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[Drama Chat] The science of hate-watching

I’m aging myself here, but kind of like the old “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up” joke, we drama fans have our own: I hate it but I can’t stop watching.

As a staff writer, of course, hate-watching is a little more complicated. For us, if we’re covering the show, it’s out of duty, solidarity, and sheer cold-blooded determination that we soldier through something we’re not enjoying. But hate-watching is a little different when you’re watching solely of your own initiative.

And so, this thread exists for Beanies near and far to talk about the science of hate-watching.

 

What are your thoughts on hate-watching? Do you do it? If so, why do you do it? Share below!

 
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I would say I'm a pretty easy going person in general, and that extends to my drama watching. I'm selective with what I watch, so I usually don't do hate-watching. However, before I realized I didn't have to finish everything I started, I did finish a few dramas that made me angry. Unfortunately, a couple of these were surprise Hate Watches - the things that made me angry weren't there right away - they snuck up on me, darn it! But now, if a drama makes me angry/upset in a way that's not fun and that affects me longer than when I'm watching, I drop it. Here's a short list of dramas that made me angry:
● Lucky Romance (the FL)
● You're All Surrounded (the mystery resolution)
● Graceful Family (the FL and the mystery resolution)
"Annoyed Watches" and "Disappointed Watches" are another story 😂

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“Before i realized i didn’t have to finish everything i started” said every drama fan ever.

This is off-topic, but your comment suddenly made me wonder.. I used to think it was a ME problem, until DB made me realise a lot of people started out not being able to drop dramas and felt obligated to finish dramas they didn’t particularly enjoy. Now i wonder if it’s a k-drama or non-series drama thing, because i had no problem dropping American shows, or watching random episodes of it because i have no patience for anything with seasons. But with k-drama, for a good few years, i watched all of the dramas i started (unless there was availability issues, lol) and it was such a new experience when i learned to test episodes, drop dramas or even skip-watch.

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Yes - so much yes!!! 😂 I wonder if it's maybe because K-dramas tell a complete narrative arc, like a book, that makes it harder to drop? The "It's only 16 episodes" and "maybe it will get better" reasoning really revs up the sunk-cost fallacy with watching. But once you become OK with dropping, it's so freeing! 😂

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Freeing! That’s the word i was looking for. Your comparison with the book could be one of the reasons dropping is hard. With American shows, it used to frustrate me when the questions or mystery at the start of ep 1 doesn’t get resolved at the end of season 1 so after a few attempts i just watch it however i want because the stories are usually episodic anyway..

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As a newbie, I had to get all the way through my first 3 or 4 shows before I’d gotten enough of a feel for Kdramas to feel comfortable dropping a show. BTW— I have since revisited and enjoyed a few shows I abandoned early on, when I hadn’t had enough experience with Kdramas to “get” them.

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I think it's an individual matter after all. In my case, the fact that a drama has only 16 episodes, and sometimes even less, is not something that encourages me to watch all its episodes. And it has been like this since the beginning of my adventure with K-dramas, which has been quite many years. I've never had a problem letting go of things. I quit a lot of dramas at every stage, whether after 1, 2, 5, 10 or even after episode 15. It happens to me that I won't watch the last one and I don't feel pressured to watch and finish the adventure with such a drama. However, in my life I have watched quite a lot of series with many seasons, e.g. 8 seasons, which had a total of about 200 episodes. I also watched a lot of Latin telenovelas and some Turkish series, which often had 100 or 200 episodes. So for me it's a matter of whether a given fictional plot is able to keep me glued to it and be interesting all the time.

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For me the next steps after dropping a drama and skip watching, was dropping a drama with only one or two episodes left..i’ve always wondered why people do that but now I know it just happens sometimes. My sister once watched this series that started around the time her baby was born, and 3 years later it still wasn’t finished 🤣

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felt obligated to finish dramas they didn’t particularly enjoy.

This is definitely a k-drama thing. I had no problem dropping even k-dramas before I staretd watching then as k-dramas.
To clarify, once I could not really differentiate between C/J/K/T/V dramas and randomly picked and dropped. But after I became a religious k-drama watcher, it felt like a blasphemy to drop them even if I didn't like them. I have hate watched so many shows.

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Dramas are ok but I still have problems differentiating J/K songs. Don’t waste your time on too many hate-watches!

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You perfectly said how I feel. Learned it's ok to drop! Great confidence

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Another quick comment- I'm putting in a ton of effort to watch a Kdrama in the first place by reading subtitles and having to pay such close attention. I think that effort makes me try and stay with it just a little longer. I will also watch the last episode if I'm hating or thinking of dropping. If the end is bad for sure the rest is.

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I took a leaf out of @attiton and switched to English for a recent show - Chicken Nugget. It's a huge help. Even though I would never ever watch a serious drama with dubbing, I think a time pass watched that you want to watch but also want to multi task while watching it (much like the other non k-drama shows), dubbed versions are helpful. And I can always go back and watch the original if I feel I am truly invested.
One series I enjoyed watching the dubbed version of was Under The Queen's Umbrella. It was very well done.

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And I need to watch try Umbrella with dubs. I wasn't impressed and dropped quickly. Sorry if you have heard this before but my first drama was Attorney Woo. I watched dubbed and loved the show. Have watched the K version but prefer the dubbed. I thought the dubbed of H Cha Cha was terrible- almost making fun of Asian people. Dropped and finally went back and watched in K and liked it a lot.

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Under the Queen's Umbrella I watched both versions. It's an amazing drama but starts very slow, so bear with it - maybe 3 or 4 episodes. The dub is really good.

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I do not purposely watch a show I hate. I will skip it and spend my precious time elsewhere or another drama/show instead.

But there could be an instance I stick through a mediocre to bad show until the end if I like the leads. I do not consider it a hate watch. Its just a self imposed chore perhaps. Maybe I hope against hope that it will get better for my fave. Or a sense of loyalty? maybe for the bean? Its something that may change in time.

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ah, yes one of those love-hate watches where you want to drop because of one of the leads but end up staying for the other lead, all the while cursing under your breath ^^

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Maybe. Its more I feel sorry they got stuck with a crappy written drama. But usually if its too awful, I end up dropping it. Its the passably good that I tend to stick till the end. Or end up reading recaps instead.

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*cough* Heavenly Idol *cough*

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I applaud you for sticking with that till the end. I didn't even finish ep1.

