She blames her daughter for the death of her sun, and while we have watched, we have not seen her be even remotely nice to her daughter at any time.
She has even been accusing her of planning the downfall of the family together with Eun-sung.

the family scenes were on fire this week, weren't they? But this was my favourite of the emotional ones, nothing gets past Hyun-woo's mother, whether it's the leaf trail or the timing of Hyun-woo suddenly going changing his mind about wanting the divorce.

@pogo1 Indeed she's the smartest in the family. Hyun-woo takes after her. 😊

fair enough, I understand what you mean. I don't mind the siblings as comic relief/Hyun-woo's sounding boards, but I probably wouldn't enjoy it if the drama tried to give them a storyline too the way it has to Soo-cheol.

(is having idiot siblings something Hyun-woo and Hae-in have in common? Looks like it)

I deleted my comment because I watched the entire series from 1-12 in like, three days and I'm not sure whether the detail I shared was from after episode 10.

But a child's right to be loved, "stray" or not, is a theme. Though it ought not to make you shoot a dog either way.

You've really described each nuance of Hae-in's speech so wonderfully I feel like I'm watching the scene again. 👌👏

I think she planned it after his (planned) drunk-when-cute "talking to himself" the night before.

My fantasy is that there’s a drama blog in SK that has a list of all the creative English names created by Unit and Beanies: “look at what they’re calling him on this US blog, so funny!” 😆

I'll comment on a previously deleted comment.
I apologize to those who were offended in my calling Eun-seong Ugly. I gave my opinion about the personality traits of the character in question, as I thought we all were. It never dawned on me that it could be viewed as an attack on the actor himself.

He told her he would marry her, but as a proposal. Not like: Hello, you are lucky, you get to marry me, and I will not talk about our difference in status, because I am a super graceful person ( a la cousin Collins in Pride& Prejudice).
But his boasting scene was so cute!

@ceciliedk - oh no, I didn't mean he said it like Mr Collins!!! just that it's different from the second proposal after they were officially dating, when he went down on one knee with the ring. Proposal 1 is very "I can take care of you, please think about it?" with cuteness compounded by the umbrella (which she kept to this day!!)

We've seen them through different stages of their early relationship from proposal-pre-dating, to what they'd call a 'some' (the whole Young-sookie epilogue in ep 7), to undercover office romance, to officially dating and then marriage proposals 2 (from him) and 3 (from her) but I still have so many questions about HongBaek mk. 1 and so many scenes I'm dying to see, sure sign of a great show and a great lead couple <3

I would not call the first one a marriage proposal though. The first one is actually a proposal to date-with-the-intent-of-marriage. It's recognisable within conservative cultures in the West, as well as Korea. It's saying ' I want to get to know you and I'm not a player' .

The way he is pretty proud, and don't want to boast, and is like, avoiding eye contact to avoid imposing on her with his education and already-halfway-paid apartment and more-than-thirty-almost-35 cows. It's gold.

@mazarin - it's like a cross between a matseon and regular proposal lol. I mean, I do come from a country where they do those, and even there, out-of-the-blue proposing to a girl you aren't even dating yet, in the 21st century at that, would still be considered ....... highly unusual 🤣

@ceciliedk right??!! He was trying SO HARD not to freak her out with his cows and his leased apartment and his ₩2 million monthly savings and then asking her to think about it and not demanding an answer rightaway 🤣 (but it's honestly really sweet too because you know that unlike a certain someone, he'd have honoured it if her answer was a no)

Well said, I completely agree with this

It's the out-of-the-blue that makes it unusual. But we saw it as a partial story, and very early in the narrative, so we don't actually know how out-of the blue it was. It marked the point that HI started crushing on HW, but we don't know how much else had happened before then. (When does the cute-when-drunk episode happen? It looks like its after they started dating, but they must not have been public, because HW is sitting next to Other Girls)

@ceciliedk - it's clearly after the little verbal nudge she gave him in episode 1 to please think about why he doesn't like seeing her scolded and worries about her, so he clearly had something to go on there even if they weren't yet dating.

but I think Hae-in expected a 'I like you, please date me' - not a jump straight to 'it's ok if you quit your job and be a housewife I'll take care of you' lol. If I had to guess I'd say it was before the Young-sookie conversation in the episode 7 epilogue, based on both the weather/outfits (the latter is winter) and their diminishing levels of formality with each other.

I'm referring to the proposal btw - Hyun-woo's drunken superpower unlock is most certainly at a later stage, after the Young-sookie conversation but yeah, our kids were definitely dating on the quiet during that dinner.

