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That Winter, The Wind Blows: Episode 13

There’s a bit of meandering and soul-searching our characters need to do before everyone finally cuts to the chase, though you might be left wanting when it comes to the Big Confrontation. Really, we should know by now that holing two characters up in the middle of nowhere usually leads to something we either seriously like or seriously don’t like, but sometimes shows can still surprise us. And not that happy kind of surprise where you’re all, “Oh, Winter, you shouldn’t have!” More like, “Oh, Winter. You really shouldn’t have.”

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EPISODE 13 RECAP

While Young processes the earth-shattering revelation that the brother she thought she trusted was only lying to her, and that her real brother is dead, Secretary Wang and Soo continue their battle of wills none the wiser.

Despite admitting to being responsible for Young’s blindness due to intentional neglect, Secretary Wang is adamant that the surgery be performed on Young, since Sun-hee found an iota of optimism even with the failed simulation.

On that day, she expects Soo to leave empty-handed. The most she’ll do for him is tell Young that he didn’t take any money because he loved her.

But Soo tags her right back, since he’s set up a meeting with Lawyer Jang and Young’s fraudulent doctor. This news doesn’t faze Secretary Wang until he adds that Mi-ra will act as a witness – and that gets her quaking in her boots. “I told you,” Soo reminds her, his face expressionless. “We’ll go down together.”

Unaware that Young knows everything (though you’d think he would have been more careful about yelling in a blind person’s house), Soo tries knocking on her door. When she doesn’t answer he just rests against it, resigned.

Inside, Young sits and stews over all the puzzle pieces now fitting together – all the clues she’d heard before but ignored now serving as proof of Soo’s con. Different emotions flash across her face – rage, sorrow, disbelief, maybe even anger that she let herself be fooled. Now it all makes sense to her.

Coupled with all the evidence pointing to Soo’s falsehood come the fond memories Young shared with Soo, which only work to confuse her feelings. She sits at the edge of her bed shaking with sobs, desperately clutching (but not ringing) the string attached to the glass bell.

It’s like she’s resisting every urge to ring it, until she finally casts the string aside, causing it to ring anyway.

So-ra messages Soo that she told Young everything, adding that his only chance of survival lies with her, as long as he skips town to join her in Italy. I know this girl is delusional as all get-out but Come. On.

Lawyer Jang becomes outraged when Mi-ra tells him the truth – that she conspired with Secretary Wang to hide the truth of Young’s illness from her for money. “How can a human being do something like that?!” he yells. “How could a friend do something like that?!”

For that matter, he also turns in Young’s fraudulent doctor to get his license revoked.

Young goes to the secret greenhouse room to record a video, noticing the different scents in the room only now – Secretary Wang’s, and Soo’s.

Soo tries attempt number 3,993 to rid himself of Jin-sung, but Jin-sung explains his tick-like resilience as such: “Hyung, you’re my family.” And something he learned from his mother when he and Soo were kids was that you don’t abandon family. Soo: 0, Jin-sung: 3,993.

Jin-sung is also unwilling to give up, and has already cooked up some alternate plans to get Soo to live, which involves him returning to his gambling roots.

“You have to win that game no matter what,” Jin-sung calls after him. “Then you can finally be the decent person you couldn’t be until now. Be a son to my parents. Be a hyung to me. Be an oppa to Hee-sun. And to Young… when you get a chance to tell Young everything later, be sure to tell her this: Because of her, you – who didn’t think much of life before – you who said you’ll live like trash because you were thrown away like trash… For the first time, you wanted to live like a decent person. You have to tell her that.”

Lawyer Jang is on a rageathon and slaps Soo the second he sees him, calling for a joint meeting with Secretary Wang. Young’s surgery is scheduled for the coming weekend, and while Wang thinks Soo will be the only one leaving the house, Lawyer Jang reminds her that she’s grossly mistaken. Both of them will leave, and he’ll stay with Young.

Secretary Wang sticks her nose into the air, confident that Lawyer Jang won’t get his way. But he’s got evidence against her the company shareholders won’t like, and that’s not even including her crimes against Young, which he’ll discuss with her personally before taking action.

He freely admits that he doesn’t understand either Secretary Wang or Soo, but he wants Soo to continue the charade of being Young’s oppa “until the end.” Soo says he’ll do his best.

Young acts collected when she meets the three downstairs, though her request for Secretary Wang to accompany her to pick out a wedding dress comes as a surprise. Soo starts to get an inkling when Young reaffirms that he’s not invited, but the real bombshell comes when Young calmly asks him if he’d like to go traveling before the surgery. Somewhere like Italy.

He already knows she knows, and if she didn’t know he knows she knows (I know), then she’s making it pretty clear now that SHE KNOWS. The icing on the betrayal cake comes when Young has the glass bell thrown out.

Despite Soo realizing her aim, he plays along and suggests a different destination before he secretly saves the bell from the recycling bin.

While en route to go shopping, Young asks Wang about her past in the household, somehow taking pity on the woman because she was as old as Young when she first showed up twenty years ago.

Young reaches out to hold her hand, noting that they’re always cold. Wang tears up as she agrees. I really hope this is fake-pity and not real pity for the woman who made her blind. (I guess if it’s real pity, there’s hope for Soo.)

Soo goes to the secret greenhouse room, a room which apparently gives all who enter the magical ability to see all the past events that transpired in it. He sees exactly how Young trashed the room before he calmly starts to pick up the pieces.

He watches the video Young left for him, where she tearfully asks how much of this he planned – did he just want her to trust him as her brother? Did he lie so she could love him? She knows he can see her pain and asks how he feels to see her that way, and judging by his facial expression, he’s had better days.

“Perhaps, do you think you’ve won?” Young asks through the projection, and Soo bows his head in guilt.

Young seems to be giving Secretary Wang her perfect day, one where she gets treated like the mother she always wanted to be. I shouldn’t be feeling sorry for Secretary Wang, but why do I feel like I want to be?

Hee-sun calls Young up to meet, and we know she wants to just ask for the money. Jin-sung knows too, and refuses to acknowledge her until she promises not to tell Young anything.

In the meantime, he tries his own method for saving Soo, by contacting someone who can lend them gambling money. Hee-sun isn’t happy about it and tries to convince Jin-sung not to do it if she promises to live with him, to which he replies: Bros before hoes.

Secretary Wang swells up with pride when she sees Young in a wedding dress, and Young plays right into her earnest desires by having their picture taken. Like a true family.

“For someone who took care of me for over twenty years,” Young begins. “It’s tragic how this is the only present I can give you.”

Ah, but here comes the qualifier: After Young wakes up from surgery, Secretary Wang is fired. Maybe you should’ve waited to give her this news until after the surgery, when the chances of her smothering you with a pillow in your sickness are smaller.

