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Red Moon, Blue Sun: Episodes 17-18

So far all the instances of child abuse have been out of anger or neglect — but sometimes abuse can occur even when a parent desperately loves their child. Motivation doesn’t matter when the end result is still the same, and Red Cry makes it clear that there are no excuses when it comes to the well-being of a child.

 
EPISODES 17-18 RECAP

Thanks to the photo her childhood friend sent her, Woo-kyung realizes that the green dress was actually a birthday present from her mother. She struggles to recall glimpses of the little girl, happily wearing Woo-kyung’s dress — and then being pushed down and the dress torn off her.

Woo-kyung visits her sister, mentally asking the comatose Se-kyung if she knows who the little girl, the one who loved Woo-kyung’s birthday dress as much as she did. Because Woo-kyung still doesn’t have any answers.

She visits Mom in order to rummage around in the storage area again, except it’s completely empty. Mom says she wanted to clean it up, but Woo-kyung frets that the dress from her childhood might have been there. Mom’s more concerned that Woo-kyung’s still having hallucinations.

Looking at photos of Mom and the two sisters, Woo-kyung wonders what Mom thought when she first met Woo-kyung. Mom doesn’t want to talk about the past, but finally admits that her first impression of Woo-kyung was that she seemed mature for her age, and also a little depressed, which Mom assumed was due to losing her mother at such a young age.

Woo-kyung muses that they’re such a small family — they don’t have any extended family members, and a family is made up of memories. So not having anyone to share those memories with makes her lonely. Mom gripes that Woo-kyung’s been with her for the past thirty years, but Woo-kyung says she just misses Se-kyung.

After Woo-kyung leaves, Mom picks up one of the photos of her, the two girls, and their father. She accidentally drops it, breaking the frame and shattering the glass — a symbolic reminder of how fractured this family truly is.

Bit-na studies with her college-aged tutor, who apparently is “Teach” and the one who gave her the burner phone. He reassures her that the phone belongs to his younger brother who’s studying abroad, so Bit-na doesn’t need to worry about anyone finding out about it.

Except Ha-jung is suspicious, especially when she sees how chummy Bit-na and Teach are (because of course she’s spying on them from one of her cameras). She barges into the office and tells them lessons are over. Then, after her TSA pat-down of Bit-na, warns her daughter not to waste time chatting with her tutor. She slaps Bit-na, following it up with an “I love you” hug. Ugh, what a hypocrite.

Teach accidentally left his phone behind, and Ha-jung finds it because it keeps buzzing with text messages. She’s shocked to see they’re all from Bit-na, joking about how jealous her mom looked. Ha-jung realizes that Bit-na must have a secret phone, and unlocks the study closet to search for it.

Terrified, Bit-na pleadingly says that she’s sorry, but there’s a crazed gleam in her mother’s eyes as she grabs her daughters’s hair, demanding to know where Bit-na got the phone. Bit-na says it came from Teach, then defiantly asks if her mother is jealous that the tutor likes her so much.

Ha-jung still has the terrifying look in her eyes as she reminds Bit-na that all she ever thinks about is making sure Bit-na goes to college — why should she waste time thinking about a mere tutor? Then she grabs the girl, demanding to know why Bit-na keeps defying her and making her upset.

She turns around to grab a stick, which, based on the pedestal it sits on, is named “The Rod of Love.” Ha-jung tells her daughter to get undressed.

Soo-young’s followed up with Ha-jung’s alibis for Ji-hye and Doctor Park’s deaths, and Ha-jung is in the clear. However, Ha-jung seems to have been in the vicinity of the area where Red Cry’s phone was turned on the day Woo-kyung received the message.

When the detectives question Ha-jung about her whereabouts that afternoon, she admits she was on the highway they’re asking about, however so were thousands of other people, so there’s no reason for them to think that she’s connected to Red Cry. Um, except for the fact that the phone used was registered in her name.

The detectives search her apartment for the phone, all the while Ha-jung boasts that there’s no reason for them to find anything because she’s totally innocent. Except Ji-heon finds the study closet in Bit-na’s room. He’s also surprised by the CCTV camera, but Ha-jung confidently lies that her daughter asked for it, that it’s all Bit-na’s idea because she prefers to study without distraction and with the pressure of someone watching her.

Ji-heon is definitely not believing Ha-jung’s BS, especially when he finds “The Rod of Love” and comments that his house had one just like it, and that his mother used to beat him until he was in middle school. Aw, I guess no one on this show has had a decent childhood.

Ha-jung continues to lie that it’s just for show — she doesn’t actually use it, it’s merely a psychological warning. But Ji-heon’s not buying it, despite Ha-jung’s smug confidence. Her confidence starts to crack, however, when Soo-young confiscates her laptop and her phone. They didn’t find the burner phone, but they still need to investigate Ha-jung as a suspect.

Woo-kyung attempts to get information about her mother’s family, and the government worker reveals that Woo-kyung’s maternal grandmother died in 2008, and that there’s an aunt, however, since the aunt isn’t immediate family, the government worker can’t share any more information with Woo-kyung.

So Woo-kyung tries to look up her family tree online, but she’s interrupted by a visit from Shi-wan. The little boy tells her that this is his last day at the center. Woo-kyung’s surprised that his counseling sessions have ended so quickly, but Shi-wan says his father wanted it to be sped up so they could be over as soon as possible.

Woo-kyung seems to think that’s a bad idea, but instead she simply tells Shi-wan to get along with his classmates and to live a good life. Shi-wan asks Woo-kyung for her phone number, which Woo-kyung gives him. Then he asks her about the drawing of the little girl in the green dress, wondering if it’s her daughter because he thinks it looks like Woo-kyung.

Min-seok returns to the new home he’s made with Yeon-soo, happy to see Eun-soo waiting for him — but not so happy to see his former mother-in-law glaring at him in disapproval. She dropped Eun-soo off for a visit because she wanted to meet the infamous homewrecker in person, but Mom sighs as she admits that Yeon-soo seems like a good person.

She has another reason for being there — it’s to warn Min-seok that Woo-kyung is still having her hallucinations, and she begs him to help Woo-kyung return to her senses.

Woo-kyung asks Ji-heon to help her track down her aunt, but Ji-heon says this kind of informal investigation goes against protocol. Curious, he asks if this is somehow connected to the little girl in the green dress, and Woo-kyung says that no one seems to remember her childhood, and she can’t ask the people around her. Her father is dead, her sister is in a vegetative coma, and her step-mother wasn’t around during that time. Ji-heon, that big ol’ softy, says he’ll see what he can do.

Bit-na returns home, surprised to see her mother sitting helplessly in the dark. Realizing that Bit-na has a laptop, Ha-jung begs for it like a drug addict craving their next fix. Using her daughter’s computer, she logs onto the website (which is a horror-film site, not a rock band like I’d previously thought) to send a message to Red Cry.

She’s worried that the police will find evidence of their chats on her laptop, but Red Cry reassures her that if Ha-jung followed the proper protocol on logging into the website, then there won’t be anything for them to track.

Bit-na surprises her mother, who quickly closes the chat window, returning to the innocuous looking horror film site (which Bit-na stares at curiously). However Bit-na wants to know if her mother fired her tutor, and Ha-jung gruffly says that she did, and further told him to never contact Bit-na again.

Pointing out that her grades improved thanks to Teach, she pleads with her mother to let him keep tutoring her — she’ll study even harder (which seems impossible, considering how hard she’s forced to study already). But Ha-jung says that she’ll consider it.

Woo-kyung is not thrilled to discover that Mom went to Min-seok’s and met Yeon-soo, but Mom says that Eun-seo wanted to visit. Mom points out that Eun-seo prefers Yeon-soo because Woo-kyung has been so distracted lately, and if Woo-kyung had given her daughter the attention she needed instead of being distracted by other things, then all of this would have never happened in the first place.

That’s a brutal sucker punch to the gut, and Woo-kyung tries to hold herself together until after she hangs up the phone, then begins to sob.

