This image is called howDareSheBreakHisHeart.gif on my computer. Because, how…DARE…she???? He knows the exact date of her confession and has counted the days since then. 🥺
Jae-kyung is also the most adorable drunk…and we all know that he faces a large number of competitors for this prize in K-dramaland. The images you’ll find in the comments are not ALL of Ha Joon. I promise.
This DWY episode 11-12 gif geyser is especially dedicated to @hopefulromantic.
Always coming through with the dialogue comparison gifs 👌👏
This is one of the rare dramas I’ll rewatch (though FFing through some scenes) while waiting for episodes, and the repeated/similar phrases is something I’ve really liked noticing.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who rewatches this. Yes, this is still airing, but I end up going to last week’s episodes and going thru the cute scenes lol.
Y’all should learn to make gifs! Then you get to rewatch to decide your clips…then watch each clip like 10 times!!
I grant you sometimes this feels like work, but others—you get to do the red hand scenes from the early episodes or my KISSKISSKISS super-cut where you get to watch all the little kiss scenes and re-montage them. 😉
The number of references to this little scene on this week’s weecap was intense! It was quite cute, indeed. Shin-yu really cares for this little drunkard. As if I have right to judge people for drinking…apparently @elinor too 🙂
I admit I wavered in #11, I did. But I am back in Team Giraffe. And this scene is part of it. Frankly, he’s been a jerk to her all the way till now. In #12 we get a glimpse of how he might be good to her.
Thank you #TeamGiraffe. I knew I’d find my way back. If I am ever led astray again, please hold my hand and lead me back to the long legs. I’ll do the same because wavering is guaranteed; #CultOtter is powerful indeed. @sonai@DncingEmma@kurama@vienibenmio
PS Did you read @elinor description of those fierce, slippery things? How can they compare with our majestic creatures born with manner legs they so kindly lend to other species? Otters would eat our spineless (literally and metaphorically) little octopus.
PPS @CecilieDK I know you are TeamDog but we are willing to give you honorary membership until the show remembers it’s mixed up it’s animal metaphors.
Thanks! I love giraffes, too.
Maybe he is a so-called “Great Dane”, what for some reason is called its French name in Danish, “Grand Danois”, not “Stor Dansker”. But you know, it is large, and it has spots. And it is a good dog.
Hah! Just looked up personality of that dog. It’s Shin-yu for sure.
Was just looking at the BTS and apparently this whole sequence was an adlib! I will forgive Jo-Boah a million cutesies for this one. (I like her in general, but her aegyo is tad ott)
Yayyy!!!🥰 Thank you, Seon-ha! I love that through your eyes (*your excellent gifs*), I get to see a very different drama – one that remained charming, goofy, and fun.
My Fan Wall, my rules. Na-yeon deserves her own post. She’s no goddamned “culprit.” What a badass move. Sure, I wish her intentions were better, but at least she has her own intentions and acts on them.
After having to look up two words in my dictionary, I have to agree. *notes down for future usage *
(It’s really sad when you realize that you are kinda fluent in another language, but will never really be really eloquent. Maybe I’ll have to do an “English for eloquence” course in the future… 🤔)
Whilst I also collect unusual words like gems, I don’t believe they are necessary for eloquent writing. In fact, they often bog down prose, and instead of impressing readers, end up confounding them. Of course, as another non-native speaker, I may be deluding myself, but I don’t want you (or me!) feeling sad about this.
PS I’m not saying that was the case with Seon-ha at all. I couldn’t have said it better about Hong-Jo. 👏🏽
Oh, agree 100% on this. Both FLs in the early episodes were so much more complex, but HJ still gets some flashes of quick wit (“cell phone has legs”) amidst the aegyo and self-imperilment, while poor NY has been shunted off to classic unredeemed jealous hag territory. I’m disappointed with the writing on that score, not with either actor’s performance.
Because of intersectional feminism. A rich woman who has been a bully and has remained vile, isn’t one which I consider in need of defence and sympathy. She is far far less oppressed and much more empowered than Hongjo. The End.
To which I reply, “because of intersectional feminism.” A woman who knows her power lies in her genetic heritage (out of her control) and her inherent sexuality (something given, but also something partially within her active control)…that woman uses both natural affordances to her advantage to live her most prosperous and safest life.
She has no direct power over her surroundings, but can identify the levers that move the needle. Na-yeon knows what she wants–to be free to act according to her own wishes–and she knows what she can and cannot control to get to that position. These actions include hurting other women–I don’t condone that, but understand that her need for self-preservation in a world entirely controlled my men who care almost NOTHING about her (including SHIN-FUCKING-YU) leads her to this place.
I will defend her almost to the ground, while recognizing that she is the “villain” or the “culprit” to others…
I agree she’s a bit bland, but as K-drama heroins goes, I get why people would like her. Until ep. 10 she didn’t act like an idiot and seemed to me to be, while traumatised by growing up bullied and too alone (and that happens to real people, bullying really destroys people) she is kind, resourceful and witty. So totally nice to be around, if you get the chance.
I mean, her loneliness. and lack of confidence that people will like her, combined with a common sense that says that actually, she is not such a bad person as to deserve all the hate she receives, that makes her a very real person for me.
It may seem very “Every boyband song about a girl who has yet to find out she’s the centre of the world and it’s YOU”, but I know people who easily show their feelings (sweet autism spectrum) and people whose self-confidence have been shook deeply by bullying, so I feel that girl. And as long as she wasn’t regressing to a “can’t do anything, walks blindly into danger” mode, I could honestly root for her. That’s why her walking into that hole is so annoying.
Oooh yes! I don’t usually wear bold colors, but I like it very much in coats! Pops of color in winter, what’s not to love?
Btw: “Her private life” can be very persuasive in selling the “please only wear bold colors, thank you” style. I might have been an PPL victim there. 🤷♀️
“Try to make it” as in sewing yourself?!?! Kudos if you do, I can only manage shortening a pant leg (if forced). 👏👏👏
I feel NY is seeking fulfillment outside, which jerk CEO commented on. And the emancipation of clingy SFL has been done before and has trope status, for the reference of our writers. But sigh… 4 more hours might not be enough.
Yes, she knows she is empty and is looking for something outside to fill the void. It’s not gonna work. But I’ve been working on that same problem for 30+ years and it might be that it never works for realz? So, you go Na-yeon!! 😉
This is kinda interesting for me. I have really small hands (like, children’s glove size), and I’m always kinda jealous of people with really big hands. Why? I play a string instrument, and the smaller your hands, the harder it is to play. I keep seeing Rowoon’s hands and thinking: boy could play double bass, no worries. *sighs*
Look, you’ve not seen him recently unless you’ve clicked. So, it’s time now for some proud-ass Jae-kyung. LOOK at how happy he is that Shin-you literally has to eat his nasty thoughts and words about how good this holiday food would be based on appearances. If the writers could see their way clear eventually to make these two become really good friends, I’d squee so LOUDLY, y’all could actually hear me through the Interwebs.
Emma, if that were the case, we’d all BE FOR IT. But it’s not reasonable to use your magic wand for Shin-yu and Jae-kyung any more than for any other pair of human beings. The frustration here is that NO ONE is allowed to express their real desire.
Twas the only highlight of TWOE episode 1 for me. But I just don’t see it here. I am also more frustrated that the show hasn’t explored the existing potential with our OTP. How in the world is the red hand and the first imaginary kiss more sensual than anything we have seen since?
@indyfan: My wish for a possible BL loveline is only based on conjecture. I know the evidence is not strong in its favour.
My brain has let me down with TWOE. Which drama?
Sorry. The Worst of Evil. I’ve paused it at Ep 1. I’m not sure it’s for me. But at the end, I did so want JCW and WJH to lean closer just a wee more and kiss. And I absolutely think that show wants us to go there.
Ahhhh. Thanks. I hope no queer-baiting takes place and if they do go there, that it is done sincerely and thoughtfully. Our screens might explode from all the hotness though LOL.
This is the thread that keeps giving. Amazing. My estimation of JCW shot up (tho perhaps not enough to watch Worst of Evil).
OTH my estimation of ATCY actors and director fell after reading this article. However, Google translate might have led me astray: https://www.joynews24.com/view/1631572
Can other Beanies help? It’s their reaction to holding hands I think.
I remember reading this article. The over-reaction to mere hand holding seems to be an (inept, ill-advised) attempt to reinforce the (hetro)sexuality of two successful male lead actors(!).
Thank you for the better translation Cera. And I think you’re spot on regarding the reasoning. I’ll still credit them for the lovely rep on a mainstream series that many actors wouldn’t have done, but I can’t say I’m not a little disappointed.
At least in the drama they showed a beautiful blooming relationship between two males which was not played off for laughs. However, to reassure the IRL “female” fans we have this narrative of:
a. the male actors are very good friends IRL, therefore they had good chemistry,
b. they may be friends but were embarrassed to hold hands! 👬
@indyfan@seeker
I think both should get a little credit for doing the scene given the lingering homophobia in their industry and SK but it is a lot of pearl clutching for sure. Their brands!