Hee-sun flat-out asks Young for the money, though she does freak out a bit when Young knows the exact amount she needs, thinking Soo’s cover has been blown. That IS the case, but she also told Young about his debt that time she almost ruined his whole scheme. Hee-sun breathes a sigh of relief.

She tries to convince Young that Soo isn’t behind the request: “I hope you don’t misunderstand or hate him. Soo was a good guy, enough for my sister to love him.” She pauses. “Help me. You have the money.”

Young starts to get angry, but Hee-sun isn’t deterred and reminds Young that she loves Soo. “To you people, is my love an excuse to get money?” Young grits out. I love that Hee-sun only sort-of cares about her feelings, since she tries to stress that this is a life or death situation for Soo, and Young can just give him the money now and sort out her feelings later.

Jin-sung borrows money from an old contact, though he fails to realize that the deal is too good to be true when that contact reports directly to Boss Man. Ah, so the moneylending was intentional so that Boss Man could control Jin-sung. But why?

There’s some hope, in that Moo-chul knows something shady is going on. (And he seems to care about Jin-sung.) But he won’t get anything out of the Gangster Wannabe who’s sworn revenge on him, because Moo-chul didn’t let him join in any reindeer games.

Young finds Soo waiting for her in the greenhouse, and they have a passive-aggressive discussion about their upcoming vacation, since Soo doesn’t remember the villa where they used to go to, when the real Oh Soo would have.

“You remember useless things like the cotton candy, but you don’t remember that?” she all but scoffs. For now the pretense is maintained only by virtue of no one talking straight, but Young forces him to agree to taking a vacation the next day, right before her surgery, since she can’t be sure if she’ll live to do it after.

She brushes across another memory Soo fooled her with, the lamb’s ear plant, and throws it in frustration. This vacation is going to be super fun, isn’t it?

They head off for the promised land, with Soo waxing poetic about how the winter wind never felt cold when he was around her, only for Young to fire back that it was still plenty cold when she was with him. Hah. I’m sure her deadpan remarks aren’t meant to be funny, but they sort of are right now.

Secretary Wang finds out that So-ra told Young everything and calls Soo in a panic to come home, but since he already knows, he just hangs up at Young’s behest. He even does exactly as Young says and turns off his phone.

Wang continues to fret about Young’s strange behavior and eventually finds a new will Young drafted in Braille, one which gives all her wealth to the blind charity center. (Also, the orchestra from Inception stops by to lend a little background music.)

Myung-ho calls up to say that Young broke off the engagement through a text message. (Hah.) But the point is, Young’s actions make it seem like she’s preparing to die.

The drivable road ends for Soo and Young, so he decides to trek the rest of the way with her on his back. Young had thought he would just turn around, so when Soo replies that they’ve come too far to go back, it seems like they’re talking about the broader issues between them.

Soo pauses for a breather, and Young is nice enough to give him some water before they finally reach her family’s long-neglected and incredibly-isolated villa. Only then does she notify him that she’s hungry, but leaves the finding of foodstuffs up to him since they’re in the middle of nowhere.

Young keeps making simple, childish demands that Soo submits to without protest, bringing up old memories that he obviously doesn’t share all the while.

Soo goes out that night to find food, while Young just waits, still as a stone.

Meanwhile, Secretary Wang tries to find out where they could be staying, and stumbles across Soo’s letter to Young in Braille. She knows that Soo knows, and that both of them know everything, but she can’t figure out why they’d take a trip together.

Lawyer Jang tries reassuring her that Young is safe if Soo’s there, but the poor ajusshi tears up when he finds the picture Soo left of her real brother, torn in half.

Soo returns to the house with food, and momentarily panics when he can’t instantly find Young, only to sigh in relief to find her waiting in a back room. I’m sure he’s worried about what she’ll do in this angry state, but it might be a little easier if they both stopped ignoring the big white elephant in the room.

Young brings up “their” dad again when Soo is cooking, pestering him with questions about memories he should have. Soo avoids most of them by being non-committal, though Young keeps going, this time talking about how her dad would give her mom coffee by the fireplace. Something about these memories is starting to ring false…

Soo asks about Mom and Dad’s relationship, which triggers something in Young: “Leave the day I get my surgery.” He planned on leaving after she got it, but she corrects him – she wants him to leave the second they get back to Seoul.

So Soo responds by… playing along with her memory game? *looks at the time*

Young catches him on this fake-memory, since he was taking her words at face value that their/her parents had a good relationship, when in reality, Young’s last memory at the cabin was of her hiding with her brother under the covers as their/her parents fought. She intentionally misled him to see if he’d take the fake-bait, and he did.

To make matters worse, the memory she’s rehashing is the exact moment when their(?) parents told them that Young would stay with her father while Soo would go with her mother.

“What I told you today were all lies,” Young finally admits. Everything from the firewood to the soup to the coffee were all made-up things that never happened. She confesses that the past few days have been terrible for her, but then decides to change the subject. How about that Oh Soo who was abandoned under a tree? Was his dream to be a conman?

Soo lets her have her say, his eyes brimming with understanding. I guess that’s the best reaction, since it’s not like he can be mad that she’s mad.

Young is careful to talk about “the conman Oh Soo” in the third person, as though they’re still NOT talking about him. When she asks what Conman Oh Soo wanted to be when he grew up, Soo replies, “A carpenter. A farmer. A fisherman. An engineer. Anything but a conman or a gambler.”

Then, he drops the facade: “Not from the beginning, but after I met you.” For some reason, Young tries to cling to the farce that they’re still talking about anyone but him. Soo’s the one to put an end to the charade first: “Let’s stop it. You know who I am.”

Young tearfully admits that she does, she was just trying to see how long Soo would keep toying with her. “Let’s hear your excuses,” she says, and I don’t think she’s expecting Soo’s reply. “I have no excuse. I know that I hurt you.”

This is what pushes Young over the brink, and what she says makes a surprising amount of sense:

“Rather than saying those words, if you had just told me that when you were young, the wounds you received from being abandoned like trash caused you to live like trash, and that more so than a blind person like me, you were hurting more… Those words would have been more comforting. You knew I loved you yet you still fooled me. If you had just told me that you didn’t get a kick out of tricking me, it would have been more comforting. Out of all the reasons why I can’t forgive you, the main reason is that right now, I can’t even mourn the death of my brother who I missed as much as my mother. Because of you. Loving a conman like you, let’s just blame it on my blindness. Although I hate you enough to want to kill you, no matter how I think about it, there’s nothing a blind person like me can do. You fooled me good, all along.”

Soo tries to stop her from leaving with a Wrist Grab, but she spins around and slaps him. This time, he stops her and pulls her into an embrace, overpowering her struggles by holding her tighter. This is getting really uncomfortable.

