I agree. She is so terribly one tone, so miscast. To top it, she is not investing anything to make the character look authentic. The make up team has done a dismal job.

You're definitely right about Myung-ha. Except that is in theory. In theory we expect Myung-ha to be thankful he's not dead. If not for the negotiation of the previous Queen he'd be six feet under.

In Myung-ha's eyes, his father died an unjustly death and in the most undignified manner. And with the aid of selective amnesia, he's forgetting that he forged the confession letter that prompted the scenario play out that way. In Myung-ha's eyes, it was a failed attempt that cost his father's life, but in no way was it unjust in Myung-ha's eyes.

If anybody has a right to come for Lee In's head, it's Hee-soo and Chu Dal-ha. Add in Myung-ha's selective amnesia of the version of events and we see him delusionally thinking he has a right to point fingers.

I always hesitate to criticize an actor because I'm afraid of how other people might react, but this time , I decided to overcome any reluctance and agree with you here. Of course it goes without saying that I have nothing against her personally (and I shouldn't even have to put that caveat, but I'm just being safe), but I am frustrated with Shin Se-kyung's performance. She has a lovely voice (which is perfect for Saeguks), but I'm continually left wanting more from her. Her expressions never really change, and I'm just not convinced by her performance.

Regarding Myung-ha: I can understand the pain of losing his father, but I hope he knows deep down inside how much of a snake his father was.

Agree.. FL and her acting, also SML and his motives make no sense
( i don't know which show of FL's have people been watching to say she is a good actress.. she has such a long history to show she is not a good or versatile actress)
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she , as a character, thinks she is super smart.. when all her decisions are just so off

again agree.. ML is too good, as always.. the voice modulation, nuanced expressions.. all good

Shin Se-kyung's acting isn't the problem for me. Her facial "gestures" are always there and you can tell what she's thinking - show irrespective. The whole time, the ML and FL are playing baduk, board or not. That's been evident since ep1 - her "poker face" is awesome - it is in every show I've seen her in.

There’s indeed something I dislike about our heroine. Acting is fine for me but her character’s quiet moralizing about how she’s right and the king is wrong is a bit off-putting. I don’t think the writer made a convincing case for the revenge. The stakes are just not high for me. I understand that her best friend died but I really didn’t see much of their friendship to get invested in that friendship on a deep emotional level. All I know about Hongjang is that she’s a friend who helped her dress up as a male and gave a good advice here and there. Because I’m not yet on her side, I find Heesoo dislikable, making a lot of assumptions about what happened to her without trying much understanding the King. If she really loved him (like she fancied herself) and really held him in high regard, why didn’t she even make an attempt at getting an explanation from him? Trying to understand a situation as a bigger picture? That BOTH of them were pawns of this tragic political dangerous game? Again, she just made a lot of black-and-white assumptions, and this is why I find her character a bit two-dimensional and off-putting. And whatever happened to her hostage rescue “hobby”? I’m a bit confused about her background and what does she actually want to get from the king apart from some misguided grand notion that Hongang death must be avenged. 🤔

When the King said to Mong-woo in that menacing tone that he "remembered everything about" her, I thought perhaps he did put two and two together long ago, perhaps when he went to visit her father. But there are other times, as when he's speaking to himself and using "he/him" pronouns, that I think we're supposed to accept that this is some sort of brilliant disguise that has fooled everyone. JJS is definitely playing an awareness of her as a woman, whether or not the character himself has realized the truth. That is, there is obvious sexual and intellectual attraction there, and it's possible the King is fully aware of it and why he feels that way (i.e. he knows that she's a woman).

Both leads seem to have one main personality trait in common: they're both very good at rationalizing what they want or feel they need to do as unselfish because it also benefits others. The King lies and goes against his brother's wishes so he can take the throne, and tells himself and others that he's doing so because a young Grand Prince easily manipulated by corrupt officials would be harmful for the People. Hee-soo tricks everyone into believing she's a man and puts those around her in harm's way first so she could help out the less fortunate and now, so she can spare the People a deceitful King. In both cases, the two of them are genuine victims of political and social mores and are also at times correct in their presumption of their own ability to do good. At the same time, they use other people as pawns, have a very narrow view of justice (and that view benefits themselves), and act as though their primary desires (to rule and to play baduk) never came into play.

I do like that they're both gray characters in this way, and they're well matched on this level.

I 100% thought he'd figured it out a few episodes together when they played baduk and then he had her help him get dressed after getting cut by the ruffian dudes.

Their interactions have always been fairly loaded with tension either good or bad. And it's only just occurring to me now that if he really doesn't have any inkling, then he thought his male baduk friend was good friends with a gisaeng who died. Interesting.

