Beanie level: Rooftop room dweller

if u know anything abt me (even if it’s negative) would i like beyond evil do u think i rly like yeo jin gu as in i dont like younger men but i gosh golly just like him a lot like looking at him i mean i like to look at him his body is so big and stocky smdh so like i cant rly say i have a frame of reference except i saw him on that ep of house on wheels with uhm tae gu (which was fucking amazing all of it it was so nice) and i was liek who is this strapping large young man soooooooo…….ANYWAY

god lmao i just found out hes 23 and i think my singleness just….went down from about a 10 to a 4.5 i truly do not think i can deal with anyone who isn’t like at least 3 yrs in my age range. ur either too old or a fucking infant im 29 and id arrest myself for it and i dont even believe in cops

i think it’s cos i am extremely aware of the fucking nightmare i was at 23 oh my god

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    Hahaha this is exactly a conversation some of us were having the other day. +/- 3 kinda sorta works, but beyond that is just weird….

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      lmao right? its like too much of a difference. when i turn 30 i am gonna feel weird even talking to my friends who are like 27 lmao ;-;

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    Um… so do you want to know if you would like the show or if you would survive lusting after the inappropriately young Jingoo?

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    everyone more than 3y younger than me is a puppy at best
    puppies are cute!

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    I find where if I’m watching something older where the early 20s actor was age appropriate/too old for me at the time I can still appreciate them (especially if it’s something I saw when it was new) but current actors of the same age now I’m like “my god you child, how can anyone take you seriously”

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i was already side-eyeing but uhhhhhh lmao this took a turn

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guys what are u watching does anyone like undercover? cos i love the cast
what\’s up
im so bored
i have also managed to piss off even more people than i usually do so that\’s good lmao
seecond vaxx coming on friday! and! and u guys! i might have GOOD NEWS like joiing and art collective. so i am not going to die even though ive also worried so many ppl who keep texting me like \”bitch r u ok or\”
yes
i am here

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    I’m definitely gonna check Undercover out. Actually I recommend the original BBC version. At 6 episodes, things get awfully rushed towards the end, so perhaps the Korean remake will be an improvement in that respect. All the best with the second dose!

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      it’s tomorrow, i can’t believe it!

      oh ok i will put it on my list! last uk show i watched was line of duty and i ate. that. shit. up. i am gonna watch the new season even if it’s copaganda i loved it. lmaooo

      if undercover is written well i trulllyyyy think itll be great ji jin hee chooses such interesint projects! and tysm!

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i was so upset lmao im not anymore but i guess denial of terror is triggering. hello i am black lmao anyway hi what do i watch i dont knowwww IM BORED! i have things to do but idont want to do them sooooo

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been yelling at ppl on MDL for so long bc of snowdrop. after what happened in the past week in the US, esp in georgia, it is disgusting to me how they can\’t seem to understand why this would hurt people and tie it back to how this directly affects asian people.

we\’ve been lied to our whole lives about history. our governments covering up and censoring. we know that britain literally threw papers overboard to lie about the trauma. so in tower bridge what they say is that their torture wasnt that bad. no europeans are gross and ruthless and ruined the world. but it wasn\’t that bad, right? (*european history and white supremacy adn capitalism\’s reign through it. but europe is the reason why these issues have happened. europe is why the US is here and why chattel slavery is now one of the most influential and disgusting legacies that exist in every pore of our lives and world now as black people are property always. anywhere. that is what they bred.)

i can\’t take people saying that it\’s ok that htey lied and murdered people bc of red scare. it\’s everything i\’ve been told so much. they can\’t say slavery is something we liked or we woudl hav eleft. that\’s what it reminds me of. and knowing that peoples lives were ruined over there because of so much history and unfairness AND bc of the US (who failed to fucking enter WWII at a time until it was beneficial for them bc WE ARE THE WOOOOOOOOOOOORST FUCK BUT THANKS A LOT ANGLAND) so ive just been telling ppl theyre selfish assholes and fuck them bc im mad. mad mad mad.

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    They are selfish assholes.

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      they really are. must be nice, huh

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        I’m sure I’m a selfish asshole in my own way, but I do try to learn how to not be a stupid selfish asshole and to see the historic and systemic erasure and marginalization of others in order to pretend that well, white peoples just be better at things. We’re not. We’re terrible. But historically we’re pretty spectacular at being selfish assholes.

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          we all are!!! i accidentally erased part of my comment in my…posts or w/e but i was like man we all have our things that we can use against other people. our own power and then what happens when we are marginalized but i guess you have to realize that to actually then recognize pain and empathize better. idk cos part of my blackness is the automatic learning of more empathy i think (this is a long-ass theory but im not making it up~)~)~)~)) and yea i mean european culture and that from it is not about that. fueled by individualism and capital bla bla. and even when we are generous by removing race its even worse if americans will talk about this shit like they know. esp if theyre white american. they have 0 clue how our country has affected others and they don’t really matter. RME

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          god i was so angry i was like r u guys fucking serious rn u sound DERANGED and really bloodthirsty

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oh im referring to snowdrop in all of these. however, @cubely was not! my apologies, seriously. they were just referring to MQ so though my stuff stands in gen that isn’t what they were implying! i am sorry i totally thought we were on the same drama page. im a dummy. but yea that was the MDL page for an “article” on snowdrop and the petition against it bc it has a figur ein it that is….not good.

re: mrqueen and other things, i dont really care but it’s kinda funny that the writer didn’t do consultations esp after what happened with MQ. yea it’s kinda dumb i guess (i dont know enough and i honestly just dont feel like looking bc i just dont care) i dont really feel bad for companies that feel pressured over dumb shit lmao i think theyre doing it on purpose to make it look like everyone is just complaining. actually what i do know is that they do it to make it look like theyre listening. classic neolib shit i think.

i do know that since it was joseon descendants being upset with the portrayal in exorcist, that definitely had more pull than if it were a small sect of people. and some petitions are ridiculous, yes. i just don’t want us to paint south koreans and people in gen as people who know nothing and just overreact. we’re seeing the rise of that language but when i-fans (asian or not guys) are discussing this shit you can’t just say they love to complain and cancel culture is migrating from the US like the comment from MDL replied (https://www.dramabeans.com/members/boughtabride/activity/1216433/). this is why radicals need to teach schoolchildren smdh im over it.

bottom line thou never trust corporations, companies, and question the government always esp to what they are doing to their people and why the things needed to be done. the public is not what moves the ruling class to not oppress unless they take and demand. this is not an example of that and believe that the evil ones are the ones with the most money and fame not trying to help others. it’s them. they have all the calculated moves they can make with money and strategy and we do not. we have to constantly consume. so that means we know our enemy. it isnt fellow citizens.

