Diary entry re My Dearest on Saturday, November 11, 2023. Episode 18 aired last night ; I could see the English subtitled version this morning on Viki Europe.
Random comment alongside: Today, November 11th, is also the start of the carnival season in my neck of the woods : 11.11 at 11 AM … People started drinking at 8 AM [ sad smiley ] because the date falls onto a Saturday … only a few are genuinely and happily celebrating with little or no alcohol …
Now, finally, I am beginning to understand the overall procedure of the writer, how she laid out the storytelling and why she laid it out the way she did.
There have been, so far, two large parts to the drama I could not match up flawlessly :
the epic love story with its archetypical and also very modern and mature (in terms of relationship) undertones — and the historic events portrayed : such as the war events themselves, Joseon court’s and the King’s reactions, the social and political fallout for Joseon people after the war, be they court officials in Joseon, Shenyang Hall in Mukden/Shenyang/Shimyang, or the yanban, peasants and nobi, both in Qing and Joseon, and the reasonings and views of the New Masters in Town, the Qing and their needs from Joseon while in the process of overthrowing the 200-year long stable Ming Empire.
There had been early on a concept for the drama published by MBC on the drama’s website. It focused on the events between a man and a woman —so, the love story. When I put it through Google Translate at the time, it appeared still completely cryptic to me. Obviously, translating Hangul with a machine-learning AI, is only a crude way of transposing the Korean language into English ; there is always a lot of interpretation needed —almost impossible for someone who does not have a good command of the language. Korean —as Japanese— seems to be a largely context-driven language, way more so than European languages, where grammatical structure and individual words are already laying out where the language-logic is heading. (However, please also note my previous comment on the poverty of the English language (or all other European languages) when it comes to «(E)Valuing» (by naming) what kind of «Love» we are talking about exactly … see here: https://www.dramabeans.com/2023/11/my-dearest-episode-17/#comment-4136564
So— … when MBC published the following text as concept for the drama, I was lost, scratching my head : What DO they mean? Even after studying the writer’s comments in her interview from March 2023, I did not understand much more, while watching the drama. So, now, in the penultimate episodes, I am starting to get a better sense … and I will attempt an interpretative translation of the concept, and explain briefly thereafter.
내 인생에 사랑은 없다, 당당하게 비혼을 선언한 사내가 내 남자는 내 손으로 쟁취하리라, 야심차게 선언한 여인을 만나 벼락같은 (짝)사랑에 빠진다. 하지만 때는 병자년, 조선이 청군의 말굽에 짓밟히는 병화를 겪으며 여자의 운명이 급류에 휘말려 떠밀려가고, 흘러가는 여인 따라, 사내의 운명도 걷잡을 수 없이 휘청거린다. 세상 모든 일에 자신만만했으나 자신이 사랑에 빠지면 어떻게 변하는지도 몰랐던 어리석은 사내, 세상 모든 사내의 마음을 사로잡고서도 자신이 진짜 연모하는 사람이 누군지 깨닫지 못했던 어리석은 여인. 사랑에 한없이 어리석었던 이 사내와 여인, 과연 사랑을 이룰 수 있을까? 아니, 살아남을 수 있을까?
This is my attempt at a «smoothed out» (slightly interpretative) English translation :
There is no love in my life, [she confirms]. [Yet at the same time,] there is a man who proudly announces he doesn’t intend to get married.
I will choose my man myself ! she declares [defiantly].
He, now, meets an ambitious woman and falls in love like lightening.
But it is Pyeonga’s year [the year of the Fire Rat],
And Joseon is suffering from war, being trampled upon by the horses’ hooves of the Qing army.
The woman’s fate is caught in the torrent and washed away,
[yet] following the woman’s flow,
her man’s fate also spirals out of control.
I was confident in everything in the world, [he says]
But I didn’t even know how things change when I fall in love!
Foolish man!
Even though she captures the heart of every man crossing her path,
She did not realise whom she really loved.
Foolish woman!
This man and this woman who were infinitely foolish with love,
Can love really be achieved?
No— will they be able to survive?