At the police station, Chan-wook has done his best to search through Ha-jung’s laptop and phone, but there’s nothing suspicious. Ha-jung hardly uses them beyond the basics, and there’s nothing to connect her to Red Cry. The only minor odd thing is that, in her search history, she visits the horror-film website fairly frequently, which seems like an unlikely hobby for her. But judging the woman by her seemingly innocuous interests is not enough evidence against her.

Min-seok shows up to Woo-kyung’s apartment to take Eun-seo on vacation for a few days. Woo-kyung is furious because he never told her about it beforehand, but Min-seok insists that he did, but Woo-kyung’s just been too distracted lately to pay attention to what’s going on with her family. He warns her that if she continues to act like this, then he’ll have no choice but to take full custody of Eun-seo.

As Woo-kyung studies the bare-bones records she has on her parents, she thinks over Mom’s warning that if Woo-kyung doesn’t give up chasing after ghosts and instead focus on her daughter, she could lose everything. Woo-kyung folds up the paper and sits alone in her room, pondering.

Soo-young returns Ha-jung’s laptop and phone to her, and then returns to the car parked out in front of the woman’s shop. Ji-heon and Soo-young settle in for another stake-out to see if Ha-jung does anything strange.

They watch as Bit-na returns home, and Bit-na is delighted when she sees Teach’s shoes by the door. But when she walks into the kitchen, she sees Teach and her mother getting super cozy over dinner preparations. Shocked and hurt (since she clearly has a crush on Teach), Bit-na runs out of the home and to a nearby rooftop, where she looks out over the city and cries her heart out.

She calls Woo-kyung, who worriedly asks if everything’s okay. Through her sobs, Bit-na says she wishes her mother was dead. Bit-na pleads with Woo-kyung to help her. Woo-kyung tracks Bit-na down and takes her back to the children’s center. Eun-ho is doing maintenance near the front doors, and intently watches them walk inside.

As a video camera records Bit-na’s statements, she reveals to Woo-kyung that her mother installed the study closet when she started middle school and would lock Bit-na in to study for hours everyday. Once locked in, there was no way to escape until Ha-jung let her out, except for an emergency bell that Bit-na would ring if she felt sick or needed to use the bathroom.

If Bit-na’s grades went down, her mother brought out “The Rod of Love.” Woo-kyung wonders why Bit-na didn’t tell her any of this before, and Bit-na says that her mother is only doing it out of love — Bit-an only has to endure until she goes to college.

But Bit-na’s voice grows quiet as she confesses she might die before then. Woo-kyung takes photos of the wounds — both fresh and old scars — on the girl’s back.

Surprised on his stake-out to see Ha-jung being escorted from her home by the police, Ji-heon finds out that Ha-jung has been arrested due to a report of a child report from Bit-na’s counselor. Ji-heon accurately guesses that Woo-kyung was the one who reported it, and learns that Ha-jung refuses to talk to any of the cops and will only speak to Woo-kyung.

In the interrogation room, Ha-jung faces Woo-kyung, furious that Woo-kyung is causing unnecessary trouble. But Woo-kyung says that she regrets she wasn’t able to intervene years ago when she was first concerned about Bit-na. Ha-jung angrily insists that she’s done nothing wrong, but Woo-kyung pulls out photos of another boy, whose father the members of Everybody’s Child had accused of being animal due to the way he beat his son.

She sets down the photos of Bit-na next to them, revealing that the scars and wounds of both children are identical. Woo-kyung says that Ha-jung is no different than that “animal” of a parent, but Ha-jung shrieks that she’s completely different! In wide-eyed desperation, she explains did out of love for Bit-na, to encourage her to stay focused on her future.

Except that was the same reasoning the abusive father beat his son — his excuse was that he “had no choice” but to fix his son’s bad habits by beating him. In a voice cold with fury, Woo-kyung point-blank calls Ha-jung a child abuser.

At home, Woo-kyung prepares the sofa for Bit-na, who’s staying with her for the night. Bit-na asks after Eun-seo, and Woo-kyung says she’s with her father. Realizing that Woo-kyung is now divorced, Bit-na sighs that at least Eun-seo gets to see her father. Woo-kyung asks if Bit-na misses her own father, and there’s a telling pause before Bit-na says that she doesn’t.

Settling in her makeshift bed, Bit-na finds a children’s book (with the same title of the drama, Red Moon, Blue Sun). Bit-na recognizes the book, which is about two children and a tiger who disguises itself as their mother to trick them into letting the tiger into their home so it can eat them.

Woo-kyung says that the kids manage to escape and eventually become the “red moon” and the “blue sun.” Bit-na muses that she always thought the mother was the one dressed up as the tiger, because it reminded her of her mother. Ha-jung was generally a good mother, but sometimes she’d turn into a tiger when Bit-na misbehaved.

Which is why Bit-na was so determined to study hard and make her mother happy. A tear slips from the corner of her eye as Bit-na confesses that she thinks all her effort to be a “good daughter” might have been in vain.

Ha-jung seems to have been affected by the harsh reality of her actions, and pleads guilty on all charges of child abuse. Ji-heon marvels at Ha-jung’s hypocrisy — she was such a vocal opponent of child abuse, yet turned out to be an abuser herself.

Soo-young says that Ha-jung probably wasn’t fully aware of what she was doing, convincing herself that it was out of love, and therefore not abuse. Even so, it’s proof that Ha-jung can’t be Red Cry, because she’s actually the type of parent that Red Cry would target.

Once she returns home, Ha-jung opens up the secret messaging website, and gets a notification from Red Cry that he’s shocked and disappointed by her. Ha-jung insists she had her reasons, but Red Cry asks if her abused kid understands those reasons. Ha-jung stares at the secret chat-screen in horror as Red Cry warns her that he expects an appropriate conclusion soon.

Chan-wook gets a notification that the burner phone associated with Red Cry is in use at a post office, and Ji-heon and Soo-young rush out to track it down. As they drive to the neighborhood, the local police lock-down the post office and question everyone.

Except the phone is revealed to be on the move, so Ji-heon follows after it, ending up at a mail sorting depot. Ji-heon realizes that the phone is actually in a package — Red Cry purposefully sent them on a wild goose chase. Ji-heon racks his brain, trying to figure out why, and Soo-young realizes it must be to distract them from Ha-jung.

The detectives try to track down Ha-jung’s location, since they know she left her apartment that afternoon. Chan-wook pulls up her call history, and is surprised that the last call Ha-jung made was to Woo-kyung.

It was to set up a meeting with her daughter, and the two women and Bit-na arrive at a coffee shop overlooking the river. Ji-heon calls Woo-kyung to get their location. Soo-young and Chan-wook both eye him with doubtful suspicion as he insists it’s completely innocent despite everything coming back to Woo-kyung.

As the detectives speed to the coffee shop, Ha-jung sits with her daughter while Woo-kyung keeps an eye on them from a few tables away. Mother and daughter are both awkward with each other, and Ha-jung muses that the last time she was here was ten years ago on a family outing when Bit-na’s father was still around.

Ha-jung begins to cry as she confesses that Bit-na’s father didn’t abandon them, like she’d always told her daughter. Instead, they got divorced, which caused Ha-jung’s self-esteem to hit rock bottom. Then she used Bit-na to help improve her self-esteem by forcing her to the best at everything.

Bit-na also starts to tear up, although they seem more like tears of anger than sorrow, since she knows full well that her mother was just using her for her own selfish reasons. Ha-jung grabs her daughter’s hand, apologizing for everything, and telling Bit-na not to forgive her.

Chan-wook’s still tracking the phone package, and is surprised when the computer shows that it should be at the police station. Sure enough, a delivery man drops off the package, and Chan-wook carefully opens it. He unlocks the phone to reveal a message from Red Cry, warning everyone that his next target is Ha-jung.