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I still don't know why I stuck around hoping for it to get better. 🤯 Lesson learned - never again!! 😊

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Is there a science to it? I thought it was just self-inflicted pain. I think for me hate watches are probably when you’re already knee-deep in the drama and
1. can’t/won’t drop the drama
2. Keep hoping/waiting for drama to get better
3. Have too much faith in the actor/writer/Director

This is just a few examples.. sometimes it depends on your mood as well.

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Mood has a big influence on whether I want to keep watching. A show could be really good, but I might not in the proper state of mind at the time to enjoy it. Rather than force myself to keep watching, I’ll put it away for another day.

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Absolutely! And timing as well. Sometimes if i’m tight for time i’d watch the drama i enjoy less, cos i need time to savour the drama i like better. Does that make sense?

Anyway generally i don’t really hate watch. Sometimes even if the drama sucks but there’s a big fan wall buzz on DB i’d watch it cos the experience of loving or moaning over it with Beanies are fun..Like during TKEM or Vagabond.. Beanies are a damn funny and creative lot 😄

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if i’m tight for time i’d watch the drama i enjoy less, cos i need time to savour the drama i like better.

This is so cute 😁😂
For me, I usually save shows I really like for the night, when everybody else is asleep and it’s quiet 😅

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And you can spazz in peace if needed!

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I think I fall into the trap of #2 the most often. A drama will start out interestingly enough, decline sharply, but then I keep thinking that it will recover! I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen a drama recover, but somehow I think it will. This year I’ve had to scale back my live-watches, so this is happening less, and I’m making sure endings are satisfying before I start, which is helping a lot.

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I prefer quitting instead of hate watching dramas. 🤔 For the most part, I just drop dramas that are not worth my time - whatever the reason. No hard feelings. I don’t have a grace period either: if something doesn’t work for me mid-episode 1, I’ll opt out.

In the past, I had to learn this while reading books: I always thought I’d have to finish every book I started. But some were just incredibly frustrating to read, and once I noticed that they took the joy out of reading in general, I just quickly put them on the dust-collection-donate-later-pile. A life lesson I directly applied to watching kdramas 😂 My free time is limited and precious!

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Same! I learned the fine art of dropping from books. I used to suffer through 1,000 page tomes as if it was a virtue. Now, I’ll drop a novella at the drop of a hat. I read this article a few years ago quantifying how many books we might have left to read given current life expectancies (American data). Despite being a “super” reader, it was a shockingly small number.

https://lithub.com/how-many-books-will-you-read-before-you-die/

So, use your time wisely Beanies. Unless you do get something out of hate watching/reading, then carry on! As long as you’re getting what you want from your time.

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Totally agree about dropping books that aren't holding your interest. The only time I force myself to finish is when I'm reading it with my book group.

There are countless articles with tips and tricks to help you read more books. One piece of advice was to read a minimum of 500 pages a day. I'm retired, and I couldn't manage to do that, unless I skimmed the book instead of fully reading it. Then what would be the point?

At the other end of the spectrum are people who never read anything beyond whatever it is they scroll through on their phones. American late-night tv host Jimmy Kimmel has a regular feature where they ask random people on the streets of Los Angeles to name a book—any book. It's really funny, and at the same time really, really sad.
https://youtu.be/wJdNrCeUdhc?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/ZMVxE0RvMbE?feature=shared

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Oh my, now I’m both intrigued and scared to watch that clip on YouTube… 😂 500 pages/day sounds impossible, considering my other chores & hobbies. 😵‍💫 I guess with time, you get a better idea about what works for you and what doesn’t, and deciding to let something go becomes a lot easier, too.

„Getting what you want from your time“ is exactly it, @indyfan ! Even if dramas/books can be devastating, too, it doesn’t mean they’re not worth watching/reading. If you’re prepared for big feelings, it’s not a hate watch/read for me!

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500 pages/day sounds impossible

That is a lot?! *blinks in speed-reading* Oh, when you're really busy overall, I guess...

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I hope Reading subtitles count. I'm not a reader. But since starting k dramas I figure I read 4-6 hours a day

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Ha ha @23new2kdrama subtitles are reading. But if Jimmy Kimmel’s crew were interviewing you on the streets, they might not consider it book reading.

I love books but a great show can be just as impactful. A pulpy novel is different than a well crafted show, but is it better?

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C'mon drama subtitles and Beanie content counts as "reading" ... isn't it!?

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@23new2kdrama

I hope Reading subtitles count. I'm not a reader. But since starting k dramas I figure I read 4-6 hours a day

This had me cackling!

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It's interesting how most people just name a classic they had to read in school. So the books they make students read in school really do make a difference in that they might be the only books some students will remember. Sadly, social media really cut into my reading time. I used to be a voracious reader, sigh.

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Have you tried audiobooks? I get through loads of books through listening while doing other things as staying focused to read is hard for me.

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@reply1988 - I have the exact opposite problem—I get distracted listening to audiobooks if I try to do something else while I listen. My brain can’t seem to focus on more than one thing at a time. I never understood how people could study or read with the tv or radio on!

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I can't study with talking in the background and that's why I struggle to work in Open plan offices. I will listen to audiobooks while doing physical things, driving, cooking, washing dishes, having a bath etc. so it is more brain doing the listening while body does things on autopilot.

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@babylilo sorry I forgot to tag you in my response above.

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If I do finish a book I dislike, it’s also often for my book club. Often, we conduct a literary postmortem. Where did the life of this book go so tragically wrong? From the plot, character, and descriptions down to the pacing, sentence syntax, word choices—and everything in-between.

But sometimes, someone will channel the spirit of Dorothy Parker, Michiko Kakutani or @hacja and just cut it down to the bones. It’s sometimes hard to hear when you love a book, but if they’re clever, I do appreciate their efforts.

My drama watching is much more passive but I truly admire those who offer thoughtful takes in praise or in hate—and the smart discussions that follow. Just keep the focus on the show, not the beanies. Keep it civil.

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👍👏👏👏
Especially last part. 😘

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‘ Just keep the focus on the show, not the beanies. Keep it civil’ 👈🏾agreed and if it was focused on the soundtrack, PPL, story and characters; limiting negativity when discussing the actors etc. that would probably be a win too.

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@reply1988 That last category is so tricky tho. I think @attiton cited evidence once that negative feedback has much greater emotional impact than positive words, which I can believe. And I can also imagine when you are a fan of an actor it can feel like a personal attack. So I get that, my sympathies, but fans would do well to step back and not take it personally. If the critics make a reasonable argument, I see no issue with it, and even if it’s an inexplicable dislike, they’re allowed their feelings. (Isn’t liking someone sometimes the same mystery?)