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here’s the REAL gross part, real censorship. the fact that in the US, there are laws in places where people can get fired for supporting BDS, which is trying to use boycott and divesting to end israeli apartheid. we can support the destruction of the palestinian people and ignore them but we have to protect the ethnic cleansing. people can lose their work because they care about our siblings on the other side of the earth. btw, part of what helped the collapse of SA apartheid is what? boycotts. so now the US has anti-boycott laws to protect israel. and even then, apartheid in SA can never truly be over without the freedom of palestine. again, all connected.

that is censorship and it is a retelling of the truth. if you were to watch an american film you would have the worst ideas about what happens over the middle east. in wonder woman the scene recreated where this woman who was IRL in the IDF goes to save those hapless brown children. it mimics a really sad event that happened (and happens frequently) while palesetinian kids got gunned down in the street. yea that’s fucking OFFENSIVE and disgusting and a lie. it’s just an action film though and yet. people literally beleive this. years of propaganda jesus christ. media means something bc it’s supposed to have lessons and truths and shit. we all get sth from it. so if people are told its this way they probably wont look it up or they will believe it. and why? because we’re not encouraged to think anyway.

we’ve made art and GOOOOD FUCKING SATIRE about ourf fukced up country. most times those things either get repressed or pulled. not always but sometimes like in arrested development’s case it was too dense and too much for the time. but the impression that it made on me is huge because it shaped a big understanding of a part of my american life that puts a lot of things into context. and that’s because the show didn’t lie about it. you go back and you can literally see certain truths they put in and put our history into cobtext within the satire. that is true satire because it is antagonizing something. but if the protagonist is going to be portrayed as part of some regime when that simply is not what happened then it fucks up the context of that period of time and sullies the idea of democritization and what those kids tried to do in gwangu.

arrested development always punched up to the american government and its disgusting failures and the reality of america in that time. if they were to imply that there were WMDs when there weren’t through their jokes, or have a character to even try and disprove that, poeple should absolutely complain.
we have the right to complain about fucking anything. it doesn’t mean you do anything about it but it just so happens that critique and complaint makes people be like fine. there’s some storylines i cannot stand in the show, there’s a black storyline that they should have gone WAY harder with with the satire (and it would help to include black people etc) but for the most part literally everything they had to say was punching up. annyong is a good example and while he isnt perfect there’s also an example of how things can be really hm…in poor taste or offensive but they’re done deftly in a way that it’s actually a joke and it exposes the absolute stupidity and racism of those around him. there’s a storyline that failed to make any point in s3 that focuses for 4 episodes on “mr. f” which means mentally retarded female. gosh that is OFFENSIVEEE GORLLLL and it wasnt funny right. but it got made and it’s out there. llmao. but when you try you can fail but you still try and had many hits. you have to take repsonsibility for the misses. oddly enough, the show hits (from s1-3) hard enough that people remember the jokes and the times in america. where they were ruthless in how much rich people uscked and the disgusting US government. hell in one gag they have at a lawyers office the pictures of nixon, bush, then the other bush (that’s how it was right? or wait nixon bush….reagan yea. oh god. disgusting monsters.) they never imply these people were good. they mention that while usually a picture seen with saddam would ruin a career, our leaders met with them. to ally with them. then destabilize their country. but imagine if you saw the show when you were younger and they didn’t make it clear? hmmmm

my critiques for the show are vast but even as a radical black female artist i appreciate so much of it esp for the time. and ostensibly they should have fucked up what that was soooo badly but they didnt. and it wasnt until years later we found out certain aspects that we hated but it didnt seep into the show and the things we hate in the show i either skip or critique but it is solid enough to continue. it doesnt introduce characters that are disgusting as anything but that even if in a comical manner.

and if you’re going to make a poltiical satire THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

but it’s. lmao this idea that some giants are taking some big hit because they decide to do basically slave holocaust war etc denial is hilarious. yea while we’re at it in the show let’s get a japanese spy as well and blame his death on that, too. come on lmao why do we think we arent being censored in ways that actually affect us but for everything else it’s like well what about MY enjoyment. and i dont really care about making the world better and thsse koreans in korea are being too LOUD bc they dont want a piece of work saying that north korea was behind the governments massacre of its own humans. the little braincells people received trying ot get things about capitalism via like “parasite” though thtey fail to realize its antagonizing of imperialism and american imperialism and capitalism (with a poor focus on women, but hes a man so) and it just all goes out the window. would BJH be okay with this lie? in true satire like inglorious basterds they got it right. i hate django unchained a lot and theres so much i can’t stand but not once did it imply that my people enjoyed slavery. there’s shit you need to be careful with and it isn’t the fault of the people who are few that give a fuck it’s the fault of the people that made it. thank you.

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a
edit: i finally figure out the word that wouldn’t let me post. it was the s word. and i was using it to explain park kyoung mi.tbh i feel like im being censored with that but i understand the rules o fthe website. am i complaining when i’m literally a libertrnsocislst (an*rchists vers of what i believe is the most distinct way to desribe me.) that’s how i identify to people when i introduce myself wiht like politics or whatever. i literally cannot type the words here without * in it. but this is not my domain even if i don’t like it.

this is in response to @cubely. i may seem angry and honestly its because i am. however this is in general to people who will come across this, to the people that like this post. it isn’t an attack on you but an attack on this idea and to puncture your argument. i’m very emotional about it because it is fucking atrocious to me the way this is being talked about. as a person who has been told to her face, in school, going to an all black middle school in america that slavery wasn’t that bad. hearing that from our first fucking lady. no that’s denial. the idea that we can QUESTION tragedy so we can shift blame to continue our fucked up disgusting osciety. on top of that this is NOT what those protesters if many had lived would ever fucking want.

what i want to know is: WHY HAVEN’T ANY OF YOU DONE ANY RESEARCH? GOOGLED? (general you) because if you did, maybe you’d get it.
_
cancel culture used to be called call out culture. and before that, it was being “too PC.” none of this is new and it’s utilized by capitalism and the ruling class to suppress. so i’ll start there. it’s not being a grey area, it just simply does not exist. what material conditions have come from canceling? and who has been losing their revenue because of it? it doesn’t exist. it’s called being human.

and i agree about the harassment. but i do not like this framing.

guys… this is their job. no, they did not sign up for pain but the public did not asked to look at them, the public is forced to. the public has a responsibility to take time for love and care. but i am sick of blaming reactions on the people as if the corporations and south korea itself doesn’t use its exports and creations as soft power. the me tuer of idols being blamed on the public instead of understanding the nuance. they NEED humans engagement and human beings can be mean. but not only does it get people to want that gross bullshit life, it gets people into it to work, and then gets people to flock to fame and exposure. the more we go on, the more we see wealthy people joining to be looked at (any industry.) so their pain has to be dealt with on a personal level, with regards to the public and what they are forced to watch, and how they are being exploited by their free will (in some cases) and not fighting their exploiter which IS NOT the public.

you’re asking a huge population of people to watch the spectacle and disgust that is celebrity and capitalism. that is dark korean people being told theyre ugly, that is women having to grasp at straws, lgbtq+ communities being absolutely at sea, racism towards black people, fatphobia, marginalizing your own groups. we put up with all of that in our own countries and we NEED to look at these people bc they are shoved in our faces and you’re saying that the harrassment is at the fault of the people solely and not the society that stacks this up? and not acknowledging the power they do have? social and/or fiscal capital. so this is already an unbalanced exchange. contextless to say the harrassment THEY get as if they arent touted out and as if they do not rely on the public. it isnt fair but part of it is staying in this industry. we all have to survive. people are scared this is a slippery slope….it’s not. we get censored all the time. but if big projects and companies are just SOOOO SCARED about it why dont they shop it to netflix? oh that’s right, they arent interested in making something they can actually pushed boundaries on, not happy with something broadcast solely on netflix (school nurse files) because of the lack of control. park kyoung mi picked it bc she’s literally a s*ci*list (ANOTHER WORD I CANNOT SAY……..) and didnt want to bow down to the pressure of a corporation on tv.

additionally. this is not the 15h century. it happened in 1987. did mr queen get canceled? is it over? it is also not wiped out, i don’t know what happened, but what you are saying is not factual. it exists and continues to be seen. who told you this and how did you come to this assessment? and considering it’s the SAME WRITER than wow it seems as if that’s a them problem potentially.