"Why did I have this feeling a couple of times that he suspects her of being a female?"

I really wish that would be the case. In my comments for the first two episodes, I wondered if he might have realized she was a woman during the scene in which she was helping him dress.

i think he does not know she is female based on ep 7 preview.. but then i think we have a case of coffee prince..

he has had his feelings for him and it is confusing given he is a man

I also feel so sorry for the queen. She just looks so pale and terrified all the time. I hope she gets a happy ending.

It's so fun to watch them push and pull and plan ahead of each other. On the king's part it definitely feels like every move he makes is designed to show Hee-Soo/Mong-Woo that he is the one in control and has the upper hand in their relationship. Which is super interesting because I think it betrays more than anything that he is still so fascinated by Mong Woo. So even with all his scheming it really doesn't help him if I think about it. It just shows that he sees Mong-Woo as someone he needs to think about a lot.

And then on Mong-Woo's side its fun to watch her try to plot for the king's downfall is so interesting because whenever she's NOT with him I believe her- she wants him off the throne. But when I see her together with him, it feels obvious that she's got more feelings left than just anger. So that's fun.

I also loved that her first big play was to save a cornered stone (the queen). The king likely would have sacrificed the queen and had her punished. But Mong Woo found a way to save her and may gain a valuable ally in the process.

I also think that she is a talented actress. But I do think that she plays the role very well. I mean, she is a nerd. What kind of a noble women would have played baduk in that era? Certainly not one with a lot of charisma or charming qualities. Or fun to be around. She has other qualities that match a baduk player, inteligence but also the ability to keep a straight face while thinking/playing/planning her moves. Think of her as a modern chess player, the only thing that is missing are some glasses. That is her role and her mind and talking are the qualities that make her attractive to our king.
Strolling through the twitter feed I stumbled upon a translation of a BTS segment and it made me laugh thinking about the bad reviews she has been getting lately here and elsewhere. Literally, the director says that she is supposed to say the line with a flat face. Damn if she does, damn if she doesn't, right? I know that everyone has a right and should say anything, but when it gets overly repetitive, one must also think of recent suicides blamed on the reactions of netizens.
I am posting a link to that BTS twitter translation, I don't know if is the correct because I don't understand korean but maybe someone does and will confirm it.
https://twitter.com/__simba10/status/1754417946175107129

I know we can't look for too much realism here, but it would a total political crisis if the King truly has not slept at least once with the Queen and any of the concubines. The whole ceremony of him taking them, as it were, is that there is a First Night. So even if, in his mind, he's just a placeholder for his nephew (and I do believe he's probably telling himself that even if he's open to circumstances demanding that he stay on as King in the future), it's hard for me to fathom that he's managed to avoid having sex with any of the various court women. And if the rumors are true and not a ruse, then he's sleeping around with non-Royals, a situation that also could result in a heir, albeit an illegitimate one. So it's hard to know exactly what's going on here. My sense is that he has slept with a variety of women, but in typical kdrama fashion, it's all happening off-screen and will not result in a pregnancy.

for sure.. he is holding the throne and won't have a child else his mother will do more damage

i mean what can costume dept do? fake adam's apple..

ofcourse no woman is going to pass off as man in joseon dramas

Myung Ha is bound to suffer the consequences. I doubt Hee Soo has forgiven him his part in that fake testimony that lead to Hong Jang's death. I highly doubt she is only after the King. Myung Ha, the principal director and his cohorts will all have their comeuppance.

I actually think the revenge plan for Hee Soo feels really in line with Hee soo's character so far and purposefully not super thought out (as like a writing choice not just shoddy writing).

She's a brilliant baduk player, yes, but she has 0 political scheming experience. She's also proven she can be a bit risky when she thinks she's doing the right thing (by dressing up as a man in the first place to gamble for ransom money).

I also think she's not as firm in her resolve for revenge as she thinks she is. She also strikes me as hurt and confused about what happened to change the man who she thought she'd deeply connected with- the man who put himself in physically in harm's way to save her once before- into someone willing to sacrifice her and her friend overnight. After he'd specifically told her he'd save her, no less.

I think she wants revenge, but she also just wants answers. And if the answers put her back on his side, then it'll be easier to believe the switch if we didn't buy her revenge plans to begin with.

I totally forgot about jealous Court Lady Dong. Her antics at Yeonchwigwang breathed jealous girlfriend whose boyfriend won't allow her share the same spoon with him. Be content with being the Queen of the King's quarters ma'am. Yeonchwigwang has its own Court Lady Dong.

