Secret Garden: Episode 13
by javabeans
Some really nice moments in this episode, and some long-awaited movement on Ra-im’s part (finally!), help mitigate some other bits that I hated. Or rather, one bit in particular. (I really wanted not to hate it, but it’s one of those things that you just can’t bring yourself to accept, y’know?)
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Jung Yeob – “Love You” [ Download ]
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EPISODE 13 RECAP
My absolute favorite part of Joo-won staring down at a sleeping Ra-im is how, when she frowns, he frowns too. Despite his emotional stuntedness and his absolutely inappropriate ways of treating people’s feelings, he’s in tune with her feelings and dislikes seeing her experiencing a nightmare. (Too bad he can’t make the mental connection and see that HE’S the cause of some of her waking nightmares, so to speak, with his harassment.)
When she awakens, they stare at each other and have a silent conversation (their thoughts are to themselves, but form a dialogue) which ends with Ra-im mentally telling Joo-won to come by in her dreams again. And then Joo-won utterly ruins the connection by whispering, “Uh, there’s an empty room next door…”
Ra-im grimaces — men! — and shoves her pillow in his face, but both immediately duck down and feign sleep when Jong-soo enters the room. Seeing Joo-won cuddled up to Ra-im, he drags him away, then settles down on the ground to claim the spot next to her.
Not about to be outdone, Joo-won pretends to sleep-wriggle his way back up, wedging himself between the two. He allows himself a gloating smile and snuggles against Ra-im’s back. One point, Joo-won.
In the morning, Ra-im and Jong-soo head out for a hike together, ignoring Joo-won’s pestering questions. He manages to catch up to them on the trail, though he gasps along and asks them to slow down. Instead, Ra-im suggests upping their speed, and Jong-soo happily obliges. One point, Jong-soo.
At the summit, Ra-im declares that winter is her favorite season because the cold forces you to keep walking to keep from freezing to death, warming the body. Well, that’s optimistic in a morbid sort of way.
On their way down, they find Joo-won huddled in the cold, notably opting for the exact opposite of Ra-im’s hypothetical scenario. He sits and waits rather than moving, his body cooling instead of heating.
Grimacing in pain, he makes a big deal about twisting his ankle, and hobbles along with the aid of the other two. They’re particularly annoyed with the way he leans all over Ra-im, using this as an excuse to slip an arm around her and pat her hair.
Finally Jong-soo has enough and declares that it’ll be faster to just carry Joo-won on piggyback… and miraculously, Joo-won declares his ankle healed. Hur.
Disgusted with his cheap trick, Ra-im delivers a swift kick to the shin. Joo-won protests that he really was hurt, clutching his kicked leg while hopping on his good one… then loses his balance and goes toppling down the slope.
Oska calls Seul’s social-climbing friend to ask her about things he should have frankly asked years ago. I suppose he was afraid to face the possibility that he’d been an ass, as he admitted to Ra-im, and now the friend confirms as much. Seul didn’t actually study abroad with that douchebag, as he’d believed, and had even attempted suicide. The friend advises Oska to hear the rest from Seul, since it’s not really her place to divulge all this. Yes, so discreet of her to share everything but one last detail.
Oska grows teary-eyed as she reminds him that Seul doesn’t have a lot of friends because he’d been her everything. She was always there when he needed her, but he was never there for her. The truth, it hurts.
Seul’s employee confesses to accidentally leaking Oska’s plagiarized song, which is doubly bad for Seul because in addition to making her responsible for this professional gaffe, it also means Oska was right when he suspected her.
As Tae-sun watches interestedly, Oska comes barging in and takes her aside to talk. He doesn’t say anything at first, just fixes his attention on peeling a plate of roasted chestnuts. Seul sits there awkwardly, her anger at being wrongly accused fading since the accusation wasn’t so wrong after all. She admits to being responsible for the song leak, but he doesn’t react much, just keeps peeling.
He offers her the chestnuts, having remembered how she liked them, but she shoots him down — he’s mixed her up with someone else. Oops. Frustrated with himself more than anything, he asks why she ever dated a jerk like him in the first place. He promises to think harder about how he hurt her. (Geez, you still don’t know? You declared that she meant nothing to you — to a guy who you thought she was with for a year — and can’t put two and two together? He gets points for effort, not so much for brains.)
Back to the mountain retreat. Joo-won’s business meeting will keep him behind for another day, so the stunt team heads down first. However, Ra-im isn’t with them; she (reluctantly) stays behind to tend to Joo-won, since he was injured when she kicked him.
Given Joo-won’s stunt about the ankle, Ra-im is reasonably suspicious that he’s faking his injured back, too. As he rests up at his own quarters, he wants her to tend to the swelling, then pulls down his pants (pffffffffft!) to show her the bruise. Ra-im whirls around and squeaks out a protest.
He asks what she did with Oska that other night, and she answers that she went to eat pork skins with him. He grimaces at her pointed comment that he ate it “like a man,” unlike some people.
He insists on taking a walk with her, citing physical therapy, and they walk on in silence. I love that they walk in step with each other, like Ra-im did in his fantasies, and he tells her as much — that he’s walked with her before, back when he kept imagining her appearing before him.
Ra-im looks at him as she thinks to herself:
“Ra-im’s narration: There are things that are thought of as fantasies merely because they’re far away. Starry bodies are like that. Just as it is with people who are too beautiful, they readily disappear.“
The line is a quote from a book, and she continues, thoughtfully:
“In the books that I’d read to find out what he’s really like, there was a passage that had long settled in my heart.”
Joo-won faces her with a smile, and tears start to form in her eyes as she thinks:
Ra-im: “It’s now that I realize it — how beautiful a person he is. And therefore, how far away he is from me. He’ll disappear someday, too, like people do when they’re too beautiful.”
(It’s a beautiful scene… but rehashes a sentiment I’m pretty sure has been shown before. It sorta sucks out the impact of this “revelation” when the point being made is an old one. Although it is nice that we finally see Ra-im’s longing, on a level that’s deeper than a purely physical pull.)
Joo-won barges in on Ra-im while she’s trying to get a handle on her thoughts, pouting and making trivial requests (water, change the TV channel) just to stretch out their interaction. When he declares he’s going to sleep in the same room with her, she’s not having it and tricks him into stepping outside, then locks the door. Indignant, he tries to pick open the lock with a paper clip, unsuccessfully.
It’s his turn to do the tricking: He talks as though Jong-soo has returned, which draws Ra-im outside, at which point he pushes his way into the room. Before she can shove him out again, he pushes her into bed, holding her to him, and tells her firmly to go to sleep.
Ra-im puts up a struggle, threatening first and then pleading for him to let her go. He doesn’t loosen his grip, and eventually she settles down and stares up at Joo-won for a long beat.
After a charged moment of looking at each other — do you hear that crackling? It’s the tension — Joo-won holds her even tighter and starts reciting his old familiar refrain, the one he used to ground himself in reality whenever his feelings (or hormones) got away from him. Only this time, his voice breaks and takes on a desperate tinge as he recites, over and over.
The next morning, they head straight to the doctor’s office after Joo-won wraps his business meeting. Having assumed he was faking his pain, Ra-im is surprised to hear the doctor declare that the injury was fairly severe.
Joo-won’s mother calls Dr. Lee (Ji-hyun) to ask about Joo-won’s medication, ignoring Ji-hyun’s comment about patient confidentiality and shrilly demanding to know the truth. Ji-hyun is spared a knock-down drag-out fight about medical ethics because Mom receives word that Joo-won was injured, and that Ra-im had been with him.
Ra-im has another stunt training session with Oska, who drives her home afterward. However, he recognizes the chauffeured car parked nearby, and guesses what’s happening. Warning Ra-im to stay away until he calls, he hurries inside — where Mom waits in disgust with a nervous Ah-young.
He tries to get his aunt to leave, but like she’s going to listen to him. Ra-im appears at the door (argh, does she not listen, ever?), and that gets Mom’s hackles up. Oska defends her, but it doesn’t help that Mom’s just found the box of Joo-won’s boxers — the ones he “returned” to Ra-im — and she dumps the box over Ra-im’s head.
Ra-im tries to explain about a misunderstanding, but there’s no easy way to explain Joo-won’s sparkly underpants, and Mom rails against Ra-im’s parents for bringing her up poorly, and raising her to mooch off a rich man.
It’s that low blow that lands with her, and Ra-im says with tears in her eyes that it’s true Joo-won likes her, and that she has developed feelings for him as well — but no matter, because she won’t date him now, no matter what, because he’s not someone she’d dishonor her parents to be with. Crying in earnest, Ra-im says that her father was an outstanding person, and demands that Mom take those words back.
Not bloody likely. Instead, Mom spits out that she can do a lot worse. Yeah, I believe you, viper lady. Finally, Oksa loses his temper and forces his aunt out. When he comes back to check on Ra-im, she’s sobbing her heart out, crumpled on the ground with Ah-young attempting to comfort her.
Hearing that his mother paid a visit to Ra-im, Joo-won immediately heads to Ra-im’s house, and then the action school, to no avail. He then confronts his mother angrily, asking her to back off Ra-im.
Mom declares that she knows he’s taking pills, which to her is a Big Fucking Deal — because of how it would look to the world, of course. Nice of her to care about her son’s health, isn’t it? If word got out that the LOEL president was hopped up on crazy pills, it would look mighty bad.
Mom says the one bit of wisdom she’s probably ever spouted in her life, in telling Joo-won to go for the relationship if he likes her so much. At his astonishment, she points out that he’s not actually fighting with her over this — he’s fighting with himself.