“But experts said that it is not a matter of constraint of imagination if producers get through historical research properly before creating characters or plots. They said broadcasters also need to set up cross-checking systems to review the production process and screen out problematic sources during pre-production.”

why is no one talking about this? why is the fault of the people who complain. for exorcist it was literal descendants of the joseon family. for this, it’s 100k people so far out of 50. FUCKING. MILLION. PEOPLE. IN. THEIR. COUNTRY.

and you are absolutely WRONG on the last sentence. dead wrong and it is ahistorical. six people liking this seem to have no idea what this means but that is a lie. it is a LIE. they do not want their government to deny that they murdered its own people to enforce a dictatorship, a coup, eliminate “c*mm*nism” (which i can’t even say on this website without fucking cnesoring it, a US based website focused on kdramas. do you understand what the red scare has done even on a basiv level? lmao)

with the red scare, and collude with the US to enact terror for imperial like power and fucking money to continue to persecute its people in south korea. how we got to the georgia shooting is literally able to be traced from the fucking pain enacted on asians domestically and abroad.

enough of this guys. do your research and understand. i am sorry but i won’t accept this. it’s akin to denying the occupation. or trying to erase figures that may have colluded with it. there’s laws against any type of holocaust denial. what this show does is not even FACTUAL and the “experts” are right because theyre human beings who love art and can think complexly.

it’s a lazy conclusion to make and it’s just lazy art tbh. if these companies are gonna buckle under pressure thats their goddamn problem. i’ve seen way worse and i’ll see better. south korean dramas are littered with shit i dont like and propaganda but there’s some real progressives trying. they cant totally succeed under capital but the show 60 day survivor wouldnt pull shit like this bc they RESPECT peopl eand the history. sorry i am really floored by that last sentence. you could not be more wrong. i really need people to research and care. i am not lining it out anymore but starting from the peasant revolution to today get an inkling on how connected we are globally and just how much people were destabilized and crushed in these uprisings. we are living in hell now and if anyone decided to make something and distort the facts of what happened in the US with covid they would be massacred. of course hten people would whine about cancel culture and censorship even tho it’s so oversimplified abd just fucking embarrassing for them to say so and conservatives would whine and then blame china or something then go around and say stop asian hate

so to me if ur gonna say stop asian hate and can’t grasp this then i’m just not gonna listen. to deny this history is denying our own, too. america said “this isn’t america” about the shootings. but it is. “this isn’t free speech” but it is. and artists are scared to create works now? you don’t have to shop it around to networks buddy. you can pave your own path. since you want to be under the mainstream then yuo better fucking get used to it.

we are all human beings on the same exact level but if a society ewants to propel others before us then i will not accept sole blame on the society who doesn’t have the power of being a celebrity who is now better than the poeple. an actor or a rich person who sees and has access to more than they ever will. the bullies are not the norm but rather aggregates and quite honestly ones that are encouraged by capitalism. it creates engagement.

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    *i wasnt alive for bush and i dont root for deaht but i dont care that he’s dead.

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    This is way too long, it was my fault for replying to you when honestly I’m not in the best shape to hold such a conversation, I’m not sure I can read it all…also I apologize for causing you so much trouble..

    I might come back to it later, but one thing though….there might be some misunderstanding here because what about 1987?! And mr queen??? And same writer??? I’m missing something…maybe there have been too many issues at the same time

    And yeah, mr queen have been removed from kr platforms, some kr fans themselves are protesting it, I didn’t make it up myself for fun ><

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      it’s ok dont worry. i’m sorry for not being clear because i don’t know what show you thought i was talking about! i meant “snowdrop” and the controversy there. i’m really sorry. but yea ia ctually agree with you about that lmao. the woman who wrote MQ wrote joseon exorcist tho so that’s sth to consider. read this if you want it’ll give you a much better and clearer thing https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2021/03/688_306272.html

      you didn’t ccause me any trouble. i just want to be clear and keep reiterating. dont worry though. it’s ok 🙂 the kr platforms ah…i am trying to find more news about this. that’s pretty bad. i do think that what they did in the show was satire and good one at that and it’s pretty strange to be upset over a show that has many critiques but also praises koreas (lukewarm, like everywhere else) progress! i am really ssad abt that so i wanna find out more in case we’re missing info.

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        Ah! I see!
        I was not thinking of Snowdrop when I wrote my first reply..I feel like the issue regarding that show is quite different from Joseon exorcist and Mr Queen (writer is a “he”, btw), and one that I wouldn’t even dare to address, really ><

        Anyways, so sorry for the confusion!

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          oh omg sry at misgendering, ty! and haha yea it is very different. a lot of ppl are saying it’s stupid for people to care and it makes me rabid.

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      also re ur last comment u were also talking abt mr queen lmao i totally thought we were coming at two diff avenues. anyways this is for everyone else tho 😉

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c*mmun*sm

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i can\’t post my comment bc of a word but idk which one lmao i am…

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red scare

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massacre

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i hope this is the greatest thing i will ever do.

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    I’m sorry, but it’s not the same case..yeah, when we talk about cancel culture in general it’s a grey area, people can have different opinions about it, I see your point..

    ..but the amount of harassment people involved in these dramas have been subjected to should not be excused, and honestly just results in undermining the original issue 😭
    They’re treated as if they’ve committed treason, or something..now, does a controversial king (that lived around the 15th century) that killed friends and family to solidify his power even deserve this privilege? He might have done some great things, but who knows what got lost or was hidden in the centuries that have passed since he lived..

    And about Mr Queen, there was one joke that people did not like, it got edited out, production apologized and
    everyone moved on..it received tons of love for 2 months consistently, everyone was praising the actors, they gave the finale one of the highest rating of all time (for cable channel) and now a month later???
    Suddenly the actors are the evil, deserving of hate, the drama has been wiped out from korean video platforms (plus youtube) and it will probably be a taboo topic from now on….I guess good job knetz? :/

    Also, a reminder that this is koreans vs koreans, there is no other culture involved, no minority vs privileged, just different takes on the same topic (with one voice clearly being way louder)

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      gonna reply in a post on my fanwall for all to see. the amount of likes this has troubles me.

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wow i cant edit this into my post but oh guys 🙁 i was really sad about jessica walter. i\’m such a huge fucking fan of arrested development and this year i got to know more about here and i dont know. so sad! but at least she passed in peace. i hope she\’s happy.

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hey all. oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy guys. shit is fucking tough. it\’s fucking ROUGH out here dude.