We also know that despite many positive cultural and legal changes in some western countries, homophobia continues to be deeply embedded in some parts of their communities. Here is to a time when it is no longer the case anywhere in this big wide world.
Absolutely right Emma, to do such a love story on Netflix for a world wide audience would not have been an easy decision.
I doubt the story would have gathered such interest or even have been so impactful had it been some obscure actor (however good the performance).
Having Rowoon elevated the storyline because of his IRL “brand”.
I don’t blame the production to trying to reassure the world wide female fan following of both male actors. Yes we all hope and pray for a world where there is no need for such reassurances.
Both Ji Chang-wook and Kang Ha Neul have addressed “Thrill Me” rather matter of factly, with no apologies to their world wide female fans, which perhaps may be slightly more than the ATCN pair. 🤣
I hate drunk scenes (I hated the one with Hong-jo drunkenly telling the banshees about spells in ep. 12) but even I have to admit he is freakin’ adorable here.
Yeah, totally counting the days. I like that the show is allowing months to pass while events and feelings develop. It’s not that the moon is always full, it’s one full moon after another with a suitable amount of time in between.
I think I have posted the entire scene of Ha Joon “drunk,” just cut into pieces over the course of this post. I don’t want to glorify being that drunk, although I have certainly been that drunk, but…I’m weak. So weak.
It’s rare that someone even close my age gets a glamour shot in these dramas. So, this gets posted!! Did you know that this actress is 11 years older than the actor playing Manager Gong? As it happens, she’s also older than the real Gong Yoo 😂
This is the longer scene between Gong and Ma about how love lasts for some and not for others…and it’s where we learn definitively that she is his first love from a time prior to her (now-failed) marriage. He’s been waiting for her this whole time. She behaves all flippant about her relationships, but really, I feel these two are sort of stuck between traditional ways of coupling (like from the 1980s SHEESH) and the ones they see around them in the present. I am growing fond of the way that these characters are developing–but I don’t expect my pleasure to go on much longer. It’ll get maudlin and cheesy soon enough. Boo.
I’d like this Mrs Robinson to find one of her own age, rather. But I’d like her to get a close relationship with that young lawyer, one that would make her husband proper jealous, and make him notice that he isn’t even a friend to his wife. That he has a long way to go be worthy of being a friend to her.
And it’s not that I totally condone her having a new love. I am just not too crazy about your new love being the same age as your children.
I had the same thought watching this scene! It’s so rare for characters older than, hm, 35? to get glamour shots like this but this queen managed to get one and own it. In the words of Lucille, Bluth, “Good for her!”
OK. Shin-yu, for a change. In this scene, his glance reads “longing.” But I put it to you, that once I made this clip, that’s actually not the affect here. What say you all? What does this expression convey to you?
As soon as that scene started I’d forgotten the cuteness of the previous one (which I’d loved!) completely. And his running back into his house the next morning, I laughed so hard
Can I share this with Hacja? To any snark, I want to add my sincerity. I loved this. No, not the bloody stabbing, but look at their faces. I felt it, I really did, the love, pain, regret, horror. Whereas I was not feeling much for the show at all recently.
You do have to admit that, looked at a certain way it could very well be about that. However, let me offer a (semi)-serious analysis of that scene IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS SHOW. It is clear that since this depicts what is presumably, the one sexual experience the couple had, that’s why the curse prevents their present day reincarnations from enjoying physical intimacy, and that’s why they go to bed together wearing heavy sweaters.
I realize that this is probably one of the few points of cleverness of this show, so I don’t want to be too harsh about this theme. (Actually, as I’ve said, I liked the way it handled the love spell conceit as well) Of course sex as a kind of death is a cliche–although one phrase you’ll never hear me say around my household is “la petite mort” mainly because we don’t talk sex, and certainly don’t talk about sex in French! but also because I have always denied the connection suggested by that phrase. It simply doesn’t match with (sorry as always for my 1970s references) the joy of the experience when its with someone you love.
But that aside, now you’ve started me on one of my obsessive issues with kdramas. Sorry, @attiton! I know you’ve heard this before! I generally love how shows in every kdrama genre handle female leads (though in romances, second female leads are often terrible.) So that’s primarily why I watch them. But that motivation is why it bothers me that kdramas are more likely to depict (and Dramabeans commentators are more likely to enjoy) violence, or violence as a metaphor for sex, than they are depictions of sex as a consequence of love. As I’ve said many times, I don’t need to see nudity, I don’t need to see the activity itself, I just want an acknowledgement of it as a legitimate part of a relationship.
For this show, no one is bothered by the scene you beautifully captured (nor should they be, as indyfan says, it is without a doubt the most moving scene in the show and really standout in terms of cinematography) but if the show’s theme had been different, and Shin-yu and Hong-Jo had been “allowed” by the curse to have sex, had even been shown to be partially disrobed, under sheets, there would have been at least 3-4 commentators complaining about the “gratuitous” sex between 30 year old adults in love. (But we know that would be very unlikely to be shown, anyway.)
I have a number of thoughts, and will probably respond twice because the longer thought is being stubborn in formation.
This first one is just one to note that in this particular case, I’m hearing more Beanies complaining about how “no adults in love just get into bed fully-clothed as much as these two do” than I am hearing them say, “gosh I’m so glad there’s no gratuitous sex” (and then, by a tenuous extension, the assumption that these same folks will not complain if/when Hong-jo and Shin-yu finally do get down to it).
Indeed, I’m also with a recent commentator in remembering that there was a moment (fully-clothed, in bed) when Shin-yu said, “If you don’t stop talking, Hong-jo, I’m going to make a move on you, and you’re not going to be awake to see the sunrise that’s so important to you.” It was, in its own way, a threat. So, to your point, @hacja, sex is not something that these two can “simply do,” but I also think right now, the Dramabeans commentariat is more with you than against you about being disappointed in that state of affairs.
Very interesting, @attiton I posted a completely respectful, very inexplicit response to your comment, and I got a message I never have seen before “you posted an inappropriate word.” What was it– s-x? Proving my point?
Anyway, what I said in my banned comment was that I do not at all blame Dramabeans commentators for their preferences. Its not my place to judge what people find acceptable or not. Its just a trend that I see in mainstream pop culture, where the depiction of graphic violence is more accepted than not so graphic lovemaking. Part of this could be positive–the desire to avoid exploitation of women characters. Also, for women viewers, sadly, in terms of real life male behavior, it could be that they have more direct experience of violent personal encounters (trying to avoid the inappropriate word here) than the brutal and bloody stabbings shown in many kdramas, and so they would rather not want watch the former. Also, intimacy between real people, even if non explicit, can be more uncomfortable to watch than CGI generated heads being blown off. So these could be totally legitimate reasons for not wanting any suggestive scenes.
As far as this show, I know the point is that the associations of violence with their past romantic intimacy are what is preventing the main couple from consummating their affair, and it could be the 3 scenes of them heavily clothed in bed are driving this point home. It didn’t play like that to me–it seemed more cutesy, but maybe I’m underestimating this show!
Will this reply be forbidden? Let me press “send” and see!
@hacja Sicarius recently posted their research on the words that you’re not allowed to use in the Dramabeans universe. You may be well-served to know that your reference to Sp*ng*B*b (a necessary citation that I feel quite sure you were using quite appropriately to make your worthy point) was the word that was disallowed: https://www.dramabeans.com/activity/p/1457805/
hacja, that one with the inappropriate word is something we are all getting (or many are) and it is not possible to know what triggers it.
I mean, I got that message after a post where the worst word I could think of was “dibs”.
And I don’t swear much, but I have at least written things “darn”, and also some words with * in’em.
A short response to your long, thoughtful posts @hacja: No, the show does not delay their intimacy due to the legacy of the curse. Well, mostly, as we did have Shin-yu hesitate now and then worrying about the reappearance of the red hand. It is mostly done for that cutesy effect. And forget anything below the sheets, this applies to any physical connection, including kisses (not counting the smoking dream kiss).
It makes perfect sense though because as you and others said, the adults act as children and this feels like a tween romance (unless said tweens are on HBO or something). The result, a rather lacklustre OTP. I also fault Hong-Jo’s characterization, but that’s another discussion, albeit related.
Yes, I want to assure you that I really do think that this image can be seen as a violent playing-out of a moment of castration, followed by a scene of visceral frustration on the part of both parties about the fact it has happened. I was careful with the clip I chose…others weren’t so obviously about this.
I’m also finding it fascinating that there’s a low-key debate going on in the comments—like the drone of a bagpipe—about whether or not Joseon Shin-yu actually stabbed Joseon Hong-jo, or whether the scene we see is him having run up to her after her being stabbed (or stabbing herself) and simply man-handling the grip of the sword.
This could “matter” in the context of our interpretive metaphor.
Or maybe it doesn’t.
Because maybe this is all a diversion. There is actually one character in this drama who is interested in having sex for the joyous, pleasurable reasons focused on human connection and support you specify, it seems to me.
It’s Team Manager Gong.