But if he chooses Ra-im, if he marries her and has children with her, he’ll have to give up everything. Mom may eventually accept the child, but Ra-im will never be allowed one step into their hallowed halls. So if he thinks he can be content with only love to sustain him, by all means, go for it.
Finally! Mom graduates from Mere Plot Device and Angstmaker Extraordinaire™ to voice of (spiteful, malicious) reason.
Joo-won returns to Ra-im’s door, this time knowing she’s inside because he can hear her phone ringing. She refuses to answer the door, and in the morning finds him still outside — he sits in his car, having waited through the night.
Joo-won tries to say something, but he admits he doesn’t know how to go about apologizing. If he’s looking for a break, she’s not about to cut him one — not when this is more proof of his arrogant privilege. Why can’t he do something everyone else knows how to do? She’s forever apologizing, and yet he doesn’t even know how.
Ra-im tells him she has to keep living her life in that space where his mother degraded her and her family — so he ought to leave her to her own pathetic life, and return to his fairy tale. She walks away battling tears.
Meanwhile. LOEL is holding its annual VVIP party that night, which Seul plans to attend as part of her patented Piss Oska Off Revenge Plan.
After spending all day in a broody fit, Joo-won comes roaring up to the action school. Ra-im quickly asks Jung-hwan to say she’s not here, but Joo-won knows it’s an excuse and shouts aloud into the empty gym that she’s a coward for hiding, that he’s hardly even begun, that he won’t give up. That if she’s going to reject him, she ought to at least take his calls to tell him so.
Jong-soo comes up to her and points out that Joo-won has a point, and that hiding is the worst option. She bows her head but doesn’t emerge from hiding, and spends the day hunched in the locker room lost in thought. She reads over the string of texts Joo-won sends her, each worried in tone, asking her to answer.
After sitting like that for hours, she finally makes a decision and heads out, arriving at Joo-won’s compound that evening.
It’s not till she’s outside his house that she realizes there’s a party going on. From outside, she sees Joo-won making the rounds, smiling and greeting his guests, and the scene hammers in her status as an outsider (literally) looking in (again, literally) on the unattainable world inside.
Remembering Joo-won’s reaction to her shabby safety-pinned bag earlier, she glances down at her clothes, so unsuitable for this setting.
She hesitates when Joo-won calls, and finally decides to leave, unseen. However, Oska comes walking up at this moment, interrupting her escape.
He notices that she’s freezing and invites her to his house for a warm drink. He urges her to make her presence known to Joo-won, but she’s feeling self-conscious about her appearance and anxiously declines.
That’s no problem: Oska declares himself her fairy godmother (heh) for the night and calls in a styling team to fix her up.
And so it’s a very different, very glammed-up Ra-im who makes quite an entrance at the party, on Oska’s arm. (Ha Ji-won looks hot, but let’s just say that this moment might have had more dramatic impact had Ra-im and Oska not been wearing the same hairstyle.)
Seul glares — surprised, and also peeved to be upstaged just after declaring her intent to be the queen of every event — while Joo-won looks on in a mix of jealousy and shock.
COMMENTS
Is it me, or is the conflict getting really repetitive? I really liked much of this episode, but when you stop to think of what really went down in the big conflict scenes, it seems like the answer is, not much. The acting really kills the moments, whether it’s Joo-won’s viper of a mother being her poisonous self, or Ra-im being torn down by these hoity-toity folks, or Joo-won fighting with himself. But the actual facts of the matter? They’ve been long established and aren’t really changing. Yeah, class differences separate them. We got it ten episodes ago, thanks.
In that respect, Secret Garden has always felt like a bit of an antique, premise-wise — something out of a prior age that has been dressed in modern clothing, but hasn’t actually updated its themes or motifs accordingly. It’s the classic mistress dilemma — the woman refuses to be a kept woman, but the man refuses to marry her because his wife must be his social “equal.”
I get this conflict if we’re talking about, say, 19th-century British aristocracy, or 16th-century Joseon classism, or old-timey fairy tales. But it’s a stretch here in modern times. Chaebol families are the closest Korea has to a modern aristocracy and the thematic parallels generally work, but not perfectly, which is why these increasingly dramatic classist clashes are starting to wear thin.
Warning: Rant ahead. Regarding the bed scene —
This scene makes me so mad, because I’m so conflicted about it and it’s aggravating that I even feel torn because I know I should just hate it outright, but I realize the chemistry is sizzling and our couple is just so damn electric together. But I can’t enjoy it either, because the moment is just all kinds of wrong.
Yes, he’s hot, and yes, I love Hyun Bin — who wouldn’t want to be aggressively courted by him? But the fact remains that in this situation, a man tricks a woman, forces his way into her room, ignores her repeated protests, shoves her onto a bed, and restrains her body while holding her close. True, he doesn’t attempt any further bodily violations… but really, isn’t that enough? It’s already assault. The fact that he’s a dreamboat doesn’t diminish the ick factor for me.
Perhaps you can argue that Ra-im actually likes him, that her resistance fades, that she’s actually okay with it. But she says no over and over, and struggles, and asks him to get off her. It resembles a lot of the “forced seduction” scenarios of old romance novels, the kind of scenes that romanticized rape (hey, the hero got the heroine to like it, therefore his brute force was justified) — but which are, tellingly, no longer considered acceptable.
This is so close to the whole “She was asking for it” argument that gets thrown around, the lame defense of “It’s not assault because she liked it, honest.” I’m just… really, really torn about this moment because I want to like it, in fact I do sort of see the appeal and that drives me nuts. Because I also hate it. The very fact that Joo-won IS so appealing is not a mitigating factor but in fact an exacerbating one — it blurs the lines so that you want to cut him some slack, and that does everyone a grave disservice.
I’m more irritated with the drama itself than I am with Joo-won the character, because it’s one thing for a flawed character to act in stupid ways. But it’s a whole other thing for a drama to put forth this scenario and then romanticize it as sexy and moving, putting an uncomfortable glossy sheen on a situation that at its core is deeply problematic. Even if I hadn’t personally known friends (yes, plural) who were raped by men who claimed after the fact, “I thought you wanted it,” it would be hugely upsetting. Oh, it’s okay to assault a woman if she likes you back? Okay, then. Swoon.
But still: Urg, drama, you just ruined Joo-won for me! He’d been teetering on the brink for a while, but had finally won me over with the awesome watching-her-sleeping scene in the beginning of the episode. I don’t know if I can go back to rooting for him now — you can’t un-sour milk, can you?
RELATED POSTS
- Secret Garden: Episode 12
- Secret Garden: Episode 11
- Secret Garden: Episode 10
- Secret Garden: Episode 9
- Secret Garden: Episode 8
- Secret Garden: Episode 7
- Secret Garden: Episode 6
- Secret Garden: Episode 5
- Secret Garden: Episode 4
- Secret Garden: Episode 3
- Secret Garden: Episode 2
- Secret Garden: Episode 1
Tags: featured, Ha Ji-won, Hyun Bin, Kim Sa-rang, Philip Lee, Secret Garden, Yoon Sang-hyun
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101 Lahlita
December 26, 2010 at 7:52 PM
Back to comment again, hopefully this time I'll be a bit more coherent. By and large comments have demonstrated understanding and respect, but there are a few recurring themes that I see that give me pause, and I'd like to address them as calmly as I can.
1) Ra-im is a stunt-woman. She could kick his ass/fight him off if she really wanted to.
Please read post # 61.1 momosan, about her sister's colleague in the dojo, and then put yourself or a woman you love (mother, sister, aunt, friend) in her place. Who are we to determine how hard someone has to fight? Why would anyone dare to say they know what another person really wants or is thinking? Those who defend Joo-won are assuming a LOT about Ra-im, and projecting their own thoughts into her head, at the complete disregard of two very important things: Ra-im's words, and her actions. She said "no," repeatedly, and she fought him off. Why is this not enough? How can there be such disregard for a human being that viewers claim to like, that what we actually hear her say and what we actually see her do, is discarded in favor of what we think she might want?
2) It's not rape! How can you say that?
No one said it was. Rape is an assault by a person involving penetration with another person without that person's consent. No, this wasn't rape. What it was was assault, coercion, and boorish behavior. It was stated that the same dynamic is in play in both outcomes; a blatant disregard and a lack of respect for the wants of another human being.
3) My significant other and I have also have a very physical relationship and it's not a problem.
How nice for you both. Congratulations? And it's nice that if she were to express any dissatisfaction after the fact (only after, huh?), that you would take it under advisement. But that's more than we can say for Joo-won, isn't it? Ra-im said, "No." What happened next?
4) It's not real-life! It's just a drama. Chill out! Look at it in context.
Dramas do not exist in a vacuum. They're a product of a people, culture and language, a mirror of the norms from which they originate. We have in Javabeans someone who is fluent in both English and Korean, who is a Westerner of Korean descent, and who has an encyclopedic knowledge of K-drama and Korean society. In her words, "There’s a huge problem in Korea with sexual harassment and confusion about what constitutes consent — popular dramas romanticizing a man forcing himself on a woman (but he’s so cute! Of course he’d never really hurt her!) do nothing to help that." And it's not just Korea but the majority of the world. For those who say we need to look at it in context, please take your own advice. Look at it in the greater context, which is not what is inside your head. To attempt to excuse Joo-won's behavior on the basis of this being a drama is to divorce this drama from its origin -- a society that we have been told is riddled with gender inequality, and where women learn to associate coercion and abusive behavior with romance (because oppa didn't mean it!). It's not adorable. It's a problem.
