Drama Recaps
That Winter, The Wind Blows: Episode 13
by | March 22, 2013 | 259 Comments

There’s a bit of meandering and soul-searching our characters need to do before everyone finally cuts to the chase, though you might be left wanting when it comes to the Big Confrontation. Really, we should know by now that holing two characters up in the middle of nowhere usually leads to something we either seriously like or seriously don’t like, but sometimes shows can still surprise us. And not that happy kind of surprise where you’re all, “Oh, Winter, you shouldn’t have!” More like, “Oh, Winter. You really shouldn’t have.”


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While Young processes the earth-shattering revelation that the brother she thought she trusted was only lying to her, and that her real brother is dead, Secretary Wang and Soo continue their battle of wills none the wiser.

Despite admitting to being responsible for Young’s blindness due to intentional neglect, Secretary Wang is adamant that the surgery be performed on Young, since Sun-hee found an iota of optimism even with the failed simulation.

On that day, she expects Soo to leave empty-handed. The most she’ll do for him is tell Young that he didn’t take any money because he loved her.

But Soo tags her right back, since he’s set up a meeting with Lawyer Jang and Young’s fraudulent doctor. This news doesn’t faze Secretary Wang until he adds that Mi-ra will act as a witness – and that gets her quaking in her boots. “I told you,” Soo reminds her, his face expressionless. “We’ll go down together.”

Unaware that Young knows everything (though you’d think he would have been more careful about yelling in a blind person’s house), Soo tries knocking on her door. When she doesn’t answer he just rests against it, resigned.

Inside, Young sits and stews over all the puzzle pieces now fitting together – all the clues she’d heard before but ignored now serving as proof of Soo’s con. Different emotions flash across her face – rage, sorrow, disbelief, maybe even anger that she let herself be fooled. Now it all makes sense to her.

Coupled with all the evidence pointing to Soo’s falsehood come the fond memories Young shared with Soo, which only work to confuse her feelings. She sits at the edge of her bed shaking with sobs, desperately clutching (but not ringing) the string attached to the glass bell.

It’s like she’s resisting every urge to ring it, until she finally casts the string aside, causing it to ring anyway.

So-ra messages Soo that she told Young everything, adding that his only chance of survival lies with her, as long as he skips town to join her in Italy. I know this girl is delusional as all get-out but Come. On.

Lawyer Jang becomes outraged when Mi-ra tells him the truth – that she conspired with Secretary Wang to hide the truth of Young’s illness from her for money. “How can a human being do something like that?!” he yells. “How could a friend do something like that?!”

For that matter, he also turns in Young’s fraudulent doctor to get his license revoked.

Young goes to the secret greenhouse room to record a video, noticing the different scents in the room only now – Secretary Wang’s, and Soo’s.

Soo tries attempt number 3,993 to rid himself of Jin-sung, but Jin-sung explains his tick-like resilience as such: “Hyung, you’re my family.” And something he learned from his mother when he and Soo were kids was that you don’t abandon family. Soo: 0, Jin-sung: 3,993.

Jin-sung is also unwilling to give up, and has already cooked up some alternate plans to get Soo to live, which involves him returning to his gambling roots.

“You have to win that game no matter what,” Jin-sung calls after him. “Then you can finally be the decent person you couldn’t be until now. Be a son to my parents. Be a hyung to me. Be an oppa to Hee-sun. And to Young… when you get a chance to tell Young everything later, be sure to tell her this: Because of her, you – who didn’t think much of life before – you who said you’ll live like trash because you were thrown away like trash… For the first time, you wanted to live like a decent person. You have to tell her that.”

Lawyer Jang is on a rageathon and slaps Soo the second he sees him, calling for a joint meeting with Secretary Wang. Young’s surgery is scheduled for the coming weekend, and while Wang thinks Soo will be the only one leaving the house, Lawyer Jang reminds her that she’s grossly mistaken. Both of them will leave, and he’ll stay with Young.

Secretary Wang sticks her nose into the air, confident that Lawyer Jang won’t get his way. But he’s got evidence against her the company shareholders won’t like, and that’s not even including her crimes against Young, which he’ll discuss with her personally before taking action.

He freely admits that he doesn’t understand either Secretary Wang or Soo, but he wants Soo to continue the charade of being Young’s oppa “until the end.” Soo says he’ll do his best.

Young acts collected when she meets the three downstairs, though her request for Secretary Wang to accompany her to pick out a wedding dress comes as a surprise. Soo starts to get an inkling when Young reaffirms that he’s not invited, but the real bombshell comes when Young calmly asks him if he’d like to go traveling before the surgery. Somewhere like Italy.

He already knows she knows, and if she didn’t know he knows she knows (I know), then she’s making it pretty clear now that SHE KNOWS. The icing on the betrayal cake comes when Young has the glass bell thrown out.

Despite Soo realizing her aim, he plays along and suggests a different destination before he secretly saves the bell from the recycling bin.

While en route to go shopping, Young asks Wang about her past in the household, somehow taking pity on the woman because she was as old as Young when she first showed up twenty years ago.

Young reaches out to hold her hand, noting that they’re always cold. Wang tears up as she agrees. I really hope this is fake-pity and not real pity for the woman who made her blind. (I guess if it’s real pity, there’s hope for Soo.)

Soo goes to the secret greenhouse room, a room which apparently gives all who enter the magical ability to see all the past events that transpired in it. He sees exactly how Young trashed the room before he calmly starts to pick up the pieces.

He watches the video Young left for him, where she tearfully asks how much of this he planned – did he just want her to trust him as her brother? Did he lie so she could love him? She knows he can see her pain and asks how he feels to see her that way, and judging by his facial expression, he’s had better days.

“Perhaps, do you think you’ve won?” Young asks through the projection, and Soo bows his head in guilt.

Young seems to be giving Secretary Wang her perfect day, one where she gets treated like the mother she always wanted to be. I shouldn’t be feeling sorry for Secretary Wang, but why do I feel like I want to be?

Hee-sun calls Young up to meet, and we know she wants to just ask for the money. Jin-sung knows too, and refuses to acknowledge her until she promises not to tell Young anything.

In the meantime, he tries his own method for saving Soo, by contacting someone who can lend them gambling money. Hee-sun isn’t happy about it and tries to convince Jin-sung not to do it if she promises to live with him, to which he replies: Bros before hoes.

Secretary Wang swells up with pride when she sees Young in a wedding dress, and Young plays right into her earnest desires by having their picture taken. Like a true family.

“For someone who took care of me for over twenty years,” Young begins. “It’s tragic how this is the only present I can give you.”

Ah, but here comes the qualifier: After Young wakes up from surgery, Secretary Wang is fired. Maybe you should’ve waited to give her this news until after the surgery, when the chances of her smothering you with a pillow in your sickness are smaller.

Hee-sun flat-out asks Young for the money, though she does freak out a bit when Young knows the exact amount she needs, thinking Soo’s cover has been blown. That IS the case, but she also told Young about his debt that time she almost ruined his whole scheme. Hee-sun breathes a sigh of relief.

She tries to convince Young that Soo isn’t behind the request: “I hope you don’t misunderstand or hate him. Soo was a good guy, enough for my sister to love him.” She pauses. “Help me. You have the money.”

Young starts to get angry, but Hee-sun isn’t deterred and reminds Young that she loves Soo. “To you people, is my love an excuse to get money?” Young grits out. I love that Hee-sun only sort-of cares about her feelings, since she tries to stress that this is a life or death situation for Soo, and Young can just give him the money now and sort out her feelings later.

Jin-sung borrows money from an old contact, though he fails to realize that the deal is too good to be true when that contact reports directly to Boss Man. Ah, so the moneylending was intentional so that Boss Man could control Jin-sung. But why?

There’s some hope, in that Moo-chul knows something shady is going on. (And he seems to care about Jin-sung.) But he won’t get anything out of the Gangster Wannabe who’s sworn revenge on him, because Moo-chul didn’t let him join in any reindeer games.

Young finds Soo waiting for her in the greenhouse, and they have a passive-aggressive discussion about their upcoming vacation, since Soo doesn’t remember the villa where they used to go to, when the real Oh Soo would have.

“You remember useless things like the cotton candy, but you don’t remember that?” she all but scoffs. For now the pretense is maintained only by virtue of no one talking straight, but Young forces him to agree to taking a vacation the next day, right before her surgery, since she can’t be sure if she’ll live to do it after.

She brushes across another memory Soo fooled her with, the lamb’s ear plant, and throws it in frustration. This vacation is going to be super fun, isn’t it?

They head off for the promised land, with Soo waxing poetic about how the winter wind never felt cold when he was around her, only for Young to fire back that it was still plenty cold when she was with him. Hah. I’m sure her deadpan remarks aren’t meant to be funny, but they sort of are right now.

Secretary Wang finds out that So-ra told Young everything and calls Soo in a panic to come home, but since he already knows, he just hangs up at Young’s behest. He even does exactly as Young says and turns off his phone.

Wang continues to fret about Young’s strange behavior and eventually finds a new will Young drafted in Braille, one which gives all her wealth to the blind charity center. (Also, the orchestra from Inception stops by to lend a little background music.)

Myung-ho calls up to say that Young broke off the engagement through a text message. (Hah.) But the point is, Young’s actions make it seem like she’s preparing to die.

The drivable road ends for Soo and Young, so he decides to trek the rest of the way with her on his back. Young had thought he would just turn around, so when Soo replies that they’ve come too far to go back, it seems like they’re talking about the broader issues between them.

Soo pauses for a breather, and Young is nice enough to give him some water before they finally reach her family’s long-neglected and incredibly-isolated villa. Only then does she notify him that she’s hungry, but leaves the finding of foodstuffs up to him since they’re in the middle of nowhere.

Young keeps making simple, childish demands that Soo submits to without protest, bringing up old memories that he obviously doesn’t share all the while.

Soo goes out that night to find food, while Young just waits, still as a stone.

Meanwhile, Secretary Wang tries to find out where they could be staying, and stumbles across Soo’s letter to Young in Braille. She knows that Soo knows, and that both of them know everything, but she can’t figure out why they’d take a trip together.

Lawyer Jang tries reassuring her that Young is safe if Soo’s there, but the poor ajusshi tears up when he finds the picture Soo left of her real brother, torn in half.

Soo returns to the house with food, and momentarily panics when he can’t instantly find Young, only to sigh in relief to find her waiting in a back room. I’m sure he’s worried about what she’ll do in this angry state, but it might be a little easier if they both stopped ignoring the big white elephant in the room.

Young brings up “their” dad again when Soo is cooking, pestering him with questions about memories he should have. Soo avoids most of them by being non-committal, though Young keeps going, this time talking about how her dad would give her mom coffee by the fireplace. Something about these memories is starting to ring false…

Soo asks about Mom and Dad’s relationship, which triggers something in Young: “Leave the day I get my surgery.” He planned on leaving after she got it, but she corrects him – she wants him to leave the second they get back to Seoul.

So Soo responds by… playing along with her memory game? *looks at the time*

Young catches him on this fake-memory, since he was taking her words at face value that their/her parents had a good relationship, when in reality, Young’s last memory at the cabin was of her hiding with her brother under the covers as their/her parents fought. She intentionally misled him to see if he’d take the fake-bait, and he did.

To make matters worse, the memory she’s rehashing is the exact moment when their(?) parents told them that Young would stay with her father while Soo would go with her mother.

“What I told you today were all lies,” Young finally admits. Everything from the firewood to the soup to the coffee were all made-up things that never happened. She confesses that the past few days have been terrible for her, but then decides to change the subject. How about that Oh Soo who was abandoned under a tree? Was his dream to be a conman?

Soo lets her have her say, his eyes brimming with understanding. I guess that’s the best reaction, since it’s not like he can be mad that she’s mad.

Young is careful to talk about “the conman Oh Soo” in the third person, as though they’re still NOT talking about him. When she asks what Conman Oh Soo wanted to be when he grew up, Soo replies, “A carpenter. A farmer. A fisherman. An engineer. Anything but a conman or a gambler.”

Then, he drops the facade: “Not from the beginning, but after I met you.” For some reason, Young tries to cling to the farce that they’re still talking about anyone but him. Soo’s the one to put an end to the charade first: “Let’s stop it. You know who I am.”

