I had no idea about it 😅
The house is beautiful, indeed. And Jennifer is a great character.
It’s true that Ahn Hyo Seop looks quite different. I had watched him in Abyss, Business Proposal and Splash Splash Love before watching Thirty but Seventeen. I knew he was him, but he looks so much younger!
PYC
June 2, 2023 at 8:58 AM
I wonder if he’s done braces after 30but17. It’s his mouth and teeth that look different.
lapislazulii
June 1, 2023 at 3:20 PM
oh my god lol I’ve watched Splash Splash Love and it JUST hit me that Ahn Hyo Seop is in it. Like I recognised him at the time but I didn’t really register it WOW.
Also in the same boat for me in 30 but 17 is Lee Do Hyun! I know it’s him but I also simply refuse to recognise it’s him (even though he looks the same) 😂
HopefulRomantic
June 2, 2023 at 3:16 PM
Aww! ❤️❤️❤️
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 12:48 PM
OK! Reaching out for “Am I crazy?” help. I mean you can say no, there’s no help for you, clearly. However, I’m asking all the same.
I’m watching Thirty but Seventeen thanks to so many beanies, and am loving it. But here’s the thing: in episode 3, at about 11m20, Seo-ri’s mom leans over to play a song on the car stereo when they’re discussing what playing violin means to her/them. That song is definitely from Because This Life Is Our First (quick check, it’s “Star Drawing” by UJI).
Here’s my “crazy check,” was that song just popular in Korea at the time as like a regular song-song and that’s why it’s in both dramas? Or is this a reference between the shows? BTLIOF came out the year prior (2017) to Thirty but Seventeen (2018), so I’m wondering. The tune so ingrained in my mind from BTLIOF that hearing it threw me right out of the moment…
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 12:51 PM
….or did Viki have to change the original music due to royalty rights? That’s another option (like Daria in the US).
mindy
May 30, 2023 at 2:12 PM
Could be that! But I do remember the song charting a bit on Melon when the drama aired so could just be a coincidence.
Tangential but She Is by Clazziquai from Kim Sam-soon is still played in cafes in Korea to this day and it blows my mind!
Elinor
May 30, 2023 at 2:16 PM
In the version on Yepdrama, which seems to be the original, it’s a different piece – the “Ha Ha Ha Polka” – played by an orchestra, and the mom’s dialogue refers to it when she says, “This is what you’re supposed to listen to at a time like this. No problems or worries. Polka.” That line is cut from the Viki version. Then mom says, “ha ha ha ha” in time with the polka, which doesn’t make any sense when said with the BTLIOF music. It’s probably a copyright issue, but the same music director (Mun Seong Nam) worked on both shows, so I think it’s somebody’s little inside joke to substitute “Star Drawing” for the polka.
Elinor
May 30, 2023 at 2:19 PM
Here’s a performance of that polka that sounds very similar to the brief clip in Thirty But Seventeen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCd51XNWcCk
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 2:44 PM
POLKA?? That’s my love music!!!! I can’t believe that I was so ripped off here. I mean, it jibes with the “Germany theme.”
Sort of also angry that to do this they changed the dialogue. OK, maybe “angry” is too much, but miffed.
I’ll just grab onto your inside joke interpretation and go with it. Thank you!!!
Seon-ha
May 29, 2023 at 4:32 PM
In Defense of Early Episodes
It can be rough to begin a 16+ hour drama with something engaging but not too telling. It’s one thing to hook someone on a plot and another thing to keep them for the long-haul.
Sometimes, the initial episodes are rough and we don’t stay tuned. But other times, we are gripped by something, right from the start, EVEN IF the show doesn’t live up to its promise.
I’ll submit Divorce Attorney Shin as evidence here. I loved this drama to the end, but could understand counter-arguments. We see the main characters through and through right from the beginning, and we are not set up for a clear boy-meets-girl conclusion. It was masterful, frankly.
I’ll submit Sh***ting Stars here as a counter-argument. If I hadn’t lasted beyond the distasteful first hours, I wouldn’t have found the delightful collaborative acting that followed.
