On the vocals, I think BTS tends to do this sometimes – the voices are layered? Like the same vocal is mixed twice or more times to make it stronger? I dunno how to say this – and I might be TOTALLY wrong.

Yeah I actually have a couple of songs I like in Her too. Namely, Her. And Seesaw. Hahaha

I read your b-sides article and an article on LY not being coherent (was that you as well?). Both were amazing to read and really brought together many of my own scattered thoughts. Thanks purple teapot! 😊

And the lack of coherence is at its peak here. Frankly there’s nothing Jungian or philosophical about it. Except for the intro, Persona which was very promising.

With that, yes. With its many Western pop producers – this album is western pop for the western market.

May I also add that I’m feeling the same about BTS’s promotions. They haven’t done any Korean variety – a staple for idols – since knowing bros when LY:Her came out in Sept 2017. I know variety is hard but it feels like a snub. Like they’re bigger &, better now. And they’ve got bigger fish to fry.

@greenfields Yes, the LY piece was by me too! I wanted to dive into why I felt so let down by the whole series.

And yes, that’s why I’m sad about the title track. They’ve yet again landed on conceptual gold–the theme of personas has a lot of potential to be thoughtfully explored, even if in a fun way (like RM’s many costumes in the intro trailer). But they’ve yet again failed to exploit the potential of the concept.

About the variety, I have to say that Big Hit’s marketing strategy for BTS has always veered away from standards in the scene. They don’t usually do television appearances, even during the HYYH/ Wings period. But you’re right that they are neglecting their domestic market, and it’s a very dangerous move. They used to go on Korean radio talk shows more, to promote their music and also play fun quiz games. The DJs were often very insightful.

I have a friend who’s working in Korea and she’s an Exo-L. She says that the difference between SM’s effort to secure Exo’s domestic market and BH’s effort with BTS is vast, and it’ll cost them in the long run, because after all they are a Korean group whose bread and butter is the Korean music industry. I’ve also seen Korean fans on my tweet feed lament that Big Hit is starting to neglect them.

” the fact that they’re trying to capitalise on their success in the US is putting pressure on their artistic process ” I have thought this since DNA but nobody really listened me back then lol.

Also I wish I could upvote your second comment twice.

This is the problem. A classic case of too much fame and attention ruining something good. At this point I’m not convinced BTS’s producers are getting the right feedback – who okayed this album? OR
was money the only goal? Get the next series out before the hyungs start enlisting and earn as much as possible.

@sicarius @purpleteapot – I saw the credits somewhere and it seems there are TOO MANY people involved in each song. Plus Bang PD, Pdogg have fewer credits, there is no Slow Rabbit and one mention of Adora at the very end of the line. I don’t like the look of that – I kNow BTS are marketed as self produced / contributing to the writing of the music but this is too much (or.too little?) – even the in house producers don’t have much to do with it, it seems.

@sicarius When DNA and LY:H happened, it was a nasty shock but I was willing to wait it out, because I thought it was a natural effect of not just Western media but also collaborators taking interest. I was hoping that the management and creative team would take some time to review and regroup after the LY series wrapped up. But now it seems they are set on moving in that direction.

I didn’t like K-pop because it sounded like American pop. I liked it because it was its own thing. I liked that there were these ridiculously dramatic angsty storylines to the MVs or the concepts were wacky and pure fun. I liked that the melodies got stuck in my head way before I could understand any Korean. I liked that BTS changed the way I understood hip-hop and K-pop and popular music. It’s terrifying, because they are losing me, and potentially a lot of other longtime fans. Not that they might notice, because they’re bringing in a ton more new fans.

@greenfields “who okayed this album”? My thoughts exactly. I don’t know if it’s because they’re working with so many external collaborators that it’s a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth. They previously benefited from in-house production because it lent their discography a sonic coherence, even when they experimented with new genres.

It makes me so sad to think they might be losing the positive pressure to make their music stand out now that anything they releases instantly breaks all kinds of sales and streaming records. The feedback loop is broken because of blind fan support. And MoTS is, as you note, probably their last series before the hyung line enlists. I’m hoping their music gets a serious whipping into shape for the next few albums, because if things continue the way they are, it’s a horrible note to start a hiatus on.

@purpleteapot
They already have lost a lot of longtime fans. Myself included. They got me into K-pop.
They lost me between Spring Day and DNA and even more so from then. And Yoongi is was? My ultimate bias. And yeah it’s kinda scary and hurts a lot. The weaning pains as it were. Been there done that got the t-shirt, and the cynicism.

“The feedback loop is broken because of blind fan support”. Main I don’t even need to say anything anymore you’re just doing it all for me. Thank you. It might seem a bit of a weird thing to thank you for but I’ve had contrary opinions about BTS for some time now (as Greenie knows) and sometimes it gets tiring being the only one who thinks a certain way.

