860

Devil / Mawang: Wave of Japanese Support

.
I’m not keeping up with Devil/Mawang these days, but it still makes me glad to see quality programming still being appreciated, even if the drama isn’t winning its time slot.

“Japanese Fans Wish For Devil/Mawang’s Success with 10,000 Paper Cranes”
(日 팬들 ‘마왕’ 대박기원 종이학 1만개 갖고 한국 방문 밀물)

According to this article, Japanese fans are so looking forward to seeing Devil that they are sending 10,000 folded paper cranes in encouragement, wishing the kdrama success. They are also planning on visiting the filming location en masse on the 21st, in a city just outside of Seoul called Pyongtaek. They’ll come with the paper cranes as presents and gather at the set location at 2pm.

The series Resurrection (부활) was televised last year in Japan, and was recognized for its quality and earned Uhm Tae Woong popularity among Japanese fans. Upon learning of the upcoming Devil, which not only stars Uhm Tae Woong but is also directed and written by the same people who worked on Resurrection (dir. Park Chan Hong and writer Kim Ji Woo), Japanese fans have been eagerly anticipating the series. A fan expressed excitement at the thought of visiting the location and meeting the three stars, Uhm Tae Woong, Joo Ji Hoon, and Shin Min Ah, counting down the days to the sure-to-be-unforgettable event.

The location details, which had not been fully made public, were first publicly announced to media outlets on behalf of the Japanese fans, so they could come to the location on this day.

(I love reading about stuff like this — a give-and-take relationship between the production and the fans, which shows that the production realizes to whom they owe their successes, and the fans being grateful rather than entitled to the dramas they love. I’m also amazed, because no way in hell would American entities allow their fans anywhere this level of access — although probably for good reason, since there are so many crazies around, especially when we’re talking Hollywood. Still, I hear about things like Seven’s fan club sending lovely gestures like gift packages and food to the set of Goong S and I’m mystified that it’s actually safe to eat. I can’t be the only paranoid one! — especially not after the DBSK/Yunho poisoning incident by an anti-fan some months ago.)

.
source: http://www.newsen.com/news_view.php?news_uid=129511&code=100100

Tags:

860

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 02
More Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 1 of 5

1) Red yarn wrapped around the handles of the scissors used to cut out the printed syllables and words used in the letters sent to the recipients of the “Judgement” tarot cards.

Red yarn = fated relationships. So the scissors (and letters) are being used to cut the fated connections? Or are the scissors symbolically being used to cut short the lives of the recipients of the letters, a la the Greek Fates and Norse Norns?

2) The maker of the letters wears black leather gloves while doing so. Apparently s/he knows that touching them barehanded would leave traces detectable to a clairvoyant. [Tip of the hat to the Psi Corps telepaths in BABYLON 5 (1993-1998).]

3) Oh-soo's imperious father tells him that Lawyer Kwon is his savior.

4) GaLanTHus tarot cafe owner Gong Joo-Hee interrupts the meeting after Seung-ha arrives and prattles on about drinking the oolong tea she serves to reduce stress and anxiety. She states that she'd drawn a card that morning that indicated an important gathering would occur. She considers everyone's presence there that night to be fate, not coincidence, and the fulfillment of the prophecy. Off by herself, Hae-in finally sees Oh-soo's face in her psychometric vision as he turns away from the bright light.

GaLanTHus is probably spelled this way to facilitate syllabication of the foreign word. ;-)

5) Detective Lee teasingly calls Detective Shin “Madame Shin.” Near the end of the episode, Oh-soo does, too.

6) Back at GaLanTHus, in response to Oh-soo's query as to whether he was close with Lawyer Kwon, Seung-ha replies, “You could say that, because he's the teacher who taught me how misery can teach a lot of things.” This can be taken more than one way.

- continued -

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

- continued -
MAWANG - EPISODE 02
More Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 2 of 5

7) Oh-soo feels like he's met or seen Seung-ha previously, but the lawyer denies it. Earlier the detective had expressed surprise that he looked so young for a lawyer. He'd studied on his own, and presumably passed the bar before the rules changed. Prosecutor Jang Do-han in LOOKOUT sounds like Seung-ha's spiritual descendant in more ways than one.

8) Even after his boss, Detective Ban Chang-ho, tells Oh-soo how Hae-in's powers helped the police solve a case, he is unable to understand her clairvoyance, and wants to test her, but she refuses. Flashback to Detective Cha Gwang-doo interviewing the young Hae-in and believing her after another detective accused her of lying. Oh-soo strikes me as not very well educated, and pretty close-minded. He comes off like an ignorant know-it-all at times, but he does have the necessary instincts and awareness (street smarts) to be a police officer. – The next day, he goes to the library and apologizes to her.

9) Seung-ha's pro-bono appeal on behalf of inmate Kim Soon-ki is based on the fact that he was mercilessly bullied and harrassed all through middle school, and as a consequence, became overly-protective of himself. The victim's family sympathized with that assessment, and agreed to settle the case. (Did he commit manslaughter or cause an accidental death?) Na Suk-jin is having a meltdown in the courtroom as he hears the proceedings. He seems very worried at the prospect of Soon-ki's release from prison.

10) Na-hee's phone plays “Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring” when her husband calls as Suk-jin drives her to what sounds like a medical exam. He apologizes for being unable to accompany her. Her passenger side window reflects the same kind of trees as in episode 1's opening scene with the kids riding their bikes.
Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring (J.S. Bach), David Tolley - pianist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uiH4rXbPyA

11) When Detective Ban Chang-ho and his old colleague Cha Gwang-doo get together for a drink, the latter states that Lawyer Oh Seung-ha is very smart and passed the bar exam without attending college. To which Chang-ho replies, “Really? Then he's not human, he's a monster.” Yet another statement that can be taken more than one way.

12) In his conversations with his sons, politician, hotel magnate, and pater familias Kang Dong-hyun comes across as an obnoxious autocrat. Now we know where Oh-soo gets his attitude.

- continued -

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

- continued -
MAWANG - EPISODE 02
More Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 3 of 5

13) The scene during Mass in the white Catholic church is of the Agnus Dei, recited or sung when the host is broken after consecration. In the US, the English words are:

Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace.

The statues in the summer kitchen are of the Sacred Heart and St. Joseph with the Christ Child.

Hae-in goes over to fetch more rice for the lunch after Mass, and is surprised to encounter Seung-ha carrying out a large pan of it. After she takes it, Jo Dong-sub comes out of the shadows with a container of kimchi. He doesn't look well. I think he got injured in the altercation with Lawyer Kwon.

14) Hwang Soo-gun brings organic vegetables and a photo of two teenagers to Seung-ha, who calls him hyung. The picture is of Seung-ha and his elder brother. Soo-gun says it's already been 12 years. And this is the only photo of them.

15) Kim Young-chul gives a white teddy bear wearing a dress to a little girl who's scratching figures in the dirt by herself while other kids voices can be heard off camera. (Scratching figures in the dirt brings to mind the beginning of John's gospel, chapter 8. See #16, below.) He haltingly asks why she's alone and the others don't play with her. He tells her he's her friend from now on. He's dressed in black and smiles at her. At first I thought he was Seung-ha until I saw his face. The scene is kind of creepy to me.

-continued -

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 02
More Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 4 of 5

16) “The truth will not set your friends free. Article 11, Clause 1 of the Constitution.” Detective Lee recites the clause for Oh-soo: “Everyone is equal before the law.” To which he replies, “Except they're not.” Is he being a wiseguy, or dispassionately observing that the ideal is often ignored in practice?

The first sentence above refers to John 8:31-32, when the Pharisees and lawyers attempted to ensnare Jesus in the temple. The chapter begins with the account of the woman caught in adultery, to which Jesus famously replied, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” A later passage introduces the light-motif (pun intended) that applies to Hae-in.

12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. …

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. ...”

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8&version=NIV

In the earlier scene at GaLanTHus when Seung-ha stated that he had phoned Lawyer Kwon when the latter was at dinner, and Oh-soo had questioned him about it, the lawyer had said he had no reason to lie. But can we trust anything he (or any other character) says? Verse 44 underscored that for me.

17) Oh-soo runs into old friend and loanshark Yoon Dae-shik outside the police station. He's threatening a woman who owes him money, and refers to her daughter, Sora. He has a cough, which worries Oh-soo. Dae-shik warns his friend that Sun-ki may be getting released soon, and that he'll be a headache to the detective.

-continued -

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 02
More Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 5 of 5

18) Cut to the daycare schoolyard where Sora's mother questions her over who gave her the teddy bear.

19) Detective Lee and Oh-soo stake out the GaLanTHus tarot cafe after someone (Jo Dong-sub?) sent a tarot card there. He says the only thing he's afraid of is himself.

20) Cha Gwang-doo works in Seung-ha's office. Just before 6PM, Jo Dong-sub comes in to speak with the lawyer, who enters shortly after him. He doesn't have an appointment, and needs to talk.

21) Another package is delivered to the precinct as Oh-soo meets with Hae-in at the library with the tarot card and murder weapon (switchblade hunting knife) delivered to Lawyer Kwon for her to read. She sees the murder unfold, and asks to go to the crime scene. She recognizes the picture on the wall. She identifies the victim from the family portrait on his desk, and the alleged killer from the mugshot on Oh-soo's phone. He gets a call from Detective Lee, and drives Hae-in somewhere before returning to the precinct.

22) The package contains the tarot card “Justice” and another letter: “All points form a whole. Each and every one of them move closely together.” In the preview, Hae-in identifies the letter as a quotation from “Faust.” I haven't been able to identify the passage.

23) At home, Hae-in draws the “Justice” card.

24) At home, with tears in his eyes Seung-ha ignites the photo of him and his brother. Is he destroying the only existing evidence of his past life and family?

25) Next morning, Jo Dong-sub turns himself in at the precinct, but refuses to answer Oh-soo's questions. Seung-ha arrives and identifies himself as the alleged assailant's lawyer.

26) Detective Shin's earlier investigation revealed that Jo Dong-sub had received a letter while he was in prison, but it could not be obtained. His former wife/girlfriend revealed that he had received letters after his release.

27) Hae-in wears white fabric gloves while shelving books at the library. I suspect it is to protect herself from being overwhelmed with psychometric impressions during the course of the day.

0
4
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

Just some thoughts from your observations on MAWANG - EPISODE 02.

1) OOOOH that detail on the red twine wrapped scissors and fated relationships…

3) The relationship between Oh-Soo and Lawyer Kwon is repeated. In ep01 Oh-Soo’s father referred to Lawyer Kwon as Oh-Soo’s benefactor (in the translation I watched).

8) I am ever more suspicious of Ho-Soo’s street smarts. I suspect he is more of a rogue detective (with all that this role entails). Hence why his chief is called Band-aid.

His apology to Hae-In was not for his actions, but her response. This is a variation of the weasel words that cast the wronged person as at fault.

9) There must be serious friction already amongst Oh-Soo’s group. Soon-Ki appears to have been (is) Wangtta within their group. However, this situation was unsettled by Soon-Ki’s witnessing of Oh-Soo’s stabbing of Tae-Hoon. This awkward change in the power situation unsettles Oh-Soo’s group and I interpreted Sun-Jin’s discomfort in the courtroom during Soon-Ki’s trial being due to both: the Wangtta accusation being about him and Oh-Soo’s cohort; and the potential damage Soon-Ki could unleash at any time if cornered.

10) When Na-Hee and Sun-Jin are driving to the hospital (after the court scene) the car is framed to obviously show the reflected skeletal branches reaching over their car (normally these reflections will be minimized/removed with a polarizing lens but her their contrast has been exaggerated).

12) I agree, Oh-Soo exerts his power as if arm of the Congresman’s family cabal that he sees as above the law (as per Oh-Soo’s comments in episode 01 that the law shouldn’t set his rules…and his reputation for frequent assaults)

13) OOOOOH>…Great pick up on the text of the Agnus Dei,
I had forgotten that Seung-Ha was part of the church community feeding people. Is this MEPHISTOPHELES as greyfriar

Hae-In’s home is the only space not defined by grids. Instead her home is floral/filigree and the lounge room is festooned with plants.

Jo Dong-sub. I agree. Dong-sub looked injured in ep01 and now again at the church he appears to still be injured. How badly was he wounded so that when MEPHISTOPHELES intervened it would have been sufficient to change Dong-sub’s fate…to result in triggering Hae-In’s vision.

15) When Kim Young-chul gives the girl (Sora) the teddy bear is totally creepy.

16) “Everyone is equal before the law.”…“Except they're not.”….Rather than a noble critique of reality, I suspect this is a statement of Oh-Soo’s practice.

17) The loanshark Yoon Dae-shik is one of Oh-Soo’s gang at the stabbing 12 yrs ago.

23) Hae-In is repeatedly “seeing” the cards being sent to Oh-Soo. In episode one, Hae-In knocked the tarot cards off her table only to reveal the Judgment card that had been sent to Lawyer Kwon and Oh-Soo. Again she foresees the “Justice” tarot card sent to Oh-Soo.

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom January 6, 2018 at 6:03 AM,

1) "Red Ties" -- I just posted this track from the REBEL OST on my fan wall because it so nicely illustrates the idea. Although Gil-dong's first love was the gisaeng who later changed her name to Nok-soo when she entered court as a musician, it was her servant, Ga-ryung, who fell for him and ultimately captured his heart.

The rest of the OST is terrific! "Resurrection Lily" is an interesting one because of the show's imagery of Gil-dong's figurative death and resurrection. Or was it his Mighty Child powers enabling him to survive torture that would have killed a normal person? In the recap comments, the literary discussion on the novel and other referenced works was daebak.

3) There's all this emphasis on how much of a benefactor Lawyer Kwon is to Oh-soo and his family. And then Seung-ha claims him as an important teacher. Like the sword in Justice's hand on the tarot card, the parallels are double-edged, and cut both ways. In the subtitles I read, Dad calls the lawyer his son's savior. Enabler-in-Chief is more like it.

8) There's not much difference between Oh-soo and the bad guys he arrests. He may be even more of a thug than they are. This is a phenomenon that I noticed back in high school.

Thanks for explaining that non-apology by Oh-soo. I don't know if it's the subtitles I'm reading, or whether I'm just clueless. Or I cannot read his character. These are exactly the instances in which recaps save the day. ;-)

"Rogue cop" sounds right. Chief detective is called “Band-Aid”?! I don't think it was translated that way in my recaps, or if it was, it slipped past me. I'm experiencing serious information overload.

Not in my episode 2 observations:

Seung-ha mentioned to Hae-in in the library that EVIL spelled backwards is LIVE (adjective). She wasn't impressed. Maybe another way to express the idea would be more to her liking: living backwards is evil.

That's it for now. I'm feeling under the weather, so am not watching MAWANG very quickly. It's not an easy watch. At times I think it might be better to just watch it and say to hell with noticing details on the first pass. Maybe that's just the headcold talking. ;-)

I've already watched episodes 3 & 4 once, and need to rewatch.

Perhaps you can clear something up for me. I noticed that Seung-ha asked Hae-in about a book that was checked out. It was apparently by or about C. G. Jung, I think. (Although the photo on the cover looked more like Freud to me.) Maddeningly, the subtitles I watched were missing the title that they seemingly left a space for. I'm wondering if the book will be the source of another tarot card cover letter.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

Take your time and find the way that suits you best.

I had to watch a number of episodes 3 or 4 times on my first viewing so there were some gaps between posts.

I would say the drama remains quite detail rich all the way through...and as noted earlier, the visual detail really picks up around ep 6.

For me, the enjoyment of the latter episodes was based on the knowledge I had gained from the previous episodes...

Make sure you look after yourself. I understand there is a very nasty flu in the norther hemisphere this winter.

P.S. I am actually re-watching with you and keeping to your schedule to keep my comments on the episodes not my memory--currently on ep3. Fear not, I am all up for the re-watch...I am still getting new insights out of it even after just finishing.

More later

1
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom,

Thank you for your patience. I'm relieved to know you're not inconvenienced by my slow pace.

I'm also glad to know about your having to watch multiple times because of all the detail. The amount of data -- visual, auditory, or dramatic -- is huge. It's like wading through molasses at times.

I just played hooky to catch the latest episode of MONEY FLOWER, which hasn't aired for two weeks. I really notice the use of music in that show now. Har! It's interesting to watch the plot unfold after analyzing MAWANG. ;-)

Time to hit the hay. It's 8AM my time. Ciao!