"Drunken Superpower Unlock" 🤣😄😍

But when the absolute bottom of their relationship happened at the same time as her announcement that she was dying, then of course there was no good time to say it, ever. Even if it had been a more modern situation ("I like you, but this is not working out for us, I want us to look elsewhere for happiness") when she told him, how could he have said to her that now he wanted a divorce?
The horrible fact was all that joy he was hiding at the start. Even in pretty bad relationships I don't think it's normal to react like that. But of course ... he has felt he was actually in an abusive relationship, because the only real contact they had was at work, where she ruthlessly went for the trillion dollar club at the expense of existing good business relationships.
And as you remember, she even prioritized that trillion dollar club above anything she could do before her death.

@ceciliedk - here's the thing, this cold, heartless, borderline abusive monster he's worked himself up into believing she is in order to convince himself he wants to divorce her, is also something he's built up in his own head because he really can't keep it up when he finds out things like their baby's due date being her unlock code or her jumping in to try and help out his family, unbeknownst to him. Of course he didn't want to drop the divorce on her while she was still sick or getting treatment, but by the time it was exposed, he'd long since tossed the idea of divorcing her - he never would have told her if he hadn't been exposed.

She can be cold and ruthless in her business dealings (cheerfully resorting to blackmail to get her Hercyna deal), and since business has become their only real pretext for interaction by ep 1, it's how he sees her. It doesn't help that by the time they lost the baby, their mutually established behaviour patterns clashed in the worst possible way. I'd argue there's also a level of self-delusion going on with Hyun-woo - if he truly hated her so much that he was totally thrilled to be freed from the marriage via her death, his jealousy over Eun-snake potentially being a rival, doesn't make sense - like Yang-gi said, he should be celebrating but instead he's seething quietly over it even as he's still convinced that he wants her to die so he can be free. That delusion starts wavering once he finds her pass code, and it's clear by the end of episode 5 that it's gone altogether - I think we can agree that all thoughts of divorce were pretty definitively gone after Yongdu-ri, and certainly by the time he got on that plane to Germany. Which makes it even more of a tragic twist, in a way - he convinced himself he was faking but then it all turned out to be real, and that's when the bomb drops.

@pogo1
He did say that he hated her, that he despised her, that she doesn't care about him or how his family treats him, that she only cares about herself, that she is selfish and that he endured three years of this treatment from her and her family. It's all in episode 1 when he sees his psychologist ( at minute 37-38 ), played wonderfully by one of my favourite actor, his brother from IONTBO.
He wasn't jealous of Eun-stink from the beginning, at first he said something like he can have her at the party. His feelings for HI started to resurfaced after she kissed him in ep. 3 and found out the pass code, the day after he starts seeing her beautifull again and starts to get jealous. When she kissed him, she said that she will start doing things differently than up until that point and she asked herself why hasn't she been confident until then. She started changing because he changed, sadly for the wrong reasons (trying to make her change the will, getting close to her to not look in the phone to see the divorce message). You could say that his ill intent gave her the confidence to show that she wants him when she thought that he didn't anymore (because she was a monster to him) and that is what made him fall in love with her again (the kiss and the password are what he needed all along and the reasons he left the bedroom). I think that if she remained the same icy monster towards him he would not have fallen for her again, even if she was sick or not, and he would have divorced her if she would have beat the cancer.

@Kodra - the "he should have married her" monologue Hyun-woo gave himself in the bathroom at the party is directly contradicted by his reaction to emerging and - for the first time - actually seeing Eun-snake with Hae-in.

That's episode 2, with ever more indications sprinkled through it and episode 3 that Eun-sung's attentions to Hae-in bother him more than he lets on - trying to speak to her in the helicopter on the way to the ep 2 hunt only to find Eun-snake whispering into her ear instead (this is before the riflepoint confrontation in the woods which I think we can treat as the official start of ES giving him the creeps), physically putting himself between Hae-in and Eun-snake when Eun-snake tries to act all concerned about her near-death by wild boar to get close to her - after which Hyun-woo quite pointedly leads her away by the hand in front of him, Secretary Kim the Snake making a point of telling him all about Hae-in's dinner meeting with Eun-snake and how she'll be home late (Hyun-woo is obviously bothered by this), and finally, Hyun-woo side-eyeing Eun-snake for having the audacity to call her "우리" Hae-in in front of him when she comes home drunk from that dinner (definitely skirting a line on language there, as Eun-snake could be read to be implying she's 'his' Hae-in or 'our' Hae-in - and if Hyun-woo truly wanted him to take Hae-in off his hands before that kiss revived his feelings, it all simply doesn't add up because all of the above instances of fairly obvious jealousy at the idea of another man moving in on the wife he says he hates so much...... are pre-episode-3-kiss.

basically, he tells himself one thing - even convinces himself of it - only for his actions to point to the opposite.