My beanie friends, you might agree, that this concept can mean a lot of things ; paired with the writer’s declaration of using the «Gone With the Wind» narrative for her story, I was not the much wiser— as it seemed, for several episodes, that she was using the Selznick film as a kind of carbon copy for her story.
However, as the drama moved along, and especially after the hiatus from Part 1 to Part 2 —and the extremely confusing timeline at the beginning of Part 2— I finally realised what she had meant.
I am referring to her explanation she gave in her interview that there are a lot of difficult topics in Korean history, the Pyjeongahoran ( the Second Manchu Invasion ) being only one of them, but that it could be handled by using an (epic) love narrative as the connecting element for all plot lines ( such a narrative Mitchell had used for «Gone With the Wind», however with way less plot lines connecting, and, in the end, in quite a different manner ).
My impression is that the writer has largely succeeded with her concept and her intention.
Now what remains to be seen is the answer to the last question in the concept : Will they be able to survive?
Foolish, indeed! But aren’t we all are when young?
“there are a lot of difficult topics in Korean history….but that it could be handled by using an (epic) love narrative…”
Do you get the feeling that by not showing us some parts she actually is making a statement in her known subtle way and all of it disguised and packaged in one of the most beautiful love story?
@kodra, I just watched a download I have (w/o subtitles at the moment) of EP 19 … « subtle way » indeed!! On the personal story, certainly ; on the political story, maybe also for reasons of practicality and cost ; also, what would if have added to her and our understanding of the historic events if she would have staged a filmed meeting between the Crown Prince and the Jesuit priest in Beijing? — It would have, in my view, just opened another avenue, and not one she wanted to go down. This way now, she has kept the story tight, I think, without loosing the essential element post-Manchu War, about how, in Joseon, the Joseon people reacted, and how the Court reacted to these events. After all it is a Korean drama, attempting to be «objective» about the Korean viewpoint and interpretation without loosing sight of, for example, the Manchu point of view. THAT is very nicely done, in my opinion. Having seen so many episodes now, I know @sicarius had said that there were some unnecessary bits, but looking back, I do not think so. It all makes sense to me right now.
Also, I think the actor who plays King Injo deserves a lot of praise! Also the actors who play some of the senior court officials. They were support roles, but excellently portrayed. I also do not agree with @kiara that Sohyeon is portrayed weakly here. It is correct in my view that the fictionalised character of Jang Hyeon is getting a lot of the praise for decisions and actions, but it is also true in my opinion, that the Crown Prince did have advisors to whom he listened, and did grow because of what he experienced. The latter is clearly visible in My Dearest throughout.
I agree about the actor playing Injo, as most of them did a great job. You should see the crown princess today, magnificant performance, I was moved and really felt her pain.
I think the writer portrayed very well the love they had for eachother, the fact that they did do as much as they could ( or what were actually permited by the qings and Injo to do) to help those people and to prevent another war, even if that meant also listening to advice given by a man that had influence with the qings. There is no doubt why he stayed there for so long, why everyone bribed him and got promoted once he returned. Sohyeon was weak and easy to influence and that is why Injo and the westerners were afraid of him.
The story starts with documents that should not have been written and, by that, a true history that has not been revealed.
It’s ok to disagree. I enjoy this the most—sharing what we know and our opinions like adults. This is why I love watching sageuks. Unfortunately, most of the sageuk club are no longer interested in the show, and I don’t blame them, but I’m here for the bitter end, even if I have to skim through it.
@angelshadows50, I don’t have a problem with Sohyeon, the actor. He is fantastic! I have a problem with downgrading him in Qing, but I understand that he is not the lead character—Sohyeon was in direct conflict with the Qing officials, especially going head to head with Inggūldai. There are many unofficial records of him since not much was written about him except in Injo’s sillok.
Yes, he did have advisors, but that doesn’t mean he was a sitting duck in Qing like in this drama.
@kiara, can you get me links or references to these unofficial records for Sohyeon when you have time? It’s not urgent, … really only when you get the time to send me links or lit. references. I want to follow up on him at some point in the future, because what I have seen so far is quite disparate. Thx. a million 🙂 🙂
@angelshadows50,
Most of what I have is from a decade ago, before “Cruel Palace” came out, based mainly on Concubine Jo.