0

Comment was deleted

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 03
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 1

1) I had no clue what the quotation from Goethe was supposed to mean. The subtitles for the version in episode 2 sounded like a geometry treatise. The episode 3 subtitles made more sense. Rather than beat my brains out trying to understand German translated into Korean and then into English, I decided to go back to the original source. I searched for the passage in German, and think I found it.

Drama***l translation of the second letter delivered to Oh-soo with the “Justice” tarot card in Ep. 02:

“All points form a whole. Each and every one of them move closely together.”

Another translation of the same text in Ep. 03 subtitles, same source:

“All elements constitute a whole. Each constituent is intimately related and alive.”
This feels like a better translation to me. To cross-check it, I scanned a German edition looking for mention of parts and the Whole. I think I located the passage in Scene 1, lines 95-96 of “Faust” Part 1. The only way to know for sure is to check the script. Perhaps it has been discussed on other Kdrama sites. Faust speaks:

“Wie alles sich zum Ganzen webt,
Eins in dem andern wirkt und lebt!”

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2229/pg2229-images.html
The Project Gutenberg EBook of Faust: Der Tragödie erster Teil, by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Posting Date: January 26, 2010 [EBook #2229] Release Date: June 2000 [This file last updated on August 4, 2010]

My literal, unpoetic, non-rhyming translation:

“As everything weaves together into the Whole,
One functions and lives in the other.”

English translation, in the original rhyming meter, by Bayard Taylor:

”How each the Whole its substance gives,
Each in the other works and lives!”

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14591/14591-8.txt
The Project Gutenberg EBook of Faust, by Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
Release Date: January 4, 2005 [EBook #14591]
Translated into English, in the original metres, by Bayard Taylor.

Here's another rendition into English, by Anna Swanwick:

“How all things live and work, and ever blending,
Weave one vast whole from Being’s ample range!”

http://www.bartleby.com/19/1/1.html
Goethe, J.W. von. Faust. Part I, translated by Anna Swanwick. Vol. XIX, Part 1. The Harvard Classics. New York: P.F. Collier & Son, 1909–14; Bartleby.com, 2001. http://www.bartleby.com/19/1/. [20180105].
On-line Edition: Published March 29, 2001 by Bartleby.com; © 2001 Copyright Bartleby.com, Inc.

- continued -

0
6
reply

Required fields are marked *

I think it will become more obvious as you keep watching, and I hate to comment for fear of spoilers. It's interesting to read your observations and questions as a first watch. So, biting my tongue, I'll say no more.

1
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

I'd go with your first translation.

1
reply

Required fields are marked *

No Kdrama sites discuss Faust. Trust me on this. You missed the God syndrome in your observations. It’s the key. Especially, to understand Faust. :D

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

@Marina

Have you seen this drama previously? I would love to hear your thoughts on its Faustian references.

@PakalanaPikake
I concur, I had not seen references to Faust on other sites when discussing this drama. After I watched, I did a search looking for:
...How others saw the interpretations of Faust,
...Hae-In as Lucifer,
...If people saw episode 18 as a vision. (Hence my earlier question to @PakalanaPikake)

I think this re-watch is the first to look at the drama though this lens.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

I’ve seen this drama a few years back. The music and cinematography reminds me of Soviet era Russian movies. You must understand the influence of Russian culture on Korean writers and producer to judge where the noir effect or drama’s philosophical innuendo and musings really come from. Usually, it’s closer to Dostoevsky mixed with a heavy doze of brothers Grimm, some Conan Doyle, and in this case, a little dash of Goethe.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom, @linda-palapala,

FYI: Marina posted a comment on MAWANG and Faust here:

http://www.dramabeans.com/2018/01/team-dramabeans-what-were-watching-85/comment-page-2/#comment-3164459

I'll respond when I'm up to it. ;-)

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

- continued -
MAWANG - EPISODE 03
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 2

2) What is the significance of the quotation? It must somehow be germane to the story. I think is serves as an indictment of all of the parties who are involved in the death of the schoolboy, whom we now know to be Seung-ha's elder brother. We've already seen that Lawyer Kwon, whom Oh-soo's father declared to be his son's savior, has died a sudden, violent death, allegedly at the hands of former convict Jo Dong-sub. It's easy to see how a defense lawyer might be culpable of a miscarriage of justice – the subject of the accompanying tarot card.

But what is Dong-sub's involvement in the schoolboy's murder? That should be revealed as the story unfolds. Perhaps he is not involved in the first murder at all. He believes he has been wronged by Lawyer Kwon.

It seems to me that an as-yet anonymous Prosecutor is handing down indictments against co-conspirators in the original murder 12 years earlier. Based on Lawyer Kwon's fate, s/he will also be acting as Judge and Jury, if not directly as Executioner. It looks likely that some of the conspirators will serve as agents of retribution against their fellows, and meet their own destruction as a result.

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

Thank you so much for the Faust work...its so fascinating and you are amazing.

I had interpreted the plot’s as Seung-Ha (MEPHISTOPHELES) is here to temp the souls who have already fallen. Here he looks to not only seek account from his primary focus of Oh-Soo, instead, he is planning to gather all who were complicit in the act and its aftermath.

The drama has already stepped out of the individual morality tale and now seeks to explore the systemic hubris within Sth. Korean justice. Those who have used their power and influence to bend the law are habitual in their exercise of power. Seung-Ha’s machinations ensnare a posse of these perpetrator’s other victims who become unwitting but willing accomplices.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

I feel you here. So many fascinating observations...There is so much in each episode its hard to strip out details as its almost impossible to tell what will become critical.

I will post more once I have fully digested your comments.

1
11
reply

Required fields are marked *

I thought everything was critical...

1
10
reply

Required fields are marked *

Aye, there's the rub. How many details are red herrings, and how many are important? And how much is important, but not until the last 12 minutes?!

0
9
reply

Required fields are marked *

I don't remember any red herrings.

1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

This drama runs hard to the end. There may or may not be surprises but this show does not need to rely on the usual mystery by fooling us with red-herrings (it doesn't have that time spare).

It is happy to be a Faustian story and the question is who will turn away from their darkness....or will they be forever damned.

From the outset the drama sets the stakes high (as you have already noted).

1
7
reply

Required fields are marked *

That's what I said.

0

@linda-palapala

I thought I would back you up....

I hadn't actually notice that fact it before your post...my mind did a quick double take.

This is a different structure of drama. Hence a lot of the typical Kdrama tropes and rules don't apply (they are not needed).

This drama actually does have a lot of throwbacks to 40s/50s Noir. Brutally honest about humanity...yet couches much of its darkest face just under the surface of social mores.

For this drama, its jump in and enjoy the ride....just don't be surprised if it asks some hard questions of yourself.

1

:D
I'm wondering if we should give @pakalanapikake even this much info. Do you remember if you thought there might be red herrings? My first watch was so long ago I don't recall.
And, I love, love, love 40s/50s noir!

0

@linda-palapala

Perhaps you are correct.

It was just that for me, the process of documenting the drama (in lots of detail) is what made me re-set my radar. To be honest, its probably the main factor in my appreciation for it now.

The post was my attempt at encouraging @pakalanapikake to not worry about the length of posts or how much detail she is reading.

On DB we are so used to stripping thoughts down for posts that make pithy public consumption, that we censor ourselves.

In dramas like this were really splashing around in all this detail is the joy of it...and probable the way to get the most out of the drama (the production have really crammed this one full of detail).

Once you know its a different structure it just prepares your brain for the ride...it is no less enjoyable.

1

In dramas like this were really splashing around in all this detail is the joy of it...
Well said!

0

@linda-palapala

OH NO!...the old were/where spelling mistake.

1

Re spelling: I didn't even notice that bit! I was trying to say you were correct in your comment.:)

0

@pakalanapikake: My narcissus is blooming.

1
12
reply

Required fields are marked *

Oh, how sweet is that! Just in time for Little Christmas / Three Kings Day! ;-)

Is it a paperwhite, or one of the yellow ones?

Thanks for that lovely image after our northeaster. It'll be cold through the weekend -- down around -6F tomorrow night. Which makes -1F later tonight seem positively tropical. We can look forward to getting back up to freezing on Monday afternoon. Oh, joy! ;-)

0
7
reply

Required fields are marked *

Paper white. It's 50s, 60s here and that feels cold to me. But I remember Minn. days walking in -40F to catch the bus to work.

1
6
reply

Required fields are marked *

My brother went to U of Wisconsin in Mad City. He was impressed to see that they had underground walkways between the buildings for just such weather. Brrrrr! I cannot imagine walking around outside in -40F blizzard conditions. I am a wimp.

For myself, I'm just going to dream of chowing down at the Eastern Paradise on King at Ke'e'aumoku, makai diamondhead corner where the TheBus stops. I didn't realize the Lee family who run it are ethnic Chinese from Seoul. Such lovely folks. As soon as you sit down, they bring a plate of kimchi / tsukemono. They have a website now. And I'm thrilled they're still in business. (They opened the restaurant in 1978, two years before I arrived.) If I could be transported without actually having to board an airplane, I'd love to get back to Honolulu, especially at this time of year.

0
5
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

You may be interested in Singapore's underground masterplanning...It not cold driving the underground...Here its limits of land and heat/humidity

https://coconuts.co/singapore/watch-singapores-distant-future-imagined-underground-city/

2

@Tom January 6, 2018 at 1:01 PM

Interesting! It reminds me a bit of the underground shopping areas in Japan I've read about -- not to mention the sci-fi flick A BOY AND HIS DOG.

When land is scarce and at a premium, the only directions left to build are up -- or down. In a seismically-active area, underground is the last place I'd want to be. It's as unappealing as being in a high-rise, with the added prospect of flooding.

Personally, I'd never want to live more than 2-3 stories above ground level. For two months I sublet an apartment in Honolulu on the 11th or 12th floor. Hawaiian Electric had a blackout. Rather than go home, I crashed overnight in my office at the university, stretched out on a couple of chairs. I've never forgotten that lesson. ;-)

0

@pakalanapikake: A Boy and His Dog? You date yourself.
I lived on the 7th floor of Makaha Towers, which was already a high elevation. More than once I accidentally left a washcloth in the tub when I let out the water and gravity sucked it right down to the first floor.

1

@Linda Palapala
January 6, 2018 at 9:24 PM

Yes, I do date myself with A BOY AND HIS DOG. I just looked up the movie, and was surprised to learn that Don Johnson was the male lead. Knock me over with a feather. I guess there were no post-apocalyptic white sports coats in Topeka. ;-)

As for losing your washcloths down the drain, yikes!

0

Since I knew you dated yourself, didn't that date me too? I believe that was Don Johnson's first role.

0

That so nice.

You norther hemisphere folks...so upside down. :D
https://www.flourish.org/upsidedownmapimages/hobodyer-large.jpg

1
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

Are you implying Australia is the center of the universe? The underground Singapore is so science fiction-y.

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

The weird element about Singapore is that it looks science fiction-y to the rest of us, but Singapore is actually doing this seriously.

Their land expansion is now limited by other countries' maritime boundaries. As such, land is a limiting factor on their growth and the government has actually developed an underground masterplan.

Moreover, the undergrounding process is actually becoming a major part of the design professions’ discussions.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

Not only totally tubular, it's totally Antipodean! ;-)

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

Read the latest DB "What We Are Watching" and you'll see how good Just Between Lovers is.

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

As I have been re-watching the drama again along with @PakalanaPikake, I have noticed that early on the music appears to be particularly fine grained and thoughtful in the production...your music comments are highlighting a number of really interesting moments in the drama.

I was wondering if on my first viewing I had missed a richness of the visuals that became evident to me after about episode 5 or 6.

Even though there are visual moments that I did not appreciate as I do now. However, on the re-watch I still think the visuals get so much stronger in the story telling later in the drama.

I would be curious to know who was the sound editor and what other projects they have worked on.

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

I haven't been able to find any info about any of the production, other than what's on Wikipedia and yesasia, which used to sell the CD and says music director Park Hak Ki.
@PakalanaPikake says she good at research, maybe she can come up with something. I've been stuck on the last 15 minutes of the first episode because of real life, which isn't nearly as much fun as fantasy life courtesy of kdramas.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

Good luck with that real stuff...I hope its not the kind that brings troubled sleeps.

Just think as soon as your day is done. You can do one of the truly great things about being an adult...having dessert for dinner.... :D

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

Yesasia is where I would have suggested looking. Hmm. I found a bunch of music videos of his on YouTube. He has a lovely voice. That's his daughter singing with him; you can see a live clip of them, but I'm including this one because it's got the lyrics:

[kpop] Park hak ki - vitamin (eng sub)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qocycmcCdew

Very different from the music in MAWANG.

I also found an entry for him with a little biographical info:

http://mwave.interest.me/en/kstar/1519/park-hak-ki/news

That's all that's turned up. ;-)

1
reply

Required fields are marked *

Finally watched the last few minutes of ep 1. Did you notice when Young Chul opens his desk drawer to get another pen you can see the box of tarot cards? It was so brief, I'd missed that nugget before.
Also, when they're at the tarot shop and Seung ho walks in, his "devil's music" begins.

0
7
reply

Required fields are marked *

I did spot the tarot cards, but it's taken me a while to figure out what was going on.

For a while now I'd been getting the feeling that there was a STRANGERS ON A TRAIN scenario going on.

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

Funny you should mention Strangers On A Train. I just watched The Accidental Detective with Kwon Sang woo, a murder mystery a la Strangers On A Train.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

MUSIC = CAPTAIN SUBTEXT
Thanks for the tip on the music when Seung-Ha walks in....Its great....the dialogue in the majority is as if they are normal, but the music is playing it straight Faust. To my eye, the visuals don't fully catch up to this level for a couple more episodes.

TAROT CARDS - ep01
I know. I missed that the first time round too.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

QUESTION
What hands-on evil deeds has Seung-Ha actually done himself in these early episodes?

...Stollen tarot cards - appears to be Young-Chul
...Watching Lawyer Kwon - Dong-sub
...Reporting the murder - Young-Chul
...Bunny Rabbit to Sora - Young-Chul
...Deliver envelopes - Uncertain...appears to be Young-Chul

If this is the case, Seung-Ha really is working at a Mephistopheles level of puppet mastery.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

Actually can also add:

...Cutting and making warning letters - Young-Chul

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

Did Seung ha ever do anything he'd actually go to jail for? Er, if that isn't a spoilery question.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

So even the briefest of scenes can give you clues.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

Ep 2: Re daffodils, narcissus? What were they? I thought it was rather humorous that 1st, the flowers were uprooted, the pot broken and one stem was bent or broken. 2) Oh soo left her flowers in a new white pot, but they were wilted. What was he thinking? (Ha)
Hae in on the balcony, bathing in the sunlight, with Aroma of Light playing. Very nice.
I still think there's something special going on with Seung ha's partner
lawyer. Suk Jin was not happy to see him in the courtroom.

0
4
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

Looking at that scene of Hae-In on the balcony bathed in light, do you think this is a parallel to Seung_Ha's scenes where he stand at the edge of his room looking out the blinds?

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

I don't know. I didn't know what to make of it. I'm not sure what scene you're speaking of though, because the scene that struck me was Seung ha meditating in front of his blinds, seemingly also bathed in sunlight. I don't remember the sequence of events.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

No, it was as if he were drinking in the sunlight.

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

I didn't mean "drinking" as in alcohol! But as in absorbing the sunlight. But why? Does he absorb less as time goes on? I wasn't sure what this scene was trying to tell us.

0

@Tom @pakalanapikake: Ah, don't know where Tom is and he isn't a member, but I wanted him to know I have a sinking feeling I know what the intense yellow is in Just Lovers. It appears whenever there's death, doom. The first time it was surrounding them in all the building walls, concrete walls, etc. Then they discovered someone who had just died. It totally enveloped him and the granny at the playground. Later we find out granny has a brain tumor. It only goes to the side of the female lead as if she's involved or near someone who is doomed or will die. It surrounded him when he broke up with her. I'm hoping this isn't telling us he will die in the end. His body is pretty messed up from being the last survivor of the mall collapse (7 days) and he's always in physical pain. Though it's supposed to be a drama about healing, I hope it isn't like Remember because once I knew he was going to die I couldn't watch the rest. I wonder if he will start to heal and the yellow gradually disappears. But right now, I'm fearful. This show, you feel like you're living their lives and you're in the drama.