What say you all? When the beginning is strong, what are your expectations? When the beginning is “meh,” do you just allow it to be “as we expect, but nothing more?”
Reply1988
May 29, 2023 at 9:54 PM
I think context is everything, if it’s a slow period I will stick with something that’s ok but when I have choices the ok drama will be dropped. Chinese rom com there are so many to chose from that I often drop within the first episode but a K drama I may stop watching and follow via the weecap and then come back to it later.
If it’s a genre I like and it’s a slow start I will use the four episode rule as there are not many dramas I can live watch safely these days. If it’s a no longer airing drama it’s more likely to be dropped.
I love a strong start where something in the story, or the characters interactions holds my attention and makes me curious to stay and see where it is going to go. If it starts to show signs of running out of steam it depends how far in I am and what other options are available.
Last year I wanted to do the bean count so I stayed for dramas I wanted to drop this year I don’t mind my bean count reflecting the dramas that brought joy.
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 4:01 AM
Thanks for the thoughtful post! Overnight I also started thinking about those dramas whose first episodes were good enough, but were somehow different from/didn’t reflect the vibe of the rest of the show…I put Love to Hate You in this category as well as, even, Goblin.
I think I drop shows for different reasons—more personal maybe?—than the quality of the characterization at the start. Or, maybe I’m just fooling myself. 🙂
lapislazulii
May 30, 2023 at 12:04 AM
I fall into the trap of ‘strong beginnings = strong endings’ all the time, despite watching so many dramas that start super strong and then nose-dive in the second half. I think the excitement (especially if its an on-air) that comes with having a really good start just inevitably leads to the hope that excitement that it’ll end well too. And in my defence, the logic is there I think. Like if the writers, actors and director(s) can hit the ground running, then then surely that means they’ve crafted a solid script & drama for the entirety of the drama? I guess that’s the double edged sword here though, a really good start means that the crash hurts twice as much!
BUT the relentless optimism continues for every drama I watch where I immediately get attached at the start. It’s like my memory resets from every ‘bad’ experience 😂
For the reverse situation, where it’s a horrible beginning, it really depends like what @Reply1988 said. If it’s already finished airing and people are telling me to stick it out, if I’m bored or if there’s some element of the show that’s convincing me to stick around, I usually will more often than not. I guess in these cases, if the bar is set low then worst scenario is that it stays that way and best is that it can only go up!
lapislazulii
May 30, 2023 at 12:05 AM
*the hope and excitement
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 4:06 AM
Oh wow, yeah, great point about the strong beginnings not always equaling strong endings…and also about the ways that early episodes can build trust in the production team—trust that is often (is that too cruel?) betrayed in episode 15.
I can say, though, now that you’ve asked me to think about it, that there are at least two dramas whose endings I simply not seemed to be ready for the first time through, but upon re-watching they made much more sense and were much more satisfying—Because This Life Is Our First and, wow, twice in two comments, Goblin. I may be quite alone in this latter one, but I eventually came around to that ending pretty strongly.
lapislazulii
May 30, 2023 at 4:38 AM
I agree with your comment on Goblin!! I was mad at the ending for a long while after but I also found that after rewatching, it made much more ‘sense’ and honestly was the perfect way to end the story. Anything else would’ve seemed like a cop out or ‘weak’ ending. I guess there are some cases where a traditional happy ending is the worse ending and does a disservice to the plot and themes (Youth of May is another that comes to mind in the same category).
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 5:00 AM
All the thumbs-up on this!
IsaGC
May 30, 2023 at 1:32 AM
I have learnt that even “meh” starts can lead to great ends.
And sometimes great starts can lead to not so great (or even meh) ends too.
It takes me time to take a liking to many k-dramas, so there is always a moment I don’t know what to do, but as I’m not an easy “dropper”, I usually keep watching.
I have already watched two and a half episodes of Good Manager and sadly I have to say that I don’t like it, but it’s sad because I wanted to like it! I know it is good, so I can’t drop it easily because I know something better must be waiting for me in next episodes.