1. america sucks
2. the world
3. i am soooo frickin tired but heres some good news if u know me at all! i have struggled with insomnia and was on ambien for a long time and FINALLY i have been able to fall asleep organically. however i cannot stay asleep like more than 2h not possible. btu im VERY HAPPY i can at least get tired
4. i came on here cos i forgot choi kang hee\’s thing was airing and i wanna see what ppl think!!!! but i havent watched a kdrama since mr queen!
5. yes i am watching bl
6. the world is bad and it\’s tough. i dont have to explanin it in detail. if you are interested i REALLY ENCOURAGE you to read tamara k. nopper\’s work, this times piece, and we do this til we free us by Mariame Kaba in which Kaba, an abolitionist and organizer, has her foreword written by her closest friends and allies: two asian women. these asian women spent years and years with these black women and colloborated and shared and they have extremely in depth understanding of black women in the organizing space, and blackness. i can\’t think of a way to word this and i won\’t try right now. but we NEED people to understand the nuances of this. getting it just right. exploring the myths of the model minority and the power imbalance it creates between blackness and other groups. i say this to say that (lol) we do not and cannot approach each group\’s oppression and pushback globally and domestically if we think that white supremacy and societal ills operate in each race in the same way which doesn\’t even give leeway to minorities in THOSE groups.

an on top of that everything is so connected. the women that were murdered were sex workers. i think most of them were sino (im sorry i did not check and i wont right now, i cannot handle it) but yea. this is about labor rights, sex work, and race too. filipino people have to be under the thumb of trying to make money and america and in PH we\’ve made a program to get people over here to live in shit conditions just to get out of ther eback home or send their family some $
in the comments i will leave some links. tell me what u have been up to and whatyou are watching btu ACTUALLY tell me bc i want to watch something im so bored and talk 2 u

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    https://time.com/5949926/black-asian-solidarity-white-supremacy/ “How a Shared Goal to Dismantle White Supremacy Is Fueling Black-Asian Solidarity” there’s a picture of yuri kochiyama with malcolm x’s dead body in the piece. i did not knwo that and sent some screencaps to my mother (we were discussing black-asian solidarity in the aftermath) accidentally with it in it 🙁 i had never seen the pics before. frankly, one sentence here really pissed me off so i couldn’t really finish it ut i kept scrolling and nopper’s comments come in. this is exactly what all the asian women who fought and fight alongside black women understand and i think it was really lazy to have a sentence in here that is disproven time and time again and im fucking tired of it.

    here’s a bunch of her works and papers (i’m almost sure i can get them so let me know if u want it)
    https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Tamara-K-Nopper-2013592829
    https://decolonization.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/on-terror-captivity-and-black-korean-conflict/ “On terror, captivity, and black-korean conflict” (i also saved “the Trajectory of antiblackness in korea” at the same time tho that one i never read)

    so as these convos come up people need to be on their motherfucking game. realize tactics that push us apart but by no fucking means can i sit by and watch people who have limited undeerstanding imply things about my people because of white terror and our assimilation in general anad what we must do. i will not do it. bc we’re in this together not apart adn this has been a CONSTANT in radical organizing and will continue to be.

    kochiyama siad she didnt agree with evrything X did particularly probably the idea of pan africanism. eventually, X denounces this idea (you have to read it and stuff if you dont know sorry lmao) bc it was the right thing to do sorta (again READ ABOUT IT before u make judgements and think about why baclk people would want to do that. it is a valid thing but we dont want to recreate fucking ethnostates. we cant migrate to peoples land like with israeli apartheid etc and we’re all supposed to be free) but she, as an asian woman a fucking japanese woman post WWII which is part of this stupid fucking country’s LONG TERRORIST HITSROY AGAINST ASIA AND BTW THAT STRTED WITH FRANCE SO

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      i wrote this long thing n my privileges and shit but who cares. we havnet ever been poor and we’ve gone through difficulties. i on my own ama broke lmao my parrents make money but theyre in debt. so like class-wise im way better off and thats huge. also my dad being a nigerian immigrant thought that is certainly MOST CERTAINLY not a guarantee. my father is the one who supports his family the most because they couldnt get to that position esp bc 3/5 of them are women. that;s about his gender and luck., but hes a dark man and though the gender is th eplus, that doesnt really hold up when women are frightened of you.

      the shit my mother’s had to face i cant even. she was born in 1957 to a white mom and black dad in the fucking US. we don’t know where we’re from. they didnt really have much money snf she has 3 sisters. then her dad died. all of htem are pretty light tho visibly black. her color helps her, but shes still a BW. that rly affected them bc all 3 went on to do crazy shit and be like pretty high powered *my mother would never betray me and be a ceo. her sister is like super wealthy lmao she bought her daughter a mercedes. i cant even BUY BACK MY CAR FROMY MY PARENTS

      thats not the point. i want to point out thatttttt there’s like levels to this shit. opportuities you miss and dont miss. fucking luck. hard work and all that is a huge factor but STILL. so i come from a place where it’s COMPLETELY different to these women’s lives. i have that power over them in its way. these things can all at once be understood.

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    4. I’m watching Hello? Me! Choi Kang Hee’s drama! It’s soooo funny and totally endearing. It’s the bright spot in my week. I hope you pick it up.

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ah yes the two genders: mr and queen

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i call myself a queen often and i dont like to be associated with men but maybe ill call myself mr queen some time

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if i squint and use my art school degree i can be a pretentious dick and say that the show is actually a metaphor how things are changing gradually but not totally yet so they said \”the world isnt ready for not explaining shit about gender in a fuckin fantasy show that shows us how stupid our world is so you get this instead\” and im stickin to it….

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    Okay, so stayed far far away from this drama because I totally expected the kdrama-verse to make want to throw things at the tv given the possible gender and sexuality minefields in this premise. I trust your opinion here, and wonder if I should watch. I have read pretty much next to nothing about the drama beyond some fan wall posts I skimmed past, but is it worth my time? Is the execution and ending done well, or at least won’t make me want to scream?

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      i stopped at ep 18 because i found out about the ending but also i dont want it to end. i know you’ve talked about gender briefly and i don’t know how you identify but i can’t say, if it isn’t as cis, how you will receive it really. for me it was very interesting and eye opening but these are all avenues for me that are always going to be foreign and new. sometimes i straight up dont understand other troubles because my gender is clear cut. what the show helps me do is continue on the mantra of “mind your goddamn cis business ” lmao and i found that interesting and freeing and helpful. but again i’m still on the BOY AND GIRL TWO GENDER ONLY EVEN THOUGH IT’S ALL FAKE tip pounded into me

      that being said it is HILARIOUS to me. like laugh out loud funny. the gags and the dialogue and the stupidity. it’s a comedy first and secondary is the satire. then there’s the added technical bonuses. but now we you have this ending in mind i dont know. from having NO understanding of the ending (until like a day ago) though i was over the moon about the show. it’s funny and it’s also full of shit and stupid and it genuinely feels like a drama that could hvae been stretched farther had women lead the team. so the tone of the show just has a lot of feminine idk whats the word. wiles??? no. IDK IT’S JUST VERY NOT MASCULINE. AND i enjoy that. i didnt feel like i KNEW the heads of department were men.

      literally my interpretation is “bad man almost dies gets reincarnated sorta goes insane finds a family and love and doesnt terrorirze women and it’s kinda gay” for every week. frankly how they handle the gender thing is astonishing bc it isnt a thing. that’s not even the pOINT of the show.

      this wasnt helpful was it i really dont fucking know. i didnt see it as waste of time but i am coming from a way less complex place about it in trying to understand it. i think it is helpful to know the story its based off of is from china and in the end theyre like the same person sorta and this splits them. frankly it’s on me for my shock at the end though but that’s a testament on how gung ho the show was about its characters and not being bogged down with gender and sexuality implications that hinder progress instead of help it. being able to either organically or inorganically make an unheard unraveling in anything we’ve seen on TV. unfortunately that also makes the impact of some poor artistic choices and perhaps societal pressure.

      that being said to take how pathetic things can be and put it in perspective…………it’s better than almost any BL that exists and that’s wITH the potentially tragic implications of the ending lmao. that shows u where we’re at.