0
23
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

OK...that is so cool...this has totally piqued my interest and I will check it out.

P.S. I drop by this thread most days....

0
4
reply

Required fields are marked *

I'm having a hard time getting on this thread using my bookmark, so I have to go round about.
Just Lovers is a simple story, really. It wouldn't have the same symbolism as Devil, but it's a very intimate portrait of the characters and their pain.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

Hit send too soon! I would love to know what you make of the yellow, but it isn't consistently in every scene so it might have a slightly different meaning than doom or death.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

Now that I'm watching the latest episode (9), I'm thinking yellow might mean the opposite meaning. Maybe it's just Gang Woo's color...I'm going crazy trying to figure it out.
The other thing I'd like your opinion on is this: I think the present day story is mellow and slow paced in order to contrast the flashbacks of the mall collapse and the people trapped inside. But you might have other opinions.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@Tom and anyone looking for Just Between Lovers you'll be very welcome to join us at: http://www.dramabeans.com/2017/11/bound-by-tragedy-healing-through-love-in-jtbcs-just-between-lovers/ Hope to see you there!!

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala, @Tom,

My eye is running (and I can't catch up), so I'm holding off on watching MAWANG (and episode 4 of HWAYUGI) for the time being. The headcold is resolving, or maybe it's just that the weather is warming up and is supposed to reach or exceed freezing on Tuesday. Whoopee! Barometric pressure changes were adding to the sinus blahs and headaches earlier.

Linda, your comment on the color yellow shook loose the memory of having read The King in Yellow, which might give some supernatural clues about the color. I put a link on my fan wall, and a few notes.

http://www.dramabeans.com/members/pakalanapikake/activity/355994/

Yellow conjures up jaundice, yellow fever, and old bruises. In the first two cases, that has to do with liver impairment (liver is Wood Phase [green] in Five Phases theory).

Like Tom, I'm tempted to watch JUST BETWEEN LOVERS after reading last weekend's installment of What We're Watching on DB. I like the title William Schwartz used in his HanCinema review: THE SPACE BETWEEN LOVERS, which speaks volumes to me.

1
17
reply

Required fields are marked *

@pakalanapikake @linda-palapala

Ouch...sorry to hear about your eyes.

"THE SPACE BETWEEN LOVERS"....That title speaks of such much more than "JUST BETWEEN LOVERS"

1
13
reply

Required fields are marked *

Thing is, for me it isn't just about "The Lovers", but tells how that tragedy affected the survivors. We always think of those who perish, but what suffering happens to those who survive?

1
8
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala

1st ep of "THE SPACE BETWEEN LOVERS” (sorry I have to call it that now after the first episode).

I suspect you are correct about the yellow. The footage appears colour corrected to saturate the yellows (and in some scenes the orange)

My first take on the yellow is that it is of memory...about the lost. (I think death has a different colour in the drama.)

The space between lovers is usually filled with love and tension...However, when they are wrenched from you, that space is consumed by torment and their memory which turns from a loneliness to a debilitating apparition.

I’ll move comments on "THE SPACE BETWEEN LOVERS” over to that drama’s recap threads.

2

They're not recapping Space Between Lovers. There's some thread they're using but I can't find it. @pakalanapikake: do you know where it is?

1

Tom:"that space is consumed by torment and their memory which turns from a loneliness to a debilitating apparition." You are literally correct.

0

Tom: Your one comment about the space between lovers has "opened my eyes" to the full meaning of the title. It makes so much more sense now. Thank you.

0

@linda-palapala @Tom @pakalanapikake Hello! We are using the Nov. 20 post about Just Between Lovers as a sounding board/squee/general discussion. Sadly, it is not being re-capped at Dramabeans but we have found a way to share the love! Hope to see you there!

1

@pakalanapikake @linda-palapala

Linda

I wanted to thank you so much for your constant comments on this drama...there is something that pulls you in over the first few episodes.

Again this is a drama that has a strange dead spot at the very opening but quickly finds its feet.

Have you seen the movie "Her Love Boils Bath Water"?

1

@beantown

Thanks for the heads up on where to discuss "THE SPACE BETWEEN LOVERS”

1

@beantown January 9, 2018 at 4:39 AM

Many thanks, @beantown, for the invite and the location of the discussion of JUST BETWEEN LOVERS. I've become intrigued with the show's alternate title, THE SPACE BETWEEN LOVERS. I'm hoping to get over there, but am not feeling up to snuff to take on another drama at this time. But I'm listening in to @linda-palapala's comments. Mahalo! ;-)

1

Tom: (Wish you would become a member, it would be so much easier (selfishly for me).
I haven't seen that movie, nor even heard of it.
"Dead Spot" - exactly where and exactly how? I'm almost afraid to ask.

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala,

You ain't the only one who's rolling out the red carpet for our Antipodean chingu. I'm not sure how to properly incentivize our enticing offer. Do we have to start sending him tarot cards or something?! Potted narcissus?

As long as he signs up with the email address he's been using, his account will be linked to all comments submitted using that address. It might make it easier for him (and us) to track each other's comments. Later, if he wants to use a different email going forward, he can change it in the account info. Whatevers. Just thinking out loud. ;-)

1

@ Tom, @linda-palapala,

The title alone of THE SPACE BETWEEN LOVERS really grabbed my ear and shook loose a few things. It made me revisit BLACK and track down the scene with Detective Moo-gang and the father of schoolboy Seung-chul, who was killed in the Mujin Time Mart collapse. At about 1:01:30 of episode 7, Seung-chul's father says:

"We call those who have lost their spouses to death 'widow' or 'widower.' And kids who have lost their parents are called 'orphans.' But do you know what parents who have lost their children are called? There's no word. It's so cruel that there's no word for it."

I was surprised when BLACK and MAD DOG premiered that both dealt with collapsing buildings. And now here's a third show. It reminds me too much of September 11. I grew up on the other side of a hill that had a clear view of the horizon far to the east. You could see the Twin Towers peeping above the First Watchung Mountain ridge. You don't have to be directly involved in horrible events to be affected by them. But the more closely you are involved with them personally, the worse it is.

1
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

0

Thanks for the link. My allergy doctor calls it "vasomotor rhinitis." Simply going from the Arroyo Seco up the mountain to JPL caused all my sinus woes.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala, JPL?! Are you a rocket scientist? Seriously. Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Cool!

Our skull bones are full of sinuses, and air pressure changes play havoc with them. I got a lot of relief from cranio-sacral therapy, which un-jams the sutures. Mis-alignment of the temporo-mandibular joint and the articulated bones of the skull can raise all kinds of Cain, and can impinge on the pulse of the cerebrospinal fluid. It can also bollox up the meninges with twists and wrinkles. I had orthodontia when I was young and braces jammed my noggin up but good.

I cannot express how wonderful it is to have a skilled healer initiate a stillpoint. It is incredibly relaxing. It's like being in a neutral buoyancy chamber / flotation tank, which also gave my aching back and joints a lot of relief. (That's partly due to the magnesium in the Epsom salts.)

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

Wow. (But I'll have to look up some of these terms....) I'm very curious about your 2nd paragraph.
Hardly a rocket scientist, just a flunky aide. Worked in ICAT (Inorganic Chemical Analysis Team) for the Viking Mission, and in Orbiter Imaging. I used to run the spindle cards...remember those?

1

@pakalanapikake @Tom (ha): Got the Mawang CD from Korea today. The only place I have to listen is the CD player in my car so I drove around listening. I absolutely love the cd, even though I've only heard the 1st three so far. My friend knows several Koreans in the area so I'm going to ask if one of them can translate the 3rd song that has words. The CD cover and inside pamphlet is beautiful too.

1
10
reply

Required fields are marked *

Wow...it's here already....how time flies.

I just imagined you driving around the neighbourhood late at night listening to the OST...mingling with a sea of parents aimlessly driving just trying to get their babies to sleep...

Let us know how the later tunes are.

1
9
reply

Required fields are marked *

Ah, you keep your word - you really did check back! Yes, driving around at night listening to "Don't Love Me" and "Aroma of Light" was surreal. Good thing there wasn't a lot of traffic. Babies must have already been asleep.
I'm watching my first Chinese drama, Nirvana in Fire 2. It took some getting used to but I really like it. Knowing about Kishotenketsu helped a lot, not that this drama is necessarily using that structure, but just knowing about different structures of story telling helped broaden my mind.

1
8
reply

Required fields are marked *

Ah, I was right! The Devil's song was track no 6. You know, the one with the high violins. OMG I absolutely love this cd.

1
7
reply

Required fields are marked *

Interesting: Track 13 is "The Walz". aka "Lying People"

1

@linda-palapala,

Thanks for the updated.

Glad to hear you were on point with the Devli's song...I am not surprised as you seemed to have a good feeling for this drama.

I would be interested to know how to identify the others...this drama is so crafted, it would be great to see how the OST detail is woven into the drama.

2

Tom: I was hoping you could figure out why our Waltz is titled "Lying People". I haven't gotten to track 14 yet, which is labeled "The River of Hatred". I guess the only way to match the other tracks with the drama is to find a specific scene in the drama and label the score with the track. This might take awhile. I just binge watched all 24 episodes of Nirvana in Fire 2 this weekend. So kind of got sidetracked.

1

@linda-palapala,

RE: "Lying People"

I can think of several possibilities why a track would be titled this.

Lying to themselves
Lying by omission
The coverup lie.

The drama is fundamentally based on all of these lies Yes, the death of Tae-Sung was a tragedy. However, the act that spawned the Faustian tale is Oh-Soo's family and their cabal's distortion of the events.

Until we know which scenes the track relates to, its hard to tie down the actual reason.

0

@linda-palapala
January 14, 2018 at 8:18 PM

Re: "River of Hatred" -- aka River Styx, named for the Greek goddess of the river that circles Hades 7 times. (Why does this remind me of classical 7-circuit labyrinths?!) Her name means "hated, abhorrent, gloomy" (from stygos).

If you've gotten to hear track 14, does it match that description?

0

Re:
PakalanaPikake
January 22, 2018 at 1:30 AM
menu

I forgot to include the source for the translation of Styx:

http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/PotamosStyx.html

0

@PakalanaPikake

I am so curious of @linda-palapala musical take on the rest of the tracks.

0

@linda-palapala,

2 dramas you may be interested in from a music point of view

1
…………………………………………………………………
MI WO TSUKUSHI RYORICHO
(the 2017 version with Haru Kuroki…there are several remakes of this story)

The sound track is like a Henry Mancini movie score from the 50’s (piano, strings and clarinet). This music really picks up and infuses the whole drama after about ep2.

The drama’s real treat is each episode’s 2 min epilogue. To a fantastic lounge music track, Haru Kuroki takes you through the featured dish from the story. Her voice over is magical and I wish she would voice over every meal I ate….

P.S. Haru Kuroki is my favorite Japanese actors…hands down she is superb

2
…………………………………………………
SPRING HAS COME (Haru ga Kita).
This is a current Japanese drama with Korean male lead (Kai from EXO). Only the 1st episode has been aired so far.

Music reminds me of a Joe Hisaishi score for a Ghibli film. It was such a surprise.

………………………………………………..
These are both in that intimate scale of drama that Japan does so well.

1
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala, @Tom,

Sorry to have fallen off the face of the earth. Here's hoping that you're both in good spirits and off to an auspicious new year.

I'm feeling much better after recuperating from whichever bug was getting me down. Mentally I was pretty tired and just needed to lighten up. Oddly enough, SOLOMON'S PERJURY caught my eye in the “In Defense Of” essays this month, and it got the juices flowing again. It was well done. I finished watching LOVE RAIN, another essay subject, yesterday afternoon. It was surprisingly therapeutic. Great music! And MONEY FLOWER continues to be a great watch.

Last night I checked KBS World TV on YouTube, and was tickled to see that I could watch MAWANG there. I quickly noticed that the subtitles (credited to Domino TV / translator Wha Young Jung) felt better than the ones I'd been reading before, so will rewatch the first 4 episodes to refresh my memory after my hiatus.

One detail I was pleased to learn from the KBS subtitles: A total of 3 sets of tarot cards had been stolen from GaLanTHus. I had figured that at least two sets were needed because there were two recipients of each card. The sender (or instigator) would need a set as well. My suspicion was confirmed.

Ep. 01 – during the preview for ep. 02, starting at about 1:06:00:

KBS's subtitle for letter #2:

“All the elements constitute one whole. Each of them lives and moves together, being closely connected.”

My amended loose translation from the German:

“As everything weaves together into the whole,
One functions [or works or exerts an effect] and lives in the other.”

Goethe's original German from Scene 1, lines 95-96 of “Faust” Part 1:

“Wie alles sich zum Ganzen webt,
Eins in dem andern wirkt und lebt!”

Yesterday I came across information on MAWANG's filming locations. It also contains plot and character information I found interesting as it specifically refers to revenge. I've been thinking about vengeance in relation to “Faust.” I suspect that revenge is the Korean “secret sauce” that is added to the themes of pride going before a fall, redemption, and facing the consequences of one's sins. It's just an inkling. Here's the link:

http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/CU/CU_EN_8_5_1_24.jsp

*off to watch episode 2*

0
11
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

OooooH...back to ep 01...

I understand your need for a break when you were under the weather. This drama is so full its hard to take on if your not in the right mood.

..." revenge is the
Korean “secret sauce”...

You always have a way with words...that is so beautifully put. For me this is the element that takes the story from an individual morality tale of hubris and transforms it into a collective social exploration.

1
6
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom, @linda-palapala,

I just finished watching Ep. 5, and the story is now cooking with gas. It seems I had to make it over the "hump" of the first four episodes, and suddenly it got easier. Maybe it was the info dump at the beginning. I've been getting a better handle on the characters as well.

I am so much happier with the KBS World TV subtitles. It makes a big difference to me. The quality feels so much better. Except for episode 2, the same translator has done all the subtitles. I was glad to see they correctly translated the Agnus Dei in Ep. 3. They also gave the name of the book Seung-ha asked for in that episode: The Development of Personality -- turns out it's by Carl Jung. I didn't know how I knew the author when the title had been butchered in the other subtitles. Well, in ep. 4, the front of the dust jacket is shown, and it has his facsimile signature. Bingo! Both the new translators have done a good job as far as I can tell, and seem to be doing their homework.

I even got confirmation about how many tarot cards were actually stolen: three sets. I figured it had to be at least two sets (one for Oh-soo and one to be shared by whomever the other lucky recipients would be, plus one for the puppet master). It didn't make sense to waste time trying to extract specific cards from the decks when it would be easier to just filch whole boxes.

Anyway, progress is being made. And now I'm enjoying unraveling the mysteries. ;-)

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

It took me a few episodes just to reset my viewing mind back to a 2007 drama. I suspect it took me a while to get my bearings as the drama is happy to not try and over-resolve details too early.

For me, the drama really picked up its confidence with their production quality around ep06. (I don't know if that was just how long it took me to see what they are doing but I do suspect its was also that technically the drama keeps improving as it progresses)

1
4
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom,

One of the things that drives my eyes nuts is pseudo-BLAIR WITCH palsied handheld camera work. It's about as enticing as watching strobe lights is to an epileptic. It makes me want to shut my eyes until it's over.

And then there's the vertiginous zooming in for closeups in MOON LOVERS: SCARRED HEART RYEO. Blech! Major turn-off. All this stuff makes me cranky indeed.

During Hae-in's visions and nightmares, both these effects come into play. Oh, joy. It's not the end of the world, but between that and the dark/underilluminated scenes, I sometimes cannot tell what I'm looking at. I can't help but wonder how many clues I'm missing because I simply cannot see them. Arg! Maybe this is one reason why I'm not too keen on noir. ;-)

I think I'll take the plunge and watch one more episode (#6) before hitting the hay. MAWANG is getting addictive. ;-)

1
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

The hand-held shaky zoom is so clunky (particularly bad in the early episodes). I don't consider this camera work Noir...instead its about a particular stylistic fashion of the early 2000's associated more with horror.

Noir always wanted the viewer to focus on particular detail (not hide it). Hence, its blocking/lighting was to ramp up the intensity of the scene's key elements...(and cover the fact that those parts of the sets blocked our were often not even built to save budget).