Back at the coffee shop, Bit-na goes for a walk to calm down and also so that Ha-jung can speak privately with Woo-kyung. Ha-jung remembers the first time they met, Woo-kyung had read a touching children’s story to all the other mothers of Everybody’s Child. Which is why Ha-jung began to hate her, since Woo-kyug made Ha-jung feel like a phony.

Ji-heon calls Woo-kyung to warn her to stay put and not let Ha-jung out of her sight. Ha-jung finds it amusing that the police arrested her yesterday, but today they want to protect her. Woo-kyung explains that there’s a serial killer targeting child abusers, and Ha-jung muses that they must want to kill her, too. She insists, yet again, that her actions were only out of love for Bit-na.

But Woo-kyung cuts her off, pointing out that Ha-jung was too greedy, and shouldn’t try to paint over her actions with “love.” Ha-jung realizes how much Woo-kyung must hate her, too, then excuses herself to use the restroom.

Woo-kyung notes that it’s taking Ha-jung too long to return to the table, and discovers that the bathroom is empty. Ha-jung is gone. As Woo-kyung runs around desperately searching for her, Ha-jung checks her messages from Red Cry, who warns her that everyone is furious because they feel betrayed. Red Cry asks if Ha-jung has made up her mind, and if she’ll be her own judge.

Woo-kyung finds Ha-jung standing on a bridge walkway between two buildings. As the two women stare at each other, Ha-jung smiles and then falls off the bridge onto the concrete below.

Horrified, Woo-kyung watches from above as Ji-heon and Soo-young, who just arrived, run towards Ha-jung’s body. Bit-na also returns from her walk and throws herself on her mother, wailing in grief as Ji-heon and Soo-young try to pull the girl away. Ji-heon looks up to see Woo-kyung standing on the bridge, staring down in tearful shock.

 
COMMENTS

That tutor is super suspicious. Not just because he’s clearly got a thing going with Ha-jung, but because he said he got the phone from his little brother who’s studying abroad. Which normally wouldn’t make me sit-up and take notice, but considering that Suk-woo’s mother was nearly run down by a part-time truck driver who’s studying abroad, I can’t help but make the connection. This isn’t the kind of show to sprinkle in such details that aren’t later going to be important, so I’m clinging to my vague suspicion that he’s the older brother to our errant truck driver — and they must, in some way, be connected to Eun-ho if only because Eun-ho has to be connected since he’s still the primary suspect for Red Cry. Why would they keep reminding us that Eun-ho sees everything and everyone coming into the children’s center. If he has access to the school’s records, then he would have been able to look up Woo-kyung’s notes (or even watched the video) and then realized that Ha-jung is just as horrible as the parents she tries to persecute.

I’m as frustrated as Ji-heon because I still don’t have any proof that Eun-ho is Red Cry. Just that it all fits. He’s got the access, the motivation, and presumably the connections to make things happen. Admittedly it’s just a theory, because the show is doing such a great hiding who Red Cry truly is — but I don’t believe it’s Woo-kyung, since she seemed genuinely distraught when she was looking for Ha-jung. She might hate Ha-jung for what she did to Bit-na, but I don’t think Woo-kyung wanted that end for the woman, especially since Ha-jung genuinely seemed horrified to realize that she went from over-protective tiger-mom to full-on child abuser.

The catch, though, will be proving that Ha-jung’s death wasn’t suicide, because it definitely was. Considering how hard it’s been for our detectives to convince Captain Hong that the other deaths weren’t suicides or due to natural causes, this will be difficult to explain that it’s connected to Red Cry. Well, except for the fact that Red Cry has purposefully outed himself as targeting Ha-jung.

That’s an interesting move, since it means Red Cry knows the detectives are after him (and I’m only saying “him” just for the ease of pronouns, since despite my suspicion of Eun-ho, Red Cry could be anyone). This also means the cat-and-mouse game can begin in earnest, although it seems like the detectives are the “mouse” in this situation, being expertly toyed with by the all-knowing vigilante. Honestly, I think this was the episode where I fully understood Red Cry’s motivations. I don’t know why Bit-na’s situation affected me more than the other children’s — perhaps because it wasn’t obvious abuse, like neglecting your child until they nearly starve to death, or making them dig through the trash, or dumpling them at an orphanage.

In all the other examples, these parents were genuinely horrible, and they would likely be the first to admit it. While we don’t know Ji-hye’s full story, at least with the other parents, we know that they seemingly didn’t want to be parents, that the children were a hindrance. These were also poor people, people on the fringes, scrabbling to make a life for themselves and feeling like their children were getting in the way. Ha-jung, however, is solidly middle-class, and obviously cares a lot about her daughter — too much, even. Which is why it’s so terrifying that the same actions born of hate can be used to express love.

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I know murder is bad, whatever noble reasons Red Cry has to justify his/her action. But this is the first eps where I realized that Red Cry is also just as blind to their own mistake as Bit-na's mom. He/she might free the kids from their abusive and neglectful parents, but accidentally (or maybe not so accidentally?) doing the murder in front of those kids will definitely bring about a whole other kind of trauma and misconception to their life.

How would Bit-na took the fact that she told someone about her mom's abusive action then saw her mom took her own life in front of her eyes? What kind of message would it sent to Ha-na when Red Cry solved her problem by murdering her mom in front of her and told her (though not in so many words) to keep quiet? How about So-ra who is so unabashedly happy and almost giddy knowing her dad died?

I'm still not so sure though whether Red Cry is truly blind to the unwanted side effect of his/her actions, or this is just another twisted idea he/she has to "groom" these kids with Red Cry's justice code.

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I had the same thought. If Bit-na isn't messed up from turning her mother to the police, she definitely will be now that she saw her mother killed herself.

I want to give her lots of hugs. :(

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It's worse since Bit Na said to WK on the phone 'I wish my mother was dead' word-for-word (which makes me wonder if RC learnt about her mother's abusiveness from a wiretap on WK's phone/in her office rather than an informant via Eun Ho/someone in the police).

Honestly, I just really, really hope we won't have a scene like I'm dreading we will, where some ep in the future Red Cry tells Bit Na 'you wished she was dead, so I made your wish come true' LIKE LET'S PLEASE SAVE THE CHILDREN AND THEIR MENTAL HEALTH OKAY.

Actually, speaking of, the thing I found saddest about this episode is --and I don't know if it felt that way to anyone else-- but I felt like Bit Na's mother seemed to have genuine mental problems behind her behaviour. I'm not saying this to condone what she did in any way, but that's how I interpreted her.

Like, all the other child abusers we've seen so far seemed to have been completely in their right minds while being awful people. But Bit Na's mother felt different.

For one, everything she did with Bit Na, like the searches and the camera and the lock, they were all overly obsessive. Like someone who doesn't trust anything, who can't tell what is real and what isn't without multiple assurances via locks and cameras. She seemed too-bright-eyed and twitchy. I felt like she embodied the whole 'screaming with your body' thing mentioned by SY earlier.

Most of all, she seemed so completely disassociated from what she was doing. Like, the way she couldn't understand what she'd done to Bit Na until she saw photos next to another victim, and how, when she did understand, she collapsed into tears and confessed straight away. It triggered all my flags for someone who wasn't thinking straight when they did what they'd done.

The reason I say it makes me feel sad though, is because I can't help thinking that if someone had just noticed she didn't seem completely right in the head, if someone had just intervened earlier, if some mental health professional had given Bit Na's mother the help she needed, then I honestly don't think Bit Na would've experienced any of this. Not the abuse, not her mother dying in front of her, none of it (though maybe her mother would've gotten involved with RC anyway, since I can't really know for sure if that was influenced by her mental problems or not).

I really wish they'd address that possibility in the show as well, because overlooking the mental health of adults with children is a serious social issue that needs to be in the spotlight. It's not just the social justice system that's feeling kids here, it's the mental health system too.

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*typo, sorry, meant to write 'It's not just the social justice system that's failing kids here'

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I have been suspicious of her phone and office being wiretapped for the past two episodes too.