They struggle back and forth, with Young trying her best to get out of his embrace. Soo then grabs her by the face and forcibly kisses her, coming up for air afterward like he just took an underwater dive. She keeps struggling.

Soo goes back in for another kiss(?), holding her still until she stops struggling and gives in.

And then, a quiet moment passes as he finally pulls away and lets her go.

“It’s really the end for us,” Young says before she walks away, devastated.

 
COMMENTS

It’s not too surprising that the plot pretty much came to a halt after the big secret reveal, if only because the secret was SO big that everyone needed some time to come to grips. Granted, it was mostly Young coming to terms since everyone around her knew Soo’s secret, but in that sense I’m thankful that we got their reactions staggered throughout the series rather than piled on top of hers all at once, since her reaction was the one that really mattered.

So while Young took her time in finally getting to the point, I was actually surprised and pleased by what she said when she did get around to saying it. Most of the time, excuses are generally unwelcome in apologies, but Soo’s simple acknowledgment of wrongdoing wasn’t enough for her. Not because she wanted to keep arguing about it, but because maybe, deep down, she wanted to try to understand him. And in a way, her willingness to understand him and the fact that she thought of all the excuses he could have given instead of just a deadpan admission means she did understand him. Doesn’t mean she can’t still hate him for tearing her heart out.

And that’s all moderately acceptable. I can buy that these two characters put themselves in an internalizing hell so much so that they had to lock themselves in solitary confinement and drag the proceedings out until the very last second, until they could get to a place where they could think about discussing their issues. Good. Finally.

But… the discussion stopped there.

If we were to break this scene down just by character motivation alone, then Soo still comes out as a terrible human being. And that hurts me to say because I genuinely like his character (not to mention Jo In-sung) and, honestly, I was already completely over the con. Let’s face it, HE was over the con a while ago, and was in this only because of his feelings for Young. Otherwise he’d care about the money and his life a little more, right?

To me, that’s a noble change. To go from conning Young willingly to save his own skin, to saving her even if it costs him his own skin – that’s all stuff I can get behind. And yes, he’s been operating on a different wavelength than Young since he was never under the assumption that they were related and could then love her to his heart’s content. Up until last episode (which seems to equate to a few days in drama time), Young had NO IDEA that the man she was spooning with this whole time was in fact *not* her brother. (Regardless of the issues I had with Young’s naivety, I can’t change the show’s internal logic.)

So he’s seen her go through this (admittedly recent and convenient) moral crisis about having inappropriate feelings for her brother, only for her to try hard to overcome those same feelings. Then, she finds out she got tricked, with just a tiny bit of time to process the fact before Soo tries to solve their problems by forcing her into a kiss. The fact that he does so twice and with an added forced-hug doesn’t do him any favors.

Before I even get to her reaction, how wrong was that, from his perspective? Not even just on a “No means NO” basis, but from someone who knows her and claims to love her, in this specific situation. The fact that Young started having feelings for Soo when he was her brother doesn’t provide a compelling enough argument for Soo to think that forcing himself on her like that, when she’d previously thought of him as FAMILY, was anything less than horrifyingly, gut-wrenchingly wrong. It’s emotionally scarring enough for someone without that kind of subtext to be forced into intimacy, but the fact that she’d previously thought of them as blood kin… it just made my skin crawl, frankly.

In retrospect, I think the moment would have been more tolerable had she struggled her way out, instead of giving into the kiss. Even without all the feelings and bad connotations her submission brought about, it’s unsatisfying just on a flat-out story level, because their issues transcended the realm of what romantic love could solve. And that’s even considering whether one could cover his actions under the umbrella of, “He just loved her so much, and didn’t know how to express it.”

I can’t. I tried. And I feel gross for even trying, because on a base level that kind of force is never kosher, no matter whether his intent was just to stop at a kiss or take it all the way to the bedroom. The fact that she later gave in does not give that scene an automatic checkpoint, it just makes me really, really upset.

Winter. Seriously. If there was ever a show that needed to stand in the corner for a week, you’re it.

 
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I love this drama.. And I love how the writer keep surprised us with all her belieavable - close to reality character.. For me, this drama wins my heart.. I get engrosed with both main character and even the side kick..

I do enjoy all the comments.. I felt disturbing at first reading the disagree comments, but then actually it opens to quite amazing discussion, many of you spoke up and put your insights, which for me, help me a lot to understand the character specially Oh Soo and for others it opens up my point of view in other perspective..

Ahh really cant wait for wed-thurs and wed again.. Thanks

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I just realized that this series is going towards the same direction as the movie it was derived from. If that is the case, then, it's not going to be a happy ending.

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I don't think so. It's going to the same direction as the japanese drama where it was adapted from so i believe it's a happy ending.

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Thank you the episodes synopsis. They make such an ideal couple. Haiz....so much passion and romance;-) Cant wait to re ad the balance episodes. Tq

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Btw in which other dramas have both the lead stars acted in besides this? Tq

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thanks a lot for the recap,but not enjoying this ep like the previous ones!!!

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HeadsNo2 - such a full of crap recap!!!!

do not bother with your biased opinions

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This drama makes me very uncomfortable. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing...

Thank you for the recaps! I have to say, the cinematography for this drama is amazing. Just look at the coloring... the ambiance. it's spot on.

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Wow lots of commentary on this!

I think the scene did what it was supposed to do, express the emotional fuckwittage of the characters.

It invoked the desperation of both parties. Is it likeable or understandable? No. This was not a romantic scene or a hot scene and it was supposed to be offputting and uncomfortable. It wasn't a man expressing sexual passion, or anger, inappropriately or not. I do not see it as Soo acting on his own sexual feelings. I saw it as Soo desperately trying to find some way to incite YOUNG'S passion for him, despite knowing who he really was, to try to invoke that attraction she had for him, some feeling for him, in her, so that he could stay in her life. It was a last ditch effort. Was it appropriate? No. There was a whole lot of emotion in their actions but not one bit of it was anger or sexual on Soo's part, which would be the component needed to call it sexual assault/rape. It WAS however emotional manipulation.

I'm not defending the rawness or violence of the scene, it was pretty awful to watch.

I am defending the creative license of the writer to use the scene to portray fuckwittage of the characters.

I have seen some interpretation that Young kissed him back. I did not see it like that. I watched the scene again to see if I was missing something. Still not seeing it. What I saw was her friggin lips stuck to his and they moved when he moved. My interpretation was that she stopped struggling as a defense-she tried another method to free herself. It worked. Like Devils snare, right? Or indifference. No reaction got his attention. The fact that the camera zoomed on her hands, well, this is the end in her mind, right? The hands are a tell that she's a feeling human being and that is the last time she's planning on touching this person, and that there is some part of her that wants to cling, and it had nothing to do with sexual passion.