Let me know when you have watched ep 6. So many things to talk about in that episode.

1

@PakalanaPikake

Comment above

0

@ Tom, @linda-palapala,

I watched ep. 07 & 08 yesterday. But I still have some observations from my earlier viewing of ep. 03 to post. Plus a bunch more that came to me early this morning. ;-)

Re: your comments on camera work and noir:

I'd thought that the BLAIR WITCH style of shaky camera work was supposed to show it was a DIY amateur horror flick, which is maybe why it bothered me so much in MAWANG. Now I can see that it maybe had another purpose. I'm glad to learn that Hae-in gets clearer reception of her visions as the show progresses. It would make sense, now that I think of it. As a child she discovered her gift because of picking up the basketball that rolled into the road, and it was involuntary. In the intervening 12 years, she's learned how to deal with her user interface (to the degree of wearing gloves at work while shelving books). She also became seriously ill since that discovery. I think it's highly symbolic that her gloves are white while the maker(s) and sender(s) of the letters and tarot cards wear black leather (just like the Psy Corps telepaths in BABYLON 5).

The question that occurs to me is that only Detective Cha and one other cop knew that Hae-in had psychometric abilities. It became more widely known within the department, apparently. And somehow the puppet master learned about it as well.

Thanks for explaining how noir techniques are used to focus attention. I recognized that Oh-soo's confession to Hae-in in the library was framed in a virtual confessional. Very nicely done.

I haven't watched many noir productions aside from THE THIRD MAN and ALFRED HITCHCOCK PRESENTS, which was aired on TV when I was a kid. I don't like getting startled and scared out of my skin, so low-key slow-burn suspense is more tolerable. FRANKENSTEIN scarred me for life. And the flying monkeys in WIZARD OF OZ were nearly as bad. LOL.

It also occurs to me that noir might work best in black and white owing to the binary nature of the photographic process itself. Referring back to Goethe's treatise on color, black and white photography is the interplay of light and darkness mediated by silver nitrate. Color photography uses dyes (that are less stable than silver over time) to approximate darkness. I think that's why it seems to be more muddy and less detailed to me.

And then there are the alchemical and homeopathic aspects of photography and the use of various metal salts. Silver is traditionally associated with the moon -- and the unconscious. Toss in tarot and dreams and MAWANG just keeps getting better and better.

0

REPOST...I don't know if you saw this post earlier on our discussions of silence.
.......................................

@PakalanaPikake

You may want to check out the Japanese film
"The Whispering Star"

Its a surreal tale. Think 2001 done by a suburban film collective.

A humanoid travels the universe (in a spaceship that is an old Japanese shack) to deliver packages.

Not only is the film quiet and dominated by ambient noise. She delivers to The Whispering Star where noises over 30 decibels may kill the residents.

You need to be in the mood...but its a beautiful journey and the scenes that look to be shot in the abandoned towns surrounding Fukushima are haunting.

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom,

Thanks for your suggestion. ;-)

I watched the first hour on New Year's Eve, and had to call it quits. I may have better luck the second time around.

THE WHISPERING STAR is a bit too surreal for me without subtitles. It's very low-key. Sleep-inducing, in fact. Maybe it would be better if I could understand Japanese. But you said I might need to be in the mood, and I think you're right. I may simply have been too tired to give it a fair shake.

THE WHISPERING STAR reminded me of the anime GALAXY RAILWAY, but with a Japanese bungalow / old-fashioned Japanese analog of FEMA temporary housing instead of a passenger car (or a caboose). The allusion to post-Fukushima temporary housing is readily apparent.

Variety magazine's review likened it to a live action FUTURAMA, but without the hijinks. I found it to be peculiarly meditative.

The same director made LOVE REVOLUTION, which I watched and enjoyed in August, 2016. I definitely dig Fujiki Naohito's brand of suave.

Earlier I had totally enjoyed watching HOTARU NO HIKARI, especially when Fujiki was spouting Goethe rhapsodizing about the joy of travel being in the journey, rather than the destination — whereas for Hotaru, the joy is in returning home to the verandah. It was a blast hearing him speak Italian, too. ;-)

I had great fun watching both series of HNH and the movie. What romps! I can now spot a himono onna at 50 yards. ;-)

But I have to say that the “character” that absolutely stole the show for me was the bright yellow t-shirt hanging on the clothesline. I just about fainted when I spotted the logo for “Hot Dog Johnny’s, Route 46, Buttzville, NJ.” It’s in my neck of the woods, I’ve eaten there, and passed it countless times on my way to the Delaware Water Gap and Pennsylvania. On a scorching summer day, a wiener and a frosted mug of birch beer is just the ticket while watching the Pequest River flow down to the mighty Delaware. This is the wildest PPL I’ve ever seen. LOL!

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

OMG....THE WHISPERING STAR without subtitles. You really know how to push the boundaries My mind is spinning just trying to comprehend what that would be like.

It is an interesting example of stories that could only be told by a particular country... The Japanese social control of emotions and their ability to fill stillness would be hard to replicate for others. I don't think even the Danish Dogme 95 would pull this story off. (I know its not in the same league...but "The Beauty Inside" is a film that would really only work for Korea)

It is sad, but this film is such a clear reminder that you can see the aftermath of the Fukushima tragedy permeating Japanese visual arts.

..."for Hotaru, the joy is
in returning home
to the verandah."...

For a while, I have noticed how strange it is that there is such a parallel between this version of Japan and my home...

Veranda...its a space of true joy. Better than a deck. better than a patio. There is just something about suspending yourself in the liminal edge of the world...trapped for a moment in the undefined between the absolutes of inside and outside.

1
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom,

The only reason why I watched THE WHISPERING STAR without subtitles was because that was all I could find at the time.

I submitted a request to Netflix. Maybe it will turn up. ;-)

1

@PakalanaPikake

I hadn't noticed the white gloves for books, black gloves for fate. Nice catch...

It makes sense. The book (people's completed stories) have already been written...here she is a curator. The cards are a different matter as destinies are still in play.

…”Even though God has
predetermined fate…but
people can change the
destiny”…

Just a heads up in case you have misinterpreted my comment. The visions still have the zooming camera, only the drama gets better at the effect and it becomes slightly less off-putting.

Before I burst into writing about details in ep 06, should I hang off until you have posted thoughts you mentioned on ep3-5?

1
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom,

Not to worry about the zooming visions. If they shake a little less, that's great news. ;-)

If you could hang loose a bit longer with episode 6, I'd be much obliged. Thanks!

My mind was working overtime in the wee hours this morning, and I wrote up a bunch of notes. I've been sorting out where I left off around January 7. I just posted my final observations from episode 02. Onward to episode 03. ;-)

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

No worries... I am happy re-watching at your pace.

Once this drama gets in your brain, there can be a lot to work through.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom January 6, 2018 at 6:03 AM

http://www.dramabeans.com/2007/04/devil-mawang-wave-of-japanese-support/comment-page-2/#comment-3162989

In belated reply to your response to my episode 02 comments in thread #55:

9) Re: Wangtta

I hadn't come across that term before, so did a little research and posted a couple of items on my fan wall in early January.

One of the phenomena I've been mystified by in Kdramas is the amount of violence in schools. But after reading that article by a foreign English teacher in Korea, it seems that the naming, blaming, and shaming of scapegoats truly is a national sport. And it goes far beyond shunning -- it's active pursuit and persecution. Just for being different. Egads. Now I see why the alcoholism and suicide rates are so high. I don't mean this in a judgemental way at all. It's just such a different way of being that I cannot grok it. It's like a non-stop fraternity hazing, and everyone is fair game. Forever. Like living in a shark feeding frenzy.

Violence in American schools has reached levels that would never have been tolerated when I was doing time there. Teachers get beaten up and worse. And then there are the sex scandals with students. It could be that this stuff has always gone on, but now we're just more aware of it. Somewhere along the line, a healthy sense of shame (aka “conscience”) was lost. What the hell happened to my country?!

I assumed that Suk-jin was part of the gang because of his relationship with Oh-soo's elder brother. The degree of his reaction to the news of Soon-ki's release caught my eye. Why is he the only one who's worried? It's not clear how long Soon-ki has been in jail. Maybe these questions will be answered in later episodes.

Several other items from Episode 02 were not on my original list of observations:

On 01/07/18 I watched the DramaGa**xy copy of ep. 03, and found the name of the book Seung-ha asked Hae-in about that was not on the shelf. The Human Character and Its Transition did not turn up any book titles when I searched, and I didn't see any by Jung that seems to fit when I took a cursory look. (More on this in a later post.)

After watching Ep. 02 (KBS World TV channel on YouTube) preview for Ep. 03 @1:04:32:

Yet another variation of the quote from Goethe's “Faust.” Subtitles translated by Ho Eunkyoung:

A whole stream of events consists as one whole.
Each closely connected lives and moves together.

The Agnus Dei (prayer following the Consecration during the Catholic Mass) was translated correctly into English.

Both Hae-in and Seung-ha went outdoors for sunlight and fresh air. She went out onto the balcony of the library, and he sat on a park bench in the golden afternoon light. I hadn't noticed during previous viewings that they were both basking like turtles. ;-)

0
5
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

I suspect most adults in the west would be horrified by some of the realities children face now...even in my country.

From my understanding, the difference between the frightening escalation of Violence in the US and Wangtta is that the US is uncoordinated gang level. Where as, the Sth. Korean version is cultural and systemic (the entire school may be involved and if the student leaves, the students in their new school are likely to continue the treatment). Considering Sth. Korean students’ extended school hours (some approaching 16hrs/day) the effects on students who are cast as Wangtta must be suffocating.

Understanding the constructs and framework that underpins & supports Wangtta often opens up a chilling perspective to many Kdramas. The role of fiefdoms and the brutality of punishment for those who slight your position is not limited to Sageuks. Instead, these social structures still permeate Kdrama as it appears to maintain relevance across the spectrum.

You may find Dr Peter Hayes comments interesting as it includes this cultural intensity…(Refer to 5:25)
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2017/09/lnl_20170904_2220.mp3

I think this is why Mawang’s exploration/critique of the power manipulations within Sth. Korean culture and the social compact is so compelling. It is realy tilting at a core of the social structure…not for shock or base sentimentality. Instead the drama sets out a case for what is lost and how overt distortions also create fissures within the core social fabric. Dramas of this time before the big Hallyu explosion really didn’t pull their punches…I suspect this is why they stick in the memory for so long.

1
4
reply

Required fields are marked *

@ Tom,

Reading about Wangtta was really quite depressing. It sounds like hell on earth. I don't know how anyone survives such situations. If MAWANG and suicide statistics are anything to go by, many don't.

I see your point about random gang violence versus socially-sanctioned systemic persecution of non-conformists. It's one thing to have general racial strife, and aggression between criminal gang members. It's something else again to target one's own kind because of social class or financial status. Call it the shadow side of misapplied Confucianism. It was clearly pointed out in REBEL, and a drama special entitled REBELLIOUS / REBELLION with Kang Haneul.

Back in college, I took a sociology course called "Deviant Behavior." It dealt with the ways in which norms are established and enforced among various kinds of groups in society. Anyone who doesn't live up to membership criteria is treated as deviant, and subject to punishment or expulsion. Having outcasts to persecute helps define membership in the in-group, and serves as a pressure-relief valve. It also sends a message to all hands to toe the line. I can see how Wangtta functions as a mechanism for enforcing social cohesion. As a loner myself, I know my goose would have been flambéed.

You're onto something regarding MAWANG's exploration/critique of power -- and belonging. To me, one of the locations in the show speaks volumes in its indictment of the status quo. Early this morning, I got a twinge about that painting at the back of the white church in episode 18, and did some digging. I think I hit paydirt. It turns out that three French priests of the Paris Foreign Missions Society were martyred in Saenamteo, Seoul in 1839. I suspect they are the central subjects in the painting, but have not been able to determine the name of the parish church used as the filming location. Jacques Honore Chastan, Pierre Philibert Maubant, and Laurent Marie Joseph Imbert, second bishop of the Joseon Archdiocese, were canonized along with Joseon's first ordained Catholic priest, Kim Tae-gon Andreas, Chong Ha-sang Paulus and the rest of the 101 Companion Martyrs of Korea in 1984. About another 250 individuals have been beatified or have been in process since then.

http://newsaints.faithweb.com/martyrs/Korea1.htm

Given the religious symbolism in MAWANG, and the scenes that unfold at the church, I think it's apropos to look at the social and cultural history and its implications in the present day.

- continued -

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

PakalanaPikake January 25, 2018 at 3:17 PM

- continued - Part 2 of 3 -

The following is from a homily by Columban missionary Donal O’Keefe, who serves in Korea, on the feast day of the Korean martyrs Kim Daegon (Andrew), Chong Hasang (Paul) and their companions.

... The numbers of martyrs are astonishing in a country where Catholicism only entered in the year 1784 and within 100 years 10,000 believers were martyred.
At the end of the 18th century Korea was a country ruled by the Yi Dynasty. It was a class society based on Confucianism with its hierarchical relationships. There was a small minority of privileged scholars and nobility while the majority were commoners paying taxes, providing labour and manning the military. Below them there was a whole class of slaves. The words of today's [09/20/2012] Gospel "I no longer call you slaves - I call you friends" had a huge impact on these people. Even though it was scholars who first introduced the Gospel to Korea it was the ordinary people who flocked to the new religion. The new believers called themselves "Chonju kyo udul" literally "friends of the teaching of God of Heaven". That term friends was the only term in the Confucian understanding of relationships which implied equality. They experienced this when they gathered as one - nobility and peasant - to pray, to celebrate the Eucharist".
However their gathering in that one space, with no distinction on the basis of class was perceived to be undermining 'hierarchical Confuciansim', the ideology which held the State together. The new learning was seen to be subversive of the establishment and this gave rise to a systematic suppression and persecution. The suffering, the torture the believers endured is well known through the official documents which detail trials and the sentences. There were four major persecutions - the last one 1866. At which time there were only 20,000 Catholics in Korea. 10,000 had died.

https://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=21106

- continued -

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

PakalanaPikake January 25, 2018 at 3:17 PM

- continued - Part 3 of 4 -

It's noteworthy to me that yangban and seonbi shared scriptures in hanja with commoners. They really got the message. There were already 4,000 Koreans waiting for the first missionary, Chinese priest Zhou Wenmo (Ju Mun-mo) Jacobus, to arrive; he was executed in 1801. Talk about a grassroots movement, and it was aided and abetted by scholars, and nobles of both sexes. It is reminiscent of Jesus breaking bread with harlots, tax-collectors, and others of low social standing. Many of the laity were women, just as in Christ's time. No wonder the powers came down so hard on them.

"St. Andrew Kim Dae-geon, the first Korean Catholic priest, was an idealist who dreamed of equality and freedom of religion in the hierarchical society of Joseon," said Rector Paul Lee Yong-ho of the Shrine [of Solmoe in Dangjin, Chungcheongnam-do, birthplace of St. Andrew Kim Dae-geon]. "Speaking of equality for all before the God means an abolition of the class system and it was a great threat to the status quo of Joseon times."

Birthplace of Korean Catholicism, Solmoe
http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Society/view?articleId=119546

The saint's idealism led him to walk all the way to Macao to study Catholic theology after his baptism at 16; it took him 6 months to get there. After his ordination in Shanghai, he returned to his homeland 9 years later in 1845. He was arrested and hanged 13 months after his ordination. Eleven other members of his clan, including his father, uncle, and great-grandfather, were martyrs. His family had a deeply-rooted dedication to the faith.

I see the theme of equality of all people emerging as a common theme between the martyrs and MAWANG. The idealism that Seung-ha displays in his pro bono legal representation is not what it appears. The same goes for his dedication to his education, because he uses it for his long-term campaign of vengeance. His personal vendetta is a hollow facsimile of the ideal of equality for all that was espoused by the Joseon martyrs.

- continued -

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

PakalanaPikake January 25, 2018 at 3:17 PM

- continued - Part 4 of 4

In another article on Joseon Catholic martyrs, this quote leaped out at me:

"As we built the martyrs' shrines, we were able to meet the saints who remained calm in the face of an executioner's sword," said Kwon Cheol-ho Daniel, chief priest at the Danggogae Martyrs' Shrine. "They saw heaven in the edge of the sword. This is why they were able to keep their peace of mind in the face of the persecutions."