Yet, when it turns into a pile-on, it can feel ugly. And no one wants to wade thru that. It changes the whole tenor of the space. I’ve felt that discomfort too. So I don’t have an answer. I guess it’s complicated. All things in moderation. Etc. (And yes, I am thinking of the fracas that always surrounds He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named 🤐).

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Yes that last point is exactly it, the whole tone changes a mass pile on from both sides and at the end of the day is it important in the scheme of things. I dislike the bad taste it leaves as it is rare for any other work place setting to get a free for all on the personal attacks about someone’s job. I know the actors don’t read the comments sections but I worry about family and friends who may be part of the DB community. I try to reign in my opinions with wardrobe and make up as it’s probably PPL and fashion rather than fully their choice and I am not proud of myself when it slips out.

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I wish I were in your book group! The discussions in mine aren’t nearly as probing and insightful.

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@babylilo I suspect we’re in different continents never mind cities or I’d surely invite you to join one of mine. But I’d say, join any book club with writers (esp. of lit fic) and it’s knives red pens out. 😅

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I have mastered dropping a drama if it didnt work for me. Time is too precious to spend on a drama you do not like.

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I don't really hate watching. It's just if I don't have a lot of dramas to watch, I won't drop some dramas I would have dropped in other circumstances. I watch in a indifferent way, nothing makes me excited or angry... I'm just resigned. When I really hate a plot or a character, I drop it.

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I've dropped so many dramas due to not jiving with one of the leads.

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I'm ready to admit I totally hate-watch shows. Everyone else here is so reasoned!!! I also drop shows, but that's when I'm bored (**cough** Hide**cough**), not when it's got me so strongly in its emotional clutches that I actually feel something--including anger, resentment, or hate.

When I really-truly hate-watch, I rarely comment or post about it on Dramabeans, though. That's not to say I never do that (Not Others) but when my feelings are running negatively hot, that doesn't result in interesting conversation for me or anyone else.

Other examples of full-on hate-watches for me include Kkokdu, Heavenly Idol, and True to Love/Bora! Deborah. Those were all known by me to be pushing all the wrong buttons early on. I persisted because I wanted to know how they could further twist me into a knot...but also with the (tiny) hope that they could indeed pull something satisfying out by the end and offer me the promise of the unmatchable joy that is seeing someone turn this thing around and prove me wrong.

Then there were a few that I only came to recognize as hate-watches near the end: Yumi's Cells (I know, I know), Be Melo (I KNOW, I KNOW), Strangers Again, and My Lovely Liar. These all have the property that in the final weeks I finished them with dread in my heart, knowing full-well that I had been betrayed and that I was persisting because of my own resentment.

Hey, it's a fan's life.

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If a show is outright bad then there’s no reason for me to hate-watch, I just drop it.

If I sense that a show would leave me with unwelcome emotions like wistfulness for lost opportunities, which can affect my peace of mind, I will also drop it.

That’s why I really admire your perseverance and your willingness in putting yourself up for testing and trials.

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I'm glad to hear someone else didn't like Be Melo. I didn't get to the end, but the five episodes I did watch really weren't working for me at all.

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Ah! To be clear, I didn't dislike Be Melo! The emotions it caused in me by the end, instead, were intense, painful and mainly negative. I had to push myself to confront and feel those feelings because I didn't want to, but I still felt compelled to go through it.

For me, "dislike" feels like apathy or boredom, and then I drop. If I hate-watch, it's because the show has well-and-truly got me in its clutches and I can't help but go on and experience things that make me really, truly uncomfortable.

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If this was the case for me, and is also what you meant down there about taking the opening fictions give, then my choice is still the same: I actively choose to avoid going through such emotions via fictions. If I had to deal with them in real life, then that’s it, I’ll deal with them in real life. Either way, my heart will be broken at least once. What I try to prevent is its being broken twice, through fictions and in real life :)

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I finished Be Melo and disliked all of it.

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I’ll thank you for pointing out what was becoming a hate watch for me. It’s being currently almost roundly and wittily skewered in the recaps—and I wonder if it inspired missvictrix to post this. 😅

While I was genuinely curious what’ll happen in the next episodes, I realized the Beanie commentary was much better than the show. So, drop. (Also, for lack of time.)

I was pretty unhappy with Strangers Again. But I don’t think it was hate watching as I kept hoping against hope they’d resolve the issues. So perhaps, deeply disappointing watches instead. Same with The Interest of Love.

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@attiton I am impressed by your restraint in not posting hate-watching comments. I do not possess such self-control.

As far as the shows you list, I think they would be pretty much on everyone's hate watch list. For me, though your list raises an interesting and very important distinction. There are those shows which quickly achieve hate watch status: ( In your list, for me, it would be Kkokdu, Heavenly Idol, Strangers Again) and those in which the hate watching grows as the show proceeds (again your list, Be Melodramatic, True to Love, My Lovely Liar).

One provides the satisfaction of instant ridicule, with not a moment that isn't filled with fun disdain. (Who can forget the scene in Heavenly Idol, in a church no less, in which the villainess was revealed to be an inspired piece of seaweed?) But the second, building hate, requires increasingly biting sarcasm, a bit more challenging to express, but satisfying in its own way.

As far as betrayal--for me, that feeling comes only with shows I'm not hate watching, and is usually a phenomenon of the last 2 episodes or so. But that's another topic--one which I know has already been much discussed!

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Yeah, I think betrayal is a different phenomenon - when things seemed to be going well and then the bottom fell out or the wheels came off or things just suddenly took a turn in a very unwelcome direction (usually in final episodes).

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*cough* Heartbeat *cough*

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*cough* Dodosolsol *cough*

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*cough* Heartbeat *cough*

Violent ones.

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As some other folks have said, most of my hate watches were early in my drama career, and most occurred because folks had raved about a show so I kept watching expecting that it had to get better. A few personal examples:

City Hunter: The stupid, it burns.
The End of the World: High brow cynicism about how all humans are terrible at its most pretentious and obnoxious
Damo: The show that most made me want to throw my laptop against a wall. Don't set your female lead up as a the world's most brilliant detective and then turn her into a total idiot in order to force a faux tragic ending.