@pogo1
Are you saying that she was great and it was all in his head? And mine? 🤣
He hated her because he loved her but whom he loved was not that person anymore. Once she changed a little those feelings reignited. But if she would not have changed towards him he would have still hated her. Why does she say that she will start doing things differently? Because she was different, just as HW said she was.
He didn't start getting jealous until after the kiss, he was just aware that Eun-stink was a bad guy until then. His hate was not making him wish to harm her or wanting her to be hurt, he was still concerned about her. That is why he couldn't tell her about the divorce. He wasn't happy that she was dying, he was relieved that it was a way to be released from the family that he was scared of without getting a divorce. His hate was because he was hurt, he felt deceived and abused by her.
He couldn't take his hands off because he started it all by coming close to her, if he wanted something he would have kissed her. He was just afraid he would be caught because of the phone.
He didn't feel jealousy when HI whispered something in Eul-stink, he felt hurt that she ignored him as usual.
Why did she say that she tricked him when she said that she would not make him cry? Let's not paint her all in white, he had plenty of reasons to hate her and to want the divorce. Maybe because of the disease that I suspect started long ago, she might have minor symptoms long before, but he would not have been aware of it and thought that she was like that. Which in turn made her more icy with him because she was not aware of what she did and lost confidence that he loved her anymore. Writer-nim didn't chose a brain cancer out of the blue, one that comes with changes in personality and mood, blackouts or even minor loss of memory.

@Kodra - not sure where you got that first line of your comment from, I'm just pointing out what's actually happening on the screen i.e. multiple instances of Hyun-woo being obviously bothered and jealous over Eun-snake's implied intimacy with the wife he says he hates and wished Eun-sung had married first (giving the lie to his words), and no, not just because he - correctly - thinks he's a wrong 'un, because he doesn't have any basis to think that until the 'trespassing on other people's territory' part at the hunting grounds and even before that we've seen him bothered by Eun-sung being physically close to Hae-in twice already. Once can be dismissed, twice and multiple times? Not so much.
And the entire pre-kiss scene of Eun-sung bringing a drunk Hae-in home and making a point to tell Hyun-woo that the two of them were drinking alone together, that he'd bring Hae-in inside, that he knew her hangover cure (implying more past intimacy), Hyun-woo keeps quiet through all of it but that "우리" is what causes him to snap and put Eun-snake in his place. I mean, you could keep believing Hyun-woo's just acting out of suspicion against Eun-snake at that point and doesn't revive feelings until Hae-in kisses him right after that, but I'd say between Kim Soo-hyun and the dialogue, the subtext is perfectly clear.

@pogo1

"basically, he tells himself one thing - even convinces himself of it - only for his actions to point to the opposite."

As I said, he hated the HI of the last three years but he still was in love with the one before the marriage. He obviously still cared for her, it's in his nature. He didn't see a way out, he did not just convinced himself, it was because how she was towards him. She started to change and that is why he didn't want to divorce again. He was still protective with her, that's who he is, when he saw that Eun-stink was lurking around HI but almost as he was with auntie, not because of jealousy up until the ep. 3 kiss. Just remember that he didn't want to even go in the room or cuddle with her at the hunting trip. If he would have been really jealous he would have made a move then. Compare that with when he is actually jealous in ep. 10 when not only he tells her but activates his superpower on her when talking to her didn't get him anywhere.

@pogo1 I wanted to reply to a comment you made below but the thread length doesn't allow it. Your comment was spot on! The reality of how they were treating one another and Hyun Woo's misunderstanding of Hae In's feelings, until he discovered her phone code. That started him thinking and looking at her behavior from a different perspective, and bit by bit he came to realize that he still loves her. There were so many hints in his own behavior that he hadn't picked up on. Divorce was no longer something he wanted but unfortunately he hadn't shredded that document.

@Kodra - "almost as he was with auntie" - we're going to have to agree to disagree about that one lol, I really doubt he'd act that way around Beom-ja.

The argument that Hae-in drunkenly kissing Hyun-woo at the end of episode 3 was what revived his actual feelings of jealousy, doesn't really make sense to me - he's not really into that kiss, is more distracted by her phone but lets it happen because he gave her the impression he was open to it by pushing her up against that tree while trying to stop her looking at her texts.