Seoul pilgrimage trail shares spirit of Catholic martyrs
http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Society/view?articleId=121022

I see a connection between the double-edged sword of the “Justice” tarot card and possible redemption for Oh-soo and Seung-ha. That may be why the painting in the back of the church was shown. Koreans, particularly Catholics, would know the reference to the persecutions. It's even conceivable that one of the martyrs could have said something about “seeing heaven in the edge of the sword.”

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 03
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 3 of 4

3) Jo Dong-sub gets a message to go to Lawyer Kwon's office, but when he arrives, the lawyer is shocked to see him, and picks up the switchblade from his desk and opens it. He holds it awkwardly, and doesn't seem to know how to handle it. Dong-sub tells him to go ahead and stab him. He's been avoiding seeing him for a year. The two grapple. Dong-sub steps backwards onto a big pile of papers on the floor, loses his balance and falls backwards onto the floor, and Lawyer Kwon falls on top of him – and the point of the blade.

4) Shocked, Jo Dong-sub gets up and runs out of the office, stepping on Lawyer Kwon's glasses as he does so. This parallels the feet of someone trampling the peppermint candies on the ground at the wrecking yard after the stabbing of Jung Tae-hoon.

5) After Dong-sub leaves, Lawyer Kwon tries to reach for his cellphone which fell on the floor, but it's out of reach. He pulls the knife out, and proceeds to gush blood. He should have left it in place.

6) In interrogation at the precinct, Dong-sub says he only wanted an apology from Lawyer Kwon. “I never wanted to kill him.”

I expect that Seung-ha will plead “accidental death in self-defense” on his client's behalf.

Ep. 03: KBS subtitles by Domino TV / translated by Wha Young Jung

7) Title of book Seung-ha asks Hae-in for at the library: The Development of Personality. It can refer to either:

The Development of Personality (Collected Works of C. G. Jung Vol.17), with chapter 7 consisting of the title paper, or

The Development of the Personality: Seminars in Psychological Astrology ; V. 1 by Liz Greene and Howard Sasportas (Samuel Weiser, Inc.: York Beach, Maine, USA; February 1, 1987). This book incorporates C. G. Jung's work on archetypes with a psychological approach to astrology.

Either way, I suspect that it is the works' focus on the influence of parents (whether human or archetypal) that interests Seung-ha. I have an inkling that it may have something to do with the “sins of the fathers” coming home to roost.

8) Seung-ha states to Hae-in that the repotted daffodil would do better if it gets sunlight and fresh air. When she is interested in his knowledge of them, he says his mother liked daffodils, and she flashes on the image of his mother that she picked up psychometrically. Hae-in likes them, too. He looks at her an uncomfortably long time after that, and she gets fidgety.

Part 3 of 4
- continued -

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 03
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 4 of 4

9) Hae-in knows that Tae-hoon's mother liked peppermint candy. But we don't yet know if Hae-in knows that his mother is Seung-ha's mother as well.

10) The closing statement on the letters sent to Jo Dong-sub while he was in jail:

“God predetermines a man's destiny, but man has the power to change his destiny.”

For the heck of it I searched for that quote in case it is from one of Seung-ha's books. No dice. But maybe it will crop up later.

11) I noticed a color cue: Yellowish walls and bright yellow shelves in the bookstore where Na Suk-jin meets Kim Young-chul, who stammers, cringes, and beats a hasty retreat from his high school classmate. Yellow seems to be symbolizing the color of fear. It's associated with cowardice, as in “yellow-bellied.”

12) After Hae-in inadvertently gets a reading from Oh-soo when he touches her back as she gets in the car, she has a nightmare that night of Tae-hoon being stabbed. But she doesn't see who did it, yet. (However, she saw his face earlier when taking a reading of one of the tarot cards during the first session at GaLanTHus.)

13) Seung-ha turns on the stereo and plays a jazz version of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” as he towel dries his hair in his living room in the bright light. (Recall from Goethe's color treatise that color arises from the interplay of light and darkness, and that there are two spectra, depending on whether light is seen against a backdrop of darkness, or darkness is seen against a backdrop of light.)

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

72 PakalanaPikake January 24, 2018 at 2:29 PM

Addendum to #13:

Part 1 of 2

Pay attention to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," as it is a music cue. This instance is a female vocal rendition with jazz piano.

The image of a rainbow is a reminder of God's promise to Noah after the waters of the flood receded, starting at Genesis 8:20-21:

20Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though(a) every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Footnote: a 21 Or humans, for

http://biblehub.com/niv/genesis/8.htm

This is a lot more than I bargained for. Here I was thinking about rainbows, but stumbled across a truly bleak assessment of humanity that caused the Almighty to send the flood in the first place.

"... every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood."

So maybe wangtta isn't merely the result of Confucian social forces? It arises from inherent human evil? That renders Seung-ha's revenge on par with Oh-soo's bullying.

- continued -

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

72 PakalanaPikake January 24, 2018 at 2:29 PM

Addendum to #13:

Part 2 of 2

In Genesis 9:5-7, 11-16, God makes a covenant with Noah, but first there's fine print:

5And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6“Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.

7As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”

... 11I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

12And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

http://biblehub.com/niv/genesis/9.htm

It appears to me that Seung-ha could be using Genesis 9:5-6 as the justification for his revenge. But he seems to have missed the proviso that God himself will demand an accounting of everyone who kills another human. He says nothing about deputizing vigilantes. In setting himself up as avenger, Seung-ha has already doomed himself, and pays for it in advance long before he even springs his first trap.

As for the promise of the rainbow, beneath his cool exterior, Seung-ha is so bereft that he cannot recognize the blessings that are his on this side of the spectral arc if only he could accept them. The blinders of revenge prevent him from glimpsing the ephemeral beauty of the souls around him, and recognizing the painful childhood deprivation he shares in common with Oh-soo. His double-mindedness blocks him from truly being of service in court or in church.

Rather than focusing on as yet unfulfilled wishes, Seung-ha would have been a much happier camper if he ever got to hear about this rainbow. Sing it, Mahalia!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP7213eJBnc

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

There's one more reminder from the rainbow: It serves as a string around God's finger to refrain from destroying His creatures and the earth. If it's enough to restrain the Almighty Himself, shouldn't it rein in Seung-ha, too? By failing to heed the injunction against killing, isn't he putting himself above God? Hubris never ends well.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 1

Ep. 04: KBS subtitles by Domino TV / translated by Wha Young Jung.

1) Letter that accompanies the tarot card “Justice.”

“Hear the trumpet sounds of judgement.
See the new world after the darkness has cleared away.
Believe in the dignity of truth.
Be prepared for the truth to... pierce your heart.”

2) Hae-in touches the letter that had been recently delivered to suspect Jo Dong-sub that his landlady gave the police while they were searching his apartment. Among the visions are what appear to be details of statues.

She also sees the muzzle of a pistol, which worries her enough to call Detective Kang Oh-soo the next day. She asks if there have been any shootings, but there are none that he knows of. He asks if she has identified the statue, but she doesn't know. She senses it has to do with judgment and justice. Oh-soo has gone from being the biggest skeptic to Hae-in's biggest fan. LOL! Now it's Detective Lee Min-jae who's questioning the wisdom of discussing evidence with a civilian who isn't a mudang. It's hilarious how he calls Detective “Scully” out for not believing.

3) The book Seung-ha asked Hae-in for, The Development of Personality, is returned by the borrower. It is indeed the volume by C. G. Jung. His facsimile signature is on the front of the dust jacket, along with a photo of him in his later years. She puts it aside for Seung-ha, and looks over to the daffodil in the window, which has made a miraculous recovery and is now in full bloom. [Actually, it is a completely different plant that is much shorter than the original. LOL!]

4) At the library, Hae-in happens across close-up photos of the sculptures she saw in her nightmare and discovers they are individual figures from Rodin's sculpture “The Gates of Hell.” The artist worked on it for more than 30 years; it was to be the main entrance to a museum that was never built. Just then, Seung-ha arrives after closing time to pick up the book by Jung. He asks her why she named her tarot cards “GaLanTHus.” The lights suddenly go out, and Seung-ha finds the light switch more quickly than she does. He says he is used to darkness. Leaving the library afterwards, she tells him the story of the angel who came to Adam and Eve after they were driven out of the Garden of Eden. Eve was shivering in the cold winter. The angel swirled the snowflakes and turned them into Galanthus (snowdrop) flowers with the promise that winter would be followed by the warmth of spring. She wants her tarot cards to bring the same kind of consolation as the angel did. “Bad things don't last long if you try hard.” Seung-ha reflects as he drives home.

0
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

Comment was deleted

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 1 – Addenda

1 of 2

Addendum to 1) : Letter that accompanies tarot card “Justice.”

“Hear the trumpet sounds of judgement.
See the new world after the darkness has cleared away.
Believe in the dignity of truth.
Be prepared for the truth to... pierce your heart.”

I still haven't found a source for this text.

Instead of being composed of syllables and words cut from printed pages, this letter is word processed. Does that mean there are two (or more) people creating the letters? Are they collaborators?

The four lines of the letter suggest ki-sho-ten-ketsu, which is based on an ancient Chinese four-line poetry form. The first two lines refer to two of the five senses, while the third speaks of intangibles such as belief, dignity, and truth. The fourth line puts a twist on dignified truth that pierces the reader's heart – truth that penetrates to the heart of the matter, but does not set one's friends free? Images that come to mind include Gabriel's trumpet waking the dead, the Last Judgement, and the world after Noah's Flood's waters have receded.

New Item

1A) Following the ill-fated drinking party after Soon-ki introduces his lawyer to his “friends,” Oh-soo goes to GaLanTHus. He leans against a wall outside while thinking over Soon-ki's crack that Oh-soo had become a detective while he himself had gone to jail. The detective broods, and is espied by Hae-in. He brightens up as soon as he sees her. She asks if something bad happened, and he replies that he must have succeeded in pulling off his fanboy impression of Tony Leung Chiuwai channeling loneliness. “His lonely-looking style looks real cool.” As he turns to head indoors, she says, “I think it's cooler to look happy and strong. It's like a man who's overcome his dark sadness. That's why I think it's harder to look happy and strong. Which makes you cooler. And you're better off with a bright and strong appearance.” Her radiant smile and warm concern set his wheels turning, and he boyishly smiles happily as he follows her indoors.

1B) Cut to Seung-ha standing alone in his picture window looking out through slatted vertical blinds bathed in blue light.

1C) Back at the precinct, Detective Lee takes issue with Oh-soo's consulting her on the case. She doesn't really believe in psychometry. He retorts, “You don't believe what you see. You see what you believe in.”

- continued -

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 1 – Addenda

- continued - 2 of 2

Addendum to 4) :

Right after Hae-in recognizes “The Gates of Hell” from her vision, she's startled to look up and see Seung-ha step up to her desk. Speak of the devil!

He says, “I thought I was too late. You're still here.” She smiles and hands him the book he asked for. When she asks if it's the one he wanted, he replies instead, “Were you waiting for me?” She demurs, and says she had things to do, but now must get going.

As they walk towards the main entrance, he says it must be nice to work in a library because of the regular quitting time. She says she doesn't mind working later, but wishes she were a full-time employee. She's only a contract worker and can be fired at any time. He asks if she's going home, but she's going to see her friend at the tarot cafe. He verifies that she painted the pictures on the cards herself, and asks how she came to name them GaLanTHus. Just as she's about to tell him, the overhead lights go out in the hallway earlier than she was expecting. She fumbles in vain for a light switch.

As he comes up to her in the dark, she cowers, back against the wall. He reaches past her to turn on the lights. Rawr. “You found it faster than me.” “I'm used to the dark.” He asks her to tell him about the legend of Galanthus. Later, driving home, an ever-so-faint smile plays on his lips.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 2

5) As Hae-in arrives home, she sees Oh-soo waiting by her front gate. She startles him as she walks up behind him. He stammers, and finally tells her they did the site inspection and reenactment at Lawyer Kwon's office, and the case is being turned over to the prosecutors. She asks why he came, and he says he wanted to let her know, and to thank her for her help. She tells him she found out the name of the sculpture in her nightmare: “The Gates of Hell.” He asks what it's about, and when she says Rodin is the one who knows, he thinks she's making fun of him, which she immediately tries to dispel. She tells him about its thematic connection with the “Divine Comedy” and Dante and Virgil's journey through Hell and several souls they encountered there. Back at the precinct, Oh-soo sits in the dark, alone, thinking to himself.

6) At home, Hae-in researches the sculpture online, and learns that “The Thinker” is the main figure. He is a seated man awaiting judgement with his eyes closed. But as soon as he opens his eyes, he becomes the man who judges. I have a feeling that the eye motif will be important later in the story.

Oh-soo is likewise logged in at work researching the sculpture.

7) In a shopping mall, Seung-ha stands in front of a life-size(?) photo mural of “The Gates of Hell.”

What a strange piece of art to install in a shopping mall. Unless it's saying that materialism and conspicuous consumption are manifestations of Hell? And why do I get the feeling that Seung-ha had a hand in its installation?!

8) Ex-convict Kim Soon-ki drops by the hotel to see Kang Soo-hee, who is away on business. Secretary Na Suk-jin tries to shoo him out. He's trying to get himself a cushy job. Suk-jin quickly places his boss's portrait with his wife flat on the desk so Soon-ki cannot see her face, which he saw when he barged into his friend's apartment the day he was released from jail and had nowhere else to go. He seats himself at Soo-hee's desk, and refuses to leave. Then he complains to Suk-jin that he and the other two always gang up on him and treat him as the wangtta just like back in high school. Just then, behind him, Soo-hee enters. Later Soon-ki departs with an envelope full of cash, which pleases him.

9) An online article in Issue & Issue written by freelance Reporter Sung Joon Pyo who called on Seung-ha has been raising a ruckus. The reporter apparently received a delivery himself. And he hasn't been seen for a few days. Suk-jin asks his boss if he's seen the article. The publication is new, and launched its webzine prior to its print edition. Soo-hee discusses it with his father, who cavalierly dismisses Reporter Sung the same way he belittles his detective son.

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

Comment was deleted

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

Re: 7) photomural of "The Gates of Hell"

I was surprised to learn that casts of the Gates as well as "The Burghers of Calais" have been housed at Samsung's art gallery in Seoul since 1999. (See links on my fan wall.)

That explains a lot. If the photomural is not in a shopping mall, it would be even more apropos for "The Gates of Hell" to be located in a subway station.

I can very easily imagine the Gates of Hell being below Times Square in New York, Port Authority Bus Terminal, or Grand Central Station. Or across the river in Hoboken, New Jersey at the entrance to the PATH (Port Authority Trans-Hudson) trains.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

Here's the filming location of the photomural of "The Gates of Hell":

Noksapyeong Station
Noksapyeong station is the background for episode 4, where Seung-ha stands in front of the Gates of Hell. The scene of the connecting corridor leading to the 2nd floor of the basement is quite impressive.
The center of the station is a circular shape, which usually gets a lot of sunlight coming in from the ground level. Mid-way down the elevator that connects the 1st and 2nd basement floors, the wall motif was inspired by a traditional Korean wrapping cloth. The expansive space makes Noksapyeong station the perfect venue for exhibitions, fairs, and weddings.

http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/CU/CU_EN_8_5_1_24.jsp

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 2 - Addenda

Addendum 5)

When Hae-in meets Detective Kang at her front gate, he looks tickled to bits that she was going to call him. But now she can tell him about learning the name of “The Gates of Hell” in person. He's so cute!

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 3

10) Cut to Oh-soo eating lunch with Yoon Dae-shik and discussing Soo-hee. Dae-shik is still coughing. Turns out he has asthma, which is what killed his father. Once he recoups his outstanding loans, he's going to quit the usury business and open a bar.

11) Rookie Detective Shin learns that the woman who owned the house formerly on the site of the apartment building that was a fake return address for the letters received in jail by Jo Dong-sub is the former wife of Reporter Sung. She allegedly emigrated to Australia three years previously. The reporter's name backwards is Pyo Junseong. Oh-soo and his boss and colleagues think the reporter sent the letters to Jo Dong-sub, as well as the packages to Lawyer Kwon and Oh-soo, who needs to check something out regarding his family. Four years earlier, the reporter worked for New World and caused a scandal for Kang senior, who sued him for libel through Lawyer Kwon. Elder brother says Dad won the case, and that he'd heard the reporter emigrated. Oh-soo tells Chief Detective Ban he needs a search warrant for the reporter's home. Ban refuses for lack of evidence to support the motive of revenge for losing his job and his wife as a result of the lawsuit.