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Where did Bitna get the phone she used to call Woo kyung? We know her mom took the phone the tutor gave Bitna. And we know there's a missing phone registered in Bitna's mom's name...

Yes, I've actually thought that Bitna could be Red Cry even though I know that sounds crazy but the police say they traced Red Cry's phone to Bit na's moms car while they were driving on a highway. I'm just sayin'...

The only other person I view as a suspect is Woo kyung herself. She's obviously not well mentally and could be killing without her conscious mind remembering.

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Lol, tbh I assumed Bit Na already had one phone given to her by Woo Kyung which she reserved for emergencies, while her teach’s phone is what she used to play around.

I mean, if teach’s phone were her only one, I have to imagine she’d be much more careful about it and have a dedicated hiding spot like a hollow textbook or something rather than just ‘let’s put it under the desk and hope mum doesn’t see’. Plus, if BN didn’t already have another phone, how else would Woo Kyung know her number to message her and say ‘I’m always on your side’, considering Bit Na only got the tutor’s phone recently?

It’s a good catch of an inconsistency though. That said, I just can’t see BN as RC. Plus, even if she were RC, you’d have to wonder why she didn’t go after her own mother earlier rather than after she was exposed.

And on WK being RC...I disagree because of many reasons I’ve already mentioned in many other places lol. I do genuinely think the writer is dropping hints to make viewers worry about the possibility, so it’s not like you’re seeing hints that aren’t there. I just don’t think there’s any actual chance of it being anything more than a red herring, because it just doesn’t fit the story from a storyteller’s perspective, imo.

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You're right, of course. I think it's my overall boredom of feeling like I've seen everything there is to see by way of plot that I would love it if all that studying made Bit na a child (evil) genius that somehow, as Red Cry, convinced the evil adults around her to form a group knocking off child abusers. I mean, she's grown up watching radical groups (even though formed for the right reasons)... I'm going off into my warped imagination of what I want to see again - just anything different. lol

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I never thought BN doesn't have a phone. I just thought her phone gets confiscated during her study confinement time, and she uses the one her teacher gave her inside the closet just to text him to vent. So WK probably has her original phone number?

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@midnight oh, good point! I assumed she wouldn’t have her own phone for fear of it distracting her, but then I remembered she has her own laptop which is infinitely more distracting lol. That may very well be it.

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@midnight It seemed to me the child never had a free moment of study so I'm assuming her mom would've not gotten her a phone because phone = friends & frivolous activities on it but I suppose you're correct because mom would want to call Bit na to keep tabs and in contact.

But then why didn't mom piece it together when the detectives said there's another phone registered to you that the murderer used while driving on the highway in your car? Wouldn't she have said something about her daughter's phone and wouldn't the detectives have wanted to take that phone to investigate it too when they took her mom's phone?

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@fishnchips @ramonathepest I had a feeling I had seen the phone being taken so I checked. 3 minutes into episode 15 her mother takes her watch and her phone, puts them in a bowl, and then locks her in the study closet.

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@midnight Yo, super catch! Original phone confirmed then.

@ramonathepest there are so many phones involved in the narrative it’s hard to keep them all straight lol. In summary tho, I think we can say that:

RC’s phone:
-Burner phone
-Registered in HJ’s name
-Used to make a call before Ji Hye died to a payphone near Ji Hye’s House
-Used to reply to WK on the mother’s forum
-Was on the same highway as HJ at one point
-Was posted by RC to taunt JH

BN’s ‘teach’ phone:
-Given to her by teach via his overseas (and possible truck driver) little brother
-May or may not be a burner phone
-Given to her recently
-Was possibly in her possession during RC’s reply to WK
-Existence was not known by HJ

BN’s normal phone:
-Likely not a burner phone
-Known to her mother
-Possibly registered under her or her mother’s name
-Used only to call WK

...I wrote that all out so it’d make more SENSE but now I...feel more confused lol.

Either the RC phone is another burner phone HJ had which she gave back to RC at one point, or it’s the one Bit Na had which got back to RC thru teach. But both scenarios have their own contradictions. I need to rewatch the episode tbh.

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Bit Na phone was given to her by he tutor, and since her mom was part of Red Cry network she could have give him phone obtained under her name and claimed she was the victim of identity theft.

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I think she has two phones, the one she uses in her daily life and the mom knew about and another -from her tutor- which she used in the locked room.

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Oh actually, your last comment about RC grooming kids for his justice code made me think. Has anyone else noticed there seems to be a mirroring pattern to the way the RC circle enacts their killings?

Ji Hye
- Burned her son (alive or dead).
- Burned to death in a car.

So Ra's dad
- Beat his child and wife; wife was full of resentment and frustration, feelings often described as 답답해, which has the nuance of feeling like you can't breathe.
- Died because of asphyxiation due to carbon monoxide.

Ha Na's mother
- Didn't speak to her daughter or take care of her, never gave her the things she needed.
- Died not being able to breathe, let alone speak, because someone was keeping what she needed -her medicine- out of reach.

Suk Woo's mother
- Son died being hit by a car
- Got hit by a truck and survived.

Bit Na's mother
- Almost drove her daughter to suicide via jumping off a tall building
- Jumped off a bridge

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I agree. It makes me think about the story Ji-Heon told about the little kid who committed arson on his family home because of abuse. If that boy was encouraged to do it by Red Cry (I don't think we know either way, but I could just be muddled by Christmas wine), then Red Cry actively involved a child in murder and arson.

That's not caring for a child. Getting their hands dirty and making them commit a crime, which will be with them for life and affect them deeply, is just another form of abuse.

Bit-Na is now going to feel some responsibility in what happened to her mother. No matter how bad things were, she loved her mother. She might have wanted to be separated from her, but would have still wanted to know that not only was she still in the world, but that there was always a chance for meaningful reconciliation and forgiveness.

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All of this makes me wonder if it's actually Woo-kyung they're punishing. Don't get me wrong - I'm still attracted to my Red Sky theory and the idea that Woo-kyung had a psychotic break and is dissociating from her actions as Red Sky (a member of Red Sky?).

But it's also possible whoever Red Sky is (or they are) is angry at her for knowing about abuse but not stopping it. I read something once that says what abused kids are angry about is the hypocrisy - seen in this episode as the 'I love you' straight after the beating. If that's the case, then it's possible an abused child is angry at the therapist who never helped or stopped the abuse. That they may see her impotence as being as bad as - or even worse - than the abuse itself. Because if you look at the list of people traumatised by everything that's happened so far, Woo-kyung is up there.

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It looks so bad for Woo-kyung, My fearcisvthst they'll believe she pushed her to her death

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Oops -fear is that

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Thanks @odilettante
I felt so much for Woo Kyung when her cold, cruel step mum asked why Eun Seo kept asking for the ahjumma mistress and not for WK.

I'm thinking that if WK was abused as a child, then the abuse from her step mum is continuing in another form now that WK is an adult. Step mum will never smile at her or return her warmth, although she helps to care for Eun Seo she displays her unhappiness at this and she makes the above kind of snide remark that will hurt WK tremendously.

On the one hand she appears to be caring and looking out for Eun Seo, but on the other, I am suspicious that she just wants to do WK maximum hurt by taking away her daughter and siding with Eun Seo's father against WK.

That was a good catch about the tutor having a brother studying overseas. It never occurred to me. It's true that this show puts out a whole bunch of clues which we viewers could miss if we blinked.

I find it so chilling that Red Cry knows everything. He knew that Ha Jung was an abuser one day after she was taken in for questioning, he knew to get the phone delivered at a particular time when Ha Jung would be out of her home meeting Bit Na (or maybe that was serendipitous because surely that depends on mail pickup and delivery times??) and he knew exactly to which person in the whole big police department to send the phone to. And he was so brazen that he left the photo of his next victim for Ji Heon. So that reduces (or extends!) the suspects to everyone who's met Ji Heon!!