He's jealous, sure, but emotionally not ready to admit - even to himself - that that's what it is, or to follow up on what it means (i.e. he still feels attraction/desire for her, and for present-day Hae-in at that - he hasn't yet discovered the pass code). Similar thing in episode 5 in his bedroom, only by that time he's gained enough self-awareness to realise that he does want her but he's not ready to act on it so runs away.

But yes, I think there were flaws in the marriage even before the baby loss - like the small point of Hae-in never visiting her in-laws after the wedding, and Hyun-woo never going to Yongdu-ri with her in the first year of their marriage despite having no problems bringing her home when they were dating. I'd initially assumed this was on Hae-in being a snob about his family, but as episode 4 shows, she's not that way at all even in her present 'ice queen' era based on her interactions with Hyun-woo's siblings and parents. I'd wager that it had something to do with Hae-in's mother being a snob and somehow giving Hyun-woo the impression he shouldn't take her to visit the in-laws despite her already having made her way there twice, but I'd say the main problem of their marriage is not only a lack of communication, it's in accepted assumptions.

What I meant about being like he is with auntie was only towards Eun-stink up until that kiss and finding the password, meaning it was not jealousy but concern for her wellbeing. Yes, he was more worried about finding and deleting his sister's message but I don't think that only finding the password without her actually making a move on him right before would have changed anything. I think that both incidents helped and if only one of them had happened it would not have had the same impact on him to make him see her in a beautiful aura the next morning. And just think about it, jealousy means you want to be with that person but, like you said, he was still more interested in the phone (remember, at that time he was still faking it to get the will changed and her finding the divorce would have ruined it all) and had no interest of kissing her. He was starting to be annoyed by this guy, of course, because he sensed that he was more than what he was pretending to be and somewhat was concerned that she was drinking and with her disease it was not a good idea. At least that's my take on it, we don't have to agree with everything. Part of being here and discussing our ideas is to also find out if our ideas hold water and how we will find out if nobody would challenge them. At least that is how I am, it is more fun and makes the time goes faster until the next episodes. I have enjoyed our "confrontations", you are a great debater and you made me change some of my takes on this drama.
Silly question though...what's corn salad?

@Kodra - I get what you mean, but even if we confine all considerations of whether he was jealous or not to pre-episode 3 kiss/passcode discovery alone, Hyun-woo still looks put out - not concerned or worried for her, but discomfited - by seeing Eun-slime talk to Hae-in, once at a party with dozens of people around and the second time in the helicopter when he was right there (and as he himself tries - with no apparent faking - to talk to her himself). Eun-snake's trespassing on their hunt course+attempted dog killing was what triggered Hyun-woo's actual suspicions that Eun-snake is not what he seems to be, but imo there's definitely jealousy at play on his part well before the hunting incident and his first suspicions of Eun-snake, even if it's subconscious or he's in denial.

re: Corn Salad - remember a certain Mr Vincenzo? He's the Corn Salad in question. I would recommend watching his drama to find out how since I wouldn't want to spoil your fun, but if you're in a hurry, the answer is here: https://www.dramabeans.com/2021/03/vincenzo-episode-11/

@kodra - I had a whole reply typed out, but it seems to have vanished so I'll just stick to the operative part:

Corn Salad = a certain Vincenzo (if you want to find out why he's corn salad, I highly recommend watching the eponymous show as I don't want to spoil your fun).
Alternately, if you are in a hurry, read the recap of episode 11 of Vincenzo right here on db - I'd linked it, but apparently the spam filter ate it.

But the "Cold, Heartless MOnster" is what other people see, too, so it's not like he has to invent the whole thing in his own head.
But still, it is based on that one thing; the aftermath of a tragic miscarriage. (If it was within the first three months, and if there was no dramatic illness rendering her unable to try again, they were wildly overreacting; I've heard it's like three out of five pregnancies that do not go on to beyond that mark. So don't count your chickens, as they say, strangely appropriate).
Hrm hm, anyway, when she had all the stuff removed, and didn't even talk to him about how it affected her other than in a "it annoys me" kind of way, that broke it.
Because yes, she has the coldest eyes, and yes, when she is loving towards her brother she instills self worth in him by hitting him for not valuing himself enough, ... but she was like that when he fell for her. He was seeing that she would have a hard time being liked by other people, and decided to be the one to protect her, if she would let him.
I can imagine she has become like that to protect herself against the ice cold hatred from her mother. I don't even know how the mother would suddenly see that herself now, having treated her so bad for so long.
I mean, I know of parents who have treated their kids differently,
(Small ep. 12 flashback SPoiler:)
but avoiding the hand hold out to touch them ... that is extreme.