But it is written by the Vincenzo’s writer and that is a drama I didn’t totally enjoy (I watched it completely), and I didn’t even connect to its kind of humor.
So… what a dilemma 😅
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 4:14 AM
Thanks for engaging on this! And, yes, I did mean, in part, “when do you drop,” but I also meant, “how do you maintain your expectations (high or low) based on the starting episodes,” like you’ve emphasized here. Maybe the key to that is that you’re so persistent (I tend to be too, so I might also just be projecting!).
You didn’t ask, but I can tell you that I ended up really, really enjoying Good Manager, but it was mainly for the unabashed joy of watching Namgoong Min and Junho bicker. I’m also a sucker for shows that have the joy of watching human relationships grow that aren’t obviously romantic attraction. I think that’s how I found Good Manager, in fact—on a post here about “shows without romance.” Stranger, obvs, is another one. Stove League (NM again) is too, but without Junho, not as good :).
IsaGC
May 30, 2023 at 7:16 AM
Thank you!! Some of my favorite dramas don’t have romance. I’m thinking of Misaeng, which is wonderful and got me hooked as it is 🙂
Minka
June 1, 2023 at 6:23 PM
Currently watching Good Manager. I found it funny and entertaining in the beginning, but I was no longer feeling it as it progressed. The jokes were getting old for me and Manager Kim is too clown. I didn’t know that it was written by Vincenzo’s writer, but I actually got Vincenzo vibes while watching it. Both their comedies are too slapstick for my liking. I’m just continuing watching it just for the sake of finishing it (only 2 episodes of struggle left).
Seon-ha
June 1, 2023 at 6:32 PM
I mean, the scene at 48m10 of episode 19 in the bar is comedy GOLD…but if you don’t like slapstick, I could see perhaps not finding it amusing. Let us know if you like!
Minka
June 1, 2023 at 6:51 PM
Thanks, at least there’s something for me to look forward to in ep19. Hee hee…
I might get back to this thread after I watched it.
IsaGC
June 1, 2023 at 10:22 PM
I have only watched five episodes so far. Yes, there are Vincenzo vibes and I didn’t like many things in that show.
I still don’t know what to do. I’m enjoying watching Namgoong Min and Junho’s relationship, but I’m not sure about the rest and all the “villains” sequences are too boring.
Seon-ha
June 2, 2023 at 4:34 AM
To each their own! Drop away 😉
This has me thinking though of what kept me going (beyond the bickering, and believe me, episode 19 may be worth the whole price of admission). I think I actually cared what happened in the end of this thing. Were characters going to be redeemed? What would Chief Kim do next that was unexpectedly amazing? What new food PPL would I see, and would Junho be eating it?
Dunno! I just let it wash over me and had a great time.
IsaGC
June 2, 2023 at 4:55 AM
“What would Chief Kim do next that was unexpectedly amazing?”
That’s something that would help me going too.
As long as he doesn’t end up bleeding or being beaten, or fighting/kicking…
I’m not really into that kind of action.
parkchuna is excited for June 🕑💚
May 30, 2023 at 5:31 AM
Depending on mood and timing but I mostly dont mind meh beginnings as sometimes a Show just needs time to introduce its set up. When a show starts out strong, and keeps being great up to 4 episodes, that’s when i start praying they don’t mess it up.
For rough starts, the one most clear in my memory is A Piece of Your Mind. No one had any clue what the drama was about, the first episode was so confusing and somewhat dark & creepy. The only thing that made me continue was my love for both leads and it was well worth it cos that drama turned out to be a gem. It was a stinking pity though that lots of viewers dropped it after the first episode.
Up to few years ago, when i start a drama i always have the intention of finishing it but now i dont mind trying out a few episodes to gauge my interest and dropping it if it’s not my taste. There’s too many content available now to invest time in something you dont like.
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 5:41 AM
Thanks! It’s funny, the way you phrased your first sentence put this thought in my mind: “What’s the line between a “meh” beginning/“meh” drama, and a simple, calming drama?”
What’s the line or distinction between “meh” and “healing?” The viewer’s state-of-mind??
