Only started watching this last night, will come back to read your thoughts. I like the first three episodes, intense and setting the scene and characters very well. This is a Lee Jung-Jae like never seen before but he nails it perfectly – pathetic but sympathetic all rolled into one.
I’m still on ep 6, will come back later for the rest of your post. That first part about the Japanese style vs. Korean sensibility was a nice explanation why I think the drama wasn’t a hit with some people. I like it so far. I’m not impartial, I’m into dramas or movies about games even when they are not great and Squid manages to be really good sometimes. Mainly, when it succeeds mashing its unlikable heroes with the extreme situation they are in. Yesterday I was trying to understand why ep 2 worked so well while ep 6 dragged and felt corny and out of place. People had said it was the opposite but I felt everything in the second ep was needed, it felt refreshing that they could choose to leave and at the same time it answers the question of why anyone would go back to that, while ep 6 had some characters behaving out of character and some things seemed rushed and manipulative. Also, that cop is weird, he should be scared out of his mind and he acts like it’s another day on the job kk.
I’m back and wondering if the writer was switched. The eps went kind of downhill after 5, ep 6 wasn’t a fluke, it was a new direction. The drama decided to have big emotional moments and made some dumb choices to get them, instead of sentiment and cleverness it delivered some cheap twists and superficial dramatics. I’m also probably less willing to forget it’s flaws because of the silly open ending. I like open endings but only when they follow the natural direction of the story.
Those Vips were cartoon villains, didn’t match the realistic contestants, and no one would pay to be there just to leave a game for some quick sex with a random guy. The brother plot was useless, it would have been better if he had been a regular participant. Why have Front Man kill his own brother and not explain anything? I can imagine a dozen good explanations but it still felt lazy, either go there or don’t. The same for the creator, the Old Man and Minyeo were exagerated, larger characters, they should have been there for colorful supporting and instead had too much time. Where’s the fair decision in that vote if the owner made the choice for the real players? The bridge game,unlike the others, was entirely about chance, and the stupid explosion risked the survivors, also something the other games had not done. The differences and similarities between Gi-Hun and SangWoo were the best of the show in these last eps, it should have explored this more and forgot about silly twists. I could not believe GH would have risked his life in the fifth game just to protect the old man but believed him when he refused to take that last step over the squid lines. When GH finally won I thought we would get to have some resolution on his arc, there were many possibilitie. I wanted him to find out he could not become a good father only because he had plenty of money, that helping Cheol and SW’s mother would not be easy, but instead the boy was dropped like a sack of potatoes with a bag full of money. We don’t know what happened to any of them. I liked that guilt prevented him from using the money but even that could have been better explored, loved the GY cameo but it was ridiculous to have GH leave his family again to go chase some ghost gang, unless the idea was to say he was unable to learn how make better choices but it felt more like he became this red haired avenger.
I loved your take on the criticism on capitalism but I think this drama could have made a much better exploration on the theme.
I think if you take the game as an analogy of capitalism then some of the decisions make more sense. The brother, for example, won the game and then embraced his new role within the system as someone who gets to enforce the rules rather than having to live by them. And the game’s lessons – that establishing a higher status in the system is more important than anything, including your own humanity – is represented by him even killing his own brother.
As for GH, what he learnt from the game is the lesson he’d already learned – that there was no point in playing because even if you did win you’d still lose anything that was important. That’s why he let his daughter go to the US – because he was still refusing to play. And that’s why he refused to use the money. Guilt didn’t factor into it.
The thing is though, that he was wrong. There are two types of people in this system – those who can choose to play the game and those that are above the game. And by winning, he was no longer one of the players. He was one of the ones above the game. By choosing not to play, he was now as bad as the VIPs – walking past that drunk freezing to death on the street and refusing to help. So instead of continuing to go on in his life refusing to get involved in anything, refusing to play, he instead chose to use his new position to help people. He had a new responsibility and for once in his life he’s decided to fulfil that responsibility.
Yes, that’s a nice explanation for the Front Man, I had imagined something like that. He seemed to really believe in that twisted game morality. Still, why would someone who would donate a kidney to his brother make him worried? Why pretend to be poor? It’s too many questions to ask the audience to come up with answers.
I thought GH already has issues with guilt even before the game. All that talk about the company strike? I was waiting for the traditional kdrama flashback to show us how he believed what happened to that other worker was somehow his fault. And that and the lack of jobs sent him spinning toward gambling, which led to the guy we met. It never happened but the actor made me believe it kk.
Anyway, I think he kind of imagined himself as a victim of chance when the game begun but later he did have a hand in the murder of the Old Man and won the fight with SW even if he refused the prize later, so yes, I think he was disappointed in people but he also included himself there, so that would lead to guilt, and a lot of nightmares. If instead of craziness it was only a refusal to play he would have to be a hypocrite, waiting a year before helping Cheol and SW’s mother just because he is pretending to be a zombie. Even if zombie style was rather nice for that guy kk.
I do agree btw that all of this could have been done better. I think the drama said what it needed to say but because half of it was deeply metaphorical shorthand and the other was character study, the two halves clashed and confused people.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
September 20, 2021 at 11:53 PM
Equality and Equity in Squid Game
PYC
September 21, 2021 at 4:22 AM
Only started watching this last night, will come back to read your thoughts. I like the first three episodes, intense and setting the scene and characters very well. This is a Lee Jung-Jae like never seen before but he nails it perfectly – pathetic but sympathetic all rolled into one.