Young tearfully admits that she does, she was just trying to see how long Soo would keep toying with her. “Let’s hear your excuses,” she says, and I don’t think she’s expecting Soo’s reply. “I have no excuse. I know that I hurt you.”

This is what pushes Young over the brink, and what she says makes a surprising amount of sense:

“Rather than saying those words, if you had just told me that when you were young, the wounds you received from being abandoned like trash caused you to live like trash, and that more so than a blind person like me, you were hurting more… Those words would have been more comforting. You knew I loved you yet you still fooled me. If you had just told me that you didn’t get a kick out of tricking me, it would have been more comforting. Out of all the reasons why I can’t forgive you, the main reason is that right now, I can’t even mourn the death of my brother who I missed as much as my mother. Because of you. Loving a conman like you, let’s just blame it on my blindness. Although I hate you enough to want to kill you, no matter how I think about it, there’s nothing a blind person like me can do. You fooled me good, all along.”

Soo tries to stop her from leaving with a Wrist Grab, but she spins around and slaps him. This time, he stops her and pulls her into an embrace, overpowering her struggles by holding her tighter. This is getting really uncomfortable.

They struggle back and forth, with Young trying her best to get out of his embrace. Soo then grabs her by the face and forcibly kisses her, coming up for air afterward like he just took an underwater dive. She keeps struggling.

Soo goes back in for another kiss(?), holding her still until she stops struggling and gives in.

And then, a quiet moment passes as he finally pulls away and lets her go.

“It’s really the end for us,” Young says before she walks away, devastated.


It’s not too surprising that the plot pretty much came to a halt after the big secret reveal, if only because the secret was SO big that everyone needed some time to come to grips. Granted, it was mostly Young coming to terms since everyone around her knew Soo’s secret, but in that sense I’m thankful that we got their reactions staggered throughout the series rather than piled on top of hers all at once, since her reaction was the one that really mattered.

So while Young took her time in finally getting to the point, I was actually surprised and pleased by what she said when she did get around to saying it. Most of the time, excuses are generally unwelcome in apologies, but Soo’s simple acknowledgment of wrongdoing wasn’t enough for her. Not because she wanted to keep arguing about it, but because maybe, deep down, she wanted to try to understand him. And in a way, her willingness to understand him and the fact that she thought of all the excuses he could have given instead of just a deadpan admission means she did understand him. Doesn’t mean she can’t still hate him for tearing her heart out.

And that’s all moderately acceptable. I can buy that these two characters put themselves in an internalizing hell so much so that they had to lock themselves in solitary confinement and drag the proceedings out until the very last second, until they could get to a place where they could think about discussing their issues. Good. Finally.

But… the discussion stopped there.

If we were to break this scene down just by character motivation alone, then Soo still comes out as a terrible human being. And that hurts me to say because I genuinely like his character (not to mention Jo In-sung) and, honestly, I was already completely over the con. Let’s face it, HE was over the con a while ago, and was in this only because of his feelings for Young. Otherwise he’d care about the money and his life a little more, right?

To me, that’s a noble change. To go from conning Young willingly to save his own skin, to saving her even if it costs him his own skin – that’s all stuff I can get behind. And yes, he’s been operating on a different wavelength than Young since he was never under the assumption that they were related and could then love her to his heart’s content. Up until last episode (which seems to equate to a few days in drama time), Young had NO IDEA that the man she was spooning with this whole time was in fact *not* her brother. (Regardless of the issues I had with Young’s naivety, I can’t change the show’s internal logic.)

So he’s seen her go through this (admittedly recent and convenient) moral crisis about having inappropriate feelings for her brother, only for her to try hard to overcome those same feelings. Then, she finds out she got tricked, with just a tiny bit of time to process the fact before Soo tries to solve their problems by forcing her into a kiss. The fact that he does so twice and with an added forced-hug doesn’t do him any favors.

Before I even get to her reaction, how wrong was that, from his perspective? Not even just on a “No means NO” basis, but from someone who knows her and claims to love her, in this specific situation. The fact that Young started having feelings for Soo when he was her brother doesn’t provide a compelling enough argument for Soo to think that forcing himself on her like that, when she’d previously thought of him as FAMILY, was anything less than horrifyingly, gut-wrenchingly wrong. It’s emotionally scarring enough for someone without that kind of subtext to be forced into intimacy, but the fact that she’d previously thought of them as blood kin… it just made my skin crawl, frankly.

In retrospect, I think the moment would have been more tolerable had she struggled her way out, instead of giving into the kiss. Even without all the feelings and bad connotations her submission brought about, it’s unsatisfying just on a flat-out story level, because their issues transcended the realm of what romantic love could solve. And that’s even considering whether one could cover his actions under the umbrella of, “He just loved her so much, and didn’t know how to express it.”

I can’t. I tried. And I feel gross for even trying, because on a base level that kind of force is never kosher, no matter whether his intent was just to stop at a kiss or take it all the way to the bedroom. The fact that she later gave in does not give that scene an automatic checkpoint, it just makes me really, really upset.

Winter. Seriously. If there was ever a show that needed to stand in the corner for a week, you’re it.


259 Comments from the Beanut Gallery
  1. karen


    • 1.1 Ivoire

      This writer did the same thing in World Within, between the leads. That time, it was between Hyun Bin and Song Hye-gyo. I didn’t like it then, and I didn’t like it here either.

      OS kissed her like he was branding himself on her. That kiss did not look good and I too was disappointed OS went there and that he thought he had to go there (because he didn’t). Are we supposed to think/believe that forced hugs and especially forced kisses will make things OK? I can see the need (at times) to want to hold someone, until they calm down. I don’t feel the same way about forced kissing. And it did not convey love (at all) to me (or that OS cared about Young at that moment). Not convinced at all.

      • 1.1.1 Ivoire

        And I agree with those who say that the kiss and the whole scene (forced hug and kiss) were meant to look (and maybe be) uncomfortable and they were…

      • 1.1.2 Vivi

        @Ivoire: I always see your username at the top of the page and you reply to people even though your comment is not related to their comments just to get your comment on top. Though it’s just my opinion, I feel like you should line up just like everyone else.

        • Dominique

          I wouldn’t go there, Vivi.

        • kdj

          thumbs up for you dear 🙂

        • pogo

          ……considering that the first comment was ‘yayayyy’, it’s hard to see how any comment could relate to it, and harder to see why you feel someone with a thought-out opinion shouldn’t stick it as far up the page as they can get.

          • Ivoire

            Awwwwww… Thank you Pogo! I appreciate your support and you defending me.

            Vivi’s comment is interesting and I thought “she must not have been reading DB for a long time, otherwise she would have noticed (at least over the last year, if not longer) how often I have actually been the first one to post on this blog, across the different genres of threads here”.
            I did it so often that one poster asked me once if I was just camping on this site, because on every single thread, I was first, it didn’t matter what time of the day it was.

            I was also notorious for being the first one to post on Open Thread (when I was active there), so much so that when I wasn’t first, people were surprised :-). I am saying all of this to say that I have done my share of refreshing the page several times and being able to post first, as a result. I still do it often for the shows I am currently watching (in this instance 7LCS), and I can see that Vivi is not aware of that.

            I would also add that I have had people/posters tag onto my screen name/my posts as well, in recaps and on OT. So I might do it to others, however it has been done to me as well, and I have never complained about it, not once. Those who are annoyed by it, obviously have not read this blog enough to know what has been going on and how we have come to operate as a community. I, on the other hand, have been reading this blog for 3 years now, and I have read it A LOT (I am not exaggerating).

            I find interesting that the posters whose posts I tag on don’t complain about me, which tells me that somehow, they must be OK with it, or that at least, they understand. I will let this be Vivi (and the other posters who are upset about me posting on the 1st page) have that as their problem, and let them be annoyed or upset if they chose to be.

            Also Pogo, thank you for your compliment, about my opinion being thought-out. I do think before I write and express an opinion. When I don’t have anything to say, I say nothing (and that happens at times 🙂 ).

      • 1.1.3 Dominique

        That is a very astute observation.

        Yes, some writers are one-trick phonies. And, in a world so averse to criticisms and critical thinking, the same trick gets to perpetuate until someone finally pulls the plug on it.

        This drama has now drained itself of all materials and will simply drag its feet all the way to the final episode, hoping and trusting that viewers will, too.

        • Ivoire

          What I wanted to add and forgot, is that when I see a forced kiss in a drama, I am usually not sure what to make of it. Some have mentioned the forced kiss in SeGa, and I did the one in World Within. It is a gesture that is hard to justify to me, however I would like to understand: what is the writer trying to say? What is the male trying to say? What is the female trying to say? Does “NO” ever mean “NO” in dramaland? If yes, when? And if no, why and why not?

      • 1.1.4 JO

        I hope there is an explanation in the next episode. I often find that this show surprises us and makes us think one thing only to have it be something different in the next episode.
        I really hope that kiss and everything will be one of those instead of some recycled kdrama logic. I hope it goes against our expectations. Or else…I might just lose interest now..

        • Ivoire

          Hello JO,
          I like your comment and how you think. I am going to join you and wait and see if there is a (good) explanation in the next episode. Like you, I would loved it if what happened in this episode goes against our expectations (and I will think of you if it does 🙂 ). Well, Wednesday is 4 days away in my neck of the woods, so we shall find out soon…

      • 1.1.5 4sales

        you are English-speaking? and you watch this drama? can’t believe it. forced kiss and force hug seemed unacceptable for you. I think that I have to point out the difference between how you are thinking and the way eastern people expressing their emotion. This is the way to express Soo’s pain and his love on Young. It just the way to express how intensive the love is, for it beyond the power of using language to show that.

    • 1.2 liz

      I’m really disgusted of how agressive behavior is ok to a lot of people. It is scary to tell the truth.

      Did you know Korean people thought this was their fav scene? The most romantic scene? WTF…

      Well, they enjoy to see their female leads treating like trash… reminds me of Secret garden, I hated Joo Won and everyone there thought he was so romantic and in love… the hell.

      No wonder their leading man always wrist grabs their girls and whenrapes happens they say it was the ”victim’s fault” for behaving wrong or wearing a revealing clothe… Yeah right.

      • 1.2.1 Guymonday

        As a guy im always uncomfortable with the forced ‘contact’/struggling scenes. No means no and its never ok to force yourself on anyone.

        Also I think the writer just plain got lazy. That scene could have been done, and more powerfully so, with good dialogue. With Young trying to run away and Soo ‘forcing’ her to face their shared feelings through expressing how he felt..again with his words.

        I know what the writer wanted me to see/feel but instead I just felt gross.

      • 1.2.2 Ivoire

        Hello Guymonday,
        So refreshing to have a guy’s perspective, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

        • Ivoire

          And by the way Guymonday, I agree with you, to an extent.

  2. Grace

    First to comment?

  3. snow_white


  4. Noemi

    Yeah, the last scene reminded me of the whole uncomfortable Secret Garden bed scene…I’m disappointed Soo went there.

    • 4.1 Amberscube

      I remember the same thing too… That same Secret Garden scene.

      The last scene was uncomfortable to watch but my disappointment with Soo started when he kissed Young in her sleep. I know his desperation but….. And then this? … Why?

    • 4.2 tiny

      me too. i had to change tabs while that scene was playing which was worse coz then all i could hear was their heavy breathing :/

  5. Eli

    Yep! I was right. A rage-filled recap.

    Thanks for the recap Heads. Now, I foresee a (hopefully) nice discussion about ‘that’ particular scene like people did back when Secret Garden showed exactly the same scene. Heh.

    Thanks again Heads!

    • 5.1 skelly

      I don’t think this scene was the same as the one in SeGa. The one in SeGa was much more romantic power play, who is going to be the dominant one in the relationship, and they rolled right along over the sound track. But here, even though Soo is the one doing the grabbing and kissing, he is not in control of the situation, he is lost and desperate and totally without the right tools to deal with this situation. There is no music, this is not romance, this is all conflict. I shook my head while this took place – it was uncomfortable, but I could see where he was coming from – he’s dying, she’s dying, and he’s lost her, and he does not have the communication skills or the brainpower to explain to her why he did what he did. As he has done all his life, he resorts to the physical to get his point across.
      Really, the posters who are all up in arms about how he needed to discuss things calmly and rationally and give her the proper space – he’s a thug, not a college professor, and to have him behave like a Miss Manners-trained Beta male would be fanservice, not true to his character. “No means No”? When has that ever applied to Soo, except when he has had doors slammed in his face?