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        like here https://www.dramabeans.com/members/boughtabride/activity/1196715/ ilke the show was totally making fun of itself and fucking around bc it couldnt make sense of it and it didnt try to because we shouldnt HAVE to. reminded me of SNF that way but a) that was done by two women helming it, came from a woman’s MIND who got it PUBLISHED and it was about life and love, and the director is an artist and established and b) it’s netflix. netflix that still FUCKING LOOOOOOOOOOOOVES MONEY like loves the money but gives you more rfreedom so therefore it could go further…..but also point a ties into b. and then park kyungmi would never make a show on a cable channel anyway bc of the lack of freedom so…

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      im sorry i really wish i could help. real talk i have fondness for it but i’m having a hard time assessing it in an in depth way. or at least a way i’d like to. i’d love to know what you think but there’s no use in going into something that could make you angry and not serve a good purpose. all the good things i may notice could be for nothin…. the bar is on the floor in amara cis brain lmao

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      apologies for anothre thingy but u OPENED THE CAN OF WORMS THAT IS A QUESTION my brain cant close it

      since i havent seen those last few minutes and honestly probs wont ill say this. narrative wise, the story drops hints about the woman whose body he is in. the problem is they act like hisself into her body was simply a catalyst and a vessel; as mentioned, they are two different people. that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t literally think and feel all the same things she does not and at one point they ARE one. this is one of those things where it doesn’t have to be explained and especially not in fantasy but for the ease of the viewer both in the interpretation of the real wrold (boy/girl gay/straight etc) and story wise we seperate them. however i do not think the lasting of the seperation is justified. this is its main problem because it NEEDED to explain their body shenanigans in any way—why it needs a concrete explanation when it is fantasy and the absurd is beyond me so you know—but what it does is negate the kind of personal feelings and inner lives with an ending like that. a lot of that isnt prejudice, privilege, ism etc so much as the limitations of our privileges probably pushing us into a narrative corner (im going to assume) if it wasnt pressure in other ways (social / fiscal capital) for the makers of the show.

      story wise there is no payoff in having her come back completely with no glimmer of the person who she was or was with on the inside. that is a HUGE missfire and one they could have corrected. i’m going to use my Guess and say they didn’t want to do that for several reasons which then leads it to being fucked up narrative wise because of the social implications on top of that. also you can tell that in the middle is when they hit their stride and figured out that they werent going to tease out the ins/outs of his sex and sexuality because it’s so insane and ridiculous and AGAIN IT IS A COMEDY (which is good! because gender being this serious literally kills people! i mean on top of other things but) sso they just have fun with it.

      i was gonna make another grand comparison (capitalism makes us want to have concrete answers and grab things that we can use to control, we want to feel as if everything has an explanation or an answer which imo is antithetical to the shows message but! can’t escape!) but ill chill.

      (i know that cissexism reins so that is a factor but it’s less homophobia and more like….just we aren’t ok with having no definitions…which is ironic now that i think about it considering it was joseon, the eunuchs, korean and most other languages DONT have gendered pronouns etc so also this is colonialism’s fault lmao.)

      as you can see this is all contradictory. as karl marx once said, “Das Contradiction.” what i say is if you wanna laugh and be surprised at what it says until it doesnt…..it will be there for you.

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        i also say that you’re smart so you know what you’re going into. as pessimistic as i am i really am an optimist. i was gushing to my bf about it on sunday like “GIRL U NEVER WOULDA GUESSED WHAT’S BEEN GOING ON IN SOUTH CAREER” and i told her all about it. then today i was like “wait my bad lemme tell u what the show ended up doing” and she was like “i didnt want to make u sad and i was happy but yea im not surprised” which is funny bc im the one who always tells her to go on strike but i guess i really am a sucker.

        there’s just genuinely no ethical consumption. and i guess looking for ethical creation and expecting minute home runs on an artistic and sociopolitical level, because they are always congruent, means I AM THE CLOWN!!!!!!! when something catches u off guard dont be surprised if they fuck it up but i am every time. definition of insanity…

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          I knew I asked the right person. And I’m sorry that I opened this can of worms and took up so much of your time, but as always you make some interesting points that reveal the good and the bad. But most of all when you say this frankly how they handle the gender thing is astonishing bc it isnt a thing. that’s not even the pOINT of the show that makes me think I might be able to watch a sageuk. I’ve seen spoilers on the ending, and at least they didn’t pull a Big ending, which I’m still confused about (like, what the hell was that? and also, eww there’s noona romance and then there’s grossness even if it is clothed in Gong Yoo). I guess what I most afraid of was an unending parade of gay “jokes” and tropes, and it seems that they avoided this. Maybe kdrama really is taking baby steps towards more mature content dealing with non-binary gender and sexuality that isn’t the butt of homophobic humor and gross stereotypes.

          Anyways, if you find an ethical equitable artistic creation, I’d love to hear of it, and I promise to try try try to ethically consume, but is that possible?

          Also, I’m a cis heterosexual white middle-aged woman who if you saw me, you might say, “Karen, is that you?” However, I try to channel my inner bitch for good rather than racism and classism, but recognize that I still have work to do to stop perpetuating systemic inequities.

          Thanks amara

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responding to @byzantines from this post here https://www.dramabeans.com/2021/02/mr-queen-episodes-19-20-open-thread-final/#comment-3784918

cos it might be long. i havent’ gotten much sleep and i had to take my stimulants (but i had a doc appt! clap!) so forgive me if this is all over the place. i also havent gone through the whole thread. i get so excited to talk about things and so many points pop up in my head then i get overwhelmed. i know i dont have to explain myself but i have anxiety pals and that’s what im gonna do.

i think the writers backed themselves into a corner here. your comment got cut off and hopefully you can finish the thought later (if you so choose.) i agree with everything you said!

i see some issues in the way the story is received now that it’s ended.