12) Cut to Seung-ha sitting on the park bench photosynthesizing while children play nearby.

13) Dae-shik tries to phone the ahjumma who owes him money, but her phone is no longer in service. He sends his two thugs to look for her. After they leave, he turns to a package on his desk. At that moment the woman is quitting her restaurant job. Her little girl, Sora, is outside on the sidewalk with the teddy bear doll the strange man gave her. When mom looks again, she's gone. We'd seen a man's legs wearing dark pants and black shoes – like the guy was wearing who gave her the doll. Mom runs around frantically in the middle of the intersection calling Sora's name.

14) Cut to Hae-in going downstairs at the library. She runs outdoors to meet Lawyer Cha (the former detective, who was told to drop the case that she had helped him with). He tells her he heard from Chief Ban that her tarot card was found at the scene of the death. She tells him it wasn't a fluke, and that the police received one as well. He drops the subject, and asks how her mother is doing. “Mom is an angel and a nag.” He still remembered what her mom had said back then: that she was afraid that Hae-in would live in a world without fairy tales because of what happened with the case back then. He says that's why he wasn't happy when he'd heard that Chief Detective Ban had asked for her help again. She says she's still a kid who lives in a fairy tale. She mentions she doesn't see the chief very often, but Detective Kang is very nice – and he does a double take when she mentions his full name. He looks troubled, and brushes off his reaction.

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 4

15) Cut to Hae-in's living room, with Mom. She tells Mom Lawyer Cha dropped by, and she asks how he is. Mom says he's the only one who believed her. She replies that she lives in a fairy tale because Mom always believes her. Fairy tales have already been mentioned in episode 1, when the jailer thanked Seung-ha for the book he gave his daughter.

16) Lawyer Cha drives up in a taxi to a police station and hears a small child crying. It's Sora and her bear. He goes over to her. His boss comes up behind him and they exchange greetings. He says he has to meet someone, while his boss says he needed to see Mr. Jo before he's sent to the prosecutors. Sora continues to cry for her Mommy. Seung-ha hunkers down and asks if she's lost and what her name is. She says “Jung Sora.” Cha tries to phone mom, whose number is out of date. Seung-ha asks if she knows where she lives, and she tells him. He sets out with her, and tells Cha that he'll report her as lost if he cannot find her mother.

17) Cut to Oh-soo and Rookie Shin in the car, which the boss suddenly stops. The rookie attempts to persuade him to just stake out the reporter instead of breaking down his door. Suddenly his phone rings. It's Dae-shik, who is opening the package. He tells Oh-soo that he's getting together with Soon-ki later, and that he should join them. Dae-shik removes a teddy bear wearing a dress that looks just like the doll the stuttering man (Young-chul) gave her. His cough resumes and gets worse as Oh-soo tells him to leave Soon-ki alone. Dae-shik says something about getting a weird picture card with an English word on it and a doll, and Oh-soo fairly hits the ceiling. He asks when it arrived, but his friend keeps blathering. Oh-soo asks if he's in his office and tells him to stay there, that he's on his way.

18) Cut to Seung-ha driving, and telling Sora the story of Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz, who was banished to a strange land by the Wicked Witch. But with the help of her friends and the Wizard of Oz, she's able to get back home to her mom. He says he's the Wizard of Oz, and he'll help her get home. He turns on the stereo and plays a female cover of IZ's Jawaiian version of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow.” (Original version posted on my fan wall.)

Seung-ha admits that he's the one pulling the levers behind the curtain.

19) Cut to the detectives driving like mad to Dae-shik's office. Cut back to the Oz-mobile, with Sora asleep, and Seung-ha stroking her hair. Then cut to Hae-in, who touches the “Justice” card sent to Oh-soo. She flashes on Sora, the white teddy bear doll, the cartoon stickers on the upper story window of the house at the return address of Mr. Jo's letters, a man's legs in dark trousers. “Why did he send the doll?” she wonders.

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 4 – Addenda

15A) Dae-shik works out on a treadmill and talks on the phone with ahjumma [Reporter Sung's ex-wife], who accuses him of taking Sora. She threatens to kill him if he harms Sora. He says he treats people the way they treat him.

Dae-shik states that what goes around, comes around, that people reap what they sow.

Walking back to his desk, he kicks the package that arrived earlier. He picks it up.

18) Found the drama's version of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow”!
http://www.dramabeans.com/members/pakalanapikake/activity/375643/

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 5 of 5

20) Cut to the mall with the “Gates of Hell” photomural. Kim Young-chul is standing in front of it, peering at it closely.

He's an editor. He might very well recognize the sculpture. I wonder whether other pawns in the game will be led to this image – and recognize its significance.

21) Oh-soo finds the office door wide open, and Dae-shik gasping for air on the floor. Rookie Shin just stands there until Oh-soo hollers at him to call for help. He's pretty useless, although he's a good guy. He doesn't know the address, but sees the box and picks it up to get the address while Oh-soo keeps yelling at Dae-shik to wake up. The tarot card flutters to the floor, and no one sees it yet.

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 04
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 5 – Addenda

20) Cut to “The Gates of Hell” photomural in the Noksapyeong subway station. Kim Young-chul is standing in front of it, peering at it closely.

He's an editor. He might very well recognize the sculpture. I wonder whether other pawns in the game will be led to this image -- and recognize its significance.

20A) Cut to Detective Lee Min-jae on the phone, but Oh-soo is not answering. Chief Detective Ban comes in and wants to know where the others are. She says she can't reach him, and that they went to stake out the reporter's home. Chief is unhappy because he expects Oh-soo's temper to cause trouble. Speak of the devil, the detectives pull up outside Dae-shik's office and run for it.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 05
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 1 of 1

Ep. 05: KBS World TV subtitles by Domino TV / translated by Wha Young Jung.

1) Rookie Shin seems to smell something bad when he gets to the open door of Dae-shik's office. (Did someone powder the teddy bear doll with anthrax spores?)

2) Sora's mother is staggering around the street, and stops to toss what looks like a pistol (toy cowboy six shooter) near a darkened building.

3) Lawyer Cha is at the precinct with Detective Lee, waiting for Chief Ban, when Rookie Shin finally phones in about the latest tarot card case. He overhears Lee asking the rookie if Oh-soo has busted Reporter Sung, which raises Cha's eyebrow. Then Chief Ban arrives. Apparently the EMTs got to Dae-shik and did CPR on him; he's in the ER with Oh-soo.

4) Cut to Seung-ha walking up a dark alley with Sora. Later they sit in the car. Mom is not home.

5) Dae-shik flatlines at 8:30PM and is pronounced, and Oh-soo doesn't even realize he was a goner. The guy is not qualified to be a cop. All he did was holler at him to wake up. He did absolutely nothing to check his airways for obstructions, call for help, or do chest compressions. Nepotism strikes again. He is totally clueless. The attending physician has to tell him that his friend was DOA (Dead On Arrival). He doesn't believe it.

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

MAWANG - EPISODE 06
Observations, Symbolism, Free Association, etc.
Part 1 of 1

Ep. 06: KBS World TV subtitles by Domino TV / translated by Wha Young Jung.

1) Hae-in receives a letter and “The Empress” tarot card in a blue envelope.

Oh-soo's red envelope contains pictures of him in high school in 1996-1997 and a letter.

“People who are trying to go to the city of pain will have to pass me.
People who are seeking for eternal pain will have to pass me.
Those who are going towards those who have lost their souls will have to pass me.”

Whose voice narrated that?!

The text is the first three lines of Dante's Inferno, Canto III: The Gate of Hell.

2) “The Empress” is Demeter, the force that nurtures all of nature. Her card has a daffodil on it; it is a flower of the underworld and stands for the voice of the dead. It stands for the truth that the dead try to reveal even after they die.

Hae-in: “I think whoever sent me this card wants me to speak for the dead.”

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@PakalanaPikake

Wow....I will post comments after watching 4+5 again.

0
3
reply

Required fields are marked *

@pakalanapikake @Tom: Wow, so this is what happens when I'm absent for a few days? Somehow I got logged out and didn't know I had messages. But I don't have anything to add...you've said so much more.
I dropped DB for awhile because the comments re Just Between Lovers were too annoying. I'm afraid to watch the last two episodes because I have a feeling he's going to die and his name will be the last on the memorial.
Instead, I'm watching Nirvana in Fire 2. I love it, but yesterday one of my Chinese parents was thrilled I was watching a Chinese drama but proceeded to tell me why Nirvana in Fire 2 wasn't nearly as good as the first Nirvana in Fire.

1
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

Aloha! I've been missing you, @linda-palapala.

I'm a much happier camper with the subtitles from KBS World TV. Perhaps the increasing sunlight as we draw near St. Brigid's Day (Groundhog Day, Candlemas) is helping, too. ;-)

0
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

I've been hibernating with the dreary weather myself. Today's a bit more sunny and so am I. I'll have to try KBS World TV. I already see daily episodes from them on FB but not one I want to watch right now.

1
reply

Required fields are marked *

Now that I'm watching MAWANG, I have a much better appreciation for LOOKOUT and its ending. Prosecutor Jang Do-han is definitely a spiritual descendant of Lawyer Oh Seung-ha. He's basically Oh Seung-ha v2.0, and his fate is very much in keeping with the pyrrhic nature of revenge. In neither case is there an actual Mephistopheles. Instead, they both decide within themselves to pursue revenge couched as justice for the victims of power-mongering predators, and focus their lives for many years on those goals. Instead of signing Mephisto's contract in blood, they sacrifice all their opportunities for happiness in life.

http://www.dramabeans.com/2018/01/in-defense-of-the-not-so-happy-ending/#comment-3180757

On a saguek note, the viciously vengeful Madam Park, wife of Nobleman Jo in REBEL: THIEF WHO STOLE THE PEOPLE, is a hybrid case of greed leading to all-consuming revenge. Her worship of Song Sabu's warped brand of Neoconfucianism leads to her son's destruction as well as her own. (Since when is the annihilation of one's own family a Confucian value?!) The main difference between Madam Park and her younger modern counterparts is that she is a member of the upper crust, like Congressman Kang. She benefits from her yangban husband's place in the social hierarchy, even as her own life is strictly limited by the very same conventions because she is female.

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala, @ Tom,

I was able to find some of the music, which I posted on my fan wall, along with one piece from the Japanese remake.

Thanks to some of your discussions, I've been noticing the music cues as I watch. The more I see and hear, the more I like this show. I've gotten as far as ep. 9, and have finished rewatching through ep. 7. There's so much detail to notice that it needs more than one pass.

Tom, if you want to post your comments on ep. 6, please go right ahead. ;-)

0
0
reply

Required fields are marked *

*** Unclean! Unclean! Beware of Spoilers ***

I celebrated Groundhog Day 2018 by marathoning episodes 8-20 of MAWANG in a leisurely 20 hours. Hot-diggity-damn, what a great drama! I was truly impressed by the artistry this drama exhibited. The cast and crew did a great job. The story got off to a fast start, while the show found its sea legs by around episode 6. The music is terrific.

Mahalo nui loa to @linda-palapala and Tom for enticing me out of my perceived comfort zone. In all honesty, MAWANG is now among my favorite Kdramas. Period.

Having seen episode 18 out of context while watching for symbolism, I now have a better understanding of how the show unfolds. The scene on the swing by the river parallels an earlier one in a different playground. Now that I know Hae-in's path had crossed Tae-sung's when they were still in school, it's easier for me to take those scenes at face value. Maybe Koreans really do like funky little parks with quirky installations of Doric columns and blank slates hanging on tree trunks that look like something out of DIY Day at some fancy art gallery. Maybe there's less symbolism than initially met my eye. I'll mull that over later -- but I still think that wire sculpture looks like a cormorant!

Roughly midway through the show I noticed a sudden wardrobe change. Seung-ha, who previously always dressed in a somber dark suit and white shirt like a (sexy) undertaker, switched to a light gray suit with black shirt and dark tie. Meanwhile, Detective Kang wore dark colors instead of his light/medium earth tones and faded denims. I also noticed a subtle change in their hair styles that got the hair out of Seung-ha's eyes and made him look less like a precocious high school kid (from certain angles), and yielded slightly longer locks in lieu of the detective's buzz cut. Interestingly, the lawyer's bangs stayed down instead of being swept up to signal a turn to the Dark Side. Hmmm. Oh, that's right, he was already on the Dark Side.

I didn't see the twist coming as Seung-ha left his office. An excellent resolution to this epic tale in which revenge and hatred were transmuted into forgiveness and peace of mind and heart for the two antagonists. Alas, the clairvoyant librarian was left holding the bag. I felt really bad for her and her mom. On the other hand, they had faith and hope to see them through the finale and its aftermath.

I'll have more to say later on this cautionary tale of revenge. ;-)

1
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

One of your favorites now? Yay! I've tried to get others to watch but thankfully you and Tom were the perfect people to watch. Wasn't that twist a perfect end to Seung ha. When I went back and re watched I realized the guy who stabbed him was in the courtroom more than once and the camera would linger on him for a second.
Kdramas must really like the funky little parks as they're in so many dramas. In JBL Junho is always surrounded by intense yellow light when he's talking with his "granma". I think you were right when you said somewhere above that the yellow could mean liver disease, because that's exactly what happened. And you don't know until the very end whether or not he lives.

1
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala,

I am so glad I watched MAWANG. It took me a while to get into it, but when I did, it pulled me in and didn't let go. That music video I saw was edited so that I couldn't see why Seung-ha was in such a condition when he seated himself in the shadow of the white car in the wrecking yard -- which was vaguely reminiscent of the Holy Spirit, or at the very least a dove of peace. Reminds me of the hymn "On Eagles Wings."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbRZRLN-m20

Thanks for mentioning the assailant. I couldn't place him, but now that you mention it, could he have been Lawyer Kwon's son, who was getting married? It would make sense to me that he'd be upset that his father's killer was let off on the grounds that it was an accident. It would also explain his attending other trials in which Seung-ha was involved. Might he have also been behind the break-in at Seung-ha's office? I don't recall the circumstances. Or did Congressman Kang sic his attack dogs on the lawyer? I thought he was careful to protect his image.

The fact that Tae-hoon and Tae-sung were both stabbed, one accidentally, the other intentionally, is really sad. There is a righteous symmetry to Oh-soo's demise. If Seung-ha were fated to accidentally kill someone, what better victim than the man who truly understands how such an accident can happen, and readily expresses forgiveness as well as remorse and apology?

The irony of all these "accidents" is just too much. Lawyer Kwon gets Oh-soo off the hook by calling it an accident (which it really was, but no one believes him). Kwon himself dies because of a genuine accident. Seung-ha's attempt to shoot himself ends in yet another accidental death -- and now he knows how Oh-soo has felt ever since Tae-hoon died. Damn, what a scene. You could see the scales falling from his eyes.

I was truly at peace at the end of the show, just like the antagonists. There was absolutely nothing ambiguous about it. I'm convinced that that's what Writer-nim wanted the audience to feel. The whole issue of forgiveness, of oneself as well as others, was depicted so well in this drama. Until I watched the real ending, I couldn't tell whether they'd forgiven themselves and each other. But afterwards I was left with the certainty that neither of them would have made it out of the junkyard alive. There was too much water under the bridge. Just as revenge was eating Seung-ha alive, remorse had pretty much destroyed Oh-soo. And yet, in a moment of grace, redemption descended upon two lost souls. When they closed their eyes, Oh-soo ceased judging himself, and Seung-ha quit judging Oh-soo.

Seeing them sitting next to each other, they looked like they could have been friends if life had been just a little different. They were more alike than either of them realized until it was too late. Sadly, Hae-in could see their similarities but could do nothing about it. She was really left holding the bag.

0
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala, @Tom,

I'm still feeling warm and fuzzy after the finale of MAWANG. It was so apropos that I cannot help but feel hopeful and satisfied with the resolution. This completely blows my mind. Although I'd seen a music video that I thought had spoiled it for me, it had not tipped me off to an earlier event which made all the difference. I have to note that I feel really bad for Hae-in. Here's hoping that Mom and their priest help her deal with it.