And for a lingering five seconds when they step apart, she waivers, sways toward him. And. That. Is. THE. Moment. of the entire episode where Young weighs the pain of the loss of this person in her life versus the pain he has caused her.

And she turns away.

Also, they both express feelings physically with each other, from affection to joy, to sadness to fear to anger, so a physical struggle at the height of emotion is in keeping with the characters.

Other commentary on commentary:

-This particular scene is not about promoting fantasy rape and does not send mixed messages that no means maybe.

-The whole show is chock full of violence, this was not the first violent scene. We cannot call out this scene over violence.

-Both of these characters are physically violent.

-The whole show is chock full of emotional abuse and manipulation. We cannot call out this scene over emotional manipulation.

-Both of these characters emotionally manipulate. They are well matched in that area. I actually think that Young is much better at it than Soo.

-Feminism is about equality for women in all aspects of life.

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I think you're right about Young not kissing back. Her whole body was tensed during their struggle. When she stopped struggling and relaxed eventually she relaxed her lips which she had tensed up during his forced kiss. Her lips relaxed just as the kiss was ending and their lips were parting. That's what I saw.

I also agree about the last scene where it was more about expressing emotions, or hanging on to something or a means of a different communication between them. That forced hug and kissing wasn't about sexual feelings, but more about Soo's desperate attempt to convey a message he clearly doesn't know how to in words. Its more about fighting for her to understand how he really feels and to stop her from just walking away angry with him.

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The best comment so far.

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This episode needed an edit check dearly, that last scene just did not fit in at all...could've been much more than it ended up being. Such a pity.

Quite happy about the physical arguments between Oh Soo and Secretary Wang though on a separate note.

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I agree about the strange editing. Of course it gives us a cliffhanger but I'm not sure it was a good idea... Cue the extreme reactions of the audience here.
We now need to see what OY feels, thinks and wants, after what happened.

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That last scene was intense and emotional. I was not offended by it. It's not a family drama, it has a very mature tone so it was ok. I will keep watching.

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Wow. I have only read the recap and all the comments just now and I must say I feel rather conflicted.

I think I'll just say my piece about the forced-kiss.

I'm a writer too (well a writer wannabe. Nothing close Noh Hee Kyung level) but the thing that I already understand about writing is, writer just dont write what they want to write. Believe it or not, once a writer gets settled into their initial plot, all the characters come alive and they kinda determine the rest of the story. So when people around the writer say "You shouldn't write it this way or that way" a writer will shake his/her head and say "But my characters would" Seriously. I've had this feeling several times that no matter what others told me, nothing mattered. Because, well, as a writer, I am just a mere messenger of what my characters would say or do.

So I'm putting myself into Noh Hee Kyung shoes as a writer here. the forced-kiss. Is it wrong? Yes.

But that's what the characters would do. She's just telling their stories (not hers. Does this make sense?)

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*nodding* it makes sense..

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I too write and this is absolutely true.

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Absolutely. Given what happened before that fateful kiss, I defy anyone to write a replacement scene for OS. What should be his logical reaction?
I still think that the OY character lacks some coherence (choice of NHK to show her confusion? pressure of SBS? bad perception by myself? inadequate filming choices?) but the part written for JIS is very solid. For me, OS actions and thoughts are cristal clear.
As someone who likes to write too (as a hobby), I know that feeling. When the muse is here, it's a bit like being posessed: Dialogues and actions come naturally and your characters gain their own life.

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@Mystisith-I too think there is something lacking in Young's character development, a lack of clarity. I think it is interesting that we find the character of Oh Soo, the con man, so clear, when he should be the ambiguous one.

Also, some comments on Young while it is on my mind. The more I think about the plot and the character, the more Young bugs me. Yes she had tragic things happen to her. Yes as a child she was at the mercy of others. Yes she was target for a con. I'm not saying she is not sympathetic. But her victim card on some fronts has an expiration date.

She is not a child with no options. She is a wealthy grown woman with power and an attorney with ethics that cares about her. Despite his feelings for Sec. Wang, Lawyer guy is Team Young. She could have got rid of Sec. Wang a long time ago. She chose to keep her around AND give her power. Same thing with the friend that Wang had in her pocket. Young chose to keep her around. Same thing with fiance. Yes, Daddy picked him out and sometimes people choose political marriages and if that is what she chose, fine, but SHE'S the one with the power in the relationship. Being blind doesn't mean she can't function, and use her brain and make decisions and make friends and have a life. After becoming an adult, she could have received medical consultations from anywhere in the world. She could have had that doctor that lied investigated and the truth out a long time ago. And she could have found her brother a long time ago, there was no reason she couldn't have him tracked down.

Regarding Soo. Yes, he came into victimize her, but you know, she's allowed the con. She didn't investigate him. It's not rocket science-The first thing I would have done the minute he showed up is carry his fine narrow ass in for a dna test, and hire a private investigator. Soo would have been outed within a week with a simple investigation. But she chose not to.

She didn't do anything to empower herself as an adult. Not. One. Thing. Thus, I call bullshit.

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Wow...if this had been a thriller/psychotic kinda drama I would've guessed that Young is trying to manipulate everyone and ruin their lives. This is a great insight, Mar. All the time I was watching this show I'd hope that we'd somehow get to hear her inner thoughts.

I wonder if she's just playing the victim card, waiting to strike, like how she was all nice to Sect Wang one moment and told her off the next. Sect Wang can sense that something is wrong when Young asked Soo to go on that trip.

Please come fast ep 14. I need to stop with all the guessing and analysing!

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I couldn't say better. *clap, clap*
Really, ep 14 &15 will be the ones which will make or break this drama. If she was in fact cooking something behind the back of everyone (characters and us) in order to be free, then I will redeem her.
For now she's just an indecisive bratty princess like many before her and I can't root for that.
Dammit, I need that good old talk between her and OS. Cards on the table!

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@Mar: "She is not a child with no options. She is a wealthy grown woman with power and an attorney with ethics that cares about her. Despite his feelings for Sec. Wang, Lawyer guy is Team Young. She could have got rid of Sec. Wang a long time ago."

You're ignoring her father. He dies at the beginning, but before he died he was definitely team!Wang. And her attorney was both team!Dad and team!Wang. That's what her videos were all about -- crying out to the one person she thought might come in and help: her brother.

Why? Because her cries to her father went unanswered.

So until her father died she was a child with no options. And by the time he died, Wang had her tied up pretty tightly. All those moments of "strength", Young specifically explains how they're meaningless. Because Wang has sacrificed so much to help Young, so any complaining was seen as "spoiled little princess" bitching. And because she's just a little blind girl, any good work at the company was treated as a cute performing dog. Wang was the one really getting things done.