Or, a more recent unfortunate example: The Kidnapping Day: For the love of god, google contemporary HIV treatments. Please. It's not the 1980's any more.

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The Kidnapping Day: For the love of god, google contemporary HIV treatments. Please. It's not the 1980's any more.

I heard this from someone else too. I don't know how they wove this in the plot but I hope it didn't propagate fearmongering , it can be so damaging...

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It was really bad (so much fearmongering), and completely scientifically inaccurate. What made it worse is that the show was apparently sponsored by the "Korean Science Council", which makes one wonder how much science they actually do there.

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Hate is a word I rarely use, including its use for watch. If I can’t like something or someone, I’ll just walk away. IRL, if I have to work with someone I initially didn’t really like, I often end up finding their good sides that make me not dislike them anymore.

For Kdramas, I realised that for a show I’m on the fence about, if I give it more time, more attention, watch at normal speed, no ff, it can grow on me. If it’s still not enough for me to keep watching, then I’ll drop it.

A wise beanie once said something along the line of “we owe the show nothing, we owe the actors nothing, so never feel obliged to finish something that doesn’t make you feel good”. Nothing truer has been said.

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Ah, but how do you learn to recognize, confront and cope with the negative emotions inherent to human existence if you don't take the opening that fiction gives?? Otherwise, you've got little practice when it happens for real--which I hope is super rarely!! 😉

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I don’t know how it works for others, but for me, I feel that the little seed of negative emotions a show plants in me never grows into something that is translatable to real life. Also, a show I love can still make me mad, angry, wistful, regretful,… but in a meaningful way, if that makes sense. It must be worth it. I must be rewarded for feeling those emotions. There must be other positive emotions to balance it out. But I am well aware that each person has own mechanism of coping with things, so I’m only speaking for myself. I don’t think there’d come a day I’d deal with anger better because I have had to deal with it by watching a bad show.

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Aha! Yes. I'm in total agreement that folks learn to cope with their emotions--positively and negatively--in different ways.

But, I do want to be clear that I don't hate watch "bad shows" if they're just bad shows. I grant you that Kkokdu and Heavenly Idol were also pretty badly constructed, but what I'm talking about here are shows that I watch because they've grabbed my negative emotions. Like @gikata said, because I care.

The shows themselves can be generally perceived as "well-done" like Yumi's Cells and Be Melo, but if what I'm feeling is negative affect, and I push through...that, to me, is a hate-watch.

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Yes, I’ve got the broader meaning of your argument by another comment of yours up there, and my response is up there ^^

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I guess “what is hate-watching?” is also a question meant for discussions within the scope of this prompt.

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Correct!!

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I believe we all know what we can or can't tolerate, irrespective of the opening fiction gives to help visualize them.
And we walk away when we see it from a distance.

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👏👏👏♥️😘👌

What a perfect philosophy. If only I was disciplined enough to follow your example.

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I'm notorious for suffering bad dramas for the sake of actor bias - much less lately than before, look, I've made a progress! - which I wouldn't always call hate watch... But sometimes there's just no other words to describe the experience. Main rule here is: It's only hate when you care somewhat - otherwise that's indifference.

This is directly related to my stress level while watching - if I had zero prior expectations other than ogling a beloved face for a few hours, why would I be seriously annoyed at any bad elements? But if I did have some hopes for the plot/other actors, oh boy... The bigger my expectations were, the worse is the hatred when show does not deliver. Same for dramas that started out strong and then went downhill - I prefer to drop these, but sometimes I don't, and that's when my full unhinged snark shows its venomous head. Pretty sure you can recall some examples of that...

Sadly, my faves seems to love trolling me with spectacularly crappy dramas on a regular basis. Well, then they can't complain when I troll them back in my reviews for I'm always judging media, good and bad, with the same intense level of passion^^ The biggest problem usually is to resist the urge to punch the screen...

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Then at least the hate-watch serves some purpose, you finding some fun in trolling them in your reviews, doesn’t it?

I think the same goes for @attiton , she finds joy in experimenting 😊

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Yes, I'm with @gikata that it can't be a "hate" watch if you're not feeling anything. Then you're just trolling yourself by sticking with a show.

As for experimenting, I don't know that this is what I do. I certainly don't look for opportunities to inhabit my own negative affect. They just are statistically likely to happen when you spend so much time watching dramas!!!

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I may try to give a not-so-tempting premise or an unknown cast a chance, but that's as far as my experimentation goes. If I'm bound to torture myself with a very bad show, at least I need a very good reason to do so!

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To a certain degree, yes))) I also like to think that my harsh brutally honest reviews help other people because I always try my best to explain WHY the show sucks, not just yell "don't watch it, save yourself!" with no further elaborating even tho sometimes I probably should've for everyone's sake. Idk if that's how things truly are or I'm just being a happy delulu, but if it's the latter let me be pls don't be shy to say so)))

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Brutal honesty always works as well as a screamed stay away - unless a watcher wants to hate watch. 😂

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Ah ha! Now we're talking "if I had zero prior expectations other than ogling a beloved face for a few hours". 👍👌😊😍

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THAT is always a valid reason to put up with a crappy show! Well, almost always...

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💯♥️✅ Totally valid ... until it isn't. Sigh, Impossible Heir. 😪

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Hate watching is not good. And I'll also add that it is not fun.

There are so many dramas I've stayed away from simply because it had an ingredient that'll lead to a hate watch.

I've hate watched before. Of recent, I was hate watching Live Your Own Life because I wasn't cool with Ha Joon's character. Surprisingly I liked Ha Joon and was team Ha Joon in Destined With You but somehow, I hate watched his scenes in LYOL for almost 30-35 episodes.
Another more recent hate watch was Our Blooming Youth. And that's because it did something I'll never forgive in a rom-com story. I perfectly understand if A and C will not be the endgame, but A and B will instead. But what I'll never forgive is cancelling out the history A and C shared and built simply because they won't end up together and it is the past. Past or not, romance stories have to respect the history and love that was shared, especially when the C was not a bad guy or a bad lady. The way OBY handled its love triangle soiled the romance for me and gave me a distaste for Park Hyung-shik. That was my first time watching him and the writers did a good job pissing me off.

The reason why I hate watch is the reason why I don't... I don't like the main cast, or the leads.
I specifically stayed away from Wonderful World because of a particular actor I won't name but you already know the name. I did want to have to critique this person. It is sad to not watch Kim Nam-joo and Kim Kang-woo. So I'll watch this when it ends so it'll be a single feeling and not spanning over weeks.