The brazen aspect of Rec Cry has me scratching my head. Unless it's Eun Ho who's got the split personality and morphs into an aggressive bully who likes to tease the cops. His usual personality is so mild and he would walk away to avoid Ji Heon as a rule.

The most chilling thing is how greed and abuse is re-packaged as love in order to justify anything. Poor Bit Na will be traumatised for life, she may blame herself for rejecting her mother's 'love' and causing her suicide. *eye roll*

I'm still loving this show!!!

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I agree Woo kyung's mom is one cruel piece of work however, I don't think she's the child abuser from the past. I think Woo kyung inherited her bio mother's mental illness and that her bio mom was the abuser and that's why dad created the pseudo childhood memories.

What i can't figure out is - who pushed the child in the green dress because it looked like an older child, not a woman based on the height and body type. I'm guessing Woo kyung pushed her younger sister as siblings do, but bio mom took it further. I seem to remember stepmom saying Woo kyung was favored and spoiled so maybe bio mom, being unstable, favored Woo kyung so much that she unleashed her abuse on the younger sister. (Although I can't remember if Woo kyung's sister was older or younger which could make my whole theory be a bust.)

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@ramonathepest (And tagging for interest ... @fishnchips @midnight @luzitania ) Interesting take on WK's mum ... there is certainly a possibility that if she had mental illness, it could be passed on.

I'm guessing that it was WK who pushed the child who had 'borrowed' the green dress. It gave her a guilt complex or something, maybe linked to whatever abuse the little girl may have received. As a child, WK may have taken on the burden of blame for the child's mishaps/punishments, thinking it was due to her anger.

When WK was pregnant, and Shi Wan's mum stopped his treatment, something triggered the association with her traumatic past and she started having the hallucinations. Shi Wan had been receiving counselling after seeing his little sister killed in an accident.

The trigger seems to be to do with a younger sibling who might have been abused/is dead/comatose. Maybe WK feels responsible for all the doensaengs who may be at risk of abuse, because of her experience with that little girl of her past.

And of all the most horrid of coincidences, it was at that time that the boy ran across the highway and she killed him by accident. So now the phantom little girl keeps appearing. Poor WK will never cease feeling responsible or guilty until maybe her sister recovers and she knows the truth of her past.

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I do not think her mom does it for free the babysitting.
In one episode WK handed her stepmom an envelope and her step mom said can you afford to pay since her husband left her. Something like that.

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Yes, I did notice this, but now that you bring it up it takes on a different meaning. I'm used to thinking that even if parents help out, they should still be given something in appreciation (normally money) so I did not think of it as payment for baby-sitting services. But if that is what it was, then her relationship with her mother is even more distant than it appears.

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But affording to pay makes it sound like not a small change to say thank you. She could have said "Oh no you do not need to do that I just help out you need the money more!"

Affording seems like an ongoing transaction for a service in my opinion.

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There was a scene very early on where we got a clear abuser vibe from her stepmum. She chipped Woo-kyung on something and Woo-kyung responded like an abused child - instantly apologising and almost begging for forgiveness. It's possible her abuse is more subtle but it's clearly abuse.

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So we got a few good hints from this episode:
1) As @odilettante mentionned (which I totally missed, so good catch), the tutor has a brother studying abroad. Could it be the truck driver from the last episode?

2) When the stepmom looked at her family's picture (with I am guessing young Woo-kyung and her comatose sister) and the girl with the green dress wasn't there. Which seems to give more weight to a theory that has been floating around about another younger sister (the girl with the little green dress) who, for some reason, died or disappeared when Woo-Kyung was a child.

3) Unless the translation got messed up, Red Cry clearly mentionned that "everyone is furious" which would suggest that Red Cry might be a group, not a single person. If that is the case, it opens up a slew of possibilities on people's involvement and how much they know. For example, the tutor could be a participant (as in handing out burner phones to abused children) without knowing the intended target (killing their parents).

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Totally agree with you on all 3 points! (And can confirm no translation mistake on 3).

More on 2 though, I'd like to add something else. I found stepmum's 'reluctant understanding' towards WK's husband cheating on her a little suspect this episode. Like, the fact that she blamed WK earlier on was already surprising, but how easily she admitted that YS 'seems like a good person' raised a flag for me. She seemed to accept the affair so easily, and be so non-judgemental about it. That, combined with WK commenting how devoted stepmum is to Se-Kyung even though she isn't her child got me thinking.

So my current theory is that Se-Kyung, WK's sister in a coma, is a half-sister from an affair stepmum and WK's dad had while dad was still married, and that Se-Kyung is around the same age as the Girl in the Green Dress, WK's full blood little sister. So when something happened to GGD, stepmum and dad just made WK think her two little sisters were one and the same.

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@fishnchips This is a very intriguing theory and close to the one I had that there might have been another little girl in the household who has somehow been forgotten. This ties in with the creation of false memories. Maybe little girl liked Woo Kyung and wanted to emulate her, (thus the trying on of the dress).

Maybe when little girl tried on the dress, Woo Kyung pushed her out of pique that her dress had been taken. After that push, little girl disappeared ... WK might have felt guilty thinking her push cause little girl to 'die' or disappear. So to allay the trauma, false memories were created to crowd out the real memory of the little girl in the green dress.

Such fun conjecturing!

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I agree, it's super fun throwing all the possibilities around! I've always been a huge fan of mystery dramas that let you conjecture along with the characters, so I'm super addicted to this one lol.

About how GDG disappeared, I've actually been thinking about the first teaser for this drama. You know, the one showing a little hand bleeding in a tunnel while other children played outside? All the other material from the teasers has been shown already, but not that one. I noticed that one poster for the show have GDG appearing ahead of what seems to be that bleeding hand, which makes me wonder if that was her fate. In which case... *shudders* I really don't wanna know who was responsible for that.

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@fishnchips Oh no, I missed the teaser!! Was it from the very beginning or even before the first episode aired?

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@growingbeautifully, before it even aired! That's why I'm even more curious about it, since they must have filmed it really early, but we've yet to see it. It's the first one in the DB article here: http://www.dramabeans.com/2018/11/tragedy-and-intrigue-in-red-moon-blue-sun-teasers/. (Forgive my copy-paste link lol.)

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Thanks @fishnchips!!

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@growingbeautifully, you're welcome! Also, you can scroll down here to find the poster I mentioned https://www.kpopmap.com/red-moon-blue-sun-2018-drama-cast-summary/. The background and details are a little diff but the similar motif of small bleeding hand + tunnel raised a flag for me. (Maybe moved the body??)

...Also, actually, now that I look at the character posters on that page again, I find it a little bit concerning how Woo Kyung and Ji Heon's posters both say 'I will save you' whereas Eun Ho and Soo Young's posters both say 'I will defend you'. Uhm...with what methods, exactly, are you two planning to do that.

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Thanks again @fishnchips I see what you mean. At first glance I thought the hand was that of an adult. But it could have been a small child's hand. There was also a piece of paper near the hand. The teaser of children playing in the sun while the bloody hand is unseen in the dark was evocative to me of the danger hovering unseen near places where children should be safe and carefree. Very appropriate for the theme of child abuse especially by their nearest relatives, in their homes and children's centres. Quite provoking!

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@growingbeautifully, OOOH, you know what you made me realise- I'm so excited I can't type omd. So, basically the white writing in that poster says 'At every death with poetry, there's always a child.'

And adding that line on the poster to what you said about thinking it was an adult's hand, I think your first perception was right, and the hand in that poster is the hand of an adult, and the scrap of paper --which I'd originally thought was something incriminating that was gotten rid of-- is a scrap of paper with poetry on it.

Only what makes this more exciting is it's possible that the reason that the adult body in the poster is in a position similar to the child's body in the teaser, is because this poster is showing a revenge killing for that first child which we haven't seen yet in the drama.