5) Javabeans, I love Secret Garden and I'm so disappointed in your harsh words. I want to enjoy the drama and you have made me feel sour and bad.
I don't know where to begin with this one. What? Perspective, please. A woman has just taken a chance and has shared with thousands of readers worldwide how this scene made her feel. That's a brave thing to do. She has attempted to clarify her views even more by putting it in a large for us, and has even shared the horrible fact that several of her friends have been raped. And important thing is that she's ruining your precious drama? The irony is not lost on me that just Joo-won disregarded Ra-im's words and tried to shut her down in service to his own comfort, so are people trying to do to Javabeans. If you feel sour because someone called out coercion, imagine how sour you'd feel to be coerced.
I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can tackle right now. I'll just end on this note. I don't claim to speak for all women (some of the comments here make that quite clear), but I do know that I speak for many when I say that the greatest respect you can give me as a woman is to listen to what I say and grant me my autonomy. Forcing yourself on my body, then making a show of chanting for control is just adding insult to injury. Don't assume you know what I want.
I will tell you.
Thank you, JB.
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December 26, 2010 at 8:22 PM
Thank you.
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ni
December 26, 2010 at 8:26 PM
can i just say...thank you for articulating things i wanted to say but didn't know how.
well put :)
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December 27, 2010 at 2:54 AM
Agree 101% with what you wrote! Hope that clarified many issues here. So INSIGHTFUL!
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Eleven11
December 26, 2010 at 8:43 PM
Thank you! Of course it isn't rape - but it sets the premise that 'no' doesn't always mean 'no, stop, cease and desist!'.
Sure, in a RELATIONSHIP between to adults with understandings between them, these rules can be played with because it is done within a trusting context. This is not the same.
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AmbieH
December 26, 2010 at 9:05 PM
Dear JB, Lahlita et rest....
This has been a very interesting recap... I watched this episode without knowing a great deal of Korean .. hoping that my years of reading bodies would help me translate what words could not.... and I have come to this conclusion... this episode should needs to be watched with the next episode in order to achieve some sort of balance to certain scenes...
~ I HOPE NO ONE TAKES THIS WRONG AS THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE... IF ANYONE WANTS TO ARGUE MY POINT PLEASE UNDERSTAND (AGAIN) THAT MY EXPERIENCES HAVE COLOR MY WORLD DIFFERENTLY THAN YOURS...
In regards to that scene.. My breath was bated watching that scene like Java, with me murmuring "no Joo Won, no Joo Won, dont go any further".. and he didn't... but I didnt get that horrible I feel like I am going to throw up vibe that usually comes with scenes like these....
I don't think it matters rather we are watching a show that protrays a realistic relationship or not, I believe that the writers and the director did the show an injustice with how the that played out...
I have tried to think how would I have played that scene.. and I think that played it to the best of thier abilities.
Ha Ji Won acting didnt seem to make me/us afraid for Gil Ra Im.. It was me and I my past made me scared for her.... (I was raped multiple times and it wasnt done in the "normal" grab, attack, force ...)
but other part of me said had faith that Hyun-Bin wouldnt make me hate Joo Won..
& for me .. that part was right. I chose to watch the second one about 3 hours after and the uncomfortable part of episode 13 were cleared up for me.. did I suddenly learn fluent Korean? nope.. but the journey was a little clearer.. and sweeter too...
I am watching my favorite artist talk about the the road to her and her husband happiness... and I think she has it correct.. common sense isnt common.. so with that said I hope we see more moments like those in episode 14.
Thank you JB for your hardwork..
감사합니다!!!!
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Nars
December 26, 2010 at 9:43 PM
I feel like this should be copied and pasted on every comment that has one of these elements.
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girlfriday
December 26, 2010 at 10:15 PM
Lahlita,
You don't speak for all women, but damn, you really should.
I dunno what you do in that real world I hear so much about, but I certainly hope that you share your POV with young men and women, in education, in advocacy, because the world would be a better place for it.
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December 27, 2010 at 3:00 AM
Well said! Agree that Lahlita had the most insightful comments here. She should advocate for women's rights.
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ladida
December 27, 2010 at 7:04 AM
Totally agree! Lahlita lays everything out so well! I was actually starting to fell that perhaps I'd misread the scene and that my feeling uncomfortable was a problem, but she's cleared that right up! Now I'm wondering if the writer of this drama is female, and if she is, why would she write a scene like this?
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brookeeve
December 26, 2010 at 10:30 PM
I wanted to say something about your point #1.
I'm a badass girl. I can and have fought a number of times with boys. I've had my nose broken, my shoulder dislocated, and my leg broken. While teaching, I have broken up gang fights and girl fights. My skin has been broken, I have been bruised and beaten. And that's not even talking about the fights that I've lost.
Girls, no matter how badass you are, it is near impossible to win against the wimpiest of men in a fight. Men are stronger, they have better reflexes, they keep a more level head in a fight, and they have better reach. Granted, I have not had a lot of formal training, but even a girl who is a black belt in karate is going to have problems with a strong boy. Skills do not mean much in a fight, because fights are not choreographed and planned like they are on TV. Most times, a fight will only last three minutes at most, and all it takes is one little blow to the temple or the solar plexus or your gut or a knee cap and the fight is over 'cause the other party is unconscious or they can't breathe or they can't move.
Please don't assume that this girl could fight that boy. All it takes is one good punch or hit and the fight is over. Fighting with a boy is a 50/50 chance of success, no matter who you are.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 3:55 AM
Good point. I'm glad you mentioned that. Women who haven't been forcible restrained by a male don't really get just how scary and overpowering the other sex can be in those situations. Okay. I have to stop talking about this stuff for a minute.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 3:42 AM
Nice rebuttal. Very good. I liked your first post as well.
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Severine
December 27, 2010 at 8:51 AM
And coherent you were. Thank you so much for this post, Lahlita! I can't say how many times I've winced and cringed at "romantic" displays of force by men over women in dramas and many other forms of entertainment. As someone who comes from a very male-dominated "majority of the world" cultural background and has had to deal with gender inequality issues all her life, I couldn't agree more with what you've said.
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faye
December 27, 2010 at 9:31 AM
Agree completely. I've been very uncomfortable about the forced kiss and the bed scenes.
If the show's writer had wanted to build on the romantic (and sexual) tension, she should have found some other way to do it . Personally, I would have preferred if the 2 offending scenes had been written in such a way as to illustrate the conflict between Ra-im's growing attraction for JW and her perfectly natural desire to protect herself from all the stress that would come from choosing to date him.
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lei
December 27, 2010 at 10:21 AM
where is the Like button for comment 101?
thank you lahlita. agree with gf, you don't speak for all woment but you should.
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mastille
December 27, 2010 at 1:43 PM
Wow. These are good points. I've commented earlier that I didn't see anything wrong at first (although my eyebrows were raised when he tried to pick the lock, I thought the writers were trying to be a bit fanservice-y - ha! - but I still enjoyed it) and then I read this comment and others.
I guess I'll have to turn a blind eye to the 'wider connotations' of this to continue enjoying this drama. I guess that's what other viewers are sad about, because we turn to dramas to escape, to dream, to get entertained. Acknowledging that this scene sends the wrong message and is probably not as pure as we wanted it to be just makes things so upsetting. I think that's why so many people have made points 4 and 5. But your counterpoints to them are entirely right.
I see and understand both sides of the coin here, and I think both sides are entirely honest. I wonder if people would decide not to continue the drama because of that scene - because, besides ranting about it, what can you do about the issue? (What JB has done is great though - look at this discussion.) Write a letter to the writers?
I think people are getting upset because they feel guilty for enjoying that scene, justifying it, not thinking anything of it when they watched it. Not because they disagree with the issue.
I as a fan (currently) of the show would argue that people should finish it if they want to, and then look at the drama's take on the characters and the no-yes thing as a whole before setting their verdicts in stone. Because anything can happen from here. But for all those that have been turned off by it, I see and agree with your points and thank you for giving us your opinions.
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Crazymoonyfan
December 27, 2010 at 9:15 PM
YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lahlita
December 28, 2010 at 6:06 AM
Thanks for the comments, everyone. This is a great community. Even some posts that express different opinions are well-written, respectful and mature (# 100 Sukispop, you rock!).
@Severine, keep fighting the good fight, sister. I too grew up in a male-dominated society, a second-class citizen in a place where one ran into polygamy, barely pubescent child brides, and women being bartered for animals. Facking animals! And the animals had more respect. It smacks of privilege of sit back and romanticize coercion, and to attack those who express discomfort with it. But the world is changing, slowly but surely. I am heartened by the comments of men such as Crebold who understand that everyone, man or woman, is deserving of the same rights, right due to everyone as human beings. We'll get there!
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102 crazy
December 26, 2010 at 7:53 PM
The bed scene didn't bother me as much as the wrist grabs and forceful kisses in the earlier episodes... it's just makes me feel pretty weird about the RI and JW's relationship... is it healthy when he seems to be forcing her to be with him?
Usually, I feel a deep attraction to the main male character, but not this time. It's more like a grudging tolerance because he's Binnie.
But yeah, Secret Garden is a good drama. I can't wait for ep 14! If RI becomes open about her feelings and starts asserting her love more, I think I'll like the drama more.
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103 Anonymous
December 26, 2010 at 8:05 PM
First thanks for your wonderful recap. I have watched the Chinese subs (they are super fast!) but I always enjoy your recaps for your insights and commentary on the drama.