He has been waiting his entire life—sexless—for his first love to come back to him, as my hidden secondary gif above demonstrates. He’s the one who derives (wants to derive—and does eventually derive) joyous meaning from sex. Malicious Ma (I’m ignoring this misogyny for you, @hacja ) is shown trying thwart him in his “romanticism” by behaving “like a millennial,” teasing him about asking if he could hug her, and pushing his heartfelt attempts to respect her to the side. But he remains sincere. Truly sincere. He writes PowerPoint slides to woo her…because he knows they’ll work (they’re working). I’d venture to say that while people look down on him as being “always alone,” he knows that he’d never be satisfied with anyone else but someone that he loves as dedicatedly as Ma.
I really hope she meets him where he is. I have hope (shown in that gif) that she will…and will derive her own half of the joy from doing so.
@attiton Got to say, as usual that I really enjoyed your “diversion.” But, with all due respect, you are mistaken. Its true that Team Manager Gong was naked in Ma Eun Yeong’s bed, and presumably they slept together. But we don’t know for sure. Have we ever seen them even hug? He could have gotten drunk and stripped in her presence. He might have desire, but we don’t know how much he provides enjoyment. Eun-Yeong has been tolerant of him, but not exactly blown away. (By the way, can I seriously pay tribute to the beauty and acting ability of Lee Bong-ryun? Like many so called character actors she is so often slotted into these similar roles and made up in a way that makes her less attractive, and yet she is always appealing.)
Anyway, back to the theme: We do know that the evil developer, whose name I can’t recall, is virile enough to satisfy the physical needs of even the voracious Na-yeon. Therefore, there really is only one man in this drama that is not plagued by the “curse” that prevents Shin-yu and Jan-Kyung and multiple others from being suitable romantic partners. Now, is it a coincidence that he is evil? Maybe not! I’m thinking this show is almost puritanical in its attitude toward love. That’s why I predict at best a bittersweet ending, with physical “sweetness” denied to all, and some sort of tear-jerking supposedly supplying gratification to us emotionally needy viewers.
I’d like you to reconsider the tone of that adjective as a value statement on the appropriateness of any/all active female sexual desire.
Moreover, if Na-yeon were satisfied by Chaebol Construction Dude, she’d feel satisfied. She clearly doesn’t. She’s still casting around, looking for what will fill the void in her heart.
You and I might both agree about what that is. But right now neither Shin-yu nor CCD are that soul.
@indyfan Before I agree with you about the reason for their delay in intimacy, I have to see a smoking kiss that is not a dream.. As far as the OTP, don’t blame Hong-Jo. She wasn’t the one who chose the bear hoodie!
Returning to your earlier comment, I suspect the strongest emotional beats will come from the violence (just look at them in that flashback gif!) than any physical intimacy. Happy to be proven wrong.
(And I assume you mean smoking real kisses in *this* drama cos Seon-ha just served us up a particular fine kiss gif from Parallel World.)
I didn’t see that, so yes its Behind your touch. But you bring up an interesting point. I haven’t watched many Chinese dramas because I can’t stand the censorship and they are way too long and repetitive, but in the romances I’ve watched, even though they make Korean shows seem amazingly gender-enlightened, they do show more kissing and occasionally have the couples sleeping together. I guess it reflects the prediliction of the what I’m positive is an all male censorship authority!
I understand the barrier erected by censorship. (Tho in my case, it’s often the quality of many c-dramas as well.) It plays out in interesting ways in Parallel World. The unusual representation of the seedy side of life in the western provinces is permitted (given how the state justifies its repression there) but the critique of closed, authoritarian states led by corrupt elites is cut out or modified by a ham-fisted story frame to remind folks this is just fantasy, nothing to think too deeply about.
At the same time Hacja, the critique can still be read between the lines, which is sometimes the only form of resistance under these conditions. And it is also one of the most feminist dramas I have seen. It would not have passed the censors if it critiqued patriarchy overtly. Instead it simply centers the drama around some of the most empowered women I have seen. They form friendships (yes, with clothing and subtext that might please male censors :). They lead a gender-egalitarian team (no questions asked). They let the men deal with their own trauma. And the finale promises us a showdown between two powerful women.
Don’t get me wrong. It is not a great drama, all kinds of issues. But it’s a fun* drama that hasn’t yet insulted our intelligence. Add a swoony, affectionate OTP and short episodes, and some of us are having a ball.
*Fun, if you’re the kind of person who enjoyed cheesy SyFy 90s/aughts shows.
@indyfan If @attiton could indulge me one more long post (if not, just delete). In fact, this will be so long I’ll split it into two, so it could require two deletions! First, let me stress that this is my own personal response, I am not suggesting anyone should have the reaction I have to Chinese dramas. Nor am I saying its a matter of deepest principle for me–obviously I have watched cdramas in the past, and might again, although I’m not tempted by this one primarily because of my tastes in genre and its length.
So keeping in mind this is my response, not suggesting it should hold sway for anyone else: whenever I’ve seen a Chinese drama with strong women characters (and for me, there have been very few) I don’t think “oh, that’s subversive.” I think instead: what would happen in real life if this character took a stand that actually threatened power? Not just loss of job (what still might happen in the U.S. sadly) but imprisonment with sexual violence as torture. I’m a big fan of women’s sports, and the “disappearance” of globally prominant tennis star Peng Shuai after she accused the Chinese official of rape always runs through my mind–its a kneejerk response, I know, but I can’t help it.
Needless to say, that thought hurts my escapist enjoyment a little. But again I want to stress that is just MY response, others might just as legitimately relish the strong woman character and not make that automatic leap to real life. I’ve always had trouble maintaining a proper distance from fictional scenarios.
I really hope the Cdrama you mention with strong feminist characters is subversive of the government’s efforts to suppress women’s and LGBTQ rights, so that makes it valuable and significant. But, I can’t help thinking, and again, this is MY response, that we’re not dealing with simpleminded censorship. Surely Chinese government censors are lot more sophisticated than I am in reading a Chinese drama. They know that the drama will have an international audience as well as a domestic one. They certainly can see that the drama has strong female characters and therefore, they want the drama to have that–otherwise they would suppress it.
That would normally be great, and one could say “fantastic that the government supports women’s rights!” But in the circumstances of the government’s active and actual repression of women’s speech and protest, its like the U.S. putting out global propaganda films in the mid-twentieth century highlighting the opportunities provided African Americans, when in real life, violent discrimination was more likely.
There are, as a certain Dramabeans commentator always points out in defense of China, many forms of propaganda. But official government propaganda is the most pernicious in my opinion, mainly because of the state and military power with which it can be enforced, and especially in the Internet/computer age, with high tech surveillance tools at government’s disposal.
So I also hope that all Chinese dramas with feminist messages, are widely watched everywhere, including China, and that their message becomes not just propaganda but reality. I can’t be comfortable watching them until a regime change (which probably won’t happen in my lifetime, sad to say), but that is just my hangup. More power to smart and enlightened viewers like you and attrition who do!
@hacja No need to fear deletion from this censor!! And also obviously there’s no need to set aside deeply held beliefs. @elinor called me “high-minded” on another stream the other day, but I can provide definite counter-evidence to that claim here. My enjoyment of Parallel World stems almost entirely from watching the steamy kisses, scenes of the OTP sitting on walls holding one another tenderly while talking about their feelings for each other, and the relatively blatant bisexual undertones. Oh, and the rooster-based projectile weaponry. Can’t forget that.
[Had to retype this because I wasn’t quite clear about something that (IMO) required clarity—but in the meantime you also stole my joke about attiton/attrition!! So funny. My screen name is so hard for computers—and for people too! You might even think I designed it that way to mess with everyone’s head! 🫢]
@hacja As someone whose country is sliding into authoritarianism—of which censorship, including self censoring, is part and parcel—I value your stance and have no desire to quarrel with it. Further, by bringing up our resident right wing Beanie, well, game, set and match to you.
Yet, while I do believe Chinese censorship is more sophisticated than, let’s say, the hammer (ofc) of yore, I am not entirely convinced that allowing a rare representation of empowered women is part of a deceptive strategy to mislead the world about their suppression of feminists and the true conditions of women on the ground.
This blip of a representation in a not very popular drama cannot alter the fact that the mass of c-dramas are rife with women adhering to traditional roles or those that operate within a narrow, non-threatening version of feminism—which is why so many foreign conservatives continue to uphold c-dramas as an ideal.
I do not want to repeat again what I said, but PW remains to me an example of implicitly critiquing patriarchy as much as is permitted within the box Chinese creators are held. And given the treatment of Peng Shuai, Lü Pin, the Five, etc, I am sympathetic toward those who resist from within the system, albeit in small and possibly inconsequential, fruitless ways.
And I imagine if I was a Chinese woman, seeing an alternative way of being on screen that may not be possible in life would still be a beacon of hope. Heck, given the poor track record of female representation (among other marginalized communities) within science fiction and fantasy the world over, this speaks to many of us. Of course, you may counter with the limits of token representation, and you would be right about that. I too rail against it when we stop/slow our work at that. But when you aren’t even permitted that much, it is not nothing either.