Her big moment of strength was going to find her brother at the very beginning. And that got undermined by her father's death. Wang was a brilliant schemer. And I thought the show did a good job showing what Young was up against. Even going so far as to show how sympathetic Wang could seem.

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I agree with you, Betsy. Young was not an adult woman with lot of option, she really WAS at the mercy of her father and sec. Wang, especially financially and considering her practical life. But I think there's even more into it: Young's relationship with Wang is a twisted relationship of needing and being needed. Wang has manipulated Young for years, ever since she was a child and that's some heavy brain washing there. Basically, Wang convinced her that she couldn't cope alone, that she needed Wang in her life. It wouldn't be easy for a seeing person to shake of the effects of such a long manipulation but when we're speaking about the person who IS to some extent dependent on others, it becomes even more difficult.

Young has resorted in a sort of passive aggressive tactics. She hates her situation but cannot openly lash out and so she's cruel and cold in her communication. And she really is alone, there has been NOBODY telling her that she can do it herself, that she doesn't need to lean on Wang all the time. Just like there was NOBODY telling Soo that Hee Joo's death wasn't his fault. When were told something repeatedly over and over again, we start to believe it. And often we need somebody to tell us things to really believe in them. Young had Wang telling her that she wasn't able to live without Wang and demonstrating it in Young's daily life. And she had no one to tell her otherwise.

Also, Young is clearly clinically depressed. I think her death wish is more a wish "not to live" than actually dying. She sees no hope, she has resigned to her fate and ONLY thing that can free her from her loneliness and pathetic life being dependent on others is death. This is especially true after the tumor relapses and we're shown that she senses this already in the beginning of the drama even though she hasn't been to the doctor.

So there really doesn't seem to be any hope for Young. And even if she were to fight Wang after her father's death, why bother? As said, she knows she has a tumor, she's convinced she's gonna die soon anyway. Without Soo she would've just go on in a zombie-like apathy until she wouldn't be able to hide the tumor anymore which would've led to useless operation and she would've died. Just like that. And she knew this and was past caring. Because caring hurts when there's no hope and there's only so much hurt one can endure.

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@Arawn: Really good catch about the brainwashing. It made me think of that scene where Young cried with Wang about how confusing her behavior has been. The love that Wang showed her made no sense with her knowledge that it was Wang who made her blind. (Or kept her blind, anyway.)

I can't imagine what growing up with that kind of influence would bring. That Young is as strong as she is... it's actually pretty impressive.

(The way she and Soo strengthened each other, the way they blossomed in each other's company... Ergh! I'm even more annoyed at Soo's forcing himself on Young -- I hope he hasn't ruined everything.)

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Agree with you, jude. We're being shown what the characters would do, not what they (or we) should do.

The characters are acting out of sheer desperation at this point (as someone has mentioned) and, I think it shows what high stakes the characters are dealing with, in a life-and-death situation (literally).

Seems pretty brave of the Show to push the envelope by making Soo go as far as he did - hope I'm not giving the Show too much credit here, but it wasn't just written that way - it was also directed and acted that way, so I'm hoping we get major clarifications in the next ep.

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I quite agree.

The kiss might be controversial, but it is in keeping with Oh Soo's unravelling at this point, both in terms of his growing desperation, generally, and the fact that Oh Young has punished him both mentally and physically during the entire day. I don't find it a problem, personally, since it really isn't coming out of left field: they are both nasty characters in their way. The game is up - both of them are forced into vulnerable, exposed positions. Just because they're in love and the drama is shot beautifully does not mean that their love will be beautiful - it has been messy, ugly, incestuous*, and complicated from the get-go.

The more important point here is that of the writing. Art isn't made to be pretty or to fill us with warm fuzzies. It is about pushing the envelope, showing human nature as it is, and challenging us every step of the way.

This is how Noh Hee Kyung wrote her characters. It is a pointless exercise to say "it shouldn't have been written like this." Indeed, it is a bit sad to see the writing judged. Judge the character, but not the writer. So far, I'd say she knows what she's doing.

*Incest, especially between brother and sister, is an extremely common trope in Korean cinema and television. Not as big a fascination in the West, but so ubiquitous as to almost be boring in Korea.

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Totally agree - I don't understand comments about poor characterizations, or that Soo is suddenly behaving against type, or that it shouldn't have been written that way - to me, this was the inevitable conclusion given their particular set of character flaws and the workings of the plot. Frankly, I thought the writing was masterful. I don't like either one of these characters, but I understand them (although Young less so, she's not as well defined) and love them for what they are.

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I disagree with that. The thing is, that as a professional writer, who is writing very commercial books or skripts (in this case) you have to stay in control of your story. Because you are not writing for yourself, but for an audience you have to please in order to make money. That's the not so romantic truth.
That means that you have to be flexible about what your characters do or which turn your story takes, because it might be that you have to change it if the drama's ratings are too low.

And I think this writer has some experience and knows exactly what she is doing. She wanted to show how desperate the situation is by using this kind of violence. It was intended to be tragic-romantic, showing the desperation of those two people. And it worked for a lot of viewers as you can see here in the comments.

And that is why don't like this scene. It makes it seem romantic when a man forces himself on a woman. Her giving in and kissing back after struggeling sends a very wrong message ("she means yes, even if she says no"). It's a commonly used trope in romantic literature for women, and I get why a lot of women like it. But I also absolutely get why people are offended by it. For me it was also like: No drama, please not THAT again.

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So are you saying that this scene is out-of-character? I beg to differ. This was definitely NOT some romantic bone to throw to people who think this sort of scene is hot - if it was, where were the violins, where was the soft mood lighting, and the fade-to-black as she gave in to his caresses? Nope, nope, nope. Soo has been on an increasingly downward spiral of desperation, violence, and fear as events evolve out of his control. He was headed for the wall, headed for rock-bottom, and the writer let him find it.

Do you really think this has all been done in search of ratings? It is well know that Noh finished writing the script last month, and the filming has always been 3-8 episodes ahead of the show. This did not come out of left field, and it was not shot, acted, or written for cheap thrills or for a tick in the ratings.

While it is true that some writers are forced to tweak their stories to chase the ratings, and that scriptwriters need to keep closer reins on their stories than the starving artist toiling away in the garret, Noh has the experience and the reputation to allow for more artistic license. Not every drama is like "King of Dramas." She has been around long enough to figure out how to tell a story that is full, rich and worth telling, and still fit the constraints of the medium, and fortunately she is allowed to do so.

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What was youngie thinking anyway? He went with a guy who was clearly not trustworthy, who may be dangerous - he's a gangster slash con artist with a shady past, and he's shown that he's attracted to her. Not to mention shes also attracted to him enough that she was considering crossing *that* line. That guy is not his brother so she couldn't use the same old reason that she wants to spend time with him. And she goes to this same man, this wildly attractive and emotionally unstable man to the middle of nowhere that no one else knows. And she's blind and virtually defenseless, she can't go back without his help. Im not blaming youngie, I just think she had more control that what seems, and that she knows full well the possibility of being assaulted. I do think she's testing him and she's being self destructive. But I think she knows full well what she's doing.