I am among those who didn't like the bed scene and the forced kissing scene. Another scene I don't like is the part where they were on the mountain where JW keep touching R. I know it's meant to be cute and all but I couldn't help thinking that it's sexual harassment of a sort. In fact JW has been acting in increasing levels of inappropriate ways since episode 1. Yet somehow I still enjoy this drama.
It's fortunate that HB and HJW are really good actors and they have this sizzling, terrific chemistry together because otherwise I will probably have dropped this drama a few episodes ago. Like girlfriday mentioned in her previous review, I am waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel, for JW to become a better person, drop his stupid mermaid theory and really really fight for their relationship. I don't want R to change, coz I love her character so much, love her spirit and her drive and passion for her work. I hope she retains these aspects of her character even as she tries to adapt to JW's life. But JW better change, otherwise I just see a miserable future for you and R together.
Bed scene aside, I think this is a really solid episode. On the surface they seem to be recycling the same class theme but things are being set in motion for the plot to move forward. And there are many things I like about this episode.
1) We get to see R's point for view for once (Finally!). Get to see clearly that she is indeed attracted to JW and also her insecurities and why she hesitant about entering into a relationship with JW. I adore R so I really enjoy these insights into her character.
2) Many tender moments between JW and R, like the monologue at the beginning and the stroll together etc, which is welcome after all their bickering. The way they gaze at each other quietly just kills me.
3) R cried openly three times in this episode! For a girl who refuses to cry (she always hold back her tears no matter how much JW hurt her), I think it's telling. She has reached breaking point and finally forced to confront her own feelings.
4) JW confronting her mother over R. I like that he is making an effort to defend her in front of his mother and openly acknowledge that he loves her. And even though I detest the old lady, she is indeed right about JW. The biggest obstacle to their relationship is not class or social status but JW himself.
5) R going to see JW at the party at the end. Probably the second time that she takes the initiative. It's decision time and even though I have no doubt about her answer, it's nice to see her making the move for once instead of remaining passive all the time.
6) I am somehow relieved that Ah-young seems to have gotten over her crush over JW. I suppose her thinking that JW is secretly in love with her is meant to be funny but I find this love line totally unnecessary and annoying. I kind of like her character before for being such a funny friend of R and she is cute with the secretary too, but the part with JW makes her character seems materialistic and vain. Glad that at moments where it counts, AY is there for R. I like her again.
7) Oska is daebak in this episode! For a while there the drama keeps teasing us with romantic developments between him and R but I am glad they go that route. I find his scenes with R cute and I laugh at their cheesy exchanges but despite this I can't sense any romantic vibes between them. Their relationship has developed into a more friendship/brother-sister mode which I like. I love how Oska tries to protect R from JW's mother and how he plays fairy godfather to R at the end. Awwwwww
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Anonymous
December 26, 2010 at 8:21 PM
Sorry at no 7 I mistyped "I am glad they go that route", I actually meant to say I am glad that Oska and R didn't go that (romantic) route.
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104 crappycaller
December 26, 2010 at 8:13 PM
it's a cute feel good drama ... the 'forced to bed' scene was good to express the chemistry of the two main characters .. Gil Raim is saying 'no' but deep inside her she is saying 'yes'. Remember, she already have feelings for Jo Woon.... ^^
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Eleven11
December 26, 2010 at 8:48 PM
People have been raped by others they have had feelings for before. 'No' should always mean 'No' (unless both parties have reached an understanding, ie BDSM). Even people in relationships should respect their partners' boundaries.
I'm not saying this was rape or even near it. I'm just saying that the way this behaviour was framed sets a bad premise.
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105 lolew
December 26, 2010 at 8:21 PM
i actually think that the bed scene was important in a sense. I think it plays up the Ra Im's internal conflict, of how she likes him but she pushes him away, because of all the stupid stuff he does and how insane he is, and then again how she does like him in spite of that. so all that conflict plays out and of course we feel it with her because we want to hate it and we want to like it and that just sucks to be in the middle.
also we pretty much know that Ra Im could kick his butt if she wanted to. So i'm not sure if i'm supposed to read this as character inconsistency or her indecisiveness over how she feels.
at any rate, I loved this episode and i thought her dress was cool - it still kept her badass factor, which I liked - no pink frilly laces for Ra Im
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106 lkhb
December 26, 2010 at 8:23 PM
when i read this post & peoples responses regarding the bed scene, i was surprised...
am i the only one that thought it was totally cute ? plus i was totally jealous. lol. does that make me some kind of rape fan ?
on a side note, i wonder if binnies girlfriend ever gets mad about the physical scenes..
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DRAMADDICT4ever
December 26, 2010 at 8:35 PM
No it doesn't, because I also like that scene very much, and I am a girl.
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Maria
December 26, 2010 at 9:09 PM
I too enjoyed that scene. and it was cute. one thing we should not forget that he will never do anything intentionaly to hurt her. he loves her. calling that scene a rape is just too much absurd.
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A
December 26, 2010 at 10:55 PM
Hmm.. I haven't watched Worlds Within (if that's what it's called) but if i remember correctly Binnie & Song Hye Kyo (his gf) won the couple award for their chemistry i believe?
I wonder how their chemistry compares with HJW and Binnie... maybe i should watch it and see
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We Yumi
December 27, 2010 at 7:56 AM
I saw the World Within/ the World They Live In
The chemistry between the lead was not as exciting.
I think Hyun Bin has better chemistry with his lead in Secret Garden and Kim Sam Soon.
For some reason, often when real life lovers work together on screen they chemistry often fall flat.
I heard that wasn't the case with Mr&Mrs Smith, but I never saw that--and Jolie-Pitt weren't a couple then-theoretically.
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107 Secret Garden Lover
December 26, 2010 at 8:25 PM
You look at it from an American Point of view, it looks like rape but then this is not an American Drama and we all know there is a very thin line between what is considered Passionate love in Asian dramas and Obsessive love in Western Shows, Dramas etcetera...
On that Note... I LOVE THIS SHOW AND I FIND NOTHING ABOUT IT RAPE ISHHH... Only after I read drama beans do i go aaah that was kinda sorta rape like..eeeek
Thanks for the Moral Compass and Great Review
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108 tamtam
December 26, 2010 at 8:26 PM
I needed a light-hearted break from Joseon X-Files so turned my attentions to this episode. But there were some nuances that I didn't catch so I always appreciate your recaps since they're supplements to clear any translated confusion. I love your insights on Ze Mother, we see the apple did not fall far from the tree. The highlight in this episode was Oska and Seul finally clearing some misunderstanding between them. That I'm caring this much about them as much as the leads, I must say, it's a first for me in a romantic drama.
I watched that scene in Chinese sub and it's basically the same translation for that scene. Except they interpreted JW's last line as " If you don't shut up, I'll really pounce you." And Ra-Im's tone was one of exasperation instead of distress. Yes, taken out of context and reading it in plain words like this can seem alarming. I do see your point, but I'm just not as alarmed by this because Ra Im wasn't acting like she's in danger.
I already have my reservations about Joo-woo's courting "strategy", so this particular scene didn't change my view on him...
That doesn't mean I'd condone this behavior in real life. Nor would viewers of the show, which I think was your main concern. I think viewers are smarter than you give them credit for. I agree there are still sexiest views especially in the older population, but those who already think that behavior is acceptable aren't likely going to change. I don't think SG is reinforcing those views just by this scene. If we're going to start watching the show with tainted glasses like that, then perhaps the whole premise of the drama, the rich man courting poor woman by force, should be reconsidered in the first place.
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109 jktdrama
December 26, 2010 at 8:32 PM
The real crime here isn’t about the so-called insinuated rape “bed scene,” but rather about those who have recklessly tied a terrible act like “rape” to the “bed scene!”
For the life of me, even after re-watching the “bed scene” again and again, I JUST DON’T SEE THE ARGUMENT about a so-called insinuated or attempted rape, etc.; It simply isn’t there!
BUT at the end of the day it's THIS OR THAT! Can we move on now? :)
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jktdrama
December 26, 2010 at 8:34 PM
And yes! I am WOMAN; so hear me ROAR! ;)
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110 grasya
December 26, 2010 at 8:34 PM
I didn't find the "bed scene" offensive. It's realistic. Maybe Joo Won was confident enough to "force" his way inside the bedroom and on the bed because he knows Ra Im would also consent to it. I mean with Ra Im's training as stunt woman, she could have easily shoved him out the room and off the bed. So I'm thinking, she wanted it too. At any rate, this is just a drama, so let's all just chill [because seriously, if some girl didn't want that done to her, she would have fought with all her might to stop it ---and Ra Im did not].
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111 JohnC
December 26, 2010 at 8:35 PM
You are so on the money JB.
What are they going to do to redeem this guy? I'm starting to dislike him and I don't really see that much affection coming from her.
On a lighter note ........when she walked into the party I don't see why the whole room didn't fall about laughing.
That was the "hair" mistake of the year. They actually made her look bad.....and that's hard to do with a face like that.
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112 Eleven11
December 26, 2010 at 8:37 PM
THIS is one of the reasons I have a secret (or notsomuch) girlcrush on Girlfriday and Javabeans - they call their dramas on the shit other people might not. Scenes like the one above, where the woman is physically subdued by the man, happen all the time (a lesser[?] reincarnation is the dreaded wrist-grab) in so many forms of pop culture, and I hate it when I point it out to my friends and get ignored or whatever. This stuff MATTERS.
That said, I'm not going to go into why I think scenes like this are harmful/wrong, because there are 3 pages of comments above me that have probably done an accurate job, and I'm halfway through my second martini, but THANK YOU so much Javabeans. You are the bestest. For realsies.