On a different note, I saw the finale of MONEY FLOWER, and it, too, was a surprisingly good ending. I watched it raw, and was a bit confused until I read the subtitles. Once I saw them (and read the discussion over at Soompi), I understood what was happening. It was an intense ride, with a great cast and a well-crafted plot. An excellent production.

MONEY FLOWER's OST is beautiful. In the wee hours I finished posting the 5 vocal tracks and 27 instrumental ones I was able to find. They're on my fan wall, along with a couple of videos of glass harmonica and glass harp (since it sounded to me as if one or both of those instruments were used in the MONEY FLOWER soundtrack).

I'm tempted to rewatch both shows from the beginning, but have a couple of new shows calling my name.

Laters!

1
27
reply

Required fields are marked *

I still haven't gotten over my emotional involvement with Just Between Lovers and so haven't been able to get into any other new drama. I just read an interview with Junho where he says he's having trouble letting go of JBL too. It really affected him personally. He acted his little heart out in that drama.

2
26
reply

Required fields are marked *

It's strange to say this on a Mawang thread, but same here about letting go of JBL. The way that show grabbed my heart was really no joke.

I'm too much of a chicken and supposed to be too busy ('supposed' because I still spare time for JBL!) to start on Mawang, otherwise I'd have watched and joined you here. :)

3
4
reply

Required fields are marked *

The only solution is to watch JBL again...

3
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

Which I am stealing time to do from time to time. Listening to the OSTs now. The instrumentals are so plaintive.

1

@growingbeautifully,

It's good to give yourself enough time and space before embarking on MAWANG. It took me a while to get over BECAUSE THIS LIFE IS OUR FIRST and MAD DOG before I could clear the inner decks for this drama. I was in the same boat after watching THE KING AND THE CLOWN. That one took me apart at the seams. The good news is that it's a movie and not a 20-episode drama.

1
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

Loved King and the Clown. We've all been emotionally involved with certain dramas but I think the intensity of JBL was what lasted longer.
I cheated and couldn't watch the last episode until I ff to the ending.

0

I haven't started JUST BETWEEN LOVERS, but that's because my bandwidth has been tied up with MAWANG, MONEY FLOWER, DOUBTFUL VICTORY, and HWAYUGI.

I'll give JBL a shot in a spell. I'm intrigued to read what Junho has to say in that interview, and would appreciate a pointer to it. Mahalo!

The fact that a drama so completely grabs actors and viewers alike makes it that much more appealing to me. It reminds me a bit of COFFEE PRINCE, and the difficulty Yoon Eun-hye had saying goodbye to uri Eun-chan. In the special episode it was really poignant seeing her struggling to let go of the character she'd inhabited so intensely for months.

2
20
reply

Required fields are marked *

1
9
reply

Required fields are marked *

@Linda Palapala

Oooh Thanks!! I'll repost this at the other thread. :)

1

@linda-palapala,

Mahalo nui loa for the link. A very interesting interview. He sounds like a thoughtful person, which makes me want to see JBL.

3

@PakalanaPikake: The whole cast of JBL was great.

3

@linda-palapala
February 6, 2018 at 5:00 PM

I didn't realize that Junho is the guy who plays the gluttonous former prosecutor in CHIEF KIM. I had him confused with Dong Ha, who plays the reformed chaebol heir. I thought he did a great job in that role. He and Namgung Min were such great sparring partners.

Was pleased to see Lee Ki-woo, Tae In-ho, Ahn Nae-sang, Yun Yoo-sun (villainess in DOUBTFUL VICTORY -- and Sister Gemma in LOVE LETTER), Nam Gi-ae (Park Do-kyung's horrid mom in OH HAE-YOUNG AGAIN) and Na Moon-hee in the cast. Tons of talent to look forward to.

3

@pakalanapikake: He and Namgoon min actually won "Best Couple" award at some award ceremony. I think it might have been the Han Cinema Awards (I'll have to check). I haven't watched Chief Kim yet (it's on my watchlist) but after seeing they won Best Couple, I've got to watch soon! I miss Junho anyway.

3

@pakalanapikake
Na Moon hee is great, as usual. She's my favorite older actress and I loved getting to see her yet again.

1

@growingbeautifully @pakalanapikake: If you love cats as much as I do, check out Junho's instagram posts. He has 3 gorgeous unusual beauties.
Another plus for Junho...and I think he's also left handed.

2

@linda-palapala February 7, 2018 at 1:10 PM

So Yoon Kyun-sang has company as a Kitty Oppa? Junho's pride are beautiful indeed. Is that a tabby, or maybe a Bengal?

Belated reply to your CHIEF KIM post: If anyone deserved a best couple award, it was Namgung Min and Junho. They were terrific. Deprive yourself no longer. Just watch CHIEF KIM. I especially enjoyed Kim Won-hae's performance and Kim Eung-soo's cameo.

2

I caught glimpses of Jun Ho's cats in the "I live alone" reality-variety or whatever show. I have not watched it seriously yet though.

He's a man after the cat and animal lovers' hearts.

3
2
9
reply

Required fields are marked *

Thanks for this @Linda Palapala

It gives some points for discussion. As usual William Schwartz expresses himself in such a way as to call more into question. I don't think that many people are visiting the JBL thread, but I'll post snippets of Mr Schwartz and see if anyone is reading. :)

3

Thanks for the link to that HanCinema final review of JUST BETWEEN LOVERS, Linda!

I generally enjoy character studies, particularly when transformation or redemption is involved. Working through bad karma, overcoming a rough start in life, and rising above humble origins all float my boat. Turning lemons into lemonade is another fave. Trauma and survivor's guilt provide fruitful conditions for examining characters' mettle. The upshot: yet more incentive to watch JBL.

I'll be interested to hear the music, too. ;-)

2

@Linda Palapala and @pakalanapikake

Just added my thoughts about William Schwartz's review. :)

http://www.dramabeans.com/2017/11/bound-by-tragedy-healing-through-love-in-jtbcs-just-between-lovers/comment-page-11/#comment-3188839 ... and following.

1

@pakalanapikake: It was actually the KBS Awards that he and Nam min won Best Couple, ha!
BTW, I was just re watching ep 2 and the music gave me goosebumps (chicken skin in Hi).
@growingbeautifully: where can I watch "I Live Alone"? And I posted one review by Schwartz but some commenters made some comments about him I didn't appreciate so I didn't post any more reviews by him.

2

"I live alone" - I only watch the snippets of it on YouTube. I have not tried to search for it in full. There are no subs though.

2

@growingbeautifully Thanks for the link to your comments - I don't go there any more because there are too many to read! But I liked your thoughts. You mentioned a couple of things I all too briefly thought about but let what he said slide by w/o thinking about it too much. And I think you're correct in what you said.

3

I don't go there any more because there are too many to read! But I liked your thoughts.

Thanks for reading @Linda Palapala and for analysing!

I'll drop by to let you know if anything interesting crops up over at the other side. :)

3

Comment was deleted

0

@growingbeautifully
February 7, 2018 at 5:48 PM

Thanks for the link to your comments on the HanCinema final review by William Schwartz. That's some nice grist for the mill. I can see why the drama grabbed viewers despite its heavy subject matter. ;-)

2

@linda-palapala, @growingbeautifully, @pakalanapikake

Excuse me if I'm interrupting your discussion. I came across one of the comments here on Beanies tab about Junho (I couldn't help myself because I'm a fan of his 😅😅).

Regarding the "I Live Alone" episode with him as the guest, you can watch it on OnDemandKorea or Viu. It's Ep.202 and aired on 4/28/2017.

Linda Palapala, actually he has 2 cats living with him and another 2 cats with his parents. The yellow Maine Coon, Lambo, died last April (before the "I Live Alone" filming). He then wrote a song, titled "Fine" for dead Lambo. 😭 The Bengal is Johnny and the black Burmese is Myeongwol aka Wolie (Bright Moon). 2 others at his parents' are Ggomaengie (Little Kid), the Blue Russian, and Gaeul (Autumn), the black with yellow-spots Maine Coon. All four are featured on his IG.

Btw, I love reading posts from all of you and @Tom. Thank you, all. I wish I'm as eloquent, knowledgeable, and critical as all of you so I could add to the discussions. But, it takes me ages to write a reply/comment (inc. this one) much less a full-length analysis and many times, I end up not posting. 😓😓 Please keep sharing your thoughts here and any other thread. I'll read and upvote them when I get the time. 😊

3

@hikari_nmh
I decided to start a new comment to do this justice.

Thanks so much for contributing to our knowledge about Jun Ho and his cats. I'm not much into social media and would not have found out.

Regarding the "I Live Alone" episode with him as the guest, you can watch it on OnDemandKorea or Viu.

As I feared, I will not be able to get it in my region, but nevermind, maybe you can tell me a bit more about Jun Ho. I'm actually very curious about how he gets to live alone. Does he rent the place himself?

Did he only just start living alone for the show or did he have a place of his own from a long time before?

Most idols have to live with their group members. Do you know if Jun Ho does the same from time to time?

Please keep sharing your thoughts here and any other thread. I'll read and upvote them when I get the time.

That's so sweet of you!! If I post anything I think you'll like, I'll let you know. 😄

And you don't really need to write much or be eloquent. Your thoughts which you'd like to share are all that matter. Cheers! 😃

1
10
reply

Required fields are marked *

@hikari_nimh: Thank you so much for your reply and thoughts! And especially for the kitty information. I couldn't tell from the pics what breeds they were but could see they were on the expensive side. Imo, people who love cats are gentle people. btw, did you know this info from the "I Live Alone"?
After JBL I'm such a Jiho fan. He's the same age as my daughter (almost exactly) so I see him as a special person for that reason too. Plus I was really impressed with his acting, but JBL was also a special drama and the whole cast was terrific.
As you can tell I'm not that eloquent with words either. Please stop by and comment more often! I rather like commenting on this particular thread because it isn't too busy.
I'm re watching JBL right now with the three of you in mind!

1
8
reply

Required fields are marked *

@Linda Palapala
Happy re-watching! Will you be sharing your thoughts here or on the JBL thread? (JB did mention somewhere that it's preferable to comment in the thread under the related topic). In any case, I drop by often and will look out for you! 😁

1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala,

"I'm re watching JBL right now with the three of you in mind!"

I'm not quite ready to watch JUST BETWEEN LOVERS yet as I've just watched the first 4 episodes of RADIO ROMANCE, but I'm working up to it. ;-)

1
6
reply

Required fields are marked *

No worries! It's low key, slow paced and just slices of daily life and gradually pulls you in emotionally. It will still be there when you get around to it.
I haven't found anything on air that's grabbing me just yet. I tried Return (for Lee Jin wook) but after the emotional JBL it just seemed cold.
There are several I'm looking forward to, but mostly because I like the actors. Anything you're looking forward to?

1
5
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala,

I watched JBL ep. 1 this morning, and liked it a lot. It drew me right in. Am looking forward to seeing more.

Currently watching HWAYUGI and RADIO ROMANCE.

Last night I watched Lee Jun-ik's two sageuk comedies ONCE UPON A TIME IN A BATTLEFIELD and its sequel BATTLEFIELD HEROES. Also saw the quirky drama special ARIDONG LAST COWBOY. [Yang Taek-jo looks like a Korean Roy Rogers, and has a lovely voice as he sings along with a cowboy movie (SHANE?).]

As for upcoming shows, I've got my eyes peeled for Kam Woo-sung and Kim Sun-ah in SHOULD WE KISS FIRST premiering on Feb. 20, and I'm not alone. I anticipate that it will be dandy for those of us of a certain age, and fully expect to see realistic, swoon-worthy smooches. The fangirl comments on the latest news article are great:

http://www.dramabeans.com/2018/02/ocean-strolls-for-romance-melodrama-should-we-kiss-first/

Also waiting with bated breath for:

* Shin Dong-wook's upcoming cop show, LIVE, on tvN in March following HWAYUGI. I'm thrilled to see him back on TV.

* GRAND PRINCE with Yoon Si-yoon. I'm jonesing for a good sageuk since THE KING LOVES, and enjoyed his performance in MIRROR OF THE WITCH. Here's hoping this one is a good drama. It does sound as if it's got more than a jot of SEVEN DAY QUEEN fraternal rivalry.

0

Gee, I remember watching Shane many times. Those were the days.
I'm looking forward to Queen of Mystery, 2nd Season, Children of a Lesser God (Kang Ji hwan), Let's Watch the Sunset (Yoon Sang Hwan), Det K (Lee Min ki), and the one you mentioned Shall We Kiss First. I don't know Shin Dong Wook but you've got me curious. As you can see, I choose dramas based on whether or not I like the male lead - shallow? I do keep expanding my list of favorite actors though.

1

@linda-palapala February 10, 2018 at 7:54 PM

I don't know Shin Dong Wook but you've got me curious. As you can see, I choose dramas based on whether or not I like the male lead - shallow? I do keep expanding my list of favorite actors though.

Not shallow, as I'm the same way, and have my fave female actors, too. ;-)

Let me introduce you to Shin Dong-wook. Do yourself a favor and watch SOUL MATE. It's been recapped here on DB. SDW plays a music director, and the use of music in the show is top-notch. IMHO, it's even better than in COFFEE PRINCE, and that's saying something. Alas, the voluminous lists of background music are now missing in action since the website migration.

I've seen SDW in a few other shows: CLOUD STAIRCASE; PICK UP THE STARS aka STARS FALLING FROM THE SKY; and most recently as Prosecutor Jang Do-han's step-brother, Father Lee Kwan-woo, in LOOKOUT. I haven't seen him in WAR OF MONEY, but after my recent forays into revenge dramas MAWANG and MONEY FLOWER, I'll give it a go sometime.

His acting career was on hold for about 5 years when he developed Complex Regional Pain Syndrome while serving in the armed forces. LOOKOUT was his long-awaited return to drama.

He appeared on talk show AS I SAY, episode 10, on 11/30/2016. If I weren't already a fan, I would have become one on the spot. The other guests are a hilarious criminal psychologist, Ms. Lee Soo-jung, and idol Ms. Kim Se-jeong, now of Gugudan. FWIW, SDW is a published sci-fi writer. I thought you'd like that. ;-)

After the indoor introductions with hosts You Hee-yeol and Ha Ha, the guests “busk with words” and give a talk outdoors before a live audience. It is really touching. The whole show is excellent, and after watching MAWANG, I think you'll appreciate what the criminal psychologist has to say. She's terrific. Se-jong spoke of her experience as a “gloomy child,” which I think is germane to RADIO ROMANCE, and maybe also BECAUSE THIS LIFE IS OUR FIRST.

SDW dealt with his illness by purposely isolating because consolation was so counterproductive for him. That reminds me of something that Dr. Edward Bach, discoverer of the Bach flower essences, wrote about being perilously ill. Although unconscious, he could sense the concern of friends and loved ones as a heavy weight. It prompted him to develop “Rescue Remedy.”

http://www.ondemandkorea.com/as-i-say-e10.html

- continued -

0

@linda-palapala February 10, 2018 at 7:54 PM

- continued -

SDW also appeared as Vacuum Cleaner in the third pairing of round 1 of KING OF MASK SINGER, ep. 111. He squared off in a duet against Janus Vocal! God of the Bath [Go Jae-geun of Y2K] on Lee Seung-gi's “Will You Marry Me?” (결혼해 줄래). His second song was “When You Are...”
(너 그럴때면...) by EVE when he revealed his identity. There are also hilarious clips of them dancing, Vacuum rapping, and God of Bath doing a convincing imitation of a rooster.

King of masked singer 복면가왕 20170514
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtqYizcPqxZTs-B5WuloymUqRG7UsQ9-0

Alas, these MBC clips don't have subtitles. I watched the entire episode raw and with subs at the time it aired on KshowOnline.com.

It was great to see SDW performing, and to see how thrilled the audience and panelists were for him to be on stage again. He'd been recovering from Complex Regional Pain Syndrome for 5-6 years at that point, and told viewers not to worry about him as a patient because he is doing well. And that his being able to return to acting could give hope to other folks. He is truly a class act. Just as handsome and soft-spoken as ever. God, he has beautiful eyes. He put in a plug for LOOKOUT aka CHASER -- which is confusing as there was a film by the latter name.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to Shin Dong-wook's next drama outing, LIVE. It sounds as if it will be more active than his role in LOOKOUT. He was offered a lead role in the current season of RUDE MISS YOUNG-AE, but apparently turned it down. Perhaps he's pacing himself and getting back into the traces gradually.