Lixie
September 21, 2021 at 6:42 AM
I’m still on ep 6, will come back later for the rest of your post. That first part about the Japanese style vs. Korean sensibility was a nice explanation why I think the drama wasn’t a hit with some people. I like it so far. I’m not impartial, I’m into dramas or movies about games even when they are not great and Squid manages to be really good sometimes. Mainly, when it succeeds mashing its unlikable heroes with the extreme situation they are in. Yesterday I was trying to understand why ep 2 worked so well while ep 6 dragged and felt corny and out of place. People had said it was the opposite but I felt everything in the second ep was needed, it felt refreshing that they could choose to leave and at the same time it answers the question of why anyone would go back to that, while ep 6 had some characters behaving out of character and some things seemed rushed and manipulative. Also, that cop is weird, he should be scared out of his mind and he acts like it’s another day on the job kk.
Lixie
September 22, 2021 at 7:26 AM
I’m back and wondering if the writer was switched. The eps went kind of downhill after 5, ep 6 wasn’t a fluke, it was a new direction. The drama decided to have big emotional moments and made some dumb choices to get them, instead of sentiment and cleverness it delivered some cheap twists and superficial dramatics. I’m also probably less willing to forget it’s flaws because of the silly open ending. I like open endings but only when they follow the natural direction of the story.
Those Vips were cartoon villains, didn’t match the realistic contestants, and no one would pay to be there just to leave a game for some quick sex with a random guy. The brother plot was useless, it would have been better if he had been a regular participant. Why have Front Man kill his own brother and not explain anything? I can imagine a dozen good explanations but it still felt lazy, either go there or don’t. The same for the creator, the Old Man and Minyeo were exagerated, larger characters, they should have been there for colorful supporting and instead had too much time. Where’s the fair decision in that vote if the owner made the choice for the real players? The bridge game,unlike the others, was entirely about chance, and the stupid explosion risked the survivors, also something the other games had not done. The differences and similarities between Gi-Hun and SangWoo were the best of the show in these last eps, it should have explored this more and forgot about silly twists. I could not believe GH would have risked his life in the fifth game just to protect the old man but believed him when he refused to take that last step over the squid lines. When GH finally won I thought we would get to have some resolution on his arc, there were many possibilitie. I wanted him to find out he could not become a good father only because he had plenty of money, that helping Cheol and SW’s mother would not be easy, but instead the boy was dropped like a sack of potatoes with a bag full of money. We don’t know what happened to any of them. I liked that guilt prevented him from using the money but even that could have been better explored, loved the GY cameo but it was ridiculous to have GH leave his family again to go chase some ghost gang, unless the idea was to say he was unable to learn how make better choices but it felt more like he became this red haired avenger.
I loved your take on the criticism on capitalism but I think this drama could have made a much better exploration on the theme.
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
September 22, 2021 at 4:02 PM
I think if you take the game as an analogy of capitalism then some of the decisions make more sense. The brother, for example, won the game and then embraced his new role within the system as someone who gets to enforce the rules rather than having to live by them. And the game’s lessons – that establishing a higher status in the system is more important than anything, including your own humanity – is represented by him even killing his own brother.
As for GH, what he learnt from the game is the lesson he’d already learned – that there was no point in playing because even if you did win you’d still lose anything that was important. That’s why he let his daughter go to the US – because he was still refusing to play. And that’s why he refused to use the money. Guilt didn’t factor into it.
The thing is though, that he was wrong. There are two types of people in this system – those who can choose to play the game and those that are above the game. And by winning, he was no longer one of the players. He was one of the ones above the game. By choosing not to play, he was now as bad as the VIPs – walking past that drunk freezing to death on the street and refusing to help. So instead of continuing to go on in his life refusing to get involved in anything, refusing to play, he instead chose to use his new position to help people. He had a new responsibility and for once in his life he’s decided to fulfil that responsibility.
Lixie
September 22, 2021 at 7:10 PM
Yes, that’s a nice explanation for the Front Man, I had imagined something like that. He seemed to really believe in that twisted game morality. Still, why would someone who would donate a kidney to his brother make him worried? Why pretend to be poor? It’s too many questions to ask the audience to come up with answers.
I thought GH already has issues with guilt even before the game. All that talk about the company strike? I was waiting for the traditional kdrama flashback to show us how he believed what happened to that other worker was somehow his fault. And that and the lack of jobs sent him spinning toward gambling, which led to the guy we met. It never happened but the actor made me believe it kk.
Anyway, I think he kind of imagined himself as a victim of chance when the game begun but later he did have a hand in the murder of the Old Man and won the fight with SW even if he refused the prize later, so yes, I think he was disappointed in people but he also included himself there, so that would lead to guilt, and a lot of nightmares. If instead of craziness it was only a refusal to play he would have to be a hypocrite, waiting a year before helping Cheol and SW’s mother just because he is pretending to be a zombie. Even if zombie style was rather nice for that guy kk.
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent, Dame Judi
September 22, 2021 at 4:03 PM
I do agree btw that all of this could have been done better. I think the drama said what it needed to say but because half of it was deeply metaphorical shorthand and the other was character study, the two halves clashed and confused people.