1. interpreting this as a gay story in the literal sense
2. discarding SO YONG’s self and her womanhood which is integral to the story / discarding anyones womanhood and/or precarious situations (IE being poor, being a gisaeng, etc)
3. gender confusion in the end

my issue in the plainest terms is that, in the original, we get a happy ending in the most clear cut sense. SY goes to the present, BH stays in the past. i say they could have gone further and just made them have souls projected or some shit with SoBong mix in the past, and SY alive as BH in the present (however she sees fit to live this life.) this is interesting because so yong is living as a man in SK. a man who (pre accident and post accident is a hero) had money, was a cis man in 2021 SK, worked at the blue house, and, like all men, didnt have the respecting woman juice bug.

it would be cool to see how SY could have lived in the present as a cis man (on the outside.) how she would choose to live going forward is up to her; would she keep her appearance? would she have ease as BH the way BH did for her? could they still have the ideas of the mind and know themselves in the body? since, essentially, So Bong is that idea. and this is all philosophical too like literally ONTOLOGY! the show delves into philosophers and thinkers so it could have done this from a philsophical standpoint (and hello! they seem to be on a kick these days post-stranger like sisyphus?!??! but you know…lol)

i wont regurgitate what you said beause you’re absolutely correct (IMO~~ not that it matters) bc the show is all about autonomy and ownerhsip and living HAPPILY especially for the people who do not get to determine that life. that is largely to say the women in this story, the women of joseon. sidenote: i do not know as much about korea and its sociopolitical history as i would like but like all movements, the labor movement (what would evovle from the peasant rev) is very very very masculine and not open to genfder and sexual minorities worldwide. isnt it interesting that such a heavy movement (starting from donghak in the show) is so so female centered? the whole show is an estrogen fest in the best way 🙂

so for people to miss that all of that IS so yong is sad. because sobong is so yong. and so yong is so bong just like bonghwan is. they chose each other. them kissing each other is a mark of a transfer of souls or some kindred spirits or something. it’s alarming that people miss the point of how crucial this selfish man going into this desperate woman’s body is. how her suicide was to save her mind but still our interpretation is that a man saved her and took over for her. as if bong hwan wasnt hugely flawed which is why he worked for so yong because she couldnt have the chance to discover that on her own because of her place. gee wouldnt it be interesting if we took away that, maybe, women have a right to exist? that maybe bong hwan was majorly flawed, narcissistic, disrespectful to WOMEN and that his life turns upside down and he learns what its like to have NOTHING for yourself. to be a woman who is told she is nothing because of her existence, because of men, because of money and power. and for BH to truly be shocked at how horrifically she was treated.

this is why i go so far as to say that CJ with all versions of queen cheorin make sense. he didnt give a shit about her frailty and that is the catalyst for her realizing htat she has to rely on herslef. her suicide was her CHOICE. so what if it’s negative, unsavory, cowardly; she got to decide for once.

hwa jin’s end especially (i stopped mid ep 18!) i love. she knew she was gonna go insane and we hated her for it. but she chose HERSELF.

but this is where the writers need to explain the gender and sexuality thing comes at the fault of them and also our society~ (lol) and us as viewers. it is queerbaiting in the sense that gender is confusing or whatever and if you’re GNC or NB you (AFAIK correct me if im wrong someone) are in every sexuality. sure people may have missed that but we’re so stuck on and obsessed with BOY OR GIRL? GAY OR NOT? (i’m not saying you as a user have done this, just ing eneral) that when we fight against just going with the flow which the show does for its whole run until its final explanation hits it bits us in the ass. now the questions are: was h eboy all along? which lol

no doubt SK is conservative (and no doubt they present gender and sexuality differently as well but one thing no matter how progressive or conservative places are—and you know, most are conservative because that’s how capitalism gets us and we’re just going against the current sorry couldnt help myslef—our societal ills stay so MASCULINITY and ideas of sexuality permeate and are constant through the world. fear fo gayness, femninity, no gender, transness, whatever it is) but the questions i am asking are
– why did it have to end that way? was this planned? since the source material is different. if the writers think the trajectory makes sense, why? and if not, what would they change?
– what was their intention?

from a technical standpoint, i think the ending does not support hwat the show has shown. just in literal set up and execution. that is a minute problem though in the grand scehme of things. in terms of story, what does this mean for BH and SY and CJ? why wouldnt he notice her? but i can pretend all of that doesnt exist and handwave and pretend it is so bong and CJ (which it is, until the end.) what is so hard to have So Bong exist? what doesnt make sense about that in a fantasy? why this ending?

i’d like to know if it was fear or if they couldnt accept that ending. it’s possible and that makes it unacceptable. or did it just not make sense to them? or it owuldnt to the viewers? in which case: jesus christ who cares. the show does a good job of propelling itself but it seems the gender question is just too fucking pressing that it put itself into its own corner. which you know fair enough. it manages to sustain itself even with that blunder but it’s like why and now why does it seem that the point of all that is missing. what could they have done differently to drive this point home? and really what can we all learn from it?

as a cis person this has taught me a lot oabout gender and my thoughts. i am inclined to this type of thought naturally and admittedly i do want to be a pretentious artist dumb bitch social justice warrior 😛 but even with all the things i know, the things i’ve done, when it comes to radical shit i’m still learning SO MUCH. there’s so much history i dont know, so many prejudices i still habor even if i fight against htem an know theyre wrong, privileges i have. this is why media IS important (and why i hate capitalism) bc even me at 29, even me the girl involved in a solidarity union and a resurgence of the black panthers doesnt know shit, hasnt experienced shit, grew up in a shit system too with poor understanding of difference. even as i try and dismantly everything a fucking south korean drama and kurt cobain has me thinking about how absurd gender is and this is SOMETHING I KNEW. there’s so much information to take in and ways we process that information, it’s taken me years to undo the gender industrial complex, and it will continue to take me years. i am a woman and a proud one but as a cis woman i am aware of my own limitations and this world expanded it. and it makes me think harder about my status and what about femininity and womanhood in a cis lens is so important. and that blockade or erosion of that blockade via the show is something i appreciate. the show was saying go with the flow because we dont HAVE TO understand it. we dONT. it’s just gender. it means everyhting and nothing all at once. but it had to be explained so much to its own detriment when it was already saying so much of what needed ot be said. hopefully many a non cis people found it compelling (and if anyone wants to LMK what they thought of the end from any perspective but that one specifically i am interested cos yea!)

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    I agree with all of this! Also: bc I couldn’t reply to your other comment, in his live KJH said the script and himself, as an actor, took that CJ loved Soyong as Soyong. As in the fact that he recognised she was different the first time she “woke up”, and then again after that, and that again after that. He said whether Soyong was Sobong (as in the person that BH and SY made up together) or SY by herself, he loved her for her heart regardless- and that whilst something was missing, he loved her anyway, because the body share thing enabled him to open his eyes to try and “understand” Soyong. I think it was a really nice way of putting it, and maybe he was trying to dodge the BL question, who knows? But it was a good answer.

    I think in terms of the ending- as in “why this ending?” from what I gleaned from talking to friends in Korea and my own knowledge of Korea (I lived there for a few years, so I’m not an expert lol but I do know some things) is that the show was already courting a ton of controversy from the beginning. From the start they departed from the source material, which was about a fictional Chinese royal family, and based the characters on real figures in the Joseon court. So in the first few eps when Sobong calls the annals of kings of Joseon a “tabloid” Korean media and netizens lost their shit- it’s considered a UNESCO artefact, and respecting ancestors is a big thing in confucian cultures. Others started to complain that they were portraying their ancestors in a disrespectful way so they had to change some characters names. Korean society as a whole is pretty conservative, millenials and gen z are making a lot of headway (especially in the past 5/6 years) in relation to women and LGBT+ rights in particular, but from this controversy and from how big the show was getting I guess they made the statement that they changed the endings from the source material to get out of the kitchen because they couldn’t stand the heat. They were already pushing the envelope by having a notable Joseon queen by inhabited by the soul of a man, and with the very overt commentary on how fucked Joseon was towards women, which was also a commentary on how women are treated in modern day Korea. I think it was all done rather clumsily because as you said the writers and producers are men.