      • 5.1.1 Betsy Hp

        It’s that lack of music — that this wasn’t romanticized — that’s keeping me from slamming the door on the drama.

        It has pulled me back from being such a strong Soo fan-girl. But that’s probably a good thing.

      • 5.1.2 jabberwocky

        i second what you say, skelly. Soo is not a gentlemen, he’s a thug with no proper education, and people cant keep expecting the lead characters to be a role model. im not saying what he did is ok and should be encouraged. As long as they dont try to romanticize the scene, im fine with it.

  6. yellowcake

    Wow. That last scene. No.

    No means NO.

    Not romantic, not sympathetic, not cool. Not a show of love. Just NO.

    • 6.1 yellowcake

      It doesn’t matter if he was feeling desperate, if he felt that at the moment, words could not suffice to convince her to stay. Forcing physical contact on someone is never okay. Forcing hugs and/or kisses on someone is a completely gross violation of boundaries.

    • 6.2 yellowcake

      Not to mention, a lot of people seem to be trying to excuse Soo’s behavior by thinking about his feelings and trying to understand where he is coming from, but what about YOUNG’s feelings? She clearly does not want to be held by him, much less to be kissed by him. Do her feelings not matter here?? Who is being violated in this case?

      Really, you guys. Come on.

      • 6.2.1 kaye

        Him acting on his impulse and use force to kiss her whatever the motives are is definitely wrong but I think he acknowledged that when he stopped the kiss, but oh well, the damage is done already. We, people, given the same stimulus react differently, and I’m with you with regards to the no-no of forced kissing.

        But, there is a but here, this is drama wherein alll of our characters are flawed and do the wrong things. @Mystisith down there is right, we have double standards, slapping a person/hurting physically is also wrong, but we do things with a reason as well as forced kissing is concerned. I think by now after that uncomfortable scene, I feel relieved seeing all the comments here.

      • 6.2.2 Fidelity

        Lol, I find all this hypersensitivity to the forced kiss pretty hilarious. It seems like regular physical abuse (e.g., slapping) doesn’t provoke all this righteous anger and discomfort but a sexual violation does. I will assume this is result of Korean dramas always going light on the physical consummation of romance; people are desensitized to physical violence, but not to sexual violations.

        Why would anyone try to ‘excuse’ Soo? Soo is a deeply flawed character whose motto mere months ago was to “live like trash”. Hello, this is the guy who initiated the plan to fool a blind girl to get some bling bling. His change with Young is not a simplistic reform. He will revert back and forth, between the a-hole who has no particular respect for woman (like in his former treatment of Sora) and the guy who piggy-backed his Young to top of a mountain.

        • mystisith

          Thanks for the objectivity. OS did things more blameworthy than that kiss and OY is not a white and pure character either. I’m all for female solidarity but here people are picking up the wrong fight.

        • dany

          Good comment.

        • yellowcake

          I don’t get your comment. Are we supposed to be desensitized to sexual violations too? Because the implication of your comment is that if there were more scenes depicting sexual violations in Korean dramas, then people would be desensitized to sexual violence, and there would be less “forced hypersensitivity.”

          Physical abuse, emotional/psychological abuse, any type of abuse and violation is deeply wrong and unacceptable. The reason why I am personally reacting so strongly to sexual assault is because we live in a rape culture that so often excuses the perpetrator and completely neglects the victim. I find it grossly offensive. So no, I will not stop being “hypersensitive” to such scenes of sexual assault until more people don’t try to justify actions that are inherently wrong, and try to think more from the perspective of the person who is being violated.

          • mystisith

            Seriously, calm down and analyse the situation from all angles: It’s not a sexual assault nor a rape attempt. As someone who knows what those words mean (personally), I can’t classify that scene as a scene which is part of the “rape culture”. The sexual dimension is secondary here: It’s more about emotions and ways of communication. 2 persons: 1 is blind (literally and figuratively) and the message has to pass.
            Let’s wait for ep 14 to decide if we should burn the man alive.

          • yellowcake

            I can’t reply to your comment so I’ll just reply here.

            It’s not sexual assault? Are you kidding me? Did he or did he not force a kiss on her? You may not classify what Soo did as sexual assault, but I do. The sexual dimension? A lot of sexual assault cases are about power, dominance, not about actual sexual desire or anything. In this case, Soo was trying to over-power her so that she could “understand his desperation and agonizing frustration and angsty love” for her. Maybe I could understand the hug as an attempt to calm her down, but the moment he kissed her and she struggled to stop it, that whole scene crossed into sexual assault.

            And if Young kissed back, that’s even more gross. That shows to the audience, “Hey, look! It’s okay to force-kiss someone you love, because if you hold the kiss long enough, the other person will begin to enjoy it too and give in.” No.

            Am I calling for a public burning of Soo? No. If you notice, I haven’t actually cast any aspersions on his character. All I’m doing is saying that his behavior is wrong wrong wrong. Many people are trying to understand his behavior, talking about his upbringing and lifestyle, and his perspective, while saying they don’t condone what he did. I understand the need to try to justify the sexual assault, because so many people love the character of Soo; you want to try your best to understand why he would want to do something so wrong.

            But what about Young. How many people are actually thinking from her perspective? She didn’t want to be kissed, so he should have stopped as soon as she resisted and struggled. She is blind so she can’t see how anguished Soo was? So his only resort is to force physical contact on her? I’m not buying that. What about the fact that she is blind also makes her more vulnerable to sudden attacks, making what Soo did (coming at her without letting her know what he was going to do in such a highly emotional and tense situation) even more gross.

          • kaye

            I think you need to chill now. Your behavior is now OTT. The problem is you just look at one side of the picture and not the totality of it.

            Nobody said in their comments that Soo’s doing is right. I get your point but this is a scenario wherein both are trying to explain their sides and OS’ way is clearly wrong. I think the drama is not glorifying it (so I should wait for the next episode). It just shows how OS is a flawed character and have done so many bad things, and I am intrigue how he will redeem his character after that scenario. I have to give credit to this drama now, cause we are all trying to decipher its motives.

          • yellowcake

            My behavior is now OTT? How so. Please explain.

            Two comments now asking me to calm down. Funny. I haven’t lashed out at anyone, nor have I used any vulgar language. I haven’t typed in ALL CAPS TO EXPRESS MY RAGE. On the contrary, I am actually typing quite calmly, and think I have expressed myself quite reasonably as well. So please. Tell me how I need to calm down.

            “Nobody said in their comments that Soo’s doing is right.” Yep, I see that. But so many are trying to understand where Soo is coming from, saying he’s such a flawed character and all, making attempts to sympathize with WHY he would resort to such behavior. Another commenter (Chimera, comment number 18) voiced my issue with this better than I could:

            “Like I said, I don’t have a problem with flawed shows. I love flawed characters; my only limit is that I don’t have patience with trying to understand the manpain of heroes who cross the line into sexual assault. It diminishes my enjoyment of the good points of the story and I’d rather not subject myself to that. Your mileage may vary, of course, and that’s fine with me. People have different hot buttons and sexual assault by characters the audience is supposed to sympathise with is one of mine.”

            Maybe what I’m saying is just deeply uncomfortable to you because you don’t agree with what I’m saying. If that’s the case, you can scroll past my comments. I’m not forcing you to read them. I’m not forcing you to do anything.

          • kaye

            And one more thing, I now find your comment as hypocrite and narrowminded. This is not the first drama wherein we saw something similar in that scene. In movies and even literature and art or even anime, violence, aggression etc are depicted. Why? Because it is innate. What matters to me right now in this drama is for them to show that the thing Soo did is detestable, so as to how they will redeem Soo after that mistake is what I hope to see in the coming episodes.

            If you don’t want to see this kind of scenes, just watch children’s shows, (oh, even children’s shows portrays violence too i.e. tom and jerry)

          • yellowcake

            Thank you for all this new information. Wow. I had no idea that violence featured so prominently in our media, no inkling whatsoever that our media is so saturated with scenes of violence to the point that our society has become largely desensitized to depictions of violence and to violence itself.

            Don’t be so condescending.

          • kaye

            you may have to review your latest comment, then ask yourself why it’s OTT.

          • kaye

            where have you been all the time? It’s everywhere actually.

          • yellowcake

            No, I think I’m okay. I’m just going to walk away from this discussion because it’s obviously not going anywhere.

          • yellowcake

            Oh, I guess you couldn’t tell I was being sarcastic about not knowing about violence in mainstream media. Oh well.

          • kaye

            “desensitized” is not equal to “aware”. It’s like you don’t have a violent reaction about the slapping/physical abuse but you react strongly about sexual violence? Isn’t it hypocritical?

          • Arawn


            You didn’t write anything in the previous thread about Soo beating up the doctor guy. Nothing. But when Soo forcefully kisses Young, you go into an angry tirade judging him thoroughly.

            So a question. Is forcefully kissing another person so much of a worse crime than beating up a man that you see no reason to complain about the latter one?

          • javabeans

            Putting in a warning here. Let’s cut out ad hominem attacks: Attacking another poster doesn’t make their point invalid, or one’s own point more valid.

          • Fidelity

            Your first paragraph is essentially a lengthy iteration of my comment. It’s not about “supposed to”, it’s about how it is. people are desensitized to physical violence due to continuous depiction (did you have your crisis when OS was slapped numerous times, or when he beat up the doctor in middle of a road?) but not to sexual violence.

            You can as hypersensitive to these topics as you wish and I will continue to laugh at you as you rage over any forced kiss scenes while apparently having no issues with people getting beaten the daylights out of them. Double-standards are funny. BTW, seeing all the upset comments, you really shouldn’t worry about how sexual assault is viewed by the public.

        • crixa

          Kudos to you! Insightful comment you have there.

          By the way, thanks heads for the recap!

          • Blackwidow

            Chillax. It’s just a drama.

      • 6.2.3 skelly

        You can be judgy about him all you want, but then don’t make him out to be a perfect hero. What he did was totally within his characterization. In fact, it would have been ludicrous for him to sit down at this point and “give her space” and “talk it out” and all those other little games that we demand when it comes to relationships. Where on earth would he have picked up that behavior? That’s our particular privileged game, not his.

    • 6.3 Megan

      It’s also more disturbing that she is blind. Forcing yourself on a blind girl… That is a new low

    • 6.4 rearwindow

      I have no idea why so many people have been in an uproar over your comments. I agree with everything you have said and think that your perspective is a much-needed one on this message board (clearly). It saddens me that people are so willing to excuse Soo’s abusive behavior.

      Soo’s abuse essentially did two things for me:
      1. It made him so unlikable as to be utterly uninteresting. I don’t care about him anymore. I’m no longer rooting for him as a character.
      2. It completely undermined the emotional connection that had been built between him and Young. However fucked up their relationship was, I had thought up until this point that on some level, he truly cared about her as a person, not as a possession. There were some things that I overlooked to get this impression, but I did think that at the very least, he saw her as a three-dimensional human being. Not so anymore. Physical/sexual abuse is never romantic and it does not stem from feelings of love or passion. It is not about the other person in any way, shape, or form. It is about power and asserting dominance. This scene was not about Soo being so overwhelmed by *feelings* that he just had to “show her his love.” (Let’s also address for a moment the fact that FORCING YOURSELF ON AN UNWILLING WOMAN IS NEVER A SHOW OF LOVE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.)

      I don’t care if it’s “understandable” that Soo would react this way, because his actions completely dehumanized Young and obliterated any notion that he truly loves her. Some people may be able to accept his behavior as a part of his flawed character, but for me his behavior completely undermined the entirety of his character and basically the premise of the series itself. I am not interested in watching an abuser continue to abuse a vulnerable woman. I’m interested in watching real connections between flawed people, and I’m interested in watching how these characters change and grow because of their relationships with each other.

      • 6.4.1 skelly

        How did his behavior undermine his character? I’m puzzled by the statement, because to me his actions made perfect sense considering his character.
        I am also puzzled about the dehumanizing comment. Are you saying that because he forced a kiss on her, he can’t really love her and he must only see her as an object? Has he always seen her as an object and never loved her, or is this something that has just now happened?
        And between a couple, is everything that happens always love-filled?
        And is abuse always physical? Can’t a valid point be made that he has been abusing her, all along? I think you can. Obviously the physical aspect was the tipping point for some people (although I guess it is perfectly all right for him to beat up everybody else in the cast, including his best friend) but the fact is he has been indulging in emotional abuse since the first episode. Where has our outrage been?