But 100% in agreement on fretting that a strong start can beget, “Please, please don’t mess it up” prayers. How distracting! I’ve also not seen Piece of Your Mind, but it’s on ye olde list!
parkchuna is excited for June 🕑💚
May 31, 2023 at 12:31 AM
Hahah but it’s true right, the line is so flexible based on a myriad of factors.. rough day at work, what you ate, if you had a good/bad day, whether you have 10 minutes or 2 hours to chill..
tabong
May 30, 2023 at 4:12 PM
I’m impatient with everything expect this. 😂 I don’t need (or expect) a show to go full fast and furious from minute one.
Sometimes it seems like the writer is trying to do a solid building of the story (slow burns/slice of life for ex), and I’m fine with that, they can take their time. And sometimes it seems like the writer/director is trying to figure things out, so everything is a mess but you can see the potential. I can wait for them to figure things out too (Law School for ex), I know beginnings are a struggle.
I don’t give beginnings that much power tbh. If it starts bad that’s no problem, it only has to get better later. Going from bad to good is fine (Introvert Boss for ex).
What comes next is the problem. If the show goes nowhere after giving it a chance I’ll feel really annoyed.
And I definitely prefer shows that start “meh” and then they turn out fun that shows that start strong and then turn out awful.
If I drop a show from the beginning is because they’re just not for me, but it never has to do with the pace of the show itself.
Seon-ha
May 31, 2023 at 4:17 AM
Ooooh…patience. That’s a great theme here. I hear you expressing the need/desire to have patience with the production team as well as with the story itself.
It also sounds a bit like offering patience is an investment: great when it pays off, but pretty darn disappointing when it does not. I’m totally on board.
tabong
May 31, 2023 at 2:00 PM
Exactly! I couldn’t have say it better.
Seon-ha
May 28, 2023 at 1:55 PM
Smooth, Roy, smooooth. Did growing up in America teach you how to talk like that? 🙃
#DrChaEp13
Seon-ha
May 28, 2023 at 4:29 PM
OMG. “Your daughterS are suffering!” There’s very little I dislike about Dr. Cha.
Seon-ha
May 27, 2023 at 7:17 AM
OK. I’d like to talk fashion for a moment. I’ve brought up the glorious costume work in Joseon Attorney a few times already, but LOOK at this linen! Even the baddies were dressed to the nines in the most exceptionally tailored attire. Sigh. Such beauty.
This attention to detail reminded me as well of the first time that the costuming in a drama really caught my attention so strongly that I realized it was almost another character. That’s Gu Ryeon’s attire in Tomorrow.
I’d love to hear if other Beanies have other dramas and/or characters whose costuming really stood out for them!!
bbstl
May 27, 2023 at 8:29 AM
Always, Gu Yong Ha in Sunkyunkwan Scandal *chef’s kiss*
Seon-ha
May 28, 2023 at 8:06 AM
Those are some pretty luxe fabrics!!!! I’ve not seen this drama (wow, does Song Joon-ki look young!) but it must be amazing to watch them move in these costumes for hours on end.
bbstl
May 28, 2023 at 9:46 AM
I waited for him to come on screen (in non school uniform) every minute! The costumes were thrilling (for a fabric nut like me) and his performance did them justice! 😃
My second nomination would be everyone’s costuming in Queen’s Umbrella. Fabulous!
lapislazulii
May 27, 2023 at 9:44 PM
I also liked Ryeon’s style in Tomorrow. Ae-ra (Fight For My Way) and the Alchemy of Souls crew come to mind for me when I think about costumes that are memorable. Ae-ra’s wardrobe stood out to me because it was 90% lounge wear, but like LEGIT loungewear not the fashionable kind (I’m I’m pretty sure she wears that orange jersey almost all the time). Looked very natural and comfortable and exactly like the kind of stuff I wear around the house hahaha.
And the Jin family women in Alchemy of Soul had some immaculate costuming, make up and styling through both seasons! And although the boys didn’t have as much variation, Jang-uk’s blue costumes were so lovely.
Seon-ha
May 28, 2023 at 7:59 AM
Oh wow…loungewear for the win, for sure.