I also think Lee In didn't kill prince Deok Seon. I think you're right- his patron killed him because he'd been found out or something. I could be wrong though. If I am, I'll be super disappointed in Lee In. I'm holding out through the angst on the premise that he's playing somewhat of the long game and won't be murdering people left and right. That he's still a little bit of a good guy I can root for ahaha

"I don't think Lee In killed Prince Deok-seon though. That was the designs of the principal director, or whoever his patron is."

I agree.

“I do not feel anything for the FL's quest for vengeance.” For a time being this is the biggest problem of the series. Her revenge quest isn’t “well-deserved” for me. It comes across as petty and a bit amateurish and childish, giving way to all sorts of off-putting moralizing. Girl, have you even asked the King WHY he behaved the way he did?

I like everything else about the series, including many awesome references to Baduk.

She attached herself to one of the ministers. At first glance, I think it is the one who was acting like he was financing none of the applicants. I'm guessing he's the same person who's directly in Cahoots with the Queen Dowager and also the Lee In's uncle plus Prince Deok-seon's patron.

But then, it seems like she approached Principal Director because he's tied to Deok-seon and she had a direct access to Deok-seon. So I'm guessing the man who took her in is the minister who resigned during the whole fiasco 3 years ago who is also a close friend of Lord Kang. She was always dressed as a female when in the presence of that person and I don't think she'll reveal that aspect of herself to Principal Director.

"Personally, I find her poise and gracefulness to be refreshingly different." Me too, @zindigo! Well said.

JJS is incredible here and gets to bring a lot of fire to his performance which is great to watch. But SSK is having to play someone who has tight reins on her emotions, and who is respectful of the King. She doesn't get to be as explosive as JJS...That's just the nature of the role.

Totally agree they are great counterpoints and their different energies are creating some amazing chemistry!

The heavens have blessed us. Praise the dramalords.

From what I understand, it's only this weekend because of the Lunar New Year (or something like that). I read somewhere that the KKW is not showing this Friday so they are trying to get their ratings high. That works for me great, I cannot wait for this weekend, these coming episodes are supposed to be even better from what they are saying. JJS sayed that it will be like a glass filled with water that will spill any moment and than there will be flooding. Episode 8, specially, is mentioned to be just as great, or even better than the fourth one.

What a gorgeous treat and great news! You just made this girl very happy. 🥰

CONT'D

5) Lee-In's initial betrayal of Mong-woo was classic game-theory move -- cornered, he felt he did not have the luxury of the function of "time" to work to his benefit. When every play is a one-shot interaction, you can only seek to optimize your pay-off in that one shot (as though this is a snapshot of time, with no past or future to speak of).

In such a case, the only pragmatic thing to do is to "defect" (where prisoners must all defect and betray each other for optimized play). The tragic pathos happens because Mong-woo held on to a promise he made her: that he will save them (promises are actualized in the future, unforch)

6) So when there is a time leap of 3 years -- I thought that is very interesting. Because time (the 4th dimension) is needed to win a game, after saving a cornered stone. You need time to build up and expand your territories (stones). Notice the opening credits: the stones on a Baduk board are people.

In these ensuing three years, both Lee-In and Mong-woo are busy and quietly building and expanding their control of space on the board, just biding their time to make their killer move.

The deep irony is of course, NO ONE saved them. No one took pity on them and saved that "poor cornered stone". They both saved themselves -- Lee-In changed the King's last words and elected himself king; Mong-woo escaped the sword and survived a plunge into the depths.

Callback to: the two pebbles in the river bed that Lee-In once picked out for Mong-woo in happier times. One white, one black. He smiled and said he would gift it to her. She told him to hold it for her. She would claim it the next time they play.

7) I thought it was very intriguing how a bet midway through a game changed their dynamics and decision making. When Mong-woo suggested to the king they should make a bet he became flustered and then asked if it would be too rude to sweep the stones off and start a fresh game. It makes me anticipate how their Machaivellian strategizing would evolve both on the board, in love, and in life itself.

"Had Myung-ha built up the territory around the cornered stone subsequent to the save, he would have won the game, not Mong-woo. BUT he did not (or rather, he did not have the game proficiency to do so and so he lost)."
THIS! In retrospect, it confirms that our King is a great strategist and thinks the things through long-term (so refreshing to see in men, lol!). He's such a great politician. He’s saying basically, had Myungha had more territory=power=influence he’d be able to protect the stone but could not because he was powerless, meaning the newly crowned King was powerless to rescue Hongjang at that time.

I love your BADUK analysis! I'm going to re-read it again to once I have time.

Yes, the facial hair really suits him.