        • rearwindow

          Oh, I have been very disturbed by his violent and emotionally manipulative behavior all along. That doesn’t invalidate my outrage for his character now. Soo has walked the line for me from day 1, but I was interested in seeing if he would change, or if his conception of love would change as he developed a real connection with Young. My all-time favorite kdrama (TK2H) focused on a main character who was a total shit for the first 6-8 episodes but ended up maturing into one of the most inspiring leaders I’ve ever seen portrayed onscreen.

          I agree that Soo’s behavior is consistent with how he has been established from the get-go. My problem is just that: he hasn’t grown, he hasn’t matured, and I have no emotional investment in continuing to watch him take advantage of Young by physically and emotionally abusing the woman he claims to love. That’s just not interesting to me. I guess you could say his character has passed the point of no return for me.

          “Are you saying that because he forced a kiss on her, he can’t really love her and he must only see her as an object?” Yes, this is exactly what I am saying.

          “And between a couple, is everything that happens always love-filled?” No, of course not. There are plenty of abusive relationships out there. Does that mean I want to watch them on TV, or that it’s wrong to point out how wrong they are, and to be disturbed by people who jump to the defense of the abuser in real life and in fiction? Absolutely not.

          I guess what I mean about his behavior undermining his character is that I bought into the series on the premise that his character would change throughout. That’s why I watch all kdramas. I acknowledge that was an assumption on my part. My interest in the show has been maintained only because I assumed that somewhere along the line, his character would mature. While the forced kiss is consistent with his past behavior, it erodes his character to the point that I am no longer interested in watching his journey. If he can’t get it together to be a decent human being to Young at this point, I have no investment in him as a character.

          • skelly

            I always assumed that a melo did not require character change – that the whole reason for melo was that people would find themselves on a particular track, and would be unwilling or unable to get themselves off that track, that no matter what they tried there was an inevitability about their fate. When we watch Hamlet, do we expect him to learn how to be more decisive, or have a deep meaningful conversation with Gertrude that leads to hugs all ’round and no hard feelings? I’m exaggerating, but I just never thought of melodramas as stories about self-improvement and personal growth.

          • Betsy Hp

            @skelly: I agree that melo’s, as a genre, aren’t about “self-improvement and personal growth” — but I do think this one is supposed to be about Soo’s struggle to change — to find meaning, etc. (And Young’s struggle to change for that matter — to find a reason to live, etc.)

            Maybe that struggle will fail (as Hamlet’s did), but it’s the struggle that got me watching.

            @rearwindow: I do think this is Soo’s darkest moment. A moment that has been growing as he attacked people he hated (that doctor, Wang) — and is now at its darkest because he attacked the person he loved. And the reason I haven’t given Soo up as totally lost yet (or the drama) is that the drama treated it as a violent, not in any way romantic, thing. Young took it as a relationship breaker for them. So I think it’s being treated as bad behavior rather than normal or excusable.

            Where the line gets drawn for the point of no return… I can totally see this as being that line. For me though… I’m interested to see if Soo can struggle back from it.

          • mystisith

            Maturing doesn’t mean having a brain/heart transplant: People are what they are and very few have an epiphany which will make them change their ways (I don’t have figures but I would bet my 2 hands on them being very low).
            Also, that idée reçue of character’s growth in dramas is annoying. It’s not mandatory at all and you can make a good story without it.

  7. norm

    Hahahhaaaaaa….. even im sad that young doesnt want to see him again but she gve up and gve soo the kiss back?? Yayyy..!!

  8. O2Couple

    OMG i’m waiting like forever for you to make this episode’s recap. Thank you so much for your hard work!

    As for this drama, i have no more words to explain how oustanding this drama for me, or maybe, for us.
    The romance between them is just starting to be so clear for the first time, even though it has to be blooming that way, with so many tears and angers and guilties 🙁

    JIS is successfully make Soo’s character so outstanding. He make us can feel his pain, guilty, hurt, sad, and more. He can potrayed his character so well. As for SHK, she was also too great to be said. The way she potrayed Young’s emotion, anger, and all the sadness and painful because of her oppa “lies-and-love” game she believes all the way is just a lies for her.

    This drama is just not give us some cheesy and too-dramatic responds of anger and hatred. All can be potrayed so natural and nothing showed to be overacted and too-dramatic.

    The main reason why i loooovee this drama is not because it has the best storyline ever, but the way they can potrayed each character, the emotions they showed, the script, and the cinematography is just plain perfect. If that doesn’t enough, then add the superb acting and chemistry. and if you can’t get enough, just add the OSTs.

    Can’t wait for episode 14, and what they can give us in the last 3.

    • 8.1 marie

      i agree with you, sometimes we only have to relax & enjoy the show for me JIS is great actor and SHK is a great actress. I only want to see them as a couple like another Kdrama’s couple. It’s enough when I can feel what their feeling 🙂 anyway thanks for that recap 🙂

  9. Briggy(@subin70)

    I’m not disappointed with that whole kiss scene.If I were Young,I’d violently kiss him back then slap him.haha.if anyone is having a separate meet up for NY,NJ,Philly,DC,Delaware Maryland,let me know.I can’t go for the first one since its Thursday night and I’m coming from South Jersey.I feel lonely and need kdrama buddies.

  10. 10 thil28

    agreed, heads.. the last scenes were quite uncomfortable for me, they made mad at SHOW for going there… really makes me want to deck oh soo, No means NO!, idiot…especially with all the revelations she was going thru…sad to be disappointed with show which i loved so much…

  11. 11 Autumn

    Dat scene.

  12. 12 kaye

    the feminist in me is saying that the kiss was so wrong….so wrong…

    But then, Soo stopped the kissing, he realized on the spot his wrongdoing….and it’s a cliffhanger so i’ll wait for episode 14 before I make a final judgment.

    • 12.1 BluPerry

      I agree with you.

      OK, I’ll also wait for episode 14 to see what follows Young’s “It is really the end” cliffhanger. The end for brother sister relationship, the beginning for a happy ending, I hope.

  13. 13 Grace

    I was a bit disappointed that Soo didn’t say much to apologize to Young. I wanted him to let Young know how much he has changed and how much he loves her. But hearing Young say those words towards the end, I guess she knows, and we needed to hear those words from her rather than from Soo.

    Am I the only one who is okay with the hug and forced kiss? Soo was trying to calm Young. And since words are not enough, he showed by hugging and kissing her. This time around, it is okay for Young to respond because she knows he’s not her oppa.

    • 13.1 yellowcake

      I don’t think it’s okay or normal at all to calm someone down by force-hugging and/or force-kissing them. On the contrary, if you don’t want any physical interaction with another person, I think any physical contact, especially forced, would only provoke you further. Or maybe that’s just me.

      You calm a person down by talking to him/her calmly. If he/she isn’t ready to listen you yet and walks out on you, then the respectful thing to do is to let that person go, and try talking to that person again when he/she is ready.

      • 13.1.1 kaye

        It will be out of character for Soo to talk openly to Young since she walked out already, but I do agree that what Soo did (the kiss) is so wrong, very wrong and I think he realized that because he stopped kissing her. Still, an uncomfortable ending note for the episode…but then I’ll look forward to the next episode because I think the main conversation will start there.

      • 13.1.2 roake

        You’re under the assumption that he is functioning in a rational way.

        The scene was uncomfortable, but it didn’t bother me. Love is not always pleasant and reasonable. Emotions that intense can be dirty and angry, but seldom rational. I have never been in a life and death kinda love, but my professionally forbidden love was enough to intensify and discolor reality. Think intensely irrational need to hold on to said love.

        And try to remember who Soo really is. How desperate would a person like HIM be with mere days left to be with her? Not just with his life, but her life on the line. He is not a gentleman, he was not raised to be polite, he is a thug in essence. We can’t expect his reactions to be all butterflies and sunshine. His kind of love isn’t necessarily romantic, he can be possessive, irrational, and desperate too.

        • yellowcake

          Okay. So he may have been acting irrationally. Still doesn’t make his behavior okay.

          • roake

            I don’t think the drama is trying to say it’s ok to do what he did. I don’t even think the character (Soo) thought he was right.

            I just wanted to explain why he might have done what he did because some here seems to think the drama dove off the deep end.

            My point was that it is a plausible reaction for his character, not saying it was an acceptable one.

        • picklemonster

          Oh wow, you summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say, but better. =)

          You’re so right in that Soo wasn’t raised to be a gentleman. And the guy only has a few weeks left to live, and the reason for that is because he sacrificed it to let Young live and see again, so that he can spend the last of his days by her side. So when the truth finally came out, and seeing her rejection towards him (which is fully justified on her part), he just lost it due to sheer impulsiveness and the urge to make her understand his feelings, because he knows that Young can’t SEE how sorry he is. That kiss was ugly, raw, and beast-like. And I’m not trying to defend Soo in any way. I’m just saying that things like this happen in real life. And in a life and death situation that Soo is facing at the moment, love on his part is not always gonna be pretty. It’s reality.

          In short, this episode didn’t disappoint me at all. I think we’ve just had too much beautiful visuals to look at for a long time, so when this uncomfortable and ‘wrong’ scene came along, we’re all caught off guard.

          • bia

            so if Soo raped Young because he loves her and has little time and is dying, would be okay and you would understand it?

          • picklemonster

            Bia, notice how we’re talking about a forced kiss scene, and not rape.

      • 13.1.3 mystisith

        In their case, words are not enough. They never were and never will.
        A bit out of topic but not completely: Many children with emotional imbalances are reassured and soothed by physical contacts. They can be hyperactive one minute and after being hugged they relax and go to sleep. They also like small rooms and tight cocoons.
        According to the writer, OY has been deprived of human touch and affection. Humans need that. OY told herself that she doesn’t know how to comfort someone because she never was comforted herself. I can understand the fact that she is startled by OS’s move since she’s blind and can’t anticipate what he is doing. But saying she is scared of being touched? I thought she was quite bold toward her oppa in the previous episodes…

      • 13.1.4 DHM

        She’s blind. He can’t just let her go. They are out in the middle of the freakin’ woods and she doesn’t know her way.
        She also has a brain tumour that is killing her and he’s got a ticking time bomb on his back. They don’t have time to ‘wait’ for a reasonable discussion.

        Those are, to me, reasonable excuses for the forced hug. The kiss, not so much.

      • 13.1.5 Blackwidow

        One can say that objectively but logic usually flies out the window when emotions are involved.

        Not every body thinks when they are feeling, and that is what Soo is doing, he’s feeling instead of thinking. If everybody thinks the same way logically, this world would be boring.

    • 13.2 picklemonster

      Nope, I also have no problems with the forced kiss. Of course, Soo was COMPLETELY using the wrong method to show Young how much he loves her. I get that the reason behind his aggression is because he felt frustrated, and wanted once-and-for-all to express to Young how much he loved her and how sorry he was. He dealt with it the wrong way, but I just saw his actions as a reminder that Oh Soo is still a character with his own flaws, and he’s not always calm, calculating, and charming under stress. I definitely didn’t see it as something that was disgusting or revolting. It was simply a character in the drama making a bad decision in the heat of the moment, like many other characters in a drama.

      It’s either that, or perhaps Jo In-Sung’s hotness makes everything ranging from adultery (from A Frozen Flower) to incest seem rainbows and butterflies for me….

      • 13.2.1 Grace

        LOL! Me too, I would forgive Jo In Sung for just about anything!

      • 13.2.2 kaye

        Now, I’m LoLing at your last comment! I think JIS mastered perfectly the rugged/forced kiss (WHiB, ADC, Piano, SD, and even Shoot for the STars) that we are having reactions like this

      • 13.2.3 unknownX2

        Hi picklemonster

        I so agree with your analysis of Oh Soo/JIS’ action in the last scenes. Throughout this episode, it was quite obvious that he was out of words when dealing with Oh Young (& even Sec Wang or Lawyer Jang since he truly did wrong). Oh Young also could not see his remorseful & anguish expressions when they were talking in the lodge. Never the moral guide to heaven, his only course of action (which he knew to do) was to restrain Oh Young by force when she became so emotional since he had no more words (depicted by the total silence in that scene). Emotions took over too. I think this part of the story is well written.