And I love the mixture of fabrics in Jang-uk’s costuming!!!!
Kurama
May 28, 2023 at 12:40 AM
The King’s Affection costumes were really bright and colorful. I love they used pink, purple, yellow, green, etc.
Seon-ha
May 28, 2023 at 8:00 AM
OOOH. So bright, the colors! And so many of them together.
bewitched
May 28, 2023 at 1:33 AM
I love the overall costumes of The King Loves, especially Wang Rin’s and the King’s mother’s.
Seon-ha
May 28, 2023 at 8:02 AM
It looks to me—having not been able to enjoy this drama (sorry!)—that some folks are dressed in pastels and others in the bright, jewel tones. Did this reflect their status or their characters or anything?
bewitched
May 28, 2023 at 7:58 PM
I actually have no idea whether the colors reflect their status or not😅. I got the feeling that the designer succeed to match the color of the outfits to the personality of the characters and the scenes where they were used.
Seon-ha
May 27, 2023 at 6:16 AM
When I grow up, I want to have hair as amazing as Hwang Si-mok has. I’m frequently distracted from the plot of Stranger by its excellence.
Elinor
May 27, 2023 at 10:45 AM
Same! There were several moments where I had to rewind because I realized I’d been staring at his hair and had missed the subtitles. I was deeply distressed, to the point of near-depression, to see him with a different hairstyle at the start of Season 2.
Seon-ha
May 27, 2023 at 11:26 AM
Oh no hair spoiler!!!!! 😉
Elinor
May 27, 2023 at 11:35 AM
I only watched the first 10 minutes of ep. 1; maybe he comes to his senses and goes back to his stylist later.
I actually thought his gorgeous locks were a little out of character in Season 1 – Shi-mok doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would spend the necessary time to achieve that crowning glory every day. I decided it’s just the one single solitary plot hole in the whole show.
Seon-ha
May 27, 2023 at 11:39 AM
I absolutely agree with this. For a guy who can’t engage with/feel his emotions he seems to care a whole lot about his glorious mane. This is all to our aesthetic benefit, though, so I’m not complaining!
Seon-ha
May 27, 2023 at 4:54 PM
@Elinor I can make it to the end here, right???? I’m at the end of S1. I can’t open my eyes. You are telling me I can do it?
Elinor
May 27, 2023 at 5:21 PM
You absolutely can. Hwaiting!
I did have to stop several times during the last 3 episodes to catch my breath. Without spoilers, I’m glad the show gave itself time to work through the emotions and fallout of the climactic events.
Seon-ha
May 27, 2023 at 5:38 PM
Thank you!! I’m getting it done as we speak, like 20 seconds at a time before pausing…but what I keep thinking of is the “Hell Joseon” of Lee Dan-ah’s Strongest Deliveryman!!!!
Seon-ha
May 28, 2023 at 12:09 PM
Oh, yeah, “Si-mok hair disappointment” confirmed—in other news, though, I’m so happy to see the crew come back on the screen one at a time!!! I’m glad I didn’t have to wait years.
I’ve definitely decided that Bae Doo-na’s long, straight hair can have all of my attention this season 😉
Seon-ha
May 26, 2023 at 6:44 AM
Bora! Deborah/True to Love thought for here: You suppose Tiffany deserves it’s PPL money back? Despite the omnipresence of the company’s signature color, those rings brought no one anything good 😉
Seon-ha
May 22, 2023 at 12:57 PM
Has anyone seen any writing here on this site or in any other *pleasant* corner of the internet interpreting the way that the pink filter in Call It Love gets stronger and weaker over the course of the drama? Upon reflection, I’m sure it’s meaningful and I think it goes in waves depending on who’s on screen, but I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t have the time or, frankly, the emotional stamina to watch it again to figure this out on my own…
lapislazulii
May 22, 2023 at 3:57 PM
There was a little bit of commentary peppered through some of the weekly recaps, and I vaguely remember a thread in particular for the last week recap! Someone had the idea of it being sort of representative of the female gaze of sorts and as as part of the subversion of stereotypical femininity in dramas.