Idk if I'm stretching here or not, but honestly, if we get a death with an adult in the position shown on the poster and it turns out they were killed in retaliation for the GDG and she really is the body in the first teaser...well I will scream lol. I love it when clues are left in posters/teasers as well as the drama itself.

Of course, it might well be a simple coincidence, but we can have fun theorising in the meantime!

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@growingbeautifully I'm seeing both hands as adult hands...

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LOL @fishnchips and @midnight
Now you've got me all excited as well!!!

I re-watched to check ... when Ha Jung killed herself, her left arm was outstretched but it was not quite bloody as it was her head that was bleeding. Also she was not in a dark place, so I don't know if this scene is supposed to fulfil that poster pic of that bloody hand yet. 😅

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@fishnchips and @midnight On second thoughts, Ha Jung's hand is probably not the same as the bloody hand, because it's the wrong hand!!! Should have been the right hand instead of the left. 😉

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@growingbeautifully, I feel like we're gonna be in agony waiting for something that matches scene until the end of the drama LOL but the hype is so real omd. I'm counting down the hours until episode 10!!

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@midnight After we count the hours to the show, we (at least I do) count the hours before the show's subbed, then the days before we get the recap!!! 😂

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Oops! Sorry, I meant @fishnchips LOL. I was sleepy before I came back to read these comments and now I'm awake again! But maybe not nearly enough awake since I read one person's handle for another's!!!

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@growingbeautifully, lol putting off sleep to reply to drama comments is the beanie way of life XD

Omd though waiting for recaps is gonna kill me. I'd actually been following the show via recaps only until episode 16, then I watched episode 17-18 and planned to watch it all properly from the beginning only to have my house internet cut off thanks to rainstorms >.< So now I'm on mobile internet and only risk using it to look at specific scenes (I am gonna use it for episodes 19-20 though, I CARE NOT OF MY DATA PLAN). But waiting for this recap to be written was killing meeee since I had so much to say and nowhere to write lol. Idk how I'll handle it after the next ep!

Tbh I tend to wait for subs too lol, especially with crime dramas because my Korean comprehension isn't perfect with judicial lingo, but sometimes if you've got the raw ep and the dictionaries and the intermediate Korean, a girl has to do what a girl has to do... X'D

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"...Woo Kyung pushed her out of pique that her dress had been taken."

I focused on this line of the post because I have been wondering if the hand that pushed the little girl belonged to an adult or another child.

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I honestly thought comatosed sister was the little girl in green dress. But after seeing this episode, your point 2 seems possible.

It's very intriguing since we currently have 2 mysteries at hand here: who Red Cry is and who the little girl is. Now I wonder if these 2 are connected somehow.

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Ohthankgoodnes, Ji Heon is officially in the clear. Lol, I know Woo Kyung was the popular 'what if the mc is Red Cry' theory, but I was always more worried about Ji Heon (anything pointing to WK feel too heavy handed to be genuine, plus, as @odilettante so rightfully pointed out, I've never felt that killing abusers is in her nature).

But MAN I was worried about Ji Heon mostly because he's my favourite and I love how he's devoted to justice how the writer kept putting off his backstory made me worry they were saving it for some twist reveal ('surprise, Red Cry was the mc all along, but not the mc you thought he was!'), and how little things left open holes in his narrative.

Like, the fact that he woke up the night after Ji Hye's murder in a bath full of water (any burns to cool?), how he didn't really remember everything he'd done that night (was drunk, had to get his ex's ex to confirm), how people wondered how Ji Hye was lured to an amusement park (everyone trusts a cop), how Ha Na pointed at him (assuming she meant 'someone like him' was all Woo Kyung's logic rather than Ha Na saying it).

But this episode I am now convinced all my fears were for nought. Thank goodness honestly, omd. @amylovesoppa mentioned this the other ep, and I totally agree, how Ji Heon seems to be the only one to have gotten over his bad past and become a good, functional human being aND I REALLY WANT THAT FOR HIM. Not just as a sign of hope for others, but for himself because he's an optimistic softy who can't stand injustice and I adore him and I just want him to be happy. Even better if it's with Woo Kyung because you can never have too many ships amirite.

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Did I miss something about Ji heon's past (besides that his mother had a "rod of love")? I often catch myself snoozing and sometimes i find I don't rewind far enough. How do we know he has a bad childhood/past?

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Nah, the only explicit evidence we have is the grim way he looked/sounded when he mentioned his mother, but most people assumed he’d have one due to him being one of the main 4 characters, and the fact that the other 3 all seem to have had traumatising childhoods as well.

Not to mention, it’d go a long way to explaining why he seemed so devastated that the girlfriend he (at the time) loved was pregnant. A lot of abused children are afraid they might turn into their parents if they have children themselves, after all. I imagine we’ll get a deeper backstory later.

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I heard too many stories of guys being assholes in the face of unexpected pregnancy that it didn't ring to me as a sign of abuse, rather him being immature ass and trying to redeem himself through being kind to WK, and not giving up on this murder cases involving children.

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Tbh I saw him as more 'terrified speechless' rather than 'oh no I don't want a kid shock', but I think the scene's open to various interpretations.

I'm personally convinced of his fear of turning into his mother though. Like, I've noticed that Ji Heon always speaks in a soft, sweet tone to kids, but he tends to hesitate when it comes to physically interacting with them- picking them up or patting their back or returning a hug, etc. Again, you can interpret that a lot of ways. I personally think it points to him being scared of accidentally hurting a child. It's an irrational mindset, but commonly seen, even in non-abuse-victims.

I'm hoping we'll get his backstory fleshed out more so we can understand what makes him tick lol, but it's fun sharing different interpretations in the meantime.

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Not once did I suspect Ji-heon, but while reading your post I could see why you suspected him. You brought up some intriguing points and they make sense! I'm glad I didn't suspect him, otherwise I would have been further on the edge of my seat than I already am while watching each episode.

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Lol, I was in utter agony!! Tbh it mostly occurred to me because he’s my favourite and him being RC would have devastated me, so I suspected him early on to argue with myself over evidence for and against the idea and thus convince myself that he wasn’t suspicious 😆

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"mc"?

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Main Character. I mean tbh, technically there are four leads in this show, but I’ve always felt like the focus was 65% WK and 35% JH, making him a sort of secondary main character.

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I didn’t the ending of this episode was coming. I was so shocked with Ha-jung decision....

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#didn’t see... 😬

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The main push for her to commit suicide was probably the shame she would face, since it sounded like many haters of abusers were going to be out for her blood and to discredit her. I just wish that she'd done it somewhere her daughter would not have seen her corpse. Poor Bit Na.

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It seems most of viewers just refuse to accept Woo-kyung to be the killer. Well, common sense tells us, story is running out of candidates for that job. The only other possible candidates left are: WK’s husband, WK’s mother, WK’s sister Se-kyung and lastly, Lee Eun-Ho.

If we exclude WK’s husband and mother (planning for murder while babysitting at same time is not easy, and they really have no motive), then there are just two candidates left.

Se-kyung would be absurd, unless Korean doctors are all unlicensed, it would be unthinkable if doctors and the hospital nurses are fooled that easily.

Lastly, Lee Eun-Ho. If he is Red Cry, logic is out of window. I doubt it would be possible for him to know Woo-kyung’s every move, even if he has a tracker on her and bugged her phone. To be able to track another person’s where about and conversations in such detail without ever been discovered or caught on camera, he is better than the best NSA agent. Furthermore, It doesn’t explain how WK discovered the body (Ha Na’s mother) in the warehouse.

If we replay the last few minutes and notice the last moment Ha-jung with WK. That smile is almost saying, “so, it’s you.” How will Eun-Ho even knows she went to the restroom?

Base on logic, just one explanation left, Red Cry is WK or WK’s split personality, her other ego.

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The thing is, we can easily argue that you've got evidence in your favour because the writer is very clearly dangling 'WK is RC' as a concept she wants viewers to be concerned about. Whether that's to increase tension with a red herring or leave hints at the true culprit, we can't say.