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That.
I can't imagine that she didn't ponder the consequences of her actions when she accepted to follow him in the woods. The idea of a test, for both of them, seems legit. He is exposed and she can't run away. Put the words in her mouth: "What are we going to do now? What do we WANT to do now?"

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Heads~

I don't always agree with you (naturally, since we're not clones), but I always respect, admire and appreciate you-- and I know the same holds true for lots of other Beanies as well. As soon as I saw the forced-kiss scene, I knew that a heated debate about it would ensue in the comments section. Fortunately, the debate hasn't been quite as antagonistic as the SeGa one was, but I imagine it's stressful for you nonetheless. I hope it hasn't taken too much of a toll on you and that in the long run, it helps to thicken your skin.

I want to express my heartfelt thanks again for all the hard work you put into the recaps, and for so generously sharing your time and talent with us. You are a kickass recapper and we are so lucky to have you.

I also want to express my gratitude to all the Beanies who contributed to the discussion in a respectful manner. The fact that comments rarely devolve into personal attacks is one of the things that makes DB so special. Pants may be optional 'round here, but civility isn't.

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Yes that's right, we love you Heads!!! >.<

I also enjoy your recaps very much, but never posted a thank you message to you. It's great that anotheraddict made this post to remind us. Seriously though, your witty comments are hilarious and I always refresh the page during breaks at university (even in lectures) to read your recaps! It's sad that this turned into such a heated debate, and I've contributed too. Feel kinda bad about this.... Please know that it didn't result from your opinions on this episode, but because us readers just LOVE to rant about our fav dramas. And without your dedication to painstakingly write, edit, and organize this recap every single week, we would all be stuck in the midterm/paperwork-blues. <3

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Yes!! THANK YOU HEADS!! hip hip hurrah :)

Where would we be without your tireless efforts and dedication, all of us k-drama lovers who either don't speak Korean or don't have ready access to subbed episodes every week?

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Very well said! Thank you again Heads, and I second all that anotheraddict wrote.

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people can not accept and acknowledge someone people successes . Jealousy is the key here so open your mind and heart to accept this drama is such a beautiful, meaningful one for a long long time in the Kdramaland.

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All I can say about forced hugs and kisses in Dramamland is that they require a stretch of imagination to be accepted. Since this is make believe, I can accept it as a tool that the writer uses to show something. In real life, that is not acceptable.

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this is a sharing by another recapper Softy who is based in korea, who sought the opinion of her korean friends and the korean netizen online reaction- i think its useful to share this as this may help us better understand the intentions of the scriptwriter towards her Korean audience

" I mentioned to my Korean friends what the online reaction was by international fans to that forced kiss scene and thankfully it seems Koreans do not share the same views. They had no issues with it whatsoever and some even went so far as to call it romantic. My friends were stunned that anyone could deem Soo’s behavior as any kind of harassment and balked at the idea. I didn’t want to take their words for it so I made them go online and check what other Korean fans of the show said. Turns out there was no need since so many called this their favorite scene so far –surprisingly the online reaction in Korea was a lot more swooning than any negative reaction. "

credit to Softy as soulsrebel.wordpress.com

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The fact that many people find the kiss romantic is exactly what I find so disturbing about it. It also indicates that the script did not do a good job of de-romanticizing abuse. Forcing oneself upon another person is NEVER an issue of romance or passion. It is about control, period.

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Wait until the next episode to see how she feels about it. She may not feel the disgust about being man handled as you do.

Many people's negative reaction to that last scene stems from where they are in their lives, but they are not taking into account the emotions and heartache these two characters are experiencing. You need to look at it from their perspective and not your reality to understand what the message is in Soo's actions.

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You know that even if a person likes the other, abuse is abuse right? If the person doesn't want it, she doesn't.

Do you know husband/wife can rape each other? Doesn't mean they like /love each other, if someone doesn't want something and the other force it, then it is wrong and there is nothing ok about it.

Koreans thought it was romantic? Well, of course they didn't find a big deal of it, because yey, it is Jung In Sung kissing SKG.

I wonder if it was another guy, an ugly actor forcing his kiss on a girl he liked, would they be okay with it? Find it romantic? No.

Plus, korean people are ok of wrist grabbing the girls and dragging them , a lot treat women as possession and like a object and when rape happens, they blame the girl for not behaving well... the fuck.

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Marital rape and being kissed by an ugly actor:
OUT OF SUBJECT.
Those can be problems in RL & even in other dramas but I can't see why they are entering the discussion here.
Also, 100% of Kdramas have at least one of those 2 elements: Wrist grabbing and/or forced kisses. If it's that untolerable for you (which is your right), watching those shows must be a painful experience. People having Sweet Prince Charming as an ideal for a man must indeed be shocked when watching TWTWB.
Also, romantic fantasies are different depending on the individuals and on the countries...

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Mystisith: I talked about it, because people here did say who would matter being kissed by HOT Soo... and how this forced kiss doesn't matter since Young likes him back.. just because she likes him back doesn't mean he abuse her.

And not everydrama has a leading man that kisses by force... wrist grabbing true, it has in every kdrama, but forced kisses?

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Well I can't think of a handful of forced kisses, but Gu Jun Pyo's attempted forced kiss on Geum Jan Di in BOF is an example of one. Second is one in which Jo In Sung stars as well: What Happens In Bali (I would not recommend you watching this if abuse isn't your thing. Ha Ji Won's character is pretty much beaten up and sexually harassed every episode). Third, the infamous "almost rape" scene in Que Sera Sera. I Don't know any others, those are just the ones I watched which did have scenes where the men forced themselves on the women (I'm sure there's others)

Forced kisses are still used in the K-drama world, and is still thrown out there every now and then. Rare? Hmm I wouldn't say so, it's more frequent than you think.

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@ Mystisith,

I disagree. Not 100% of Kdramas have a Wrist Grab or forced kisses. I have seen adult Kdramas (meaning Kdramas with adult characters) in which there were no forced kisses AND no Wrist Grabs. I was actually surprised, because I expected to see the Wrist Grab, and I kept looking for it, and in some of them (Kdramas), there were none, till the end of the drama. Two Kdramas come to mind, "President" (2010) and Rooftop Prince. Both had love plots and neither had a Wrist Grab nor a forced kiss (though there were kisses in both dramas). So when you say that 100% of Kdramas have either one, it is simply not accurate. I know there are more dramas (because I have seen them), however, I can't think of their names right now.