      • 13.2.4 Min sun

        Hahah love your last line that’s a classic

      • 13.2.5 Arawn

        I think you’re comments are quite spot on. I wasn’t bothered by the kiss in the least. People here seem to think that if you understand WHY Soo is doing this and are not absolutely shocked & disgusted, you think it was a-ok. Of course it wasn’t ok, it was wrong. Soo was violent towards Young and violence is never ok, especially not towards your loved one.

        However, others here have rightfully pointed out reasons behind Soo’s actions. He’s at loss with words, he’s frustrated and desperate, he’s not acting rationally. We have seen countless times that Soo is very physical when he get angry or desperate. He almost hit sec. Wang and he attacked the doctor – scene that I found much, MUCH more disturbing than this, by the way. So it’s totally understandable that under severe stress Soo would react violently. And he did.

        Also, I tried to rewatch the scene but really didn’t see or get the feeling that Young was responding to his kiss. She merely went limp because struggling was clearly not helping and it made Soo realize what he’s doing. Show did not try to portray this as something romantic and good and so I have no problems with it. It’s NOT the same as in SG where RI accepted JW’s forceful hugs finally. Here it didn’t happen, Young did NOT accept Soo’s treatment of her. Her walking away and saying that they finished proves it.

        And finally, Young hit him. Women keep smacking men in kdrama all the time but for some reason people are not usually disturbed by it. It’s violence, too. It’s not acceptable to hit another person whether you’re a woman or a man. Period. Soo is more prone to violence but Young has some very destructive traits in her, too. She was downright cruel to sec. Wang with her wedding dress show and toying with Soo when they both knew already he is not her brother. Yes, both Wang & Soo do deserve it in a sense, but I for example couldn’t never act like Young did. She could’ve just kicked both Soo and Wang out but she resorted in to torturing them emotionally. That is not a very good trait in a person.

        So at the end, both Soo & Young have some very bad qualities in them. They are very flawed characters. And I still like both of them even though I don’t like some of their personality traits like Soo’s violent streak and Young’s prone to coldness and cruelty.

        • picklemonster

          That’s true, I’m glad someone brought this up! I’m quiet surprised by how many people turn a blind eye on scenes where women hit men, and disregard it because apparently “men can take a beating” or “hitting men just make them stronger”. If everyone is asking for equality, then it is wrong for ANYONE to hit ANYBODY unless it’s for self-defense. It is wrong for men to hit women, and it’s equally wrong for women to hit men. I feel that these days, it’s so hypocritical when people just shrug it off whenever a woman slaps or hits another man (for example Seo Won kicking Gil Ro in the groin in L7SC for no good reason) and even think it’s funny or justified, but good lord, as soon as a man slaps or hits a woman, everyone goes on war-mode. Can we please just agree that BOTH actions are wrong? But since it happens so often anyway, lets not be biased and only strike out when women are the victims. If we want equality between the two sexes, then by logic, women are to be treated the same as men. And both women and men deserve enough respect to not act in violence against one another.

        • Jackie

          Good comment.

          I mean goodness, she hit him with her stick and there’s no problems there.
          Soo punched the living life out of the doctor – no comments there.
          A forced kiss, a device used so many times in K dramas and everything is blown.

          Come on, does anyone remember the “almost kiss” that Gu Jun Pyo forced on Jan Di? Is it because it was prevented then it was okay? To me, it’s just as bad as this scene here in That Winter, if not worse.

          Oh Soo is a bastard, people have to remember that. He loves Young, yes, but he’s trash. I’m not surprised by that forced kiss at all, nor disturbed. Again, we’re watching a melo guys. I know it doesn’t make it right, perse, but think about what a melo entails.

          • Ivoire

            I for one remember that “almost kiss” GJP tried to force on JD, and I was not for it. It was one of the many reasons why I never rooted for GJP in the first place, I was always for Ji-hoo, all the way to the end, even though I knew he would not get the girl. I kept wishing that the show would give him a nice girl of his own. That forced (almost) kiss made me cringe, especially because they were teenagers, and they were alone in that garden. If something had happened to her, what would she have done? GJP was all powerful, he never paid the price for anything he did.

            I felt that GJP needed to atone for a lot of things. He never apologized for making the other guy a vegetable, the one whose twin brother was a model and the one who kidnapped JD at some point. There was no real resolution to that (not to my liking I should maybe say).

            He changed a great deal because of JD and over the course of the drama, yes, however, I would have liked to see him reflect on some of the things he had done wrong when he was in High School, and change or atone for some of it. He could have visited that guy who was a vegetable, set up a fund for his care, etc… A simple scene could have showed that.

            I was also not impressed with how he treated the girl who liked him, the one who had gone to Germany for a while, Oh Min-Ji (played by Lee Si-young) and who gave JD a bad reputation at school, when she pulled that stunt about JD being found in a room with a guy. I didn’t condone what OMJ had done, however I understood why she had done it. GJP insulting her (I don’t remember his exact words right now) and putting her down felt hypocritical to me. It was OK for him to abuse people physically and emotionally, yet he felt entitled to lecture others when they did. Double standards much?

            Regarding Seo-won in 7LCS, I don’t find her to be a well written character, which is nothing new, I know. I do agree with those who have said that women hitting men is not OK, because I don’t think it is. The boundaries should be the same for both genders.

          • Ivoire

            I know this recap is not about BOF and 7L, I just wanted to give my 2 cents…

      • 13.2.6 Cary

        Lol at rainbows and butterflies. After reading all these interesting comments I feel that it’s either that or I might be a very terrible person with no self respect whatsoever for not being bothered at all by that scene. So… I guess he’s just that hot, no?

        • semmiana

          heeheehee! me, too! it was a dumb decision on soo’s part…but really, he’s been making terrible decisions since the beginning so…i’m not that bothered by the kiss. is it ever ok to do stuff like that? no. Let me say it again with a resounding NO! but how many dumb choices have we made in the name of love? *looks around* that’s what i thought.

          • Cary

            He’s dangerous and she’s self destructive. It’s a bad, bad combination but makes for a very interesting, even addicting, though sick love story.

        • EX-DF user

          Same here. While I appreciate all the above (and below) comments, I still don’t think it’s reason for outrage. Sometimes we need to see things for what they are, it’s not called the entertainment industry for nothing. It is what it is, a melodrama meant to entertain. And don’t read entertain as funny, haha, but just something to take you away from your daily routine for an hour or two.

          Maybe I’m just jaded, but people in general need to step back, relax and enjoy the drama. If the viewer finds it hard to not internalize the fiction you see on screen, maybe then said viewer shouldn’t be watching it in the first place.

          I’ve said what I wanted. Stepping off soapbox. End of story.

          • blackwidow


    • 13.3 ks

      I’m disappointed too that Soo didn’t say much to explain his feelings. I was sitting there, practically yelling at the screen, “say something!! damn it!” And what does he do? Forcibly kiss her?!?!? What?!?! It would have been better if he just holds her tightly and let her cry/vent in his arms.

    • 13.4 mar

      i’m okay with the hug, it seems genuine from Soo’s side, he wants Young to calm down. but i don’t think the kiss was necessary, what i had in mind is “Are you trying to make her calmer or angrier?”. Being hugged at least make her immobile, she has time to calm down by staying put, but being kissed forcefully will only enrage her even more. Perhaps Soo’s just hold his feeling for so long, it came bursting out when he confirm that Young knows who he is. Lust is a weird thing i guess, if it is what Soo feels.

  14. 14 Roggy

    Hhhmmm the show really needs a time out. Its been soo weird watching the show already… but then the kisses. I just can’t. Can’t.

  15. 15 Jale

    Actually the forced hug and kiss to me was Soo’s way of trying to hang on to her. He was struggling with her as a way of letting her know he wasn’t willing to let her go so easily. It wasn’t about a hug or a kiss it was the only way to make her listen to him without words. He’s been lying to her all this time, but what words could he have said that she could believe wasn’t just more lies.

    Personally, I wish he could have said that in the beginning he was conning her for money to save his life, but that day at the train station when he saved her from the train, everything changed for him. It wasn’t his life he wanted to save anymore, but hers. I wish he had said that all the fun trips and happy times they spent together was to make her happy and a chance to stay close her until his time was up.

    Ah to have been the writer of this confession during their time in the family cabin. If only…

    • 15.1 Do-ra-ma

      Ah, your analysis of that scene is probably more on the dot than what I thought. Yeah, it’s him desperately trying to hold onto her and the only way to get her to ‘listen’ then and there is with action than words.

      • 15.1.1 roake

        Agreed. I think the key word here is “desperate”. I can sense his desperation and accept it. I think others scoff at this scene because it isn’t a romantic reaction. He isn’t being a gentleman here, and I really didn’t expect him to have the “correct” reaction all the time.

        His action was absolutely unpleasant, wrong even, but it doesn’t make it any less real. I can definitely see a thug like him reacting that way even if it’s wrong.

  16. 16 Do-ra-ma

    I think…the last scene was MEANT to be uncomfortable. The buildup wasn’t pointing to anything other than, and I knew it wasn’t gonna result in anything happy either (especially given Young’s characterization). What I saw was Soo’s utter desperation and hopelessness. It was not rational, but I don’t think it was meant to be. Soo’s character has been on the precipice for…how many episodes now? We saw how he nearly came to blows with Wang the previous episode. This was him grasping at straws trying to make amends with action rather than with words (this is what I saw). I’m not saying that was the correct course for him (opposite in fact), but this is a drama, and it needs, well, DRAMA, to operate.

    What I like about this show the best is how truly three-four-five-six-etc. dimensional these characters are. Nobody, NOBODY, in this show is without flaws. And that was a very-wrong-thing-to-do-at-that-moment by Soo. And, I think it was meant to be exactly that. We’re nearing the end game, so there need to be these moments where characters…well, screw up. Now it becomes a question of how – if at all – will they work it out? How will they resolve their issues?

    • 16.1 kaye

      Exactly! Since the beginning, Soo had the hard time explaining/expressing himself in words (i.e. when Jinsung discovered about the pill and told him that he is against killing OY and he didn’t mind explaining) and it is out of character if he will instantly do it in that situation. Plus the fact that he is guilty, he just played along with OY’s. I think it’s his way of punishing himself too.

      I know his desperation and I totally understand that, but, since I’m a woman, that last scene was so uncomfortable and I can’t judge right now and want to wait for episode 14 since I think they will still have so many things to discuss, after all they will stay for a night in the cabin.

      • 16.1.1 Curioser And Curiosor

        @ Do-ra-ma and @kaye — what you say makes a lot of sense to me. I’ve been think about ep.13 quite a bit and what struck me, more than the forced embrace and kiss themselves, were everything that led up to it, namely, how Oh Young’s words make it clear that she needs words from Oh Soo in order to ease the pain he has inflicted, yet throughout the drama, it is clear that Oh Soo is at his inarticulate worst in moments of acute emotional distress.

        I don’t see acquiescence in Oh Young relaxing at the end — whether or not she kissed him back, her last words in ep. 13 suggest to me that she is exerting her will to stop fighting for. Someone mentioned earlier that despite his physical capacity to hold her even as she struggles, Oh Soo is not the one in control. Without making excuses for him, I see that he, too recognizes and accepts that when he finally lets go of her — he still visibly shaking, she collected and saddened as she intones, “Now, for us, it is really over?”

        Many are noticing Oh Soo’s futile physical force. Few (or none?) are paying attention to Oh Young’s articulate strength of will.

        If you are to, you can see the whole discussion in context here.

        • Curioser And Curiosor

          I meant to write: “…stop fighting for what she believed was a relationship built on trust.”

          [Typos are the bane of my existence.]

        • Curioser And Curiosor

          and…”If you care to, you can see…”


        • Ivoire

          Hello Curioser And Curiosor ,

          I just read your page (following your link above) and man, do you write beautifully. Thank you for being another person dissecting what is going on in this drama with us, and for giving us ways to understand better the characters in this drama. I love how deep your thought process goes.
          Also, I had seen that you had left me a message in the comment section of episode 10 and I responded (though late). I don’t know if you ever saw my response. Just thought I would let know.

          • Curioser and Curiosor

            Thank you for your generous words of encouragement, Ivoire!

            @ HeadsNo2: I’ve been thinking about what you said about that forced embrace and about the very strong, negative feelings viewers have expressed about it and I daresay I think that these reactions are an important part of this story. How?