I am also well aware my analysis could be incorrect, and I risk falling prey to the propaganda machine. But for now, I will cautiously approach c-dramas on a case-by-case basis. And thanks to your reminders, I will remain vigilant to the risk. Luckily for me, the possible exceptions remain rare so the risk is minimal.
I behaved, mostly, today. I look forward to seeing what trouble you caused by my own morning time…
I am caught up on Parallel World. I am ready to discuss whatever! I have 10 gifs or so queued up. I’d like to think I have more to offer than that, but I do have that, at very least.
With luck your coffee is tasty, not because it will keep you from stirring up trouble, but because I hope your coffee is tasty.
Ack! I could post a dozen more comments here on female characterizations, intersectional feminism and female sexuality but let me hop on over to the PW post for something lighter first thing in the morning. (Prays it’s nothing about ethnic genocide.)
Like I wrote in the review, Jae-Kyung is the only one to blame for this situation, the 27th September is the day he rejected her feelings. So, I’m totally team Girafe. And she couldn’t stick like this on an otter.
Otters are incredibly strong for their size, agile and slippery, fiercer and more aggressive than their cute looks suggest, and really good at twisting, wriggling, and biting their way out of any situation.
Have you ever made a mistake? Did you deserve a second chance to show how you were misled and misguided in your original actions, by demonstrating your apologies through ongoing corrections to your behavior?
True, true. But the recepient of the apology is not required to accept it. Also, she only accepts non-apologies and crummier behavior from reincarnated first loves. 🙄
Of course she’s not. She’s not required to do anything, but I’d love to see her decide to do something on her own for once. I suppose I’ll give her that (that she made a decision on her own terms) in the final scene of episode 12, although I feel confident we’re going to see her go back on that decision pretty darn quickly.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 8:58 AM
This image is called howDareSheBreakHisHeart.gif on my computer. Because, how…DARE…she???? He knows the exact date of her confession and has counted the days since then. 🥺
Jae-kyung is also the most adorable drunk…and we all know that he faces a large number of competitors for this prize in K-dramaland. The images you’ll find in the comments are not ALL of Ha Joon. I promise.
This DWY episode 11-12 gif geyser is especially dedicated to @hopefulromantic.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:02 AM
I’m even somewhat willing to place my Jae-kyung in a less than ideal light. Here, Shin-yu is right and Jae-kyung is…wait a minute, ALSO RIGHT! 😂
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 9:26 AM
The way he stands up on the retaining wall and does the ‘comparing’ gesture over his head!
It’s unfair how appealing Kim Kwon is and it will sting when he inevitably turns into an arrogant thug again.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:15 PM
He has stayed an arrogant thug though!
SP2022
September 30, 2023 at 9:48 AM
Always coming through with the dialogue comparison gifs 👌👏
This is one of the rare dramas I’ll rewatch (though FFing through some scenes) while waiting for episodes, and the repeated/similar phrases is something I’ve really liked noticing.
Loving the gif geyser as always!
Dylan [is enjoying Shogun]
October 3, 2023 at 1:38 PM
I’m glad I’m not the only one who rewatches this. Yes, this is still airing, but I end up going to last week’s episodes and going thru the cute scenes lol.
Seon-ha
October 3, 2023 at 2:47 PM
Y’all should learn to make gifs! Then you get to rewatch to decide your clips…then watch each clip like 10 times!!
I grant you sometimes this feels like work, but others—you get to do the red hand scenes from the early episodes or my KISSKISSKISS super-cut where you get to watch all the little kiss scenes and re-montage them. 😉
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:06 AM
The number of references to this little scene on this week’s weecap was intense! It was quite cute, indeed. Shin-yu really cares for this little drunkard. As if I have right to judge people for drinking…apparently @elinor too 🙂
I’m also willing to put my man in a secondary gif, teasing Hong-jo about being a bear, and stroking his chin adorably.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 10:23 AM
I admit I wavered in #11, I did. But I am back in Team Giraffe. And this scene is part of it. Frankly, he’s been a jerk to her all the way till now. In #12 we get a glimpse of how he might be good to her.
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 10:43 AM
Yeah. Now that I’m well prepared for the charm-canon that is Jaekyung, I won’t waver from the giraffe/puppy. Possibly. Maybe.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:18 PM
Ok. You worried me there. Not that there is anything wrong with liking otters or being one.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 7:01 PM
Thank you #TeamGiraffe. I knew I’d find my way back. If I am ever led astray again, please hold my hand and lead me back to the long legs. I’ll do the same because wavering is guaranteed; #CultOtter is powerful indeed.
@sonai @DncingEmma @kurama @vienibenmio
PS Did you read @elinor description of those fierce, slippery things? How can they compare with our majestic creatures born with manner legs they so kindly lend to other species? Otters would eat our spineless (literally and metaphorically) little octopus.
PPS @CecilieDK I know you are TeamDog but we are willing to give you honorary membership until the show remembers it’s mixed up it’s animal metaphors.
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 1, 2023 at 2:52 AM
Thanks! I love giraffes, too.
Maybe he is a so-called “Great Dane”, what for some reason is called its French name in Danish, “Grand Danois”, not “Stor Dansker”. But you know, it is large, and it has spots. And it is a good dog.
Hah! Just looked up personality of that dog. It’s Shin-yu for sure.
indyfan
October 1, 2023 at 3:17 AM
Ooh, a Great Dane could work. Until #12, I would have thought you had a rather optimistic take on Shin-yu’s personality, but I see potential finally.
DancingEmma
October 1, 2023 at 8:41 AM
Comment was deleted
Semma Vetti
October 3, 2023 at 12:28 PM
Oooh, I was thinking of saying if he is a puppy, he is a great dane puppy!!
Semma Vetti
September 30, 2023 at 9:59 PM
Go team Giraffe!
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 10:48 PM
Welcome to the tribe. Deep in Otter territory, our numbers grow stronger.
Seon-ha
October 1, 2023 at 5:24 AM
Small, but vicious we are. Watch your ankles, you gangly orange scarecrows.
Semma Vetti
October 3, 2023 at 12:31 PM
Thank you! Of course! Not denying otters are adorable at times, still…
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 5:16 PM
I love this gif so much I want to like a few times! Thank you for spending your no doubt precious time on doing these gifs.
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 1, 2023 at 2:10 AM
THanks!
Semma Vetti
October 3, 2023 at 12:35 PM
Was just looking at the BTS and apparently this whole sequence was an adlib! I will forgive Jo-Boah a million cutesies for this one. (I like her in general, but her aegyo is tad ott)
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 4, 2023 at 12:48 AM
🎵🎶❤️”I ate a 1000 octopuses to cling to your leg”❤️🎶🎵
What song is that!?
HopefulRomantic 🦋 Tigermoth 🦆❤️🦆
September 30, 2023 at 9:07 AM
Yayyy!!!🥰 Thank you, Seon-ha! I love that through your eyes (*your excellent gifs*), I get to see a very different drama – one that remained charming, goofy, and fun.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:09 AM
My Fan Wall, my rules. Na-yeon deserves her own post. She’s no goddamned “culprit.” What a badass move. Sure, I wish her intentions were better, but at least she has her own intentions and acts on them.
Here, um, Jae-kyung (surprise!) is scowling at Na-yeon, but I’d like to focus on her here. I really felt for her. I know, I know, I’m alone on this. Maybe y’all are learning a little more about what I’m like IRL?
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 9:30 AM
That’s a big NOPE.
But we like you anyway. Also, her coat is to die for. I may have to go looking for it on the kdrama fashion sites.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:53 AM
But 왜 왜 왜 왜 왜??? I guess what I like is to be on my own hill, defending my territory, alone. Hong-jo’s so anodyne. She’s like pablum. Blech.
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 10:51 AM
After having to look up two words in my dictionary, I have to agree. *notes down for future usage *
(It’s really sad when you realize that you are kinda fluent in another language, but will never really be really eloquent. Maybe I’ll have to do an “English for eloquence” course in the future… 🤔)
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:55 AM
I ran out of quarters using up all my “25-cent words” there, @sonai. Don’t feel too terribly bad. I felt them go by, even as I typed them.
indyfan
October 1, 2023 at 3:04 AM
Whilst I also collect unusual words like gems, I don’t believe they are necessary for eloquent writing. In fact, they often bog down prose, and instead of impressing readers, end up confounding them. Of course, as another non-native speaker, I may be deluding myself, but I don’t want you (or me!) feeling sad about this.
PS I’m not saying that was the case with Seon-ha at all. I couldn’t have said it better about Hong-Jo. 👏🏽
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 11:13 AM
“Hong-jo’s so anodyne.”
Oh, agree 100% on this. Both FLs in the early episodes were so much more complex, but HJ still gets some flashes of quick wit (“cell phone has legs”) amidst the aegyo and self-imperilment, while poor NY has been shunted off to classic unredeemed jealous hag territory. I’m disappointed with the writing on that score, not with either actor’s performance.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:22 PM
Because of intersectional feminism. A rich woman who has been a bully and has remained vile, isn’t one which I consider in need of defence and sympathy. She is far far less oppressed and much more empowered than Hongjo. The End.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 4:45 PM
To which I reply, “because of intersectional feminism.” A woman who knows her power lies in her genetic heritage (out of her control) and her inherent sexuality (something given, but also something partially within her active control)…that woman uses both natural affordances to her advantage to live her most prosperous and safest life.