Unfortunately, I didn’t keep the links, but there were references from The Seungjeongwon and articles that didn’t make the cut in the official Annals. There were also the Journals of Korean History Studies conducted by local university scholars, but they stopped translating them into English, so I lost all that info.
I’ll try to find links, but I’m sure we have more information now than we had 10-20 years ago. Even Wikipedia didn’t have much on K-history, but they do now.
I love learning from Korean sources back in the day. Now, we have a lot of studies from outside sources, which is excellent, but most are not well-versed, and you can tell when you read articles from an outsider looking in compared to the local references.
Let me know when you start searching, and I’ll do it with you.
On the political story I believe is more that she didn’t want to go that way, I feel there is not a that way at all in some korean circles and that if even there was a meeting, it did not mean anything to CP or his tragic end. I couldn’t find published articles that cite written sources confirming that Injo thought the captives were part of the CP’s rebelious army. Maybe there are but didn’t have the time to go on the rabbit hole. I did find an article though that explains the Sim Kiwŏn’s Revolt and I understood better Inju’s paranoia with the CP. It appears that the qings wanted to swap Injo with the CP and Injo among other things. The real life JH interpreter appears in the article again showing how influencial he was with the qings.
I also feel that she needed to show all the work the real life interpreter did at that time, so the whole S-city arc was used for that together with GC captive crises. She needed them to be single and I understand that it was boring to many but she really wanted to know of him. I concentrated more on GC and didn’t realize it at that time.
angelshadows50
November 11, 2023 at 4:59 AM
Diary entry re My Dearest on Saturday, November 11, 2023. Episode 18 aired last night ; I could see the English subtitled version this morning on Viki Europe.
Random comment alongside: Today, November 11th, is also the start of the carnival season in my neck of the woods : 11.11 at 11 AM … People started drinking at 8 AM [ sad smiley ] because the date falls onto a Saturday … only a few are genuinely and happily celebrating with little or no alcohol …
Now, finally, I am beginning to understand the overall procedure of the writer, how she laid out the storytelling and why she laid it out the way she did.
There have been, so far, two large parts to the drama I could not match up flawlessly :
the epic love story with its archetypical and also very modern and mature (in terms of relationship) undertones — and the historic events portrayed : such as the war events themselves, Joseon court’s and the King’s reactions, the social and political fallout for Joseon people after the war, be they court officials in Joseon, Shenyang Hall in Mukden/Shenyang/Shimyang, or the yanban, peasants and nobi, both in Qing and Joseon, and the reasonings and views of the New Masters in Town, the Qing and their needs from Joseon while in the process of overthrowing the 200-year long stable Ming Empire.
There had been early on a concept for the drama published by MBC on the drama’s website. It focused on the events between a man and a woman —so, the love story. When I put it through Google Translate at the time, it appeared still completely cryptic to me. Obviously, translating Hangul with a machine-learning AI, is only a crude way of transposing the Korean language into English ; there is always a lot of interpretation needed —almost impossible for someone who does not have a good command of the language. Korean —as Japanese— seems to be a largely context-driven language, way more so than European languages, where grammatical structure and individual words are already laying out where the language-logic is heading. (However, please also note my previous comment on the poverty of the English language (or all other European languages) when it comes to «(E)Valuing» (by naming) what kind of «Love» we are talking about exactly … see here: https://www.dramabeans.com/2023/11/my-dearest-episode-17/#comment-4136564
So— … when MBC published the following text as concept for the drama, I was lost, scratching my head : What DO they mean? Even after studying the writer’s comments in her interview from March 2023, I did not understand much more, while watching the drama. So, now, in the penultimate episodes, I am starting to get a better sense … and I will attempt an interpretative translation of the concept, and explain briefly thereafter.
One can find the concept here : https://program.imbc.com/Concept/mydearest.
Or if you go to the Korean website [ https://program.imbc.com/mydearest ], it’s under the first tab «프로그램 소개 » [Program Introduction].