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Eleven11
December 26, 2010 at 8:59 PM
Actually, there seems to be a lot of people who don't get why some people think this was bad - so I will change my drunken mind and say:
This scene is acting upon the premise that it is okay for someone to restrain another person against all indication that they don't like what is happening, as long as they finally give in/'grow to like it'.
This is a defense commonly used by rapists.
No, Joo-Won was not intending to rape or assault her. Yes, it was arguably a way of showing Ha-Rim's emotional state regarding Joo-Won (she pulls away despite her feelings to the contrary).
But, neither of those things excuse the positive showing of a scenario which could just as easily happen in real life, except where the woman (or other person in Ha-Rim's position) does not consent 'underneath it all'. If 'no' plus physical resistance isn't the way to tell someone you are not comfortable with a situation, what the hell is?
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113 DRAMADDICT4ever
December 26, 2010 at 8:39 PM
CAN WE PLEASE MOVE ON, AND STOP COMMENTING ON THE RAPE SCENE,OH SORRY "BED SCENE"?
SERIOUSLY,THEY WERE SO MANY GOOD MOMENTS ON THIS EPISODE,BUT NO ONE IS COMMENTING ABOUT IT,WHICH IS MAKING ME REALLY SAAAAAD!!!!!
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A
December 26, 2010 at 11:02 PM
Okay then! Let me launch into my hopefully short commentary!
I LOVED this episode! Bed-scene and all!
I was fangirling even before i watched it
From my POV i thought this episode really picked up the pace and that there was actually movement from the beginning of the ep compared with the end.
I actually sort of felt that the past 3 or so episodes were SLOW because there was not much of shift from beginning to end.
I do have to agree that it has been getting a tad tedious with the conflict between JWM and 'them'. it honestly hasn't seemed like JWM has done anything but spy on the two of them then call them in for a meeting and spit threats.
The ONE redeeming quality of mom is that because she is JW's mom she does seem to know him quite well.
His fight with not with her but himself.
All his life he's lived with a 'Hell with love' attitude and even in the beginning of this drama, while he's on the date with Seul (for the first time) he calls her out on her foolish belief in love.
Thus we can REALLY see the CHANGE he's had.
He's finally confronted with his feelings and the beliefs that he's had for his entire life.
Can't wait for the upcoming episodes!
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Eleven11
December 28, 2010 at 6:20 AM
YELLING ALWAYS MAKES THINGS BETTERRRRR!!!1
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114 marinai
December 26, 2010 at 8:43 PM
Ra Im is a stunt woman she could have killed JW right away on the couch if she wanted to...I saw this scene just like a game between two people in love trying to get skinship "huggin" while RaIm wants it but not to be the liltle mermaid and Jw is acknoledging her feelings for him! If he had kissed her, it would not have been the same! They just hugged !
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115 woahnow
December 26, 2010 at 8:51 PM
this drama actually makes me like the second leads a little. The director never does much but brood, but in this episode the pulling away of Joo Won thing was funny. and I suppose, based on the end of ep 14, that he's going to actually get involved now... As for Oska, I'm surprised about how much I like him. The whole oppa idol guy set up is hilarious considering his age and all. And the thing with Seul is just exasperating because Oska is trying even though he's such a flawed person. He still wants to be nice to her, after what she had done, I would have just tried to let it all go... trying to get married to his cousin? come on.. but he comes in with the chestnut thing and trying to be good to her, and you can really sympathize with this guy. Plus he treats Ra Im well, and is some common sense to Joo Won.... this guy is great
oh and would have loved to see another secretary kim freakout this episode... hahahaha that was hilarious
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ar_arguably romantic
December 26, 2010 at 9:29 PM
i have a soft spot for Seul, despite the huge chip on her shoulder.
I suspect that the director Jong Soo may be warming up a bit to Joo-won. After Joo-won squeezed his way between them (and it was so obvious to both RI and JS that JW wasn't just merely moving in his sleep), the director let him be and didn't try to remove him from Ra-Im again.
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116 lifehappens
December 26, 2010 at 8:51 PM
jb...i feel like you're just nitpicking everything in the drama and you always expect/find the worst in it...but im really surprised how the forced kiss scene (where JW actually grabbed RI's head and immobilized her) and kissed her despite her protests wasn't really brought to light. that scene disturbed me a lot more since he was throwing his strength around and then humiliated her in a more sexual way than when he just held her in bed and didnt try anything really sexual with her... but yeah i did cringe during the bed scene but i thought previous scenes were worse
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117 scarymonster
December 26, 2010 at 8:51 PM
First of all I agree that no means no.
I think that both characters are confusing. Ra-im is supposed to be more on the tough side right? In a lot of scenes the girl(typical female lead) hardly ever stand her ground and says no. I was looking forward to the Ra-im character because I thought maybe she would actually do that. Yet when ever Joo-won is around she doesn't seem to be more straight forward about Joo-won leaving her alone. In real life we would be reporting them to the police. Yes I get it, it's a drama and they are starting to love each other, but being uncomfortable about the bed scene means we will start getting to one of the points why people enjoy watching shows that have this kind of character. Where the male lead is rude, obnoxious, never listens when the girl says no. Eventually in the drama the male lead starts making a turn around right? Where is the apology for being a jerk?
This is all in my opinion. BTW
Also what a awkward first post for me. heh
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118 Ladymoonstone143
December 26, 2010 at 9:06 PM
Thanks Javabeans for the recap...
I love Secret Garden and I am positive that Ra-im and Jiwoon will be in my unforgettable lists of kdrama characters.
I am in for the funny scenes and the romantic aspect of the story and doesn't feel the need to notice minuscule details in the story and analyzed it. For me, there is so much chemistry between Raim and Jiwoon that I am just so eager to watch the scenes they are together. Jiwoon might be an arrogant ass but his antics just to get Raim's attention is hilarious. Jiwoon is like a male version of Hani because even if Raim is not interested on him at first, he never gave up and came up with the craziest antics in kdramaland just to see/be with her.
This is a fantasy drama which I will watch till the end, no matter how the story develops. I might rant and rave after it is over but am positive that I will re-watch SG a few more times just for the cutie scenes (push up scenes, the milk mustache kiss and many others...)
I can't wait for the weekend to be here again...lol
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119 haiyuu
December 26, 2010 at 9:20 PM
De-lurking!
Like you JB, I felt uncomfortable watching the scene unfold and completely understand where you're coming from.
Although I found the scene unsettling, I also feel like I might be willing to cut JW some slack given "dramaland circumstances" plus JW's personal appeal. I hate the fact that on some level emotion trumps my rationality - I should outright hate this scene. But I don't. That, for me, is where the problem inherently lies.
(Perhaps I should have chosen a more pleasant episode to de-lurk in. lol)
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120 Daniela
December 26, 2010 at 9:24 PM
First, Thank you for the recap!. Second, thank you for your rant! When i watched the scene and he throws her on the bed i think "Easy, boy, that was harsh" But i melted when they hugged and looked at each other. The hug AT THE END is cute but how they get there is not that good.
I wont go deep with what i think because its like a combination of some comments and it will be repetitive. I think some people misunderstand your rant(sorry to those people if i am the one misunderstanding their posts), but thanks again for making it. Thats why i like your recaps (and gf´s), i can see another point (i also read all the posts so is even richer).
And your recap have another parts!. I must say, i want a t-shirt whit the legend "Angstmaker Extraordinaire™." And the sound sound Joo-won made when he was against ra-im´s back is just too cute.
On superficial things: I LOVE seul´s dress: the color,the style. Also the necklace and the hair. the way they dress joo-won is weird but great (i have a thing for that shirts that buttoned to the neck since i watched you´re beautiful) i want one of those things that are vest-but-no (i think is a merely a sweter).Ra-Im look pretty (she has the legs for that dress) i dont really like the dress but she looks good.
I dont let comments on the 24 or 25. Its very late but, Merry Christmas!
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ar_arguably romantic
December 26, 2010 at 9:45 PM
i have to admit that Oska and Seul were the better dressed couple. I thought Joo-won's shirt looks more Sunday-best than Christmas party and while Ra-Im is rocking her dress, I don't particularly like it. Neither did i like the hair and earrings.
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121 DB's fan
December 26, 2010 at 9:26 PM
This is the first time i felt very sad after reading the closing comments by javabeans and more disappointed after the responses. How can you just ignore the whole episode and talk only about one scene?
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122 jyyjc
December 26, 2010 at 9:29 PM
wow i never thought about that when i saw the bed scene. i just thought, for a tough stuntwoman ra-im doesn't have any sort of maneuvers to free herself from his grip?
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123 d-addict
December 26, 2010 at 9:37 PM
i (miraculously) wasn't too bothered by the bed scene because in the initial moments, Joo won seemed too child like (for me). He was pestering Ra im to let him stay in the room with her (like a 12 yr old). When he got too physical pushing her back to the bed when she tried to get up, the first thought that popped to my mind was that Joo won simply forgot his own size/strength. Gah. I know Ra im could take on opponents way bigger than her but there are moments between them (in this series) that really emphasize just how helpless she could be if Joo won pressed his suit. I felt okay with the bed scene because...while he got too physical forcing her to stay in bed with him, I was sure (I trust JW's character) he had no other nefarious plans for the evening. Am I making sense?
What I was bothered about was Ra im's sunbae just 'leaving' her behind with him as a show of support for JW. He wasn't a bit concerned for Ra im's safety? Trusting JW and all that, but Ra im's sunbae didn't have the same knowledge of JW's character that Ra im does.