With that, I think I’ve run out of words. XD Your use of the words “nasty shock” is my “disappointed”. I’ll keep hoping for amazing solos, soundcloud releases and collabs like Song Request until the next, hopefully better, album comes out. Hopefully also Yoongi’s second mixtape.

@sicarius No, I understand what you mean. Thank you, too, for this conversation. I’ve been searching around for a proper album review/ comments by someone with more musical knowledge than me, because I want to know, from a music analysis perspective, what has gone so wrong. But all I keep seeing is a lot of squealing and genuine love for a very sub-par album. There aren’t many who see the album for what it is, or else they have been downvoted till they disappear from the conversation altogether. Even The Bias List, whom I trust for music analysis (he also is wary of K-pop’s increasingly generic sound), has mostly praise for “Boy with Luv”.

@greenfields Ugh. That confirms our suspicions. I can’t imagine it being easy for Big Hit’s producers to assert artistic decisions if they wanted to, because they might not want to step on the toes of international collaborators.

@purpleteapot
What went wrong? Oh a myriad of things. Too many cooks. Too much of a focus on selling to the western audience (when literally anything they put out would be popular they don’t have to pander so much), not enough individual sound. No strong rap line. Too much vocal effects. Not quite too many sounds as the last album, but they almost went backwards and now it’s just digital genericness after digital genericness that blends into one another. Also, I’m gonna go ahead and say it, BTS’ vocal line has poor technique and it’s ruining their voices and and that really doesn’t help when so many of the songs are vocally heavy.

What started with BTS producing things that were a product of them (Wings) has turned into BTS the brand, with a sole intent on selling them to a wider and wider audience to the point where even their so called messages are contrived and unauthentic. But unfortunately for you and I, people are going to continue to lap it up, because that’s what blind rabid fans do.
You’ve hit everything on the head already.
*I see BTS as the MCU of K-pop. Lol. A lot of flashiness and not much else* *coughs* *I’m gonna get hate for that one lol*

I should thank you guys too @purpleteapot and @sicarius – I’m seeing a lot of adulation and praise that makes no sense to me. I went all the way to Singapore in Jan 2019 for their concert, and adore them deeply. So the disconnect I feel from this album and the adulation I see is deeply unsettling – and only gets more so as I try to listen to the album again today. I was able to break it down a little thanks to you guys.

disconnect I alone seem to feel as a BTS fan* vs the adulation other fans seem to be exhibiting*

@sicarius Nothing but the truth in those words :C Even as I’m saying all this I wish it weren’t true, but in good conscience I cannot lie, especially not to myself. I guess I’ll still have Seventeen and Astro and SF9 and my other baby-bias groups.

I still can’t stop thinking about how good “Home” was–the song (this is how you do trends), the lyrics, the MV, THE CHOREO. My not-a-Carat-but-still feels!

@greenfields *hugs*

@purpleteapot
Rumour or no rumour I’m dying for new Zico music for similar reasons.

Mmm yes SVT still have retained their self producing status to a greater effect and I know Woozi just likes to make music that makes people happy. He seems very laid back musically.

OMG VOICES* my phone!!!!!

Your phone knows better than you! Shush 😋.

@superwhopotterlock – hahahaha!

Freudian slip?!? hahahahahaha

*dies of embarrassment*

🤣

Grreeeeeen 🤣🤣🤣

@fatcat007 – not you tooo!

Let your phone do the talking green.
It speaks The Truth 🤣🤣🤣

OH! That makes sense – hahahah! I joined the BTS fanship during the LY:Her era so nothing felt amiss at that time. But yeah – in that case you probably know how I’m feeling.

Weirdly enough, since I got into them during LY:Her. I heard the old songs and then new songs together and nothing seemed amiss. XD

I liked tear though? I mean it was my first proper album so maybe I didn’t get all the changes that others did, because I had nothing to compare it to. It was definitely dark, but some songs also were hopeful like magic shop and paradise. Also outro and TU(one of my favs) were good.

And before BTS I never put that much importance on lyrics. They were important, but not my first priority while listening to songs. So BTS kind of ruined me because I started disliking songs if the lyrics weren’t good. That’s why I have very few favs pre wings and HYYH era. Also as i said before, I didn’t like DNA initially. Also I couldn’t really enjoy songs of other artists because they were lyrically lacking. So it’s a kind of disadvantage as well. Now I’m trying to give importance to other aspects as well. That’s why I liked the title track. it’s simple and i can enjoy it without using my brains.

It’s very complicated. I hope you understand.

Ofc.. I mostly like Tear as well. And I’m the same as you on lyrics.