We shared with you last week the first part of our representation special, which focused on race and identity. If you missed it, it’s here!
We’re excited to share with you the second part today, which delves into issues of sexism and bodies, as well as a concluding discussion on where we see dramaland heading, how to exist in the fandom, and our hopes for the future on both fronts.
Catch the episode below, and also be sure to take a look at our extended shownotes, which contain detailed timestamps, references, and follow-up thoughts that we didn’t cover in the recording. (I’m also putting the timestamps into the comments below, so you can take a quick look at what we cover in detail!)
As I’ve been saying a lot for the last few weeks, please share our work as widely as you can. Part of why we felt we really had to do this is because we didn’t hear anyone else having this conversation, and the silence was at times deafening. Doing something this rigorous has been a huge undertaking for us, and we’re really grateful for the support and feedback we’ve received from the community. Thank you!
Tell us what you think of the episode, and if there’s anything we missed! We always welcome your thoughts!
Part 1: Sexism
00:03:00 The infantilization and/or sexualization of young female leads
00:03:32 Kim Yoo-jung & Ji Chang-wook in Backstreet Rookie
00:04:35 Kim So-hyun & Yoon Doo-joon in Radio Romance
00:05:30 The ickiness of waiting for child actresses to “turn legal”
00:09:47 Jung Eun-ji & the creepy second male lead in Reply 1997
00:22:05 Park Shin-hye & Kim Rae-won in Doctors
00:23:42 Drama representations vs. real-life relationships
00:30:14 Kim Go-eun and Gong Yoo in Goblin
00:37:20 But why are we often okay with noona romances with high school male leads?
Part 2: Body Image
00:43:20 Beauty standards and fat-shaming in Korean entertainment
00:46:52 Kim Sun-ah in My Name is Kim Sam-soon
00:51:00 Shin Min-ah in Oh My Venus
00:54:45 Ha Jae-sook in Perfume
00:57:55 My ID is Gangnam Beauty
01:02:56 Eating disorders, Seo In-guk’s struggle
01:05:11 Birth of a Beauty
01:05:52 Lee Young-ja in Hello Counselor
Part 3: Ableism
01:11:00 Fox Bride Star/Where Stars Land
01:19:50 The Secret Life of My Secretary
01:22:50 The Beauty Inside
01:24:35 Trauma and mental illness
Concluding thoughts
01:28:00 What makes a drama “too problematic to watch”?
01:32:00 The importance of creating space in fandom for these conversations
01:34:30 Who we valorize on TV, and how that affects society, and who’s responsible
01:40:47 Context, change, and conclusions
This is a very ambitious and very impressive undertaking! Thank you guys as always!
Also, Saya, I’m so sad to hear that you’re done writing for DB! 🙁 From INAR to You Who Forgot Poetry to The Lies Within, your recaps have always been so memorable to me! I love that you often view shows in a slightly different light than I do, which makes it more interesting to read, and you explain your thoughts so well and in such a captivating way. The best recappers (and writers in general) make me think, “Huh, I never considered that”, and I just love reading different perspectives from fellow drama fans. I’m going to miss your writing so much! But I’m glad that Dramas Over Flowers is still going strong so I’ll still get to hear plenty of your voice (literally and figuratively, hehe)! I know you’re active on twitter but every time I try getting into the twitter game I just end up disliking it more, and I really don’t find the platform conducive to meaty discussion, so I’ll definitely be frequenting the DOF website more often! What can I say, I’m an old internet soul who still prefers long-format blogging and forums. And, of course, I hope to still see you around DB as an average Beanie like the rest of us!
Speaking of former DB writers, are you guys still in touch with helcat? I loved when you had her as a guest on the podcast last year (that accent!) and I have fond memories of her Life on Mars recaps!
As a matter of fact, I am in regular touch with helen! We live in the same city so our drama gang usually tries to meet up every few months, but covid has changed things a bit recently. I'd love to bring her back for more episodes, but it's not always easy to schedule around busy RL lives! I made sure she saw your note and she is very <333
Thank you so much for your kind words about my work, I'm really so touched by them. Between you and me, my jjak sarang joke turned out to be a bit too real (much to my surprise, lol). I…will talk about it one day, but not yet.
In the meantime, it has always been readers who made my time here worth it, and I'll still be writing for you over at DOF. I'll be frank though, it won't be recaps or anything like it – recaps are supremely time- and labour-intensive, especially for me, so unless someone's paying me for them, they won't be happening XD
Don't worry about not doing twitter! I also hate it (saying I'm active there is putting it very generously haha), but it's easier than a 5K essay, haha!
I’m slowly making my way through this one and had to come agree with @festerfaster‘s exclamation that we don’t really know who showed up at the end of Where Stars Land 🤣. I was yelling the same thing as I listened. I remember only one drama that treated someone using a wheelchair as a fully respected human, Just Between Lovers.
You know I never even thought of it that way, but it’s such a good point re: WSL. And I’m really please to hear this about JBL! I know Anisa loves it and I’ve been meaning to watch it for ages – time to push it up the list! Thank you!
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Saya
August 13, 2020 at 5:25 AM
Hello again friends!
We shared with you last week the first part of our representation special, which focused on race and identity. If you missed it, it’s here!
We’re excited to share with you the second part today, which delves into issues of sexism and bodies, as well as a concluding discussion on where we see dramaland heading, how to exist in the fandom, and our hopes for the future on both fronts.