            From the beginning, this drama has been giving us quite a few difficult and complex ethical questions to think about by presenting us with a hero who perpetrates a terrible trust-violating fraud against our heroine grom the get-go and yet becomes sympathetic, even endearing. So it has been easy to let the ethical questions slide as we found reasons to champion our flawed Oh Soo.

            And then it occurred to me a couple of days ago that, despite the emotional difficulty it entails, the writer has stayed true to the initial challenges posed by this story: Oh Soo has to be held accountable, not just by Oh Young, but also by us, the viewers, for the terrible sin of violating trust stemming from the fraud he perpetrated.

            I think that in the poetic logic of the narrative, that shocking and repulsive kiss at the end of ep.13 episode effectively serves as an emotional wake up call, a reminder that nothing mitigates the violence of the fraud Oh Soo has persisted in perpetrating from the moment he decided to pose as her brother — not even the eventually genuine feelings that have been motivating him to stake his life on saving Oh Young’s life (from herself and from her illness). The complete discussion is too long to post on this thread, but you can see it here if you feel inclined to find out more.

    • 16.2 roake

      Could not agree with you more.

      It was a flawed reaction from a flawed character.

    • 16.3 Betsy Hp

      @Do-ra-ma: “I think…the last scene was MEANT to be uncomfortable.”

      *nods* That’s the only thing keeping me from total turn-off — that the scene wasn’t shot as romantic. There wasn’t any music so the sound of their struggle was all you heard, and Young was definitely fighting him off.

      The question I have is why? Why have Soo do something like that? Did he think it would win her over? Was it the only action or expression he could think of? Was this him at an ultimate low point?

      I’m hoping ep. 14 comes with some clarifiers or something.

      • 16.3.1 booboo

        In my POV, Soo has always been this character whose actions speak louder than words. He’s also this greedy and selfish type, especially since he’s gambler. I had to chuckle at the thoughts that all these while, he can easily get girls into bed with him but he practically had to beg from Young just to stay close to her.

        He’s always had things going his way (I mean gambling, girls and any other g-related word? Heheh). And he never felt guilty hurting anyone. So maybe that part of him is still in there despite how remorseful he feels towards deceiving Young.

        He’s used to being violent though so when he’s frustrated enough coming to term with his own feelings and listening to Young being angry at him, he lashed out his emotions with the only way he knows how to, that is the forced kiss. He cant really punch her cos he’s in love with her but he’s yet to take control of his violent self.

        Just to reiterate what others have pointed out here, his actions are not justifiable, it is definitely wrong for him to do so. But we see him stop and I believe it was the look of regret that he gave right after that kiss. He was too engulfed in his emotions that he forgot to think before he act. That’s his flaw there, among others of course.

    • 16.4 mrshobbes

      Hmmm….you raise a very good point. I never thought of it that way. I agree that the very imperfection of these characters is what keeps me coming back, but that last scene really made me wince and almost hate Soo. But if perhaps that was the intention, well…I’m sayin’ he should definitely give us some MAJOR character redemption etc etc in the next few episodes.

      And because I was feeling eeeew about the scene, I scrolled up so I could giggle at this. AGAIN:

      “But he won’t get anything out of the Gangster Wannabe who’s sworn revenge on him, because Moo-chul didn’t let him join in any reindeer games.”


    • 16.5 Babablue

      This. The scene was not meant to be romantic, anyone who sees it as romantic or something meant to be romantic has weird ideas. This is not teaching people that it’s okay to force someone, how is it ok since OY left him? She meant and said it clearly, with this – it’s all over.

      It’s not about excusing OS, he just did something wrong at that moment, and he realizes it if you look at his expression. Why OY stopped struggling and responded for a bit was because she sees it as the finality of their relationship. He crossed the line but she still loved him. Goodbye for her doesn’t mean she stopped loving him.

      We can see throughout the series that OY is a very forgiving and understanding person. The recaps here obviously think that doesn’t make sense, how could you forgive someone who made you blind? But that’s why I love OY’s character. She has endless heart, she creates excuses for people who don’t deserve them, she always held some belief that they are not as bad as they seem. She tries to understand those that wronged her and the fact she wanted to go on this trip alone means she still trusted him to not harm her / kill her for money.

      This is very different from SG. In SG, the female finally relented and they slept together, everything is fine. In here nothing is fine. The fact that she didn’t slap or talk about it doesn’t mean it’s fine. Sometimes there is nothing you can say but just leave.

  17. 17 Mars

    Yeah! Show you really shouldn’t have….

  18. 18 Chimera

    I’ve just been following the recaps but now this show is officially off the to-watch list for me. I can watch shows with flaws, even shows with elements I actively dislike but sexual violence played up for romance or drama is a deal breaker for me. Unless the show addresses this brilliantly enough to make me change my mind in the next episode, which frankly I don’t expect. A pity cause I was looking forward to marathoning this after my exams. 🙁

    • 18.1 Fun-Lugha

      Frankly I’d say that’s ur loss! Cuz this drama is so much more than some forced intimacy scene in the dying episodes to boot! It’s a well written plot with some serious life lessons to be learnt. Not without its flaws of cuz but am yet to watch a 100% perfectly written/acted/directed….drama tbh. To each his own of cuz…

      • 18.1.1 Chimera

        Like I said, I don’t have a problem with flawed shows. I love flawed characters; my only limit is that I don’t have patience with trying to understand the manpain of heroes who cross the line into sexual assault. It diminishes my enjoyment of the good points of the story and I’d rather not subject myself to that. Your mileage may vary, of course, and that’s fine with me. People have different hot buttons and sexual assault by characters the audience is supposed to sympathise with is one of mine.

        • yellowcake

          Yep. Agree to everything.

        • skelly

          In general, I agree – I didn’t watch Missing You because I felt the sexual assault – esp. of a minor – was egregious and disgusting; even a melo can go too far, and I usually stay away from melos anyway because I don’t like unhappiness just for its own sake.
          But I did not feel that this was egregious – it was the natural result of both their characters and the plot. Frankly, I did not find it surprising or shocking. Nor did I feel that Soo was asserting dominance (if he really wanted to dominate her, do you really think a kiss would have been the end? He just beat a doctor to a pulp.); he has not been in control of the relationship since about episode 3, and this was yet more reactionary flailing while he tries to convince Young to rescue him. Maybe she will, maybe she won’t, but the decision-making rests with her. Couple dynamics are messy and complicated, and one person’s obvious sexual assault is another person’s lover’s spat – or maybe just the overture. Thank God there isn’t thought police or a camera in every room, judging what goes on in every person’s relationship because being with someone hip to hip for hours, days, years on end is at least once or twice going to get ugly.

          She has more power over this situation than the last time he kissed her, when she was asleep…and where was the howling about sexual assault then? (But then the violins were playing, and he was weak and crying, and it was only one little kiss). This was raw and ugly and real, so it is much easier to slap that label on it. But for me, this one is even more complicated, and less of an “assault,” than that first kiss.

          • pogo

            …and the irony is that, after what happened in I Miss You, the subject was actually handled with care and sensitivity and the drama took quite a bit of time pointing out how someone who’d been through what its heroine had, would be freaked out by any show of force against her from a man.

            In general, I don’t think the mere fact of a drama featuring sexual assault is going to take it off my to-watch list so much as the manner in which the subject is dealt with. To take a recent example, Nice Guy – a show I love – featured a character almost getting raped and killing someone in self-defence……and then basically villainises her for killing the guy. Here, at the very least the scene appears to be acknowledged as messed-up and wrong by the show itself (like Betsy said, no sweeping background music and Young walks away)

    • 18.2 Lea

      Personally I think you should still definitely see it, because 1. There is a huge difference between following recaps of a drama and actually watching the drama (especially with this one) -there’s SO MUCH unsaid emotions and feelings that by merely reading a recap it can really take an entire scene out of context.
      2. Everyone’s opinions and feelings are different, one person may be dumbfounded or disgusted by a scene where as another might find it enlightening or understanding.

      Forced advances are definitely offensive and repulsive and Wrong. I can remember a few dramas where I felt that way, one was Secret Garden which we all know, and the other Coffee Prince.
      But to me this entire incident felt desperate, flawed and irrational on his part. It was not an act played up for sexual tension between the OTP, it was an error, a screw up, and you could feel it all the way through.

      For me at least, I think this drama is still right on track, all the characters are precisely unwinding how I thought they would, and everyone’s actions feel real. But really, all that matters is how you feel about it after getting to know the characters in earnest. I hope you watch it, cause it really is breathtaking 🙂

  19. 19 mystisith

    *sigh*. I knew that scene would revive the same old debate again.
    I didn’t find the scene beautiful to look at but I thought it was very meaningful. It’s that point in the story where the emotions are so strong on both sides that it has to explode and an angry kiss is one of the ways. Those 2 characters can be way more hurtful with their words and their lies, in my opinion. We know there is romantic love on both sides, we know there is physical attraction on both sides but there is also a big misunderstanding, and anger. What I need to know now in order to completely acknowledge that kiss, is the complete reaction of OY. That, we will know in the next episode. Morally speaking, kissing a sleeping girl (like in a previous ep) who believes that you are her brother (still pfft from my point of view but whatever) and without knowing for sure that she likes you “in that way” is far more disturbing to me.

    Forced kisses in dramas:
    Some are hot, some are desperately romantic and some are just plain repulsive or shocking. Other bloggers did posts about this so let’s just say that google is your friend. For some women, it’s a big NO, complete deal breaker. For me, 3 things condition my reaction:
    – The INTENTION behind the kiss: Is it a control attempt? Is it to be clear about the feelings without using words? Is it an erotic game between the 2? Is it a hardcore version of the surprise kiss to intimidate the 2nd guy coincidentally standing behind the kissed person?
    – The IMPLICIT acceptance of the receiver: If without any doubt, the character gave me prior hints that he/she LOVES the other party romantically, then it’s OK with me.
    – The EXPLICIT acceptance: I can take a bit of manhandling but I absolutely can’t tolerate physical violence nor tricks like the use of drugs, alcohol and so on. If the kissed person doesn’t give a red light afterward (slap, knee on the groin, bite… you get the drift), then it’s OK with me. Now, EVEN in that case, it’s tricky to have a definite judgement on the situation: Who remembers the kiss/slap/kiss in IRIS? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aio05ErmTA It could honestly be seen as sexual harassment from the outside… and it’s not, once you know the whole story.

    Sidenote: How many times in this drama OY slapped or hit OS with her cane, just because she was confused and hurt and scared? It shocked me and I feel like there is a double standard here (I know, she’s blind and helpless. Still, it’s violence and I didn’t like it.) I guess it’s a question of personal sensibility and history. Heads, we’ll have to agree that we disagree.
    Thanks for the recap anyway.

    • 19.1 kaye

      You have a point there and I’m agreeing with you. I admit I am disturbed at the last scene as a woman but oh well I need to hold judgment until I see the next episode. It’s a cliffhanger and they will be stuck for a night in that house so a lot of things will happen and looking forward to that.

    • 19.2 Betsy Hp

      “Morally speaking, kissing a sleeping girl (like in a previous ep) who believes that you are her brother (still pfft from my point of view but whatever) and without knowing for sure that she likes you “in that way” is far more disturbing to me.”

      Hmm… Interesting point. Makes me wonder why that scene didn’t bother me, while this last one did. Maybe because it was meant to be something just for Soo? Not something for Young to have to feel and react to? (Yeah… that still sounds pretty skeevy when I write it out like that.)

      But the hug/kiss was definitely something he was forcing on her, forcing her to take, to accept, to feel. So he was crossing a boundary that the sleep-kiss didn’t cross, to my mind. Because she was already comfortable with them being together while sleeping. So his coming into her room, sitting on her bed, wasn’t entering the creeper-zone. Because she’d given him permission.

      • 19.2.1 Ivoire

        I agree with you. I felt that the 1st kiss was more for Soo, though it kept OY thinking. For this one, I also felt him forcing her to take it, which was part of why I used the expression “branding himself on her,” in my earlier comment. And I did feel that he had crossed a boundary as well.

    • 19.3 mumof3

      thank you mystisith…. agree completely with you..

    • 19.4 crazedlu

      totally with you, mystisith.