The opinions of those in the WK/=/RC group all vary depending on the person, but for me personally it's that the things pointing at WK are too heavy-handed to be legitimate, that there are easy alternate explanations, that WK being RC doesn't fit from a storytelling perspective, and that there are many other hints at another person being RC which make more sense both logically and story-wise.

Rather than go into that though, I'm just gonna point out that there are several holes in your argument:

I'll start with the hard evidence: Red Cry's hands.

Lee Hye Sun was killed by a man, whose hand we see. Whenever Bit Na's mother was conversing with Red Cry on the laptop, we were shown what seem to be the same hands typing on another laptop- and those hands are not WK's. WK's hands are a little wrinkly and veiny and bulgy, whereas RC's hands are thin, smooth, young, and masculine.

Unless you want to argue that WK has gotten a younger and male accomplice to type out all her correspondences on her behalf and also happens to know exactly what she wants to say exactly when she wants to say it through some telepathic link, I'd say that Occam's Razor gives us the simplest explanation: the man corresponding on a laptop as Red Cry is Red Cry, and thus is not WK.

As for it being impossible for RC to track WK's movements and conversations without being caught:

First, no one has been looking for bugs in WK's office or phone, and no one has been looking for camera evidence of people following her, so the fact that none has been found isn't surprising. The police only looked into tech security at the centre, not bugs. They certainly haven't looked at WK's phone.

Second, if RC is able to engineer multiple conversations over phones and laptops without leaving a trace of evidence that can be found by the police's own tech expert, I don't think it's beyond RC to have a sophisticated tracking and bugging system that couldn't be easily found either.

Third, Red Cry doesn't work alone. If multiple people around WK (and around JH as well, I suspect) are involved in the conspiracy, then it'd be far easier for RC to keep track of everything happening (not only in WK's life, but in the children's centre and even the police station) and much harder for anyone to notice. You'd get one report from Bit Na's mother, one report from Eun Ho, one report from the tutor, etc. etc. and since none of them are constantly following anyone around or constantly surveying any one place, none of them would seem suspicious, let alone get caught.

Then, there is your objection about WK knowing about the body:

The...

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...thing is, we can't say that WK knew there was a body there specifically. She neither dreamed of a body, nor went looking for a body. She just went looking for something. Gonna just copy-paste a old comment of mine here:

'As for the mummy room, we can't really say WK 'knew' about the body. It seemed more like her dream was just a reflection of her anxious mind (and water building up until it bursts is far from a subconscious representation of a dead body). The fact that there really was something there isn't a one-in-a-million chance proving prior knowledge, but a likely probability, because whoever's behind these murders seems to be intimately linked to WK/her workplace anyway, and left the body in that room so that it would be found by someone. In conclusion, it wasn't really the little girl/prior knowledge that led WK to the body, but close proximity to the eye of the hurricane (and a leaky ceiling). '

And said leaky ceiling, I might add, may very well have been created by the same person who came to fix it --Eun Ho, what a coincidence-- so that WK would notice it, and would be bothered by it, and would maybe start to wonder what might be above her office.

In conclusion, this kdrama is written by a writer who's good at what they do. They're adept at leaving lots of legitimate clues and red herrings mixed together, and leaving it to viewers to decide which is which.

That's why a lot of possible interpretations are all logically possible, not just one or two. Those of the opinion that WK/=/RC have their own reasons and evidence and logic, not simple blind denial.

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I wrote it earlier it little girl is manifestation of WK subconscious, noticing something strange in the ceiling may be her subconscious bringing it up to her attention, after all HaNa and her mother had been living there for some time it would been only natural if WK seen HaNa and heard something from the ceiling but didn't pay enough attention before, but felt uneasy about it.

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Allll evidences and theories aside, it just boils down to one simple fact. This is not real life, this is fiction. And when a fiction creator, especially a thriller writer, points all suspicion to one character from day one, the audience tend to disbelieve it, and look for alternative explanations.

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So it is not a case of "most of viewers just refuse to accept Woo-kyung to be the killer". It is just normal audience psychology.

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This is how innocent people are made criminals though. There's nothing in all that you've written but pure speculation and circumstantial evidence.

I would admit that WooKyung deserves to be prime suspect because she's just too close to everything, but there isn't anything that confirms definitely that she's the mastermind/ Red Cry. Red Cry could be a group, which would mean they could know everyone's every movement because there are so many of them; could be someone we haven't yet met or expected... who knows. Honestly, that's more plausible than someone having split personality again. That'll be like dozen of these tortured people running amok in Dramaland.

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LOL @peeps Long time no read!

I was toying with either WK or Eun Ho having split personalities but not both!!! 😆

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Right?

And seeing you just reminded me of the last recap of Just Between Lovers that I have yet to upload. (I finished it long ago but faltered on following through with the pictures and upload. 🤦‍♀️)

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Heh! Thanks for remembering! I didn't want to bug you about it, but I've been checking once in a very blue moon.

How about forgetting about the pictures and just put in what your wrote?

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I'll get it done by this year, promise.

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Man, I just about had a panic attack when Ji Heon dropped that bomb about his childhood, and I certainly didn't expect the 1st time he mentioned it to be in front of a hypocritical child abuser.
I... have never cried from this show so much b4 this ep. Maybe Bit Na's story hits me more than the others, like the recapper said. When Bit Na talked with Woo Kyung. Even when Ha Jung fell and Bit Na screaming for her mother.

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I'm pretty sure every East and South East Asian household has that "Rod of Love" in their household though. At least, it was very common until maybe the turn of the century. I even had mine too. Doesn't mean everyone got beat up like BitNa. BitNa's case is definitely Child Abuse. And the way JiHeon said it, seems like he had a harsh experience with it too.

Mine was used maybe 3 times in my entire life... And the last time it was used was when I was 9. Mostly by my dad, cos when my Mom tried, I snatched it from her (after a tug of war where she promised not to hit me if I let go, LOL) and broke it KungFu style. Yes, I was a dramatic child. I don't think the "Rod of Love" meant Child Abuse in my case though, so I was actually ambivalent when I saw it.

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The rod in this show was a mighty thick stick though. As far as I've seen, the ones over here are thinner pliant bamboo canes. They leave thin red weals/cuts.

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True. For some people, the "Rod of Love" is anything near the upset parent at that point in time.

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Exactly. Canes, sticks, rulers, whatever, is a usual thing. (I live in Southeast Asia) And they're meant to discipline, used by teachers and parents, never to hurt children to the point of leaving scars. The one in this drama, however, is just ridiculously massive. That's why I didn't even associate it with what we usually get.

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I'm honestly giving up on trying to guess who's the GDG is, it's giving me headaches and not enough clues. But I'm more than ever intrigued by RC. I think now it's kinda safe to assume there's an actual network of child vigilantes, whose cooperative knowledge and accesses to various info/places allows to commit the crimes without getting caught. With Bit-na's mother, we see the case when the member of said organization turned out to be one of the targets. I think her suicide was, in addition to her discovery that she's hurting her child, due to her feeling guilty cuz she was helping to carry out those crimes. I also think Eunho definitely plays a significant role in the organization, he must be at least an informant if not the mastermind himself.

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Woo-kyung really doesn't get a break from tragedies with Ha-jung attempting suicide in front of her, in addition to blaming herself for her sister's coma, accidentally striking Suk-woo and losing her unborn child. I hope she doesn't have another mental breakdown.
Red Cry are probably thinking that murder is the answer to punishing child abusers as they don't spend decades behind bars (and in some cases, I heard that parents convicted of either physical or sexual abuse in Korea STILL have custody of their children after they're freed), but they should think about the kids and the surrounding people who could be mentally affected by wishing for the death of the abusers. But I think Bit-na's mother was fearing savage murder like how all the parents end up under Red Cry, rather than social repercussion because she accepted all of her charges.