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124 Nars
December 26, 2010 at 9:48 PM
Wow, it's pretty frustrating reading the comments attacking javabeans. UH HELLO, this is her blog -so don't read it if you can't stand critical and intelligent analysis of a show.
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Flamebait
December 27, 2010 at 12:01 PM
Wow, you can't attack bloggers on their blogsite! Is there a written law I'm not aware of?
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Nars
December 28, 2010 at 12:05 PM
Thanks for warning me with your name! "Flamebait" seems very apt. :D
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125 yui
December 26, 2010 at 9:49 PM
i have nothing to say but THANK U JB..*speechless how come u could read my mind* LoLL...^^
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126 kaigou
December 26, 2010 at 9:57 PM
Thank you for voicing what's been on my mind since catching up to the last episode -- that I've really started to wonder if there's no word in Korean for "restraining order". I mean, there's "ridiculous behavior for the sake of romantic-comedy" (which almost always contains behaviors that would definitely get you a restraining order), and then there's... just way beyond the pale. When you look at the entire series overall, the bed scene is within the pale of what the drama has already outlined as "appropriate behavior"... so I shouldn't be so surprised.
I mean: JW has barged into RI's workplace, he's excoriated her in public, he's tagged along on her jobs and put her work at risk, and that's not even counting the wrist-grabs... hell, just the "I'm crazy and it's your fault" entitlement alone is enough to make any sane woman want a judge ordering a five-hundred-foot perimeter.
It took this recap and re-considering ep12 to realize what gets me the most: it's that Hyun-bin is doing his best to make palatable a role that's, frankly, repugnant. And what makes it repugnant is that the rest of the cast is complicit. The sunbae at the action school who invites JW along, for instance, and keeps JW in the loop on what RI's up to. Even Joon-soo is complicit, in that he's never laid down the line and thrown JW out for interfering with RI's work. This *is* supposed to be her job, right? Why stand by and do nothing when someone barges into her workplace and harasses her and disrupts everyone else's training? ...and any of the rest of the cast who see JW as a worthwhile catch, or don't call him on his crap, are complicit.
I was starting to root for Oska + RI, because Oska's turning out to be one of the only decent characters. At least he draws a line with JW... but then -- after all this stalking, harassing, controlling, repugnant behavior from JW -- RI turns around and *encourages* him. Silently, but still, it was enough for me. I was starting to hate him, and now I can't respect her for not having enough respect for herself to kick him to the curb.
Strangely, if I do keep watching, it'll be for Seul and Oska, and nothing else. Seul may be a superficial snake, but she's honest about her superficiality and (at least so far) she doesn't settle for not being respected. She certainly wouldn't put up with JW's antics if she were RI, from what I've seen. After 12 episodes I'm seeing no light of possible self-respect on RI's behalf to demand common decency, and I've had enough.
Though I'll probably keep reading the recaps just because your commentaries always make me think. Thank you!
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127 Memei
December 26, 2010 at 10:02 PM
JBeans lighten up, it's Hyun Bin...yikiiiiii. You know you like it. Hahahaha.
On a serious note, the Seul-Oska loveline is nice as well. There never was a love triangle here and its nice. Jong-soo was never a competition as well, he's almost father-like to Ra Im. Almost all of the dramas I've watched use the love quadrangle "angle" so seeing that this drama focus on the couple's hotheaded dating ritual is actually a breath of fresh air at least to me.
And when will the body switch actually make sense? I mean, come on, there never was a point to it really. it was mainly for entertainment. seeing hyun bin scream and put on a bra is getting old now.
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128 diadda
December 26, 2010 at 10:02 PM
I seriously debated posting a comment on this for 2 reasons.
1. Dramabeans(java) has always frowned on forced sexual situations. Nothing I say or do is going to change that, nor would I want to.
2. So many opinions and I still have yet to agree with any of them fully.
In the end here I am. For those assaulted in the past or know someone assaulted. I hold my hand up as one of the many to add to that group. As someone who has been in a real life situation that did scar me at a very young age, I am not offended by this bed scene any more than I am by the rest of this show or the rest of kdramas out there.
Hyun Bin's character is a spoiled rich brat that has been forcing himself on his female lead from the beginning. Nothing has changed. He has forced kisses and hugs and molested this girl from day one! He has stalked her apartment, her work and been overly aggressive no matter how many times she hits him back or calls him names. The fact that he finally forcibly threatens her with rape to get her to snuggle doesn't surprise me in the least. It is in this character to do it. It was part of who he is and makes sense for the story. If you have a problem with the character. Then you should have a problem with ALL of his actions so far. Just because he does this on a bed doesn't make molesting her body, forcing kisses and imposing hugs any better. I honestly felt the scene with him coming down the mountain and groping her or the forced kiss that oska interrupted to be the only ones that crossed my line of of comfort, but this bed thing was par for the course and did not phase me in the slightest.
The rest of kdramas are no better. And honestly I don't see the reason anyone who watches them and enjoys them is up in a hissy about this one scene. Every rich male lead(and there are plenty) has a scene where he has to force himself on the spunky girl that never talked to him that way. Most notable that everyone should be familiar with is BOF. That kiss was disturbing in every flipping language it has been in.
If you don't like these types of characters stop watching and buying into the aggressors. Stop making them popular. Stop enjoying them so much you buy the DVD box set and the writers will get the hint.
As for the hatred being bandied about on who is right of wrong in this. You come to it with your own beliefs and moral issues. I don't judge and neither should you.
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greatreply
December 27, 2010 at 12:06 AM
Boy i couldn't have said it better than this exactly why is anyone who watches these type of dramas having a over reaction from this scene? I agree instead of recapping and over analyzing them just stop watching them altogether clearly you can't get any type of enjoyment from them if want to always label them as forced sexual interactions between the sexes. I also agree about the DVD and making these shows popular.
My two cents isn't the writer for this drama a woman? Not saying she has issues but maybe it's what she has to write this drama to get work or maybe it's from her perspective of what she perceives as romance? Don't know if that's what she is thinking but i really don't see how this scene has gotten some to compare it to forced rape?
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diadda
December 27, 2010 at 12:30 AM
To me Que Sera Sera 9 was a forced scene! It fit the story and it worked in the plot and was ok with me because of that, but once again we have a male forcing his way into a woman's room and imposing himself on her.
I love Javabeans and defend her right to change her mind and express her opinion.
That being said did you change your mind on this scene java?
http://www.dramabeans.com/2007/04/que-sera-sera-the-big-scene/
http://www.dramabeans.com/2007/04/que-sera-sera-episode-9/
Also I agreed with your comments on this one much more, than your take on SG.
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notoriousnoona
December 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM
Couldn't agree more.
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arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 3:52 AM
Well said. I'm in the same boat as you. I don't get how people have JUST realized Joo Won's depravity. I also don't get the idiots who still don't get his depravity. Then again, people probably don't understand how anyone can like the character (I don't yet just because he hasn't redeemed himself but I can see it coming) while still understanding what a horrible guy he is.
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Jane
December 27, 2010 at 5:56 AM
Well, not quite true. Lee Jin Soo never forced himself on any woman (although he did lock one up in a suitcase).
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diadda
December 27, 2010 at 6:30 AM
He didn't have to be. The secondary male lead was smarmy enough for both of them :)
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Jane
December 27, 2010 at 8:37 AM
But in all fairness, Joo Won is actually worse than Ji Won. Of course, Joo Won is the lead and we know the characters will end up together so it's "different" but Joo Won is way more persistent and stalkerish than Ji Won, plus at least Ji Won was never physical with her.
Some people like me have had problem with Joo Won right from the very beginning. And I think that's kind of part of the discussion here. Why is this okay? Why do we accept this kind of behavior? Why do we call this romance?
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129 dgirl
December 26, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Ohhh c'mon!!! Can we stop discuss about the bed scene.... Have already sick of of it
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130 brookeeve
December 26, 2010 at 10:15 PM
To all of the ADHD kids out there who keep sayin' STOP TALKING ABOUT THE BED SCENE: We are grown ups. There are many different opinions, and some of us are working out issues and trying to define our own morality through this discourse. If you have a problem with it, go to the other sparkly happy sites that are covering this episode in comfortable shallowness. Some of these things need sayin', and this site is known for deeper thought than the other ones. If you want to talk about something else, post it. Right now, the grown-ups are talkin' about some heavy issues and if you don't like it, go sit at the kid's table and talk about the happy stuff in this episode.
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diadda
December 26, 2010 at 10:21 PM
:)
Amen sister!
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DRAMADDICT4ever
December 26, 2010 at 11:15 PM
@brookeeve wow!so when someone does not agree with what you have to rant over and over again,we automatically become kids in your eyes?
I agree with what dgirl said,because I am sick of hearing the same thing over and over and over and over again!!!!
but I guess all I have to do is just stop reading or making any post,because obviously we are not getting anywhere.
And If you feel you are a grown up,you should act like one and respect others peoples view,don't even bother replying me back because I am so out of here!!!
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brookeeve
December 26, 2010 at 11:38 PM
Could you please capitalize the first word in every sentence? Also, I would appreciate a space after your periods, commas, and exclamation points. Also, you don't need to start a new paragraph for every sentence.
Thanks!
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Memei
December 26, 2010 at 11:40 PM
Geez.
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brookeeve
December 26, 2010 at 11:47 PM
And in one moment of sobriety: all of the reasons for my fighting issues become abundantly clear...
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geanna
December 27, 2010 at 1:13 AM
childish.