    And on top of that, they had made Soyong a person outside of Bongwhan, unlike in the original where they were always the same person. They had two options after getting pressurised by the media whilst not undermining the message of the show: to separate them, which would be queerbaiting, or to make Bongwhan the reincarnated Soyong. I’ve seen a lot of chatter saying “Korea wouldn’t have minded” if they did a queer reincarnation ending and maybe they wouldn’t have if it was getting lower ratings, but a good chunk of the country was watching the show and I think, honestly, they made the decision to just not go there, for the sake of the cast and crew.

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      ah ok i asked u this question in the post as well so ty fo rtaking time to answer. that makes sense. i honestly dont think they wouldnt have minded, truly, because the whole show is a ride of absolute crazy mistakes. some choices we dont even take here (i am from the US.) what a shame.

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        No problem! Yeah- I agree, but I also think that because these kinds of “scandals” which they call it could tank people’s careers, I get that they didn’t want to go there completely. The two main actors, the writers and producers aren’t on the same level as say, Park Eunsook, so I get it. They’ve been getting better with mainstream depictions of queer romance but I don’t know whether they just shit themselves at the prospect of a possible reaction at the last minute. I do think people forget how mainstream Korean media operates as we look at it from western eyes, even if a lot of young people don’t see the big deal (it’s the same in the U.K., where I’m from) :).

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          therein lies the problem tho. also hahaha i lived in london for 3 yrs (i went to film school there!) my second home lmao. but to ur first point i think it’s an overtrust (not using this word correctly but idc whatever lmao) of our own systems. i will NEVER live in asia bc um im black and a woman (and f*t and qu**r) and no thanks but i know that as an american GAL uh life sucks here too. we dont even have a BL pipeline like in the west. which is good cos capitalism and fuck that shit but literally the perception of sex and gender in the west is just as fucked just different. this show wouldnt have been done here liek it was bc we cant even think that way. literally the best commentaries on gender have come from kdramas. well one was unintentional or partially like in mr queen but like with school nurse files, whose director is like an artist who loves art and wanted to quit filmmaking bc thats how fucked up it is and worked with park chan wook, it was there and they presented it and had a solution. i wrote about this earlier this week as well but it seems like the east is still stuck on the overt homophobia stuff and “representation” makes us all feel an eXTREMELY false sense of safety which is the danger of media and not unpacking these things for what they are. for me i see things all ove rthe world that we all do when we just say fuck you to the demands of The Man (forgive me extreme oversimplifications) and we’re all constantly pushing boundaries and we should just keep going until we’re off the fuckin cliff. i’m an extreme risk taker in this regard though which is why im unemployed

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            *BL pipeline like in the east

            i mention the stuck on the homophobia part because in the west we’re on the gender resurgence which has its roots in all these problems. so when a problem that’s more obscure (like as you said mentioning misogyny in a paper for the first time in 2016 etc and this is also how we have access to that information although IK you said u lived in SK but ppl like me who arent going to nor want to learn hangul but are interested lmao there’s much less avenues to share. that and how in teh west we LVOE THINKPIECES my god.) so it’s surprising when something that is more stilted in conversation in a society presents a “problem” and solves it easily. like i say with SNF it was sincerely intentional. with MQ it was the nature of the story in itself but still.

            anyway can u tell i’m not a fan of uh “bosses” and the like lmao

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            Yep, I def agree. I loved School Nurse Files too, and didn’t know that! And yeah, the “false sense of safety” rings true. I was on the KDRAMA subreddit bc it’s one of the best places to discuss dramas aside from here, and I was really bowled away by the flippant comments in regards to being a woman and LGBT+ in Korea (considering I’m both and lived there, and had a partner who was both and friends who are). There was a lot of “well idols are gay men in denial they exploit gays so why can’t they have it here” and “kdrama is influenced by western media anyway why can’t we have the BL” and “no one would have cared”. I feel like because of the feelgood sheen k drama has put on these issues people don’t delve into the realities of being queer and a woman in Korea- which is why I get why the PD and director maybe didn’t want to go there. I lived there when the gangnam murder happened and it was the first time the word “misogyny” was written in a mainstream paper, when I went to pride with my friends and my ex we all wore masks so their families wouldn’t recognise them on the news. Gay men were bullied to the brink of suicide in the army, and people who were in active service were encouraged to not only out their colleagues who were gay, but also NK soldiers they saw over the DMZ that were. Even recently you have female celebrities killing themselves because of the misogynistic abuse they received online after their sex tapes got leaked, upskirting scandals, and deepfake videos of underage idols on porn sites. So, I get why people were disappointed about the lack of representation. But at the same time, they were incredibly brave to depict what they did especially when you compare it to how overtly feminist it is when the adaptation of Park Jiyoung, 1984 created such a severe reaction that the cast was bullied online severely because they wanted to be in a vaguely feminist drama, or the abuse female celebrities got for admitting they read the book. So I get that the show maybe took the decision to just not go there because it could have truly wrecked them, and for their own safety too. I get why people are upset, but sometimes we sometimes just want representation and the veneer it presents instead of thinking about the actual context it comes from. A lot of people mad about the ending of this show and commenting flippant things didn’t ever really think about the reality of queer people and women in Korea, I think.

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            oh boy that’s tough. i remember hearing about that murder. my friend was there around that time too. she’s a thin dark skin black women and quxxr as well and her time was mixed. i do remember her sharing her experiences that were similar to what you said, hearing from her co workers, the misogyny and racism she faced. she shared something from 60 minutes (idk if you know it idk how popular it is lmao it’s a US news segment show) and they interviewed a woman from SK about that, the murder, molka, and the promotion of drinking for date rape basically. how the violence of women in SK pales to the depiction.

            thank you for sharing your experience! i’m sure it’s tough as fuck. the good thing is that there’s always a community. a counterpoint to what you’re saying, though i agree with it in nature, is actually my point: we have to fight against that security. the sadness of this all is that that obfuscation is intentional. we come up with the reasons after. what happens with this type of content is a double edged sword which is why i think we have to not be afraid to push forward anymore because the public takes what it can get. there’s something we learn in film school about how if an audience can catch on about what exactly we’re trying to do with our story we’ve fucked up. so for example one of my crowning achievements is writing tthis AWFUL script that somebody didnt know was about them and it’s not great and i dont like the final work but i felt almost proud that i made that statement without the person realizing how close to real life it was. art is alllllll about that risk factor because we ARE NOT safe and that’s the point. the reason people don’t understand is because they chooose not to and no one is pushing them/us to. and this is where more autonomy isi great. i fukckin HATE and i mean hate netflix as a company (all companies) but the freedom people have with it is real which is why SNF was made; the female director and writer felt free to say their piece which is why they agreed. this is more ‘cable’ but it’s still mainstream. so what are we waiting for?

            it’s precisely because we get stuck in this cycle of our own creation. this is why we have to push and why i demand because ostensibly the best artists are here to challenge and fuck shit up. we encourage that destruction more so we can understand WHY we need to destruct. currently we hvae been stuck on anything we see is good and we must digest it. that’s why critique is necessary and good and these discussions are. frankly i wasnt expecting for mr queen to say abythnig that it did. so its achievements are going to have to hit as hard as the glaring misses i think it’s only fair. the reality is even people domestically dont know all the troubles. we’re all coerced into the bullshit which is why we HAVE to claw our way out since survival is already a game. there are tons of women who would decimate this chancea nd prove to be capable so the reality is that it exists and people are

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            willing and able. and there’s different ways to consume and to create and we’re seeing that more and more. we have to keep pushing this envelope because culture and art are tantamount to survival and it TELLS the untold stories. it’s a layered and complex topic and there’s no real right way because we’re all trying to set right a system that isnt ever right. this is the concept of “culturalism” that i eschew (IE the zeitgeist dictating how we see progress instead of true material condition) so i present an argument that these types of shows are only intended to jar people ever so slightly but not enough to make a fuss. so we come back louderr. that’s my motto~!