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So after this episode we can at least suspect that Red Cry is a group of vigilantes or that he has willing accomplices and one of them was BitNa mom. She must known something about murders, hence why she was so secretive with her online activity, furthermore she knew what Red Cry mean when he wrote that everybody was disappointed in her and for her to be her own judge. For me it means she was willing murder accomplice and that she wasn't the only one, that might be explanation why it can't be pin to one suspect, because there is more than one killer

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Why do I feel that storybook where the kids turn into Red Moon & Blue Sun actually means that they died. Or was the red and blue means bruises which could also mean they were hurt.

Could either of Woo Kyung's parent be abusive? I always thought Step-Mom is the abusive parent after she slapped Woo Kyung in the ward which made Woo Kyung fear of her wrath and asked for forgiveness immediately after. It seems to have a hidden meaning or feeling in this scene that we do not know of. But then if Woo Kyung remembers Step-Mom who only came after her mother's death, which means she remembers everything with her Step-Mom.

Thus, I come to believe that it is probably Mom or Dad that was abusive. Looking at Step-Mom being coldly-caring towards Woo Kyung and the amount of memories she's been hiding from Woo Kyung, makes me think that probably, Dad is abusive towards Mom, then Mom took it out on her kids/ Woo Kyung. Why do I feel like Woo Kyung is the younger sister instead but was given different identity by Dad since she couldn't remember, to cover up the dark history and suppress her feelings.

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It is an actual Korean folktale of origin of sun and moon:
http://folkency.nfm.go.kr/en/topic/detail/6006

I think there is definitly abuse in WK family past and her stepmom is a guardian of family secrets and try to keep WK from finding out about her past.

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The question is why would the stepmom hide it? She got no reason to. Because she most probably not the abuser nor victim (as of what we know now). She does not act like one, if she was an abuser, I believe her habit to abuse would be hard to conceal. All she ever did to WK is slap her once.

If she is a victim, Dad died, so what is she so afraid of.

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Probably because she fears it might do more harm to tell than to hide...

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I think that people in older generation has this habit to hide unsavoury things rather than talk them over, to keep family reputation spotless and step mom is now part of that family even if it not biological connection, maybe she thinks it's better for WK to know? After all her husband tried extra hard to erase whatever had happened?

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true, looking at how step mom cleared the storage shows that she really tried hard to keep WK away from her childhood memories. Step mom seems to obey Dad a lot in this case. If it is true that Dad is the one who conspire this whole fake childhood facts.

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I have some theories to throw around to you guys.

1. The green dress that WK loved was never described as new with tags, so could it be a hand-me-down from WK's mother? That might explain why WK felt strongly about the dress.

2. If the green dress belonged to WK's mother, and GDG looks like WK, could GDG - at least in appearance only - be WK's mother? I don't know at what point pictures went missing from the family album, but my mother still has her childhood pictures, so there's a chance that WK saw her mother's childhood pictures at least once in the past.

WK's mother has also been suggested to have had a mental illness. Mental illness can come from abuse, or can be a way of dismissing someone who's trying to communicate their abuse (think of Sang-Mi in Save Me). Could WK's mother have been a victim?

If she's WK's avatar, then WK could be using a child avatar because of the situation they're in, the job she holds etc. She also struggles to remember her mother's face, and she could have witnessed something that helped her blot out her memory of her adult mother's face, but maybe the child version is still in her subconscious.

Ugh, I told myself I'd stop making theories and guessing. But after these episodes I couldn't help it!

I just want to throw out that I agree with @gadis that Red Cry is not some twisted champion for children, they're also now active in the traumatising of children. After seeing Bit-Na's case, I actually felt tears in my eyes. I felt so badly for her. But more than that, I saw how in spite of her anger and bitterness, she still loves her mother more than anything. She even showed up for the meeting at the cafe voluntarily.

I think, in her heart of hearts, she wanted to be separated from the situation to try and force some healing and some changes, but always had the hope that one day things would improve. Sometimes, even when abuse is involved, all people want is a heartfelt apology and the chance to forgive and build a new better relationship with the people they love.

And now Bit-Na's hopes are shattered. She's witnessed her mother bleeding out face-down on the ground. I doubt she'd tell anyone that Red Cry saved her and that she's grateful.

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After HaNa mother I was sure that Red Cry is out for some twisted revenge not really thinking about children left behind. Hana mother was homeless teenger, who lived of trash, married an abusive older guy, it was obvious that her daughter abuser was dad not he, she tried to protect her child in only way she know, she wasn't the one who deserved to be killed. But it shows that Red Cry is someone of middle class background who have no idea what poverty and abuse do to people and isn't really interested in helping those children, they are just excuse for him.

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You could be right - it gives off the air of someone championing a cause they have no root connection to or deep knowledge of. It could even be bandwagoning, since we know a lot of protest groups were active around the start of the show.

I even toyed with the idea that Red Cry might not be one, but several people. Then there would have the added element of conflicts of interest, different view points and different motivations all being stuffed behind the same mask.

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I think one of the reason this case of abuse was so heartbreaking is because we got deeper into the analysis of a relationship between an abusive parent and a child. It is unfortunately, complex and ambivalent. Sometimes it is urgent for the child to be far away from their abusive parent and cut all contacts, but actually most of the time it is much more complicated than that, and brings out all sort of contradictory feelings , as the link between a child and their parent is deep, full of unspoken words and feelings, as well as rooted into the family's history.
For example, the case of the poor mother and her abused daughter deserved a similar treatment, when it comes to the writing of the drama imo. Actually same for the porn-star....
Anyway, the episodes are getting better and better.

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There is a lot of criticism when I pointed out that logically, WK is the only candidate that can be the killer. I am not saying she has to be the killer, what I am saying is, if she is not the killer, this would be another K-drama suspense thriller where only story matters, common sense and logic are unnecessary. Here are just example of some holes story digs into:
We now know little girl of green dress is not supernatural or a ghost, but part of WK’s subconscious, so ep 6, little girl points to ceiling above that leads WK to the crime scene. How could WK’s own subconscious leads her to a crime scene that she has truly never been?
It’s more than obvious that Red Cry knows WK’s every move. OK, say Red Cry is tracking her and bugs her phone, so he knows WK is meeting Min Ha Jung that day. How can Red Cry possibly know MHJ will use the Restroom? The logic couldn’t be clearer, since both women have received detective’s warning, so the only person that can still carry out the murder despite the warning is WK. Otherwise, what if MHJ didn’t go to the restroom alone or ask WK to go with her, how will a third person gets a chance to kill her?
Red Cry may be able to bug WK’s phone, but how could he call Kim Dong-sook using WK’s number and tells her about insurance? While it is not impossible to hijack someone’s number, it is very hard; otherwise phone and ISP companies will be all out of business, right? Since WK has no recollection of it when Dong-sook insists it was her number, she would’ve immediately realize there is someone using her number to carry out crime, why did she ignore that?
Actually the list goes on if Red Cry turns out to be someone else. BUT it is a K-drama doctrine that all villains MUST be caught at least twice! Serial murders ALWAYS manage to escape because police never ever guard the most dangerous criminals after they are captured.

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We know that WK found a body, but we don't know what her subconcious tried communicate to her when the girl pointed at the ceiling, after all HaNa and her mother lived there for a few months.
HaJung was in contact with Red Cry, she communicate with him all the time, she commited suicide, WK was only a witness.
Kim Dong Sook was convinced that it was WK that communicated with her as Red Cry because of information in her files that we know almost everyone in children center has access to due to it's director handing password to everyone who asked. And all communication about it was in a chat room Sora mother never talk with Red Cry over the phone. Whenever she called WK it was via payphone, so WK could never called her back, because she didn't have working phone at that time.

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Jh has always trusted WK or at least defended her when others would suspect her but I am afraid with the way he looked at her in the last scene that bond or trust may start to break and I feel WK needs an ally in this, someone she knows she can turn to and will take her seriously and won't ridicule her.

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Anybody suspects Woo Kyung's psychiatrist? It's just a hunch🤔

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