1

@pakalanapikake

What are your sources to watch? I mostly use DF and Viki (Roku) and rarely gooddrama (but I hate sitting at the computer).

0

@hikari_nimh,

Many thanks for your info on Junho's adorable feline overlords. DB is as close as I get to using social media. Once in a blue moon I follow an IG or Twitter link, but that's about it, so thanks for the pointer to the show.

FYI, here in the US, I found some short clips of that I LIVE ALONE episode with English subtitles on YouTube. The cats are very pretty. So one of them really is a Bengal. (One of my friends was interested in the breed.) My late "nephew" Furball was a Maine Coon -- he was one wild and crazy boy.

Thanks for your kind words. And thanks for joining our conversation. That's one of the main reasons I hang out at DramaBeans. While discussing Kdramas, I've gotten to meet so many lovely folks from around the world. Please keep posting. Come on in, the water's fine. ;-)

1
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala, Tom, @growingbeautifully,

Just touching base. I finished JUST BETWEEN LOVERS, and really enjoyed it. I was impressed with the whole cast, not just the leads, who were terrific. I also got a kick out of seeing Oh Yong (spiteful wangtta Soon-ki in MAWANG) as the construction site security manager.

Just finished watching FOREVER THE MOMENT, an uplifting film about the Korean women's handball team and their personal challenges in getting to the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens. Uhm Tae-woong plays the head coach who is a bigger jerk than his character in MAWANG. It's on Netflix.

DB has an old news item on FERMENTATION FAMILY, which was made by the folks who did MAWANG and RESURRECTION. By any chance have you seen it? Song Il-kook and Park Jin-hee are the leads.

1
17
reply

Required fields are marked *

@pakalanapikake: So are you going to watch Fermentation Family?
Fermentation Family: One of my all time favorites! Have watched it so many times. Love when they sing. It's so family oriented and a journey. Love the cast, the stories (with one exception), I was so surprised it was by the same team as Mawang, as both of these were my favorites before realizing that. Just a beautiful drama. Have I said enough?
JBL: It's rare I like every single member of the cast and really like the side characters and their stories. Hope you were okay with the last episode. I thought it was a nice epilogue.
As long as I'm here: So far I've watched 3 Chinese historical dramas, one a fantasy and it took me awhile to figure out what exactly was so different from kdramas. Kdramas, I am totally emotionally involved. I laugh, I cry, I feel all the joy and pain the characters go through. While I'm enjoying the Chinese dramas I feel no emotion whatsoever. But I've only watched three, so maybe it's just these particular ones, but I don't think so. One of my Chinese parents can hardly wait for me to watch Nirvana in Fire so we can discuss it...
JBL: I don't like commenting on the post because it was such a personal drama for me, I don't want to hear what a bunch of people say!

1
6
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala,

FERMENTATION FAMILY has moved up on my to-watch list, now that I've seen MAWANG. I'd enjoyed Park Jin-hee's performance in GU AM HEO JOON, and Song Il-kook's in KINGDOM OF THE WINDS, so it caught my eye, despite the weird title. Thanks for your enthusiastic recommendation. I was hoping that it was another good show from the MAWANG team.

Re: JUST BETWEEN LOVERS, I was fine with the ending. There had been enough hints that chronic use of painkillers could cause problems for Gang-doo that it came as no big surprise when he ended up with liver failure. (What's more hair-raising is the fact that common OTC painkillers such as acetaminophen do the same thing. N-acetylcysteine [NAC] has been used since 1974 to treat acetaminophen-induced hepatotoxicity.)

Now I understand where your question about the yellow lighting was coming from. Those scenes in Grandma's clinic with the golden light pouring in through the windows at night were really something. The light looks like it's from low-pressure sodium lamps, which have been in use since 1920. (Nowadays, high-pressure sodium lamps are used for street lighting; they emit a much whiter light.) There was one scene in particular when Gang-doo appeared jaundiced because of the lighting, which I considered to be foreshadowing. It was very subtle.

I was fine with the entire set of characters, too. In fact, I was surprised to discover that Jung Yoo-taek was as much a victim of the family business as his unwitting step-brother. Who would have guessed the guy was an ornithologist until he got dragged into the construction industry?

NIRVANA IN FIRE has been on my watch list since it was discussed at length in Open Thread as it aired.

I've only watched a few wuxia so far. The drama BICHEONMU (SBS, 2008) was a joint Korean-Chinese production, and maybe because of the Korean contribution, it was emotionally engaging. It helped that Joo Jin-Mo was one of the leads in the international cast.

A couple of years ago I watched the wuxia A BATTLE OF WITS (2006), mainly because Siwon was in it. The film is fascinating because it deals with the pacifist Mohists, who were renowned siege engineers. Mohism, along with Confucianism (its major rival), Taoism, and Legalism, developed more or less contemporaneously. It has since been subsumed into Taoism and Legalism, so no longer exists on its own.

I've rewatched A BATTLE OF WITS after learning that famed martial artist and actor Yu Cheng-Hui was in the film. He had starred in a number of wuxia, including Jet Li's debut film (SHAOLIN TEMPLE, 1981), which I also watched. Daebak! Here's info on his acting and choreographic work:

http://www.shaolinchamber36.com/buddhist-blog/kung-fu-legend-yu-cheng-hui-has-passed/

Maybe you'll find some Chinese classics to watch. I never was into kung fu movies. Watching a lot of sageuks has prompted me to check out wuxia. ;-)

1
5
reply

Required fields are marked *

Nice to chat again! Fermentation (Kimchi Family) is totally different from Mawang, quite low key and slow paced (similar to JBL) but heartwarming.
Everyone has rec'd Nirvana in Fire but I told my friend since I watched NIF2 first, I'll probably like it better. I just finished Lost Love in Times, my first fantasy because magic has always bugged me, but it was a fun watch. The fight scenes are straight out copying video game fight scenes. I loved William Chan and am looking forward to Viki's Only Side by Side With You in March. The last few episodes of LLIT were sort of all over the place though. Even fantasy magic should have rules to follow and set ups/payoffs, but it was totally random towards the end.
Now I feel like rewatching a favorite so next two are Bad Guy and finally finishing NIF. Did you know the story of Bad Guy? Kim Nam gil, again one of my favorite actors, was called to military duty during filming and they wouldn't let him postpone enlistment to finish the drama. So it was 3 episodes short, they had to use stand ins and other tricks to finish, but it totally ruined what could have been a totally great drama. I still can't watch the last two episodes but I loved it up until then.

1
2
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala,

Thanks for the background on FERMENTATION FAMILY. It sounds much more appealing now that I know you've enjoyed it. Certainly after seeing MAWANG, I'll give it a go.

Now that I think of it, I used to do lacto-fermentation myself. I used to make kefir, cultured buttermilk, and yogurt, among other dairy products. The tasty, nutritious beet kvass (fermented beet juice) made with the whey from my crème fraîche would have been an excellent beverage and digestive aid for Gang-doo in JUST BETWEEN LOVERS.

Lacto-fermentation is the technical term for preserving food through the use of lactobacillus that originate in the soil (and enter cows via grass). Bovine digestion is actually a kind of fermentation, now that I think about it. Lactobacilli produce lactic acid (and a miniscule amount of ethanol) when done correctly. Lactic acid preserves food by creating an environment that inhibits putrefaction. It also breaks down enzyme inhibitors (e.g., which make seeds and nuts difficult to digest) and compounds that block the uptake of iodine (“goitrogens” that inhibit thyroid function). Goitrogens naturally occur in members of the cabbage and mustard families -- the traditional ingredients of kimchi and sauerkraut.

Lacto-fermentation boosts the availability of nutrients as well as naturally-occurring gut flora. You could think of it as a form of pre-digestion that increases nutrient availabilty rather than decreasing it as cooking can. It can be done at a wide range of temperatures, depending on the specific microbes. All it takes is food to be inoculated (fish, meat, eggs, fruit, vegetables, milk), salt to slow unwanted microbes until the "good guys" generate enough lactic acid to achieve the proper acidity – and time.

Nowadays pickling is done quickly and cheaply with vinegar (acetic acid), but it does not convey the same digestive benefits that lacto-fermentation does. The process takes time, and time is money. Traditional lacto-fermented foods are a big part of the “Slow Food” movement that has arisen as an alternative to fast food. Poi and preserved breadfruit are among the traditionally lacto-fermented foods of Hawai'i and the Pacific Islands.

Haha! I've convinced myself to watch FERMENTATION FAMILY. Thanks for your comments on it. I enjoyed MAWANG, and am glad to know that the team behind it did another great show.

Re: NIRVANA IN FIRE 2, I still have yet to see the first. I may have watched one episode of NIF just to see what all the hollering was about. It looked good. I just have so many sageuks I want to watch that I don't know when I'll get to it.

As for fantasy and magic, I need a well-designed and implemented dramaverse in which characters act consistently. Otherwise I cannot suspend my disbelief. That careful, detailed world-building is one of the things I've loved to bits about ARANG AND THE MAGISTRATE.

Kim Nam-gil is one of my faves, too. I hadn't heard about the fiasco with BAD GUY. Auwe!

0

@pakalanapikake @growingbeautifully: Yes, and there's lots of fermentation besides kimchi. And I love the scenes where they're all sitting around the table eating, drinking and singing folk tunes.
Fantasy: I need someone to explain the ending of Lost Love in Times because it's nonsensical to me right now. She is a mage and falls in love with Prince Ling (who doesn't talk much but just looks pretty and I love his eyes). She has the ability to reset the universe and does so when he's about to be killed. So, when she resets the universe he doesn't recognize her but they are still fated to fall in love over the course of the next dozen episodes. Fine. But then we find out she only lasts a finite time in this reset and then fades away. There's a happy ending because when she fades away he has a lock of her hair and is able to find her once she's gone back to her own timeline. Fine. However, what universe and time are they in ultimately? Is it the reset timeline universe, the original timeline universe, or is it the Garden of Eden-like "Meandering Skies" (because the end scene the landscape is Meandering Skies) that they end up in? A moot point, I suppose, since it's a happily-ever-after ending, but still...I'd like to know.

1

Just watched (re) Fermentation Family ep 1 again and remembered what Song il Gook said about filming - he gained a lot of weight filming this drama!

1
1
reply

Required fields are marked *

Ha! Considering how much weight Song Il-kook lost for his previous role in A MAN CALLED GOD, I'm not surprised that he packed it back on during a food-based drama. He would have had to have eaten a couple of tons of kimchi, though. LOL. ;-)

0

@PakalanaPikake @Tom @linda-palapala

Pakalana Pikake, glad to know you've had a good experience with JBL.

I left a note somewhere for you that the Recap and Review for Ep 15 is out by @peeps, in case you're interested.

Yes, the yellow lighting, gave many scenes a 'sickish' hue or a sense of something a bit off. Foreshadowing and setting of tone.

I felt that the writing was sufficiently consistent and kept to the themes without losing track. It kept to the themes so closely in fact that the secondary characters, who were made rounded and interesting were not given a chance to do much, however they served the story and the arc of restitution and integrity very well.

I'm still re-watching and make a note of the OSTs of the show and squeezing out more goodness from this lovely production. Cheers!

2
9
reply

Required fields are marked *

@growingbeautifully,

Thanks so much for the pointer to @peeps's recaps. I have truly enjoyed this show, and expect to rewatch it relatively soon. I haven't gotten through the comments yet, but will pick away at them. I cannot think of anything specific off the top of my head, but I know there were fine points I missed in the recaps that need clarification. I found the Viki subs to be much better than some of the others I saw.

I haven't even gotten to the OSTs yet. I really liked the music. Lovely.

1
reply

Required fields are marked *

I didn't read too many comments. This was the first drama I didn't want to parse and analyze it to death. And, the first drama I so enjoyed the secondary characters and their wisdom and emotions that I didn't ff thru their scenes. The score and the OSTs, just wow, so special. Very understated mostly but so in tune with the emotional moments.

3
7
reply

Required fields are marked *

@pakalanapikake: I saw on my notifications that you "mentioned" me but it disappeared and now I don't know what thread it was on. Apparently not this one. Can you repost? I'm a happy camper today, I've been looking for William Chan's "The Mystic Nine" to watch and voila! it's going to be on DF soon. Yay! I'm re watching Lost Love in Times and now my questions are answered - I had missed one sentence on the first watch that explained everything.

1
6
reply

Required fields are marked *

@linda-palapala,

I just looked through my comments, and the only post that mentioned you on 2/20 that you didn't respond to is this one:

http://www.dramabeans.com/2018/02/blockbuster-spy-action-drama-prometheus-courts-joo-ji-hoon-ha-ji-won/#comment-3197399

I hope that helps. Let me know if it was an earlier post. ;-)

I'm re watching Lost Love in Times and now my questions are answered - I had missed one sentence on the first watch that explained everything.

Isn't it amazing how missing a single sentence can make such a difference? That's why I never, ever fast-forward.

I had a similar experience last week with HWAYUGI. I watched the first episode raw and read the recap, but forgot to watch it with subtitles, then watched the second episode both raw and subbed. A gap in logic bugged the heck out of me until I realized I hadn't seen the subtitles -- which made all the difference.

1

@pakalanapikake
I stumbled upon it after I asked you to repost.
Lost Love in Times: to be honest I only watched the first 10 eps or so and then skipped to the last couple of episodes (to make sure it had a happy ending..) but now I'm re watching the whole thing and absolutely loving it. I know it sounds like I say that about every drama but no, I only finish watching ones I love.
I'll say it again - I love Lost Love in Times! Now I'm looking for all William Chan dramas. A couple of them have terrible reviews but I'll watch them anyway!

1

@linda-palapala
February 21, 2018 at 8:58 AM

I'm glad you've found another fantasy drama person whose work you enjoy. I've only watched a few Chinese and Japanese productions, and one Thai one. I don't want to get too distracted from Kdrama. And I don't want to go down the wuxia rabbit hole. Although I do want to check out more of the Shaolin flicks. I aspire to watch NIF one of these days, too. ;-)

1

@pakalanapikake
What is the wuxia rabbit hole??
I've watched most of the older kdramas that I've wanted to and now just re watch my favorites that are worth re watching to me. I'm really picky about which new ones I follow too. I'm curious about Shall We Kiss but don't want to start it just yet, since I feel guilty that I haven't really gotten into NIF and my Chinese mom is really looking forward to me watching it so we can discuss it.
My first adventure with Japanese was in the late 70s or early 80s (?) with Chiba Shinichi's (Sonny Chiba) Kage no gundan (Shadow Warriors) and the Yagyu Conspiracy. The DVD for the 1st season of Kage no Gundan (not the movie but the tv series) was actually available on Amazon for awhile and I own it now, though the special effects are laughable. Loved the music and the political shenanigans and the shadow warriors/ninja fighting, esp the sword fights. The only Yagyu dvds I've found are hecka expensive and there's so much to watch anyway. I used to have the whole series on tape but those degraded and are long gone.

0

@linda-palapala, February 21, 2018 at 10:00 AM

"What is the wuxia rabbit hole??"

I'm afraid that if I start watching Chinese historical martial arts dramas, like Alice going down the rabbit hole into Wonderland, I'll get diverted from Kdramas. I haven't been watching them as long as you have, so I've got a long list of sageuks as well as contemporary shows.

But every once in a while I enjoy the different "flavors" of the Chinese and Japanese shows. ;-)

Enjoy getting caught up with NIF. Hwaiting!

1

@pakalanapikake
I haven't been watching them as long as you have,
I don't know, I've only been watching about 3 years, but I bingewatch whenever possible. I could list the actors whose dramas I prefer, because once I find an actor I like I watch everything they do if I can find it, with only a few unwatchable exceptions. There are also a few actors/actresses I simply do not like for one reason or another and don't bother with their dramas because there are already too many dramas I want to watch or re watch. I think between Hulu, Netflix, DF, Viki and Asian Crush I have about 100 dramas/movies on my queue, some old, some new, some duplicates, and old favorites.

1