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    In terms of Joseon history and gender history (again, not an expert but I did do my MA in gender history and a good chunk of it was on gender roles in cultures that followed confucianism/neo Confucianism) is that Joseon was the most restrictive period for women in the history of Korea and that, coupled with Christianity, is a huge reason why women still have a long way to go in order to not be treated as second class citizens in many ways there (not even getting into LGBT+ people as that’s another can of worms that needs its own comment). Being a queen in Joseon, was also the most restrictive role you could have. So I get the idea of sending back a selfish, chauvinistic 21st century cis het man into the body of a woman with the most oppressive role in the most oppressive period in Korea’s history, and that his sheer confidence and self love helps her, and his exposure to how fucked women have it helps him. Their lives were dictated by etiquette in ways that was oppressive even to the royal courts of Europe. They were also completely the property of the emperor/king. We find out that Soyong before trying to kill herself was trying to get herself thrown out the palace- that took balls, because to do that was to essentially ostracise yourself from the world. To label yourself as used, thrown away goods. Which is also why Cheoljong gets so upset when Hwajin says she wants him to depose her as a concubine, because the fate for her would be the same, but instead of him throwing her aside she was bad ass and brave and wanted it so she could find herself. So- when you take all of it together, I get what they were trying to do. I think it’s wrong that they took a story about indirect BL and made it a story about sexism and agency, or maybe they wanted both and realised they didn’t have the balls to do the reincarnation/same souls ending. I do think that however we have issues with it, from what the show is trying to say, especially about Soyong and the idea that it was Bongwhan, not another woman, to share her body, it makes sense that Soyong comes to the fore in the end, because she was there all along. I maintain that, even though I think the writers left too much up to interpretation. Because if they kept Sobong as Sobong without clarifying the issue surrounding their souls (as in, we knew they were sharing the body, but we didn’t know whether they were one soul or two separate ones) then the entire commentary about agency and women’s lives in Joseon and their place in society would have been lost, because by remaining as Sobong without them being the same person it essentially would have been Bongwhan transplanting Soyong in her body whilst she could influence his actions with her memories, emotions, feelings, and attachments, she still would never have a voice (which I think the “little mermaid” dialogue in ep7/8 was getting at) and never become herself again, essentially killing her, when no one would know she was dead and no one would mourn her.

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      yea that i knew actually. ironically, it was KPOP that radicalized me. even though KPOP is basically like…..BS soft power and i got out of it it’s what lead me to understand more about the culture in itself (cos liking something from somehwere = / = interest) and expanded my knowledge and also helped understand more about my own people. like no joke without it would have taken longer for me to get to where i am now. so the whole idea of it paired with the reconstruction of joseon, how joseon ends, nokdu rev, etc and the show is clever. they are badass. hwa jin sucked but then she didnt and that’s cool as hell. i also love any women down to go insane and end her life to free herself. 🙂

      i don’t think the story as it presented itslef is “indirect BL’ and that’s where i think a lot of the issues come up. this is also me not engaging in any behind the scenes work prior. partially on purpose because i don’t care about media fanfare around something more about its merits and if i’ll like it (since buzz is a huge part of reception) so i didn’t pay attention to that. it’s a ballsy story (pun intended) but i never thought that way, really, since that wasn’t what it was about. perhaps it was an issue on their end too though i in no way thought they were trying to approach BL territory. i unfortunately watch tons of BL nowo with no job and so much time so it’s just not even close to me. i understand the instinct is for us to think of it is as such but romance wasnt even really in the cards with the show for them until later, as it was supposed to be. she is in a female body that is the truth and though a gender confusion story could be drawn in that direction, theyve been done fairly often. the show didnt really use this to promote CJ being gay or questioning or anything.

      i agree with all the things you said and i don’t think that’s the problem at all. to me everything made sense. it wasnt a perfect show but i wasn’t bogged down with excess flaws, nothing irreversible, and i was open to anything for an ending. that’s why the ending as it defines the rest of their life is what is annoying and/or troubling to me, personally, though i view it the same way you do. the point is that who BH was/is as a person was imperative for her for the reasons you stated and for all the dialogue that comes from it. part of what they did was naturally what would have come from the writing because of the nature of things, how shit is so glaringly obvious in joseon the way it’s covert in the current world. i’m sure so much female influence made it hit more, it had to, and the precise comedic timing. anyway you and i say the same thing our conclusions differ in how effective it was and how they could have solved it i suppose. it’s an interesting case of our literal limitations of our mind, paired with society, then that pesky capitali part

      the issue isnt so yong living or her life. it’s that so bong couldnt stay as one and that trying to even figure her out is this much of a

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        herculean effort when there’s so much that could have been done. this is where i have to then evaluate how i feel about the effort and the people in charge of said effort and what i think about what their brains can do :p

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          haha, our conclusions are def different but I respect it, and it’s making me think about the series as a whole more. I personally never saw the series as indirect BL and more of a commentary on gender roles/performance and sexism, but due to the source material and people being confused as to whether Sobong was Soyong/Bongwhan or just Bongwhan gave many viewers that impression, which is why I’ve kind of fought on behalf of Soyong in other comments. 🙂 I’m pretty sure the original GPG author intended it as indirect BL as well as commentary on gender, but I don’t think the writers/directors of Mr. Queen did. I think they adapted the conceit of a time travelling sexist man in a queen’s body to suit the purposes of the story they wanted/were trying to tell.

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            mhmmm makes sense. and agree. i think it’s more of an unintended effect a lot of the stuff that seems so shocking. but then again that’s another point of proof how dumb this all is. imagine if the story could have unfolded on its own 🙂

            anyways so yong is cool!!!!!!

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        “part of what they did was naturally what would have come from the writing because of the nature of things, how shit is so glaringly obvious in joseon the way it’s covert in the current world. ”

        let me clarify what i mean here. that intent is important in how we measure what we feel about their abilities artistically (the people involved in the work) but many times work makes its own statements naturally. so like some of my fav films being made my men and inadvertently being Statements About Stuff and Things are not always intentional (oftentimes they are not.) so this could have been a byproduct of the show but oftentimes a lot of what was hitting was intentional (and others not so much like the questionable choice of making one a eunuch as revenge though that scene redeems itself sorta but idk how.)

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Omg theending of MQ being that they live in the present and the past is so good i love that

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