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True. If someone force-kissed (or man-handled) me in real life, I'm gonna flip some lid and drag his sorry ass to the police station ASAP. I dont care how pretty he is, I'm gonna make everything ugly (FYI, I carry pepper spray and taser everywhere I go. Yes, I am that paranoid)

But this is a drama/writing that we are talking about. As I said previously, what OS did was absolutely wrong but that's exactly what he would do towards OY under that circumstances. I agree with you that forcing oneself upon another person is an act of abuse, but once again: if I was the one who wrote That Winter, I wouldn't change that scene for the world. He's a flawed character from the get-go and his love is not gonna be pretty either. If he's going to let go OY just like that when she walked away, I'm gonna shoot something. Because that's not what OS would do.

And no, I think Noh Hee Kyung did not try romanticize the abuse. There wasn't any background song during the scene, it was full of raw emotion and truthfully, it was a bit uncomfortable to watch.

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This. Exactly.

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People need to understand that this is just a drama. K-dramas, and even Western TV shows, for example, glorify the act of revenge. Taking revenge and going through the lengths of lying, stealing blood samples and DNA from labs, hijacking someone's car, ALL FOR THE SAKE OF JUSTIFIED REVENGE, is painted to be something that looks cool. And drama fans cheer these heroes on. But in real life, would anyone in the right mind do that? They'd get their ass handed to the police, and very few people would say "Oh wow, good for that guy. He did what he could to kill those people who tore apart his family. Good for him for playing God." I highly doubt that. I don't see anyone complaining about main characters breaking the law, killing people, or stealing. Why? Because it makes the story exciting. Because they're doing things that people wouldn't dare to do in reality. It's a STORY. =___=

But even dramas have their limits to not glorify obvious wrong-doings like murder and rape. This is the world we live in now, where media can show whatever violence they can get away with. It depends on whether or not the person who's watching can separate what's acceptable in dramas from what's acceptable in real life. If one is so offended by this measly kiss scene, then I wonder how they watch other TV shows out there that have heroes beheading their enemies, with cool action background music to boot, and therefore painting that image as something courageous. I understand that the majority of the people who didn't like the kiss scene are concerned that some fans will think this force kiss is appropriate. But mind you, a lot of women actually enjoy being dominated by males (or when men take charge). And that's their opinion. Some will find it offensive, some will find it enjoyable. And I'm guessing that's the reason why a lot of Korean viewers are okay with it, and you all need to respect that. It's not that there's something wrong with them, it's just their preference.

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Honestly, the kiss doesn't bother me at all. It's tells me what the characters are going through. I feel that by hugging her, so forcefully even, its saying, despite all that, all the complications, the circumstances, the deception, he loved her, that there is this love and care and concern and affection between the two of them…the kiss, he did it because he loves her, and he wanted to show her, or show himself, that she loves him too. Which was proven when she responded, first by not struggling anymore, then by responding to the kiss, by the slightest return of the kiss(she did!, watch it!)……which, though soo knows it, that young loves him right back, still surprise him, when young reciprocate the kiss…

Ok, whether its the best choice of action, we can debate, of course, while we are at it, right off the bat, he probably shouldnt masquerade as her brother.

But soo's motivation i think is that the writer meant that he KNOWS young loves him. If i am young, and i feel the same for soo as i read young does, well, honestly, i wouldnt hold the entire episode against soo.

To me, that scene says a lot about what the characters are feeling..

And i love the show!

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I second that. I didnt find the kiss scene disturbing either.

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Thanks Heads2 for providing this forum. I don't agree sometimes with some of your interpretations, but I do enjoy you humor. I look forward to your take on this whole story when it ends.

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the good thing about the negative press on the scene is – it made me watch it over and over again..and i realized that the scene is absolutely crucial. Firstly, Young kissed Soo back. Significantly, it’s the first time Young kissed Soo, and Soo realized it as well, that’s the look on his face when he pulled back right after Young returned the kiss.

Also, of course the context is – Soo kissed her because he KNOWs she loved him. She has told him that just in that day 2 times, in the video, and in the cabin.

And from Young’s perspective, how can she not kissed him back? This is the guy whose kiss she can’t forget. This is the guy whose kiss she kept remembering. And these are the pair of lips that she touched and jolted her.

And this is the first time that they are acknowledging their love and feelings for each other (as man and woman) in a physical way. They have never held hands, hugged or kissed with mutually romantic feelings before, because they couldn’t, and Young stopped all that once she felt the feelings. And now, its totally understandable that all the pent up angst ends up in this scene.

And the kiss for Young is tragic – the moment she acknowledge her feelings for him, is also the moment she needs to acknowledge she needs to leave him because of what happened.

I think the last part where she told him why she is so angry with him, and that she loved him, he must feel so bad for making her hurt so much, because the hurt doubles when you loved the person who hurts you. Young is not even as angry at Sec Wang, as she is to Soo. I mean, there was no accusation or yelling at Wang, who left her blind!

I LOVED THE SCENE. the writer is brilliant.

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Waiting for Wed. & Thur..

I haven't watch Kdrama for years, but I got hook with this drama TWTWB.

SHK .. fighting!

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way to read that kissing scene wrong. it's not about sexuality/rape. yes it is violent in a way but it is intended that way. for us to feel uncomfortable but not be able to look away. it is exactly how i imagined two fuck-ups like these characters would act. i love this show! can't wait for the next ep!

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When is episode 14 coming out!?
This show is really really good and ur percpective of it is interesting

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Flawed characters justify flawed actions. Just like what I've always said, characters breathe their own lives. As to whether their actions will gratify or displease us, nothing can be done, so lets just watch.

People tend to veer away from something that disturb them so let them hang on to their discomfort. But for us who are willing to be with the characters til the end, sharing their happiness and pain, lets enjoy the series until it concludes.

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KISS: keep it simple, stupid. don't complicate things, people. the kiss was like that because the situation called for it. it is how the character felt at that moment. you don't need to argue over it.

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right poleng :)

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IMO TWTWB is a masterpiece. I'm amazed at how the writer has managed to portray 2 characters, both so damaged by their abandonment as children, walking a thin line between deceipt and trust. The "forced kiss" scene sums up the overpowering attraction between them, and the inevitable tragedy of their inablility to truly love another human being in a simple straightforward manner. As the audience, we sit in a "god-like" position, seeing the motives and changes in OS and Young, but to demand that the writer characterize their relationship with something other than another tragic misstep is asking for this drama to be something other than the tragedy it is. At the end of the scene, Young does not demand that this be the end, but asks if it is. The characters and we the audience are left wondering if too much water has gone under the bridge for things to ever be good between them. I can't imagine a better way for a writer to bring us to this point.