She has no direct power over her surroundings, but can identify the levers that move the needle. Na-yeon knows what she wants–to be free to act according to her own wishes–and she knows what she can and cannot control to get to that position. These actions include hurting other women–I don’t condone that, but understand that her need for self-preservation in a world entirely controlled my men who care almost NOTHING about her (including SHIN-FUCKING-YU) leads her to this place.
I will defend her almost to the ground, while recognizing that she is the “villain” or the “culprit” to others…
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 1, 2023 at 2:34 AM
I agree she’s a bit bland, but as K-drama heroins goes, I get why people would like her. Until ep. 10 she didn’t act like an idiot and seemed to me to be, while traumatised by growing up bullied and too alone (and that happens to real people, bullying really destroys people) she is kind, resourceful and witty. So totally nice to be around, if you get the chance.
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 1, 2023 at 3:39 AM
I mean, her loneliness. and lack of confidence that people will like her, combined with a common sense that says that actually, she is not such a bad person as to deserve all the hate she receives, that makes her a very real person for me.
It may seem very “Every boyband song about a girl who has yet to find out she’s the centre of the world and it’s YOU”, but I know people who easily show their feelings (sweet autism spectrum) and people whose self-confidence have been shook deeply by bullying, so I feel that girl. And as long as she wasn’t regressing to a “can’t do anything, walks blindly into danger” mode, I could honestly root for her. That’s why her walking into that hole is so annoying.
SP2022
September 30, 2023 at 9:53 AM
Also a no from me, but not quite caps (maybe it’s the power of the gif and Seon-ha’s case).
I do really like the actress though, and that coat is beautiful.
bbstl 🧹
September 30, 2023 at 10:32 AM
Yes. Meaning, NOPE, and also said out loud, “I want that coat”.
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 10:46 AM
LOL, do you read my mind? (Maybe I’ve posted too much on the Internet, and you’ve learned from my wool coat preferences up till now…)
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 11:14 AM
Let me know if you find it! I’m also tempted to try to make it. I don’t wear much blue, but that color is spectacular.
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 11:26 AM
Oooh yes! I don’t usually wear bold colors, but I like it very much in coats! Pops of color in winter, what’s not to love?
Btw: “Her private life” can be very persuasive in selling the “please only wear bold colors, thank you” style. I might have been an PPL victim there. 🤷♀️
“Try to make it” as in sewing yourself?!?! Kudos if you do, I can only manage shortening a pant leg (if forced). 👏👏👏
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:24 PM
Elinor, can you sew a complex coat? I’m really envious? If you have time left over, could you please make me one in dark green/olive green?
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 4:53 PM
@dncingemma I should be able to get to that by 2048. 😆 My incomplete projects box is the size of a compact car.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:19 PM
I love you too (as a reminder) but nope.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 4:40 PM
You keep reminding me of your love like you don’t believe **I** know it’s true, although I’ve told you I trust you. Do YOU know your love is true?
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:49 PM
No. I worry that you would forget!
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 4:59 PM
Emma, I promise. I will never forget.
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
September 30, 2023 at 10:00 AM
Andwae for Na-yeon.
But Yay and always YAY for Seon-ha! 🤗
Semma Vetti
September 30, 2023 at 10:03 PM
You are not alone @attiton. Though I am #ShinHong, NY should have her moment in the sun, I am manifesting her self discovery.
Semma Vetti
September 30, 2023 at 10:11 PM
I feel NY is seeking fulfillment outside, which jerk CEO commented on. And the emancipation of clingy SFL has been done before and has trope status, for the reference of our writers. But sigh… 4 more hours might not be enough.
Seon-ha
October 1, 2023 at 5:26 AM
Yes, she knows she is empty and is looking for something outside to fill the void. It’s not gonna work. But I’ve been working on that same problem for 30+ years and it might be that it never works for realz? So, you go Na-yeon!! 😉
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:12 AM
Tiny hands.
Red hands and red-rimmed eyes.
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 10:57 AM
This is kinda interesting for me. I have really small hands (like, children’s glove size), and I’m always kinda jealous of people with really big hands. Why? I play a string instrument, and the smaller your hands, the harder it is to play. I keep seeing Rowoon’s hands and thinking: boy could play double bass, no worries. *sighs*
That is all, carry on.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:26 PM
Your hands are precious because they make music! But given your desire, I can appreciate why you would have that wish.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:17 AM
Look, you’ve not seen him recently unless you’ve clicked. So, it’s time now for some proud-ass Jae-kyung. LOOK at how happy he is that Shin-you literally has to eat his nasty thoughts and words about how good this holiday food would be based on appearances. If the writers could see their way clear eventually to make these two become really good friends, I’d squee so LOUDLY, y’all could actually hear me through the Interwebs.
This here is Jae-kyung dying inside from our OTP’s aegyo. We’re all with you, bruh. *puking noises*
SP2022
September 30, 2023 at 9:55 AM
That linked one 😂😂😂 I remember loving him in that scene but the gif reminded me just how good his reaction was
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:01 AM
His face. HIS FACE.
SP2022
September 30, 2023 at 10:07 AM
His face.
What more can I say. What more can anyone say.
bbstl 🧹
September 30, 2023 at 10:34 AM
The equivalent of dropping his sword in a duel. He’s beat and he knows it. 🤢
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 11:12 AM
Oh, but dropping your *spoon* is *mainstream appropriate*. LOL! Definitely keeping this up my sleeve for future situations.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:28 PM
I think he has the hots for our Shinyu and all this is subterfuge to hide his LOVE or lust!
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 4:38 PM
Emma, if that were the case, we’d all BE FOR IT. But it’s not reasonable to use your magic wand for Shin-yu and Jae-kyung any more than for any other pair of human beings. The frustration here is that NO ONE is allowed to express their real desire.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:53 PM
But, it is FUN to indulge in conjectural BL! Two beautiful men together.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 4:58 PM
Comment was deleted
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 8:15 PM
Twas the only highlight of TWOE episode 1 for me. But I just don’t see it here. I am also more frustrated that the show hasn’t explored the existing potential with our OTP. How in the world is the red hand and the first imaginary kiss more sensual than anything we have seen since?
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 8:47 PM
@indyfan: My wish for a possible BL loveline is only based on conjecture. I know the evidence is not strong in its favour.
My brain has let me down with TWOE. Which drama?
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 9:06 PM
Sorry. The Worst of Evil. I’ve paused it at Ep 1. I’m not sure it’s for me. But at the end, I did so want JCW and WJH to lean closer just a wee more and kiss. And I absolutely think that show wants us to go there.
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 9:14 PM
Ahhhh. Thanks. I hope no queer-baiting takes place and if they do go there, that it is done sincerely and thoughtfully. Our screens might explode from all the hotness though LOL.
indyfan
October 1, 2023 at 2:00 AM
Hm, I can’t tell from just one scene of theirs. Seon-ha?
But yes, screens will explode either from the hotness, the violence or the mess this has the potential to become.
Seon-ha
October 1, 2023 at 5:27 AM
I’m waiting for the whole series to drop. I’ve only seen the first five minutes as of now.
I’m actually dead serious about how I’m going to watch WoE. It’s gonna be the inverse of how I watched Bloodhounds. All gore, no feelings.
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
October 3, 2023 at 6:13 AM
Apropos of nothing – to whoever it may concern.
@attiton, @indyfan, @dncingemma, @CecilieDK
https://www.soompi.com/article/709367wpp/ji-chang-wook-had-more-kiss-scenes-with-kang-ha-neul-than-park-min-young
indyfan
October 3, 2023 at 7:14 AM
This is the thread that keeps giving. Amazing. My estimation of JCW shot up (tho perhaps not enough to watch Worst of Evil).
OTH my estimation of ATCY actors and director fell after reading this article. However, Google translate might have led me astray: https://www.joynews24.com/view/1631572
Can other Beanies help? It’s their reaction to holding hands I think.
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
October 3, 2023 at 8:38 AM
@indyfan
I remember reading this article. The over-reaction to mere hand holding seems to be an (inept, ill-advised) attempt to reinforce the (hetro)sexuality of two successful male lead actors(!).
https://www.koreaboo.com/news/sf9-rowoon-cameo-friend-ahn-hyo-seop-time-called-no-payment/
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
October 3, 2023 at 8:45 AM
Google trying to help me with my “research”.
Guess how K-drama actresses can’t be “seen” enjoying on-screen kisses, actors holding hands is also a no-no.
https://www.soompi.com/article/969445wpp/2pms-junho-shares-thoughts-kiss-scene-namgoong-min-chief-kim
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2023/07/still-holding-hands-after-director-yells-cut-behind-the-scenes-video-of-yoona-and-junhos-kissing-scene-in-king-the-land-fuel-the-dating-rumors
indyfan
October 3, 2023 at 8:58 AM
Thank you for the better translation Cera. And I think you’re spot on regarding the reasoning. I’ll still credit them for the lovely rep on a mainstream series that many actors wouldn’t have done, but I can’t say I’m not a little disappointed.