DRAMADDICT4ever
December 27, 2010 at 8:03 AM
@ brookeeve,( I hope you read my reply), First I would like to apologize for my rant yesterday, I just felt a little offended and took it personal when you call me a ADHD kid (lol. I don't even know what that means), because I feel I am not a kid but at the same time I acted like one with my previous repply.
Yesterday I was furious reading all the comments about the "bed scene", that got to a point that got sick of hearing the same discusion over and over again. Maybe I am just loving the drama so much that all I want is to hear positive comments, but that is just my wishfull thinking.
I should not be saying this, but I was actually a rape victim and I was only 9 years old, so I know the feeling of fear,treat and pain someone goes through in those situations, because it not only affects you physically,but also mentally for the REST of your life. I have a 5 year old daughter and I panic every single day with the thought that something like this could ever happen to her, that is why I am so over protective with her, because over my dead body will I let that happen.
I do comdemne those bastards that abuse their power to harm another human being, but still I don't understand how can some people compare such a harmless scene to a rape scene? or to even imply that the scene itself show a possitive scenario towards a rape!!! I seriously did not expected this type of response from this particular episode which I thought it was AMAZING!!!
Again I apologize for my behavior yesterday, because all I want is peace and prosperity among us. And please understand that English is my second language and I am horrible with gramma, so I do make mistakes with periods, commas and exclamation points (^^).
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brookeeve
December 27, 2010 at 9:38 AM
I read your reply.
You'll notice I really have yet to say anything about the bed scene other than 'let people talk about it.' I haven't put forth one opinion on it because I am still formulating my own thoughts. I was never raped as a kid, but rape isn't the only abuse people go through. There is a reason that I fight all the time, but it makes me start shaking every time I start to talk about it so you won't hear about that today.
I got upset because Dramabeans is a family. I know the stories of over half of the women and men who post here. I got upset because there are people making comments that are hurting the feelings of my family, and then telling them that they can't talk about a traumatic period in their life because people are sick of it. I will fight anyone who tries to hurt my family, and if that means that I hurt the feelings of people that I have never seen before it's no skin off my teeth. And how I reacted on this post is exactly how I react in real life when someone tries to make fun of my family... and when you come from as multi-cultural a family as mine, a family that has been through the foster system in America and survived semi-healthy, that happens frequently.
Normally, I could care less about grammar. It is just a weakness that I exploited so that you would shut up. It worked last night, so I was happy. Now I feel guilty that English is your second language and I made fun of you, because English is my second language, too. I am sorry for making fun of your language skills.
Eleven11
December 28, 2010 at 6:12 AM
Brookeeve: I really respect some of the things you post, and this is one of them. It's like there are two factions of people on here: one looking for serious-honest-to-goodness-borderline-academic discourse on themes or issues brought up in the episodes, and another who just want to talk about how fun the episode was. Normally I would have no problem with this, but the fact that people are actually getting ANGRY that others want to have serious discussions about ideas and interpretations of this show is just ridiculous.
We aren't trying to hate on the show, or even detract from it. We just want to talk about it in a way that is interesting and stimulating and for some, very personally relevant.
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131 melissa
December 26, 2010 at 10:18 PM
This is the best episode for me. So sad that instead of focusing on the whole episode itself itself, so many are commenting to one single bed scene.
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132 :)
December 26, 2010 at 10:19 PM
I actually thought the bed scene was cute lol^^just look at the way they were mesmerized by eachother.
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133 Jung In
December 26, 2010 at 10:26 PM
Hello everybody. I am Jung In. I the No.2 guy in Mary Stay Outa All Nighter. My English not so gooder. Pls forgive.
I wanter to say I liker Mae Ri. She the No.1 girl in the show. I so shy so I never holder her tighter like Joo Won hyung. Hugger her in beder is more more shyer. Oh! Oh! My face it is so reder now! Oh! Oh!
I liker Mae Ri so I
1. piggybacker her.
2. kisser her in the rainer.
3. backerhugger her.
4. saver her and roller down hill (I maybe killer myself in ep 15)
I honourable maner. Am one-woman maner. Like Joo Won hyung. He also gooder maner. Not liker long-haired duder who Mae Ri liker.
Don't be angry with Joo Won hyung. You maker me sader. He my hyung.
My English is not so gooder. Pls forgive. Bye bye.
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Ra Im
December 26, 2010 at 10:57 PM
You should.... (10-minute pause) shut your mouth.
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A
December 26, 2010 at 11:06 PM
keke..
if you've seen ep 14 already
SPOILER ALERT!!!!*
she actually says in very bad engrish
You should shut the mouth.
SPOILER ENDED*
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Jung In
December 27, 2010 at 12:26 AM
Rung In ssi, I bow to you.
You bader girl. You teller me shuttter my mouth. I corrector your English. Is SHUTTER not SHUT.
I no wanter to piggybacker you. I no wanter to kisser you in the rainer. I no wanter to backerhugger you. I only piggybacker,kisser and backerhuggy Mae Ri. She gooder girl. She kinda girl. Is why I one-woman maner. You switcher body become maner. I no liker you.
Maybe I dieee in ep 15. They maker me roller roller down the hiller. Maybe I breaker my necker!!!! Then you still teller me shutter my mouth. You bader bader girl! You maker me so so sader.
I gonna teller my hyung you bader girl. Then he no hugger you tighter tighter in bed. He juster kicker you POOOSH! outa the bed! Then you roller down the bed. You breaker your necker like me. HA HA HA I sader but you maker me laugher. Is gooder I laugher. I HA HA HA is means I laugher. I bow to you.
Can you tell hyung I wanter to switcher body with him? Then he becomer Jung In and Jung In becomer hyung. Hyung he smarter guy he wear cast around necker. Then he wearer sparkly tracksuit and zipper zipper up up to the necker then he roller down the hiller he no dieee. I becomer hyung but I no liker you. I kicker you outa my lifer. Bye bye.
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Joo Won
December 27, 2010 at 12:29 AM
YOU RAVING LUNATIC YOU STILL HERE????!!!!! WAT THE @#%$@&*
SECURITYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!
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Jung In
December 27, 2010 at 12:58 AM
Hyung, it is me, Jung In. I am sader.
Ra Im ssi she bader bader girl. She teller me shutter up my mouth. I so so sader. She no gooder for you. If I no dieee in ep 15, I finda you nicer kinda girl. She always scolder you. She maker you sader. Hyung you sader, I more sadeder.
Hyung, pls can helper me? They gonna kill me tonight. They maker me roller down the hiller. I think 2 ways hyung can helper:
1. hyung lender me your tracksuit. Is so sparkly when roller down the hiller can see and caller 911 straightway.
2. hyung, can pls bringer me to secret garden? Can switcher body with hyung. Hyung come to crazy Mary show. I go Secret Garden. I be hyung. Hyung be me.
Hyung, I got 2 problems if go to Secret Garden.
1. I so shy. So many girls in Secret Garden. Meanser I gotta walker walker faster faster so no looker at girls. My face it turner reda reda if girls talker to me. Oh! Oh! Oh!
2. I don't liker Ra Im ssi. Ra Im ssi she don't liker me.
How? How? How?
Bye bye, hyung. If you no answer, means bye bye forever.
Jung In
December 27, 2010 at 12:34 AM
I meaner *Ra Im ssi. Pls forgive. Is cos I liker Mae Ri. I forgeter your namer.
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Joo Won
December 27, 2010 at 1:03 AM
Bye bye dickhead *waves*
arielifeoma
December 27, 2010 at 4:02 AM
OmG! The entire 133 thread is so wrong but so funny. I need help now. Thanks for the laughs.
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134 Joo Won
December 26, 2010 at 10:30 PM
Stop defending me you wimp! Go back to your Mary show! What are you doing here anyways????
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DRAMADDICT4ever
December 26, 2010 at 10:36 PM
hahhaha,finaly a funny moment tonight!!!!
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Okie Dokie
December 27, 2010 at 10:52 AM
ahahah LOL! Hilarious exchange!
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135 ee
December 26, 2010 at 10:35 PM
ahhh....thanks for the recap...i already watch episode 14.....without sub.....and will patiently waitin for your recap...hehehehe......in epi 14 they switch body again...i wonder how they will end this crazynesss...cant' wait for the next episode....
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amhrancas
December 26, 2010 at 11:17 PM
OI!!!!!!! SPOILERS!!!! D8< THANKS A LOT.
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136 Pat
December 26, 2010 at 10:38 PM
She is supposedly really strong and he is kinda weak so she should have thrown him across the room and then made nice voluntarily and the scene would not have had such an ick factor and had the same effect. Force is nasty. And very unecessary here.
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137 crebold
December 26, 2010 at 10:39 PM
I'm watching this but i still can really get into it, i just don't find anything romantic between the primary couples bickering at each other. I also don't really get that some people find it okay that Jo-won basically forces himself on Ra-Im. Jeez it basically very abusive and is sexual harrasment. Parts of this show just doesn't sit well with me.
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138 Canto
December 26, 2010 at 10:43 PM
I'd hate to add fat to fire... as if the heated discussions over the 'bed' scene was not enough... but something strikes me as I read the comments, although I have not watched the episode in subs yet.
I do understand and appreciate JB's insightful comments and concern over SG writers protraying a sensitive scene like that as idealized romanticism.
I fully agree that real rape is nothing ideal and nothing romantic, and the perpetuator should be fully punished by the law.
But JW and RI, were they on the edge of pushing legal and moral boundaries?
I don't know, maybe I am not qualified to comment because I have not watched the full episodes but I don't think so.
Should the SG writer be flamed because she is insinuating and sending a bad message to impressionable fans that connotations of rape are linked with romantic fantasies?