Same with reddit, there were a few comments in the weekly threads for the drama where people were offering up their take on what the pink stands for (look at the ep 7-8, and 9-10 threads in particular!). I think the overarching idea from most people there was that the pink symbolised the leads’ depression/emotional rut/misery and it begins to clear up when they start to use each other as a space to heal and find happiness.
My own theory was that it had something to do with creating a twilight/dusk vibe (like you know when you get that pinkish quality to the sky sometimes right before the sun sets or rises) to mirror the fact that the leads were sort of suspended in time for the most part. And then it finally begins to dissipate when they’re able to find emotional freedom and begin to move forward in their lives, ‘further into the day’ if you will.
I’m not sure if it exists but I’d love to hear if the cinematographer or director have said anything to explain the creative choice behind the filter – it’s driving me insane not knowing exactly what they wanted BUT maybe the point (and fun of it) is that we all analyse it in different ways and they’re all valid!
Seon-ha
May 22, 2023 at 3:59 PM
Thank you so much! I’ll check it out…
Midnight
May 22, 2023 at 4:01 PM
This is one of the reasons I didn’t like the show. The pink filter kept changing strength and hue between every cut and angle. It was extremely tiring on my eye and my mind. And I did try to pinpoint a meaning for it to make it easier on myself, but it was no use. I found it completely random.
Collecting Oppas🥰 not counting anymore 😉
May 23, 2023 at 3:38 AM
Thats using Magenta Hue in Color grading (a technique in film making) which is used to give footage a certain style or certain meaning (on a subconscious level)
what i understood with my lil knowledge abt film making n color grading magenta hue is used mostly to give an ominous, unsettling feelings to viewers as if things arent as good as they are being projected on screen.
and in call it love by the time we reach the end the coloes were kind of back to normal bright sunshine look instead of this magenta tone… also based on the character on screen intensity of tone was changed to support that ominous in their lives.
though i was not a fan at start cause it gave me not so happy feeling while watching the drama but as it progressed i kind of figured out why it was used.
hope i was able to explain it to you as much as i could understand.
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 5:18 AM
Ah, future beanies, in hunting around I found this: https://www.dramabeans.com/members/leetennant/activity/1391878/!
Seon-ha
May 30, 2023 at 5:35 AM
Good grief, because of @leetennant’s post, I went to go and watch the opening scene again (agreed—its masterful) and heard, as if for the first time when it was not, that the radio was playing the fully-produced version of the song played in the last scene by Woo-Joo’s brother solely on a guitar. When I think back on this drama, I remember Sim Ji-Gu’s role frequently. He was like a sprite, inciting action and/or calming destruction when necessary.
WOW was there a lot of attention put into this drama.
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
May 30, 2023 at 2:20 PM
Yes there really was so much attention paid to every single shot.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the piece!
Seon-ha
May 22, 2023 at 5:02 AM
I love that it was his theft of her disability sticker for use on his car that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Cha Jung-sook. Much praise, also, for Kim Byung-chul’s portrayal of Seo In-ho…also aided by writing that places real humanity in this execrable excuse for a husband. I bet having empathy for him is gonna be divisive, but “Dr. Cha” is doing a great job of keeping my sympathy for so many of these flawed characters in what’s otherwise a pretty silly physical comedy.
Eazal
May 22, 2023 at 11:34 AM
I totally agree with you.
Seon-ha
May 21, 2023 at 7:54 AM
The comeuppance! The “all the genres” of show! The “all the genres” of music! The abrupt transitions from gut-wrenching sadness to ridiculous silliness!! The Agatha Christie reveals! The filial piety!
Seon-ha
May 21, 2023 at 7:56 AM
The gorgeous, gorgeous costuming! (I mean, even the villain’s potter-as-hobby work clothes!) The camera work! Not a single trope left unturned…and emphasized! I really enjoyed Joseon Attorney.
Seon-ha
May 20, 2023 at 6:08 PM
I thought…sure, I get why “Stranger/Forest of Secrets” is popular, but surely I won’t like it due to my preconceived notions of myself.
Wrong.
It took 90mins TOPS.