Here is the Hangul text :
내 인생에 사랑은 없다, 당당하게 비혼을 선언한 사내가 내 남자는 내 손으로 쟁취하리라, 야심차게 선언한 여인을 만나 벼락같은 (짝)사랑에 빠진다. 하지만 때는 병자년, 조선이 청군의 말굽에 짓밟히는 병화를 겪으며 여자의 운명이 급류에 휘말려 떠밀려가고, 흘러가는 여인 따라, 사내의 운명도 걷잡을 수 없이 휘청거린다. 세상 모든 일에 자신만만했으나 자신이 사랑에 빠지면 어떻게 변하는지도 몰랐던 어리석은 사내, 세상 모든 사내의 마음을 사로잡고서도 자신이 진짜 연모하는 사람이 누군지 깨닫지 못했던 어리석은 여인. 사랑에 한없이 어리석었던 이 사내와 여인, 과연 사랑을 이룰 수 있을까? 아니, 살아남을 수 있을까?
This is my attempt at a «smoothed out» (slightly interpretative) English translation :
There is no love in my life, [she confirms]. [Yet at the same time,] there is a man who proudly announces he doesn’t intend to get married.
I will choose my man myself ! she declares [defiantly].
He, now, meets an ambitious woman and falls in love like lightening.
But it is Pyeonga’s year [the year of the Fire Rat],
And Joseon is suffering from war, being trampled upon by the horses’ hooves of the Qing army.
The woman’s fate is caught in the torrent and washed away,
[yet] following the woman’s flow,
her man’s fate also spirals out of control.
I was confident in everything in the world, [he says]
But I didn’t even know how things change when I fall in love!
Foolish man!
Even though she captures the heart of every man crossing her path,
She did not realise whom she really loved.
Foolish woman!
This man and this woman who were infinitely foolish with love,
Can love really be achieved?
No— will they be able to survive?
My beanie friends, you might agree, that this concept can mean a lot of things ; paired with the writer’s declaration of using the «Gone With the Wind» narrative for her story, I was not the much wiser— as it seemed, for several episodes, that she was using the Selznick film as a kind of carbon copy for her story.
However, as the drama moved along, and especially after the hiatus from Part 1 to Part 2 —and the extremely confusing timeline at the beginning of Part 2— I finally realised what she had meant.
I am referring to her explanation she gave in her interview that there are a lot of difficult topics in Korean history, the Pyjeongahoran ( the Second Manchu Invasion ) being only one of them, but that it could be handled by using an (epic) love narrative as the connecting element for all plot lines ( such a narrative Mitchell had used for «Gone With the Wind», however with way less plot lines connecting, and, in the end, in quite a different manner ).
My impression is that the writer has largely succeeded with her concept and her intention.
Now what remains to be seen is the answer to the last question in the concept : Will they be able to survive?
Kodra aka Qanon something
November 11, 2023 at 8:57 AM
Foolish, indeed! But aren’t we all are when young?
“there are a lot of difficult topics in Korean history….but that it could be handled by using an (epic) love narrative…”
Do you get the feeling that by not showing us some parts she actually is making a statement in her known subtle way and all of it disguised and packaged in one of the most beautiful love story?
angelshadows50
November 11, 2023 at 9:43 AM
@kodra, I just watched a download I have (w/o subtitles at the moment) of EP 19 … « subtle way » indeed!! On the personal story, certainly ; on the political story, maybe also for reasons of practicality and cost ; also, what would if have added to her and our understanding of the historic events if she would have staged a filmed meeting between the Crown Prince and the Jesuit priest in Beijing? — It would have, in my view, just opened another avenue, and not one she wanted to go down. This way now, she has kept the story tight, I think, without loosing the essential element post-Manchu War, about how, in Joseon, the Joseon people reacted, and how the Court reacted to these events. After all it is a Korean drama, attempting to be «objective» about the Korean viewpoint and interpretation without loosing sight of, for example, the Manchu point of view. THAT is very nicely done, in my opinion. Having seen so many episodes now, I know @sicarius had said that there were some unnecessary bits, but looking back, I do not think so. It all makes sense to me right now.
angelshadows50
November 11, 2023 at 9:51 AM
Also, I think the actor who plays King Injo deserves a lot of praise! Also the actors who play some of the senior court officials. They were support roles, but excellently portrayed. I also do not agree with @kiara that Sohyeon is portrayed weakly here. It is correct in my view that the fictionalised character of Jang Hyeon is getting a lot of the praise for decisions and actions, but it is also true in my opinion, that the Crown Prince did have advisors to whom he listened, and did grow because of what he experienced. The latter is clearly visible in My Dearest throughout.