  20. 20 Ben

    I extremely agree with you. The point that you said the whole kiss scene just made Soo still comes out as a terrible human being. i am entirely upset since Soo is my favorite character and his character development through the episodes is daebak until…..that scene.
    Him forcing the kiss to a girl he hurts just take back his ‘womanizer’ character. Argh why? WHY?!
    But i’m sure this drama won’t disappoint me once more. i’m still expecting this drama will lead us to good ending, although one of both our favorite characters may die. Please winter, i’m begging you!

  21. 21 panshel

    What is up with Jo In Sung always force-kissing his female leads!? I am so over it. -_-

    • 21.1 kaye

      I think he is just lucky or cursed? that he is always given a character to portray that is always unlikeable.

  22. 22 Brenda

    Yup, that kiss didn’t sit well with me either. I was cringing the entire time hoping it would end. If there was any way he could of begged for forgiveness or tried to explain himself. . .that wasn’t it.

  23. 23 Fun-Lugha

    But can u blame the writers? In this kdramaland where its considered romantic & manly to wrist grab a girl (we call it assault where i come from!) and forcing women into cars when they clearly don’t want to is considered a grand gesture of love (that we call kidnapping!) can u really blame them?! If Kdrama audiences don’t approve of these kinds of scenes then they are like 20 years too late! Am thinking this is more of an international fans concern than Koreans’ watching in Korea. Cuz considering k-netizens complaints at the smallest of things, if such scenes had not sat too well with them then this drama might have been looking at a fine or something of the sort by now! My 2 ‘pence’ anyways…

    • 23.1 Ivoire

      I agree with you…

  24. 24 Arhazivory

    I also kept saying ‘no! don’t do that….stop it!’ and I closed my eyes too. -_-‘

  25. 25 BluPerry

    The Kiss is just not right. Should have stop with a hug. Camera CUT.

    Soo’s “hesitant almost-kisses” up until now, which show his restraints which are as soft as snowflakes as expressed in the song. … these scenes were more exciting than force-kissing.

  26. 26 Gidget

    Great recaps Heads!

    First off: “his tick-like resilience”. Bahahahahahaha. Just took a drink when I read that. It almost ended up all over my computer.

    Thinking about your last recap, I’m with you. There’s something that feels forced about the direction they’ve taken Young and Su’s characters. They established her as a very smart person with a good memory. She could remember people by the sound of their voice and even by their scent. Yet even though she had a lengthy encounter with Su at the outset, she somehow just can’t remember him? Also, she is a person with legitimate trust issues. But as soon as someone bears a slight resemblance to the brother she hasn’t seen since she was 6 years old (or whatever it was), she immediately overcomes those issues? Hmmmm

    Then in this episode we see a bookend personality transplant in Su where he goes from being reformed and caring to demonstrating squickily aggressive behavior toward her. They could have made it less squicky by playing it like the passionate kiss/surrender scene in Me Too Flower. But instead they chose to go the creepily aggressive route.

    They could have made a more believable storyline by implying that Young never completely trusted Su – but after hearing in her brothers letter that Su was a good guy and the only one her brother could trust – she decides to go with the charade. She knows she’s dying and wants someone around her she can trust. In the process she falls in love. In the process of trying to save his life, he falls in love. But instead the show defies the logic of the characters and tells us that she was completely fooled and he is a guy that – when the con is over – doesn’t care when he’s seriously violating boundaries.

    The question is why would they do that? The only thing that seems to benefit from the storyline that they created is that she really started having squicky feelings for someone she thought was her brother. And for him, no doesn’t mean no. Conclusion: It seems that the main aim of the show was to push all the wrong boundaries and force a weird voyeurism on its audience. It’s Korean drama, flasher-style.

    Ugh. Some images/concepts you just don’t want put in your brain.

    So I agree: show go sit in the corner and think about what you just did. And you’re grounded too.

    • 26.1 Betsy Hp

      Young is highly intelligent, but she’s not Superwoman. To expect her to not fall for the con when the con is what she’d been hoping for since she was six years old… No one is that coldly logical. (Even Spock would have a moment of, “maybe…?”)

      Especially since Soo based the specific memory tests she set out for him. And then, of course, he really was on her side when she had that breakdown and begged him to be someone she could trust. So he was speaking truth when he said yes, I’ve got you, you can trust me, you’re not alone.

      Remember, Young’s choice was trust Soo or trust Wang (the woman she knew was responsible for her being blind). When that’s the choice in front of you, getting the cotton candy thing right is a mighty big deal.

      (I’m… still confused about Soo forcing that hug and kiss on Young. Not sure it’s out of character but… not an aspect of his character I like seeing highlighted.)

      • 26.1.1 Betsy Hp

        *passed the specific memory…

      • 26.1.2 Gidget

        I can see what you’re saying. My impression was created from the order of events. There was a period of time for distrust to take root before he was able to get the details of her childhood sorted out. I think that in normal human psychology (vs dramaland psychology) that sort of entrenched distrust would be more difficult to overcome. More so for a wealthy person, who would be VERY accustomed to people coming to them with an agenda. These types are usually very careful about who they let into their life.

        I’m not saying that the show couldn’t have come up with a realistic way for Young to suspend a certain amount of disbelief. Rather, the show has gone a route that asks too much suspension of disbelief from its viewers.

        • Betsy Hp

          For me, the trust Young showed — despite the little pings of warnings she’d register than ignore — was set up by how desperately she wanted her brother to appear. So her distrust was of a brittle sort — easy to crack, because while she had all sorts of reasons to distrust she desperately, desperately needed to trust.

          Young was so isolated, surrounded by people she didn’t dare trust. (Not even her lawyer because she knew he was in love with Wang.) Finally one person arrived who she could trust and she hardened herself to testing him but she was still hoping for him to be who he said he was. Her emotional fragility regarding her brother was exactly where Soo pushed.

          Which I think works with real-life psychology actually. HOWEVER! That’s only my opinion and why it worked for me. 🙂 I think the drama did play a cat-and-mouse game with viewers (“does she know? does she not?”) and they may have been too clever for their own good. Because Young did hold Soo at arms length for a time. Again, it worked for me because I thought of it as more of her desperation. But thinking she did know… I can see where that came from.

    • 26.2 skelly

      Bookend personality transplant? I beg to disagree. Reformed and caring? No, obviously he cared, but he didn’t tell her the truth, did he? He was still trying to get the money somehow, keeping the con going, and we only think of him as “reformed” because we happen to like what he was doing. But he was still fighting with people, telling lies, manipulating people and situations for his own ends – he fell in love, but did this really reform him? No, it gave him a slightly more noble goal but he continued to use the same shady means.

  27. 27 Christy

    Sigh. Not okay. I agree that it’s gotten too weird already, but a forced kiss on top of everything? Makes the other stuff sort of seem like the tip of the iceberg. If the writers are going to put something like this in the script, there better be a damn good requital in the next episode. Soo, back to your room. Now.

  28. 28 Betsy Hp

    “He already knows she knows, and if she didn’t know he knows she knows (I know), then she’s making it pretty clear now that SHE KNOWS.”

    Favorite line of the recap, hands down. 🙂 Thanks for this, HeadsNo2.

    On a totally different note: Yeah, that ending… I am glad it was shot without music — so it wasn’t supposed to be romantic at least. I’m just… what are we supposed to take from this? About Soo, I mean?

    I’m not thrilled (by a long shot) that this is where he went. I’m not sure it’s out of character, but it’s definitely not an aspect of the character I wanted to see expressed.

    I’ll be waiting for ep. 14 to see where he goes from there. (Also, I totally appreciate all the comments here. A lot of food for thought.)

  29. 29 altair

    I think the drama needed the forced embrace/kiss scene. The characters (Soo and Young) are sooo strong-willed and their context is soo powerful that a mellower show down between them would have fell flat and it would have dissapointed me! Well done, writers!

    • 29.1 skelly

      I agree. I felt it was exactly where their characters were headed, even though we did NOT want them to go there. I’m not sending show/writers to the corner – No, I’m giving them an A and presenting a bouquet of flowers.

  30. 30 Anduril

    “Gangster Wannabe who’s sworn revenge on him, because Moo-chul didn’t let him join in any reindeer games” Total sidenote in the drama, but best part of the recap. He he he.

    I was angry about the forced kiss too. Although, I thought “bad writer, how you do that to my hero” it really took me out of the drama. I understood his motivations but still couldn’t except it. I like reading these comments and am going with the suggestion that it was suppose to be wrong and that he realizes it was wrong. I can continue enjoy that drama believing that.

    I loved how Soo said “I need a drink, before I spill my gut to you”. It was natural and funny. I just wish ‘Product Placement’ wasn’t flashing through my mind also.

    One thing I did think about. Young wishes he could have given her those excuses. The problem is that those are the excuses he used at the beginning of the drama to explain living terribly. He used them to spin sympathy points from girls. He has made the decision to live differently, to not be ruled by the past. So, “no excuses” and “I dreamed of a different life after I met you” is the only truth he can give.

    • 30.1 Gidget

      That’s an interesting take on it.

  31. 31 Sajen

    so Do-ra-ma alrady said what I wanted to say only better, so I’ll say something else.

    This story, this world, these characters are more real than pretty much any drama not written by Noh Hee Kyung.

    Even a horrible person like secretary Wang is perfectly realistically flawed and as such almost someone we can sympathize with. Do we always understand what they do? No, but then again the majority of us come from good families, with good people around us and we were raised with love. So to assume we always understand what they do or know is just a little arrogant, is it not?

    Now let’s look at Soo an orphan who grew up in an orphanage and on the streets. We know that at his core he is a good person but he’s no prince charming or knight in shining armor. He is gruff, short tempered, and has poor communication skills. Almost every decision he has made has been questionable and the wrong thing to do, from our perspective. Yet we let him go trusted him even, because we knew at heart he was a good person.

    On to the kiss was it wrong? To us, to me, yes it was very wrong but from Soo’s warped, hurt, panicked, desperate perspective it was the only thing he could do to try to hold on to the woman he loves, the woman he was willing to give his life for, Young. Does that give him a free pass and make his actions right, no, it makes them real. And that my friends is the brilliance of Noh Hee Kyung and her writing.

    That being said I’m not really trying to defend Soo I’m trying to get you to see the world through his eyes, as much as you can, and understand that all the uncomfortableness of the ending scenes was intentional.

    However I am not now nor will I ever be a woman and will never truly understand the horror of having unwanted attentions forced on me. So if my clumsy attempts at getting others to look at this from Soo’s perspective and understand if not forgive him offends any women I sincerely apologize.

    • 31.1 booboo

      Well said. This drama is a piece of art and I say that because we don’t just stop and agree to one opinion. There are many ways to interpret this drama and the characters and it makes for a good literary discussion. It’s also great to read the comments here cos it makes you think and reflect. If only there’s a way I can study this instead of Shakespeare. Haha

    • 31.2 skelly

      No apologies needed, here; very well said!

  32. 32 jamie

    I was surprised to read everyone else’s opinions. To me, it seems so clear.

    For the last two episodes, Oh Soo has been swinging between extreme emotions of giddy hope and pitch black despair as the doctors have gone back and forth over Young. He seemed about to beat the one doctor to death, he could barely control himself with Secretary Wang.

    Any barriers/moral safeguards he’s had in place against physical violence has been eaten away, me thinks, due not only to the back and forth about Young’s condition, but also his own realization that it’s the end for him as well, since he’s trying to be the good guy.

    To me, the forced embrace and kisses were… understandable given who Oh Soo is and his condition at the time. Understanding isn’t the same thing as condoning it though.

  33. 33 Mumu's Mom




    • 33.1 Dewo

      Well, Mumu’s mom I get your point. And I agree about showing his love through touch. I also read God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy.
      But, please keep the writing in normal letters not capital ones. It hurts to the eye.

      • 33.1.1 Mumu's Mom

        i am so sorry— i had caps lock turned on and did not realize … my apologies

  34. 34 mamie

    I think the kiss is the sweetest thing to do to say I am sorry as OH SOO has to do. Of course different person having different personality and different romance expectation, but to someone like Oh Young, she need Oh Soo type of person to handle her. She need Oh Soo type. Not MH type. If I were Oh young, I woudn’t want him to just sit and do nothing as I angry and walk away of Him. If he love me, i want him to do whatever it take to keep having me. No matter what, OS knew that OY feel the same as him especially after she said, “For loving con man like you, I just have to blame it on my blindness.” She love him. So for me, what OH Soo did is perfectly ok. Its like saying, I am Sorry, I love you. But not by cheese word. OS want to tell OY that he love her more than he love him self up to the point where he even willing to be humiliated rejection. Remember, OS is not MC who love him self more than anything, and he will not do anything un cool even for the thing called love.