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I don't know what i find more disturbing.
The fact that soo forced himself onto young, or the fact that people aren't as repulsed when they see oh soo beating up the doctor. Or manhandling secretary wang.
That last scene was uncomfortable for me tbh but what makes things more uncomfortable is the blatant realization of double standards and push for equality, when really, alot of these comments seems contradicting.
Im not going to go further to spark more feud but just put yourselves in the story and more importantly, in the characters, and their motivations. Don't depict this from your reality and how you make of it, because in the end, it's a k-drama. You will be disappointed.

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And i think someone should make a gif about how many times Soo has been slapped. Seems like their all lining up.
Young, Wang, And Lawyer Jang all in the same week.
Meanwhile.. people are thinking "Oh, he deserved it."
Or.. "We see slaps all the time in k-drama. Therefore, justified."
Smh.

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For me the big difference is Soo was attacking people he disliked when he hit the doctor and manhandled Wang.

But he loves Young. And yet he attacked her. (Used physical force to do something she didn't want done.) I think that's why the scene is more shocking and repulsive to me. Because he was betraying the person he loved.

(I was bothered by the extent of the violence he used against the doctor. I wasn't bothered by his manhandling Wang, though. She'd hit him several times and he was holding her back from hitting him again. He wanted to do more, but he kept it at the defensive level. So I actually gave him points for that.)

I feel like I should also add, none of the above struck me as out of character for Soo.

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For it was the extent of his violence towards the doctor, as you say. If he had hit the doctor only once, fine, I wouldn't be that disturbed. But he REALLY beat up the guy. We weren't shown "result" of his beating but considering how long it lasted, doctor had to be in a pretty bad condition. And I would say that it IS much worse to deliberately and severely injure somebody than forcefully kiss somebody even if you love the one you force your kiss upon.

What is worse it really makes Soo pretty scary person. I don't believe a SECOND that there are people who only use violence against other people but never against their loved ones (unless we're talking about police etc. who do it ONLY because it's their job and not because they actually want to do it). A person who beats up another person is much more likely to abuse his/her spouse than a non-violent person. And in any case, violence is disgusting. So Soo forcing his kiss is only a continuation of his character: he's a violent person and reacts violently especially when he's desperate. So there's nothing strange that he would react violently when Young pushes him into a desperate situation (no matter that he's responsible for the situation, actually).

But still, beating up another person... Uh. THAT was uncomfortable. Really uncomfortable. I'll take 10 forced kisses instead of that any day.

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i can see that most comments here are judgmental of the last 2 mins of this episode. and it's laughable actually. i don't mean to offend some of you guys, but, haven't you seen the bigger picture for that kiss scene? the story needs it whether you people like it or not. it is necessary as that moment emphasizes the emotional struggles both characters are containing within themselves.

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Im a fan of poleng.. ^^ haha

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Reading through this recap and discussion was very helpful. When "that" scene was occurring, I was thoroughly uncomfortable and angry with Soo's idiotic behavior. I'm glad this huge and (mostly) civil discussion occurred, so that all characters and viewpoints could be examined.

Soo is an antihero and has been from day one. We are not supposed to support all of his actions, but rather question and call him on his crap. He is flawed, jaded, desperate and brutish. These characteristics do not excuse his actions, but they allow us to understand WHY he did them.

I am very glad that the show didn't try to romanticize the situation and that Young seems to have called an end to their relationship following the forced kiss. I also agree with all the comments that we should wait for the next episode before crucifying Soo. There are 3 eps to go, and still time for the show and Soo to redeem their actions, at least in some small measure.

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I must admit it: I love this show and the leads. But I hate the fact that the women in Korean dramas are almost every time not realistic, not wise and act like dolls! How many women writers are there in Korean TV? Youngie was so cute, strong and wise until episode 12. What the hell happened to the character suddenly? Why do you make us love the personality development of the man leads and be disappointed in the women leads every time, dear drama industry? But.. I still love this show, I know Youngie can do it better. (a drama fan from Germany) :-)

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Soo is a character who could care less what others think of his actions. That is why on the first episode, Jin So Ra said Soo is cruel. The kiss scene is uncomfortable to watch. It made me cringe but again with Soo, he has the tendency to do things that suits him. When Young slaps him, that is when you see his reaction changed. You can see fury, desperation, fear and him panicking. That is why he forcefully kiss her the first time. And then did it again. He did look shocked and guilty when he released her. I wonder how many "takes" they need to do to get this raw emotion. Probably just once. In such scenes, you can't rehearse. I think the actors did a great job in that scene. I wasn't expecting a romantic kiss so it doesn't surprise me when I see that raw kiss.

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this is not a romcom. this is a heavy drama bordering on the tragic. let's not be turned off because a character is staying true to his nature. he is a conman first and foremost. just because he has developed a conscience and has mellowed since he met her does not mean that he has become a completely different person.

young is a character that is complex, dark, naive and sweet but she is not a victim. this infamous scene is actually a brilliant culmination of the inevitable clash between two persons who inside are actually quite similar.

let's all stay tuned and hope that the series ends with a great finality. not rushed, not sweet, not a tearjerker- just true to what it has started.

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I'm always amazed at the uproar a forced kiss can cause, not because I find it morally justifiable, but because in that huge ocean of morally disputable behaviours that is the world of Korean melodrama, a forced kiss is the only one stirring such vehement reactions. I can't help but wonder why.

When I enter the realm of melo - I seldom do it and basically always regret it - I am fully aware that I am going to be confronted with abuses on children, jealousy often resulting in murder, mafia-like revenge, greed, nonsensical harted, social indifference and the horror list could go on. However, I have never read a heated debate on any of the above.

That a scene is disturbing should ADD to the value of the narrative, not deprive it of its intrinsic quality. If the aim of the writer is to present us with a disturbing scenario, then it must indeed disturb us, not make us squeal in delight.

I did not enjoy that forced kiss either. It made me cringe, not for any moral reason, but for the way it was enacted, for its raw shooting. I am ready to accept its narrative reason though, and go on with this plot. My doubts about the merits of this drama lie elsewhere, mostly in Young's twisted psychology. I've read someone here rightly stressing how Young's behaviour borders on cruelty. Are we justifying her because she's suffered? She hasn't suffered more than Oh Soo, for that matter. So, either I look for a justification for every single character in this plot, or I look for none and take these people for what they are. Let's not operate double standards.

Also, I wish the concept os sexual harassment weren't so easily introduced into a discussion of a work of fiction, be it a drama, a movie or a book, UNLESS it's the centre of the plot. This is not Tess of the d'Ubervilles. As I said, the drama originates from a couple of highly disturbing premises (children abandonement and abuse, organized criminality and police connivement, beating people to a pulp and stabbing among others), and the forced kiss is nothing more than another narrative aspect, wrong or right.
Writer and director managed to make us cringe when and where we were supposed to? Bravo to them, then.

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