Kodra aka Qanon something
November 11, 2023 at 10:45 AM
I agree about the actor playing Injo, as most of them did a great job. You should see the crown princess today, magnificant performance, I was moved and really felt her pain.
I think the writer portrayed very well the love they had for eachother, the fact that they did do as much as they could ( or what were actually permited by the qings and Injo to do) to help those people and to prevent another war, even if that meant also listening to advice given by a man that had influence with the qings. There is no doubt why he stayed there for so long, why everyone bribed him and got promoted once he returned. Sohyeon was weak and easy to influence and that is why Injo and the westerners were afraid of him.
The story starts with documents that should not have been written and, by that, a true history that has not been revealed.
kiara
November 11, 2023 at 12:22 PM
It’s ok to disagree. I enjoy this the most—sharing what we know and our opinions like adults. This is why I love watching sageuks. Unfortunately, most of the sageuk club are no longer interested in the show, and I don’t blame them, but I’m here for the bitter end, even if I have to skim through it.
@angelshadows50, I don’t have a problem with Sohyeon, the actor. He is fantastic! I have a problem with downgrading him in Qing, but I understand that he is not the lead character—Sohyeon was in direct conflict with the Qing officials, especially going head to head with Inggūldai. There are many unofficial records of him since not much was written about him except in Injo’s sillok.
Yes, he did have advisors, but that doesn’t mean he was a sitting duck in Qing like in this drama.
angelshadows50
November 11, 2023 at 1:27 PM
@kiara, can you get me links or references to these unofficial records for Sohyeon when you have time? It’s not urgent, … really only when you get the time to send me links or lit. references. I want to follow up on him at some point in the future, because what I have seen so far is quite disparate. Thx. a million 🙂 🙂
kiara
November 12, 2023 at 5:58 AM
@angelshadows50,
Most of what I have is from a decade ago, before “Cruel Palace” came out, based mainly on Concubine Jo.
Unfortunately, I didn’t keep the links, but there were references from The Seungjeongwon and articles that didn’t make the cut in the official Annals. There were also the Journals of Korean History Studies conducted by local university scholars, but they stopped translating them into English, so I lost all that info.
I’ll try to find links, but I’m sure we have more information now than we had 10-20 years ago. Even Wikipedia didn’t have much on K-history, but they do now.
I love learning from Korean sources back in the day. Now, we have a lot of studies from outside sources, which is excellent, but most are not well-versed, and you can tell when you read articles from an outsider looking in compared to the local references.
Let me know when you start searching, and I’ll do it with you.
Kodra aka Qanon something
November 11, 2023 at 10:20 AM
On the political story I believe is more that she didn’t want to go that way, I feel there is not a that way at all in some korean circles and that if even there was a meeting, it did not mean anything to CP or his tragic end. I couldn’t find published articles that cite written sources confirming that Injo thought the captives were part of the CP’s rebelious army. Maybe there are but didn’t have the time to go on the rabbit hole. I did find an article though that explains the Sim Kiwŏn’s Revolt and I understood better Inju’s paranoia with the CP. It appears that the qings wanted to swap Injo with the CP and Injo among other things. The real life JH interpreter appears in the article again showing how influencial he was with the qings.
I also feel that she needed to show all the work the real life interpreter did at that time, so the whole S-city arc was used for that together with GC captive crises. She needed them to be single and I understand that it was boring to many but she really wanted to know of him. I concentrated more on GC and didn’t realize it at that time.
https://ijkh.khistory.org/upload/pdf/12-01.pdf