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
October 3, 2023 at 9:16 AM
@indyfan
For now we have to take the crumbs.
At least in the drama they showed a beautiful blooming relationship between two males which was not played off for laughs. However, to reassure the IRL “female” fans we have this narrative of:
a. the male actors are very good friends IRL, therefore they had good chemistry,
b. they may be friends but were embarrassed to hold hands! 👬
DancingEmma
October 3, 2023 at 9:18 AM
@indyfan @seeker
I think both should get a little credit for doing the scene given the lingering homophobia in their industry and SK but it is a lot of pearl clutching for sure. Their brands!
We also know that despite many positive cultural and legal changes in some western countries, homophobia continues to be deeply embedded in some parts of their communities. Here is to a time when it is no longer the case anywhere in this big wide world.
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
October 3, 2023 at 9:36 AM
@indyfan
@dncingemma
Absolutely right Emma, to do such a love story on Netflix for a world wide audience would not have been an easy decision.
I doubt the story would have gathered such interest or even have been so impactful had it been some obscure actor (however good the performance).
Having Rowoon elevated the storyline because of his IRL “brand”.
I don’t blame the production to trying to reassure the world wide female fan following of both male actors. Yes we all hope and pray for a world where there is no need for such reassurances.
indyfan
October 3, 2023 at 9:42 AM
@seeker @dncingemma
I hear you. But that I just read JCW’s refreshing take from 7 years ago leaves me a little disgruntled.
DancingEmma
October 3, 2023 at 9:55 AM
@indyfan: As I am! I was just giving them a little credit. Not too much.
And the 7 year old JCW comment is factual and delightful!
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
October 3, 2023 at 7:36 PM
@indyfan @dncingemma
Both Ji Chang-wook and Kang Ha Neul have addressed “Thrill Me” rather matter of factly, with no apologies to their world wide female fans, which perhaps may be slightly more than the ATCN pair. 🤣
https://www.koreaboo.com/news/actor-kang-ha-neul-kissed-ji-chang-wook/
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 1, 2023 at 2:38 AM
Well, it fits fine with Jae-kyung having his own agenda.
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
October 1, 2023 at 8:37 AM
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 “WE will make her a QUICHE. A m*therf**ing quiche.” OMG, I had forgotten that one. Thanks for the blast from the past!
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 9:21 AM
I hate drunk scenes (I hated the one with Hong-jo drunkenly telling the banshees about spells in ep. 12) but even I have to admit he is freakin’ adorable here.
Yeah, totally counting the days. I like that the show is allowing months to pass while events and feelings develop. It’s not that the moon is always full, it’s one full moon after another with a suitable amount of time in between.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:02 AM
I think I have posted the entire scene of Ha Joon “drunk,” just cut into pieces over the course of this post. I don’t want to glorify being that drunk, although I have certainly been that drunk, but…I’m weak. So weak.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:25 AM
It’s rare that someone even close my age gets a glamour shot in these dramas. So, this gets posted!! Did you know that this actress is 11 years older than the actor playing Manager Gong? As it happens, she’s also older than the real Gong Yoo 😂
This is the longer scene between Gong and Ma about how love lasts for some and not for others…and it’s where we learn definitively that she is his first love from a time prior to her (now-failed) marriage. He’s been waiting for her this whole time. She behaves all flippant about her relationships, but really, I feel these two are sort of stuck between traditional ways of coupling (like from the 1980s SHEESH) and the ones they see around them in the present. I am growing fond of the way that these characters are developing–but I don’t expect my pleasure to go on much longer. It’ll get maudlin and cheesy soon enough. Boo.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 10:26 AM
I appreciate this one just as much as you do for the same reason. This is good but I want so much for her than the drama is going to give.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:28 AM
I’m afraid I agree completely, but desperately wish I had a counter-argument.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 10:32 AM
Coincidence she’s going to get a gig just as her husband’s deal is going to fall thru?
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 4:45 PM
Unlike a number of other Beanies, I want Yoonjoo to flirt and do whatever else she wants to consensually do with Wooka.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 4:47 PM
@dncingemma Here, I am happy to report, you and I are in total agreement.
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 3, 2023 at 7:17 AM
I’d like this Mrs Robinson to find one of her own age, rather. But I’d like her to get a close relationship with that young lawyer, one that would make her husband proper jealous, and make him notice that he isn’t even a friend to his wife. That he has a long way to go be worthy of being a friend to her.
And it’s not that I totally condone her having a new love. I am just not too crazy about your new love being the same age as your children.
Dylan [is enjoying Shogun]
October 3, 2023 at 1:45 PM
I had the same thought watching this scene! It’s so rare for characters older than, hm, 35? to get glamour shots like this but this queen managed to get one and own it. In the words of Lucille, Bluth, “Good for her!”
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:30 AM
OK. Shin-yu, for a change. In this scene, his glance reads “longing.” But I put it to you, that once I made this clip, that’s actually not the affect here. What say you all? What does this expression convey to you?
Seriously, the cutest drunk in the entire world.
🌸 Cera (@Seeker) 🌸
September 30, 2023 at 10:04 AM
“I hope red hand doesn’t mess this up for Hong-jo and me.”
… and then he does the over-coat moment, as an excuse to hug her!
bbstl 🧹
September 30, 2023 at 10:38 AM
Seriously, a breath of fresh air in the fog of endless kdrama drunks. So cute.
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 11:30 AM
Putting ALL the pieces together in horrified realization. And then trying to hide it, for her sake.
I’m not saying he did a great job of conveying that, but it was good enough in context.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 11:37 AM
Oooh. It’s gonna be hard to beat that interpretation, folks!!
DancingEmma
September 30, 2023 at 5:01 PM
I want to say something slightly crude but am censoring myself.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 8:17 PM
It probably says something about me but I am terribly curious.
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
October 3, 2023 at 7:21 AM
I’m with Indyfan here. WHat! DOn’t do that. Say something slightly crude.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:34 AM
TEAM OTTER. Also, last post of the geyser, folks!! Looking forward to the conversation.
bbstl 🧹
September 30, 2023 at 10:40 AM
❤️🦦❤️
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:47 AM
@kafiyah-bello For you, my friend!! So much 2ML…all over this post.
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 11:31 AM
Thank you – as always – for your gifs!!! 👏👏👏
You have an eye for the best scenes!
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 11:33 AM
Thank YOU for your comments!! I love reading and responding to them!
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 11:42 AM
☺️
SP2022
September 30, 2023 at 9:44 AM
He totally wins that award for me to too 🏆
As soon as that scene started I’d forgotten the cuteness of the previous one (which I’d loved!) completely. And his running back into his house the next morning, I laughed so hard
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 9:46 AM
I started making a gif of that, but it’s way cuter in its whole context 😘
sonai
September 30, 2023 at 11:18 AM
Hahaha, that was adorkable (and relatable). 😆
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:21 AM
Here’s an easter egg post. It is for @hacja.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 10:36 AM
Can I share this with Hacja? To any snark, I want to add my sincerity. I loved this. No, not the bloody stabbing, but look at their faces. I felt it, I really did, the love, pain, regret, horror. Whereas I was not feeling much for the show at all recently.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:38 AM
Of course you can! For him (from me), tho, it’s an image about castration anxiety.
For you (from me), it can be about what it’s actually about 😉
hacja
September 30, 2023 at 12:57 PM
You do have to admit that, looked at a certain way it could very well be about that. However, let me offer a (semi)-serious analysis of that scene IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS SHOW. It is clear that since this depicts what is presumably, the one sexual experience the couple had, that’s why the curse prevents their present day reincarnations from enjoying physical intimacy, and that’s why they go to bed together wearing heavy sweaters.
I realize that this is probably one of the few points of cleverness of this show, so I don’t want to be too harsh about this theme. (Actually, as I’ve said, I liked the way it handled the love spell conceit as well) Of course sex as a kind of death is a cliche–although one phrase you’ll never hear me say around my household is “la petite mort” mainly because we don’t talk sex, and certainly don’t talk about sex in French! but also because I have always denied the connection suggested by that phrase. It simply doesn’t match with (sorry as always for my 1970s references) the joy of the experience when its with someone you love.
But that aside, now you’ve started me on one of my obsessive issues with kdramas. Sorry, @attiton! I know you’ve heard this before! I generally love how shows in every kdrama genre handle female leads (though in romances, second female leads are often terrible.) So that’s primarily why I watch them. But that motivation is why it bothers me that kdramas are more likely to depict (and Dramabeans commentators are more likely to enjoy) violence, or violence as a metaphor for sex, than they are depictions of sex as a consequence of love. As I’ve said many times, I don’t need to see nudity, I don’t need to see the activity itself, I just want an acknowledgement of it as a legitimate part of a relationship.
For this show, no one is bothered by the scene you beautifully captured (nor should they be, as indyfan says, it is without a doubt the most moving scene in the show and really standout in terms of cinematography) but if the show’s theme had been different, and Shin-yu and Hong-Jo had been “allowed” by the curse to have sex, had even been shown to be partially disrobed, under sheets, there would have been at least 3-4 commentators complaining about the “gratuitous” sex between 30 year old adults in love. (But we know that would be very unlikely to be shown, anyway.)