I don't know, because I have not watched the episode and do not know how much of JW's actions are culpable to be misunderstood as rape?
Is it the intent of the writer or the actors to portray elements of rape into the scene? I do not know the intent of the writer and actor (Hyun Bin), but right now, I think it is not very likely, that the director, writer or actor want the viewers to connect JW's actions on RI as anything to do with rape.
If that is the case, it would a situation of inappropriate action. To JB and other SG viewers, they feel offended because of JW's inappropriate actions, even if his intent was not to rape. To other SG viewers who spoke up in defence of JW, they do not feel that his actions were inappropriate enought to be linked with rape.
A progressive, westernized person will stand his/her ground and say that k-dramas should not perpetuate connotations of rape in an ideal relationship, and it is wrong.
A person who reads mills and boons (by the way, are k-dramas not very different from mills and boons?), and likes them, may say, I am not so affected, as long as it is not rape, I am not raped, and no one is raped? Don't put a dirty spin on my ideal romantic story, and don't criticise my hero, because he is not a pervy rapist!
And the debate continues...
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139 Reality Check
December 26, 2010 at 11:00 PM
You people have issues if you are trying to get some type of morality out of a tv show. Most people can separate reality from make believe.
JW has the maturity level of a 10 year old in the drama, so he does what a 10 year old would do in certain situation. In real life RM would haved kick him to the curb during episode 1.
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140 sunandmoon
December 26, 2010 at 11:03 PM
Believe me, if this were any other drama, I'd be up in arms over the bed scene, but here I think the reaction is misplaced because of how the drama has established Raim and Joowon as individuals and how their dynamic works.
1) During their whole relationship, Raim has been conveying "No means yes." I don't think it's healthy, and it's one of the things I don't like about Raim's characterization. But if Joowon had backed down at the first "No," there would be no relationship, and that doesn't seem to be what Raim wants either. And perhaps it's Korean culture that the woman has to pretend to reject the man a few times to test his perseverance -- for instance, when Ah-young says that she'll train her man by rejecting him the first time and making him wait for her. Raim is different from Ah-young in that she doesn't seem to be purposefully playing coy, but old-fashioned feminine modesty seems to make her timid in romantic situations with Joowon. Luckily, Raim does take some steps forward and open up more in Ep. 14.
2) Raim and Joowon have a very physical, albeit non-sexual, relationship. Raim has repeatedly hit, kicked, and wrestled Joowon. Legally, that is assault and battery, and unlike most women Raim is actually physically stronger than Joowon, so it is not a situation of a man just pretending to be overpowered by a woman in some k-dramas and movies. However, Joowon is never threatened by this behavior because he trusts Raim not to cross the boundary to real abuse. Similarly, I see Joowon's skinship gestures as over-the-top and at times exasperating, but never threatening to Raim. To me, this bed scene is surprisingly innocent, almost childish. I was expecting him to try to do more, but he actually didn't. There is another scene like this in Ep. 14 where Joowon's intentions turn out to be more innocent than Raim imagines, and -- ironically, given the response here -- I think this scene is supposed to be part of a sequence showing that Joowon is NOT a beast, but like a child who just wants to cuddle and hold hands.
3) Joowon is prone to being provocative and giving a lot of insults and threats that shouldn't be taken at face value. He has called Raim ugly a number of times, but in a non-serious way to make Raim tease him back. He threatens to call his lawyer, but has never done so. We've seen his antics before. So when he tells her to keep still or he'll really jump her bones in that dry, comical tone of his, we clearly know that he's not serious. No, it's not a nice thing to say, and if it weren't Joowon, I'm not sure another man could pull it off, but here I see minimal damage.
That said, I do not believe the fundamental attraction between Raim and Joowon. This is my main issue with the drama. They are too different in personality, tastes, and values. I can't believe that their interest in each other is more than fleeting as Joowon's mother suspects. Jongsoo and Raim would be a better match. Maybe Joowon and a woman like Oska if she somewhere exists... In any case, I suspend judgment because I still really enjoy this drama, especially the quirky, witty dialogue, top-notch acting, and beautiful scenery.
I especially liked in this episode: Joowon's hilarious tap dance on the stairs!
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141 Reality Check
December 26, 2010 at 11:14 PM
People need to take the drama as a whole. Not just to cherry pick a single scene. We see JW try to use a pen, then a paper clip to try and pick the lock door. RM just scuff at his actions. I dont see people getting upset he was trying to break in.
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142 stella
December 26, 2010 at 11:19 PM
man..I'm sorry but I really hate your recap this time..taking the fun pout of the drama
I read a translation on another website....
and I think
you are missing some of the points and focus instead on the bed scenes. Also, I think you are reading too much into the bed scenes...
I think JW is not a one dimensional person that you can read as black and white...and so does their relationship..
They know each other for quite some time, now. I'll say they are closer to each other than any of their friends since they've been switching body and all...
and it's not like he's trying to rape her..He just want to sleep side by side just like the night before...
I think he is just trying to get her to admit to her feelings...
of course, the man has issues on how to woo a girl..then again ra im is not your regular girl......
Try living with a mother like him..you'll probably want to kill yourself.....
And there are several good scenes from that episode....
Anyway, Despite some of Joo Woon hardheadedness, I think he has done a lot. Let's not forget that from the beginning he is the one who really put an efforts into getting to know Ra Im. Ra Im has rarely shown him, her feelings...so please cut JW some slack.....
He's been waiting outside his house all night....
and don't read his line as is.
When he said he doesn't know how to apologize...it may not mean literally..it could mean it's to hard to put the feelings into words.....
Just saying "I'm sorry" will make it sound cheesy...and for drama sakes..if everything is smooth..it won't be a good drama, ne???
Anyway..I'm crazy about this drama..it's so addictive....
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143 sg13
December 26, 2010 at 11:29 PM
a lot of comments going on here particularly on these points:
bed scene - yes its wrong to force yourself to someone, and one could have fought harder. ra-im is a strong woman, where was her strength then? perhaps she saw that JW meant no harm other than just being his crazy ass spoilt self. just sayin..of course they could have done it in some other way
ra-im's outfit/do - what can you expect when it's oska's stylist that did it to her? it's oska's style. I prefer JW's imagination of her in the first few episodes
this said i still so luv SG!
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144 fp
December 26, 2010 at 11:43 PM
lol ~ what's with the ruckus on the bed scene?
It's one of my fave scene in this episode.
This scene should be taken in context with the whole plot/story & characters, not on that particular scene alone.
If I don't know the characters background in SG, then I will also be offended, but since I watched this drama from day 1, and know that RI & JW are somewhat attracted to each other, I have to say that this scene is actually sweet.
Thanks for the recap JB ~ our opinions differ though... should be ok coz each of us is entitled to it.
Let's move on people. There's a lot of beautiful scene & dialogue in this episode that needs highlighting.
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145 Vendetta
December 26, 2010 at 11:46 PM
LOL the Ra-im and Oska twin hairdo was funny XD
But yes I totally agree with you on the Ra-im semi rape scene, to be honest it was a bit uncomfortable to watch. :(
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Vendetta
December 26, 2010 at 11:53 PM
since I don't wanna be misunderstood, what I meant by "uncomfortable" was if I was someone who had just seen that without knowing anything about the plot and characters of the drama then it would look totally wrong.
Since I know RI and JW, I know how strange their relationship is so that's why I'm okay with it XD and we know RI could seriously kick JW's @$$ if she wanted to lol
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146 bit
December 26, 2010 at 11:48 PM
thank you for the review. i've been watching this ep. without sub :p
I just love the way joo-won forgetting his pain & rushed over to ra im place when he heard the bad news.
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147 Atsirk
December 26, 2010 at 11:55 PM
Good point, JB. I mean, if that were to happen in real life, I would've kicked JW's ass. Really.
But we can't deny the oozing chemistry there...*sigh*
Thanks for the recaps :D
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148 leddik
December 27, 2010 at 12:38 AM
I actually liked this episode. It certainly tickled my funny bone in the beginning with Jongsoo dragging away Jowon. Was it just me , but I loved his little contented growl when he snuggled up to Raim. Then the scene with the mom, gushing tears. You could really feel Raim's pain. *sigh* The bed scene. I liked that he just wanted to cuddle with her some more and the chemistry was crackling off the screen. However it really did bother me that he had a death grip on both her wrists and forced her on the bed. I don't know anyone who wouldn't be uncomfortable seeing that scene. I was really disturbed by it, but I calmed down when I saw that that was all he was gonna do so I get what you're saying JB.
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149 Sarah
December 27, 2010 at 12:43 AM
is it me or do you and girlfriday keep on ranting about every show? I mean, it's k-drama; people watch it knowing it's going to be cheesy and repetitive--with the occasional surprising, unpredictable gooey-awesome scenes. i really feel like a little 3-year old saying "but this isn't childish, it's cute!" to all the rants you all make about how certain scenes and plots are passe etc.
sheesh. pump some spirit and appreciation in your recaps.
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150 cingdoc
December 27, 2010 at 1:10 AM
@JB & girlfriday,
by the looks of things,I can tell that my Christmas gifts to you guys haven't arrived. I mean how else can I explain that this recap is full of comments that were rudely written(should we have a class about internet etiquette- you know,no capitalization is allowed since it's "yelling" or peeps shouldn't start calling each other names)First thing Mon am, I'll do a tracking on the whereabout of the package..I mean the instrument is quiet small but very useful..Please let me know when you receive it & implement it right away...it's labeled "Common courtesy"measure meter. :)
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