I stayed away from The Matchmakers cause I can't stand Ro-woon. TM was sooo good that it didn't stop me from watching what the rave about episode 13 is, but I was glad I didn't watch the whole drama. The recaps were enough for me.
I've stayed away from a number of dramas lead by young bloods for fear of hate watching them, for example Twinkling Watermelon. Why? I do not trust them to lead a story. Often than not, I've not bothered to confirm because I can see how they acted in dramas they've previously been in. TW turned out to be a really good drama judging by the reception here. Still, I know I made the right decision for myself.
If more thoughts come to my head, I'll drop it.
But generally, I can tell dramas I'll hate watch from a distance so I do not bother starting them. I've dropped dramas right at news bites and teasers cause I know I'll hate watch it should I press play on them.

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*raises glass of your preferred beverage* well said, here, here!

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I perfectly understand if A and C will not be the endgame, but A and B will instead. But what I'll never forgive is cancelling out the history A and C shared and built simply because they won't end up together and it is the past. Past or not, romance stories have to respect the history and love that was shared, especially when the C was not a bad guy or a bad lady.

There was no love shared there though. It was purely arranged marriage with no obligation on the lady's part to tie herself to someone she didn't love, especially when she didn't have to anymore. There was no true history at all. And it's not like B didn't try to send her to C (assuming B is CP and C is Sargennt). I don't mind you didn't like it, but not liking it on the love premise is wrong.
It's frustrating for us from these cultures who know how awfully binding arranged marriages can be and makes a villain out of perfectly good people because they do not want to be tied to an imaginary person anymore or treated like cattle.

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It isn't something done by OBY alone. The fates of A, B and C is a pattern I've seen play out times without numbering in several dramas. I can list a number of stories where I was cool with the planned romance pairs but displeased with how they handled the romantic history this people shared with others.

I gave OBY as an example because of how it gave me an unpleasant intro to Park Hyung-shik.

I made mention that I like that dramas respect the history shared between between people. Bethroted or love, a history is a history.
Bethroted or not, one of them was invested in it, wholeheartedly. We have seen arranged marriages blossom into love binding marriages as much as we have seen awfully binded marriages. Besides OBY and The Forbidden Marriage, the other dramas that did this were modern dramas. So I don't think it falls within the parameters of a culture laced with awfully binding arranged marriages.

I'll copy the last sentences in that paragraph as it gives the response to the your last sentence in the first paragraph and gives clarity to the section of the paragraph you highlighted...:
Past or not, romance stories have to respect the history and love that was shared, especially when the C was not a bad guy or a bad lady.

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I do not have much patience for love traingles. Mr Queen also had it and it didn't translate well. The SML wasn't a bad guy per se, just obsessive, so a grey character, but he truly cared for the woman when the ML did not; The BOF triangle was downright obnoxious. The SML was a lovely guy while the ML was not. Same in Nevertheless. However, none of these women owed the nice characters their heart.

IMHO a character or a person should never owe another character their emotional scape just because they are nice people. In fact none of us should ever be obligated to romance someone because they are incredibly nice and hold a torch for us.

We can have our biases though as an audience and that is OK. I think for OBY it did really well because the premise was discomfortingly close to reality, even by current standards where these type of marriages exist.

What I will agree with though is that they could have done better with Sargent's curve, but it's not a reflection on what the main couple feels for each other or diminish it just because this characters exists and carries an obsessive love for a woman he knows nothing about.

I think CP's character in OBY was one of the most beautifully written. He loved a woman, he tried to do the right thing by trying to send her off to his friend, and he let her go to live on her own when she would not go, until his friend gave him a go ahead to follow his heart. She came back to him. The end. Sargent got the rough end by the writer and could have been better written. However, it's perfectly OK not to like an actor or a character and I hope you find something that might make you like PHS better.

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I see the beautiful case you've built for the CP. I am not opposing it.

I am also clear on what I stand for and that is this, respect the history shared between people. Don't write or treat C like trash or love thwarter because C isn't endgame. And so we are clear once again, C has always been both male and female. The C in OBY is male so...

I am not saying force A and C together because of their history. I am aware of the thought that feelings change. All I am saying is respect - emphasis on the word respect -, respect the history shared by characters.

I never okayed anything along the lines of your second paragraph, so it seems you're taking me out of context. No one should be obligated to love anyone, arranged marriages or not.

And to the third paragraph, that is subjective. It wasn't, for me. I knew they could have done better. They didn't.

I don't want to pick to pieces the details of the show cause I already did so while it was airing and I do not intend to again. However, I was sure of how bad the writers handled the triangle there and it is a pattern I had seen play out several times. However beautiful it was written, it was nowhere near noble. It was full of gaslighting. I am sure you think differently about this but I know what I watched. Just so we are clear again on another thing, I wasn't shipping the A and C together at any point in the story so there was no SLS for me. I totally shipped A & B until the writers unpleasant way of handling C which ruined the romance they were building with A and B for me. The way they handled C might not have affected the story between A and B for you. Well, it did for me. I don't think our minds needs to be changed on this regards. Time, will do the work instead.

Peace!

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I mean you cannot hate a character who did nothing wrong just because you feel sorry for the second lead...But okay it's their choice, I just didn't get the logic there🫠

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I'm sorry but especially in the case of OBY seargent was weird to me..why the hell he would love a women before he even met her or knew her ? It would have been ok if he atleast met her. She didn't owe him anything but he behaved she did. As per crown he acted so well in this tough situation..He never acted on his love, IT WAS ALWAYS HER CHOICE, he valued and respected her opinion even it didn't work for him. He was ready to send her to seargent if she agreed, he was ready to sent her to the person she loved if she wanted, he was again ready to let her live alone because that's what she wanted. He never responded to her love until his friend told him to go..where can you find such a ml ? I'm really baffled you finding him unlikable. Sorry it's your opinion i know but i don't see the basis for it..that's all.. like his love was the most selfless one..

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Aamm...There's no history btw them..it was a marriage contract and she was going to tell him about backing out after everything was solved which is pretty understable. I don't think they made sml bad because even though he reacted badly at first but later he let them go..which is a good character growth.
I'm not continuing this thread, I don't you and me will come to understand eo pov. I still don't get you. But I just wanted to clarify somethings that's why i replied. Anyways it's ok people have different opinion...😇

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I could be accused or excused for probably hate watching in the past. If I had invested so much time in a long series, I usually try to finish it even after it goes off the rails. But over time I have gotten more analytical in watching dramas than suspending all disbelief, such as the last weekender LYOL which had the elements and dialog facts to be a good show but repeatedly messed up every aspect of the production. I guess there is a fine line between hate watching and being very critical of the program. And I think it is slightly different from watching a program that is SO BAD that it becomes a watchable farce.