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 2:43 PM
I have a number of thoughts, and will probably respond twice because the longer thought is being stubborn in formation.
This first one is just one to note that in this particular case, I’m hearing more Beanies complaining about how “no adults in love just get into bed fully-clothed as much as these two do” than I am hearing them say, “gosh I’m so glad there’s no gratuitous sex” (and then, by a tenuous extension, the assumption that these same folks will not complain if/when Hong-jo and Shin-yu finally do get down to it).
Indeed, I’m also with a recent commentator in remembering that there was a moment (fully-clothed, in bed) when Shin-yu said, “If you don’t stop talking, Hong-jo, I’m going to make a move on you, and you’re not going to be awake to see the sunrise that’s so important to you.” It was, in its own way, a threat. So, to your point, @hacja, sex is not something that these two can “simply do,” but I also think right now, the Dramabeans commentariat is more with you than against you about being disappointed in that state of affairs.
I mean, I am.
hacja
September 30, 2023 at 4:05 PM
Very interesting, @attiton I posted a completely respectful, very inexplicit response to your comment, and I got a message I never have seen before “you posted an inappropriate word.” What was it– s-x? Proving my point?
Anyway, what I said in my banned comment was that I do not at all blame Dramabeans commentators for their preferences. Its not my place to judge what people find acceptable or not. Its just a trend that I see in mainstream pop culture, where the depiction of graphic violence is more accepted than not so graphic lovemaking. Part of this could be positive–the desire to avoid exploitation of women characters. Also, for women viewers, sadly, in terms of real life male behavior, it could be that they have more direct experience of violent personal encounters (trying to avoid the inappropriate word here) than the brutal and bloody stabbings shown in many kdramas, and so they would rather not want watch the former. Also, intimacy between real people, even if non explicit, can be more uncomfortable to watch than CGI generated heads being blown off. So these could be totally legitimate reasons for not wanting any suggestive scenes.
As far as this show, I know the point is that the associations of violence with their past romantic intimacy are what is preventing the main couple from consummating their affair, and it could be the 3 scenes of them heavily clothed in bed are driving this point home. It didn’t play like that to me–it seemed more cutesy, but maybe I’m underestimating this show!
Will this reply be forbidden? Let me press “send” and see!
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 4:28 PM
@hacja Sicarius recently posted their research on the words that you’re not allowed to use in the Dramabeans universe. You may be well-served to know that your reference to Sp*ng*B*b (a necessary citation that I feel quite sure you were using quite appropriately to make your worthy point) was the word that was disallowed: https://www.dramabeans.com/activity/p/1457805/
DK-Drama 🫘🏆Image of drama FL Character Deterioration🚺🍉🌱
September 30, 2023 at 4:39 PM
hacja, that one with the inappropriate word is something we are all getting (or many are) and it is not possible to know what triggers it.
I mean, I got that message after a post where the worst word I could think of was “dibs”.
And I don’t swear much, but I have at least written things “darn”, and also some words with * in’em.
indyfan
October 1, 2023 at 2:23 AM
A short response to your long, thoughtful posts @hacja: No, the show does not delay their intimacy due to the legacy of the curse. Well, mostly, as we did have Shin-yu hesitate now and then worrying about the reappearance of the red hand. It is mostly done for that cutesy effect. And forget anything below the sheets, this applies to any physical connection, including kisses (not counting the smoking dream kiss).
It makes perfect sense though because as you and others said, the adults act as children and this feels like a tween romance (unless said tweens are on HBO or something). The result, a rather lacklustre OTP. I also fault Hong-Jo’s characterization, but that’s another discussion, albeit related.
Seon-ha
October 1, 2023 at 3:13 PM
Yes, I want to assure you that I really do think that this image can be seen as a violent playing-out of a moment of castration, followed by a scene of visceral frustration on the part of both parties about the fact it has happened. I was careful with the clip I chose…others weren’t so obviously about this.
I’m also finding it fascinating that there’s a low-key debate going on in the comments—like the drone of a bagpipe—about whether or not Joseon Shin-yu actually stabbed Joseon Hong-jo, or whether the scene we see is him having run up to her after her being stabbed (or stabbing herself) and simply man-handling the grip of the sword.
This could “matter” in the context of our interpretive metaphor.
Or maybe it doesn’t.
Because maybe this is all a diversion. There is actually one character in this drama who is interested in having sex for the joyous, pleasurable reasons focused on human connection and support you specify, it seems to me.
It’s Team Manager Gong.
He has been waiting his entire life—sexless—for his first love to come back to him, as my hidden secondary gif above demonstrates. He’s the one who derives (wants to derive—and does eventually derive) joyous meaning from sex. Malicious Ma (I’m ignoring this misogyny for you, @hacja ) is shown trying thwart him in his “romanticism” by behaving “like a millennial,” teasing him about asking if he could hug her, and pushing his heartfelt attempts to respect her to the side. But he remains sincere. Truly sincere. He writes PowerPoint slides to woo her…because he knows they’ll work (they’re working). I’d venture to say that while people look down on him as being “always alone,” he knows that he’d never be satisfied with anyone else but someone that he loves as dedicatedly as Ma.
I really hope she meets him where he is. I have hope (shown in that gif) that she will…and will derive her own half of the joy from doing so.
hacja
October 1, 2023 at 9:49 PM
@attiton Got to say, as usual that I really enjoyed your “diversion.” But, with all due respect, you are mistaken. Its true that Team Manager Gong was naked in Ma Eun Yeong’s bed, and presumably they slept together. But we don’t know for sure. Have we ever seen them even hug? He could have gotten drunk and stripped in her presence. He might have desire, but we don’t know how much he provides enjoyment. Eun-Yeong has been tolerant of him, but not exactly blown away. (By the way, can I seriously pay tribute to the beauty and acting ability of Lee Bong-ryun? Like many so called character actors she is so often slotted into these similar roles and made up in a way that makes her less attractive, and yet she is always appealing.)
Anyway, back to the theme: We do know that the evil developer, whose name I can’t recall, is virile enough to satisfy the physical needs of even the voracious Na-yeon. Therefore, there really is only one man in this drama that is not plagued by the “curse” that prevents Shin-yu and Jan-Kyung and multiple others from being suitable romantic partners. Now, is it a coincidence that he is evil? Maybe not! I’m thinking this show is almost puritanical in its attitude toward love. That’s why I predict at best a bittersweet ending, with physical “sweetness” denied to all, and some sort of tear-jerking supposedly supplying gratification to us emotionally needy viewers.
Seon-ha
October 2, 2023 at 5:56 AM
“Voracious??”
*sucks air through clenched teeth*
I’d like you to reconsider the tone of that adjective as a value statement on the appropriateness of any/all active female sexual desire.
Moreover, if Na-yeon were satisfied by Chaebol Construction Dude, she’d feel satisfied. She clearly doesn’t. She’s still casting around, looking for what will fill the void in her heart.
You and I might both agree about what that is. But right now neither Shin-yu nor CCD are that soul.
hacja
October 1, 2023 at 10:00 PM
@indyfan Before I agree with you about the reason for their delay in intimacy, I have to see a smoking kiss that is not a dream.. As far as the OTP, don’t blame Hong-Jo. She wasn’t the one who chose the bear hoodie!
indyfan
October 1, 2023 at 10:33 PM
Returning to your earlier comment, I suspect the strongest emotional beats will come from the violence (just look at them in that flashback gif!) than any physical intimacy. Happy to be proven wrong.
(And I assume you mean smoking real kisses in *this* drama cos Seon-ha just served us up a particular fine kiss gif from Parallel World.)
hacja
October 1, 2023 at 11:22 PM
I didn’t see that, so yes its Behind your touch. But you bring up an interesting point. I haven’t watched many Chinese dramas because I can’t stand the censorship and they are way too long and repetitive, but in the romances I’ve watched, even though they make Korean shows seem amazingly gender-enlightened, they do show more kissing and occasionally have the couples sleeping together. I guess it reflects the prediliction of the what I’m positive is an all male censorship authority!
indyfan
October 2, 2023 at 12:49 AM
I understand the barrier erected by censorship. (Tho in my case, it’s often the quality of many c-dramas as well.) It plays out in interesting ways in Parallel World. The unusual representation of the seedy side of life in the western provinces is permitted (given how the state justifies its repression there) but the critique of closed, authoritarian states led by corrupt elites is cut out or modified by a ham-fisted story frame to remind folks this is just fantasy, nothing to think too deeply about.
At the same time Hacja, the critique can still be read between the lines, which is sometimes the only form of resistance under these conditions. And it is also one of the most feminist dramas I have seen. It would not have passed the censors if it critiqued patriarchy overtly. Instead it simply centers the drama around some of the most empowered women I have seen. They form friendships (yes, with clothing and subtext that might please male censors :). They lead a gender-egalitarian team (no questions asked). They let the men deal with their own trauma. And the finale promises us a showdown between two powerful women.