Catch the episode below, and also be sure to take a look at our extended shownotes, which contain detailed timestamps, references, and follow-up thoughts that we didn’t cover in the recording. (I’m also putting the timestamps into the comments below, so you can take a quick look at what we cover in detail!)
As I’ve been saying a lot for the last few weeks, please share our work as widely as you can. Part of why we felt we really had to do this is because we didn’t hear anyone else having this conversation, and the silence was at times deafening. Doing something this rigorous has been a huge undertaking for us, and we’re really grateful for the support and feedback we’ve received from the community. Thank you!
Tell us what you think of the episode, and if there’s anything we missed! We always welcome your thoughts!
Saya
August 13, 2020 at 5:28 AM
TIME STAMPS
Part 1: Sexism
00:03:00 The infantilization and/or sexualization of young female leads
00:03:32 Kim Yoo-jung & Ji Chang-wook in Backstreet Rookie
00:04:35 Kim So-hyun & Yoon Doo-joon in Radio Romance
00:05:30 The ickiness of waiting for child actresses to “turn legal”
00:09:47 Jung Eun-ji & the creepy second male lead in Reply 1997
00:22:05 Park Shin-hye & Kim Rae-won in Doctors
00:23:42 Drama representations vs. real-life relationships
00:30:14 Kim Go-eun and Gong Yoo in Goblin
00:37:20 But why are we often okay with noona romances with high school male leads?
Part 2: Body Image
00:43:20 Beauty standards and fat-shaming in Korean entertainment
00:46:52 Kim Sun-ah in My Name is Kim Sam-soon
00:51:00 Shin Min-ah in Oh My Venus
00:54:45 Ha Jae-sook in Perfume
00:57:55 My ID is Gangnam Beauty
01:02:56 Eating disorders, Seo In-guk’s struggle
01:05:11 Birth of a Beauty
01:05:52 Lee Young-ja in Hello Counselor
Part 3: Ableism
01:11:00 Fox Bride Star/Where Stars Land
01:19:50 The Secret Life of My Secretary
01:22:50 The Beauty Inside
01:24:35 Trauma and mental illness
Concluding thoughts
01:28:00 What makes a drama “too problematic to watch”?
01:32:00 The importance of creating space in fandom for these conversations
01:34:30 Who we valorize on TV, and how that affects society, and who’s responsible
01:40:47 Context, change, and conclusions
mugyuljoie is preciousss
August 13, 2020 at 12:54 PM
I’ve been looking forward to this! Thank you.
Saya
August 13, 2020 at 2:56 PM
Thank *you*! We’d love to hear your thoughts when you finish!
mugyuljoie is preciousss
August 13, 2020 at 4:58 PM
Comment was deleted
mindy
August 13, 2020 at 6:21 PM
This is a very ambitious and very impressive undertaking! Thank you guys as always!
Also, Saya, I’m so sad to hear that you’re done writing for DB! 🙁 From INAR to You Who Forgot Poetry to The Lies Within, your recaps have always been so memorable to me! I love that you often view shows in a slightly different light than I do, which makes it more interesting to read, and you explain your thoughts so well and in such a captivating way. The best recappers (and writers in general) make me think, “Huh, I never considered that”, and I just love reading different perspectives from fellow drama fans. I’m going to miss your writing so much! But I’m glad that Dramas Over Flowers is still going strong so I’ll still get to hear plenty of your voice (literally and figuratively, hehe)! I know you’re active on twitter but every time I try getting into the twitter game I just end up disliking it more, and I really don’t find the platform conducive to meaty discussion, so I’ll definitely be frequenting the DOF website more often! What can I say, I’m an old internet soul who still prefers long-format blogging and forums. And, of course, I hope to still see you around DB as an average Beanie like the rest of us!
Speaking of former DB writers, are you guys still in touch with helcat? I loved when you had her as a guest on the podcast last year (that accent!) and I have fond memories of her Life on Mars recaps!
mindy
August 13, 2020 at 6:22 PM
Oh god, that wall of text… I definitely need to learn paragraph spacing. Sorry!
Saya
August 17, 2020 at 4:36 AM
never! it is fine!
Saya
August 17, 2020 at 4:35 AM
Aww mindy <3
As a matter of fact, I am in regular touch with helen! We live in the same city so our drama gang usually tries to meet up every few months, but covid has changed things a bit recently. I'd love to bring her back for more episodes, but it's not always easy to schedule around busy RL lives! I made sure she saw your note and she is very <333
Thank you so much for your kind words about my work, I'm really so touched by them. Between you and me, my jjak sarang joke turned out to be a bit too real (much to my surprise, lol). I…will talk about it one day, but not yet.
In the meantime, it has always been readers who made my time here worth it, and I'll still be writing for you over at DOF. I'll be frank though, it won't be recaps or anything like it – recaps are supremely time- and labour-intensive, especially for me, so unless someone's paying me for them, they won't be happening XD
Don't worry about not doing twitter! I also hate it (saying I'm active there is putting it very generously haha), but it's easier than a 5K essay, haha!
mugyuljoie is preciousss
August 24, 2020 at 8:59 AM
I’m slowly making my way through this one and had to come agree with @festerfaster‘s exclamation that we don’t really know who showed up at the end of Where Stars Land 🤣. I was yelling the same thing as I listened. I remember only one drama that treated someone using a wheelchair as a fully respected human, Just Between Lovers.
Saya
August 25, 2020 at 4:24 AM
You know I never even thought of it that way, but it’s such a good point re: WSL. And I’m really please to hear this about JBL! I know Anisa loves it and I’ve been meaning to watch it for ages – time to push it up the list! Thank you!