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Yeah, I think shows that are so bad they're good is a whole separate category. And I will say that I much prefer shows that are totally aware that they're ridiculous to bad shows that think they're "great art". Schlock that knows it's schlock can be a lot of fun - pretentious schlock, not so much.

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At the risk of flying brickbats - for me, this was the distinction between Moon in the Day and Castaway Diva. Moon was ridiculous schlock but didn't pretend to be anything more, and I watched with bemused fascination but absolutely no stake in the game. "Wow, so that's how they make something this lame?" was 90% of my thought process. Diva put together all the superficial elements of a great show and attempted to tell me repeatedly that it was one, with its self-important moralizing fantasy, angsty family trauma-drama, and bombastic musical themes. That turned into a true hate-watch for me. I said twice, right out loud here, that I'd dropped it but still sneaked back to finish it because I (a) never stopped liking the little moments of Chae Jong-hyeop magic and (b) enjoyed some cathartically righteous rage (and maybe weirdly kind of wallowed in how much I disliked exactly the aspects that many other people liked). Honestly, I do regret watching it, though - indulging in that much annoyance isn't healthy, and I dropped the next much-loved drama that was starting to evoke the same feelings.

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Cast Away Diva was such a huge, huge disappointment to me that I didn't even know where it fell in my list of things. It was so....I don't know...I just don't know. I can't say I hate watched it, but I did wait for it to get better. Even Chae Jong-hyeop's dimples didn't do it for me, even a mild case of second FL didn't do it, unexpected voice of Eun Bin didn't do it, and all that angst ridden violence of a villain who made little sense just did it in for me. At the end I was so unmoved that it made me wonder what made someone like Eun Bin pick this script up. And who though Cast away Diva was a good name....

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I try as much as possible not to hate-watch dramas. But sometimes, I do continue watching dramas where I am annoyed with many aspects of character or plot development (SISSYPHIS, I'm looking at you) and/or feel strongly the actors and writers could have done better / where I expected more. I like to trash-talk dramas like that, and yet even that comes from a gold place, I think.

If I truly despised a drama/totally can't abide an aspect of it, I drop it completely.

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Sisyphys was a hate wate for me as well. Too confusing.

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For me, mostly I stand through a show I hate for the cast or because I already made it far through the show, so I tell myself to stick it through.

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This is a topic right up my alley, since a fair number of shows I watch I find it satisfying to make fun of--usually for bad writing or, less frequently, for weak acting. So thanks @missvictrix for bringing up this topic.

First, I am retired. My time is not precious, and I have plenty of it. So I have the luxury of ignoring the sage advice to drop a show you don’t like. I do agree, however, that the first element of the “science” of hate watching is that If the show is truly offensive or depressing to you, you should just drop it. (Unfortunately for me, my watching partner, my wife, really does have a completion compulsion, so I have watched shows-- Our Blues (2022) and Trolley (2023) come to mind—that I consider a daily dose of depression.)

But also let me make it clear, that in my opinion, saying that sticking with, and continuing to comment on a show that you actively disdain is truly a matter of “hatred,” is too strong. In fact, the second component of the science of “hate watching” is taking a perverse enjoyment in watching and making fun of a weak show. The very fact that the show is unsatisfying often makes it satisfying to watch and criticize.

Also, one more result of fun hate watching. If the show isn’t offensive or depressing, very often I end up kind of enjoying it beyond the satisfaction of making fun of it. An example of two recent ones that fit that category are King the Land and Dr. Slump. Its no coincidence that both are romances with happy endings, so it just shows that hate and love can be intertwined!

One final thing: I realize, when you love a show, it can be awfully annoying to have someone making fun of it. I actually appreciate it when there are big fans of shows that I think are pretty bad, because their comments make me think about what it is that they are seeing that I am missing. So after reading the comments of fans, I always consider if I’m being too critical. (Of course, usually, I say, “nah--to me the show deserves it.”) Still, I understand that a hate watcher like I sometimes am can be seen as a troll, just trying to annoy people. I assure you, I am not—I’m just enjoying articulating my opinion and pointing out kdrama absurdities. Feel free to ignore my comment if you don’t like it, or, alternatively, argue with me, and I’ll respond in a way respectful to you--if not to the show! So that's my hate watcher's creed.

Along those lines, let me just conclude by saying what I always say, that to me, the great virtue of Dramabeans is that the vast majority of commentators are able to separate the show from its fans--or its critics!

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Kudos ... especially your ending remarks. *cheers* Bring it on!

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I don't hate watch and I don't understand it as a concept--life is so short. Why would anyone spend any of it watching something they don't like? I do, however, have a tendency to drop shows too soon or, to put it another way, to decide I hate something abruptly and then absolutely refuse to spend another single second on it. And sometimes, I sortof regret this, especially when I read recaps that make the show sound like something I might actually have liked were I to go back to it. But I (almost) never do.

In general, I am an easygoing person who avoids conflict. As such, throughout my life, I've been very slow to develop serious interpersonal issues with others that would demand confrontation. This is not to say that I like everyone because of course I don't. But for the people in my life I tend to have a lot of patience and loyalty until . . . I suddenly don't. It's hard to say what, exactly, will do it, but when I'm done, I'm done. I guess that has carried over into dramas, too.

Shows I've Done This With:

My Lovely Liar
You From Another Star
Just Between Lovers (although I did go back at one point and finish it)
Hotel Del Luna
Be Melodramatic (I know it's a classic and very well written. But something about the fart episode turned me off, I guess?)
Romance is a Bonus Book

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I don't hate watch and I don't understand it as a concept--life is so short. Why would anyone spend any of it watching something they don't like?

I know this is something of a rhetorical question, but I'm going to answer it with more seriousness and greater length than you might want to read!

Even though I approach most pop culture for pleasure and escape, which is why I watch so many fantasy romance kdramas, I do also like learning new things, if only to provide a pseudo-rational justification for spending 8 hours watching so I can experience the vicarious thrill of a love confession and kiss.