Don’t get me wrong. It is not a great drama, all kinds of issues. But it’s a fun* drama that hasn’t yet insulted our intelligence. Add a swoony, affectionate OTP and short episodes, and some of us are having a ball.
*Fun, if you’re the kind of person who enjoyed cheesy SyFy 90s/aughts shows.
Seon-ha
October 2, 2023 at 6:06 AM
@hacja Well, here are the highlights of Parallel World (up to episode 32) from my own, personal POV:
https://www.dramabeans.com/members/attiton/activity/1462986/
Much less repetitive than watching it straight through, and you can get an idea of the themes that @indyfan is referring to above.
hacja
October 2, 2023 at 11:50 AM
@indyfan If @attiton could indulge me one more long post (if not, just delete). In fact, this will be so long I’ll split it into two, so it could require two deletions! First, let me stress that this is my own personal response, I am not suggesting anyone should have the reaction I have to Chinese dramas. Nor am I saying its a matter of deepest principle for me–obviously I have watched cdramas in the past, and might again, although I’m not tempted by this one primarily because of my tastes in genre and its length.
So keeping in mind this is my response, not suggesting it should hold sway for anyone else: whenever I’ve seen a Chinese drama with strong women characters (and for me, there have been very few) I don’t think “oh, that’s subversive.” I think instead: what would happen in real life if this character took a stand that actually threatened power? Not just loss of job (what still might happen in the U.S. sadly) but imprisonment with sexual violence as torture. I’m a big fan of women’s sports, and the “disappearance” of globally prominant tennis star Peng Shuai after she accused the Chinese official of rape always runs through my mind–its a kneejerk response, I know, but I can’t help it.
Needless to say, that thought hurts my escapist enjoyment a little. But again I want to stress that is just MY response, others might just as legitimately relish the strong woman character and not make that automatic leap to real life. I’ve always had trouble maintaining a proper distance from fictional scenarios.
hacja
October 2, 2023 at 11:52 AM
I really hope the Cdrama you mention with strong feminist characters is subversive of the government’s efforts to suppress women’s and LGBTQ rights, so that makes it valuable and significant. But, I can’t help thinking, and again, this is MY response, that we’re not dealing with simpleminded censorship. Surely Chinese government censors are lot more sophisticated than I am in reading a Chinese drama. They know that the drama will have an international audience as well as a domestic one. They certainly can see that the drama has strong female characters and therefore, they want the drama to have that–otherwise they would suppress it.
That would normally be great, and one could say “fantastic that the government supports women’s rights!” But in the circumstances of the government’s active and actual repression of women’s speech and protest, its like the U.S. putting out global propaganda films in the mid-twentieth century highlighting the opportunities provided African Americans, when in real life, violent discrimination was more likely.
There are, as a certain Dramabeans commentator always points out in defense of China, many forms of propaganda. But official government propaganda is the most pernicious in my opinion, mainly because of the state and military power with which it can be enforced, and especially in the Internet/computer age, with high tech surveillance tools at government’s disposal.
So I also hope that all Chinese dramas with feminist messages, are widely watched everywhere, including China, and that their message becomes not just propaganda but reality. I can’t be comfortable watching them until a regime change (which probably won’t happen in my lifetime, sad to say), but that is just my hangup. More power to smart and enlightened viewers like you and attrition who do!
hacja
October 2, 2023 at 11:57 AM
Funny spell check, instead of @attiton it corrected it to attrition. Pretty much the opposite of my view of you!
Seon-ha
October 2, 2023 at 11:58 AM
Comment was deleted
Seon-ha
October 2, 2023 at 12:05 PM
@hacja No need to fear deletion from this censor!! And also obviously there’s no need to set aside deeply held beliefs. @elinor called me “high-minded” on another stream the other day, but I can provide definite counter-evidence to that claim here. My enjoyment of Parallel World stems almost entirely from watching the steamy kisses, scenes of the OTP sitting on walls holding one another tenderly while talking about their feelings for each other, and the relatively blatant bisexual undertones. Oh, and the rooster-based projectile weaponry. Can’t forget that.
[Had to retype this because I wasn’t quite clear about something that (IMO) required clarity—but in the meantime you also stole my joke about attiton/attrition!! So funny. My screen name is so hard for computers—and for people too! You might even think I designed it that way to mess with everyone’s head! 🫢]
indyfan
October 2, 2023 at 10:08 PM
@hacja As someone whose country is sliding into authoritarianism—of which censorship, including self censoring, is part and parcel—I value your stance and have no desire to quarrel with it. Further, by bringing up our resident right wing Beanie, well, game, set and match to you.
Yet, while I do believe Chinese censorship is more sophisticated than, let’s say, the hammer (ofc) of yore, I am not entirely convinced that allowing a rare representation of empowered women is part of a deceptive strategy to mislead the world about their suppression of feminists and the true conditions of women on the ground.
This blip of a representation in a not very popular drama cannot alter the fact that the mass of c-dramas are rife with women adhering to traditional roles or those that operate within a narrow, non-threatening version of feminism—which is why so many foreign conservatives continue to uphold c-dramas as an ideal.
I do not want to repeat again what I said, but PW remains to me an example of implicitly critiquing patriarchy as much as is permitted within the box Chinese creators are held. And given the treatment of Peng Shuai, Lü Pin, the Five, etc, I am sympathetic toward those who resist from within the system, albeit in small and possibly inconsequential, fruitless ways.
And I imagine if I was a Chinese woman, seeing an alternative way of being on screen that may not be possible in life would still be a beacon of hope. Heck, given the poor track record of female representation (among other marginalized communities) within science fiction and fantasy the world over, this speaks to many of us. Of course, you may counter with the limits of token representation, and you would be right about that. I too rail against it when we stop/slow our work at that. But when you aren’t even permitted that much, it is not nothing either.
I am also well aware my analysis could be incorrect, and I risk falling prey to the propaganda machine. But for now, I will cautiously approach c-dramas on a case-by-case basis. And thanks to your reminders, I will remain vigilant to the risk. Luckily for me, the possible exceptions remain rare so the risk is minimal.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:23 AM
Oh, @indyfan…. STAY AWAKE and chat!
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 10:41 AM
I did it! But now the pillow call is irresistible. Thank you for the fun gifs. It’s better than bedtime reading.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 10:42 AM
Sleep tight. I’ll most likely be riiight here when you wake up.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 7:18 PM
Good morning from my end of the world! Let me go get more coffee or my cranky self will stir up more trouble.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 7:31 PM
I behaved, mostly, today. I look forward to seeing what trouble you caused by my own morning time…
I am caught up on Parallel World. I am ready to discuss whatever! I have 10 gifs or so queued up. I’d like to think I have more to offer than that, but I do have that, at very least.
With luck your coffee is tasty, not because it will keep you from stirring up trouble, but because I hope your coffee is tasty.
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 8:30 PM
Ack! I could post a dozen more comments here on female characterizations, intersectional feminism and female sexuality but let me hop on over to the PW post for something lighter first thing in the morning. (Prays it’s nothing about ethnic genocide.)
Kurama
September 30, 2023 at 10:59 AM
Like I wrote in the review, Jae-Kyung is the only one to blame for this situation, the 27th September is the day he rejected her feelings. So, I’m totally team Girafe. And she couldn’t stick like this on an otter.
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 11:01 AM
😂
Elinor is trapped in the timeslip
September 30, 2023 at 11:28 AM
Otters are incredibly strong for their size, agile and slippery, fiercer and more aggressive than their cute looks suggest, and really good at twisting, wriggling, and biting their way out of any situation.
Kurama
September 30, 2023 at 11:44 AM
I like otters but they’re more famous for holding each other when they’re sleeping than being grabbed like she did on Shin-Yu.
Otters as a representative couple are already taken by the cute couple in Like Otters :p
vienibenmio
September 30, 2023 at 5:42 PM
Same here! He had his chance and he blew it
Seon-ha
September 30, 2023 at 5:50 PM
Have you ever made a mistake? Did you deserve a second chance to show how you were misled and misguided in your original actions, by demonstrating your apologies through ongoing corrections to your behavior?
indyfan
September 30, 2023 at 8:22 PM
True, true. But the recepient of the apology is not required to accept it. Also, she only accepts non-apologies and crummier behavior from reincarnated first loves. 🙄
Seon-ha
October 1, 2023 at 4:46 AM
Of course she’s not. She’s not required to do anything, but I’d love to see her decide to do something on her own for once. I suppose I’ll give her that (that she made a decision on her own terms) in the final scene of episode 12, although I feel confident we’re going to see her go back on that decision pretty darn quickly.
Kurama
October 1, 2023 at 2:03 AM
Oh yeah, but he can’t complain to her and judge her couple (even if he was cute completely drunk).
Seon-ha
October 1, 2023 at 10:00 AM
@dylanrodrigues42 Don’t know if you enjoy these sorts of things…but given that you enjoyed DWY 11-12…there’s lots of conversation here for ya!
Dylan [is enjoying Shogun]
October 3, 2023 at 1:42 PM
Thanks for including me here! Team Giraffe all the way, though! 🦒🦒