    For me, the writer is romantic. At least for my kind of person. And the kiss is OK for that situation. Peace

    • 34.1 Me

      Well said!

  35. 35 Lea

    I definitely enjoy your recaps Heads, there’s always an unexpected line that has me laughing to no end. And I can definitely respect your input in the drama, but I disagree with how this scene played out.
    This was definitely NOT out of character for Soo, all drama long he’s always elicited her emotions through action, either by taking her to places, hugging her, or forcing her to confront problems. He’s a very dynamic character, but the kiss held NO passion, and NO sexual expectancy. No words would get through to Young at that moment, she was practically out the door. He was desperate to show his feelings, heck he’s been desperate to show his feelings for almost five episodes now, restraint was out the window. He did what he thought he needed to do to get her to listen and understand how he feels.

    And I don’t believe for a SECOND that Young genuinely thought Oh Soo was her real brother. She has always been a perceptive and sharp character, even in this very episode how she used all those false memories to trick him. The problem lies in her extreme way of swallowing everything down, every suspicion, every uncertainty and holding on to that farce for DEAR LIFE.
    She knew, the revelation in the last episode wasn’t a revelation at all, it was the door of her suspicions opening and accepting the reality of them. All this time she was nailing that door shut, by innocent gestures but once she found out her true feelings of seeing this false oppa as a man, she desperately tried to put a stop to it -“this fake oppa may be fake but he’s still playing the part of my oppa so this shouldn’t happen” The last line in the episode she said it as a question, as in do we really need to part now?

    This drama has played out above and beyond what I expected, so much thought goes into every detail, every word said and unsaid it just takes my breath away.

  36. 36 anais

    Perhaps someone else has already said this and, while I’d love to read all the comments, I have to go to bed, so – in regard to the forced kiss – I did wonder if she stopped resisting not because she was giving into the kiss itself but she stopped struggling in order to get it over with as soon as possible. Of course, at first, I thought the writer was going the Secret Garden bed scene route. But then, very quickly, I found myself thinking this other possibility.

    Rape victims sometimes do this. They stop struggling physically and dissociate in order to get it over with as soon as possible. Young’s comment afterwards – that they were truly over after that moment – gave further credence to this possibility.

    I can’t imagine No Hee Kyung trying to use this pat narrative device. She’s too sophisticated to resort to this pandering. Or I hope.

    • 36.1 mystisith

      What you say about dissociation for rape victims is true but it’s not the case here. If you watch the kiss closely, at some point she kisses him back.

      • 36.1.1 kaye

        yup, so very true and it looks like she is giving in but he stopped and she looked like she’s still longing for the kiss to continue. The look on his face is a sign of regret that is why I’m confused, I don’t know how should I react.

    • 36.2 Indili

      You are so on point. Props to you for the most reasonable comment. I know some rape cases or forced kisses situations where the women just gave up resisting so the horrible situation would be over. I really hope that the drama address this properly in the next episodes :/

  37. 37 CrazilyAddicted

    “because Moo-chul didn’t let him join in any reindeer games.”
    I just gotta say, this line CRACKED ME UP.

    • 37.1 orangejasmine

      yes, this line was a winner hands down!!!

      thanks Heads for the recap. interesting to see the debate going on about the last scene.

  38. 38 Tastiger

    I understand the outrage about that last scene but I wasn’t surprised that Soo reacted that way. He is totally fighting for Young’s love and her rejection of him was what sent him over the edge.

    He knew she would hate him once she found out the truth but hoped there would still be some love left between them. Her violent reaction to him was something he couldn’t bear and the struggle to hug her was his desperate attempt to keep her from running away from him.

    Betrayal, trust, honesty, and Love all wrapped up in this emotional confrontation…..something horrific was bound to occur. The kisses I saw were just a culmination of all the frustration and desperation that has been building in Soo. He loves Young more than his own life. She is dying. He will die very soon. There is no future for them. If you were in that predicament can you understand why he did it?

    There is no doubt that in the next episode we should see Soo go through some major recrimination for his actions. He lost all reason at that moment and it will be interesting to see if he can get back on track with his relationship with Young.

    I still find it unbelievable that Young had No idea Soo was not her brother but I guess the writers needed that plot device for Soo to be the bad guy at the end of this episode.

    My opinions of that last scene have nothing to do with my personal thoughts on how a person is supposed to be
    treated. As a dramatic turning point so near the end it did capture my attention since my interest in the story was waning.

    • 38.1 Jackie

      yes, you said it beautifully. I couldn’t agree more

  39. 39 bernie

    this freaking writer…

  40. 40 tiffshin

    Haha thanks for the recap! And for ur perspective on this weeks second ep 🙂 insightful and very entertaining hehe

  41. 41 bbee

    thanks for the recap, as always its good. Liked the episode, considering that we have been on a marathon all these episodes, last one was almost near the goal so there is a sense of calm, all secrets disclosed. Soo took the relationship to next level, forcing Young to acknowledge the love he feels for her or forcing Young to confront the feeling she had towards him …good going … !!! Only wish is they come terms towards their love and we get some good moments to watch …they are such a lovely pair wish to see them more …

  42. 42 Ivy

    Thanks for the recap!
    This episode is so messed up and annoying…
    Uhh, can this mess possibly be sorted out?

  43. 43 KDrama Fan

    Thanks for the recap Heads.

    Appreciate you recapping this drama especially when you aren’t happy with how things are going.

    After reading your recap I watched the last scene as I disagreed with you previously re: the appropriateness of Y sleeping with S.

    (Personally I didn’t think it was weird at all that Y and S slept together when she thought he was her brother. I took it to be that as Y is still immature sleeping with her brother gave her comfort just as it would be to a child. Also I didn’t feel S acted untoward towards her at all.)

    After I watched the last scene I didn’t find it shocking at all. I felt it the kiss wasn’t a punishment but an effort for S to get her to recognize him as the guy who loves her and the one Y loves.

    So glad for this drama as it has put SHG back in my good books and raised my opinion of JIS’ acting.

    GO TW, TWB!

  44. 44 Min sun

    Explosive and passionate- I think this is how the scene was to be tonally…. I am one of the ones who cringed and cried “noooooooo” when Soo forced kissed Young, but I can’t say that I didn’t feel the tension and passion in the room. I also thought that the shots of Soo’s trembling hands as he let go of her and Young’s relinquishing hands was so poignant and spoke louder of their yearning/hatred/remorse/self-loathing than the kiss or the hug. It was like Soo’s “I love you” and “goodbye” all rolled into one raw, intense, impetuous moment??

    • 44.1 Me

      I agree with you. The scene is tense due to the intense and contradictory feelings , not violent. The dialogue was heavy (and very well written.) They love each other. After all, she responded to the kiss.

  45. 45 mystisith

    “There are none so deaf as those who will not listen. There is no one more blind than the who does not wish to see.”
    Seems appropriate for the character of OY and maybe not only for her…

    • 45.1 yellowcake

      Oh hey. If you want to call me out, go ahead and do it. No need for passive aggressiveness.

      And applying this quote to someone who is actually blind? Good for you.

      • 45.1.1 mystisith

        I see than you noticed the allusion. Ever heard of irony of life or even second degree? I’m just taking a step back and smiling at myself.
        It’s not passive aggressiveness I’m using here: It’s humour mixed with a tiny bit of popular wisdom. You on the other side, feel extremely defensive and I frankly find your outbursts of feminism quite over the top and out of subject.
        That said, don’t worry: I’ve been in the same situation as you on this blog and I didn’t die from it. That’s the beauty of dramabeans: Everyone is free to express his feelings.
        Like I said for Heads, let’s agree to disagree.

        • yellowcake

          Oh thank you, wise one, for imparting me wisdom on how to survive the trials of someone disagreeing with me. I was really quaking in fear over the comments of people who I don’t even know, and who don’t even know me.

          At least I didn’t resort to talking down to you and trying to make myself feel all clever by using “humour mixed with a tiny bit of popular wisdom.” But hey, whatever makes you feel better.

          • mystisith

            You believe now I’m trying to scare you? Er… Absolutely not. And I’m not belittling you either, by the way. I’m just strongly disagreeing and trying to bring arguments to the table.
            Just look at all the comments on this thread and see if maybe, just maybe, there is some little truth in them.
            Can I just point out that you act like you know me too? Not coherent with your own previous comments.

      • 45.1.2 Mishmash

        If the shoe fits.

        If I called out “idiot”, and you turned around, it is almost the same thing as admitting that you are one.

    • 45.2 kaye

      i can’t help myself laughing on bed.

  46. 46 John

    Jin-sung ! Watch out! Perhaps Moo-chul will protect him.

    This show is so pretty. Song Hye-gyo and Jo In-sung look gorgeous.

    Can’t wait until next week.

  47. 47 Kakdoogee

    It’s a melo people, not feminism 101. Compared to the scene in que sera sera, this was pretty Brady bunch. Deeply flawed characters that we find interesting for their progression in the course of a wacky storyline. If you don’t like it stop watching, but bet you won’t.

    • 47.1 picklemonster

      *Thumbs up*

    • 47.2 ilikemangos


    • 47.3 Mishmash


      I bet the show’s producers won’t shed a tear for those who don’t….after all, not everybody can be pleased. Just ask any president.

  48. 48 Arawn

    This discussion makes me feel that there are few rules kdrama characters must abide not to be deemed as horrible characters. Heroine can be as violent towards the hero as she wants as long as she’s not “stupid”. Hero can beat up other people, treat them coldly and cruelly etc. but if he even touches the heroine in a wrong way, that’s it. He’s done, total deal breaker, he’s a horrible, disgusting person with no way to redeem himself. He’s as good as a rapist, practically.

    Honestly, for me Soo was at his WORST when he beat up that doctor. I’m sorry but kissing a woman forcefully does not even COMPARE to the beating of a person in to a bloody pulp. Considering how long Soo was manhandling the doctor he had to be in a pretty horrible state. So should I really gather from this conversation that almost killing a person by violently beating him makes a person less disgusting than forcing a kiss upon a woman? Nice. Very nice.

    • 48.1 ffiza

      I know, right? I actually don’t really have that problem with that forced kiss (maybe because I’ve watched too many k-drama). Therefore, I was surprised to see almost all comments are about the kiss, while there is hardly any about the doctor’s beating.

      Having said that, even though I don’t encourage violent, I have to admit that deep down I wish Soo would inflict some physical pain on Secretary Wang on previous episode. She is just horrible human being.

    • 48.2 Anduril

      I think it is more that we care about Soo and Yong and their relationship. Soo wailing on Dr. Whats-his-name just doesn’t affect our emotions as much.

    • 48.3 picklemonster

      Yea I was much more disturbed when Soo beat up the doctor! >.< And also the scene when he almost strangled Secretary Wang, that scene was so intense and I was for a moment terrified that Noh Hee Kyung would make his character lose all sanity. I've seen dramas where the hero started off innocent and misunderstood, but eventually he was so mistreated that he ended up taking matters into his own hands, lost control, and killed the people who wronged him. For a moment, those scenes really made me scared for Soo, because he finally softened his heart and wanted to become a good person, and I didn't want his love for Young to in turn, make him into a monster.

      And that forced kiss….do you guys even watch American TV shows like Gossip Girls, etc? Enough said.

      • 48.3.1 Mishmash

        Same here. Soo beat up the doctor and left him in the middle of the road. I am surprised he did not get thrown in jail for assault.

  49. 49 Abbie

    All I can say is “Ew” at that last scene, and “I see no good endings for anyone”. Sadness overload.

    Thanks for the recap, Heads!

  50. 50 ffiza

    Regarding Young’s actions and tying up loose ends, I feel like she has decided to take charge of her own life. She wants to get rid of Secretary Wang, her so-called fiance and finally Soo.

    If she is just preparing to die, she will cancel the surgery since she is in it only for oppa’s sake. I think now she is doing the surgery with the mindset if it goes well then good, and if it doesn’t then okay, she is dying anyway.

    I can understand why Soo did not try to explain his action. Young was furious, whatever he said will be just another excuse, another lie and well, he did wronged her.

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