Exactly! I just wrote something to the same effect before I read your comment.
You can't go to someone who is dying ... fast! ... and then demand a divorce.
You would have a talk about what they wanted you to be for them the next few months, and if it seemed they would actually rather be without you, then you could ask if what *they* really wanted was a divorce. Otherwise, you are their support person for the rest of their short life, or until the alarm is called off.
But actually, when you think about breaking up with someone, it is normal to have a last rush of sentimental longing and affection for all the good things. Sometimes that postpones breaking up and sometimes, the relationship gets better in that time. In your partner was dying, it would be quite natural to be induced with a great tolerance of their flaws and fondness for their good sides. Since all of it would be over soon.

I wouldn't say he's to blame by any means. Hae-in refusing to talk about moving things out of the nursery was a major problem. That being said, Hyun-woo pretty much just gave up trying to reach out to her or talk to her right away, a very ineffective response that made things even worse. I would argue that his moving out of their bedroom was pretty much like a separation or breakup in itself.

@vienibenmio
But he did right away and asked her about the nursery. She said that it gets on her nerves and that they don't needed anymore. She turned away and continued her phone conversation. She obviously saw him upset and she didn't care when he left pissed off. At least he showed that he was upset and wanted to talk but she showed nothing, like she didn't care. Like she didn't care if he moved out, like he was getting on her nerves too. As I said, just saying that "we don't needed anymore" without explaining why means that she did wanted that separation from him also. She could have gone to talk to him after seeing him upset by her actions and her words.
So he did try to talk to her but she never did and never showed him that she was grieving also. She was cold as ice, concerned more about her bussiness and the whole baby thing was getting on her nerves. If you don't show that you are even grieving and you say that you don't needed anymore without explaining yourself, you see that he moves out because of how you acted and what you said and still are not doing anything to explain yourself, what are you actually saying? Did she say that they will not have babies at all? Did she say for awhile? Did she say why? Did she say anything else? She just turned away and talked on the phone. She pushed him away and by not going to talk to him means that she wanted him out of that bedroom. I am not talking here about why she did it, about her past and her ways of dealing with grief. We all know it and somewhat understand her. I am talking strictly about that he was not at fault for removing himself from the bedroom because he really tried to talk to her.

Exactly. I was just pointing out that even when she didn't do anything, she was frightening with that icy cold look.
For us viewers, it is fun to watch, but I would feel very unhappy if say, my hubby looked at me like that all the time.
Also, she never lets him see that she becomes happy when he says nice things to her. It's like in "Girl" with The Beatles
"When you say she's looking good
She acts as if it's understood
She's coo-ool! Oo-ooh! oo-ooh! oO-ooh!"
Then again, he should be prepared for that, because she did like that already when they met.
And he does like it, at least under some circumstances, or he wouldn't do that little "How Feisty!" when his secretary relays her long message about all the extra work he "ought to" have done.

@ceciliedk - that's the thing, she does show she's happy when she thinks he's done something nice for her - like her finding his open tabs on terminal illness survival rates and thinking he did it for her sake (and telling him so!), or drunk-kissing him after she thinks him pushing her against the tree in ep 3 was an invitation to do that, or all but issuing an open invitation to stay when she catches him in her bedroom while he's trying to erase his sister's texts from her phone.

There's no doubt she was icy, but it takes only a very little warmth - or even the impression of warmth from him - to make her start thawing. The problem is that neither of them wanted to be the first one to show 'weakness' for so long, but the choice has been taken out of their hands by her diagnosis.

As I recall, she doesn't show him that she is happy about his internet searches? I am not quite sure, but I think she only shows it to us, at least for some time.
Also, I giffed an example on my wall of what I mean: https://www.dramabeans.com/activity/p/1563840/
Just to make sure: I am at no point saying everything was her fault, or everything was his fault.
Probably, in another relationship he would be the one who would be more able to make it work for a long time; he is more "normal". But the girl he fell in love with was the one he already predicted would get fired again and again for being so unsociable. So that's what they need to make work.
Oh, my heart hurts when I think how logic it will be if she dies in the end. I really, really hope she survives. With her mind intact. It's drama-land. Give us miracles.

Maybe they will skip Switzerland this year and meet in Germany while Haein gets her treatment.

I'm hopeful that Jeong-hyeok has since defected to SK. Like his parents died or something. Which isn't great, true, but I want him out of NK!

There was literally no reason not to put his name. I mean those who know will appreciate the reference. Those who are interested will be motivated to find out more about him. Those who don't care would still understand that it's a famous singer. Win-win. Unless there is some restriction in mentioning the name but then they didn't bleep it out so I don't understand the problem other than intentionally not making a specific reference. 🙁