I find I can learn just as much from a show I don't like as one that I love:
There are shows that everyone refers to, that I start watching and I realize I just don't like, yet I continue watching them, because I want to know what other Dramabeans commentators talking about: these include Goblin, Crash Landing On You and My Liberation Notes.

My "hate watches" most often occur when I like the original concept of the show, which is why I begin watching it, but then "hate" its execution. So I can learn a lot more about what I think of as the "rhetoric" of television/film: not just the writing, but the acting, staging, scenes, etc. and imagine how I might "fix" these aspects.

The final thing I learn from shows I don't like, is that with each one I get better at identifying and articulating what it is I don't like. And in the spirit of continual self-improvement, that, I think, is worthwhile, even in the short time I have left in this mortal sphere!

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I appreciate your answer. It sounds like ultimately you *do* enjoy most every drama in some way, because even the process of analyzing why you don't love it (and others do) is pleasurable.

I do not find that pleasurable, lol. But I will say that it's nice that you can continue to watch certain shows with your wife even when you don't personally like them very much. My husband has complained over the years--and rightfully so--that it can be very challenging to watch shows with me precisely because there's a decent chance (especially if it airs for more than a season or two) that'll I suddenly decide halfway through that I'm over it. (This happened years ago with "Six Feet Under" and "The Sopranos" and I don't think he has forgiven me yet.) If I could adopt your mindset, even temporarily, he would definitely appreciate it!

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@laurensophie. Having witnessed your thoughtful approach to kdramas, I doubt your husband complains too much! He, like I, is undoubtedly grateful to be married to such a brilliant spouse!

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This is not to say that I like everyone because of course I don't. But for the people in my life I tend to have a lot of patience and loyalty until . . . I suddenly don't. It's hard to say what, exactly, will do it, but when I'm done, I'm done. I guess that has carried over into dramas, too.

I feel so seen reading this. This is me too!!
I’d say I always find some charm in an interesting relationship, be it between me and another person, or me and a book/drama. When I don’t feel the charm anymore, that’s when I’m done with it. How the charm can be lost is a case by case situation, there’s no common formula. But if I had to define its course somehow, I’d say it usually starts with the loss of respect.

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The thing that is most likely to make me stay watching a frustrating show that becomes a hate watch is if I expect to see things turn around. The two examples below were hate watches because my expectations based on the start of the drama were not met by the way it played it and the end was just a big disappointment.

Why Her was frustrating because initially the female lead was really strong and good at her job but then the character started to deteriorate for no reason other than to move the plot along and it was very disappointing to see the romance story line because it was unnecessary. The show also got the award for showing a body drop scene as often as possible at the most random points in the story just for shock value.

I think I only stayed watching because the weecap and comments section made the process a fun experience. It was also on at a time when I had just joined DB and I really wanted to maximise the number of live dramas I watched; half the year had gone by so I felt I had to make up for lost time so I could participate in the bean count. I learnt the lesson the hard way that some shows are not worth hanging in there just to get the bean.

Something is the rain kept me watching because the romance was so amazing at the start and I had every confidence that it would end well.
However, the female lead's character and her mum became really hard to watch. The soundtrack nearly pushed me over the edge and it was only a couple of perfect for the moment songs that kept me from muting the sound. I was so annoyed that I had stuck with it when it didn't feel sufficiently resolved for me to feel my time and emotions had not be wasted.

It was before I had DB so I asked someone to watch it because I needed to see if it was just me who experienced it that way (I didn't say how it had effected me. They had watched and loved a popular drama that I had not enjoyed so I thought they might see things differently to me and help me see alternative perspectives). They watched it months later and were equally frustrated but by then I had watched loads of other K-dramas and joined DB so I felt really bad for making them share that experience.

Now I have learnt to drop a drama I am not enjoying I rarely hate watch a drama. Sometimes I stick with it through weecaps because I want to know what happened in the end but most of the time I don't follow the story. I don't like to have my stress hormones released in my down time because of fictional characters and their experiences. A prime example was my reaction to some of the characters in Bora Deborah, I gave it a couple of episodes and my emotions didn't change so I dropped it. I read the weecaps and comments for a few more episodes to see if it improved but it took a long time to turn around. I stopped following the weecap because I no longer cared about the characters. However, with Forecasting love and weather I stopped watching due to my reactions towards certain...

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characters I followed the weecaps and jumped back in to watch towards the end of the show. Unfortunately those strong emotions held over long after the show finished and every time I saw one of the actor's face I had to talk myself down to remember it was the character not the actor that wound me up.

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Yes, sometimes a show has such a strong start that I've continued it even when it became pretty clear that things were going off the rails. This happens most frequently with live watches where there is no one to sound the alarm that the ending is a train wreck.

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"Why Her was frustrating because initially the female lead was really strong and good at her job".

💯 Exactly that. She was awesome ... and then suddenly she was not Wae!? It was like she got amnesia or brain transplant without a ToD. Boo.

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Besides THE IMPOSSIBLE HEIR, WHY HER? is the only hate watch I can remember. Back then I hadn't yet mastered the art of dropping, and it was also great fun ranting about the drama with other commenters.

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FLs losing their individuality and power (or, as the Mad Hatter says in the Alice in Wonderland film: Their "muchness") is a major problem; as if the goal and Happy Ending™ for a flowering, talented girl was to grow up to be a non-descript accessory for the ML.

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*Love Like the Galaxy* *cough, cough*

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I’m one of those who used to hate watch when I first started K dramas. I thought maybe there weren’t very many shows out there to watch, and I needed watch the ones I found. I particularly hated the trope of the main guy who is mean but gets a little bit nicer at the end of the show. I watched two episodes of boys over flowers and dropped it because the main character was so abusive. A few months later, I read that it was such a famous drama, that you could understand all the in jokes about K dramas if you would watch that show. So I picked it up and finished watching it. I hated it the whole way through. After that I learned to drop shows. The only other one I probably hate watched is tunnel. Because I wanted to see the actor, and I’d been told it was a good show. But I mostly just kept a running count of how many people got killed.

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Most of my hate-watching comes down to curiosity.
I kept watching 'Angels Last Mission;Love' after I hated it, because I was curious about religion and culture. ( I ended up stopping because it seemed more about the writer's view of God than South Korean sociology.)
There are a few other shows that I have watched a few more episodes/to the end instead of stopping, because I was more curious about the settings or the characters than about the story. (Romance is a bonus book- If the ensemble cast had not been so stellar, I would have stayed for the landscape- the beach in the snow slayed me- and Doom at your service- an excellent character in search of a good plot).
I have also Started watching things as a hate watch- expecting to last a few episodes just to have some idea of the show- and been suprisingly caught. ' Love Alarm' was like that. it sounded like a gut churning premise with a ML who was all style and no substance. But the writer had a suprisingly mature story, and the director put Song Kang's superficiality to good use.

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Like @claire2009, Healer’s, “Hate is a word I rarely use”.

Background. When I first entered kdramaland (with KBS’s HEALER (2014/15)) in early 2016 for some foolish reason I adopted a rule: ‘Start a drama, end a drama’. Dumb. I followed that rule for almost two years until the appearance in March of 2018 of OCN’s CHILDREN OF A LESSER GOD. I started watching that drama on the dark side but the subs were so bad (and I mean bad!) that COALG became my first ‘drop’. It was my emancipation. The best thing. ‘Dropped’ now entered my kdrama vocabulary.
In the kdramaworld (less so with cdramas) I am still kind of picky/selective on what dramas I start. I don’t consider myself a serial dropper.
A couple/few years ago I stayed with 2 dramas (both my ‘stinkers of the year’) to the end out of loyalty to favorites of mine who were MLs. Both dramas happened to be in the horror genre and on OCN (late of happy memory):
1. DARK HOLE (2021) (12 eps) (Viki US). I stayed with all 12 episodes out of loyalty to Lee Joon-hyuk (1984). I told him (in my imagination of course lol) that he owed me one. He repaid that debt later in 2021 with his great performance in his first sageuk: SECRET ROYAL INSPECTOR & JOY;
2. A SUPERIOR DAY (Fortunately only 8 eps) (Viki US). I stayed with ASD out of loyalty to Jin Goo. I also told him he owed me one. I am still waiting for Jin Goo to make good on that debt lol.

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It's not surprising that Healer‘s (@claire2009) and Bong-soo have the same philosophy. 🤣
Actually it's my worldview too - strongly dislike means I'm outta here. Nothing to "hate".

Brave of you to suffer for your MLs, but then all of us have done some such "service" in the name of love.

We are all waiting for Jin Goo with a stellar drama which blows our socks off!! 💯♥️😍

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Yes, although I work at night wearing black outfits and Bong-soo during the day wearing white and bright colors, we're one 😁.

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☯️

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I very rarely hate-watch a show because I taught myself to know when a drama is a lost cause and when to drop it to not waste my time.

The only time I hate-watch a show is if I'm almost to the end of it (ep 13 onwards or so) and find it pointless to drop it at that mark when I could just get it done and over with, even if the ending is pure garbage.

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I barely have the time to watch the dramas I think I will like so hate watching is not something I engage in. But I am guilty of doing for a couple of shows. The one I really did was The Matchmakers. After loving the first half I realized where the show was going and I watched the rest with mostly ff just to see if it had the audacity to go in that direction. Unfortunately it did and you all know how I felt about it.
Another similar drama was The Red Sleeve where I also liked the first episodes but I after reading the true love story of the real royal couple I found the drama being dishonest. They could have chosen any other royal couple but they chose to screw up probably the only real one in Joseon history.
Lastly, the KTL. It was not really a hate watch but more of curiosity watch of why it was so watched by many people.

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I don’t really hate watch. Life is stressful enough. If things bother me I’ll tend to drift away and never come back. Like walking away from an uncomfortable situation at a party. Recent example: the gay brother’s situation in Wedding Impossible. It may have redeemed itself but I will only find out through recaps. In my early days I used to watch things all the way through thinking my investment in viewing hours so far meant that surely it would get better. I’m older and wiser now. So many shows start strong and implode = kdrama reality. Now if I’m getting a feeling that things are NQR I trust myself. I’ve had many “huh? What happened?” moments and sat through plenty of dross some of which I didn’t mind. The times I have felt rage though are when I’ve committed to the end and felt cheated by shoddy storytelling (Do do la la).

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I can't say I've ever hate-watched anything before. But I've definitely hate-read a bunch of books before.

I think it may have something to do with how I can mark it as complete an give it a 1 star on Goodreads. If I had an account on a k-drama tracker, I might be doing some hate-watching myself.

But as it stands, I just lose interest and can't be bothered to ever finish the stuff I don't like....

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"Do you do it?" Hate-watching is my lastname.

I used to do it way more in the past because I was horrible at dropping shows. Now it's more conscious and intentional, and not that often.

I do it because it's fun, especially when you're not doing it alone.
Even if a show (LifS for ex) is bad, I don't regret watching it because the experience itself was fun. And, for me, watching dramas is 50% about the fun.

I also do it when the show is about to end. It's like a "hate-finish". At one point I started hating the show and I stayed because I had few episodes left, or because I hoped it would get better (but it never did).

Also, hate-watching isn't that hateful most of the time. Or at least that's my case. If I really hate a show, I drop it.

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I have read some memorable takes from you when you flounce out of a recap. 😄

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Oh, yeah, I do get carried away with the comments. Hahahaha.

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Your comments add to the fun in the comments section so please don’t ever stop sharing your disappointment and frustrations. It’s been so quiet without you.

I am looking forward to your come back. Hope you are having fun with your books and other activities.

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I've missed all the fun. :(
But hopefully this week I'll be back on track. ^^

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Yay🥳 looking forward to seeing you back where you belong.

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I really missed the 30sec delay between pressing the "send" button and my comment actually being sent.

Now I really feel like I'm back home.

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Haha 30sec delay 😂😂🤣🤣

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Oraenmaniya Chingu. "Hate-watching is my lastname." is the signature step of Tabong. 😊

Indy I love your use of language (I always learn so much from your comments ♥️) but this "flounce out of a recap" surely takes the cake. 😘 👏

Jiayou! May dramas never fail to disappoint you Tabong. 🤣🤣🤣

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Yes Indy made me laugh out loud as it was so spot on!

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😂😂

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Tabong is such a cute, happy presence on DB ... impossible to ignore and offering (in @indyfan 's words) "thoughtful takes in praise or in hate".

While I love interacting with Tabong in all her moods her "flounces" are just too memorable.

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Thanks for taking it in the fun spirit it was intended Beanies, esp. Tabong. I really do admire your takes even when they’re against a show I like. I envision a flamenco dancer tossing their head, swirling their skirts, and stomping their heels before flouncing off. If you’re gonna do it, do it style!

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